Fairlight-CMI

I'm helping out a friend who bought a malfunctioning IIx. Both drives don't work.

It took us a whole afternoon to figure this out. It shows a distorted image while trying to boot from the system disk. However it's possible to boot from the QDOS disk.

We swapped all the cards from my working unit with his unit but the result was always the same. 

The left drive is the least functioning one. You can hear its motor running when you insert a disk but it doesn't perform any read actions. You don't hear it's head clicking. Inserting a system disk in it will tell us that it's an unidentified system disk.

The right drive has a strange issue. And it was this that through us of when we were debugging the IIx. It will boot from a QDOS disk but it won't boot from a system disk. 
It starts to boot from the system disk. You can hear it click regularly for 5 times after which it stops. The screen will then show a random distorted image.

I see 2 options:

1. Repairing the drives. But I don't have any experience with this. So, does anyone have any experience that he/she wants to share?

2. Installing a HxC drive. But I don't have a clue how I would do this. I'd love to have some proper instructions to try this out.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com

Hi David,

Did you check whether the drives are 50 Hz models ?
Both drives defect sounds not too likely.
Could also be smear on the heads, oxidization or dust or a broken center
pressure ring ?

Are all the cards in the right slot ?

Regards,
Harald

> I'm helping out a friend who bought a malfunctioning IIx. Both drives
> don't work.
>
> It took us a whole afternoon to figure this out. It shows a distorted
> image while trying to boot from the system disk. However it's possible to
> boot from the QDOS disk.
>
> We swapped all the cards from my working unit with his unit but the result
> was always the same.
>
> The left drive is the least functioning one. You can hear its motor
> running when you insert a disk but it doesn't perform any read actions.
> You don't hear it's head clicking. Inserting a system disk in it will tell
> us that it's an unidentified system disk.
>
> The right drive has a strange issue. And it was this that through us of
> when we were debugging the IIx. It will boot from a QDOS disk but it won't
> boot from a system disk.
> It starts to boot from the system disk. You can hear it click regularly
> for 5 times after which it stops. The screen will then show a random
> distorted image.
>
> I see 2 options:
>
> 1. Repairing the drives. But I don't have any experience with this. So,
> does anyone have any experience that he/she wants to share?
>
> 2. Installing a HxC drive. But I don't have a clue how I would do this.
> I'd love to have some proper instructions to try this out.
>
> David
> http://dvdborn.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Hi,

I had some issues with one of my drives as well some time ago and the problem was the very
old and sticky fluid or oil in the cylinder inside the mechanical part. 
After moving this forth and back several times and fill in some new lubricate its was working again.
So that's why it's a good idea to keep the drives doing something and not let them unused for any longer time :-) 

Also your Floppies could be faulty as well or not compatible from the working to the defunct one in some way.

Best,

Thomas

On Mar 7, 2013, at 11:40 PM, dvdborn wrote:

I'm helping out a friend who bought a malfunctioning IIx. Both drives don't work.

It took us a whole afternoon to figure this out. It shows a distorted image while trying to boot from the system disk. However it's possible to boot from the QDOS disk.

We swapped all the cards from my working unit with his unit but the result was always the same. 

The left drive is the least functioning one. You can hear its motor running when you insert a disk but it doesn't perform any read actions. You don't hear it's head clicking. Inserting a system disk in it will tell us that it's an unidentified system disk.

The right drive has a strange issue. And it was this that through us of when we were debugging the IIx. It will boot from a QDOS disk but it won't boot from a system disk. 
It starts to boot from the system disk. You can hear it click regularly for 5 times after which it stops. The screen will then show a random distorted image.

I see 2 options:

1. Repairing the drives. But I don't have any experience with this. So, does anyone have any experience that he/she wants to share?

2. Installing a HxC drive. But I don't have a clue how I would do this. I'd love to have some proper instructions to try this out.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Thomas P. Heckmann
Trope Recordings - AFU Limited - AFULAB - trope mastering

Hi,

Big thanks to everyone for the suggestions on getting the drives fixed. It gave me some great pointers on where to look.

I'll be taking the drives out of the IIx this weekend and will give them a good cleaning.

I don't know yet if the drives are 50 Hz models. But I'm guessing this will be marked on them somewhere? As far as we know the unit has always been in Europe. This particular unit was bought in France.

I checked that all the cards in the IIx are positioned in the right slots. 

There could be an alignment problem between the different drives. But we did try 3 different boot disks each one made on a different unit. These floppies could all be read by my IIx but not on the broken unit.

Another thing that I need to check out is the flat cable that runs from the disk controller card to the drives. It could be that this got damaged somehow.

I'll keep the forum posted.

Regards,
David

On 08/03/13 22:55, dvdborn wrote:

> I don't know yet if the drives are 50 Hz models. But I'm guessing
> this will be marked on them somewhere? As far as we know the unit has
> always been in Europe. This particular unit was bought in France.

On quite a few drives you could whip the drive pulley off the spindle, 
flip it over, and use the 50Hz or 60Hz step as appropriate.

They had strobe lines engraved on them so with a fluorescent light you 
could tell if they were running at the correct speed, or near as damn it.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

I removed both drives from the IIx and they didn't really looked like they needed any cleaning. There wasn't any grease or dirt to be seen.

You can have a look at both drives on this page that I quickly put together:

http://apple.phl.be/~dvdborn/Fairlight/IIx_drives/

There's also a sound recording of one of the drives trying to boot and a screen shot of the failing boot process.

Now that both drives are back in the IIx they both exhibit the same problem.

Before, only the the right side drive would try to boot. The left drive wouldn't do anything. Now, the left drive also tries to boot when it's selected as the boot drive.

So, there's some improvement. But I'm not quite there yet.

Best,
David

David
If you want to try one of my drives in your machine, give me a call!

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dvdborn" <dvdborn@...> wrote:

>
> I removed both drives from the IIx and they didn't really looked like they needed any cleaning. There wasn't any grease or dirt to be seen.
> 
> You can have a look at both drives on this page that I quickly put together:
> 
> http://apple.phl.be/~dvdborn/Fairlight/IIx_drives/
> 
> There's also a sound recording of one of the drives trying to boot and a screen shot of the failing boot process.
> 
> Now that both drives are back in the IIx they both exhibit the same problem.
> 
> Before, only the the right side drive would try to boot. The left drive wouldn't do anything. Now, the left drive also tries to boot when it's selected as the boot drive.
> 
> So, there's some improvement. But I'm not quite there yet.
> 
> Best,
> David
>

I was thinking the same. But I replaced the disk controller card with the one from my working IIx and the results were the same. The defective IIx still wouldn't boot. 

Next thing I need to try is place the faulty drives in my working unit and see if they work or not. 

David

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Vogel" <peter.vogel@...> wrote:

>
> If both drives are failing, doesn't that point to a controller fault?
> 
>  
> 
> From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of WT
> Sent: Monday, 11 March 2013 2:50 AM
> To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Floppy drive issues
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> Is the screw that holds the spindle loose ?
> 
>  
> 
> WT
> 
>  
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> From: David <mailto:davidmorley@...>  
> 
> To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com 
> 
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:07 PM
> 
> Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Floppy drive issues
> 
>  
> 
>   
> 
> 
> David
> If you want to try one of my drives in your machine, give me a call!
> 
> --- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dvdborn" <dvdborn@> wrote:
> >
> > I removed both drives from the IIx and they didn't really looked like they
> needed any cleaning. There wasn't any grease or dirt to be seen.
> > 
> > You can have a look at both drives on this page that I quickly put
> together:
> > 
> > http://apple.phl.be/~dvdborn/Fairlight/IIx_drives/
> > 
> > There's also a sound recording of one of the drives trying to boot and a
> screen shot of the failing boot process.
> > 
> > Now that both drives are back in the IIx they both exhibit the same
> problem.
> > 
> > Before, only the the right side drive would try to boot. The left drive
> wouldn't do anything. Now, the left drive also tries to boot when it's
> selected as the boot drive.
> > 
> > So, there's some improvement. But I'm not quite there yet.
> > 
> > Best,
> > David
> >
>

If both drives are failing, doesn't that point to a controller fault?

 

From: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of WT
Sent: Monday, 11 March 2013 2:50 AM
To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Floppy drive issues

 

  

Is the screw that holds the spindle loose ?

 

WT

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: David <mailto:davidmorley@gmx.net>  

To: Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 12:07 PM

Subject: [Fairlight-CMI] Re: Floppy drive issues

 

  


David
If you want to try one of my drives in your machine, give me a call!

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, "dvdborn" <dvdborn@...> wrote:
>
> I removed both drives from the IIx and they didn't really looked like they
needed any cleaning. There wasn't any grease or dirt to be seen.
> 
> You can have a look at both drives on this page that I quickly put
together:
> 
> http://apple.phl.be/~dvdborn/Fairlight/IIx_drives/
> 
> There's also a sound recording of one of the drives trying to boot and a
screen shot of the failing boot process.
> 
> Now that both drives are back in the IIx they both exhibit the same
problem.
> 
> Before, only the the right side drive would try to boot. The left drive
wouldn't do anything. Now, the left drive also tries to boot when it's
selected as the boot drive.

> 
> So, there's some improvement. But I'm not quite there yet.
> 
> Best,
> David
>

Hi David. Having repaired a lot of these drives, allow me to offer some advice: 

First make a whole bunch of system and QDOS floppies on a known good machine. Sometimes a bad drive will corrupt a good floppy, and you'll need a good reference.

Forget about mains frequency pulleys. This was only an issue with the older ugly full width beige drives. Since the later black half-width drives are DC only, they work with any supply.

Top trick! The toggle switch on the floppy controller board switches the IDs of the two drives, therefore RH drive becomes system, LH user files. Handy for isolating problems..

Lastly, I've fixed many a dirty oxidised R/W head in the following, fabulously lo-tech way: Put an old expendable floppy in the drive and arrange for the CMI to try and access it. At the same time gently push the head against the floppy surface. Obviously try this at your own risk!

Hope this is helpful,

Regards,

Peter 

Horizontal Productions Sydney

Well, I finally got her up and running!

Today I found the time to place one of the drives of the faulty IIx in my working IIx.
And to me surprise the drive worked like a charm.

So back to square 1 and think everything over again. 

When I first started to debug the IIx I replaced each card with a working one from my IIx.
What I didn't notice was that the RAM card Q256 was in the left slot. While on my unit the RAM card is in the right slot.

So when I put the RAM card in the right slot she would boot.

A big thanks to everyone on the forum for their help!
Thanks to the tips I was able to restore the left hand drive which didn't do anything at first.

David