Digital BW, The Print

On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 08:56:58 -0600, you wrote:

>>What surprised me was that F-Gloss warm tone had less of an issue with dry
>time then the
>>whiter F-Gloss. Silver Rag had the least scratching, if any, but I
>increased the dry time for >these papers to 1 sec. to be safe. At 1 sec I
>still had marks on the standard F-Gloss. It does
>>print beautifully on the 3800 though.
>
>This is hardly reassuring.
>
>Are increased dry times necessary or not?
>
>Adding even one second dry time per pass when printing a large print -- even
>a small one -- sounds like a VERY undesirable situation.
>
>I cannot believe that Epson would offer this late generation printer that
>has this old time problem...
>
>Dave.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
atodzia@...
  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 7:17 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: roller marks with 3800 (was: Re: Epson 3800
for digital negative


  On my 3800 using regular F-Gloss increased dry time is mandatory. It
  seems this is the trade off with vacuum hold down printers (4800,
  7800, 9800) and non-vacuum printers like the 3800 with particular
  papers. Since Epson is mostly interested in selling their papers it
  is not an issue to them.

  On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 08:56:58 -0600, you wrote:

  >>What surprised me was that F-Gloss warm tone had less of an issue with
dry
  >time then the
  >>whiter F-Gloss. Silver Rag had the least scratching, if any, but I
  >increased the dry time for >these papers to 1 sec. to be safe. At 1 sec I
  >still had marks on the standard F-Gloss. It does
  >>print beautifully on the 3800 though.
  >
  >This is hardly reassuring.
  >
  >Are increased dry times necessary or not?
  >
  >Adding even one second dry time per pass when printing a large print --
even
  >a small one -- sounds like a VERY undesirable situation.
  >
  >I cannot believe that Epson would offer this late generation printer that
  >has this old time problem...
  >
  >Dave.



  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:47:15 -0800, you wrote:

>Hello,
>After reading the two following posts I was still confused if there are
>roller marks or not. In the first post it says" It does print beautifully on
>the 3800 though" Does this mean the prints look great except that they have
>scratches? and on the later post does it mean that with Epson papers there
>are no dryer marks bit with other papers there are marks even with increased
>dry time? I am  intending to buy this printer any day now and do not want to
>buy one that is not working up to expectations.
>Gary W.
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
>atodzia@...
>  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 7:17 AM
>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: roller marks with 3800 (was: Re: Epson 3800
>for digital negative
>
>
>  On my 3800 using regular F-Gloss increased dry time is mandatory. It
>  seems this is the trade off with vacuum hold down printers (4800,
>  7800, 9800) and non-vacuum printers like the 3800 with particular
>  papers. Since Epson is mostly interested in selling their papers it
>  is not an issue to them.
>
>  On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 08:56:58 -0600, you wrote:
>
>  >>What surprised me was that F-Gloss warm tone had less of an issue with
>dry
>  >time then the
>  >>whiter F-Gloss. Silver Rag had the least scratching, if any, but I
>  >increased the dry time for >these papers to 1 sec. to be safe. At 1 sec I
>  >still had marks on the standard F-Gloss. It does
>  >>print beautifully on the 3800 though.
>  >
>  >This is hardly reassuring.
>  >
>  >Are increased dry times necessary or not?
>  >
>  >Adding even one second dry time per pass when printing a large print --
>even
>  >a small one -- sounds like a VERY undesirable situation.
>  >
>  >I cannot believe that Epson would offer this late generation printer that
>  >has this old time problem...
>  >
>  >Dave.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
atodzia@...
  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:14 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: roller marks with 3800 (was: Re: Epson 3800
for digital negative


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  .When I said the prints are beautiful, it means 100% perfect, no
  scratches. On the papers discussed, especially F-Gloss, this can be
  achieved by doing a quick custom paper setup and increasing the dry
  time to a value where there are no scratch marks. At the moment I am


  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 08:47:13 -0800, you wrote:

>Andy,
>Are you using papers other than Epson and are they also working good? Are
>you able to compare the output of the 3800 with other larger Epson printers.
>I am planning on making 16x20s and am really excited that this new printer
>can do this size for less cost but I don't want to buy it and then think I
>should have bought the 4800 just trying to save a few dollars.
>Thanks,
>Gary W.
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
>atodzia@...
>  Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:14 AM
>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: roller marks with 3800 (was: Re: Epson 3800
>for digital negative
>
>
>  Recent Activity
>    a..  34New Members
>  Visit Your Group
>  SPONSORED LINKS
>    a.. Fine art photography
>    b.. Digital photography
>    c.. Digital photography print
>    d.. Digital photography technique
>    e.. Fine art photography print
>  Yahoo! News
>  Odd News
>
>  You won't believe
>
>  it, but it's true
>
>  Yahoo! TV
>  The Apprentice
>
>  Watch a new season
>
>  in Los Angeles
>
>  Sitebuilder
>  Over 380 Templates
>
>  Build and custo-
>
>  mize your web site
>  .When I said the prints are beautiful, it means 100% perfect, no
>  scratches. On the papers discussed, especially F-Gloss, this can be
>  achieved by doing a quick custom paper setup and increasing the dry
>  time to a value where there are no scratch marks. At the moment I am
>
>
>  
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David
Keenan
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 4:38 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: roller marks with 3800 (was: Re: Epson 3800 for
digital negative

>FYI. I did notice that when the dry time is 1 sec you don't even
>notice any pause, probably because it factors in the time from when it
>lays down the ink, not from when it finishes the line pass.

But hang on a sec. What does a one second dry time do to the overall time it
takes to have a finished print??? I don't give a rat's ass about perceivable
pauses, it is the overall print time that matters.

Seems like this kind of delay would increase the overall print time by
orders of magnitude. 20 minutes instead of five or something like that. This
is totally unacceptable. And ridiculous.

Any feedback on real world numbers with one or two second dry time?

If all this is really true then my desire to own a 3800 is disappearing
fast...

First the Leica M8 is a complete and absolute disaster for me -- is
lightning about to strike twice?
Someone tell me that the 3800 is not a looming disaster for printing on
glossy paper...

Dave.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>FYI. I did notice that when the dry time is 1 sec you don't even
>>notice any pause, probably because it factors in the time from when it
>>lays down the ink, not from when it finishes the line pass.
>
>But hang on a sec. What does a one second dry time do to the overall time it
>takes to have a finished print??? I don't give a rat's ass about perceivable
>pauses, it is the overall print time that matters.
>
>Seems like this kind of delay would increase the overall print time by
>orders of magnitude. 20 minutes instead of five or something like that. This
>is totally unacceptable. And ridiculous.
>
>Any feedback on real world numbers with one or two second dry time?
>
>If all this is really true then my desire to own a 3800 is disappearing
>fast...
>
>First the Leica M8 is a complete and absolute disaster for me -- is
>lightning about to strike twice?
>Someone tell me that the 3800 is not a looming disaster for printing on
>glossy paper...
>
>Dave.

> glossy paper...
> 
> Dave.
> -- 
> My Photography: http://www.david-keenan.com
> My Blog: http://www.david-keenan.com/euroblog
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:57:05 -0600, you wrote:

>>I printed 4 - 8 x 10's on letter sized F-Gloss this afternoon. 1440
>>dpi, high speed on, dry time of 2 secs. print time averaged 7min and
>>15 secs each.
>
>What would the print time have been WITHOUT the delay?
>
>>In my limited trials with the 3800, the pizza marks I have seen so far
>>appear minor to me. I need strong lighting for them to be obvious, and
>>other viewers have not noticed them in the print yet.
>
>>I have tried it with Epson glossy
>>papers, Ilford Gallery Smooth Glossy, Lexjet fiber gloss, black and
>>white and color and NO trouble feeding or with pizza tracks. I even
>>as I mentioned earlier put a sheet in upside down and ink never
>>dried, but no pizza tracks.
>Thanks, guys. This makes me feel more confident.
>
>I have read here about the 4800 having some sort of vacuum system. I have
>never seen a 4800 up close and never printed on me but this system does
>use roller wheels from what I have read. Is that correct?
>
> I have an R2400 and never a problem with wheel marks. Correct me if I'm
>wrong but don't the 2400 and 3800 have similar paper feed mechanisms?
>
>So what does this sound like to you 3800 early adopters: wheel marks on a
>few (possibly out of spec?) units? a driver setting problem? inexperienced
>users? bad luck?
>
>Dave.
>
>PS. Thanks to Bob Michaels for the D-roller URL.

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 11:32:50 -0500, you wrote:

>It's differences in coatings on paper. Using regular Epson luster and
>glossy paper, and similar papers, you don't need to increase dry time
>or worry about pizza wheel marks.
>
>On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 09:57:05 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>>I printed 4 - 8 x 10's on letter sized F-Gloss this afternoon. 1440
>>>dpi, high speed on, dry time of 2 secs. print time averaged 7min and
>>>15 secs each.
>>
>>What would the print time have been WITHOUT the delay?
>>
>>>In my limited trials with the 3800, the pizza marks I have seen so far
>>>appear minor to me. I need strong lighting for them to be obvious, and
>>>other viewers have not noticed them in the print yet.
>>
>>>I have tried it with Epson glossy
>>>papers, Ilford Gallery Smooth Glossy, Lexjet fiber gloss, black and
>>>white and color and NO trouble feeding or with pizza tracks. I even
>>>as I mentioned earlier put a sheet in upside down and ink never
>>>dried, but no pizza tracks.
>>Thanks, guys. This makes me feel more confident.
>>
>>I have read here about the 4800 having some sort of vacuum system. I have
>>never seen a 4800 up close and never printed on me but this system does
>>use roller wheels from what I have read. Is that correct?
>>
>> I have an R2400 and never a problem with wheel marks. Correct me if I'm
>>wrong but don't the 2400 and 3800 have similar paper feed mechanisms?
>>
>>So what does this sound like to you 3800 early adopters: wheel marks on a
>>few (possibly out of spec?) units? a driver setting problem? inexperienced
>>users? bad luck?
>>
>>Dave.
>>
>>PS. Thanks to Bob Michaels for the D-roller URL.