Digital BW, The Print

On Thursday 31 Jan 2002 12:16 pm, aphoto23 wrote:
> I submit this to this list as this is the list of relative experts. I
> reference color, but most or all on this list are well versed in the
> realm of ink fading or potential light deterioration of Epson dye and
> MIS pigments. Which is my subject at hand.
>
> I have my dedicated B&W 1160 aside, for the moment, until MIS
> completes the mixing of the sepia ink. After printing several
> beautiful 8x10s from an Epson 880, with the original Epson cartridge,
> in color, and leaving them out on a lawn chair in the sun for 10
> days, day and night, I see zero fading or degradation of any kind.
> None. 'Even one unexpected rainstorm failed to deteriorate the prints.
>
> Have I missed a point regarding potential fading here ?
>
> They are printed on Epson Archival Matte. With the original Epson
> cartridge, which I presume to be 100 dye based.
>
> The MIS archival color pigments cost 3 times as much as the cloned
> dye mixture. And the dyes would seem to be, if anything, more likely
> to be safer in terms of clogging, and their gamut being greater than
> the MIS archival color pigments seems to be given, from what I can
> gather.
>
> These are shots that I spent much Photoshop and Extensis Intellihance
> time on and previously printed out up to 13x19 in Grayscale on the
> 1160, so they were already as maxed out as they could likely get in
> terms of enhancement, but this would not relate to the non-fading
> factor.
>
> I am about to order a CIS/CFS and want to choose the inks.
>
> 1 - Have the (880) dyes been possibly been given a bum rap due to the
> orange shift and fading in other Epson ink sets ?
>
> 2 - Might it be as much a factor of the paper - that instigates the
> problem of fading with this or other Epson dye based inks ?
>
> All in all, I hope that Paul and Jerry O. and others might have a few
> words to say as to the need or not to go with MIS Pigments rather
> than MIS "exactly the same" Epson dye based bulk ink for my CIS/CFS.
>
> Thanks,
>
> J. F. Johnson
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> JF-
> 
> When I first got my 1280, it came with epson's newly formulated ink
> (dye). I used the ink to make many colorful art prints, and a few test
> prints that I put in a South Window that gets sunlight all day. After a
> month, there was no noticeable fading at all compared to a dark storage
> print of the same image. The image was full of brilliantly colored
> objects on a blue and cyan background... Absolutely no difference in the
> two prints.  We have never had any orange shift problems in North Dakota
> that I'm aware of. I would think that under glass in a low light
> environment the colors wouldn't fade for many years. I've tried the same
> print with Generations and MIS inks for 3 months in a sunny south
> window, with no fading. The Epson Archival Matte paper on which these
> prints were made did turn a slightly buff color in the areas that had no
> image on them, but the colors themselves didn't change. 
> 
> This is an extreme test, as nobody is going to display any work of art
> in bright sunlight, I hope!
> 
> If a print can withstand 3 months in the sun with little or no fading,
> That inkset is good enough for me. It's probably as good as we're going
> to get now. I'm sure it will get better in the future.
> 
> I'm about to order a set of Generations 5 inks and a new 1280 printer,
> and I don't think I'll even be concerned about print longevity again.
> I've gone though as many tests as I plan on going through, and now I'm
> just going to print.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> . After printing several
> > beautiful 8x10s from an Epson 880, with the original Epson cartridge,
> > in color, and leaving them out on a lawn chair in the sun for 10
> > days, day and night, I see zero fading or degradation of any kind.
> > None. 'Even one unexpected rainstorm failed to deteriorate the prints.
> 
> > Have I missed a point regarding potential fading here ?
> 
> No the new epson inks are much better than the previous ones. You should
> see what prints from the first epsons look like. Totally worthless, even
> those in dark storage!
> 
> I really do doubt that any dye inks are going to last anywhere near as
> long as the Generations 5 inks or the MIS archival pigment inks though.

> I submit this to this list as this is the list of relative experts. I 
> reference color, but most or all on this list are well versed in the 
> realm of ink fading or potential light deterioration of Epson dye and 
> MIS pigments. Which is my subject at hand.
> 
> I have my dedicated B&W 1160 aside, for the moment, until MIS 
> completes the mixing of the sepia ink. After printing several 
> beautiful 8x10s from an Epson 880, with the original Epson cartridge, 
> in color, and leaving them out on a lawn chair in the sun for 10 
> days, day and night, I see zero fading or degradation of any kind. 
> None. 'Even one unexpected rainstorm failed to deteriorate the prints.
> 
> Have I missed a point regarding potential fading here ? 
> 
> They are printed on Epson Archival Matte. With the original Epson 
> cartridge, which I presume to be 100 dye based. 
> 
> The MIS archival color pigments cost 3 times as much as the cloned 
> dye mixture. And the dyes would seem to be, if anything, more likely 
> to be safer in terms of clogging, and their gamut being greater than 
> the MIS archival color pigments seems to be given, from what I can 
> gather.
> 
> These are shots that I spent much Photoshop and Extensis Intellihance 
> time on and previously printed out up to 13x19 in Grayscale on the 
> 1160, so they were already as maxed out as they could likely get in 
> terms of enhancement, but this would not relate to the non-fading 
> factor.
> 
> I am about to order a CIS/CFS and want to choose the inks. 
> 
> 1 - Have the (880) dyes been possibly been given a bum rap due to the 
> orange shift and fading in other Epson ink sets ?
> 
> 2 - Might it be as much a factor of the paper - that instigates the 
> problem of fading with this or other Epson dye based inks ?
> 
> All in all, I hope that Paul and Jerry O. and others might have a few 
> words to say as to the need or not to go with MIS Pigments rather 
> than MIS "exactly the same" Epson dye based bulk ink for my CIS/CFS.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> J. F. Johnson