Digital BW, The Print

"Since I've got the printer for a while yet, I'd welcome any B/W related 
questions..."

If you have a heavyweight paper that requires use of the rear paper feed 
(single sheet) I'd be interested in knowing whether you encounter any 
feeding problems. I use Moab Entrada Natural Fine Art with the Epson paper 
setting that Moab recommends. With that setting the printer tells me I have 
to use the rear single-sheet feed.

Lately I've been having a lot of trouble getting the printer to accept the 
paper when I load it from the rear single-sheet feed. I keep getting a 
message that says the paper is incorrectly loaded and to remove the paper 
and try again. Sometimes it takes five or six tries before the printer will 
accept the paper. Since I load it the same way every time it's hard to 
figure out why it works on the second, third, or fourth try and not on the 
previous ones. I haven't yet reached the point of being sufficiently 
aggravated to call Epson but if you (or anyone else here) encounter a 
similar problem and/or a suggested solution I'd appreciate hearing about it.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Cooper" <yg_1@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:10 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] 3800 B/W


I've been looking at B/W on the 3800, after being loaned one by Epson for a 
review

Using QTR linearising profiles to tweak the ABW mode, I have to say I was
mightily impressed by the tone and depth of B/W images on the Epson
media I was trying out.

I've written up some info:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/printer/epson_sp_3800.html

One or two prints on Epson EEM that I'd never been totally happy with, using
ImagePrint on a 9600, printed out just how I wanted them.
This is both good news and bad... ;-)

Since I've got the printer for a while yet, I'd welcome any B/W related 
questions...

In the original review I just used Epson media, but I've quite a few boxes 
of
other paper that might be worth trying, now I've got the main article out of
the way...

bye for now

Keith Cooper



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Brian wrote :

>Lately I've been having a lot of trouble getting the printer to accept
the paper when I load it from the rear single-
>sheet feed. 

It's a very usual issue. Actually I found that I get more succeed in
helping the paper to load in pushing it a little. Loading it that way
drive much less bad load errors from the printer.

Fred

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Brian Ellis
<bellis60@...> wrote:
>
> "Since I've got the printer for a while yet, I'd welcome any B/W
related 
> questions..."
> 
>
Keith,

I wonder if Epson waited to send you the printer until after the
GBP150/= cashback offer ended!

With the results you have achieved with the Epson driver and AWB, you
might not feel the need to compare with the results from using the
Quadtone Rip.  However, I for one would be interested, using EAM and
PhotoRag if you have it, just for general comparison but particlarly
since this would be useful for printing panoramas with the Rip that
the Epson driver cannot do longer than 37 inches.

Colin

Before photography, I looked - now, I see.

www.colinconwayphotography.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Brian Ellis <bellis60@...> wrote:
> ... I haven't yet reached the point of being sufficiently 
> aggravated to call Epson but if you (or anyone else here) encounter a 
> similar problem and/or a suggested solution I'd appreciate hearing about it.

I've just been trying some A3 sheets of Innova soft textured natural white (315g)
and about one in five sheets gets me a failure to load.

It's quite a stiff card, so i found that firmly pushing it down into the printer gets
the printer to recognise it and pull it into place.

When i was talking to my paper/ink supplier the other day he said that several
people had feed issues with the rear slot - mostly after using quite a bit of
paper and particularly from ones likely to shed dust.

One person had taken to lightly spraying some diluted PVA onto a sheet of
thick paper, and letting it dry to a slightly tacky finish to pick up dust - not
something I'd be keen to replicate - even if the printer is a demo one ;-)

bye for now

Keith

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "colingruk" <ColinJConway@...> 
wrote:
> With the results you have achieved with the Epson driver and AWB, you
> might not feel the need to compare with the results from using the
> Quadtone Rip.  However, I for one would be interested, using EAM and
> PhotoRag if you have it, just for general comparison but particlarly
> since this would be useful for printing panoramas with the Rip that
> the Epson driver cannot do longer than 37 inches.

I've only got 24" and 44" roll paper for my 9600 to try, that's bigger than the
boxes of cut sheet.

The 3800 is currently hooked up to my Powerbook, so I'll see what I can try
with QTR if I can find some suitable paper...

I do actually have a new pano B/W image from the North Californian coast
that I put together recently when testing the latest version of Stitcher. I did
a test print on my 9600, widthways at 43"x9", so i could just  trim off a bit
of EEM to try

bye for now
Keith

Hi Brian,

Glad I am not the only one.  I have been using Innova, Hahnamuhle, 
and Crane Air Dried media and have the same issues with the 3800.  
Sometimes flexing the paper before loading seems to help.  I am 
hoping the load wheels do not become glazed with these papers.  My 
2200 had a lot of trouble with H. Satin. 

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Brian Ellis 
<bellis60@...> wrote:
>
> "Since I've got the printer for a while yet, I'd welcome any B/W 
related 
> questions..."
> 
> If you have a heavyweight paper that requires use of the rear paper 
feed 
> (single sheet) I'd be interested in knowing whether you encounter 
any 
> feeding problems. I use Moab Entrada Natural Fine Art with the 
Epson paper 
> setting that Moab recommends. With that setting the printer tells 
me I have 
> to use the rear single-sheet feed.
> 
> Lately I've been having a lot of trouble getting the printer to 
accept the 
> paper when I load it from the rear single-sheet feed. I keep 
getting a 
> message that says the paper is incorrectly loaded and to remove the 
paper 
> and try again. Sometimes it takes five or six tries before the 
printer will 
> accept the paper. Since I load it the same way every time it's hard 
to 
> figure out why it works on the second, third, or fourth try and not 
on the 
> previous ones. I haven't yet reached the point of being 
sufficiently 
> aggravated to call Epson but if you (or anyone else here) encounter 
a 
> similar problem and/or a suggested solution I'd appreciate hearing 
about it.

As others have said, a little extra pressure to hold down the paper 
in the rear feed will many times help it get started.

I had one batch of paper which, even using that method, was extremely 
difficult to feed....needing many restarts.  I finally realized that 
the paper had be cut slightly out of square.  It was not really 
apparent, unless the image was close to the edge.  Once I realized 
it, I could readily predict which paper would have difficulty.

Apparently the 3800 want properly aligned paper...which it should to 
feed it properly.  I replaced the paper and have had minimal problems 
since.

On the subject of dust...  I have not had the problem yet with the 
3800, but did with my R1800.  I used the method suggested at 
InkJetArt with success. http://www.inkjetart.com/tips/dust/index.html 

John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Brian Ellis 
<bellis60@...> wrote:
>
> "Since I've got the printer for a while yet, I'd welcome any B/W 
related 
> questions..."
> 
> If you have a heavyweight paper that requires use of the rear paper 
feed 
> (single sheet) I'd be interested in knowing whether you encounter 
any 
> feeding problems. I use Moab Entrada Natural Fine Art with the 
Epson paper 
> setting that Moab recommends. With that setting the printer tells 
me I have 
> to use the rear single-sheet feed.
> 
> Lately I've been having a lot of trouble getting the printer to 
accept the 
> paper when I load it from the rear single-sheet feed. I keep 
getting a 
> message that says the paper is incorrectly loaded and to remove the 
paper 
> and try again. Sometimes it takes five or six tries before the 
printer will 
> accept the paper. Since I load it the same way every time it's hard 
to 
> figure out why it works on the second, third, or fourth try and not 
on the 
> previous ones. I haven't yet reached the point of being 
sufficiently 
> aggravated to call Epson but if you (or anyone else here) encounter 
a 
> similar problem and/or a suggested solution I'd appreciate hearing 
about it.
>

"You are supposed to apply firm, consistent pressure on the top
edge of the print and hold it that way until the printer picks it up."

That's what I do.

"If you continue to see problems, just turn the Paper Size check off
from the front of the printer panel. (Menu -> Setup -> Paper Size)"

Thanks, I'll try that. It has no bad side-effects?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Chan" <madmanchan2000@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 3800 B/W


I am surprised to hear the feeding issues with the 3800. I almost
always feed single-sheet through the Rear Feed using a variety of
papers, from 12 mils thick to 23 mils thick and never get a feed
error. You are supposed to apply firm, consistent pressure on the top
edge of the print and hold it that way until the printer picks it up.
If you continue to see problems, just turn the Paper Size check off
from the front of the printer panel. (Menu -> Setup -> Paper Size)



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

I am surprised to hear the feeding issues with the 3800. I almost
always feed single-sheet through the Rear Feed using a variety of
papers, from 12 mils thick to 23 mils thick and never get a feed
error. You are supposed to apply firm, consistent pressure on the top
edge of the print and hold it that way until the printer picks it up.
If you continue to see problems, just turn the Paper Size check off
from the front of the printer panel. (Menu -> Setup -> Paper Size)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Chan"
<madmanchan2000@...> wrote:
>
> I am surprised to hear the feeding issues with the 3800. I almost
> always feed single-sheet through the Rear Feed using a variety of
> papers, from 12 mils thick to 23 mils thick and never get a feed
> error. You are supposed to apply firm, consistent pressure on the top
> edge of the print and hold it that way until the printer picks it up.
> If you continue to see problems, just turn the Paper Size check off
> from the front of the printer panel. (Menu -> Setup -> Paper Size)
>

I have found the rear feed to be delicate also; I have just used the
trial and error method and usually succeed. However, I have no trouble
using the front feed with the Entrada 300 gsm although I know it
should be used in the rear feeder. Has anyone else used the front feed
for this thickness paper?

Howard

Does anyone know anything about Calumet's pigment inks?

Since the introduction of the 3800 I've seen many feeding problems with the top feeders 
but not the rear feeder. I've actually seen people cry trying to get this to work. I've tried two 
solutions which seem to work:

1. Put a piece of foam core 3/16" thick (cut to the exact size of the paper your printing 
with) in back of one sheet of paper in the front top loader. It fools the printer into thinking 
it has a stack of paper behind the one sheet.

2. Load the thick fine art paper in the top rear feeder with both the thumb and forefinger 
of both hands on either side of the paper so that it can load evenly. Do not force(!) but let 
the printer grab the paper. At that point it grabs it, let go of the paper quickly with both 
hands.

This whole thing is a design flaw - a minor one, but exasperating - and doesn't blemish 
the printer's other excellent qualities.

George

> I have found the rear feed to be delicate also; I have just used the
> trial and error method and usually succeed. However, I have no trouble
> using the front feed with the Entrada 300 gsm although I know it
> should be used in the rear feeder. Has anyone else used the front feed
> for this thickness paper?


I don't recommend it because you'll get a fuzzy, "ghosted" image. This
results because the print head is too far away from the sheet and the
droplets don't end up where they're intended to be on the page.

Eric

> "If you continue to see problems, just turn the Paper Size check off
> from the front of the printer panel. (Menu -> Setup -> Paper Size)"
> 
> Thanks, I'll try that. It has no bad side-effects?

None that I'm aware of, except that you can't print borderless.

Eric

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Chan" 
<madmanchan2000@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > "If you continue to see problems, just turn the Paper Size check off
> > from the front of the printer panel. (Menu -> Setup -> Paper Size)"
> > 
> > Thanks, I'll try that. It has no bad side-effects?
> 
> None that I'm aware of, except that you can't print borderless.
> 
> Eric

I use this method but in speaking with an Epson tech he warned me that 
if you put a smaller piece of paper in the feeder than the size 
indicated in the print driver, you risk some overspray onto the 
platten.  Just need to be careful.

Fred Rothenberg