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2010-01-22 by Marks
Using the Imacon 949 I've found that scanning with 16bit greyscale as a negative is the best. Then invert in PS, I use levels and invert with the output sliders opposite each other. Then make further adjustments with the level sliders. Mark
2010-01-22 by frankg_photo
Have you found, by trying, that there is no benefit to scanning B&W negs in RGB and selecting one of the channels 'as being the best' and then trashing the other two ? --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Marks <mark@...> wrote:
> > Using the Imacon 949 I've found that scanning with 16bit greyscale as > a negative is the best. Then invert in PS, I use levels and invert > with the output sliders opposite each other. Then make further > adjustments with the level sliders. > > Mark >
2010-01-22 by Marks
yes, no advantage at all. On Jan 21, 2010, at 6:51 PM, frankg_photo wrote: > Have you found, by trying, that there is no benefit to scanning B&W > negs in RGB and selecting one of the channels 'as being the best' > and then trashing the other two ? > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Marks > <mark@...> wrote: > > > > Using the Imacon 949 I've found that scanning with 16bit > greyscale as > > a negative is the best. Then invert in PS, I use levels and invert > > with the output sliders opposite each other. Then make further > > adjustments with the level sliders. > > > > Mark > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-01-22 by pdesmidt tds.net
It's easy to test these things oneself. Scanning takes quite a bit of time. It makes sense to do a little testing before doing a whole bunch of scans, as you wouldn't want to have to redo all of the work. In my experience, pro scanners show less of a difference between the channels of a neutral negative than consumer scanners do, but my Cezanne does show differences between the channels, including with a Stouffer test wedge. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-01-22 by E.Neilsen
I think that's the OP situation; a rental scanner and he is trying to maximize his experience if I read his post correctly. So time is what is going to cost. There is just no way to save the time though. To get good scans, can take a bit of time to optimize the scan workflow for you material. Take copious notes so that when you go back you can go faster next time. I might suggest, if you haven't used this place before, is to just run some test situations and call it a day. Go home and run those tests through your work flow and see what worked best and then go back with your negs and get to work. I'd also confirm the blue channel as a problem color many times and that an RGB and subdue the blue channel later would be OK. Eric Neilsen Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 www.ericneilsenphotography.com skype me with ejprinter _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of pdesmidt tds.net Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 11:04 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Scanning B It's easy to test these things oneself. Scanning takes quite a bit of time. It makes sense to do a little testing before doing a whole bunch of scans, as you wouldn't want to have to redo all of the work. In my experience, pro scanners show less of a difference between the channels of a neutral negative than consumer scanners do, but my Cezanne does show differences between the channels, including with a Stouffer test wedge. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-01-23 by Paul Kohl
I use an Imacon Flextight regularly and have done tests on black and white negative scanning. My results are that scanning as a greyscale positive gets me the most efficient and tonally comprehensive scans, as another poster recommended. One important thing is to set the Texture/Unsharp masking sharpening setting to -120 or else the software will sharpen the image. This sharpening will increase grain presence in the image. I sharpen later in PS using the Photokit sharpened plug-in. The Imacon is a great machine. Good luck with it. Paul
2010-01-23 by frankg_photo
We live and learn. I rented time and the scans are ok, but not great. I'll do better next time now that I'm more familiar with the interface and will be less panicked about maximizing my rental time at the lab. I could use a little more clarification from users please: Re: USM at -120 I had the usm palette boxes all set to 0 (one of the usm settings, I forget which, kept defaulting to 1) and indeed the grain is pronounced in some negs. Is -120 a general consensus done by empirical testing, or a rcommendation by flexcolor ? Using photokit after - do you change mode to rgb> select Capture sharpeer>35 fast negative (as appropriate) > medium edge sharpen (as appropriate ? AF icon (auto focus?) - there is a little AF icon/button - should this be 'dark' or 'light/faded' ? Some scans appear a tad soft? Gamma - is there a place to set this to 2.2 ? I used the levels histogram, and found that the A (auto) worked well to bring the white and black points to the edges of the histogram. I could manually change them as well as the midpoint. And I could also change the midtones with Gradations/curves. But...my scans are still mostly too light and flat. I selected Greyscale 16 bit B&W negative. I figured that the film grain would overide a bit of noise and the benefit of rgb. The files were 100mb anyway as GS. What is the maximum Optical (non interpolated) res of the Imacon (848) - I used 6300ppi. Unfortunately there was no-one to train me just a young person that clearly didn't know the answers to any of this. Thanks for any further clarification. Frank --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Kohl <pkohl@...> wrote:
> > I use an Imacon Flextight regularly and have done tests on black and > white negative scanning. My results are that scanning as a greyscale > positive gets me the most efficient and tonally comprehensive scans, > as another poster recommended. One important thing is to set the > Texture/Unsharp masking sharpening setting to -120 or else the > software will sharpen the image. This sharpening will increase grain > presence in the image. > I sharpen later in PS using the Photokit sharpened plug-in. > The Imacon is a great machine. > Good luck with it. > Paul >
2010-01-24 by E.Neilsen
Frank, I am assuming this is an hourly rental or a day structure; 1/2 or full day. Besides the scanning time, are you also being charged to write your files to your own media? or are you hooking up your own external drive? Did you give your self some test files to play with at various setting keeping the scanned area at the same ppi? This allows you to run a few sets of tests to see what those scan software setting are doing to your images. I remember it (-120) being the actual off setting or true 0. I typically give my self a little above and below clipping points dmax and dmin, and highly recommend it on a rented scanner to avoid clipping. See what they have defaults set to but you don't want to waste time rescanning only because you clipped your detail some place. Eric Neilsen Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 www.ericneilsenphotography.com skype me with ejprinter _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frankg_photo Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:18 AM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Scanning B We live and learn. I rented time and the scans are ok, but not great. I'll do better next time now that I'm more familiar with the interface and will be less panicked about maximizing my rental time at the lab. I could use a little more clarification from users please: Re: USM at -120 I had the usm palette boxes all set to 0 (one of the usm settings, I forget which, kept defaulting to 1) and indeed the grain is pronounced in some negs. Is -120 a general consensus done by empirical testing, or a rcommendation by flexcolor ? Using photokit after - do you change mode to rgb> select Capture sharpeer>35 fast negative (as appropriate) > medium edge sharpen (as appropriate ? AF icon (auto focus?) - there is a little AF icon/button - should this be 'dark' or 'light/faded' ? Some scans appear a tad soft? Gamma - is there a place to set this to 2.2 ? I used the levels histogram, and found that the A (auto) worked well to bring the white and black points to the edges of the histogram. I could manually change them as well as the midpoint. And I could also change the midtones with Gradations/curves. But...my scans are still mostly too light and flat. I selected Greyscale 16 bit B&W negative. I figured that the film grain would overide a bit of noise and the benefit of rgb. The files were 100mb anyway as GS. What is the maximum Optical (non interpolated) res of the Imacon (848) - I used 6300ppi. Unfortunately there was no-one to train me just a young person that clearly didn't know the answers to any of this. Thanks for any further clarification. Frank --- In DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Kohl <pkohl@...> wrote: > > I use an Imacon Flextight regularly and have done tests on black and > white negative scanning. My results are that scanning as a greyscale > positive gets me the most efficient and tonally comprehensive scans, > as another poster recommended. One important thing is to set the > Texture/Unsharp masking sharpening setting to -120 or else the > software will sharpen the image. This sharpening will increase grain > presence in the image. > I sharpen later in PS using the Photokit sharpened plug-in. > The Imacon is a great machine. > Good luck with it. > Paul > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-01-24 by frankg_photo
Yes, it's an hourly rental.And yes, all time is charged including writing the files (to cd). "-120 being the actual off setting or true 0" - I wonder if anyone with an Imacon (848) and Flexcolor 4.6 can verify this? "a little above and below clipping points dmax and dmin" - do you mean to keep the triangles a little off the edge of the histogram ? Is there a place to set the gamma/midpoints other than the middle triangle of the histogram ? Frank --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "E.Neilsen" <e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
> > Frank, I am assuming this is an hourly rental or a day structure; 1/2 or > full day. Besides the scanning time, are you also being charged to write > your files to your own media? or are you hooking up your own external drive? > Did you give your self some test files to play with at various setting > keeping the scanned area at the same ppi? This allows you to run a few sets > of tests to see what those scan software setting are doing to your images. > > > > > > I remember it (-120) being the actual off setting or true 0. I typically > give my self a little above and below clipping points dmax and dmin, and > highly recommend it on a rented scanner to avoid clipping. See what they > have defaults set to but you don't want to waste time rescanning only > because you clipped your detail some place. > > > > Eric Neilsen > > Eric Neilsen Photography > > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 > > Dallas, TX 75226 > > > > www.ericneilsenphotography.com > > skype me with ejprinter > > > > _____ > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > frankg_photo > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:18 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Scanning B > > > > > > We live and learn. > I rented time and the scans are ok, but not great. > I'll do better next time now that I'm more familiar with the interface and > will be less panicked about maximizing my rental time at the lab. I could > use a little more clarification from users please: > > Re: USM at -120 > I had the usm palette boxes all set to 0 (one of the usm settings, I forget > which, kept defaulting to 1) and indeed the grain is pronounced in some > negs. > Is -120 a general consensus done by empirical testing, or a rcommendation by > flexcolor ? > > Using photokit after - do you change mode to rgb> select Capture sharpeer>35 > fast negative (as appropriate) > medium edge sharpen (as appropriate ? > > AF icon (auto focus?) - there is a little AF icon/button - should this be > 'dark' or 'light/faded' ? Some scans appear a tad soft? > > Gamma - is there a place to set this to 2.2 ? > > I used the levels histogram, and found that the A (auto) worked well to > bring the white and black points to the edges of the histogram. I could > manually change them as well as the midpoint. And I could also change the > midtones with Gradations/curves. But...my scans are still mostly too light > and flat. > > I selected Greyscale 16 bit B&W negative. I figured that the film grain > would overide a bit of noise and the benefit of rgb. The files were 100mb > anyway as GS. > > What is the maximum Optical (non interpolated) res of the Imacon (848) - I > used 6300ppi. > > Unfortunately there was no-one to train me just a young person that clearly > didn't know the answers to any of this. > > Thanks for any further clarification. > Frank > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhit > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> > eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Kohl <pkohl@> wrote: > > > > I use an Imacon Flextight regularly and have done tests on black and > > white negative scanning. My results are that scanning as a greyscale > > positive gets me the most efficient and tonally comprehensive scans, > > as another poster recommended. One important thing is to set the > > Texture/Unsharp masking sharpening setting to -120 or else the > > software will sharpen the image. This sharpening will increase grain > > presence in the image. > > I sharpen later in PS using the Photokit sharpened plug-in. > > The Imacon is a great machine. > > Good luck with it. > > Paul > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2010-01-24 by Marks
Frank, To clarify some of your points. The USM setting of -120 is universally accepted setting in order to completely turn off sharpening in flexcolor. b. Gamma and other settings can be found in the set-up tab in the toolbar. AF functions when the button appears greyed out, and the gamma setting can be adjusted under set-up in the contrast tab. 2.2 can be easily selected. Mark
2010-01-24 by Ernst Dinkla
Marks schreef: > Frank, > > To clarify some of your points. The USM setting of -120 is > universally accepted setting in order to completely turn off > sharpening in flexcolor. b. Gamma and other settings can be found in > the set-up tab in the toolbar. AF functions when the button appears > greyed out, and the gamma setting can be adjusted under set-up in the > contrast tab. 2.2 can be easily selected. > > Mark I'm not familiar with the Flexcolor driver. The sharpening is a more or less hidden default setting and you gave the right instruction to get a true scan. Is there also a noise (grain) reduction by default? -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2010-01-24 by Marks
The (grain) reduction is also in set-up under the texture tab and should be set to 0 to turn it off. There is no (-) value for that setting. Mark
2010-01-25 by Paul Kohl
The -120 figure was quoted as being from tech support at Hasselblad/Imacon/Flextight. I have seen it on various groups such as this one and the Imacon users group (imaconusers@egroups.com), which you might consider joining if you continue to pursue this workflow. Paul -- Paul Kohl Visiting Professor, Photography Nanyang Technological University Singapore
2010-01-25 by Ernst Dinkla
Marks schreef: > The (grain) reduction is also in set-up under the texture tab and > should be set to 0 to turn it off. There is no (-) value for that > setting. > > Mark > Alright, often Imacon users think that they do not edit the image and get a straight scan from the machine while in fact there has been some image manipulation done automatically. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2010-01-25 by E.Neilsen
Hi Frank, Yes I mean keep the triangles, the set value points, away from what looks like your new 0 and new 255. Once you can verify your output values you can start to come a little closer, but always maintain a place for data at the top and the bottom, unless you wish to reinterpret your scene. To me, scanning is the first step in an interpretation of your image. If you now wish to change it you can, but unlike an initial exposure under the enlarger, the new exposure might require quite a bit more effort; a bit like digging the neg out of storage again. You may want to bring along a laptop if you have one, to start working on a file after completion of a scan to check your work while the rental unit is scanning your next image. Eric Neilsen Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 www.ericneilsenphotography.com skype me with ejprinter _____
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frankg_photo Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:21 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Scanning B&W Yes, it's an hourly rental.And yes, all time is charged including writing the files (to cd). "-120 being the actual off setting or true 0" - I wonder if anyone with an Imacon (848) and Flexcolor 4.6 can verify this? "a little above and below clipping points dmax and dmin" - do you mean to keep the triangles a little off the edge of the histogram ? Is there a place to set the gamma/midpoints other than the middle triangle of the histogram ? Frank --- In DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "E.Neilsen" <e.neilsen2@...> wrote: > > Frank, I am assuming this is an hourly rental or a day structure; 1/2 or > full day. Besides the scanning time, are you also being charged to write > your files to your own media? or are you hooking up your own external drive? > Did you give your self some test files to play with at various setting > keeping the scanned area at the same ppi? This allows you to run a few sets > of tests to see what those scan software setting are doing to your images. > > > > > > I remember it (-120) being the actual off setting or true 0. I typically > give my self a little above and below clipping points dmax and dmin, and > highly recommend it on a rented scanner to avoid clipping. See what they > have defaults set to but you don't want to waste time rescanning only > because you clipped your detail some place. > > > > Eric Neilsen > > Eric Neilsen Photography > > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 > > Dallas, TX 75226 > > > > www.ericneilsenphotography.com > > skype me with ejprinter > > > > _____ > > From: DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > frankg_photo > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:18 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhit <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Scanning B > > > > > > We live and learn. > I rented time and the scans are ok, but not great. > I'll do better next time now that I'm more familiar with the interface and > will be less panicked about maximizing my rental time at the lab. I could > use a little more clarification from users please: > > Re: USM at -120 > I had the usm palette boxes all set to 0 (one of the usm settings, I forget > which, kept defaulting to 1) and indeed the grain is pronounced in some > negs. > Is -120 a general consensus done by empirical testing, or a rcommendation by > flexcolor ? > > Using photokit after - do you change mode to rgb> select Capture sharpeer>35 > fast negative (as appropriate) > medium edge sharpen (as appropriate ? > > AF icon (auto focus?) - there is a little AF icon/button - should this be > 'dark' or 'light/faded' ? Some scans appear a tad soft? > > Gamma - is there a place to set this to 2.2 ? > > I used the levels histogram, and found that the A (auto) worked well to > bring the white and black points to the edges of the histogram. I could > manually change them as well as the midpoint. And I could also change the > midtones with Gradations/curves. But...my scans are still mostly too light > and flat. > > I selected Greyscale 16 bit B&W negative. I figured that the film grain > would overide a bit of noise and the benefit of rgb. The files were 100mb > anyway as GS. > > What is the maximum Optical (non interpolated) res of the Imacon (848) - I > used 6300ppi. > > Unfortunately there was no-one to train me just a young person that clearly > didn't know the answers to any of this. > > Thanks for any further clarification. > Frank > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhit > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> > eThePrint@yahoogrou <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, Paul Kohl <pkohl@> wrote: > > > > I use an Imacon Flextight regularly and have done tests on black and > > white negative scanning. My results are that scanning as a greyscale > > positive gets me the most efficient and tonally comprehensive scans, > > as another poster recommended. One important thing is to set the > > Texture/Unsharp masking sharpening setting to -120 or else the > > software will sharpen the image. This sharpening will increase grain > > presence in the image. > > I sharpen later in PS using the Photokit sharpened plug-in. > > The Imacon is a great machine. > > Good luck with it. > > Paul > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2010-01-25 by frankg_photo
quote "AF functions when the button appears greyed out" Just checking that this is what you intended because normally 'greyed out would mean 'off', and highlighted would mean 'on' ? Thanks, Frank --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Marks <mark@...> wrote:
> > Frank, > > To clarify some of your points. The USM setting of -120 is > universally accepted setting in order to completely turn off > sharpening in flexcolor. b. Gamma and other settings can be found in > the set-up tab in the toolbar. AF functions when the button appears > greyed out, and the gamma setting can be adjusted under set-up in the > contrast tab. 2.2 can be easily selected. > > Mark >