Digital BW, The Print

I always sign my prints, but then I cut an overmat with opening 
slightly smaller than the printed image.  I also sign the mat.

But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the print, 
and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature on 
the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around the 
rest of the print.

I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to 
prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print 
(with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).

So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here 
... what do you do, and why?

Arthur Fink

	A r t h u r  .  F i n k  .  P h o t o g r a p h y
	-------------------------------------------------
	Ten New Island Avenue         . land 207.766.5722
	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     . cell 207.615.5722
	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  . af@...

	More dance images  www.f64gallery.com/arthur.html
                    www.arthurfinkphoto.com/BatesShow2007


	"Dance Distraction -- An outbreak of movement in an unusual or 
choreographically
	 under-used location, especially ... spontaneous frolic evoking a 
joyous response."

Arthur,

As a novice preparing framed b&w inkjet prints for his first 
exhibition I have many more questions to ask than a professional 
such as yourself. 

I have learned that galleries have their preferences, museums 
theirs, jurried competitions theirs--also, consumers may not only 
want things signed but may also want a title as well. 

For a fine-art photography exhibition I would like to single matte 
with the matte overlapping the print 1/16th to 1/8th inch. I would 
prefer to not put a title or signature on the matte. Instead, I 
would sign and give info on the back of the foam core in addition to 
a small description on a piece of foam core beside each framed 
photo.   

So, like you Arthur, I am asking,  What do people do and why?

Rudy
_________________________________
Rudy Ternbach
South Hadley, MAsstts

---------------------Original Message-----------------------------

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink 
<af@...> wrote:
>
> I always sign my prints, but then I cut an overmat with opening 
> slightly smaller than the printed image.  I also sign the mat.
> 
> But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the 
print, 
> and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature 
on 
> the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around the 
> rest of the print.
> 
> I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to 
> prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print 
> (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).
> 
> So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here 
> ... what do you do, and why?
> 
> Arthur Fink
> 
> 	A r t h u r  .  F i n k  .  P h o t o g r a p h y
> 	-------------------------------------------------
> 	Ten New Island Avenue         . land 207.766.5722
> 	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     . cell 207.615.5722
> 	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  . af@...
> 
> 	More dance images  www.f64gallery.com/arthur.html
>                     www.arthurfinkphoto.com/BatesShow2007
> 
> 
> 	"Dance Distraction -- An outbreak of movement in an unusual 
or 
> choreographically
> 	 under-used location, especially ... spontaneous frolic 
evoking a 
> joyous response."
>

Arthur,

It just depends on your emphasis.  Cropped images seem most
appropriate for informal art and for advertising, editorial, etc.. 
Showing the edges of an image (even if it has been cropped by the
artist in process)and sometimes showing the edges of fine paper as
well,particularly deckled edges), is a sensual, classy approach that
presents the entire piece.  It's more of a museum approach.

Signing the mat has always seemed silly to me because the mat isn't
art.  Ah, well.
 
Yvonne Muller  www.yvonnemuller.com 

........

> > 
> > But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the 
> print, 
> > and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature 
> on 
> > the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around the 
> > rest of the print.
> > 
> > I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to 
> > prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print 
> > (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).
> > 
> > So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here 
> > ... what do you do, and why?
> > 
> > Arthur Fink
> > 
> > 	A r t h u r  .  F i n k  .  P h o t o g r a p h y
> > 	-------------------------------------------------
> > 	Ten New Island Avenue         . land 207.766.5722
> > 	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     . cell 207.615.5722
> > 	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  . af@
> > 
> > 	More dance images  www.f64gallery.com/arthur.html
> >                     www.arthurfinkphoto.com/BatesShow2007
> > 
> > 
> > 	"Dance Distraction -- An outbreak of movement in an unusual 
> or 
> > choreographically
> > 	 under-used location, especially ... spontaneous frolic 
> evoking a 
> > joyous response."
> >
>

Arthur Fink wrote:

> I always sign my prints, but then I cut an overmat with opening 
> slightly smaller than the printed image.  I also sign the mat.

This is what I do, particularly if the paper is brightened.  I think 
a bright paper margin pulls the eye out of the image.  The eye being 
attracted to the brightest spots is one of the compositional tools I 
(and I suspecnt most) routinely use.  

With un-brightened papers I do often have a paper border with 
signature showing. 

Frankly, it's also just easier to overmat the image a bit.  A margin 
that is not even really bothers (the Monk in) me.  Mat cutting being 
less than perfect adds to the frustration.   
 
> But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the print,

Numbering is a whole different debate.  I no longer do that either.

> and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the 
> signature on the print shows.  ...
> I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to 
> prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print 
> (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).

I'm with you.  I think overmatting the image a bit just looks better.

I've noticed a trend to doing this more in the museums and galleries 
I visit.  (The A. Adams family was a bit upset when a local museum 
overmatted AA's signature on a display of some of the family's 
collection of his prints.)

Paul    
www.PaulRoark.com

Yvonne,

Thanks for the additional viewpoint you have added to this thread.
Granted, what follows may just be the opinion of a novice with more 
opinions than experience but here goes anyway:

Showing the edges of a print is a respected tradition which pre-
dates photography and which I have done on the few occassions that 
I've contributed etchings to group shows. Protecting a print that 
has ample margins all around(un-matted, un-mounted, un-framed) 
behind glass or plexi and hanging with minimal hardware is, I feel,a 
less adulterated method of presentation but not one which is 
preferred in most venues. to further complicate this, etchings and 
monotypes, as you probably know quite well, are usually signed and 
titled in the print margin but may artists sign within the 
borders of the image instead of in the margin.

It appears that the manner of presentation which an individual 
artist chooses is dependent on a wide variety of factors not to 
mention the artist's mood at the time and the traditions she/he 
chooses to follow.  The question remains: What do people do and why?

Regards,

Rudy
__________________________________
Rudy Ternbach
South Hadley, MAsstts
    

-----------------Original Message-----------------------
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Yvonne Muller" 
<bellvale@...> wrote:
>
> Arthur,
> 
> It just depends on your emphasis.  Cropped images seem most
> appropriate for informal art and for advertising, editorial, etc.. 
> Showing the edges of an image (even if it has been cropped by the
> artist in process)and sometimes showing the edges of fine paper as
> well,particularly deckled edges), is a sensual, classy approach 
that
> presents the entire piece.  It's more of a museum approach.
> 
> Signing the mat has always seemed silly to me because the mat isn't
> art.  Ah, well.
>  
> Yvonne Muller  www.yvonnemuller.com 
> 
> ........
> > > 
> > > But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the 
> > print, 
> > > and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the 
signature 
> > on 
> > > the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around 
the 
> > > rest of the print.
> > > 
> > > I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend 
to 
> > > prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the 
print 
> > > (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).
> > > 
> > > So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking 
here 

> > > ... what do you do, and why?
> > > 
> > > Arthur Fink
> > > 
> > > 	A r t h u r  .  F i n k  .  P h o t o g r a p h y
> > > 	-------------------------------------------------
> > > 	Ten New Island Avenue         . land 207.766.5722
> > > 	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     . cell 207.615.5722
> > > 	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  . af@
> > > 
> > > 	More dance images  www.f64gallery.com/arthur.html
> > >                     www.arthurfinkphoto.com/BatesShow2007
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 	"Dance Distraction -- An outbreak of movement in an unusual 
> > or 
> > > choreographically
> > > 	 under-used location, especially ... spontaneous frolic 
> > evoking a 
> > > joyous response."
> > >
> >
>

When you show the edges of an image, do you print a thin line around the
image area to separate where the image stops?  I've wondered about this,
particularly when the image has a white or light colored background.

~angelique

On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Yvonne Muller <bellvale@...>
wrote:

> Arthur,
>
> It just depends on your emphasis.  Cropped images seem most
> appropriate for informal art and for advertising, editorial, etc..
> Showing the edges of an image (even if it has been cropped by the
> artist in process)and sometimes showing the edges of fine paper as
> well,particularly deckled edges), is a sensual, classy approach that
> presents the entire piece.  It's more of a museum approach.
>
> Signing the mat has always seemed silly to me because the mat isn't
> art.  Ah, well.
>
> Yvonne Muller  www.yvonnemuller.com
>
> ........
> > >
> > > But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the
> > print,
> > > and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature
> > on
> > > the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around the
> > > rest of the print.
> > >
> > > I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to
> > > prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print
> > > (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).
> > >
> > > So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here
> > > ... what do you do, and why?
> > >
> > > Arthur Fink
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Arthur,

>But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the print, 
>and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature 
>on the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around the 
>rest of the print.
>I'm told that galleries prefer this...

I remember these questions being asked years ago when I got started. 
I was told that this was called a floating mount and has been the
gallery/vintage print dealer preference for a lot of years.  If I
remember the reasons correctly it goes something like this:

1) Image is not cropped by the mat, the idea being that the the
photographer's intended composition is shown and has not been changed
by some later mat cutter's preference.

2) In the case of a trimmed dry mounted print, ensures that no damaged
print edges are hidden by the mat.

3) Exact dimensions of the image can be verified.

4) Assuming there is a signature outside the border of the image
(either on the mount board of a dry mounted print or a print that has
some border remaining), the signature is visible and stays with the
print, even if the mat is later discarded.


> So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here 
>... what do you do, and why?

I continue to use the floating mount with my ink prints, but not dry
mounted (dry mounting was necessary for emulsion prints because they
curled).  Why?  I guess because it looks very elegant and professional
to me.  I like having a title and signature showing in the reveal
area (I don't like signing mats and not all prints I sell are matted).
 It's also a lot easier without dry mounting because the print can
be hinge-taped to the underside of the mat.  

 
Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm

Hi Angelique. I generally print a single pixel line around most
images. It is not noticeable without a loop. I think that it helps
define and sharpen a space. I don't allow paper white areas to fall
out of the image and only very small highly specular points even
inside the image. Very bright highlights might be only subtly darker
but they are never paper white.

Regards
Duane



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Angelique
Raptakis" <petakinethi@...> wrote:

>
> When you show the edges of an image, do you print a thin line around the
> image area to separate where the image stops?  I've wondered about this,
> particularly when the image has a white or light colored background.
> 
> ~angelique
> 
> On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Yvonne Muller <bellvale@...>
> wrote:
> 
> > Arthur,
> >
> > It just depends on your emphasis.  Cropped images seem most
> > appropriate for informal art and for advertising, editorial, etc..
> > Showing the edges of an image (even if it has been cropped by the
> > artist in process)and sometimes showing the edges of fine paper as
> > well,particularly deckled edges), is a sensual, classy approach that
> > presents the entire piece.  It's more of a museum approach.
> >
> > Signing the mat has always seemed silly to me because the mat isn't
> > art.  Ah, well.
> >
> > Yvonne Muller  www.yvonnemuller.com
> >
> > ........
> > > >
> > > > But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the
> > > print,
> > > > and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature
> > > on
> > > > the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around the
> > > > rest of the print.
> > > >
> > > > I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to
> > > > prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print
> > > > (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).
> > > >
> > > > So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here
> > > > ... what do you do, and why?
> > > >
> > > > Arthur Fink
> >
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

My 16x20;

have a thin black border to define the image.
have a 1/4 white border - 
cept on bottom which is 5/8
the bottom have title, location, my name & city printed in light open script (not small)
I print the matting, too.

Buying a framed print doen't make sense to me. Everything depends on where it's displayed. The print can be matted any of several ways and that is nothing I'm concerned about. I can leave that to the "decorators".

gar


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 5/2/08 at 3:49 PM Angelique Raptakis wrote:

>When you show the edges of an image, do you print a thin line around the
>image area to separate where the image stops?  I've wondered about this,
>particularly when the image has a white or light colored background.
>
>~angelique
>
>On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Yvonne Muller <bellvale@...>
>wrote:
>
>> Arthur,
>>
>> It just depends on your emphasis.  Cropped images seem most
>> appropriate for informal art and for advertising, editorial, etc..
>> Showing the edges of an image (even if it has been cropped by the
>> artist in process)and sometimes showing the edges of fine paper as
>> well,particularly deckled edges), is a sensual, classy approach that
>> presents the entire piece.  It's more of a museum approach.
>>
>> Signing the mat has always seemed silly to me because the mat isn't
>> art.  Ah, well.
>>
>> Yvonne Muller  www.yvonnemuller.com
>>
>> ........
>> > >
>> > > But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the
>> > print,
>> > > and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature
>> > on
>> > > the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around the
>> > > rest of the print.
>> > >
>> > > I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to
>> > > prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print
>> > > (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).
>> > >
>> > > So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here
>> > > ... what do you do, and why?
>> > >
>> > > Arthur Fink
>>
>>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Hi Arthur.I do the same as Clayton and most often use the floating mat
method. I make the reveal equal on top and sides and leave just
slightly more on the bottom so the title and/or signature are not
cramped looking. The exception is if I print or trim to a full bleed
image where I sign and date/copyright directly in an unobtrusive spot
on the lower right corner. These are almost always low key images with
dark corners.

Regards
Duane



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink
<af@...> wrote:

>
> I always sign my prints, but then I cut an overmat with opening 
> slightly smaller than the printed image.  I also sign the mat.
> 
> But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the print, 
> and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature on 
> the print shows.  Also, there's a bit of space showing around the 
> rest of the print.
> 
> I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to 
> prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print 
> (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).
> 
> So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here 
> ... what do you do, and why?
> 
> Arthur Fink
> 
> 	A r t h u r  .  F i n k  .  P h o t o g r a p h y
> 	-------------------------------------------------
> 	Ten New Island Avenue         . land 207.766.5722
> 	Peaks Island, Maine 04108     . cell 207.615.5722
> 	www.arthurfinkphoto.com  . af@...
> 
> 	More dance images  www.f64gallery.com/arthur.html
>                     www.arthurfinkphoto.com/BatesShow2007
> 
> 
> 	"Dance Distraction -- An outbreak of movement in an unusual or 
> choreographically
> 	 under-used location, especially ... spontaneous frolic evoking a 
> joyous response."
>

The only prints that I don't leave actual paper showing are those printed on
canvas with gallery wrap. It shows the whole image as I meant it to be. It
shows the buyer/viewer that it is signed. It shows the paper base. It keeps
the matte off the image just in case there is some reaction with the image
area. 

 

The images don't get a line around them unless that is part of the image. I
sometimes add an edge effect to the image, but then that is part of the
image. 

 

The Why? It is the way I chose to show the completed piece to provide
assurance of image quality, size, etc. If the image is purchased the buyer
can do what they want. 

 

Eric

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dlruckus
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 7:19 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Sign the mat, or jut the print (and cut bigger mat
opening)

 

Hi Arthur.I do the same as Clayton and most often use the floating mat
method. I make the reveal equal on top and sides and leave just
slightly more on the bottom so the title and/or signature are not
cramped looking. The exception is if I print or trim to a full bleed
image where I sign and date/copyright directly in an unobtrusive spot
on the lower right corner. These are almost always low key images with
dark corners.

Regards
Duane

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Arthur Fink
<af@...> wrote:
>
> I always sign my prints, but then I cut an overmat with opening 
> slightly smaller than the printed image. I also sign the mat.
> 
> But I see other photographers signing and numbering just the print, 
> and cutting an overmat with a larger opening so that the signature on 
> the print shows. Also, there's a bit of space showing around the 
> rest of the print.
> 
> I'm told that galleries prefer this, although visually I tend to 
> prefer seeing the mat opening right against the edges of the print 
> (with perhaps 1/16" of the print hidden).
> 
> So ... before matting and framing for three shows, I'm asking here 
> ... what do you do, and why?
> 
> Arthur Fink
> 
> A r t h u r . F i n k . P h o t o g r a p h y
> -------------------------------------------------
> Ten New Island Avenue . land 207.766.5722
> Peaks Island, Maine 04108 . cell 207.615.5722
> www.arthurfinkphoto.com . af@...
> 
> More dance images www.f64gallery.com/arthur.html
> www.arthurfinkphoto.com/BatesShow2007
> 
> 
> "Dance Distraction -- An outbreak of movement in an unusual or 
> choreographically
> under-used location, especially ... spontaneous frolic evoking a 
> joyous response."
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My approach is that the signature and edition info needs to be on the  
actual print. I used to sign the mat but no more. But I always sign  
outside the image, so this is either on the edge or on the back if  
necessary. And I prefer to sign in pencil since this is an absolutely  
known quantity from an archival and possible reaction perspective.

Cheers,

Wayne

Wayne J. Cosshall
Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
Blog  http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
Photography and art forums http://www.dimagemaker.com/forums/
Personal art site http://www.cosshall.com/






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]