Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2008-02-29 by markleewebb
I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be appreciated !
2008-02-29 by F
> I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). > Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? > Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be > appreciated ! I have the same DSLR and right now I use C1 Pro For processing followed by a massive dose of CS3. The captures very open shadows are a problem for me. You can use LightRoom but with PS you will get much more control of your images. Fred
2008-03-01 by markleewebb
Looks like PS is around $600?? Ouch. No other alternatives? --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "F" <fred@...> wrote: > > > > I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). > > Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? > > Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be > > appreciated ! > > I have the same DSLR and right now I use C1 Pro For processing followed by a massive dose > of CS3. The captures very open shadows are a problem for me. > > You can use LightRoom but with PS you will get much more control of your images.
> > Fred >
2008-03-01 by Paul Grant
You can certainly use Lightroom for your conversion of IR images. I find it works quite well. Certainly you have more options with Photoshop but I am sure you will be pleased with what you can do with Lightroom. Paul
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of markleewebb Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:14 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: What Software to Use Looks like PS is around $600?? Ouch. No other alternatives? --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "F" <fred@...> wrote: > > > > I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). > > Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? > > Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be > > appreciated ! > > I have the same DSLR and right now I use C1 Pro For processing followed by a massive dose > of CS3. The captures very open shadows are a problem for me. > > You can use LightRoom but with PS you will get much more control of your images. > > Fred > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-01 by Gary Brown
Photoshop Elements Much less expensive, fewer features than full blown Photoshop. Depending on your needs it may be sufficient, worth a try. Gary www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown (lots of IR, shot with converted 20D)
----- Original Message ----- From: markleewebb To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 9:14 PM Subject: [Digital BW] Re: What Software to Use Looks like PS is around $600?? Ouch. No other alternatives? --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "F" <fred@...> wrote: > > > > I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). > > Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? > > Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be > > appreciated ! > > I have the same DSLR and right now I use C1 Pro For processing followed by a massive dose > of CS3. The captures very open shadows are a problem for me. > > You can use LightRoom but with PS you will get much more control of your images. > > Fred > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-01 by danielstaver
> I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). > Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? > Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be > appreciated ! I use both. Lightroom is fantastic for organizing large amounts of images. It also supports most global adjustments you'd normally want to do on an image. But if you ever find yourself wanting to apply something selectively to parts of the image, use layers, brushes, or use a photoshop plugin, you'll need Photoshop. Do check out Photoshop Elements. I haven't tried it myself, but people say it's very good and supports many of the same operations as Photoshop. Adobe has fully functional 30 day trials of both available for download. I recommend trying both.
2008-03-01 by Eric Neilsen
If you ever? When does one NOT continue to manipulate an image after capture except after it is framed or some other final step? The only images of mine that I don't do dodge, burn, etc are those table top set ups that I've shot in studio where lighting is absolutely controlled. That also occasionally hold true for portraiture, but I prefer to give the subject some room to roam in the frame and finish up later. Since I do all the printing I don't, or hardly ever, hand it of for someone else to print. A good editing program like PS is required at the very least with the elements package. Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 http://e.neilsen.home.att.net http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype ejprinter _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of danielstaver Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:39 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: What Software to Use > I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). > Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? > Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be > appreciated ! I use both. Lightroom is fantastic for organizing large amounts of images. It also supports most global adjustments you'd normally want to do on an image. But if you ever find yourself wanting to apply something selectively to parts of the image, use layers, brushes, or use a photoshop plugin, you'll need Photoshop. Do check out Photoshop Elements. I haven't tried it myself, but people say it's very good and supports many of the same operations as Photoshop. Adobe has fully functional 30 day trials of both available for download. I recommend trying both. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-01 by Gary Weaver
Actually, the knowledge to use PS is what's important. So, it's a matter of applying knowledge. I can dodge and burn at a fraction of the cost on my pII-450 : ) gar *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 3/1/08 at 3:05 PM Eric Neilsen wrote: >If you ever? When does one NOT continue to manipulate an image after >capture except after it is framed or some other final step? The only images >of mine that I don't do dodge, burn, etc are those table top set ups that >I've shot in studio where lighting is absolutely controlled. That also >occasionally hold true for portraiture, but I prefer to give the subject >some room to roam in the frame and finish up later. Since I do all the >printing I don't, or hardly ever, hand it of for someone else to print. > > > >A good editing program like PS is required at the very least with the >elements package. > > > > > >Eric Neilsen Photography > >4101 Commerce Street > >Suite 9 > >Dallas, TX 75226 > >http://e.neilsen.home.att.net > >http://ericneilsenphotography.com > >Skype ejprinter > > _____ > >From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of >danielstaver >Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:39 PM >To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [Digital BW] Re: What Software to Use > > > >> I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). >> Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? >> Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be >> appreciated ! > >I use both. Lightroom is fantastic for organizing large amounts of >images. It also supports most global adjustments you'd normally want >to do on an image. But if you ever find yourself wanting to apply >something selectively to parts of the image, use layers, brushes, or >use a photoshop plugin, you'll need Photoshop. Do check out Photoshop >Elements. I haven't tried it myself, but people say it's very good and >supports many of the same operations as Photoshop. > >Adobe has fully functional 30 day trials of both available for >download. I recommend trying both. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as >they are often being updated. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same >page. > >Please follow these basic guidelines: >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep >them short. >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >membership without notice. >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from >the membership. >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner >and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files >section: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND >�MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >�OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
2008-03-01 by Steve and Ann Taylor
I woulod reccomend Picture Windows Pro. Which it to be found at: http://dl-c.com/content/view/13/27/ it's only $90 and has a 30 day trial. Steve On Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:14:02 -0800, markleewebb <webb.m@...> wrote: > Looks like PS is around $600?? Ouch. No other alternatives? > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "F" <fred@...> > wrote: >> >> >> > I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR > camera). >> > Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with > PhotoShop? >> > Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be >> > appreciated ! >> >> I have the same DSLR and right now I use C1 Pro For processing > followed by a massive dose >> of CS3. The captures very open shadows are a problem for me. >> >> You can use LightRoom but with PS you will get much more control > of your images. >> >> Fred >> > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources > as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this > same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed > from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See \u201cGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\u201d in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \u201cOWNER\u201d AND > \u201cMODERATORS\u201d OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > \u201cOWNER\u201d AND \u201cMODERATORS\u201d OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; > (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
2008-03-02 by Michael-K
Start with Photoshop Elements. It's based specifically on Photoshop and has about 80% of the functionality; it also has a superb file organizer and a RAW converter built in. There is a "curves" plugin you can download to bring it even closer to Photoshop. Go to the bookstore and look through some of the training manuals for Elements and you'll get a better sense of it's depth (then buy one, Total Training offers a good one). Once you master Elements you'll be in a much better position to determine whether you need the full Photoshop. It's unfortunate that schools generally do not teach Elements but opt to teach Photoshop. Few students can afford PS and end up having to go into the school to use the school's copy. PS and Elements have so much depth that you really need your own copy and many, many hours to get up to speed. Oh, Elements costs roughly 1/10 of what PS costs; check Ebay. You can also download a fully functional demo from Adobe. Michael K [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2008-03-02 by Gary Weaver
Hey Michael, That's what I recommended for my photographer buddy. He's not a geek, teaches English, and had been using Elements v3 (v2?). Everyone suggested he get a 2400, a 4990, and CS2 - none of which I recommended. He don't like his B&W on the 2400 and when he scans, he makes a B&W print first and makes a reflective scan. What a total waste. gar *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 3/1/08 at 5:27 PM Michael-K wrote: >Start with Photoshop Elements. It's based specifically on Photoshop and >has about 80% of the functionality; it also has a superb file organizer >and a RAW converter built in. There is a "curves" plugin you can download >to bring it even closer to Photoshop. Go to the bookstore and look through >some of the training manuals for Elements and you'll get a better sense of >it's depth (then buy one, Total Training offers a good one). Once you >master Elements you'll be in a much better position to determine whether >you need the full Photoshop. It's unfortunate that schools generally do >not teach Elements but opt to teach Photoshop. Few students can afford PS >and end up having to go into the school to use the school's copy. PS and >Elements have so much depth that you really need your own copy and many, >many hours to get up to speed. Oh, Elements costs roughly 1/10 of what PS >costs; check Ebay. You can also download a fully functional demo from >Adobe. > > Michael K > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as >they are often being updated. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same >page. > >Please follow these basic guidelines: >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep >them short. >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >membership without notice. >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from >the membership. >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner >and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files >section: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND >�MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >�OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
2008-03-02 by Eric Neilsen
The knowledge that makes PS useful come from making prints in the darkroom, but tool required in the digital age is PS. And the most useful of those is PS CS3 extended. Knowledge without the tool, gets one no where and a less useful tool gets one less further down the path. I am fully aware of hardship of dollars, but here the ugly truth of progress is PS CS3. While it is true that much can be done with elements, the full version really allows one to explore creative thought rather than just "make it right". There are other programs that might work, but at a certain level, support and help go a long way toward completion of an idea and unlocking of the creative impulse. Eric Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 http://e.neilsen.home.att.net http://ericneilsenphotography.com Skype ejprinter
> -----Original Message----- > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary > Weaver > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:18 PM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: What Software to Use > > Actually, the knowledge to use PS is what's important. > > So, it's a matter of applying knowledge. I can dodge and burn at a > fraction of the cost on my pII-450 : ) > > gar > > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > > On 3/1/08 at 3:05 PM Eric Neilsen wrote: > > >If you ever? When does one NOT continue to manipulate an image after > >capture except after it is framed or some other final step? The only > images > >of mine that I don't do dodge, burn, etc are those table top set ups that > >I've shot in studio where lighting is absolutely controlled. That also > >occasionally hold true for portraiture, but I prefer to give the subject > >some room to roam in the frame and finish up later. Since I do all the > >printing I don't, or hardly ever, hand it of for someone else to print. > > > > > > > >A good editing program like PS is required at the very least with the > >elements package. > > > > > > > > > > > >Eric Neilsen Photography > > > >4101 Commerce Street > > > >Suite 9 > > > >Dallas, TX 75226 > > > >http://e.neilsen.home.att.net > > > >http://ericneilsenphotography.com > > > >Skype ejprinter > > > > _____ > > > >From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > >[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > >danielstaver > >Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:39 PM > >To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [Digital BW] Re: What Software to Use > > > > > > > >> I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). > >> Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? > >> Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be > >> appreciated ! > > > >I use both. Lightroom is fantastic for organizing large amounts of > >images. It also supports most global adjustments you'd normally want > >to do on an image. But if you ever find yourself wanting to apply > >something selectively to parts of the image, use layers, brushes, or > >use a photoshop plugin, you'll need Photoshop. Do check out Photoshop > >Elements. I haven't tried it myself, but people say it's very good and > >supports many of the same operations as Photoshop. > > > >Adobe has fully functional 30 day trials of both available for > >download. I recommend trying both. > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources > as > >they are often being updated. > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this > same > >page. > > > >Please follow these basic guidelines: > >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep > >them short. > >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > >membership without notice. > >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > >the membership. > >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > >and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files > >section: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > > >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND > >MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > >OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > >PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the > membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from > the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner > and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files > section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND > MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE > OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
2008-03-02 by Gary Weaver
No argument. But I and many others have no desire to become imaging junkies. I could be playing Pong or FreeCell : ) gar *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 3/1/08 at 9:47 PM Eric Neilsen wrote: >The knowledge that makes PS useful come from making prints in the >darkroom, >but tool required in the digital age is PS. And the most useful of those is >PS CS3 extended. Knowledge without the tool, gets one no where and a less >useful tool gets one less further down the path. I am fully aware of >hardship of dollars, but here the ugly truth of progress is PS CS3. While >it >is true that much can be done with elements, the full version really allows >one to explore creative thought rather than just "make it right". > >There are other programs that might work, but at a certain level, support >and help go a long way toward completion of an idea and unlocking of the >creative impulse. > > >Eric > >Eric Neilsen Photography >4101 Commerce Street >Suite 9 >Dallas, TX 75226 >http://e.neilsen.home.att.net >http://ericneilsenphotography.com >Skype ejprinter > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary >> Weaver >> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:18 PM >> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: What Software to Use >> >> Actually, the knowledge to use PS is what's important. >> >> So, it's a matter of applying knowledge. I can dodge and burn at a >> fraction of the cost on my pII-450 : ) >> >> gar >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** >> >> On 3/1/08 at 3:05 PM Eric Neilsen wrote: >> >> >If you ever? When does one NOT continue to manipulate an image after >> >capture except after it is framed or some other final step? The only >> images >> >of mine that I don't do dodge, burn, etc are those table top set ups >that >> >I've shot in studio where lighting is absolutely controlled. That also >> >occasionally hold true for portraiture, but I prefer to give the subject >> >some room to roam in the frame and finish up later. Since I do all the >> >printing I don't, or hardly ever, hand it of for someone else to print. >> > >> > >> > >> >A good editing program like PS is required at the very least with the >> >elements package. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Eric Neilsen Photography >> > >> >4101 Commerce Street >> > >> >Suite 9 >> > >> >Dallas, TX 75226 >> > >> >http://e.neilsen.home.att.net >> > >> >http://ericneilsenphotography.com >> > >> >Skype ejprinter >> > >> > _____ >> > >> >From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> >[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of >> >danielstaver >> >Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:39 PM >> >To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> >Subject: [Digital BW] Re: What Software to Use >> > >> > >> > >> >> I'm mainly going to do IR (got a D70 converted dedicated IR camera). >> >> Can I use LightRoom or do I need to go all the way with PhotoShop? >> >> Opinions? Insights? Experiences? Guidance? Your help will be >> >> appreciated ! >> > >> >I use both. Lightroom is fantastic for organizing large amounts of >> >images. It also supports most global adjustments you'd normally want >> >to do on an image. But if you ever find yourself wanting to apply >> >something selectively to parts of the image, use layers, brushes, or >> >use a photoshop plugin, you'll need Photoshop. Do check out Photoshop >> >Elements. I haven't tried it myself, but people say it's very good and >> >supports many of the same operations as Photoshop. >> > >> >Adobe has fully functional 30 day trials of both available for >> >download. I recommend trying both. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > >> >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources >> as >> >they are often being updated. >> > >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> > >> >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to >> >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this >> same >> >page. >> > >> >Please follow these basic guidelines: >> >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to >> keep >> >them short. >> >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. >> >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >> >membership without notice. >> >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W >> >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed >from >> >the membership. >> >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >> >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner >> >and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files >> >section: >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >> > >> >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >> >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND >> >MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO >> >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >> >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >> >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >> >OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN >> >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE >> >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >> >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; >(iii) >> >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >> >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >> >PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >> > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources >as >> they are often being updated. >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to >> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this >same >> page. >> >> Please follow these basic guidelines: >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to >keep >> them short. >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. >> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >> membership without notice. >> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W >> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from >> the membership. >> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner >> and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files >> section: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >> >> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND >> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO >> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN >> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE >> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) >> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >> PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > > >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as >they are often being updated. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same >page. > >Please follow these basic guidelines: >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep >them short. >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >membership without notice. >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from >the membership. >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner >and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files >section: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND >�MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >�OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
2008-03-02 by goldner_jeff
My $0.002 LR: I really like Lightroom because it makes more sense to the photographer in me (he's in there somewhere). I particularly liked how easy it was to select a group of images and convert them for other purposes (photo frames, facebook, etc.). UI is very good (not perfect yet). All edits on RAW get stuck in XMP files (you don't ever have to hit save) - if that's what you want, or you can store in their catalog. I'm neutral on that but it's a very fast and easy way to go. B&W conversion is very easy, split toning can be fun. BUT - no soft proofing and poor sharpening, and printing, well, let's say it sucks and since I decided to start printing my digital photos, that's the deal breaker. I let my demo expire. Maybe V2? PSE: I have used PS Elements since the free copy I got with my Rebel (and that was good for a big discount on PS). I have about 11,000 pictures fully cataloged and now I can easily find pictures of, say, my wife+her dog+snow for example and I do use that feature all the time. I'm sticking with it for organization and recently updated to version 6. It uses Camera Raw 4.x so as far as that goes, it has the same capabilities as PS. I like that I can launch PS easily and PSE makes a copy first without me having to think about it. UI is good to very good (set it to go directly to organizer). Downloader app for Windows is very good. Editor - like PS only less of it (which might be a good thing) but I rarely use it. It supports some plug-ins but I haven't experimented. I also haven't played with the "Sharing" feature but looks like it might be a winner. Bonus - Windows Vista Photo Gallery read most of the keywords and the ones it didn't get were probably due to a procedural problem long ago in PSE. Cons: Printing - nah, same reasons above (output sharpening, no soft proofing). PS CS3: Soft proofing, infinite sharpening possiblities (I use PhotoKit Sharpener because otherwise my head hurts), and finally printing with the latest HP driver. Since paper & ink are expensive, it's a good thing to take your time. And that's what it takes to learn the advanced editing capabilities. I don't think I can remove this from my workflow. Cons: Adobe Raw has better/easier tools like Grayscale conversion (same as LR) but once you jump to PS, it's different. Organizational capabilites? Stick to PSE - Bridge doesn't really do much. Have to keep track of file saves, need lots of system (memory, disk). UI - improving but still uniquely Adobe :( QImage: takes up the slack for PSE and LR as far as printing (and output sharpening) and soft proofing. If you can stand the inscrutable UI. It has the potential to make much better prints, and I saw (almost) true colors on one of my test prints for the first time on my older HP 7960. If you can figure out the various save/preset options, this can be a huge win if you have multiple printers or multiple papers (who doesn't)? Also excels for multiple prints in one shot (same or different sizes). I've also used Digital Image Pro (it's not terrible), but PSE6 is better for photo stuff. low cost route: PSE6 (about $80 unless you got it at Costco last month for $49) + QImage ($35-49). medium: LR but wait for the next version or buy QImage too. high cost route: PS CS3 + plug-ins. (Take advantage of the upgrade pricing from PSE if you can.)