Digital BW, The Print

Did it fly right by me or hasn't anyone discussed their techniques  
for converting color to b&w? Urm...or maybe everyone shoots film on  
this list?

I've been using...more like learning two different, but similar methods:

LIGHTROOM
Adobe Lightroom offers two different ways to convert to greyscale:
	a. By reducing the saturation  of each color, you can then adjust  
the lightness of each to effect each color to be lighter or darker
	b. By clicking the Greyscale tab and doing, basically the same thing

PHOTOSHOP
I've been using Hue & Saturation adjustments layers by creating on to  
desaturate all the color (I call this layer "Film") and then below it  
I place another H&S adjustment layer to adjust the densities of the  
color to get the tone I want.

I must say, adjusting the brightness of each color to change the  
density of a given color, something seems wrong about this idea. Have  
you ever adjusted one the brightness in a Hue & Saturation on a color  
image? It's like taking the black point in the curves dialog and  
brightening it. Seems to me there might be a better way.

I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been  
"playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?




_________________________________
Mark Gilvey
The ImageWorks
Integrated Media Designer

mark@...
www.t-i-w.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For those that have CS3 you have the option of using the b/w adjustment
layer.  Gives you all the flexibility of what you do in Lightroom.

 

 

Also for those that use CS3 you can do the conversion in Camera Raw in a
similar fashion.   

 

My other preferred approach is to use the Channel mixer adjustment layer.
Here I look at the Channels first.decide which channel provides the best B/W
rendition for the subject manner.

 

Often I use the Red for people/classic figure,  Green for Landscape etc.

 

Once you chose the Channel.R, G or B the add the Channel Mixer Adjustment
layer.  At the top pull down menu chose your channel.RG or B.

 

The Click Grayscale in the lower left.    You now have a Greyscale image and
you can move the RGB sliders to adjust the tone of all the layers.

 

I now prefer the b/w adjustment layer.   The slick thing here is that once
you add the adjustment layer you have the option of using a number of
presets.

 

Ie:  high contrast, IR effect etc.   You can also move all the colored
sliders around.what is really slick is that you can move the cursor to a
part of your image and slide the cursor back and forth to effect only those
colors that you are pointing to.

 

As with everything in Photoshop there is an unlimited number of ways to
accomplish the b/w conversion.  There are many many more which I am sure
will be highlighted in follow posts.

 

Paul

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Gilvey
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:48 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] B&W Conversion Techniques

 

Did it fly right by me or hasn't anyone discussed their techniques 
for converting color to b&w? Urm...or maybe everyone shoots film on 
this list?

I've been using...more like learning two different, but similar methods:

LIGHTROOM
Adobe Lightroom offers two different ways to convert to greyscale:
a. By reducing the saturation of each color, you can then adjust 
the lightness of each to effect each color to be lighter or darker
b. By clicking the Greyscale tab and doing, basically the same thing

PHOTOSHOP
I've been using Hue & Saturation adjustments layers by creating on to 
desaturate all the color (I call this layer "Film") and then below it 
I place another H&S adjustment layer to adjust the densities of the 
color to get the tone I want.

I must say, adjusting the brightness of each color to change the 
density of a given color, something seems wrong about this idea. Have 
you ever adjusted one the brightness in a Hue & Saturation on a color 
image? It's like taking the black point in the curves dialog and 
brightening it. Seems to me there might be a better way.

I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been 
"playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

_________________________________
Mark Gilvey
The ImageWorks
Integrated Media Designer

mark@... <mailto:mark%40t-i-w.com> 
www.t-i-w.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I need to get CS3, there are a lot of new features in it that I like.  
Thank you for your input on channel mixing...it gives me some  
structure instead of just fiddling. Do you ever grab anything from  
the blue (garbage) channel?

Mark



On Jan 22, 2008, at 10:11 PM, Paul Grant wrote:

> For those that have CS3 you have the option of using the b/w  
> adjustment
> layer. Gives you all the flexibility of what you do in Lightroom.
>
> Also for those that use CS3 you can do the conversion in Camera Raw  
> in a
> similar fashion.
>
> My other preferred approach is to use the Channel mixer adjustment  
> layer.
> Here I look at the Channels first.decide which channel provides the  
> best B/W
> rendition for the subject manner.
>
> Often I use the Red for people/classic figure, Green for Landscape  
> etc.
>
> Once you chose the Channel.R, G or B the add the Channel Mixer  
> Adjustment
> layer. At the top pull down menu chose your channel.RG or B.
>
> The Click Grayscale in the lower left. You now have a Greyscale  
> image and
> you can move the RGB sliders to adjust the tone of all the layers.
>
> I now prefer the b/w adjustment layer. The slick thing here is that  
> once
> you add the adjustment layer you have the option of using a number of
> presets.
>
> Ie: high contrast, IR effect etc. You can also move all the colored
> sliders around.what is really slick is that you can move the cursor  
> to a
> part of your image and slide the cursor back and forth to effect  
> only those
> colors that you are pointing to.
>
> As with everything in Photoshop there is an unlimited number of  
> ways to
> accomplish the b/w conversion. There are many many more which I am  
> sure
> will be highlighted in follow posts.
>
> Paul
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> Mark
> Gilvey
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:48 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] B&W Conversion Techniques
>
> Did it fly right by me or hasn't anyone discussed their techniques
> for converting color to b&w? Urm...or maybe everyone shoots film on
> this list?
>
> I've been using...more like learning two different, but similar  
> methods:
>
> LIGHTROOM
> Adobe Lightroom offers two different ways to convert to greyscale:
> a. By reducing the saturation of each color, you can then adjust
> the lightness of each to effect each color to be lighter or darker
> b. By clicking the Greyscale tab and doing, basically the same thing
>
> PHOTOSHOP
> I've been using Hue & Saturation adjustments layers by creating on to
> desaturate all the color (I call this layer "Film") and then below it
> I place another H&S adjustment layer to adjust the densities of the
> color to get the tone I want.
>
> I must say, adjusting the brightness of each color to change the
> density of a given color, something seems wrong about this idea. Have
> you ever adjusted one the brightness in a Hue & Saturation on a color
> image? It's like taking the black point in the curves dialog and
> brightening it. Seems to me there might be a better way.
>
> I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been
> "playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
>
> _________________________________
> Mark Gilvey
> The ImageWorks
> Integrated Media Designer
>
> mark@... <mailto:mark%40t-i-w.com>
> www.t-i-w.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes CS3 has few worthwhile features......

The Channel mixer feature is available in CS2 so you can play with it there.

From time to find I find that the blue channel works....but it is really
image dependent.

Paul

On 1/22/08 7:49 PM, "Mark Gilvey" <mark@...> wrote:

> I need to get CS3, there are a lot of new features in it that I like.
> Thank you for your input on channel mixing...it gives me some
> structure instead of just fiddling. Do you ever grab anything from
> the blue (garbage) channel?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 22, 2008, at 10:11 PM, Paul Grant wrote:
> 
>> For those that have CS3 you have the option of using the b/w
>> adjustment
>> layer. Gives you all the flexibility of what you do in Lightroom.
>> 
>> Also for those that use CS3 you can do the conversion in Camera Raw
>> in a
>> similar fashion.
>> 
>> My other preferred approach is to use the Channel mixer adjustment
>> layer.
>> Here I look at the Channels first.decide which channel provides the
>> best B/W
>> rendition for the subject manner.
>> 
>> Often I use the Red for people/classic figure, Green for Landscape
>> etc.
>> 
>> Once you chose the Channel.R, G or B the add the Channel Mixer
>> Adjustment
>> layer. At the top pull down menu chose your channel.RG or B.
>> 
>> The Click Grayscale in the lower left. You now have a Greyscale
>> image and
>> you can move the RGB sliders to adjust the tone of all the layers.
>> 
>> I now prefer the b/w adjustment layer. The slick thing here is that
>> once
>> you add the adjustment layer you have the option of using a number of
>> presets.
>> 
>> Ie: high contrast, IR effect etc. You can also move all the colored
>> sliders around.what is really slick is that you can move the cursor
>> to a
>> part of your image and slide the cursor back and forth to effect
>> only those
>> colors that you are pointing to.
>> 
>> As with everything in Photoshop there is an unlimited number of
>> ways to
>> accomplish the b/w conversion. There are many many more which I am
>> sure
>> will be highlighted in follow posts.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>> Mark
>> Gilvey
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:48 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Digital BW] B&W Conversion Techniques
>> 
>> Did it fly right by me or hasn't anyone discussed their techniques
>> for converting color to b&w? Urm...or maybe everyone shoots film on
>> this list?
>> 
>> I've been using...more like learning two different, but similar
>> methods:
>> 
>> LIGHTROOM
>> Adobe Lightroom offers two different ways to convert to greyscale:
>> a. By reducing the saturation of each color, you can then adjust
>> the lightness of each to effect each color to be lighter or darker
>> b. By clicking the Greyscale tab and doing, basically the same thing
>> 
>> PHOTOSHOP
>> I've been using Hue & Saturation adjustments layers by creating on to
>> desaturate all the color (I call this layer "Film") and then below it
>> I place another H&S adjustment layer to adjust the densities of the
>> color to get the tone I want.
>> 
>> I must say, adjusting the brightness of each color to change the
>> density of a given color, something seems wrong about this idea. Have
>> you ever adjusted one the brightness in a Hue & Saturation on a color
>> image? It's like taking the black point in the curves dialog and
>> brightening it. Seems to me there might be a better way.
>> 
>> I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been
>> "playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
>> 
>> _________________________________
>> Mark Gilvey
>> The ImageWorks
>> Integrated Media Designer
>> 
>> mark@... <mailto:mark%40t-i-w.com>
>> www.t-i-w.com
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
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>

Paul Grant wrote:
> 
> 
> ...
> My other preferred approach is to use the Channel mixer adjustment layer.
> Here I look at the Channels first.decide which channel provides the best B/W
> rendition for the subject manner.
> 
> Often I use the Red for people/classic figure, Green for Landscape etc.
> 
> 

I use the channel mixer in CS2 and balance the color sliders to get the 
eye appeal I want. It's possible to exceed [slightly] 100% in one color 
and be negative in another to get what you want, but mostly you'll find 
that you'll have the sliders at 80/25/15, eg, one color dominant and the 
other two contributing.

Roger

Very interesting, I'll give it a try.

Mark


On Jan 23, 2008, at 1:13 AM, Roger wrote:

> Paul Grant wrote:
> >
> >
> > ...
> > My other preferred approach is to use the Channel mixer  
> adjustment layer.
> > Here I look at the Channels first.decide which channel provides  
> the best B/W
> > rendition for the subject manner.
> >
> > Often I use the Red for people/classic figure, Green for  
> Landscape etc.
> >
> >
>
> I use the channel mixer in CS2 and balance the color sliders to get  
> the
> eye appeal I want. It's possible to exceed [slightly] 100% in one  
> color
> and be negative in another to get what you want, but mostly you'll  
> find
> that you'll have the sliders at 80/25/15, eg, one color dominant  
> and the
> other two contributing.
>
> Roger
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Mark,

>I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been  
>"playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

I use a combination of Hue/Sat layer and Channel Mix layer in CS.
Here is the full technique I now use, which has evolved over time.  It
gives a large amount of control without being too complex.  First,
change the file directly to Grayscale and save it with a different
file name.  This will provide a different version to compare with
later.  Then reopen the original color file and do the following steps:

1) Create a Hue/Sat layer and save it without making any changes.

2) Create a Channel Mixer layer, check the Monochrome box, leave the
sliders at Red = 100, Green = 0, Blue = 0 and click OK to save.

3) Reopen the ChMx layer and change the sliders to these values:
       Red = 60, Green = 40, Blue = 0

4) Toggle the "Preview" check box to compare the 60/40 version with
the 100/Red version.  Select the one you like the best as a starting
point, then move the sliders slightly to see if it can be improved. 
The slider values should always total 100.  Then click OK to save the
settings.

5) Open the Hue/Sat layer, change the "Edit" list to Reds, and move
the Saturation slider to see if the image can be improved.  Then do
the same for each color. 

6) Then change the Edit list to Master and move the Hue slider to see
if the image can be improved.  Then click OK to save the settings.

7) Flatten all the layers and convert the image to Grayscale mode.

8) Finally, compare this version with the straight grayscale version
to see which one you like the best.  Sometimes I'm surprised.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak

Hi Clayton,

I will give it a try.

Mark



On Jan 23, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Hello Mark,
>
> >I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been
> >"playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
>
> I use a combination of Hue/Sat layer and Channel Mix layer in CS.
> Here is the full technique I now use, which has evolved over time. It
> gives a large amount of control without being too complex. First,
> change the file directly to Grayscale and save it with a different
> file name. This will provide a different version to compare with
> later. Then reopen the original color file and do the following steps:
>
> 1) Create a Hue/Sat layer and save it without making any changes.
>
> 2) Create a Channel Mixer layer, check the Monochrome box, leave the
> sliders at Red = 100, Green = 0, Blue = 0 and click OK to save.
>
> 3) Reopen the ChMx layer and change the sliders to these values:
> Red = 60, Green = 40, Blue = 0
>
> 4) Toggle the "Preview" check box to compare the 60/40 version with
> the 100/Red version. Select the one you like the best as a starting
> point, then move the sliders slightly to see if it can be improved.
> The slider values should always total 100. Then click OK to save the
> settings.
>
> 5) Open the Hue/Sat layer, change the "Edit" list to Reds, and move
> the Saturation slider to see if the image can be improved. Then do
> the same for each color.
>
> 6) Then change the Edit list to Master and move the Hue slider to see
> if the image can be improved. Then click OK to save the settings.
>
> 7) Flatten all the layers and convert the image to Grayscale mode.
>
> 8) Finally, compare this version with the straight grayscale version
> to see which one you like the best. Sometimes I'm surprised.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> I-Trak
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is a great method Clayton. I didn't know I could adjust the  
saturation to make a change. I thought I could only use the lightness  
part of the h/s adjustment. That is what I've been looking for.

Mark




On Jan 23, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Hello Mark,
>
> >I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been
> >"playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
>
> I use a combination of Hue/Sat layer and Channel Mix layer in CS.
> Here is the full technique I now use, which has evolved over time. It
> gives a large amount of control without being too complex. First,
> change the file directly to Grayscale and save it with a different
> file name. This will provide a different version to compare with
> later. Then reopen the original color file and do the following steps:
>
> 1) Create a Hue/Sat layer and save it without making any changes.
>
> 2) Create a Channel Mixer layer, check the Monochrome box, leave the
> sliders at Red = 100, Green = 0, Blue = 0 and click OK to save.
>
> 3) Reopen the ChMx layer and change the sliders to these values:
> Red = 60, Green = 40, Blue = 0
>
> 4) Toggle the "Preview" check box to compare the 60/40 version with
> the 100/Red version. Select the one you like the best as a starting
> point, then move the sliders slightly to see if it can be improved.
> The slider values should always total 100. Then click OK to save the
> settings.
>
> 5) Open the Hue/Sat layer, change the "Edit" list to Reds, and move
> the Saturation slider to see if the image can be improved. Then do
> the same for each color.
>
> 6) Then change the Edit list to Master and move the Hue slider to see
> if the image can be improved. Then click OK to save the settings.
>
> 7) Flatten all the layers and convert the image to Grayscale mode.
>
> 8) Finally, compare this version with the straight grayscale version
> to see which one you like the best. Sometimes I'm surprised.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> I-Trak
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is nto a plug for software but... I am a Linux user who has
stumbled across a peice of software called LightZone from
http://www.lightcrafts.com. It is written in Java and has versions for
Windoze Mac and Linux. 

Doing B&W conversions is the best I have experienced. When you click to
convert to B&W it shows a colour wheel and you just select the filter
that you want. Beautiful! It is by no means a replacement for CS2 or
Lightroom/Aperture but it has a place I think.

D r e w

Hey that's a pretty cool program.

Mark


On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:21 PM, Drew Tait wrote:

> This is nto a plug for software but... I am a Linux user who has
> stumbled across a peice of software called LightZone from
> http://www.lightcrafts.com. It is written in Java and has versions for
> Windoze Mac and Linux.
>
> Doing B&W conversions is the best I have experienced. When you  
> click to
> convert to B&W it shows a colour wheel and you just select the filter
> that you want. Beautiful! It is by no means a replacement for CS2 or
> Lightroom/Aperture but it has a place I think.
>
> D r e w
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Check out www.thepluginsite.com In the photowiz section there is a plugin called B/W styler. It gives you the most control in B/W conversion that I have ever seen. There are seven different conversion techniques. For you darkroom types, you can simulate several different types of B/W film or filters. There is a free demo download available (unfortunately your images have watermarks). In both Windows and Mac.

Worth a try,


Gary



www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown

 
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I made an interesting B&W plugin as part of my Digital converter package. You may just be interested only by the converter. You should give it a try. It will give you breathtaking B&W conversion. I use it all the time.
When you install the software, just go under the tools tab. You'll see a button called B&W converter.
Try it and you may....
Here's the link:
http://www.PierreOlivierTavernier.com/Joomla

PO

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gary Brown 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: B&W Conversion Techniques


  Check out www.thepluginsite.com In the photowiz section there is a plugin called B/W styler. It gives you the most control in B/W conversion that I have ever seen. There are seven different conversion techniques. For you darkroom types, you can simulate several different types of B/W film or filters. There is a free demo download available (unfortunately your images have watermarks). In both Windows and Mac.

  Worth a try,

  Gary

  www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> ... LightZone from http://www.lightcrafts.com. 
> Doing B&W conversions is the best I have experienced. When you click to
> convert to B&W it shows a colour wheel and you just select the filter
> that you want. Beautiful! 
> It is by no means a replacement for CS2 or
> Lightroom/Aperture but it has a place I think.

LightZone is well worth a look if you tend to think in Zone-System terms. Among other 
things, it allows you to lock or adjust specific zones ("Zone Mapping", they call it) --- for 
example, you might "lock" Zone 3 where it is and then "expand" Zone 6 upward, resulting 
in more midtone separation while keeping low tones where they were. It is done by 
"sliding" zones up or down on a grey-scale ruler.   I find the zone-rule approach easier to 
think about than adjusting a response curve, especially since the Zone Mapper function 
shows the zones on a "map" of the image as well, so you can easily see what you are 
affecting.

All of the adjustments can be turned on and off, so converting to B&W, like everything 
else, is "non-destructive" as people say.

BTW, it does a really good job at "relighting" shadows --- something that is important to 
me, since my most common subjects are black dogs!

I use a Mac, and own CS3, LightZone, RawDeveloper, Expression Media (formerly iView 
Media Pro), GraphicConverter, Aperture, Lightroom, , Photomatix Pro, Autopanopro, and 
(recently) DxO Optics Pro.   I use only the first five regularly.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Grant" 
<gphoto2@...> wrote:
>
> For those that have CS3 you have the option of using the b/w 
adjustment
> layer.  Gives you all the flexibility of what you do in Lightroom.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Also for those that use CS3 you can do the conversion in Camera Raw 
in a
> similar fashion.   
> 
>  
> snip

Paul,

Do you have any thoughts about the relative merits of doing the 
conversion to B&Won the raw file via ACR or taking the color image 
out of the raw converter and into PS and use the new B&W Adjustment 
layer? Any thought about when one might give better results that the 
other?

Russel Brown gives a similar technic but with two Hue/Sat layers.
You create the first one and you choose the blending mode to "color", that will act as filters.
You create the second one and just désaturate to -100, that will act as your B&W film.
Then you reopen the "filters' layer" and make all the ajustements you want on Hue/Sat and Ligthness for each color.

Cheers
Michel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To convert to B&W, you just turn color off.

To emulate the response curve of a different medium, you can salt to taste.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 1/24/08 at 7:00 PM Mic wrote:

>Russel Brown gives a similar technic but with two Hue/Sat layers.
>You create the first one and you choose the blending mode to "color", that
>will act as filters.
>You create the second one and just désaturate to -100, that will act as
>your B&W film.
>Then you reopen the "filters' layer" and make all the ajustements you want
>on Hue/Sat and Ligthness for each color.
>
>Cheers
>Michel
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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This is one of my favored conversion techniques.  Requires PS. Short
tutorial at the end of article.

http://www.designbyfire.com/?p=17

Tai


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gilvey
<mark@...> wrote:

>
> That is a great method Clayton. I didn't know I could adjust the  
> saturation to make a change. I thought I could only use the lightness  
> part of the h/s adjustment. That is what I've been looking for.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 23, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
> 
> > Hello Mark,
> >
> > >I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been
> > >"playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
> >
> > I use a combination of Hue/Sat layer and Channel Mix layer in CS.
> > Here is the full technique I now use, which has evolved over time. It
> > gives a large amount of control without being too complex. First,
> > change the file directly to Grayscale and save it with a different
> > file name. This will provide a different version to compare with
> > later. Then reopen the original color file and do the following steps:
> >
> > 1) Create a Hue/Sat layer and save it without making any changes.
> >
> > 2) Create a Channel Mixer layer, check the Monochrome box, leave the
> > sliders at Red = 100, Green = 0, Blue = 0 and click OK to save.
> >
> > 3) Reopen the ChMx layer and change the sliders to these values:
> > Red = 60, Green = 40, Blue = 0
> >
> > 4) Toggle the "Preview" check box to compare the 60/40 version with
> > the 100/Red version. Select the one you like the best as a starting
> > point, then move the sliders slightly to see if it can be improved.
> > The slider values should always total 100. Then click OK to save the
> > settings.
> >
> > 5) Open the Hue/Sat layer, change the "Edit" list to Reds, and move
> > the Saturation slider to see if the image can be improved. Then do
> > the same for each color.
> >
> > 6) Then change the Edit list to Master and move the Hue slider to see
> > if the image can be improved. Then click OK to save the settings.
> >
> > 7) Flatten all the layers and convert the image to Grayscale mode.
> >
> > 8) Finally, compare this version with the straight grayscale version
> > to see which one you like the best. Sometimes I'm surprised.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> >
> > Info on black and white digital printing at
> > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > I-Trak
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Another program that uses a color wheel to select your filter when doing a  
conversion to B&W is Picture Windows Pro which is only $90. It is,  
however, only a Windows program, but it can be run in Linux under Wine. I  
don't know anything about running it on a Mac.

It is a different style of user interface than PS, much more intuitive and  
more photographer friendly in my opinion. But for $90, it is a very  
capable program and you can try it for 30 days for free to see if you like  
it.

Steve

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:21:12 -0800, Drew Tait <drewt8@...> wrote:

> This is nto a plug for software but... I am a Linux user who has
> stumbled across a peice of software called LightZone from
> http://www.lightcrafts.com. It is written in Java and has versions for
> Windoze Mac and Linux.
>
> Doing B&W conversions is the best I have experienced. When you click to
> convert to B&W it shows a colour wheel and you just select the filter
> that you want. Beautiful! It is by no means a replacement for CS2 or
> Lightroom/Aperture but it has a place I think.
>
> D r e w


-- 
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Hey that works pretty well. The photo I used was kind of dark and the  
3/4 tone on down blocked up but if you add some color to the color  
layer you get some nice control. I like the idea of converting to 16  
bit as well.

Mark


On Jan 24, 2008, at 4:43 PM, sparta_0321 wrote:

> This is one of my favored conversion techniques. Requires PS. Short
> tutorial at the end of article.
>
> http://www.designbyfire.com/?p=17
>
> Tai
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gilvey
> <mark@...> wrote:
> >
> > That is a great method Clayton. I didn't know I could adjust the
> > saturation to make a change. I thought I could only use the  
> lightness
> > part of the h/s adjustment. That is what I've been looking for.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Mark,
> > >
> > > >I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been
> > > >"playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
> > >
> > > I use a combination of Hue/Sat layer and Channel Mix layer in CS.
> > > Here is the full technique I now use, which has evolved over  
> time. It
> > > gives a large amount of control without being too complex. First,
> > > change the file directly to Grayscale and save it with a different
> > > file name. This will provide a different version to compare with
> > > later. Then reopen the original color file and do the following  
> steps:
> > >
> > > 1) Create a Hue/Sat layer and save it without making any changes.
> > >
> > > 2) Create a Channel Mixer layer, check the Monochrome box,  
> leave the
> > > sliders at Red = 100, Green = 0, Blue = 0 and click OK to save.
> > >
> > > 3) Reopen the ChMx layer and change the sliders to these values:
> > > Red = 60, Green = 40, Blue = 0
> > >
> > > 4) Toggle the "Preview" check box to compare the 60/40 version  
> with
> > > the 100/Red version. Select the one you like the best as a  
> starting
> > > point, then move the sliders slightly to see if it can be  
> improved.
> > > The slider values should always total 100. Then click OK to  
> save the
> > > settings.
> > >
> > > 5) Open the Hue/Sat layer, change the "Edit" list to Reds, and  
> move
> > > the Saturation slider to see if the image can be improved. Then do
> > > the same for each color.
> > >
> > > 6) Then change the Edit list to Master and move the Hue slider  
> to see
> > > if the image can be improved. Then click OK to save the settings.
> > >
> > > 7) Flatten all the layers and convert the image to Grayscale mode.
> > >
> > > 8) Finally, compare this version with the straight grayscale  
> version
> > > to see which one you like the best. Sometimes I'm surprised.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Clayton
> > >
> > > Info on black and white digital printing at
> > > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > > I-Trak
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is the quick and dirty on Rob Carr's technique that I linked too.
  
    * Convert to Lab Color (Image > Mode > Lab)
    * Select the “Lightness” channel (Channels palette > “Lightness”
channel)
    * Convert to Grayscale (Image > Mode > Grayscale)
    * Make the new channel the selection (Control/Cmd - click the
thumbnail in the new “Gray” channel)
    * Invert selection (Select > Inverse) (Leave this selection active
for the next steps)
    * With selection active, convert image to RGB color (Image > Mode
> RGB)
    * With selection still active, create a Solid Color Adjustment
Layer (Layer > New Fill Layer > Solid Color… > Select color) Slect
whatever color you wish, preferably a rich dark color (1A1A1A)
    * Adjust the opacity of the Solid Color adjustment layer (Layers
palette > select “Color Fill 1″ > set opacity to ~50%)
    * Create a new Levels (or Curves if you prefer) adjustment layer
(Layer > New Adjustment Layer > Levels)
    * Tweak the levels in the adjustment layer as you like
    * Tweak the color of the Solid Color adjustment layer to control
the tone and add sepia looks if wanted.

TW
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gilvey
<mark@...> wrote:

>
> Hey that works pretty well. The photo I used was kind of dark and the  
> 3/4 tone on down blocked up but if you add some color to the color  
> layer you get some nice control. I like the idea of converting to 16  
> bit as well.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> On Jan 24, 2008, at 4:43 PM, sparta_0321 wrote:
> 
> > This is one of my favored conversion techniques. Requires PS. Short
> > tutorial at the end of article.
> >
> > http://www.designbyfire.com/?p=17
> >
> > Tai
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gilvey
> > <mark@> wrote:
> > >
> > > That is a great method Clayton. I didn't know I could adjust the
> > > saturation to make a change. I thought I could only use the  
> > lightness
> > > part of the h/s adjustment. That is what I've been looking for.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 23, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Mark,
> > > >
> > > > >I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been
> > > > >"playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
> > > >
> > > > I use a combination of Hue/Sat layer and Channel Mix layer in CS.
> > > > Here is the full technique I now use, which has evolved over  
> > time. It
> > > > gives a large amount of control without being too complex. First,
> > > > change the file directly to Grayscale and save it with a different
> > > > file name. This will provide a different version to compare with
> > > > later. Then reopen the original color file and do the following  
> > steps:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Create a Hue/Sat layer and save it without making any changes.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Create a Channel Mixer layer, check the Monochrome box,  
> > leave the
> > > > sliders at Red = 100, Green = 0, Blue = 0 and click OK to save.
> > > >
> > > > 3) Reopen the ChMx layer and change the sliders to these values:
> > > > Red = 60, Green = 40, Blue = 0
> > > >
> > > > 4) Toggle the "Preview" check box to compare the 60/40 version  
> > with
> > > > the 100/Red version. Select the one you like the best as a  
> > starting
> > > > point, then move the sliders slightly to see if it can be  
> > improved.
> > > > The slider values should always total 100. Then click OK to  
> > save the
> > > > settings.
> > > >
> > > > 5) Open the Hue/Sat layer, change the "Edit" list to Reds, and  
> > move
> > > > the Saturation slider to see if the image can be improved. Then do
> > > > the same for each color.
> > > >
> > > > 6) Then change the Edit list to Master and move the Hue slider  
> > to see
> > > > if the image can be improved. Then click OK to save the settings.
> > > >
> > > > 7) Flatten all the layers and convert the image to Grayscale mode.
> > > >
> > > > 8) Finally, compare this version with the straight grayscale  
> > version
> > > > to see which one you like the best. Sometimes I'm surprised.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Clayton
> > > >
> > > > Info on black and white digital printing at
> > > > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > > > I-Trak
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

That's it! The Russel Brown method is the one I spoke about in my  
initial post but I didn't remember where I got it from. Just a note  
here, in Russels version the only way to make any changes on the  
Filter adjustment layer is to adjust the lightness of each color. The  
saturation has little or no effect. Now, if you look at Clayton's  
version, instead of an extra H/S layer, he uses a Channel Mixer  
adjustment layer. When used with a H/S adjustment layer below it, you  
can control the tones for each color with all three sliders in the H/ 
S...Hue, Saturation and Lightness. Goooo Clayton. I think you should  
march right into Russels office at Adobe and lay down the facts! LOL!

Mark


On Jan 24, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Mic wrote:

> Russel Brown gives a similar technic but with two Hue/Sat layers.
> You create the first one and you choose the blending mode to  
> "color", that will act as filters.
> You create the second one and just d�saturate to -100, that will  
> act as your B&W film.
> Then you reopen the "filters' layer" and make all the ajustements  
> you want on Hue/Sat and Ligthness for each color.
>
> Cheers
> Michel
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Some additional sources for b&w conversion - and lots more on these sites

http://www.epaperpress.com/psphoto/index.html 
look around - there is a black and white conversion action

http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/photoshop-tools.htm
also lots to look at and try

alan
http://www.omages.com

Or, if you would like to have some free fun trying different 
conversion effects, download Pog's latest monochrome conversion 
Photoshop plugin filter from his website.   Get the latest v3.91.  
Use the random setting generator, then adjust to taste.  Actually a 
good learning tool, too.  Sorry, 8 bit only, but hey!

http://tinyurl.com/23ecrp

Phil Morse



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Berkson" 
<alanberkson@...> wrote:
>
> Some additional sources for b&w conversion - and lots more on these 
sites

> 
> http://www.epaperpress.com/psphoto/index.html 
> look around - there is a black and white conversion action
> 
> http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/photoshop-tools.htm
> also lots to look at and try
> 
> alan
> http://www.omages.com
>

I have made an Photoshop Action based on everyones input on this  
topic. You can find it at http://www.myfxjournal.us Go into the  
Downloads page an you will see a text link for it on the left under  
"OTHER DOWNLOADS". I made it in PS CS2 on a Mac. I don't know if it  
will run on Windows or not as I've never tried loading Actions made  
on a Mac onto a Windows machine.

The blue buttons are Readme files. So is the yellow one you will see  
at the top of the list. It contains the version number.

Mark



On Jan 24, 2008, at 9:01 PM, Phil Morse wrote:

>
> Or, if you would like to have some free fun trying different
> conversion effects, download Pog's latest monochrome conversion
> Photoshop plugin filter from his website. Get the latest v3.91.
> Use the random setting generator, then adjust to taste. Actually a
> good learning tool, too. Sorry, 8 bit only, but hey!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/23ecrp
>
> Phil Morse
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Berkson"
> <alanberkson@...> wrote:
> >
> > Some additional sources for b&w conversion - and lots more on these
> sites
> >
> > http://www.epaperpress.com/psphoto/index.html
> > look around - there is a black and white conversion action
> >
> > http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/photoshop-tools.htm
> > also lots to look at and try
> >
> > alan
> > http://www.omages.com
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Mark,

>...Clayton's version, instead of an extra H/S layer, he uses a 
>Channel Mixer adjustment layer. When used with a H/S adjustment
>layer below it, you can control the tones for each color with all 
>three sliders in the H/S...Hue, Saturation and Lightness. Goooo 
>Clayton. I think you should march right into Russels office at 
>Adobe and lay down the facts! LOL!

Glad you like it, but I can't take credit for it.  The idea for using
these two layers is just one of many things I found somewhere on the
web a few years ago.  My only contribution is the particular workflow
I described, which has evolved over time. There are so many variables
you could play with it forever, but this sequence allows drilling down
to a final setting pretty quickly.

Over a 2+ year period I tried at least 8 or 10 different methods, from
simple to very complex, including actions, plugins and some commercial
product demos.  The main thing I learned from all that is that no one
approach is best for every image.  

I started out looking for the holy grail: something that would make my
digicam images look like my scanned Tri-X negs.  Even after I accepted
that it was a fool's errand I still held on to the idea that a single
approach or recipe would work for everything, once I found the one I
liked the best.  Over time as I gained experience and began to get an
intuitive feel for it I finally came to understand how much each image
requires individual treatment.  

After being enamored for a while of some of the canned approaches,
with predefined settings to emulate certain films or filters and such,
I came back around to the Photoshop layer type processes that let you
experiment and tweak to find what works best for each image.  To me
the canned approachs are like a channelized CB or FRS radio compared
to Amateur (Ham) Radios that use a VFO and give you continuous tuning
across the spectrum.  I finally settled on this particular approach as
being the best balance between simple and complex and giving all the
control I need - the "best bang for the buck", so to speak.  This
workflow allows me to feel my way into an image, each one being a
completely new exploration.  Sometimes the slightest tweak on a slider
makes a big difference.

As you can see, there are lots of different ways to do it.  Everyone
has to find their own path up the mountain.  It took me over two years
years to arrive at this approach.  


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak

I stand by Clayton's method. 

I tried using a few plug-ins, and while sometimes the results are what 
you are looking for and sometimes not, I found that most times I could 
emulate the look of the plug-in in PS anyway, just in more steps. Plus 
I hate giving away the flexibility that layers allows and I like to 
keep things in 16-bit during the editing stage.

While I generally use use the method Clayton advocates (make sure the 
Hue/Sat layer is under the channel mizer on your layers view), I find 
that sometimes I prefer a curves adjustment here either in place of, or 
in conjuction with, the Hue/Sat layer. This allows me to fine-tune 
things even more in the highlights and shadows for each channel. Not 
all images need this, but some do. It goes with out saying, that all of 
these techniques can be applied with masks, as needed.

There was a comment earlier about throwing out the "garbage" blue 
channel. While I may be in the minority here, I find the blue channel 
often contains the element I am looking for to make certain images pop 
or stand out. An example is a field of different lavender types that I 
shot at a lavender farm this summer. Or one time I shot a portait of a 
friend practicing yoga. As he had grey eyes and a fair complection, the 
blue channel gave a dramamtic look to the portrait, while the green and 
red channel version looked rather mundane. True, it usually contains 
more noise, especially in the shadows, but careful noise treatment of 
the blue channel can usually bring this to within acceptable levels.

And, as others here have pointed out, no one way approach best with all 
images. If you take some time to experiment, your time invested will 
definitely pay off.

Paul G.

pglombick wrote:
> There was a comment earlier about throwing out the "garbage" blue 
> channel. While I may be in the minority here, I find the blue channel 
> often contains the element I am looking for to make certain images pop 
> or stand out. An example is a field of different lavender types that I 
> shot at a lavender farm this summer. Or one time I shot a portait of a 
> friend practicing yoga. As he had grey eyes and a fair complection, the 
> blue channel gave a dramamtic look to the portrait, while the green and 
> red channel version looked rather mundane. True, it usually contains 
> more noise, especially in the shadows, but careful noise treatment of 
> the blue channel can usually bring this to within acceptable levels.
> 

I find that the blue channel often has the greatest amount of shadow 
detail. It's also great for emphasising atmospheric haze & recession and 
for simulating antique film types. I think they must have been biased to 
blue light.

Howard

The topic of B&W conversion seems like a hot topic as it is also going on at
the NAPP site now. I'll mention RealGrain from Imagenomic. It can be applied
to 16 bit files, allows for layer use, can add grain, if you want to and
gives you control over selective color channels. The down side is the pixel
limitation that many plug ins can run into with PS. So if you are shooting
new digital; capture it may be very viable, but if you are looking at
working with scans, may be not as much so in 16 bit.  LR, PS have nice
conversions too and for many of us, already in the tool box. 

 

 

Here are a couple of links that you may find useful. 

 

 

 (http://www.plugsandpixels.com/ezine.html) 

(http://www.plugsandpixels.com/imageeffects.html).

 

You may need to copy and paste the addresses here. Plugs and Pixel sis a
site that list many plug ins for PS. It is a site that does commerce so it
is not going to list everyone, but what sites and internet groups don't have
an agenda? 

 

I don't have a connection to it. 

 

 

 

Eric

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pglombick
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 7:50 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: B&W Conversion Techniques

 

I stand by Clayton's method. 

I tried using a few plug-ins, and while sometimes the results are what 
you are looking for and sometimes not, I found that most times I could 
emulate the look of the plug-in in PS anyway, just in more steps. Plus 
I hate giving away the flexibility that layers allows and I like to 
keep things in 16-bit during the editing stage.

While I generally use use the method Clayton advocates (make sure the 
Hue/Sat layer is under the channel mizer on your layers view), I find 
that sometimes I prefer a curves adjustment here either in place of, or 
in conjuction with, the Hue/Sat layer. This allows me to fine-tune 
things even more in the highlights and shadows for each channel. Not 
all images need this, but some do. It goes with out saying, that all of 
these techniques can be applied with masks, as needed.

There was a comment earlier about throwing out the "garbage" blue 
channel. While I may be in the minority here, I find the blue channel 
often contains the element I am looking for to make certain images pop 
or stand out. An example is a field of different lavender types that I 
shot at a lavender farm this summer. Or one time I shot a portait of a 
friend practicing yoga. As he had grey eyes and a fair complection, the 
blue channel gave a dramamtic look to the portrait, while the green and 
red channel version looked rather mundane. True, it usually contains 
more noise, especially in the shadows, but careful noise treatment of 
the blue channel can usually bring this to within acceptable levels.

And, as others here have pointed out, no one way approach best with all 
images. If you take some time to experiment, your time invested will 
definitely pay off.

Paul G. 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What I've been doing lately is to use different BW conversions for different parts of the image.

So, instead of being stuck with, say, an orange filter on your film camera, that globally affects the image, you can use different filtration depending on what's in the image. A bit more red for the sky, a bit more blue for the dirt road and grass paddocks in my back roads shots, for example.

So I've been duplicating the image and doing different channel mixer BW conversions on each one, making a selection of the area I want with that conversion, copying that selection to a new layer and dragging that layer onto the master image.

It's so great to be able to do this with digital:)

Richard
--
Backroads Essay:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/TheBackroadsOfWarkworth
Greeting Cards available for purchase:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/GreetingCards
http://photos.smallfield.vze.com
http://smallfield.vze.com

   "It is a puzzling thing.  The truth knocks on the door and 
   you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth.' and so it 
   goes away.  Puzzling."
   --Robert M. Pirsig

"That's it! The Russel Brown method is the one I spoke about in my 
initial post but I didn't remember where I got it from. Just a note 
here, in Russels version the only way to make any changes on the 
Filter adjustment layer is to adjust the lightness of each color. The 
saturation has little or no effect. "

Wrong !  If you cannot adjust colours it is because you didn't set the blending mode to COLOUR !
Try again.

Michel

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark,

Your actions work on a PC and I notice you didn't set the blending mode of the filters layer to "Colour" ; so of course you don't get any changes when playing with the hue/sat sliders.

Michel



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You mean "color".... ;-) I never thought of setting the blending  
mode, I'll give it a try, thanks.

Mark



On Jan 25, 2008, at 3:17 PM, Mic wrote:

> "That's it! The Russel Brown method is the one I spoke about in my
> initial post but I didn't remember where I got it from. Just a note
> here, in Russels version the only way to make any changes on the
> Filter adjustment layer is to adjust the lightness of each color. The
> saturation has little or no effect. "
>
> Wrong ! If you cannot adjust colours it is because you didn't set  
> the blending mode to COLOUR !
> Try again.
>
> Michel
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, I just replied to your previous post. I will update the Action.  
Thanks again, good call.

Mark



On Jan 25, 2008, at 3:19 PM, Mic wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Your actions work on a PC and I notice you didn't set the blending  
> mode of the filters layer to "Colour" ; so of course you don't get  
> any changes when playing with the hue/sat sliders.
>
> Michel
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mic, and everyone else. I have updated the Action. http:// 
www.myfxjournal.us /downloads section on left.

Mark



On Jan 25, 2008, at 3:19 PM, Mic wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Your actions work on a PC and I notice you didn't set the blending  
> mode of the filters layer to "Colour" ; so of course you don't get  
> any changes when playing with the hue/sat sliders.
>
> Michel
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark,

To quote my 18 yo son it's "way cool".
Not only do you not have to spend a fortune on PS training; you already
have it because it speaks photography! Neither do you need a linguist to
assist with PS terminology.

It never, by default, saves onto the virgin image file which is a big
plus and every action is undoable. Brilliant!!

The other thing which impressed me about it was it handles RAW files:
specifically the DNG files of my Ricoh GX100. 

I had a lot pf poblems printing with it -- java blows up -- but that is
the fault in Sun's JRE so I installed the IBM one and bingo I can now
print if I want.

I have never considered actually buying software. THe only exception has
been Vuescan. LightZone I think will be the other exception to the rule.
There is one other which comes close too: the Bibble Labs
(bibblelabs.com) Professional Workflow Software. It works on Linux and
Windows too and is quote a bit cheaper than LZ but more ocmplicated. It
produces some great results too. It has a lite version of Noise Ninja in
it.

Whatever the technology the point is to enjoy!

Happy Australia Day!!

Drew

On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 23:26 -0500, Mark Gilvey wrote:
> Hey that's a pretty cool program.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:21 PM, Drew Tait wrote:
> 
> > This is nto a plug for software but... I am a Linux user who has
> > stumbled across a peice of software called LightZone from
> > http://www.lightcrafts.com. It is written in Java and has versions for
> > Windoze Mac and Linux.
> >
> > Doing B&W conversions is the best I have experienced. When you  
> > click to
> > convert to B&W it shows a colour wheel and you just select the filter
> > that you want. Beautiful! It is by no means a replacement for CS2 or
> > Lightroom/Aperture but it has a place I think.
> >
> > D r e w
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

How can I put my Action on the group download page?

Mark



On Jan 25, 2008, at 5:19 PM, Drew Tait wrote:

> Mark,
>
> To quote my 18 yo son it's "way cool".
> Not only do you not have to spend a fortune on PS training; you  
> already
> have it because it speaks photography! Neither do you need a  
> linguist to
> assist with PS terminology.
>
> It never, by default, saves onto the virgin image file which is a big
> plus and every action is undoable. Brilliant!!
>
> The other thing which impressed me about it was it handles RAW files:
> specifically the DNG files of my Ricoh GX100.
>
> I had a lot pf poblems printing with it -- java blows up -- but  
> that is
> the fault in Sun's JRE so I installed the IBM one and bingo I can now
> print if I want.
>
> I have never considered actually buying software. THe only  
> exception has
> been Vuescan. LightZone I think will be the other exception to the  
> rule.
> There is one other which comes close too: the Bibble Labs
> (bibblelabs.com) Professional Workflow Software. It works on Linux and
> Windows too and is quote a bit cheaper than LZ but more  
> ocmplicated. It
> produces some great results too. It has a lite version of Noise  
> Ninja in
> it.
>
> Whatever the technology the point is to enjoy!
>
> Happy Australia Day!!
>
> Drew
>
> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 23:26 -0500, Mark Gilvey wrote:
> > Hey that's a pretty cool program.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:21 PM, Drew Tait wrote:
> >
> > > This is nto a plug for software but... I am a Linux user who has
> > > stumbled across a peice of software called LightZone from
> > > http://www.lightcrafts.com. It is written in Java and has  
> versions for
> > > Windoze Mac and Linux.
> > >
> > > Doing B&W conversions is the best I have experienced. When you
> > > click to
> > > convert to B&W it shows a colour wheel and you just select the  
> filter
> > > that you want. Beautiful! It is by no means a replacement for  
> CS2 or
> > > Lightroom/Aperture but it has a place I think.
> > >
> > > D r e w
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier  
> messages to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of  
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts  
> may be removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines  
> in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW,  
> THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT  
> BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW,  
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH  
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE  
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR  
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>... I'll mention RealGrain from Imagenomic. It can be applied
> to 16 bit files, allows for layer use, can add grain, if you want to and
> gives you control over selective color channels. The down side is the pixel
> limitation that many plug ins can run into with PS.

For what it's worth, RealGrain is really excellent at simulating the look of film grain, right 
down to the differing image softness you would see from different film formats. It does an 
extaordinarily good job of disguising residual noise and interpolation artifacts.

BW comprehensive info resource at RetouchPRO: 

("safe" tinyul preview link) - http://preview.tinyurl.com/23en42

- - - - -

Actions: There are a boatload of BW actions at 

http://www.atncentral.com

KentC's action is prety slick. It's a twist on the dual hue/sat 
adjustment layer Russell Brown technique mentioned previously. Kent 
uses a Selective Color AL in place of the bottom HS AL. 

- - - - -

Image > Calculations: 

There are a lot of creative potential using this command, however 
intuitive "is is NOT" and it's a bit cumbersome to use, especially 
for those who are indecisive, like me.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=17082710

- - - - -

Contrast masking can be useful method...

http://www.outbackphoto.com/workshop/photoshop_corner/essay_06/essay.h
tml

...as can luminoscity masking...

http://www.goodlight.us/writing/luminositymasks/luminositymasks-1.html

- - - - -

FWIW I prefer to use an action to create individual layers from each 
RGB channel plus CMYK's K channel (set to Multiply). This is like 
employing a combination of Calculations + Channel Mixer. It enables 
one creativity and flexibility via masks, blend modes, opacity 
settings and layer specific Curves adjustment layers. 

Cheers,

  ~DannyR~

Hello
     Since this topic is up I would like to ask a related question.  Do you think that doing the 
conversion in camera raw itself  ie changing to grayscale and using the curves is better 
than post processing in PS (whichever way)?

Ritayan
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gilvey <mark@...> wrote:

>
> How can I put my Action on the group download page?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 25, 2008, at 5:19 PM, Drew Tait wrote:
> 
> > Mark,
> >
> > To quote my 18 yo son it's "way cool".
> > Not only do you not have to spend a fortune on PS training; you  
> > already
> > have it because it speaks photography! Neither do you need a  
> > linguist to
> > assist with PS terminology.
> >
> > It never, by default, saves onto the virgin image file which is a big
> > plus and every action is undoable. Brilliant!!
> >
> > The other thing which impressed me about it was it handles RAW files:
> > specifically the DNG files of my Ricoh GX100.
> >
> > I had a lot pf poblems printing with it -- java blows up -- but  
> > that is
> > the fault in Sun's JRE so I installed the IBM one and bingo I can now
> > print if I want.
> >
> > I have never considered actually buying software. THe only  
> > exception has
> > been Vuescan. LightZone I think will be the other exception to the  
> > rule.
> > There is one other which comes close too: the Bibble Labs
> > (bibblelabs.com) Professional Workflow Software. It works on Linux and
> > Windows too and is quote a bit cheaper than LZ but more  
> > ocmplicated. It
> > produces some great results too. It has a lite version of Noise  
> > Ninja in
> > it.
> >
> > Whatever the technology the point is to enjoy!
> >
> > Happy Australia Day!!
> >
> > Drew
> >
> > On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 23:26 -0500, Mark Gilvey wrote:
> > > Hey that's a pretty cool program.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:21 PM, Drew Tait wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is nto a plug for software but... I am a Linux user who has
> > > > stumbled across a peice of software called LightZone from
> > > > http://www.lightcrafts.com. It is written in Java and has  
> > versions for
> > > > Windoze Mac and Linux.
> > > >
> > > > Doing B&W conversions is the best I have experienced. When you
> > > > click to
> > > > convert to B&W it shows a colour wheel and you just select the  
> > filter
> > > > that you want. Beautiful! It is by no means a replacement for  
> > CS2 or
> > > > Lightroom/Aperture but it has a place I think.
> > > >
> > > > D r e w
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> > visiting this same page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier  
> > messages to keep them short.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> > from the membership without notice.
> > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of  
> > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts  
> > may be removed from the membership.
> > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> > group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines  
> > in the Files section:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > >
> > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW,  
> > THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> > OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT  
> > BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW,  
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH  
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE  
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR  
> > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

It  really depends on your workflow.  The CS3 and the latest camera raw you
have lots of great tools..However I still prefer to do the conversion in CS3
which leaves me with more flexibility.

 

I like the the LAB conversion method myself.

 

Paul

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
ritayan_mitra
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 9:54 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: B&W Conversion Techniques

 

Hello
Since this topic is up I would like to ask a related question. Do you think
that doing the 
conversion in camera raw itself ie changing to grayscale and using the
curves is better 
than post processing in PS (whichever way)?

Ritayan
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Mark Gilvey
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> How can I put my Action on the group download page?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 25, 2008, at 5:19 PM, Drew Tait wrote:
> 
> > Mark,
> >
> > To quote my 18 yo son it's "way cool".
> > Not only do you not have to spend a fortune on PS training; you 
> > already
> > have it because it speaks photography! Neither do you need a 
> > linguist to
> > assist with PS terminology.
> >
> > It never, by default, saves onto the virgin image file which is a big
> > plus and every action is undoable. Brilliant!!
> >
> > The other thing which impressed me about it was it handles RAW files:
> > specifically the DNG files of my Ricoh GX100.
> >
> > I had a lot pf poblems printing with it -- java blows up -- but 
> > that is
> > the fault in Sun's JRE so I installed the IBM one and bingo I can now
> > print if I want.
> >
> > I have never considered actually buying software. THe only 
> > exception has
> > been Vuescan. LightZone I think will be the other exception to the 
> > rule.
> > There is one other which comes close too: the Bibble Labs
> > (bibblelabs.com) Professional Workflow Software. It works on Linux and
> > Windows too and is quote a bit cheaper than LZ but more 
> > ocmplicated. It
> > produces some great results too. It has a lite version of Noise 
> > Ninja in
> > it.
> >
> > Whatever the technology the point is to enjoy!
> >
> > Happy Australia Day!!
> >
> > Drew
> >
> > On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 23:26 -0500, Mark Gilvey wrote:
> > > Hey that's a pretty cool program.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 23, 2008, at 8:21 PM, Drew Tait wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is nto a plug for software but... I am a Linux user who has
> > > > stumbled across a peice of software called LightZone from
> > > > http://www.lightcrafts.com. It is written in Java and has 
> > versions for
> > > > Windoze Mac and Linux.
> > > >
> > > > Doing B&W conversions is the best I have experienced. When you
> > > > click to
> > > > convert to B&W it shows a colour wheel and you just select the 
> > filter
> > > > that you want. Beautiful! It is by no means a replacement for 
> > CS2 or
> > > > Lightroom/Aperture but it has a place I think.
> > > >
> > > > D r e w
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> > visiting this same page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> > messages to keep them short.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
> > from the membership without notice.
> > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> > digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts 
> > may be removed from the membership.
> > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
> > group Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines 
> > in the Files section:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > >
> > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE 
> > OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT 
> > BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, 
> > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> > DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE 
> > DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
> > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO 
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Gilvey
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> Did it fly right by me or hasn't anyone discussed their techniques
> for converting color to b&w? Urm...or maybe everyone shoots film on
> this list?
>
> I've been using...more like learning two different, but similar
methods:
>
> LIGHTROOM
> Adobe Lightroom offers two different ways to convert to greyscale:
> a. By reducing the saturation of each color, you can then adjust
> the lightness of each to effect each color to be lighter or darker
> b. By clicking the Greyscale tab and doing, basically the same thing
>
> PHOTOSHOP
> I've been using Hue & Saturation adjustments layers by creating on to
> desaturate all the color (I call this layer "Film") and then below it
> I place another H&S adjustment layer to adjust the densities of the
> color to get the tone I want.
>
> I must say, adjusting the brightness of each color to change the
> density of a given color, something seems wrong about this idea. Have
> you ever adjusted one the brightness in a Hue & Saturation on a color
> image? It's like taking the black point in the curves dialog and
> brightening it. Seems to me there might be a better way.
>
> I have played around with channel mixing but it has only been
> "playing". Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________
> Mark Gilvey
> The ImageWorks
> Integrated Media Designer
>
> mark@...
> www.t-i-w.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I'm new to the forum but have been doing Digital B&W since PS5. I have
been using Lightroom for a lot of my work latly and was wondering if
anyone here would be willing to share any conversion formula/receipts
for converitn in light room. What are the settings for T-Max or Agfa?



Thanks

Lonnie

> 
> FWIW I prefer to use an action to create individual layers from each 
> RGB channel plus CMYK's K channel (set to Multiply). This is like 
> employing a combination of Calculations + Channel Mixer. It enables 
> one creativity and flexibility via masks, blend modes, opacity 
> settings and layer specific Curves adjustment layers. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>   ~DannyR~
>



danny,

can you explain this action?  where can i find more info on this method?

thanks.

More info here on the concept/method:

http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phs8bwconversion.pdf

In essence the action builds a layer stack by doing the following for 
each channel:
* Switch to Channels palette
* Click on the target channel, e.g., Red
* Select > all
* Edit > copy
* Click on the composite channel, e.g., RGB, to select it
* Switch to Layers palette
* Edit > paste (new layer)
* Assign a meaningful name to the new layer, e.g., "Green"

Check your e-mail.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "c1asia" 
<c1asia@...> wrote:
>
> > I prefer to use an action to create individual layers from each 
> > RGB channel plus CMYK's K channel (set to Multiply). > 
> 
> danny,
> 
> can you explain this action?  where can i find more info on this 
method?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Danny Raphael" 
<dannyraphael@...> wrote:
>
> More info here on the concept/method:
> 
> http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phs8bwconversion.pdf
> 
> In essence the action builds a layer stack by doing the following 
for 
> each channel:
> * Switch to Channels palette
> * Click on the target channel, e.g., Red
> * Select > all
> * Edit > copy
> * Click on the composite channel, e.g., RGB, to select it
> * Switch to Layers palette
> * Edit > paste (new layer)
> * Assign a meaningful name to the new layer, e.g., "Green"
> 
> Check your e-mail.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "c1asia" 
> <c1asia@> wrote:
> >
> > > I prefer to use an action to create individual layers from each 
> > > RGB channel plus CMYK's K channel (set to Multiply). > 
> > 
> > danny,
> > 
> > can you explain this action?  where can i find more info on this 
> method?
>





i didn't see any reference to...  "plus CMYK's K channel (set to 
Multiply)".

is this something separate that was added onto the other method?  to 
increase black?

> I'm new to the forum but have been doing Digital B&W since PS5. I have
> been using Lightroom for a lot of my work latly and was wondering if
> anyone here would be willing to share any conversion formula/receipts
> for converitn in light room. What are the settings for T-Max or Agfa?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Lonnie
>

Here's a link to a how to video from the LRNews web site. The video is 
from Martin Evening.
http://lightroom-news.com/2007/08/24/tips-for-better-black-and-white-
conversions/

-How does it work with B&W film scanned in RGB?   I have been using the technique shown 
in the Greg Gorman web site www.greggorman.com.  

Martin

> Here's a link to a how to video from the LRNews web site. The video is 
> from Martin Evening.
> http://lightroom-news.com/2007/08/24/tips-for-better-black-and-white-
> conversions/
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "c1asia" 
<c1asia@...> wrote:
>
 
> i didn't see any reference to...  "plus CMYK's K channel (set to 
> Multiply)".
> 
> is this something separate that was added onto the other method?  to 
> increase black?
>

Yes. A separate copy of the original RGB image converted to CMYK and 
the same steps as noted previously harvest the K channel. Once the K 
layer is created in the layer stack its blend mode is changed from 
Normal to Multiply and a layer mask is added, enabling one to 
selectively apply the effect.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Danny Raphael" 
<dannyraphael@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "c1asia" 
> <c1asia@> wrote:
> >
>  
> > i didn't see any reference to...  "plus CMYK's K channel (set to 
> > Multiply)".
> > 
> > is this something separate that was added onto the other method?  
to 
> > increase black?
> >
> 
> Yes. A separate copy of the original RGB image converted to CMYK 
and 
> the same steps as noted previously harvest the K channel. Once the 
K 
> layer is created in the layer stack its blend mode is changed from 
> Normal to Multiply and a layer mask is added, enabling one to 
> selectively apply the effect.
>


i'll definitely have to give this method a try.  i've been using a 
selective color layer under a desaturate layer and that allows quite 
a bit of flexibility to change tones to your taste.

> i've been using a selective color layer under a desaturate layer
> that allows quite a bit of flexibility to change tones to your taste.

A twist on this is to add a hue/sat adjustment layer (blend mode=color) 
above or below the selective color layer (or in place of it, aka 
Russell Brown method) to enable further adjustments by color.

Too many methods, too little time!