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Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digit al BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digit al BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 12/11/08 11:12:27 PM, jon@... writes:


> Its still not clear to me that the Spyder is going to automate
> anything for Brian when he tries to profile a dedicated b&w ink. It
> seems like if he already knows how to profile a dedicated b&w ink, he
> can substitute the measuring device he was using (an Eye1 for example)
> with a Spyder. Unless I am mistaken, all the Spyder is going to do is
> measure. It does not have any application to make curves, or linearize
> curves.
> 
Correct. The linearization process, and the CreateICC profiling process 
occurs in the QTR and CreateICC software. The only function that Spyder3Print 
performs is to measure the patches, and save them to a text file. Any curve 
building beyond that is the user's own work...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/spyder3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digit al BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 12/11/08 11:12:27 PM, jon@... writes:


> David will need
> to dimension out the target so the Spyder can read it, and a way for
> Brian to save the measured L values into a text file or spread sheet
> to send me.
> 

That would be possible, but the Spyder3Print software will already allow you 
to save any set of measurements that you want as Lab values. You can extract 
what you want from that, if a standard tab delininated text file can't be 
parsed by your software.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/spyder3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Jon Cone

David,

I have a user on this list right now trying this with a DTP70. We hope
to have a K7 profile made this morning.

Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target, measure it,
and save the L data that makes sense in relation to the target? Or do
you think you need to get involved?

Thanks,


Jon



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 12/11/08 11:12:27 PM, jon@... writes:
> 
> 
> > Its still not clear to me that the Spyder is going to automate
> > anything for Brian when he tries to profile a dedicated b&w ink. It
> > seems like if he already knows how to profile a dedicated b&w ink, he
> > can substitute the measuring device he was using (an Eye1 for example)
> > with a Spyder. Unless I am mistaken, all the Spyder is going to do is
> > measure. It does not have any application to make curves, or linearize
> > curves.
> > 
> Correct. The linearization process, and the CreateICC profiling process 
> occurs in the QTR and CreateICC software. The only function that
Spyder3Print 
> performs is to measure the patches, and save them to a text file.
Any curve 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> building beyond that is the user's own work...
> 
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/spyder3
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Roger

Maybe it was a bug in a recent build but I had problems using the
Spyderprint3 measure mode.  It's fine for the Paul Roark 21 step step
wedges but I have a 60 patch target and it was losing data after 30
something patches- I had to measure in two batches.

If it's working right and there's no limit to the number of patches
you can measure in measure mode you should be fine- you'll just get a
.txt file with L data you can dump into a spreadsheet or elsewhere.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Cone"
<jon@...> wrote:
>
> David,
> 
> I have a user on this list right now trying this with a DTP70. We hope
> to have a K7 profile made this morning.
> 
> Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target, measure it,
> and save the L data that makes sense in relation to the target? Or do
> you think you need to get involved?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@ wrote:
> >
> > 
> > In a message dated 12/11/08 11:12:27 PM, jon@ writes:
> > 
> > 
> > > Its still not clear to me that the Spyder is going to automate
> > > anything for Brian when he tries to profile a dedicated b&w ink. It
> > > seems like if he already knows how to profile a dedicated b&w
ink, he
> > > can substitute the measuring device he was using (an Eye1 for
example)
> > > with a Spyder. Unless I am mistaken, all the Spyder is going to
do is
> > > measure. It does not have any application to make curves, or
linearize
> > > curves.
> > > 
> > Correct. The linearization process, and the CreateICC profiling
process 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > occurs in the QTR and CreateICC software. The only function that
> Spyder3Print 
> > performs is to measure the patches, and save them to a text file.
> Any curve 
> > building beyond that is the user's own work...
> > 
> > C. David Tobie
> > WW Product Technology Manager
> > Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> > Datacolor Inc.
> > CDTobie@
> > www.datacolor.com/spyder3
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by pr_roark

Jon,

...
> Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target, 
> measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation 
> to the target? 

Will a standard 256-Step grayscale test target like below work?

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/256-Step-GS.jpg


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Jon Cone

Paul,

Does the Spyder read single patches or rows? I am under the impression
it reads rows or is semi-automated to eliminate human error. It would
seem the type on your target might get picked up by the reader unless
the software eliminates it. Human error is a bad bad thing in any form
of precision profiling.

If it is a single patch reader I would think it would take about 20
minutes to accurately read 256 patches. Why am I in the dark about
this device????


The 256 patch DTP70 target is here:
http://www.piezography.com/EyeOne-256-patches.tif

The EyeOne target is here:
http://www.piezography.com/EyeOne-256-patches.tif

I have targets also for the DTP-20, DTP-40, and the EyeOne iO, and
even the old Gretag SpectraScan (wonderful device but needs older
operating systems.)


Jon




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
<pr_roark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Jon,
> 
> ...
> > Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> > allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target, 
> > measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation 
> > to the target? 
> 
> Will a standard 256-Step grayscale test target like below work?
> 
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/256-Step-GS.jpg
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profi ling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Walker Blackwell

Jon. Do you have a MeasureTool TXT file for that 256 target? I am  
working on a BW workflow that will let me match any hue value from any  
BW printing process (Silver or Digital) with either a K3 ink setup or  
K5 with LC LM Y, using custom RGB input profiles. I have some K3  
matches done already for the 11880 . . .

This target would be useful for debugging . . .

all the best,
Walker


On Dec 12, 2008, at 12:33 PM, Jon Cone wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Does the Spyder read single patches or rows? I am under the impression
> it reads rows or is semi-automated to eliminate human error. It would
> seem the type on your target might get picked up by the reader unless
> the software eliminates it. Human error is a bad bad thing in any form
> of precision profiling.
>
> If it is a single patch reader I would think it would take about 20
> minutes to accurately read 256 patches. Why am I in the dark about
> this device????
>
> The 256 patch DTP70 target is here:
> http://www.piezography.com/EyeOne-256-patches.tif
>
> The EyeOne target is here:
> http://www.piezography.com/EyeOne-256-patches.tif
>
> I have targets also for the DTP-20, DTP-40, and the EyeOne iO, and
> even the old Gretag SpectraScan (wonderful device but needs older
> operating systems.)
>
> Jon
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
> <pr_roark@...> wrote:
> >
> > Jon,
> >
> > ...
> > > Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> > > allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target,
> > > measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation
> > > to the target?
> >
> > Will a standard 256-Step grayscale test target like below work?
> >
> > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/256-Step-GS.jpg
> >
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by pr_roark

> Does the Spyder read single patches or rows? 

The PFP 2 that I use reads individual patches.  I think it's the best 
way to go for reading 21-step test files, which is what I do.  I do 
not read large targets with it.  I don't think it's necessary, and a 
strip reader is what I'd want for that process.

>... to eliminate human error.

Based on some comparisons I've seen in the past, careful manual 
reading is slightly more accurate than strip reading.

With my 21-step test file,
 
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/21-Step_0-100_L16_16-bit-top.zip

I don't have significant errors. (I have put a white dot on the PFP 
reader to help alignment.)
 
It takes one minute to read 21 steps, and that is all I find is 
needed. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Jon Cone

Hey Walker,

Go into the reference files of the MeasureTool and look at the text
format of the existing targets. It is not obvious how they organize
the data to target. But if you create a small one with more than one
row and column, you will get the idea.

You can pretty easily make any type of target you need that way.

Hope this helps. As I do not have a MeasureTool compatible target for
it. ColorPort saves XML and MeasureTool needs text...

Jon

PS  - losing you to color inks is going to be a very sad day. Do not
use too much C,M,Y



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Walker Blackwell
<forums@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Jon. Do you have a MeasureTool TXT file for that 256 target? I am  
> working on a BW workflow that will let me match any hue value from any  
> BW printing process (Silver or Digital) with either a K3 ink setup or  
> K5 with LC LM Y, using custom RGB input profiles. I have some K3  
> matches done already for the 11880 . . .
> 
> This target would be useful for debugging . . .
> 
> all the best,
> Walker
> 
> 
> On Dec 12, 2008, at 12:33 PM, Jon Cone wrote:
> 
> > Paul,
> >
> > Does the Spyder read single patches or rows? I am under the impression
> > it reads rows or is semi-automated to eliminate human error. It would
> > seem the type on your target might get picked up by the reader unless
> > the software eliminates it. Human error is a bad bad thing in any form
> > of precision profiling.
> >
> > If it is a single patch reader I would think it would take about 20
> > minutes to accurately read 256 patches. Why am I in the dark about
> > this device????
> >
> > The 256 patch DTP70 target is here:
> > http://www.piezography.com/EyeOne-256-patches.tif
> >
> > The EyeOne target is here:
> > http://www.piezography.com/EyeOne-256-patches.tif
> >
> > I have targets also for the DTP-20, DTP-40, and the EyeOne iO, and
> > even the old Gretag SpectraScan (wonderful device but needs older
> > operating systems.)
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
> > <pr_roark@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jon,
> > >
> > > ...
> > > > Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> > > > allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target,
> > > > measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation
> > > > to the target?
> > >
> > > Will a standard 256-Step grayscale test target like below work?
> > >
> > > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/256-Step-GS.jpg
> > >
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Jon Cone

Paul,

I may take the time over the holidays to make spectral comparisons
with Spyder Pro. I just found a kit here in R&D and yes its a single
reader. This means any target can be used. So that makes that easy.

I will compare the reading of gray patches with Spyder, DTP70, EyeOne
and will do the EyeOne as strip, auto (iO) and manual for comparison.
The DTP 70 is automated but can be used to read a single patch.
Will be interesting to see the results.

I will compare delta E differences between everything.

I will produce K7 profiles using each set of data. Then print a
linearization confirmation target to see which system measures best
for reproducing the Piezography K7 linear Gamma 2.2 result.

I will use the Piezography Profiler in direct read mode for the
linearization confirmation, but use the data from all the profiling
measurements as an import.

Then share the results here and let K7 users know what they can expect
by reading their own data for a custom K7 profile.

In the meantime I am waiting for the first L data to come in for a
remote profile attempt!

Jon Cone
Piezography nut


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
<pr_roark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>  
> > Does the Spyder read single patches or rows? 
> 
> The PFP 2 that I use reads individual patches.  I think it's the best 
> way to go for reading 21-step test files, which is what I do.  I do 
> not read large targets with it.  I don't think it's necessary, and a 
> strip reader is what I'd want for that process.
> 
> >... to eliminate human error.
> 
> Based on some comparisons I've seen in the past, careful manual 
> reading is slightly more accurate than strip reading.
> 
> With my 21-step test file,
>  
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/21-Step_0-100_L16_16-bit-top.zip
> 
> I don't have significant errors. (I have put a white dot on the PFP 
> reader to help alignment.)
>  
> It takes one minute to read 21 steps, and that is all I find is 
> needed. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digit al BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 12/12/08 1:58:36 PM, jon@... writes:


> I may take the time over the holidays to make spectral comparisons
> with Spyder Pro. I just found a kit here in R&D and yes its a single
> reader. This means any target can be used. So that makes that easy.
> 
> I will compare the reading of gray patches with Spyder, DTP70, EyeOne
> and will do the EyeOne as strip, auto (iO) and manual for comparison.
> The DTP 70 is automated but can be used to read a single patch.
> Will be interesting to see the results.
> 
> I will compare delta E differences between everything.
> 
You won't get spectral data out of Spyder3Print. But in terms of L*a*b* 
values: I measured all the patches on a ColorChecker with one of our spectros, and 
an EyeOne spectro, compared the values, and the average Delta-E94 was less 
than one, which would mean visually the same...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/spyder3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profi ling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Walker Blackwell

Thanks for the info Jon.

Your aren't loosing me to color inks. I'm just forced to build bw  
workflows for our 11880 printers in Chicago and (I guess) Germany. QTR  
doesn't support it yet and the RGB driver doesn't work very well with  
it's K generation. So I'm forced to use ColorBurst with 100% GCR and a  
base CMYK profile (just CMYK doesn't get there). I'm then tuning that  
profile with CreateICC RGB input profiles that I iteratively tune to  
neutral by inverting the ab values out of a 51 step patch printed  
multiple times. I can then take any hue from a 51 step patch printed  
on another system and add those ab (and even L) values to match the  
tonality and linearization of the system before. So far I've matched  
Quad Selenium, Warm-Neutral Selenium 1-1 split, and dead-neutral (not  
exactly K7), as well as the StudioPrint linearity "gamma" all going to  
60 inches (well 63.75, if paper comes out one day.) Iterative hue  
"linearization" is a very interesting world . . . .

But if I had a choice and the money, I would buy another 11880 and run  
split quad + a few added k7 highlight shades for a good BW setup. But  
there's no software. Alas . . . . . My partners in Chicago don't want  
to deal with Quad or our old creaky 9600s. I don't blame them. We've  
run those machines into the ground. Added to that, we need to build a  
workflow that can print exactly the same from 4x6 inches to 60x80  
inches all at 2880dpi and with as little metamerism as possible all  
while maintaining our print-by-print editions we started on  
Piezography 4 years ago and while upgrading our hardware. Right now  
it's a software availability problem, not a hardware problem.

Older Epson printers (even the smaller 880s) don't have good enough  
internal LUTs to build full BW workflows. The newer x900s and our  
11880 seem to have the built in K neutrality with their HM dithers and  
nozzle densities to be able to do all of this properly.

I'm trying to figure out a way to get two 9900s here in Burlington VT.  
I want to set up a non-profit version of Black Point Editions where  
artists would come and do their work. If it works out in the next few  
years, I'd run one 9900 on Piezo (depending upon the outlook for CUPs  
drivers, etc.) and another color . . . The economy sucks so bad, I  
have no idea what's going to happen. There's a greater chance I'll be  
logging and farming in Cabot before anything else.

all the best,
Walker



On Dec 12, 2008, at 1:15 PM, Jon Cone wrote:

> Hey Walker,
>
> Go into the reference files of the MeasureTool and look at the text
> format of the existing targets. It is not obvious how they organize
> the data to target. But if you create a small one with more than one
> row and column, you will get the idea.
>
> You can pretty easily make any type of target you need that way.
>
> Hope this helps. As I do not have a MeasureTool compatible target for
> it. ColorPort saves XML and MeasureTool needs text...
>
> Jon
>
> PS - losing you to color inks is going to be a very sad day. Do not
> use too much C,M,Y
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Walker Blackwell
> <forums@...> wrote:
> >
> > Jon. Do you have a MeasureTool TXT file for that 256 target? I am
> > working on a BW workflow that will let me match any hue value from  
> any
> > BW printing process (Silver or Digital) with either a K3 ink setup  
> or
> > K5 with LC LM Y, using custom RGB input profiles. I have some K3
> > matches done already for the 11880 . . .
> >
> > This target would be useful for debugging . . .
> >
> > all the best,
> > Walker
> >
> >
> > On Dec 12, 2008, at 12:33 PM, Jon Cone wrote:
> >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > Does the Spyder read single patches or rows? I am under the  
> impression
> > > it reads rows or is semi-automated to eliminate human error. It  
> would
> > > seem the type on your target might get picked up by the reader  
> unless
> > > the software eliminates it. Human error is a bad bad thing in  
> any form
> > > of precision profiling.
> > >
> > > If it is a single patch reader I would think it would take about  
> 20
> > > minutes to accurately read 256 patches. Why am I in the dark about
> > > this device????
> > >
> > > The 256 patch DTP70 target is here:
> > > http://www.piezography.com/EyeOne-256-patches.tif
> > >
> > > The EyeOne target is here:
> > > http://www.piezography.com/EyeOne-256-patches.tif
> > >
> > > I have targets also for the DTP-20, DTP-40, and the EyeOne iO, and
> > > even the old Gretag SpectraScan (wonderful device but needs older
> > > operating systems.)
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
> > > <pr_roark@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Jon,
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > > > Do you think that the Spyder software has enough  
> documentation to
> > > > > allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target,
> > > > > measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation
> > > > > to the target?
> > > >
> > > > Will a standard 256-Step grayscale test target like below work?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/256-Step-GS.jpg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > > www.PaulRoark.com
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digit al BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 12/12/08 12:34:15 PM, jon@... writes:


> If it is a single patch reader I would think it would take about 20
> minutes to accurately read 256 patches. Why am I in the dark about
> this device????
> 

The current Spyder3Print is a patch at a time reader. However, I can read our 
225 patch target with it in about three minutes, so even a slow poke wouldn't 
need twenty...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/spyder3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digit al BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 12/12/08 11:30:20 AM, pr_roark@... writes:


> > Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> > allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target,
> > measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation
> > to the target?
> 

You can create a text file of any series of patches in any order you care to 
read them. By the time you get to 256, it would be good to have some feedback 
though, instead of reading blind. If you formatted it to fit one of our 
existing targets (in terms of numbers of patches per row, then you'd get to see each 
patch as you measured it, and get a confirmation at the end of each row that 
you hadn't skipped or doubled any readings. We don't have a 256 patch target, 
but we have 225, 238, 729; you could do it as 729, and not fill it out, just 
stop at 256. But our saved targets are not in a standard tab delineated text 
format, the way our exported logs are, so there would be a bit of Excel 
conversion needed to grab the L* values and adjust the decimal point in them.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/spyder3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Jon Cone

Walker!  beware will roger beware!!!

My sources tell me that the X900 printers have built-in disabling
firmware which detects non-epson carts and simply does not function.
The chances of piezo inks into these printers is remote - very remote.
Some of this new tech surfaced with the 3800, and is in the magenta
positions of the X880s and apparently is now perfected in the X900s.

I believe that the X880s are the end of an Epson era for any non-epson
ink.

You must find some $$ for your own personal future printer. Buy it now
and store it. Its way better than any other $$ investment you could
possibly make.

Jon

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-12 by Jon Cone

David,

Can you give a hand with this actual data rather than leaving it up in
the air like this? I am willing to put the work in on this side to
make it work on my end. If you can help with your product on your end
- this could be good for everyone. Your Spyder is way cheaper than an
EyeOne or a DTP70 - I think it would be worth your while to help
fashion some process. 

Do you have access to making a simple 256 patch gray target from
0-255? And then supplying it to the users? Or/and can you supply the
Excel conversion process to convert the data to something usable?

Thanks,

jon



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 12/12/08 11:30:20 AM, pr_roark@... writes:
> 
> 
> > > Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> > > allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target,
> > > measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation
> > > to the target?
> > 
> 
> You can create a text file of any series of patches in any order you
care to 
> read them. By the time you get to 256, it would be good to have some
feedback 
> though, instead of reading blind. If you formatted it to fit one of our 
> existing targets (in terms of numbers of patches per row, then you'd
get to see each 
> patch as you measured it, and get a confirmation at the end of each
row that 
> you hadn't skipped or doubled any readings. We don't have a 256
patch target, 
> but we have 225, 238, 729; you could do it as 729, and not fill it
out, just 
> stop at 256. But our saved targets are not in a standard tab
delineated text 
> format, the way our exported logs are, so there would be a bit of Excel 
> conversion needed to grab the L* values and adjust the decimal point
in them.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/spyder3
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

RE: Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by Brian Corll

Note to SpyderPrint software developers: We need the ability to create and
use custom B&W targets !  Having been a software developer for many years, I
don’t think that’s such a tall order.

-----------------------------------------------------

Brian Corll
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Cone
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:59 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Brian and David  was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W
Inks

 

David,

Can you give a hand with this actual data rather than leaving it up in
the air like this? I am willing to put the work in on this side to
make it work on my end. If you can help with your product on your end
- this could be good for everyone. Your Spyder is way cheaper than an
EyeOne or a DTP70 - I think it would be worth your while to help
fashion some process. 

Do you have access to making a simple 256 patch gray target from
0-255? And then supplying it to the users? Or/and can you supply the
Excel conversion process to convert the data to something usable?

Thanks,

jon






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by Brian Corll

Paul,

I printed the wedge a couple of different ways and with the OEM Epson inkset
I see no separation until I hit step 22. The same when viewed on screen. To
be expected ?

 

-----------------------------------------------------

Brian Corll

1002 East Simpson Street

Mechanicsburg, PA 17055

Tel.: (717) 691-0286
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pr_roark
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 11:30 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Brian and David  was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W
Inks

 

Jon,

....
> Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target, 
> measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation 
> to the target? 

Will a standard 256-Step grayscale test target like below work?

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/256-Step-GS.jpg

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by pr_roark

Brian,

 
> I printed the wedge a couple of different ways and with the 
> OEM Epson inkset I see no separation until I hit step 22. 
> The same when viewed on screen. To be expected ?

Gray Gamma 2.2 workspace, which is the most common standard, does 
compress the dark values significantly.  That is probably a major part 
of what is going on.  How much light is on the print and on the 
monitor, and accuracy of profiling -- monitor and printer/paper -- 
probably also contribute.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by Brian Corll

David,

Is it permissible to post partial results from a reading of the first line
of values  of the 256-greys wedge ? I know redistribution of profiles is not
permitted
.

 

-----------------------------------------------------

Brian Corll
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:40 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Brian and David  was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated
B&W Inks

 


In a message dated 12/12/08 11:30:20 AM, pr_roark@...
<mailto:pr_roark%40yahoo.com>  writes:

> > Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
> > allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target,
> > measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation
> > to the target?
> 

You can create a text file of any series of patches in any order you care to

read them. By the time you get to 256, it would be good to have some
feedback 
though, instead of reading blind. If you formatted it to fit one of our 
existing targets (in terms of numbers of patches per row, then you'd get to
see each 
patch as you measured it, and get a confirmation at the end of each row that

you hadn't skipped or doubled any readings. We don't have a 256 patch
target, 
but we have 225, 238, 729; you could do it as 729, and not fill it out, just

stop at 256. But our saved targets are not in a standard tab delineated text

format, the way our exported logs are, so there would be a bit of Excel 
conversion needed to grab the L* values and adjust the decimal point in
them.

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@... <mailto:CDTobie%40datacolor.com> 
www.datacolor.com/spyder3

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by Cdtobie

Note to B&W fanatics: the tools to measure grayscales are already  
available to you in Spyder3Print.

Simply select the one or three page 729 patch target, and configure  
your rows and columns to match.  Then read any number of patches up to  
729 into the target (if you need less than 256 patches, one of the  
other targets may be more convenient); if you configured your target  
properly you will get all the advantages of patch numbers and row end  
indicators. Hit the 3 key to eliminate the existing colors from being  
displayed, so you can see just your measured values as you read. When  
you have finished and checked your patches visually (and checked the  
Lab values numerically if you care to) you choose the Export option  
from the Tools menu, and a tab deliniated text file of your  
measurements is created in the Export folder. Open this in Excel to  
clip off blank rows at the bottom or to reconfigure if your  
application doesn't read standard Lab values. That should cover it.

Note to Jon: measurements of grays should even more consistant than  
other colors, as the challenging areas are in the saturated colors.  
Our consistancy is about ten times better than the EyeOne, as we have  
a two channel device (the Spectrolino had both a reference and a  
sample channel, as we do, with the EyeOne and ColorMunki the reference  
channel has been eliminated), as well as being a solid state LED based  
device.

C. D. Tobie
WW Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
DataColor.com
CDTobie@...

On Dec 12, 2008, at 8:31 PM, "Brian Corll" <briancorll@...>  
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Note to SpyderPrint software developers: We need the ability to  
> create and
> use custom B&W targets !  Having been a software developer for many  
> years, I
> don’t think that’s such a tall order.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Brian Corll
>
>
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> Jon Cone
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:59 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Brian and David  was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with  
> Dedicated B&W
> Inks
>
>
>
> David,
>
> Can you give a hand with this actual data rather than leaving it up in
> the air like this? I am willing to put the work in on this side to
> make it work on my end. If you can help with your product on your end
> - this could be good for everyone. Your Spyder is way cheaper than an
> EyeOne or a DTP70 - I think it would be worth your while to help
> fashion some process.
>
> Do you have access to making a simple 256 patch gray target from
> 0-255? And then supplying it to the users? Or/and can you supply the
> Excel conversion process to convert the data to something usable?
>
> Thanks,
>
> jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and  
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in  
> the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNE 
> R” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DA 
> MAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE L 
> OSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW,  
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH D 
> AMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIG 
> ITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTER 
> ATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF  
> ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) AN 
> Y OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by Cdtobie

Yes, there is no restriction on publishing measurements, export away!

C. D. Tobie
WW Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
DataColor.com
CDTobie@...

On Dec 12, 2008, at 10:02 PM, "Brian Corll" <briancorll@...>  
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> David,
>
> Is it permissible to post partial results from a reading of the  
> first line
> of values  of the 256-greys wedge ? I know redistribution of  
> profiles is not
> permitted….
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Brian Corll
>
>
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> CDTobie@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 2:40 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Brian and David  was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with  
> Dedicated
> B&W Inks
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/12/08 11:30:20 AM, pr_roark@...
> <mailto:pr_roark%40yahoo.com>  writes:
>
>>> Do you think that the Spyder software has enough documentation to
>>> allow Brian to create his own 256 grayscale patch target,
>>> measure it, and save the L data that makes sense in relation
>>> to the target?
>>
>
> You can create a text file of any series of patches in any order you  
> care to
>
> read them. By the time you get to 256, it would be good to have some
> feedback
> though, instead of reading blind. If you formatted it to fit one of  
> our
> existing targets (in terms of numbers of patches per row, then you'd  
> get to
> see each
> patch as you measured it, and get a confirmation at the end of each  
> row that
>
> you hadn't skipped or doubled any readings. We don't have a 256 patch
> target,
> but we have 225, 238, 729; you could do it as 729, and not fill it  
> out, just
>
> stop at 256. But our saved targets are not in a standard tab  
> delineated text
>
> format, the way our exported logs are, so there would be a bit of  
> Excel
> conversion needed to grab the L* values and adjust the decimal point  
> in
> them.
>
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@... <mailto:CDTobie%40datacolor.com>
> www.datacolor.com/spyder3
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and  
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in  
> the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNE 
> R” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DA 
> MAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE L 
> OSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW,  
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH D 
> AMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIG 
> ITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTER 
> ATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF  
> ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) AN 
> Y OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

RE: Brian and David was Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by Brian Corll

OK – here is the data I got from the first line of the 256-step wedge (values 230..255). I need to either make a grid for the wedge or create a new grid with enough separation between the values to easily read them.

 

<?xml version="1.0" standalone="yes"?>

<CurrentVersion>1.0.2</CurrentVersion>

<Description>Spyder3Print measurement data file, (c) 2007 Datacolor, All Rights Reserved</Description>

<NumVals>729</NumVals>

<Printer>Epson 2200</Printer>

<MediaType>Enhanced Matte</MediaType>

<Colorant>OEM</Colorant>

<MediaSetting>Enhanced Matte 1440</MediaSetting>

<Date>12/12/2008, 9:36 PM</Date>

<Target>4</Target>

<ProfileName></ProfileName>

<ProfileGenerated>False</ProfileGenerated>

<ProfileEdited>False</ProfileEdited>

<ProfileLocation>1</ProfileLocation>

<Precision>1</Precision>

<ShowEdits>True</ShowEdits>

<BrightnessSlider>0</BrightnessSlider>

<ContrastSlider>0</ContrastSlider>

<SaturationSlider>0</SaturationSlider>

<RedSlider>0</RedSlider>

<GreenSlider>0</GreenSlider>

<BlueSlider>0</BlueSlider>

<ViewingLightBrightness>0</ViewingLightBrightness>

<ViewingLightColorTemperature>0</ViewingLightColorTemperature>

<User>Brian Corll</User>

<Platform>Windows</Platform>

<Serial>890710-045748-632769</Serial>

<Driver></Driver>

<Alt></Alt>

<Fingerprint>353632</Fingerprint>

<RefWhite>10000            0              0</RefWhite>

<RefBlack>1685                56           132</RefBlack>

<LabColor>1       7888       163         -469</LabColor>

<LabColor>2       7945       30           -499</LabColor>

<LabColor>3       7999       140         -450</LabColor>

<LabColor>4       8058       173         -456</LabColor>

<LabColor>5       8122       196         -461</LabColor>

<LabColor>6       8179       220         -460</LabColor>

<LabColor>7       8259       205         -437</LabColor>

<LabColor>8       8349       171         -396</LabColor>

<LabColor>9       8410       145         -362</LabColor>

<LabColor>10    8482       175         -338</LabColor>

<LabColor>11    8551       159         -312</LabColor>

<LabColor>12    8560       169         -320</LabColor>

<LabColor>13    8613       165         -286</LabColor>

<LabColor>14    8637       81           -344</LabColor>

<LabColor>15    8677       88           -332</LabColor>

<LabColor>16    8852       87           -371</LabColor>

<LabColor>17    8906       80           -334</LabColor>

<LabColor>18    8950       61           -288</LabColor>

<LabColor>19    8993       47           -240</LabColor>

<LabColor>20    9042       59           -223</LabColor>

<LabColor>21    9058       64           -232</LabColor>

<LabColor>22    9077       71           -230</LabColor>

<LabColor>23    9121       80           -229</LabColor>

<LabColor>24    9234       91           -207</LabColor>

<LabColor>25    9240       90           -197</LabColor>

<LabColor>26    9265       61           -178</LabColor>

 

-----------------------------------------------------

Brian Corll

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digit al BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 12/13/08 12:05:49 PM, briancorll@... writes:


> 
> In the XML output from a reading, where would the decimal places go for 
> proper Lab formatting ?
> 

Since you can export these to tab delinated Lab values with corrected decimal 
format, its not much of a user issue; but the answer is that the values in 
the XML file are to two places beyond the decimal point, with no decimal 
included, so you'd move the point two places to the left to correct them. This is to 
deal with the conflict between US formats (decimal point, with optional commas 
each three places to the left) with formats from elsewhere in the world 
(comma as decimal point, and periods where we'd use commas), which causes no end of 
grief if you include punctuation in your numbers!

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/spyder3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Brian and David was Re: [Digit al BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-13 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 12/13/08 9:46:13 AM, briancorll@... writes:


> OK – here is the data I got from the first line of the 256-step wedge 
> (values 230..255). 
> 
___
Export it, it will be a lot easier to deal with...

C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/spyder3


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-16 by Jon Cone

The experiment worked!

I have been able to make K7 and K6 profiles of perfect linearization
using a remote method in which the printing of the target and the
measuring of the target both take place at the users location, while
the profiler app runs at my location. The data dumps were emailed to
me as text files by the users, although one person extracted and sent
only the L values (which during the initial experiment was very helpful.)

The data was imported into the Piezography K7 profiling system and
converted into QTR Curve, and emailed back to the user (usually within
a half hour.)

This method works really well. I now have process for Eye1, DTP70, and
DTP40. Users read their targets with MeasureTool and Save the data to
text file. I import the text file and produce a linearized output of
seven (or six) 256 point curves that are specific to the printer.

I did not get any volunteers on the ColorVision device. But if someone
can work out the data dump to be useful to L values, there is no
reason why it should not.

I did not have time to evaluate the qualitative differences between
all of these spectral devices. In the case of the x-rites each was
able to do what what expected, which is all that matters in the end.
The AB values were not used.

This method is geared directly to the users printer without regard to
any averaging. It should make for very perfect output on a particular
printer, and would certainly be better than the canned K7 profiles we
provide to QTR or ship with current systems as an installer CD.

I plan to offer this process after I streamline the procedures on my
end a bit. Right now I can K7 profile for Epson 800, 1800, 1900, 2100,
2200, 2400, 2880, 3800, 4000, 7600, 7800, 7880, 9600, 9800, 9880
printers. I can K6 profile for Epson 1270, 1280, 1290, 200, 300, 1400,
7000, 7500, 9000 and 9500 printers.

It is also possible to do remote K6 and K7 glossy profiling of the MPS
inks if the user is willing to spray or create their own GO workflow.
I do not offer any canned MPS profiles for the glossy Piezography inks.

Thanks for those who participated and thanks for the idea which came
from participating on this great listserve.

Jon Cone
Piezography

Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-16 by CDTobie

I did not get any volunteers on the ColorVision device. But if someone
can work out the data dump to be useful to L values, there is no
reason why it should not.

I explained how to generate a L*a* b* export file from any measurement set with our products. It can be done "blind" with the Tools menu's Measure function, or it can be done by reading into a target file, and exporting.


C. David Tobie
WW Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor
CDTobie@...
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3

www.colorvision.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Cone <jon@inkjetmall.com>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 7:35 pm
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks








The experiment worked!

I have been able to make K7 and K6 profiles of perfect linearization
using a remote method in which the printing of the target and the
measuring of the target both take place at the users location, while
the profiler app runs at my location. The data dumps were emailed to
me as text files by the users, although one person extracted and sent
only the L values (which during the initial experiment was very helpful.)

The data was imported into the Piezography K7 profiling system and
converted into QTR Curve, and emailed back to the user (usually within
a half hour.)

This method works really well. I now have process for Eye1, DTP70, and
DTP40. Users read their targets with MeasureTool and Save the data to
text file. I import20the text file and produce a linearized output of
seven (or six) 256 point curves that are specific to the printer.

I did not get any volunteers on the ColorVision device. But if someone
can work out the data dump to be useful to L values, there is no
reason why it should not.

I did not have time to evaluate the qualitative differences between
all of these spectral devices. In the case of the x-rites each was
able to do what what expected, which is all that matters in the end.
The AB values were not used.

This method is geared directly to the users printer without regard to
any averaging. It should make for very perfect output on a particular
printer, and would certainly be better than the canned K7 profiles we
provide to QTR or ship with current systems as an installer CD.

I plan to offer this process after I streamline the procedures on my
end a bit. Right now I can K7 profile for Epson 800, 1800, 1900, 2100,
2200, 2400, 2880, 3800, 4000, 7600, 7800, 7880, 9600, 9800, 9880
printers. I can K6 profile for Epson 1270, 1280, 1290, 200, 300, 1400,
7000, 7500, 9000 and 9500 printers.

It is also possible to do remote K6 and K7 glossy profiling of the MPS
inks if the user is willing to spray or create their own GO workflow.
I do not offer any canned MPS profiles for the glossy Piezography inks.

Thanks for those who participated and thanks for the idea which came
from participating on this great listserve.

Jon Cone
Piezography  


-----------------------------------
-

Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they 
are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks

2008-12-16 by Jon Cone

Well darn, but no one tried it.  :(

I got one DTP70 user, a score of Eye1 users, and one DTP40 user. No
one with a Spyder. I am still willing to try it with a Spyder user (or
two!)   :)

1) Contact me for master curve for your printer and K7/K6 ink
combination. I will email it with installation instructions.

2) Create a target that will give you 256 patches of RGB gray from
(0,0,0  to  255,255,255) that Spyder can read. Do NOT scramble the
logical order from 0 - 255 unless you can unscramble when you export.

3) Print this target with the master curve I supply and the
Piezography workflow for QTR (not the QTR worfkow for QTR).

4) Measure the target

5) Export me a data file according to David's instructions.

contact me off list to send this to my email address...

Thanks in advance.

Jon

 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie
<CDTobie@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> I did not get any volunteers on the ColorVision device. But if someone
> can work out the data dump to be useful to L values, there is no
> reason why it should not.
> 
> I explained how to generate a L*a* b* export file from any
measurement set with our products. It can be done "blind" with the
Tools menu's Measure function, or it can be done by reading into a
target file, and exporting.
> 
> 
> C. David Tobie
> WW Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor
> CDTobie@...
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
> 
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Cone <jon@...>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 7:35 pm
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Profiling with Dedicated B&W Inks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The experiment worked!
> 
> I have been able to make K7 and K6 profiles of perfect linearization
> using a remote method in which the printing of the target and the
> measuring of the target both take place at the users location, while
> the profiler app runs at my location. The data dumps were emailed to
> me as text files by the users, although one person extracted and sent
> only the L values (which during the initial experiment was very
helpful.)
> 
> The data was imported into the Piezography K7 profiling system and
> converted into QTR Curve, and emailed back to the user (usually within
> a half hour.)
> 
> This method works really well. I now have process for Eye1, DTP70, and
> DTP40. Users read their targets with MeasureTool and Save the data to
> text file. I import20the text file and produce a linearized output of
> seven (or six) 256 point curves that are specific to the printer.
> 
> I did not get any volunteers on the ColorVision device. But if someone
> can work out the data dump to be useful to L values, there is no
> reason why it should not.
> 
> I did not have time to evaluate the qualitative differences between
> all of these spectral devices. In the case of the x-rites each was
> able to do what what expected, which is all that matters in the end.
> The AB values were not used.
> 
> This method is geared directly to the users printer without regard to
> any averaging. It should make for very perfect output on a particular
> printer, and would certainly be better than the canned K7 profiles we
> provide to QTR or ship with current systems as an installer CD.
> 
> I plan to offer this process after I streamline the procedures on my
> end a bit. Right now I can K7 profile for Epson 800, 1800, 1900, 2100,
> 2200, 2400, 2880, 3800, 4000, 7600, 7800, 7880, 9600, 9800, 9880
> printers. I can K6 profile for Epson 1270, 1280, 1290, 200, 300, 1400,
> 7000, 7500, 9000 and 9500 printers.
> 
> It is also possible to do remote K6 and K7 glossy profiling of the MPS
> inks if the user is willing to spray or create their own GO workflow.
> I do not offer any canned MPS profiles for the glossy Piezography inks.
> 
> Thanks for those who participated and thanks for the idea which came
> from participating on this great listserve.
> 
> Jon Cone
> Piezography  
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------
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DIRECT, 
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INCLUDING BUT 
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OTHER 
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> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
TRANSMISSIONS OR 
> DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL
BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL
BW, THE 
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