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2007-02-28 by Chaz
I am looking to purchase a Vocoder or voice fx plugin for Logic, and I was wondering if anyone would suggest a few that works well for them. I use MAC & PC, so please let me know the platform you are on. The types of effects I am trying to get are similar to the vocal effects you hear on Chers song Do you Believe, and many of BTs songs. Thanks in advance for your assistance! Chaz [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-02-28 by charles shriner
No need to buy one. There is a wonderful vocoder that comes with logic! The "Cher effect"... can be achieved with Melodyne or Auto-Tune in combination with a vocoder. I read an article describing how that was achieved although I don't remember the exact effects. On Feb 28, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Chaz wrote: > I am looking to purchase a Vocoder or voice fx plugin for Logic, > and I was wondering if anyone would suggest a few that works well > for them. I use MAC & PC, so please let me know the platform you > are on. > > The types of effects I am trying to get are similar to the vocal > effects you hear on Cher�s song Do you Believe, and many of BT�s > songs. > > Thanks in advance for your assistance! > > Chaz > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-02-28 by Nigel Robinson
If you are currently using Logic Express, but can't afford to upgrade to Pro, you could try this: http://www.cycling74.com/products/pluggo Last time I looked it contained a feature enabling you to "side chain" an audio track into a synth instrument (EXSP etc.) - a feature disabled in Express - so you can control the sound with a second signal (your voice). It costs $199, but that's a lot cheaper than going Pro. Don't take my word for it though, download the demo - I'm not sure how many features made it into the latest version (they dropped VST conversion to AU in the last update) or whether it's Universal Binary yet. Nige --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, charles shriner <charles@...> wrote:
> > No need to buy one. There is a wonderful vocoder that comes with logic!> > On Feb 28, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Chaz wrote: > > > I am looking to purchase a Vocoder or voice fx plugin for Logic > > > > Chaz
2007-02-28 by Man Parrish
Chaz, As "unofficial" king of the vocoders..lol I can make a few suggestions. First you have to decide what you want to do "vocoder wise". Do you want it as a background effect for a few words, or as a lead vocal, or as a processor for drums or instruments. Logic has a built in Vocoder. It's pretty good, but I hardly use it. I personally don't think the filers are "clear" enough for lead vocoder vocals. But, it's great if you want to feed it drums and effects. Also metioned in a reply, is Logic's Pitch/Vocal processor. That creates the "cher" effect with extreme/fast settings . It's different from a vocoder but gives cool results. Back in the "old days" when I was doing my record. Planet Rock was being recorded in the same studio. They were the session before me. I hung out in the control room with Arthur Baker, etc.. They didn't have a vocoder. They used a digital delay line set for short delay [like 8 miliseconds] fed it the famous "Rock, Rock, Planet Rock vocal, and turned up the feedback. It gives an cool effect, but it's monotone and "tube" like sounding. All vocoders have an individual "sound" to them, like different violins or guitars. Some are warm and blurry, some are crisp and hard. Some are beautiful as an effect and nothing else. I personally LOVE the Prosonic Orange Vocoder [ http://products.prosoniq.com/cgi-bin/ register?service=showdetail&refno=30] BUT I don't think it's intel compatable. It's awsome at crisp clean lead and crystal clear vocoder vocals. It is AU and VST Also Elios Sound [ http://www.eiosis.com/elsvocoder ] just came out with an "Old Skool" type of vocoder. Has all the fun stuff that an old hardware version has AND has pitch tracking, so you can add it to a vocal track and it will attempt to follow the pitch of the vocal automatically! Damn cool ! It's a pretty good vocoder, I have it in my 'collection". only draw back is it uses a dongle [don't get me started...]. Usually the more "filters" a vocoder had, the clearer it is.. but listen before you buy ! Vocoder tips: Most people just plug it in and get poor results. In my 25 years of using them heavily, here's what I do. First. I ALWAYS heavily compress the vocal entering the vocoder [software or hardware vocoder]. It evens out the peaks and helps clarity. Don't foprget this step, its a night and day difference. I ususally use Sawtooh or Square waves with a bit of white noise added for sybilance [very important feature that people often ignore] People's brains need to hear those S's and T's to calculate what you're saying. Waveforms with high harmonic content give better results than a sine wave.. And here's the big one... You'll need learn to "Speak Vocoder-eese". Hello becomes "Heloue" and computer becomes com-puh-tah. You'll need to exagerate your vocals, if you plan on using it as a lead. There are are times you are tracking a vocal that's already recorded. Thats when I use the orange vocoder, it's clear and needs less attention, but vocals may get "blurry". If you can track specifically for the vocoder, you'll be light years ahead of the game. Try to have whomever is doing the vocal monitor the output and pla with vocal variations. Remember it's not importiant to "Sing" into a vocoder, its important to get those filters to open and close with your voice. Speaking rather than singing. Simple things like grace notes or portomento or little flicks of that pitch/mod wheel can bring it to life. Play with release times on your synth sound too. I like tight short gates. Makes each individual word clear. Reverbs can blur results, experiment. Also play with pre eq of the vocal going in. Sometimes you'll need eq extremes to push that baby into a useful tool. Don't worry, you won't break it.. experinemt ! And lastly, if you are using it for a main vocal. Spend a day or so playing with it, and learning how to speak with it, before getting fustrated at quick/poor results. One last thing... Some of these vocoders easily work as an insert on your track. Others need to be added as a STEREO AUX send, with the vocal side chained and panned to the left [modulator input] and the external synth [carrier source] panned to the right to get midi to respond. Most have synths built in with midi capabilities. Don't forget to assign your midi input to get pitch movement. Someone could probably make a quick template as an example. Hope all this helps ! Any questions, just let me know... -Man Parrish http://www.ManParrish.com P.S. Anyone going to the Winter Music Conference ? --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Chaz <chazperx@...> wrote: > > I am looking to purchase a Vocoder or voice fx plugin for Logic, and I was wondering if anyone would suggest a few that works well for them. I use MAC & PC, so please let me know the platform you are on. > > The types of effects I am trying to get are similar to the vocal effects you hear on Cher's song Do you Believe, and many of BT's songs.
> > Thanks in advance for your assistance! > > Chaz > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2007-02-28 by Eddie Sullivan
What did you use on the 'Male Stripper' song? (which to this day I still find laugh out loud funny) I just got Vokator from Native Instruments. It's very complex- but produces some really very nice effects. I miss my Roland SVC-350 though (which was stolen!) I think the vocals on the Cher song were done with some Digitech thing... Feel free to call me about this - I'm in NY as well : ) On Feb 28, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Man Parrish wrote: > Any questions, just let me know... > > -Man Parrish > http://www.ManParrish.com > > P.S. Anyone going to the Winter Music Conference ? > > --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Chaz <chazperx@...> wrote: > > > > I am looking to purchase a Vocoder or voice fx plugin for Logic, > and I was wondering if > anyone would suggest a few that works well for them. I use MAC & > PC, so please let me > know the platform you are on. > > > > The types of effects I am trying to get are similar to the vocal > effects you hear on > Cher's song Do you Believe, and many of BT's songs. > > > > Thanks in advance for your assistance! > > > > Chaz Eddie Sullivan IMS Pro A/V The Stony Brook Technology Center 21 Technology Drive E . Setauket NY 11733 1800 344 6434 X 108 esullivan@... AIM: esimsproav M-F 9-6 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-02-28 by Chris Coccia
Man Parrish wrote: > I personally LOVE the Prosonic Orange Vocoder [ http://products.prosoniq.com/cgi-bin/ > register?service=showdetail&refno=30] BUT I don't think it's intel compatable. It's > awsome at crisp clean lead and crystal clear vocoder vocals. It is AU and VST > Nope not AU native.. Requires purchasing FXPansions VST-AU adapter (how I still use it).. It hasnt been updated in quite sometime though... Theres even a hidden page around Prosoniq's site with the press release for the Orange Vocoder 3 that was supposed to come out like 2 years ago (I think) but ended up being vaporware.. I wouldnt count on it becoming Intel compatible anytime soon.. Im gonna be very sad the day I can no longer use mine it flat out just blows away every vocoder Ive tried out (software anyways, I couldnt figure out how to work the one in my Access Virus hahaha) -- Chris http://www.monotrematamusic.com http://www.myspace.com/monotremata http://www.descentrecords.com
2007-02-28 by pinineco2001
--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Sullivan <esullivan@...> wrote: > > What did you use on the 'Male Stripper' song? (which to this day I > still find laugh out loud funny) > > I just got Vokator from Native Instruments. It's very complex- but > produces some really very nice effects. I miss my Roland SVC-350 > though (which was stolen!) > > I think the vocals on the Cher song were done with some Digitech > thing... > > Feel free to call me about this - I'm in NY as well : ) > > > On Feb 28, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Man Parrish wrote: > > > Any questions, just let me know... > > > > -Man Parrish > > http://www.ManParrish.com > > > > P.S. Anyone going to the Winter Music Conference ? > > > > --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Chaz <chazperx@> wrote: > > > > > > I am looking to purchase a Vocoder or voice fx plugin for Logic, > > and I was wondering if > > anyone would suggest a few that works well for them. I use MAC & > > PC, so please let me > > know the platform you are on. > > > > > > The types of effects I am trying to get are similar to the vocal > > effects you hear on > > Cher's song Do you Believe, and many of BT's songs. > > > > > > Thanks in advance for your assistance! > > > > > > Chaz > > > > Eddie Sullivan > IMS Pro A/V > The Stony Brook Technology Center > 21 Technology Drive > E . Setauket NY 11733 > 1800 344 6434 X 108 > esullivan@... > AIM: esimsproav > M-F 9-6 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > there is a free vocoder here <www.epiphyte.ca/code/vocoder.html - 5k> GR
2007-02-28 by Kent Sandvik
On 2/28/07, Eddie Sullivan <esullivan@...> wrote: > I just got Vokator from Native Instruments. It's very complex- but > produces some really very nice effects. I miss my Roland SVC-350 > though (which was stolen!) Oh, forgot about that one -- also reminds me to install Komplete 4, still sitting on the floor in the studio. Anyway, only issue is that Vokator is not yet a universal binary: http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?intelmac_us Supposedly in February 2007, but today is the last day of February. --Kent
2007-02-28 by Eddie Sullivan
On Feb 28, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Kent Sandvik wrote: > Oh, forgot about that one -- also reminds me to install Komplete 4, > still sitting on the floor in the studio. It's worth the install just for FM8 IMO... Eddie IMS ProA/V [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-02-28 by Paul Najar
Great post! Thanks for the tips. I also have one to add. The sound of the synth used as a modulator has a big effect on intelligibility also. A buzzy saw usually does well but for me this can be improved a lot by mixing some white noise in with the saw. It really helps to voice vocal formants. Kind regards On 01/03/2007, at 4:23 AM, Man Parrish wrote: > Chaz, > > As "unofficial" king of the vocoders..lol I can make a few > suggestions. > > First you have to decide what you want to do "vocoder wise". Do you > want it as a > background effect for a few words, or as a lead vocal, or as a > processor for drums or > instruments. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com major site overhaul feb 2007 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-02-28 by Paul Najar
On 01/03/2007, at 4:42 AM, Eddie Sullivan wrote: > I think the vocals on the Cher song were done with some Digitech > thing... Yes. The device is a Digitech Talker. It's a foot pedal type of thing. Designed for guitarists. The producer's article some years ago in Sound On Sound mentioned it. There was no mention of pitch correction plugins. While many maintain that it really requires an Autotune like plugin to make that sound, I don't agree. I actually own the Talker and have done vocal processing just like the Cher track with only a vocoder. The trick to getting it seamless is in how you edit the midi data triggering the synth used as modulator and how you set up the synth patch. I also love and use the EVOC20. It has loads more useful features and is more convenient than the talker because Logic compensates for the latency automatically. The Talker has a fair bit of latency. Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com major site overhaul feb 2007 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-02-28 by Eddie Sullivan
On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:13 PM, Paul Najar wrote: > It has loads more useful > features and is more convenient than the talker because Logic > compensates for the latency automatically. The Talker has a fair bit > of latency. > Wow that's really interesting- usually it's the opposite- people complain about software and swear by the hardware when it comes to latency : ) I love the EVOC too- sounds good and is easy to use- I got Vokator and it's excellent sounding - but it's very complicated to use. > Kind regards > > ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: > Paul Najar > Jaminajar Music Production > www.jaminajar.com > major site overhaul feb 2007 Eddie IMS ProA/V [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-02-28 by Chris Coccia
Paul Najar wrote: > On 01/03/2007, at 4:42 AM, Eddie Sullivan wrote: > >> I think the vocals on the Cher song were done with some Digitech >> thing... > > Yes. The device is a Digitech Talker. It's a foot pedal type of > thing. Designed for guitarists. The producer's article some years ago > in Sound On Sound mentioned it. There was no mention of pitch > correction plugins. > As comes up everytime this is mentioned.. It was indeed AutoTune. And heres the SOS article saying how the producers didnt want anyone to know it was Autotune and told people it was the (at the time brand new) Digitech Talker that did it. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/articles/tracks661.htm -- Chris http://www.monotrematamusic.com http://www.myspace.com/monotremata http://www.descentrecords.com
2007-02-28 by Eddie Sullivan
On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:30 PM, Chris Coccia wrote: > As comes up everytime this is mentioned.. It was indeed AutoTune. > And heres the SOS article saying how the producers didnt want > anyone to > know it was Autotune and told people it was the (at the time brand > new) > Digitech Talker that did it. > > http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/articles/tracks661.htm > > -- > Chris Yeah- but does Cher know what they used ; ) Eddie IMS ProA/V [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-03-01 by Paul Najar
On 01/03/2007, at 9:18 AM, Eddie Sullivan wrote: > Wow that's really interesting- usually it's the opposite- people > complain about software and swear by the hardware when it comes to > latency : ) Well the Talker is actually a digital processor so I'm guessing there must be some buffering going on because it really has a great clear sound that's hard but not impossible to get with EVOC20. To be honest I've not plugged it in for a year or more now as EVOC gives me all I need but I'm loath to let go of it. I used to do the odd live gig with it. It's a quality stomp box. All metal, high grade switches, +4 balanced output in addition to -10. It cleverly works as a basic mic pre when in bypass so you can have just one mic for normal vocals and vocoding. I used to use it for vocal harmonies with 3 or 4 notes in the block played from my keyboard. It was also great for running synth through and using your mouth as an added envelope for expression. Not really obvious vocoding stuff. It's audio quality was mentioned in the SOS Cher's producer interview (can't remember his name) as one of the main reasons for choosing the Talker as they had used a different model for their demo. For live now my Powerbook running Logic with my Presonus FireBox mic pre running EVOC20 has replaced it. The latency for live playing with 128 sample buffer is about the same as the Talker was. The best memory I have of how much latency was in a recording I did with it some years ago. The Sample rate was 44.1, tempo:144. I had to minus offest the vocal and midi data going into the talker by around 95 of Logic's clock pulses. Not at all scientific I know as there is also multiple D/A & A/D conversions involved I was running on a TDM system... Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com major site overhaul feb 2007 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-03-01 by Paul Najar
On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:30 PM, Chris Coccia wrote: > As comes up everytime this is mentioned.. It was indeed AutoTune. > And heres the SOS article saying how the producers didnt want > anyone to > know it was Autotune and told people it was the (at the time brand > new) > Digitech Talker that did it. > > http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb99/articles/tracks661.htm Ah! I never saw this! So I was wrong about the Cher record but hear for yourself the track I was talking about in my previous post. There's an excerpt here. <http://www.ambamusic.com/mp3%20web% 20segments/perfect_place.mp3> Unlike Cher I used the straight vocal sound mixed with the same vocal performance vocoded signal throught the Talker all the way with the vocoded signal in unison mostly and doing the odd harmony part. Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com major site overhaul feb 2007 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-03-08 by Man Parrish
Hey, Yeah.. Male Stripper WAS campy and silly, but it went #1 POP in the UK ! Suprised me too.. lol ! I used the old analog EMS Vocoder, which I used on EVERYTHING. It was the actual Vocoder that Electric Light Orchestra used on "Mr. Blue Sky". It was for sale back in the 80's at Sam Ash Music in Manhattan. I asked the salesman what it was and he said "some weird thing that supposedly changes your voice or something"... And that ELO used it. "give me $100 and it's yours".. I knew what it was, I grabbed it immediately ! Cher was done witht he Digitech Voice Processor. It was a table top model. It ran about $350.00 in it;s day, later upgraded to a rack version. Vokator is a great tool too. As with any vocoder, you'll need to get used to it's flaws and learn how to tweak it for best output ! -Man Parrish --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Eddie Sullivan <esullivan@...> wrote:
> > What did you use on the 'Male Stripper' song? (which to this day I > still find laugh out loud funny) > > I just got Vokator from Native Instruments. It's very complex- but > produces some really very nice effects. I miss my Roland SVC-350 > though (which was stolen!) > > I think the vocals on the Cher song were done with some Digitech > thing... > > Feel free to call me about this - I'm in NY as well : ) > > > On Feb 28, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Man Parrish wrote: > > > Any questions, just let me know... > > > > -Man Parrish > > http://www.ManParrish.com > > > > P.S. Anyone going to the Winter Music Conference ? > > > > --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Chaz <chazperx@> wrote: > > > > > > I am looking to purchase a Vocoder or voice fx plugin for Logic, > > and I was wondering if > > anyone would suggest a few that works well for them. I use MAC & > > PC, so please let me > > know the platform you are on. > > > > > > The types of effects I am trying to get are similar to the vocal > > effects you hear on > > Cher's song Do you Believe, and many of BT's songs. > > > > > > Thanks in advance for your assistance! > > > > > > Chaz > > > > Eddie Sullivan > IMS Pro A/V > The Stony Brook Technology Center > 21 Technology Drive > E . Setauket NY 11733 > 1800 344 6434 X 108 > esullivan@... > AIM: esimsproav > M-F 9-6 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2007-03-08 by Chris Coccia
Man Parrish wrote: > I used the old analog EMS Vocoder, which I used on EVERYTHING. It was the actual Vocoder > that Electric Light Orchestra used on "Mr. Blue Sky". It was for sale back in the 80's at Sam > Ash Music in Manhattan. I asked the salesman what it was and he said "some weird thing > that supposedly changes your voice or something"... And that ELO used it. "give me $100 > and it's yours".. I knew what it was, I grabbed it immediately ! > Wow you got one for $100?? Now THATS a good score if I ever saw one hehe. > Cher was done witht he Digitech Voice Processor. It was a table top model. It ran about > $350.00 in it;s day, later upgraded to a rack version. > As I replied on the Logic Users Group as well once again this is not true. It was in fact AutoTune that was used on Cher's voice. The producers did not want anyone knowing what they used so they decided to blame it on the Digitech Vocalist that had just come out. The article is up at Sound on Sound.com for all to go verify so we never have to hear about old horseface Cher again hehehe. :) -- Chris http://www.monotrematamusic.com http://www.myspace.com/monotremata http://www.descentrecords.com
2007-03-08 by Eddie Sullivan
I got my Roland SVC-350 from a producer who worked on some BeeGee's records with it... I loved that Vocoder- it was stolen in the mid-90's : ( I've thought about picking another one up on eBay or something, but software works really, very well. I've never been able to get this exact sound out of the SVC-350/Juno-106 combination that I used to get, but I still like the software... 'Male Stripper' still one of my #1 favorite uses of a vocoder right up there with the Laurie Anderson 'Big Science' record... (when she kicks in with 'Oh boy, right again' it still gives me chills) ; ) On Mar 8, 2007, at 12:51 PM, Chris Coccia wrote: > Man Parrish wrote: > > > I used the old analog EMS Vocoder, which I used on EVERYTHING. It > was the actual Vocoder > > that Electric Light Orchestra used on "Mr. Blue Sky". It was for > sale back in the 80's at Sam > > Ash Music in Manhattan. I asked the salesman what it was and he > said "some weird thing > > that supposedly changes your voice or something"... And that ELO > used it. "give me $100 > > and it's yours".. I knew what it was, I grabbed it immediately ! Eddie IMS ProA/V [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-03-09 by Paul Najar
On 09/03/2007, at 4:51 AM, Chris Coccia wrote: > As I replied on the Logic Users Group as well once again this is > not true. > It was in fact AutoTune that was used on Cher's voice. Has anyone ever tried to do the Cher effect with -just- an autotune type plugin? If you had you'll notice that it will give you the timbre but not the smooth pitch control. Any voice performance will have autotune jumping all over the place with way unacceptable pitch artifacts. I've seen the SOS update to the interview (thanks for pointing that out) and I reckon this is still not the full story. They lied once... Based on my own experiments it's either not autotune at all or it's autotune in conjunction with a vocoder. > The producers did > not want anyone knowing what they used so they decided to blame it on > the Digitech Vocalist that had just come out. The article is up at > Sound on Sound.com for all to go verify so we never > have to hear about old horseface Cher again hehehe. :) Just because it's up at SOS doesn't make it 100% true. In fact the - original- interview has errors, which were then "apparently" corrected. And don't think I'm bashing SOS because I'm a subscriber and think it's one of the better of it's kind out there... Also just to keep the record straight it was a Digitech Talker mentioned in the article not the Vocalist. Kind regards ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Paul Najar Jaminajar Music Production www.jaminajar.com major site overhaul feb 2007 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2007-03-09 by GAmoore@aol.com
there are a number of controls for Autotune including speed of change and intensity - and there is manual mode with the graphic editor too. I am pretty sure Cher was done autotune, because there have been a raft of immitators using this affect. E.g. Dirty Vegas, and they all seem to have nailed the affect pretty easily. You can always run the vocal through several passes, with different settings, then take the best bits and edit them together too. > Has anyone ever tried to do the Cher effect with -just- an autotune > type plugin? If you had you'll notice that it will give you the > timbre but not the smooth pitch control. Any voice performance will > have autotune jumping all over the place with way unacceptable pitch > artifacts. I've seen the SOS update to the interview (thanks for > pointing that out) and I reckon this is still not the full story. > They lied once... > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]