Digital BW, The Print

I have been to a few exhibits lately and I am showing a few of my own 
pieces, and I am wondering what the consensus is (if any) on signing 
prints. 

I have seen the artist sign the mat below the print, but for pratical 
considerations, I do not want to do this, as I am offering prints for 
sale without the mat or frame. Or is it more common so sell matted 
prints?

I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for 
the print, effectively floating it. They sign the board to which the 
print is attached. This look tends to leave rather messy edges around 
the margins of the print (in my opinion), unless they are torn and 
that is the look one is going for.

I guess another alternative would be to sign the print directly, 
which seems to detract from the image, especially if you want a 
title. I suppose one could sign, title, and date the back, but it 
would rarely, if ever be seen.

Is there a consensus on this topic? i have yet to see a satisfactory 
method. 

Regards,

Paul G.

I either sign the mat or I print on large enough paper where I sign the
paper below the actual print then either sell just the print for the
customer to mat and frame or I cut a mat larger than the print so the title
and signature show. 

 

HTH,

Tom

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pglombick
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:50 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Signing Prints

 

I have been to a few exhibits lately and I am showing a few of my own 
pieces, and I am wondering what the consensus is (if any) on signing 
prints. 

I have seen the artist sign the mat below the print, but for pratical 
considerations, I do not want to do this, as I am offering prints for 
sale without the mat or frame. Or is it more common so sell matted 
prints?

I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for 
the print, effectively floating it. They sign the board to which the 
print is attached. This look tends to leave rather messy edges around 
the margins of the print (in my opinion), unless they are torn and 
that is the look one is going for.

I guess another alternative would be to sign the print directly, 
which seems to detract from the image, especially if you want a 
title. I suppose one could sign, title, and date the back, but it 
would rarely, if ever be seen.

Is there a consensus on this topic? i have yet to see a satisfactory 
method. 

Regards,

Paul G.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sign the back.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Mar 1, 2008, at 8:49 PM, pglombick wrote:

> I have been to a few exhibits lately and I am showing a few of my own
> pieces, and I am wondering what the consensus is (if any) on signing
> prints.
>
> I have seen the artist sign the mat below the print, but for pratical
> considerations, I do not want to do this, as I am offering prints for
> sale without the mat or frame. Or is it more common so sell matted
> prints?
>
> I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for
> the print, effectively floating it. They sign the board to which the
> print is attached. This look tends to leave rather messy edges around
> the margins of the print (in my opinion), unless they are torn and
> that is the look one is going for.
>
> I guess another alternative would be to sign the print directly,
> which seems to detract from the image, especially if you want a
> title. I suppose one could sign, title, and date the back, but it
> would rarely, if ever be seen.
>
> Is there a consensus on this topic? i have yet to see a satisfactory
> method.
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul G.
>

Your signature needs to be directly on the piece. I sign the front under the
image if on paper and on the back when on canvas. If the buyer wants to
reframe the piece to come right up to the image and hide the signature I
have no problem with that. Signing the matte only makes it possible that the
matte and print get separated at some point and it loses the proof of
origin. 

 

I think that as long as you feel good about the piece leaving your hands and
later being able to still associated with you as the creator, than you have
done your job. 

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pglombick
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 7:50 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Signing Prints

 

I have been to a few exhibits lately and I am showing a few of my own 
pieces, and I am wondering what the consensus is (if any) on signing 
prints. 

I have seen the artist sign the mat below the print, but for pratical 
considerations, I do not want to do this, as I am offering prints for 
sale without the mat or frame. Or is it more common so sell matted 
prints?

I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for 
the print, effectively floating it. They sign the board to which the 
print is attached. This look tends to leave rather messy edges around 
the margins of the print (in my opinion), unless they are torn and 
that is the look one is going for.

I guess another alternative would be to sign the print directly, 
which seems to detract from the image, especially if you want a 
title. I suppose one could sign, title, and date the back, but it 
would rarely, if ever be seen.

Is there a consensus on this topic? i have yet to see a satisfactory 
method. 

Regards,

Paul G.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Paul,

>I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for 
>the print, effectively floating it. 

This "floating mount" has been a common and widely used method for
fine art prints and preferred by collectors, dealers, etc for many
years.  Mat windows were cut bigger to provide a "reveal" all around
the print.  Besides looking elegant and 3-dimensional, the purposes
for this are related to showing all of the print: to reassure a buyer
that no damaged edges are hidden by the mat, that none of the
composition has been cropped out by the mat, and that exact print
dimensions can be verified.  Another benefit is the title and
signature (on the mount board under the print edge) are visible and
not on the window mat.  The only possible problem with that is if the
print is ever un-mounted and separated from the signature.


>They sign the board to which the print is attached. This look tends 
>to leave rather messy edges around the margins of the print (in my 
>opinion), unless they are torn and that is the look one is going for.

Used to be that dry mounting was the accepted practice with darkroom
prints.  Print borders were trimmed off and the print precisely
mounted on mat board.  Whether the edges are "messy" depends on the
skills of whoever does the mounting.  Good quality work isn't messy.

Today with ink printing everything is much easier.  Prints don't
buckle from being wet so dry mounting isn't needed.  Title and
signature can be on the print paper under the image edge, and the only
way they can be separated is for the border to be trimmed off. 
Because there's no dry mounting, the print can also be signed on the
back in case the border is ever trimmed off.  Window mats are still
cut to provide a reveal, so the 3-D effect is the same.  Plus, since
it's not mounted on a separate board, the entire process requires less
precision and goes much quicker (prints are hinged to the underside of
the window mat).

Especially since dry mounting was falling out of favor with
conservators, I view the current state of things as a huge
improvement.  Matting takes far less time than it used to and the
effect is the same.  

The only drawback to the new method is that because the print paper
shows in the reveal, the mat board must be carefully chosen to match
the paper color.  I'd rather deal with that than go back to dry
mounting. (anyone want to buy my Bogen 15" dry mount press?)

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak coming soon.

What about signing the back of the piece?

Megan

Eric Neilsen wrote:

>
> Your signature needs to be directly on the piece. I sign the front 
> under the
> image if on paper and on the back when on canvas. If the buyer wants to
> reframe the piece to come right up to the image and hide the signature I
> have no problem with that. Signing the matte only makes it possible 
> that the
> matte and print get separated at some point and it loses the proof of
> origin.
>
> I think that as long as you feel good about the piece leaving your 
> hands and
> later being able to still associated with you as the creator, than you 
> have
> done your job.
>

Sign the artwork/photograph. Signing the mat looks good, but in reframing, the signature is 
lost.

Megan, You can sign both. Also if you put a piece in a frame, with barrier
paper, etc, I also sign and label the back of the completed package. Clayton
made some very good points. The reveal and the color of matte I believe need
to compliment each other and for some that means match, for others it can be
used to add additional offset to the image. Like other framing decisions, it
just needs to look and feel good. : ) 

 

I know some artist that are running their inkjets through a second time and
allowing for the important printing info on the back. It gets the signature
there too.  

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Megan
Milligan
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 3:27 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Signing Prints

 

What about signing the back of the piece?

Megan

Eric Neilsen wrote:
>
> Your signature needs to be directly on the piece. I sign the front 
> under the
> image if on paper and on the back when on canvas. If the buyer wants to
> reframe the piece to come right up to the image and hide the signature I
> have no problem with that. Signing the matte only makes it possible 
> that the
> matte and print get separated at some point and it loses the proof of
> origin.
>
> I think that as long as you feel good about the piece leaving your 
> hands and
> later being able to still associated with you as the creator, than you 
> have
> done your job.
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I always sign the mat under the print, but I also emboss my logo on the  
paper the print is made on. This "chop mark" as it is called is a tried and true  
method used for fine prints (etchings, lithographs, etc.) and will always  
identify you as the artist.
S. Martin Friedman
 
www.smfgallery.com




**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do you guys typically sign in ink or pencil?  If in ink, what type of
pen or ink do you use?

When I sign the mat I use a number 2 pencil, if on the print or the back of
the print I use an ultra-fine Sharpie. If the mat is black I us a white pen
although in the case of a black mat I usually sign the print.

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TFielder
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:37 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

 

Do you guys typically sign in ink or pencil? If in ink, what type of
pen or ink do you use?

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Marty:

Embossing sounds like a simple and elegant method. Technically  
speaking, how do you do this?

Leslie Otterbein


On Mar 2, 2008, at 6:46 AM, MartyF2938@... wrote:

>
> I always sign the mat under the print, but I also emboss my logo on  
> the
> paper the print is made on. This "chop mark" as it is called is a  
> tried and true
> method used for fine prints (etchings, lithographs, etc.) and will  
> always
> identify you as the artist.
> S. Martin Friedman
>
> www.smfgallery.com

"There is a crack in every thing
(That's how the light gets in)"
Leonard Cohen

On 1-Mar-08, at 10:54 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

Hi Clayton...

>

> Used to be that dry mounting was the accepted practice with darkroom
> prints.  Print borders were trimmed off and the print precisely
> mounted on mat board.  Whether the edges are "messy" depends on the
> skills of whoever does the mounting.  Good quality work isn't messy.

One gallery here has only accepted the drymount approach for both  
digital and darkroom prints until recently, now adopting a more open  
attitude.. thankfully. Nothing hangs that is not precise (non-messy) <G>

>
> The only drawback to the new method is that because the print paper
> shows in the reveal, the mat board must be carefully chosen to match
> the paper color.

I don't believe it's a new method, to sign directly on the paper the  
image sits... old salt prints, gums, etc, that I've had the pleasure  
of seeing, have some of the artists sig directly on the paper the  
print resides. My Grandfather's turn of the century prints, etching,  
etc, are also signed this way.

Carolyn

--
http://www.carolynfrayn.com

On 2-Mar-08, at 2:27 AM, Megan Milligan wrote:

> What about signing the back of the piece?
>
> Megan

Hi Megan, It depends on presentation... I sign both if possible. If  
the print is matted, I sign the front, on the print paper under the  
image, as others have described. The mat is slightly larger than the  
printed image, showing the paper and the signature, title, edition  
number if editioned. However, if I frame to the edge of image, with  
or without mat, I sign the back of the print. If I show gloss paper  
(rarely), I sign the back. Whichever method is used, I adhere a small  
certificate to the back of the frame or mat (if sold unframed) with  
the relevant information. If prints are paneled, mounted to aluminum,  
or other media, I sign the back of the mount. Signing directly on the  
image itself is reserved for mixed media approaches.

Carolyn

--
http://www.carolynfrayn.com

Coincidently a friend just asked me the same question.  Here's my reply ...
 
The pen is a Pilot Drawing Pen - DR Pigment Ink in Black size 02 (other
thicknesses are available) -
http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp?code=111560
<blocked::http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp?code=111560&fam2=00100
6&fam3=001006006> &fam2=001006&fam3=001006006
Who knows how good or permanent it is - but it works well on glossy papers.
I bought it a my local stationery store.  I much prefer the more subtle
pencil on matte paper - but pencil is no good on glossy.  I did once try a
lighter grey pen but it looked horrid, not matching the tone of the print
ink and paper.
 
I sign on the white border just under the print - bottom r.h. corner. 
 
Steve Gledhill
 <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk> www.virtuallygrey.co.uk


  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TFielder
Sent: 02 March 2008 16:37
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints



Do you guys typically sign in ink or pencil? If in ink, what type of
pen or ink do you use?



 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Carolyn,

Nice to hear from you.  

>I don't believe it's a new method, to sign directly on the paper the  
>image sits... old salt prints, gums, etc, that I've had the pleasure  
>of seeing, have some of the artists sign directly on the paper the  
>print resides. My Grandfather's turn of the century prints, etching,  
>etc, are also signed this way.

Good point.  It's nice to be reminded of these other print arts.  I
was of course thinking just of darkroom print mounting practices of
recent years.  A related thing that seems never to surface in
discussions is that what we're doing, printing ink on paper, isn't new
either, just our way of doing it.  Photogravure comes to mind.  To me
it's sort of romantic to think that I am, in a way, doing something
ancient.  I like to emphasize that my prints are ink prints and are a
different medium than emulsion prints, but lots of people seem
uncomfortable with the "ink print" idea and don't want to mention it.

How are you printing these days?  My last BO machine bit the dust a
few months ago, so everything right now is K3/ABW on VFA and STA
(Innova Soft Texture Art - the best non-OBA matte paper I've found for
K3 ink).  I've tried most of the new fiber glossy papers, but nothing
rings my bell just yet.  Ilford GFS comes closest so far.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak

Who knows why these links get screwed up.  It went through perfectly to
another Yahoo Group.
 
Here it is again ...
 
If it doesn't come through this time try www.pilotpen.com then look for the
pen's descriptor "SW-DR".
 
 
<http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp?code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=00
1006006>
http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp?code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=001
006006
 
Steve Gledhill
www.virtuallygrey.co.uk <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello S. Martin Freidman,
You mention that you emboss your logo on the paper. Would you mind telling
what you are using to make the embossing? I have been trying to find the
best tool to make this emboss in heavy cotton paper but have not come up
with a good solution.
Thanks,
Gary Wagner

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
MartyF2938@...
  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:47 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints



  I always sign the mat under the print, but I also emboss my logo on the
  paper the print is made on. This "chop mark" as it is called is a tried
and true
  method used for fine prints (etchings, lithographs, etc.) and will always
  identify you as the artist.
  S. Martin Friedman

  www.smfgallery.com


  .
  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How do these pens work on fine art papers, with coated mat or  
textured surface? I'm thinking Hannemuhle papers - German Etching etc.

David Crosby
dcp2@...


On Mar 2, 2008, at 4:18 PM, stephengledhill wrote:

> Who knows why these links get screwed up. It went through perfectly to
> another Yahoo Group.
>
> Here it is again ...
>
> If it doesn't come through this time try www.pilotpen.com then look  
> for the
> pen's descriptor "SW-DR".
>
>
> <http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp? 
> code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=00
> 1006006>
> http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp? 
> code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=001
> 006006
>
> Steve Gledhill
> www.virtuallygrey.co.uk <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, I would like to add my 2 cents into this signing issue. I sell 
photographic prints and I get a pretty good price for a print. When I sell a print 
the buyer always wants me to sign the print. I will not sign a print on the 
front of the print and I dont want to emboss my prints. If people want my 
signiture on the front I will be more then happy to sign the matt of the print ( I 
matt and frame my work myself). In order to identify that a print is mine it 
still needs a signiture so I sign my prints on the back of the print using a #2 
pencile. My prints are all B&W fiber silver prints and the pencile is completely 
inactive with the print. I sign my name and I date the print and if the 
client wants a title I will title the print otherwise I dont title my work.   I 
also never mount my prints, I float them in the matt with acid free corners.   
Steve



**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, can't help ... I've only used them on the 'glossy' type papers.
 
Steve Gledhill
www.virtuallygrey.co.uk
 
------------------
How do these pens work on fine art papers, with coated mat or 
textured surface? I'm thinking Hannemuhle papers - German Etching etc.

David Crosby
<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=3702311/grpspId=1705019182/msgId
=91005/stime=1204513746/nc1=5008817/nc2=3848621/nc3=4507179> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Paul,

Since a few months I've changed the way I sign my prints.

I now run the print again (backside this time) through the printer and
print a signature text in small type (10 pt) which consist of my name,
address and website plus a copyright notice. Below that I hand sign
and date the print.

Cheers,
Andre

Hi Marty:

Embossing sounds like a simple and elegant method.  Technically 
speaking, how do you do this?

Leslie Otterbein
 
I use a simple hand embosser, the kind that would be used to imprint a  
corporate seal. I had mine made about 40 years ago when I was an active  
printmaker, and used it on my etchings. Today, I would recommend you contact a  company 
that makes seals for new corporations, or perhaps a large stationery  concern. 
You'll have to design a logo to be used and have  positive and  negative 
plates made which would fit into the hand embosser. It's then simple to  insert 
your paper and squeeze the embosser to imprint the design.
 
Hope this helps,
 
Marty
 
www.smfgallery.com



**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.      
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the reply, Steve. Does anyone have a solution for signing  
textured and smooth mat finish art papers on the coated side?

David Crosby
dcp2@...


On Mar 3, 2008, at 4:12 AM, stephengledhill wrote:

> Sorry, can't help ... I've only used them on the 'glossy' type papers.
>
> Steve Gledhill
> www.virtuallygrey.co.uk
>
> ------------------
> How do these pens work on fine art papers, with coated mat or
> textured surface? I'm thinking Hannemuhle papers - German Etching etc.
>
> David Crosby
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=3702311/ 
> grpspId=1705019182/msgId
> =91005/stime=1204513746/nc1=5008817/nc2=3848621/nc3=4507179>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes.  I sign my prints on both textured and smooth matte surface prints with
a 2B pencil.  I find it perfect.  It's very subtle.  If clients want to put
a mat over the signature, that's fine.

Josh


On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 8:21 AM, David Crosby <dcp2@...> wrote:

> Thanks for the reply, Steve. Does anyone have a solution for signing
> textured and smooth mat finish art papers on the coated side?
>
> David Crosby
> dcp2@...
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That simple, huh! I'll give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion.

David Crosby

On Mar 3, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Josh Hackney wrote:

> Yes. I sign my prints on both textured and smooth matte surface  
> prints with
> a 2B pencil. I find it perfect. It's very subtle. If clients want  
> to put
> a mat over the signature, that's fine.
>
> Josh
>
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 8:21 AM, David Crosby <dcp2@...>  
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the reply, Steve. Does anyone have a solution for signing
> > textured and smooth mat finish art papers on the coated side?
> >
> > David Crosby
> > dcp2@earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

Sorry to butt in but when the embosser was mentioned, I wondered about the "relaxability" of heavy cotton paper.

I'm probably way off base :  )

I also wondered about a beeswax imprint.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/3/08 at 9:19 AM MartyF2938@... wrote:

>Hi Marty:
>
>Embossing sounds like a simple and elegant method.  Technically 
>speaking, how do you do this?
>
>Leslie Otterbein
> 
>I use a simple hand embosser, the kind that would be used to imprint a  
>corporate seal. I had mine made about 40 years ago when I was an active  
>printmaker, and used it on my etchings. Today, I would recommend you
>contact a  company 
>that makes seals for new corporations, or perhaps a large stationery 
>concern. 
>You'll have to design a logo to be used and have  positive and  negative 
>plates made which would fit into the hand embosser. It's then simple to 
>insert 
>your paper and squeeze the embosser to imprint the design.
> 
>Hope this helps,
> 
>Marty
> 
>www.smfgallery.com
>
>
>
>**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.    
> 
>(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
>2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
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>

"When I sign the mat I use a number 2 pencil, if on the print or the 
back of the print I use an ultra-fine Sharpie."

----

I would not use Sharpie, as they are prone to fading. My wife created a 
piece of art in the form of her hand blown up to a huge size on canvas. 
The hand is white surrounded by black. The texture of the hand - every 
single line of her hand and finger prints and all the folds and texture 
of the skin - are written in as very small sentences which form a 
diary. Unfortunately, she wrote the diary in with a fine Sharpie and it 
is fading very badly.

Instead, I would use a black pigment ink-based drafting pen, such as 
Staedler.

Paul G.

Hello,
Has anyone recently purchased an embosser of this type to use on heavy
cotton paper? I am looking for a brand name or purchase source of a type
known to work well.
Thanks,
Gary Wagner

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
MartyF2938@...
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 6:20 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints


  Hi Marty:

  Embossing sounds like a simple and elegant method. Technically
  speaking, how do you do this?

  Leslie Otterbein

  I use a simple hand embosser, the kind that would be used to imprint a
  corporate seal. I had mine made about 40 years ago when I was an active
  printmaker, and used it on my etchings. Today, I would recommend you
contact a company
  that makes seals for new corporations, or perhaps a large stationery
concern.

  .
  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gary-
I'd contact the company that makes them.  Like he said, a place that 
makes notary seals.

I would send them a sample to emboss and send back.

My suggestion is the desktop version rather than hand held.  More 
pressure and truly vertical in use.

Seth

<gcwagner@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Has anyone recently purchased an embosser of this type to use on 
heavy
> cotton paper? I am looking for a brand name or purchase source of a 
type
> known to work well.
> Thanks,
> Gary Wagner
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
> MartyF2938@...
>   Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 6:20 AM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints
> 
> 
>   Hi Marty:
> 
>   Embossing sounds like a simple and elegant method. Technically
>   speaking, how do you do this?
> 
>   Leslie Otterbein
> 
>   I use a simple hand embosser, the kind that would be used to 
imprint a
>   corporate seal. I had mine made about 40 years ago when I was an 
active
>   printmaker, and used it on my etchings. Today, I would recommend 
you
> contact a company
>   that makes seals for new corporations, or perhaps a large 
stationery

> concern.
> 
>   .
>   
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

This is a pretty good site for embossers although I'm sure that there are many others.
   
  http://www.customembossers.com/




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great site and prices too. Thanks for the link.

I am wondering what style of embossing do you use for your prints?
Circular with logo or the text only stationery style?

I was thinking of :

© First Name Last Name
www.websiteurl.com

to make it not too intrusive.

Do you emboss the reverse (so it can be read on the verso) or the
front? I know it'll be visible from both side... :)

Thanks again

Denis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Harold Jackson
<harold@...> wrote:
>
> This is a pretty good site for embossers although I'm sure that
there are many others.

>    
>   http://www.customembossers.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

When making prints for signing, as single prints or part of an edition, how
do you folks handle margin sizes, i.e. what size margins do you leave top
and bottom for signing with enough room to allow a white margin inside the
mat ?

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You might also try a Staedtler technical pen. You can get a set with the pen
holder and three refills of different nib sizes for about $ 20 at places
like Michael's. Find yourself a 40% coupon in your Sunday paper and you can
do even better. J Works well on most papers and is permanent.

 

My PhotoShelter Collection : http://psc.photoshelter.com/user/briancorll 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
Crosby
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:28 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

 

How do these pens work on fine art papers, with coated mat or 
textured surface? I'm thinking Hannemuhle papers - German Etching etc.

David Crosby
dcp2@... <mailto:dcp2%40earthlink.net> 

On Mar 2, 2008, at 4:18 PM, stephengledhill wrote:

> Who knows why these links get screwed up. It went through perfectly to
> another Yahoo Group.
>
> Here it is again ...
>
> If it doesn't come through this time try www.pilotpen.com then look 
> for the
> pen's descriptor "SW-DR".
>
>
> <http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp? 
> code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=00
> 1006006>
> http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp? 
> code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=001
> 006006
>
> Steve Gledhill
> www.virtuallygrey.co.uk <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Brian, I will give that a try. I have been using the Staedter  
Pigment Liner drawing pens in various sizes. They work very well on  
coated mat papers,  but poorly on textured ones.

David Crosby

On Mar 4, 2008, at 11:23 PM, Brian Corll wrote:

> You might also try a Staedtler technical pen. You can get a set  
> with the pen
> holder and three refills of different nib sizes for about $ 20 at  
> places
> like Michael's. Find yourself a 40% coupon in your Sunday paper and  
> you can
> do even better. J Works well on most papers and is permanent.
>
> My PhotoShelter Collection : http://psc.photoshelter.com/user/ 
> briancorll
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> David
> Crosby
> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:28 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints
>
> How do these pens work on fine art papers, with coated mat or
> textured surface? I'm thinking Hannemuhle papers - German Etching etc.
>
> David Crosby
> dcp2@... <mailto:dcp2%40earthlink.net>
>
> On Mar 2, 2008, at 4:18 PM, stephengledhill wrote:
>
> > Who knows why these links get screwed up. It went through  
> perfectly to
> > another Yahoo Group.
> >
> > Here it is again ...
> >
> > If it doesn't come through this time try www.pilotpen.com then look
> > for the
> > pen's descriptor "SW-DR".
> >
> >
> > <http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp?
> > code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=00
> > 1006006>
> > http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp?
> > code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=001
> > 006006
> >
> > Steve Gledhill
> > www.virtuallygrey.co.uk <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/>
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I discovered that Sharpie Paint markers (Extra Fine Point) work pretty
well when signing on gloss papers. They come in a various colors and
are inexpensive.

Dave.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, David Crosby
<dcp2@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks, Brian, I will give that a try. I have been using the Staedter  
> Pigment Liner drawing pens in various sizes. They work very well on  
> coated mat papers,  but poorly on textured ones.
> 
> David Crosby
> 
> On Mar 4, 2008, at 11:23 PM, Brian Corll wrote:
> 
> > You might also try a Staedtler technical pen. You can get a set  
> > with the pen
> > holder and three refills of different nib sizes for about $ 20 at  
> > places
> > like Michael's. Find yourself a 40% coupon in your Sunday paper and  
> > you can
> > do even better. J Works well on most papers and is permanent.
> >
> > My PhotoShelter Collection : http://psc.photoshelter.com/user/ 
> > briancorll
> >
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> > David
> > Crosby
> > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:28 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints
> >
> > How do these pens work on fine art papers, with coated mat or
> > textured surface? I'm thinking Hannemuhle papers - German Etching etc.
> >
> > David Crosby
> > dcp2@... <mailto:dcp2%40earthlink.net>
> >
> > On Mar 2, 2008, at 4:18 PM, stephengledhill wrote:
> >
> > > Who knows why these links get screwed up. It went through  
> > perfectly to
> > > another Yahoo Group.
> > >
> > > Here it is again ...
> > >
> > > If it doesn't come through this time try www.pilotpen.com then look
> > > for the
> > > pen's descriptor "SW-DR".
> > >
> > >
> > > <http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp?
> > > code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=00
> > > 1006006>
> > > http://www.pilotpen.eu/products/detail2.asp?
> > > code=111560&fam2=001006&fam3=001
> > > 006006
> > >
> > > Steve Gledhill
> > > www.virtuallygrey.co.uk <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/>
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

But Sharpies fade to light brown. They are permanent only that they  
will never fade away completely, but it will look not so great later.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Mar 6, 2008, at 10:20 AM, ausdlk wrote:

> I discovered that Sharpie Paint markers (Extra Fine Point) work pretty
> well when signing on gloss papers. They come in a various colors and
> are inexpensive.
>
> Dave.
>
>
> --


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm using the PAINT Sharpies, no ink to fade.

They come in several colors: Metallic Gold, Metallic Silver, White,
and Black.

Dave.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:

>
> But Sharpies fade to light brown. They are permanent only that they  
> will never fade away completely, but it will look not so great later.
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> On Mar 6, 2008, at 10:20 AM, ausdlk wrote:
> 
> > I discovered that Sharpie Paint markers (Extra Fine Point) work pretty
> > well when signing on gloss papers. They come in a various colors and
> > are inexpensive.
> >
> > Dave.
> >
> >
> > --
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

When matting with a reveal so that the mounting method must be concealed,
how are you folks attaching your prints to the mounting board ? Linen tape
hinges ? Some other method ? I'm used to mats which conceal the edges where
I can use tape flat right at them margins or acetate corners.

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clayton
Jones
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 12:54 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

 

Hello Paul,

>I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for 
>the print, effectively floating it. 

This "floating mount" has been a common and widely used method for
fine art prints and preferred by collectors, dealers, etc for many
years. Mat windows were cut bigger to provide a "reveal" all around
the print. Besides looking elegant and 3-dimensional, the purposes
for this are related to showing all of the print: to reassure a buyer
that no damaged edges are hidden by the mat, that none of the
composition has been cropped out by the mat, and that exact print
dimensions can be verified. Another benefit is the title and
signature (on the mount board under the print edge) are visible and
not on the window mat. The only possible problem with that is if the
print is ever un-mounted and separated from the signature.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Brian,

>When matting with a reveal so that the mounting method must be
>concealed, how are you folks attaching your prints to the mounting 
>board? Linen tape hinges? Some other method? I'm used to mats which 
>conceal the edges where I can use tape flat right at them margins or 
>acetate corners.

In dry-mounting days, by necessity the prints were fixed to the mount
board.  This required very precise positioning so the reveal would be
even on all sides within the window mat.  Without dry-mounting it
becomes much easier because the print can be attached to the back of
the window mat.  Getting the reveal just right is quick and easy.

I position the print face up under the mat (with the top edge sticking
out over the edge of a table) and fasten it temporarily in place with
two small pieces of white artist's tape (similar to masking tape but
peels off easily without harming the paper) at the two top corners. 
Then I turn it over face down and use two pieces of 1.25" wide linen
tape (just 2 or 3 inches long) at the top of the print.  These are
placed more towards the corners to provide good lateral stability. 
Then the artist's tape is removed.  The print basically hangs from the
top edge and is free to adjust to any dimensional shifts that might
occur from changes in humidity, avoiding possible buckling.  Finally,
I use the linen tape again to hinge the back board to the window mat
(at the top). I trim the print borders enough so the print hinge and
the back board hinge don't overlap.  For smaller prints I use 1" tape.

For both the window mat and back board I use acid free 4-ply board. 
This makes a good supportive "sandwich" which fits very nicely into a
clearbag, neither too thick nor too thin.

I use a self-adhesive acid free linen tape made by Lineco (L533-1015).


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.0 coming soon




For digital prints that don't need to be

Brian, Are you printing right to the edges of the paper? Or floating the
image with wider borders? Floating the image allows you to use the reveal
showing the paper white around as well as what paper white is for that
paper. You might end up with smaller images or bigger printers : ) 

 

Using that technique I have not had to worry about either dry mount, linen
hinge, or that very rarely used acetate corner.  Print size does matter as
well as how much paper you keep behind the matte. 

 

Eric 

 

Eric Neilsen Photo

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214 827-8301

 

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

SKype ejprinter

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Corll
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:29 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

 

When matting with a reveal so that the mounting method must be concealed,
how are you folks attaching your prints to the mounting board ? Linen tape
hinges ? Some other method ? I'm used to mats which conceal the edges where
I can use tape flat right at them margins or acetate corners.

From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clayton
Jones
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 12:54 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

Hello Paul,

>I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for 
>the print, effectively floating it. 

This "floating mount" has been a common and widely used method for
fine art prints and preferred by collectors, dealers, etc for many
years. Mat windows were cut bigger to provide a "reveal" all around
the print. Besides looking elegant and 3-dimensional, the purposes
for this are related to showing all of the print: to reassure a buyer
that no damaged edges are hidden by the mat, that none of the
composition has been cropped out by the mat, and that exact print
dimensions can be verified. Another benefit is the title and
signature (on the mount board under the print edge) are visible and
not on the window mat. The only possible problem with that is if the
print is ever un-mounted and separated from the signature.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK - so you're not "revealing" the edges of the prints, right ? As is done
with some fine art prints on deckle-edged or handmade papers, for instance.
That's what I was visualizing. I leave a healthy border, at least 1",
sometimes 2 or more.

 

--------------------------------

Brian Corll

Brian Corll, Inc.

1002 East Simpson Street

Mechanicsburg, PA 17055

Tel. (717) 691-0286

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of E Neilsen
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 2:11 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

 

Brian, Are you printing right to the edges of the paper? Or floating the
image with wider borders? Floating the image allows you to use the reveal
showing the paper white around as well as what paper white is for that
paper. You might end up with smaller images or bigger printers : ) 

Using that technique I have not had to worry about either dry mount, linen
hinge, or that very rarely used acetate corner. Print size does matter as
well as how much paper you keep behind the matte. 

Eric 

Eric Neilsen Photo

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214 827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

SKype ejprinter

_____ 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Brian
Corll
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:29 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

When matting with a reveal so that the mounting method must be concealed,
how are you folks attaching your prints to the mounting board ? Linen tape
hinges ? Some other method ? I'm used to mats which conceal the edges where
I can use tape flat right at them margins or acetate corners.

From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Clayton
Jones
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 12:54 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

Hello Paul,

>I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for 
>the print, effectively floating it. 

This "floating mount" has been a common and widely used method for
fine art prints and preferred by collectors, dealers, etc for many
years. Mat windows were cut bigger to provide a "reveal" all around
the print. Besides looking elegant and 3-dimensional, the purposes
for this are related to showing all of the print: to reassure a buyer
that no damaged edges are hidden by the mat, that none of the
composition has been cropped out by the mat, and that exact print
dimensions can be verified. Another benefit is the title and
signature (on the mount board under the print edge) are visible and
not on the window mat. The only possible problem with that is if the
print is ever un-mounted and separated from the signature.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you are going to show edges of the paper, then I mount it on top of a
piece of foam core or 8 ply and it is hinged on the back.

 

Eric Neilsen Photo

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214 827-8301

 

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

SKype ejprinter

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Corll
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 2:12 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

 

OK - so you're not "revealing" the edges of the prints, right ? As is done
with some fine art prints on deckle-edged or handmade papers, for instance.
That's what I was visualizing. I leave a healthy border, at least 1",
sometimes 2 or more.

--------------------------------

Brian Corll

Brian Corll, Inc.

1002 East Simpson Street

Mechanicsburg, PA 17055

Tel. (717) 691-0286

From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of E Neilsen
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 2:11 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

Brian, Are you printing right to the edges of the paper? Or floating the
image with wider borders? Floating the image allows you to use the reveal
showing the paper white around as well as what paper white is for that
paper. You might end up with smaller images or bigger printers : ) 

Using that technique I have not had to worry about either dry mount, linen
hinge, or that very rarely used acetate corner. Print size does matter as
well as how much paper you keep behind the matte. 

Eric 

Eric Neilsen Photo

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214 827-8301

http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> hotography.com

SKype ejprinter

_____ 

From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Brian
Corll
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:29 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

When matting with a reveal so that the mounting method must be concealed,
how are you folks attaching your prints to the mounting board ? Linen tape
hinges ? Some other method ? I'm used to mats which conceal the edges where
I can use tape flat right at them margins or acetate corners.

From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogrou <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
<mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogrou <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
<mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Clayton
Jones
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 12:54 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogrou <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
<mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints

Hello Paul,

>I have also seen artists use a mat that has an opening too large for 
>the print, effectively floating it. 

This "floating mount" has been a common and widely used method for
fine art prints and preferred by collectors, dealers, etc for many
years. Mat windows were cut bigger to provide a "reveal" all around
the print. Besides looking elegant and 3-dimensional, the purposes
for this are related to showing all of the print: to reassure a buyer
that no damaged edges are hidden by the mat, that none of the
composition has been cropped out by the mat, and that exact print
dimensions can be verified. Another benefit is the title and
signature (on the mount board under the print edge) are visible and
not on the window mat. The only possible problem with that is if the
print is ever un-mounted and separated from the signature.

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During this discussion of signing and mounting prints the term "reveal" has come up several times. In reading these posts I've managed to get confused as to what the "reveal" actually is and I'm wondering if everyone is using the term consistently. How about a few explanations to clarify this term? Thanks.
   
  Michael K 


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My definition of 'reveal':
 
It's the paper base white 'revealed' between the edge of the printed image
and the cut edge of the bevelled mat.
 
Steve Gledhill
www.virtuallygrey.co.uk <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/> 


  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael-K
Sent: 10 March 2008 17:06
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints



During this discussion of signing and mounting prints the term "reveal" has
come up several times. In reading these posts I've managed to get confused
as to what the "reveal" actually is and I'm wondering if everyone is using
the term consistently. How about a few explanations to clarify this term?
Thanks.

Michael K 

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Michael, I think the term has been consistent. An interpretation of that term appeared to be off to me. Reveal : to show. This is where you can see what is below. Seeing the edges can be shown with the reveal, or it can be just the paper. I certainly have been using reveal as to show show what is below and when I mean to show the edges of the paper that is explicitly spelled out. I would even call that a shadow reveal or complete reveal. It needs to include the description of what is being revealed. 

I have seen silver gelatin prints, trimmed to edges of the image so that a print on a 16x20 might turn out to be 15.1 x 18.6. this would be mounted and shown to reveal the whole image and the mount board. I have also seen an image printed on a 16x20 piece of paper, where the image is hinged or corner mounted to reveal the paper white on the edges where the image is also 15.1 x 18.6 with a reveal to again show the paper the images is on but this time it is the photo paper and NOT the mount board.   I typically have only seen alt photo prints mount in a complete reveal, paper edges, mount on a board in a RELIEF type mount where light can spill around the paper the image is on to create a drop shadow. With this mounting the mount board is also relieved with the same or greater thickness to make the depth show. 


Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
214-827-8301
http://www.ericneilsenphotography.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Michael-K 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 12:05 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Signing Prints


  During this discussion of signing and mounting prints the term "reveal" has come up several times. In reading these posts I've managed to get confused as to what the "reveal" actually is and I'm wondering if everyone is using the term consistently. How about a few explanations to clarify this term? Thanks.

  Michael K 

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Hello Michael,

>During this discussion of signing and mounting prints the term 
>"reveal" has come up several times. In reading these posts I've 
>managed to get confused as to what the "reveal" actually is and I'm
>wondering if everyone is using the term consistently. How about a 
>few explanations to clarify this term? Thanks.

My understanding of it is the same as Eric's, that it can apply to 
both trimmed borders, common when dry-mounting emulsion prints, and
non-trimmed borders with fully revealed image, more common today with
digital prints not dry-mounted.

In an earlier post I mentioned that ensuring that no damaged print
edges are hidden by the mat as one reason buyers/dealers like this way
of matting (as well as ensuring the image is not cropped by the mat
and the image dimensions being verifiable).  These are things I heard
discussed years ago in my darkroom days.

I'm wondering if with today's common approach of the print paper's
edge being covered makes any difference to buyers and dealers.  With
the image fully revealed the other two things are still ensurable.  
Has anyone had any feedback from dealers or gallery owners about this?


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.0 coming soon

I have entered numerous art exhibits/competition and I have used the "reveal" method for years. I have always received positive comments own how "professional" my prints/matting looks from the jurors. I have tried both methods and from my sales, the reveal method sales better for me. Also the gallery owners where I sell my prints seem to prefer the "reveal" method. I have been doing this for over thirty years. Also Ansel Adams and John Sexton used this method. Thanks,
  Wayne Wrights 

       
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