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starting with SMD

starting with SMD

2008-01-29 by Eeks Sdfgvbsdfgggggggg

hi all, i'm new on this list :) i want to jump from through-hole to SMD and i see there are a lot new things you have to deal with! 

is it easier/cheapier to solder with a hot air gun or with a modified cheap oven? 

if you have SSOP and that kind of small ic's you have to use soldermask to avoid a big soldermess don't you? well, you only have to buy a cheap laminator (20-30€) and get some dry-film soldermask, expose it, cure it and voila, doesn't seem to be very complicated

do you buy solderpaste in any electronic component store or do you have to buy it online in a US store like digikey? (i'm in europe and the problem with soldermask is you have to keep it cool) 

are there any hints for a SMD-newbie or typical errors you do when starting?

regards
       
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] starting with SMD

2008-01-30 by DJ Delorie

Eeks Sdfgvbsdfgggggggg <eeks123@...> writes:

> is it easier/cheapier to solder with a hot air gun or with a
> modified cheap oven?

I use a hotplate for most of my smt, and a 0.020" conical tip iron for
the rest.  http://www.delorie.com/pcb/hotplate/

More near the bottom of: http://geda.seul.org/projects/djs_pcbs/

> if you have SSOP and that kind of small ic's you have to use
> soldermask to avoid a big soldermess don't you?

Nope.  I've done down to 0.5mm pitch parts with no mask.  In fact, at
those small sizes, the average proto fab can't put mask between pads
anyway, and the solder would just bridge those tiny mask strips
anyway.

You may need a mask if you have other traces between those pins,
though, if you find you're getting bridges to those.  Only because
it's harder to get the braid down there to clean them up.

> do you buy solderpaste in any electronic component store or do you
> have to buy it online in a US store like digikey? (i'm in europe and
> the problem with soldermask is you have to keep it cool)

I got some SynTECH paste online.  It doesn't need to be kept cool.  My
one syringe of it has been in use for over a year and still seems fine
to me.  Unfortunately, the place I got it from doesn't offer it any
more.

> are there any hints for a SMD-newbie or typical errors you do when
> starting?

What I like to do is dab a little solder paste on the pads (manually,
with the syringe), place the part on the paste, and use the iron to
heat the copper until the paste melts.

For the really small parts, the wire solder is "big" enough that
surface tension tends to pull on the part.

For hand-soldering chips, my philosophy has become "put more than
enough on, then take off the extra".  Don't skimp on the solder at
first; it's faster to be slightly excessive than to go back and try
again on cold joints.  If you create a bridge, they're easy enough to
remove with some copper braid.

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] starting with SMD

2008-01-30 by Tony Burch

> hi all, i'm new on this list :) i want to jump from through-hole to

> SMD and i see there are a lot new things you have to deal with! 

> 

> is it easier/cheapier to solder with a hot air gun or with a modified

> cheap oven?

 

Hi Eeks, welcome!

For soldering, I've found it's faster to use a toaster oven than a

hot-air-gun or hot-air-soldering station. With an oven you can do several

boards or a whole panel at once. For desoldering, a hot-air-desoldering

station is good.

 

> 

> if you have SSOP and that kind of small ic's you have to use soldermask

> to avoid a big soldermess don't you? well, you only have to buy a cheap

> laminator (20-30€) and get some dry-film soldermask, expose it, cure it

> and voila, doesn't seem to be very complicated

 

Without soldermask is fine. Make sure you use plenty of gel flux when

soldering.

 

> 

> do you buy solderpaste in any electronic component store or do you have

> to buy it online in a US store like digikey? (i'm in europe and the

> problem with soldermask is you have to keep it cool) 

> 

 

It's worth searching for your local supplier of soldering tools &

consumables store to buy solderpaste. The online stores like Digikey,

Farnell (NewarK), and RS can tend to be more expensive than your

local supplier.

In Australia, my supplier is Okay Technologies

http://www.okay.com.au/shop/login.php

 

They deliver the stuff straight to my door, in a little foam

Esky with a cold-pack inside to keep the solderpaste and other

stuff cool.

 

> are there any hints for a SMD-newbie or typical errors you do when

> starting?

 

Check out my site http://www.SuperSolderingSecrets.com <http://www.supersolderingsecrets.com/> 

 

Also some articles at

http://supersolderingsecrets.com/articles.html

 

> 

> regards

 

Kind regards,

Anthony Burch 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] starting with SMD

2008-01-30 by Dylan Smith

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, Eeks Sdfgvbsdfgggggggg wrote:

> is it easier/cheapier to solder with a hot air gun or with a modified
> cheap oven?

I have only soldered SMD so far with a soldering iron - the same one I use
for through hole, with the same bit (a 0.5mm pointy tip). This has worked
fine right down to 0.4mm pitch LQFP (SSOP is 0.5mm pitch).

SSOP's quite easy to do with a soldering iron. The square chips are
trickier mainly because they require more care lining up since you have 4
sides to get properly aligned on the tiny pads, and often aligning one
side you end up putting the other side you carefully aligned out. A
magnifying glass and a gentle touch with a small screwdriver is the best
way I've found of getting a TQFP or LQFP properly aligned.

> if you have SSOP and that kind of small ic's you have to use soldermask
> to avoid a big soldermess don't you? well, you only have to buy a cheap
> laminator (20-30€) and get some dry-film soldermask, expose it, cure it
> and voila, doesn't seem to be very complicated

No, you don't need a solder mask, and in any case, there's not likely to
be any soldermask between pads on a 0.4mm pitch LQFP or similar.

My method is to tack a couple of pins, then just 'drag solder' the rest
not caring that some of the pins will bridge, then clean up with solder
wick. The solder wick will suck up any solder bridges, but leave the
solder that's attaching pins to pads.

Have a look at the tutorials on the Sparkfun.com website, they show how
you can hand solder as well as hot air solder.

Passives down to 0603 size are actually faster to hand solder than through
hole passives - no need to turn the board over, and no need to clip off
lead ends! With passives, I put a small blob of solder on one pad, grab
the part with tweezers, remelt the solder while moving the end of the part
into the blob. Then remove tweezers and solder the other terminal.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] starting with SMD

2008-01-30 by Stefan Trethan

While i agree that it can be soldered with an iron i would highly
recommend basic SMD tools. Speeds up the process a lot and is more
gentle to the PCB. A hot air station costs from 50eur upwards, and
initially populating boards with paste is also MUCH faster than manual
soldering. If you are serious about it the right tools are always
worth the money.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 30, 2008 9:50 AM, Dylan Smith <dyls@...> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008, Eeks Sdfgvbsdfgggggggg wrote:
>
> > is it easier/cheapier to solder with a hot air gun or with a modified
> > cheap oven?
>
> I have only soldered SMD so far with a soldering iron - the same one I use
> for through hole, with the same bit (a 0.5mm pointy tip). This has worked
> fine right down to 0.4mm pitch LQFP (SSOP is 0.5mm pitch).
>
> SSOP's quite easy to do with a soldering iron. The square chips are
> trickier mainly because they require more care lining up since you have 4
> sides to get properly aligned on the tiny pads, and often aligning one
> side you end up putting the other side you carefully aligned out. A
> magnifying glass and a gentle touch with a small screwdriver is the best
> way I've found of getting a TQFP or LQFP properly aligned.
>
> > if you have SSOP and that kind of small ic's you have to use soldermask
> > to avoid a big soldermess don't you? well, you only have to buy a cheap
> > laminator (20-30€) and get some dry-film soldermask, expose it, cure it
> > and voila, doesn't seem to be very complicated
>
> No, you don't need a solder mask, and in any case, there's not likely to
> be any soldermask between pads on a 0.4mm pitch LQFP or similar.
>
> My method is to tack a couple of pins, then just 'drag solder' the rest
> not caring that some of the pins will bridge, then clean up with solder
> wick. The solder wick will suck up any solder bridges, but leave the
> solder that's attaching pins to pads.
>
> Have a look at the tutorials on the Sparkfun.com website, they show how
> you can hand solder as well as hot air solder.
>
> Passives down to 0603 size are actually faster to hand solder than through
> hole passives - no need to turn the board over, and no need to clip off
> lead ends! With passives, I put a small blob of solder on one pad, grab
> the part with tweezers, remelt the solder while moving the end of the part
> into the blob. Then remove tweezers and solder the other terminal.
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] starting with SMD

2008-01-30 by Leon

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Eeks Sdfgvbsdfgggggggg" <eeks123@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 11:20 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] starting with SMD


hi all, i'm new on this list :) i want to jump from through-hole to SMD and 
i see there are a lot new things you have to deal with!

is it easier/cheapier to solder with a hot air gun or with a modified cheap 
oven?

if you have SSOP and that kind of small ic's you have to use soldermask to 
avoid a big soldermess don't you? well, you only have to buy a cheap 
laminator (20-30?) and get some dry-film soldermask, expose it, cure it and 
voila, doesn't seem to be very complicated

do you buy solderpaste in any electronic component store or do you have to 
buy it online in a US store like digikey? (i'm in europe and the problem 
with soldermask is you have to keep it cool)

are there any hints for a SMD-newbie or typical errors you do when starting?

I don't have any problems soldering SSOPs on my home-made PCBs, without a 
solder-mask, using my soldering iron with a mini-hoof tip for 
drag-soldering.

Leon

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by eeks123

hi!

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

> I use a hotplate for most of my smt, and a 0.020" conical tip iron for
> the rest.  http://www.delorie.com/pcb/hotplate/
> 
> More near the bottom of: http://geda.seul.org/projects/djs_pcbs/
>

if you have to keep the board moving and you have a lot of components
on it, it seems almost impossible to keep everything on place :( 

and tip ironing lots of small components seems to be a stressing task,
i'd use it only for small corrections, clean up and desoldering. 

i think i'll have to buy an oven. it's very handy to solder everything
in one step, at the same time. and you use it to cure dry-films too,
and to dry moisture sensitive components before soldering

 
> I got some SynTECH paste online.  It doesn't need to be kept cool.  My
> one syringe of it has been in use for over a year and still seems fine
> to me.  Unfortunately, the place I got it from doesn't offer it any
> more.


i'm looking at different online stores and websites and that one looks
pretty well.. there are a lot different solderpaste types with
different shelf-life's, cooled/uncooled, lead-free, no-clean.. best
would be if it's uncooled to avoid having to store it with food heh :)
no-clean, uncooled and not-lead-free seems to be the best choice

thank you for the tips, infos and advices!

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by DJ Delorie

"eeks123" <eeks123@...> writes:
> if you have to keep the board moving and you have a lot of components
> on it, it seems almost impossible to keep everything on place :( 

I've found the opposite to be true.  I've done 5.5 x 3.5 boards on
that hotplate, moving it around the whole time, and nothing moved out
of place.

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by eeks123

> Hi Eeks, welcome!
> 
> For soldering, I've found it's faster to use a toaster oven than a
> 
> hot-air-gun or hot-air-soldering station. With an oven you can do
several
> 
> boards or a whole panel at once. For desoldering, a hot-air-desoldering
> 
> station is good.
> 
>

thank you! i think reflow soldering will be the best too. when etching
pcb's i try to make several at a time to avoid wasting chemicals.
soldering each smd component on each board seems to be a little bit a
torture.. and for dry-film laminating you need an oven too, and to dry
moisture sensitive components. i think it's worth investing in a cheap
oven :)




> Without soldermask is fine. Make sure you use plenty of gel flux when
> 
> soldering.


solderpaste has already flux, is it necessary to add more? i wanted to
try for my first time flux (water based no-clean seems the best one)
but thought it isn't necessary if the solderpaste already has..



> Check out my site http://www.SuperSolderingSecrets.com
<http://www.supersolderingsecrets.com/> 
> 
>  
> 
> Also some articles at
> 
> http://supersolderingsecrets.com/articles.html
> 
>  


you have a great website! i've been reading article 5, the others talk
about hand soldering, something i'll try to avoid if possible :)


thank you for the advices and all the info anthony


regards

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by eeks123

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> "eeks123" <eeks123@...> writes:
> > if you have to keep the board moving and you have a lot of components
> > on it, it seems almost impossible to keep everything on place :( 
> 
> I've found the opposite to be true.  I've done 5.5 x 3.5 boards on
> that hotplate, moving it around the whole time, and nothing moved out
> of place.
>


it's logical if components are sticked to the board with solderpaste!
i have no experience with this and thought they would move around..

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by Stefan Trethan

>
> solderpaste has already flux, is it necessary to add more? i wanted to
> try for my first time flux (water based no-clean seems the best one)
> but thought it isn't necessary if the solderpaste already has..
>

You are right the solderpaste already has plenty of flux.
It is enough for the initial soldering, and you can also replace
components if need be without adding any solder or flux, at least that
is what i find. It is hard to distinguish between a reflow soldered
part and one replaced using hot air. If a lot of part swapping is
needed additional solder paste or wire solder needs to be applied from
time to time, or you get dry joints.

>
> you have a great website! i've been reading article 5, the others talk
> about hand soldering, something i'll try to avoid if possible :)

You will have to get proficient at it too. If you develop circuits of
any complexity changes need to be made.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by Stefan Trethan

On Jan 31, 2008 9:15 PM, eeks123 <eeks123@...> wrote:
> > I've found the opposite to be true.  I've done 5.5 x 3.5 boards on
> > that hotplate, moving it around the whole time, and nothing moved out
> > of place.

> it's logical if components are sticked to the board with solderpaste!
> i have no experience with this and thought they would move around..


Basically that is the idea, yes. But if you reflow with hot air
instead of an oven this doesn't always work perfectly. Some part
shapes tend to be pushed around by the air, like MELF diodes.
It also depends on the solderpaste used, some stays in shape when hot
and some melts and forms large puddles on which the components swim
around. Sadly the one i found which doesn't spoil too fast forms the
large puddles, but i figure better that than throwing out hard paste
all the time.
With an oven or hotplate it is better, because there is no air stream.
But you still need to observe some layout considerations for parts to
stay put. Always think surface tension. In the worst case you will
only have to rework a few parts, so that's not really a problem.


ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by DJ Delorie

"eeks123" <eeks123@...> writes:
> i have no experience with this and thought they would move around.. 

Nope, the solder paste is like tacky glue.  You can still bump the
parts and mess them up (been there) but if you don't, they pretty much
stay stuck where you put them.  Which is good, because the board gets
moved around a lot while you're placing all those parts.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by Markus Zingg

You definately positively don't need an over for dry-film laminating. 
You definately don't need it for the artwork develop etch cycle. You 
COULD use one in case the laminate is solder stop maks laminate but even 
there you can harden it using the UV exposure unit you need anways to 
work with laminate.

Markus

[snip]
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> torture.. and for dry-film laminating you need an oven too,
>

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by eeks123

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 

> You are right the solderpaste already has plenty of flux.
> It is enough for the initial soldering, and you can also replace
> components if need be without adding any solder or flux, at least that
> is what i find. It is hard to distinguish between a reflow soldered
> part and one replaced using hot air. If a lot of part swapping is
> needed additional solder paste or wire solder needs to be applied from
> time to time, or you get dry joints.

great! solderpaste is an all-in-one solution. i haven't even started
with this and love it! :) 

 
> You will have to get proficient at it too. If you develop circuits of
> any complexity changes need to be made.

i know.. it would be like a doctor without scalpel, but i meant i'll
concentrate first in learning how to solder with a reflow oven.
corrections have to be made with classical hand soldering. i'll
reserve my first disastrous experiences with this for a near future..
(i'm still amazed everytime i look at the tiny pins on the ic's)

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by eeks123

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Markus Zingg <homebrew-pcb@...>
wrote:
>
> You definately positively don't need an over for dry-film laminating. 
> You definately don't need it for the artwork develop etch cycle. You 
> COULD use one in case the laminate is solder stop maks laminate but
even 
> there you can harden it using the UV exposure unit you need anways to 
> work with laminate.
> 
> Markus
> 
> [snip]
> >
> > torture.. and for dry-film laminating you need an oven too,
> >
>


yes, i was talking about soldermask dry-film. i've seen the dupont
soldermask requieres uv+bake cure but bungard soldermask can be cured
only with uv or both

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by javaguy11111

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> "eeks123" <eeks123@...> writes:
> > i have no experience with this and thought they would move around.. 
> 
> Nope, the solder paste is like tacky glue.  You can still bump the
> parts and mess them up (been there) but if you don't, they pretty much
> stay stuck where you put them.  Which is good, because the board gets
> moved around a lot while you're placing all those parts.
>

Tacky enough that I have populated boards on both sides at the same
time then stuck in the oven. The parts that went on the bottom side
were smaller items like 0402 chip capacitors, but they did not go
anywhere.

Of course if you do that you will need to add feet to the board so it
is not resting on the bottom.

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by eeks123

> Basically that is the idea, yes. But if you reflow with hot air
> instead of an oven this doesn't always work perfectly. Some part
> shapes tend to be pushed around by the air, like MELF diodes.

yes, air flow and small components are apparently a bad combination. i
suppose it's a try-and-try-again until you learn which distance is
best, taking care where you point with the gun at, how much time a
component can be exposed to that temperature, etc. you can solder a
lot faster than with an oven, but you need to learn how to work with
it. plus chances to damage something seem to be higher, when
learning/starting


> It also depends on the solderpaste used, some stays in shape when hot
> and some melts and forms large puddles on which the components swim
> around. 

i didn't knew there are two types, i supposed all components would
swim, and that was also a reason to use soldermask -to avoid
solderpaste flowing away through tracks-. so the first one is better
but has a shorter shelf-life :( how do you know which type of
solderpaste you are buying? through composition?


> But you still need to observe some layout considerations for parts to
> stay put. Always think surface tension. 

i've seen this explained on a webpage, it's important the way tracks
go to the component, and also if there any very near to it.



regards

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by eeks123

> Tacky enough that I have populated boards on both sides at the same
> time then stuck in the oven. The parts that went on the bottom side
> were smaller items like 0402 chip capacitors, but they did not go
> anywhere.
> 
> Of course if you do that you will need to add feet to the board so it
> is not resting on the bottom.
>


amazing! when solderpaste gets liquid components should drop.. that's
a question i was making myself, is it possible to populate components
on both sides when reflow-soldering? i thought you had to hand-solder
components on the second side, if not, bad things would happen..

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by javaguy11111

Surface tension keeps them stuck on as the solder melts. I have not
tried doing that with bigger components so I do not know what the
limit is.

One thing you do have to worry about with surface tension is
tombstoneing. That is when a small part like an 0402 or 0201 pops up
vertically while reflow soldering. It can happen when you do not get
the amount of solder paste even on both pads,the part was not evenly
placed over the solder paste or there is uneven heating of the board. 

That is when it comes in handy to have a good quality soldering iron 
and a magnifier to lay the part back down.



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "eeks123" <eeks123@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> > Tacky enough that I have populated boards on both sides at the same
> > time then stuck in the oven. The parts that went on the bottom side
> > were smaller items like 0402 chip capacitors, but they did not go
> > anywhere.
> > 
> > Of course if you do that you will need to add feet to the board so it
> > is not resting on the bottom.
> >
> 
> 
> amazing! when solderpaste gets liquid components should drop.. that's
> a question i was making myself, is it possible to populate components
> on both sides when reflow-soldering? i thought you had to hand-solder
> components on the second side, if not, bad things would happen..
>

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by tonyburch2001

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "eeks123" <eeks123@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > Tacky enough that I have populated boards on both sides at the 
same
> > time then stuck in the oven. The parts that went on the bottom 
side
> > were smaller items like 0402 chip capacitors, but they did not go
> > anywhere.
> > 
> > Of course if you do that you will need to add feet to the board 
so it
> > is not resting on the bottom.
> >
> 
> 
> amazing! when solderpaste gets liquid components should drop.. 
that's
> a question i was making myself, is it possible to populate 
components
> on both sides when reflow-soldering? i thought you had to hand-
solder
> components on the second side, if not, bad things would happen..
>

Hi Eeks,
Yes! The smaller chip components will not fall off - surface tension 
holds them pretty tight. Even if you give the board a little jolt 
while the solder is molten, they will generally still not fall off.

You can even put larger components on the bottom of the board, such 
as quad flat packs, SOICs, SOTs, SMT electrolytic or tantalum 
capacitors etc. but to do that you need to put a tiny little dot of 
glue underneath the component before you place it.

It is a bit dicey doing this by hand though, because when you place 
the component it needs to be lined up perfectly - you can't use the 
surface tension to help you with pulling the component into alignment 
in this case.

I've done the glue dot method at a factory before. We made a stencil 
just for applying the glue. Then the board went into an automatic 
pick and place machine to place the components on top of the glue 
dots.

Anthony Burch http://www.SuperSolderingSecrets.com

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by Markus Zingg

If I have components on both sides, I just do the simpler side first, 
reflow it, then do the other side. No part ever felt off so far. I've 
not yet been brave enough to populate both sides and do it in one 
shot.... :-) Nice to hear that this would be an option also. I prefer 
the two step aproach cause you then don't have to be THAT carefull with 
not disturbing the already populated but not yet reflowed side.

Markus

eeks123 schrieb:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> > Tacky enough that I have populated boards on both sides at the same
> > time then stuck in the oven. The parts that went on the bottom side
> > were smaller items like 0402 chip capacitors, but they did not go
> > anywhere.
> >
> > Of course if you do that you will need to add feet to the board so it
> > is not resting on the bottom.
> >
>
> amazing! when solderpaste gets liquid components should drop.. that's
> a question i was making myself, is it possible to populate components
> on both sides when reflow-soldering? i thought you had to hand-solder
> components on the second side, if not, bad things would happen..
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by Stefan Trethan

On Jan 31, 2008 11:27 PM, eeks123 <eeks123@...> wrote:
> yes, air flow and small components are apparently a bad combination. i
> suppose it's a try-and-try-again until you learn which distance is
> best, taking care where you point with the gun at, how much time a
> component can be exposed to that temperature, etc. you can solder a
> lot faster than with an oven, but you need to learn how to work with
> it. plus chances to damage something seem to be higher, when
> learning/starting

Actually, once the solder is reflowed there is no problem. The surface
tension of solder is huge. It is no problem to use hot air on
components that are already soldered, unless you select a really much
too high air setting. The problem is when reflowing fresh paste. Some
types have a flux that "melts", resulting in puddles of flux/solder
mixture. Other types don't seem to run about so much.

Also, there is not that much chance of damage. It appears the heat is
"softer" than the heat shock from an iron. Even if component
manufacturers only guarantee two solder cycles or so, you can usually
reflow a component many times without damage. The same is true for
damage to the PCB. I have swapped components with hot air 20, 30 times
for sure, without any harm to the PCB pads. As long as the temperature
is correct and you do not apply force all is well.

>
> i didn't knew there are two types, i supposed all components would
> swim, and that was also a reason to use soldermask -to avoid
> solderpaste flowing away through tracks-. so the first one is better
> but has a shorter shelf-life :( how do you know which type of
> solderpaste you are buying? through composition?

There are definitely large differences in paste viscosity during
heating. The one i use now is Edsyn CR44. This stuff could never be
used for mass production, it melts like chocolate when you get near it
with the heat. But it dries very slowly, making it practical for lab
use. I have tried other types but the syringes either came half dry or
dried before i could use them up. Some pastes dry up instead of
melting, with those there is virtually none of that puddle making.
Alloy composition seems to be of little consequence in this regard,
the flux and other additives seem more important.
Traces don't carry away much solder, and you can always apply a little
extra if broad traces connect. Remember surface tension, solder
_likes_ to make a nice fillet between component and PCB. It does not
like to spread out in a flat sheet.


> i've seen this explained on a webpage, it's important the way tracks
> go to the component, and also if there any very near to it.

You've done your homework then. Don't think to much about it though,
you'll quickly learn what to avoid by experience and the faults are
easy to rework even if something is pulled where it shouldn't go.

ST

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by tonyburch2001

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Markus Zingg <homebrew-pcb@...> 
wrote:
>
> If I have components on both sides, I just do the simpler side 
first, 
> reflow it, then do the other side. No part ever felt off so far. 
I've 
> not yet been brave enough to populate both sides and do it in one 
> shot.... :-) Nice to hear that this would be an option also. I 
prefer 
> the two step aproach cause you then don't have to be THAT carefull 
with 
> not disturbing the already populated but not yet reflowed side.
> 
> Markus
> 
> eeks123 schrieb:
> >
> >
> > > Tacky enough that I have populated boards on both sides at the 
same

I definitely think Markus's method of reflowing twice, as opposed to 
using glue dots etc. is a much better method to use unless the 
components on the bottom of your board are large (maybe bigger than a 
SOT23). I would expect that even the bigger components might not fall 
off.

As I mentioned before, if you use glue dots you have to make sure 
your component is perfectly lined up. It is not a very forgiving 
method when doing it by hand. It's always nice to have the "gift of 
surface tension" to pull the component into alignment during refolow.

It's important to be a doer and try it out. If a component falls off 
the bottom during the second reflow, then maybe think about using a 
tiny glue dot, just for the component(s) that fell off.

Anthony Burch http://www.SuperSolderingSecrets.com

Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by javaguy11111

I have done it in one trip to the oven because I was concerned  with
the effects of heating the board and components twice. My little
toaster over isn't that great.


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Markus Zingg <homebrew-pcb@...>
wrote:
>
> If I have components on both sides, I just do the simpler side first, 
> reflow it, then do the other side. No part ever felt off so far. I've 
> not yet been brave enough to populate both sides and do it in one 
> shot.... :-) Nice to hear that this would be an option also. I prefer 
> the two step aproach cause you then don't have to be THAT carefull with 
> not disturbing the already populated but not yet reflowed side.
> 
> Markus
> 
> eeks123 schrieb:
> >
> >
> > > Tacky enough that I have populated boards on both sides at the same
> > > time then stuck in the oven. The parts that went on the bottom side
> > > were smaller items like 0402 chip capacitors, but they did not go
> > > anywhere.
> > >
> > > Of course if you do that you will need to add feet to the board
so it
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > is not resting on the bottom.
> > >
> >
> > amazing! when solderpaste gets liquid components should drop.. that's
> > a question i was making myself, is it possible to populate components
> > on both sides when reflow-soldering? i thought you had to hand-solder
> > components on the second side, if not, bad things would happen..
> >
> >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: starting with SMD

2008-01-31 by Stefan Trethan

Most components seem to specify two solder cycles, i always thought
that was the reason.

But then, they also expect a $$$$$$ temperature profile oven, not
something meant to do pizza in, so maybe you have a point there ;-)

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Feb 1, 2008 12:25 AM, javaguy11111 <javaguy11111@...> wrote:
> I have done it in one trip to the oven because I was concerned  with
> the effects of heating the board and components twice. My little
> toaster over isn't that great.
>

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