QTR-Quadtone RIP

Version 2.3.1 of QuadToneRIP is now released for both Mac and PC.

A brand new website especially for QuadToneRIP makes its debut!

See http://www.quadtonerip.com
It's operational and there's more to come.

The 2.3.1 version is available on both the old download sites (for a while)
and the new site.

The major additions are:  new printers, R2400, 4800, (7800 & 9800 preliminary).

Many new profiles for new B&W inksets:

Neutral K7 for 2200, 4000, 7600, 9600, (NK6 for 7500 preliminary, see notes in folder).
QuadBlack for R200, 2200

Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:

It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are slighty too saturated
fixes are in progress.
Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  looks for column
headings of:
GRAY
L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL

Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of any that don't.

QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.

Roy

One more thing:  I separated the profiles for different inksets so they 
are not all together.

The main organizational change is to add the ink type to the printer 
names for the
non-epson inks.  So 2200 with NK7 inks will be Quad2200-NK7.  UT7 inks 
are
under Quad2200-UT7 etc.

If you use the install scripts that I have you can do your own inksets 
easily by renaming the Install script.
So Install4000-CSNK would give you a Quad4000-CSNK printer.

Roy

On Wednesday, September 28, 2005, at 09:18  AM, Roy Harrington wrote:

>
>
> Version 2.3.1 of QuadToneRIP is now released for both Mac and PC.
>
> A brand new website especially for QuadToneRIP makes its debut!
>
> See http://www.quadtonerip.com
> It's operational and there's more to come.
>
> The 2.3.1 version is available on both the old download sites (for a 
> while)
> and the new site.
>
> The major additions are:  new printers, R2400, 4800, (7800 & 9800 
> preliminary).
>
> Many new profiles for new B&W inksets:
>
> Neutral K7 for 2200, 4000, 7600, 9600, (NK6 for 7500 preliminary, see 
> notes in folder).
> QuadBlack for R200, 2200
>
> Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:
>
> It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are slighty 
> too saturated
> fixes are in progress.
> Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  looks 
> for column
> headings of:
> GRAY
> L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
> D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL
>
> Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of any that 
> don't.
>
> QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.
>
> Roy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
-
Roy Harrington
roy@...
Black & White Photo Gallery
http://www.harrington.com

Great new site : very appealing.
Thanks for the new release Roy. Meanwhile some questions :

1. Does one need to delete the past version and if so the "cleanQTR" 
soft is a must or not ?
2. When one has curves and ICC profiles how do you save and reload them 
in the new version (for ICC no problem, but curves) ?
3. Can you further explain the new Create-ICC : it supports general 
data file, but the help does not show how should the file look like (I 
stayed at the PM format one). I understand you are to fix the softproof 
AtoB but BtoA is correct or not ? What about media white and BPC ? 
Still perceptual conversion ?

Thanks for the great work.

Olivier

I'm confused. I cannot find any command, tab, etc. in QTR 2.3.10 which
says "Create Icc". Are you referring to "Curve Creation"?

Chris Hargens


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Olivier" <odesmais@y...> wrote:

> Great new site : very appealing.
> Thanks for the new release Roy. Meanwhile some questions :
> 
> 1. Does one need to delete the past version and if so the "cleanQTR" 
> soft is a must or not ?
> 2. When one has curves and ICC profiles how do you save and reload them 
> in the new version (for ICC no problem, but curves) ?
> 3. Can you further explain the new Create-ICC : it supports general 
> data file, but the help does not show how should the file look like (I 
> stayed at the PM format one). I understand you are to fix the softproof 
> AtoB but BtoA is correct or not ? What about media white and BPC ? 
> Still perceptual conversion ?
> 
> Thanks for the great work.
> 
> Olivier

I am under the impression that the 2.3.1  Create-ICC also handles black 
point compensation differently than the earlier version.  Does anyone 
have information on that?  Thanks
Walt    

> Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:
> 
> It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are 
slighty too saturated
> fixes are in progress.
> Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  looks 
for column
> headings of:
> GRAY
> L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
> D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL
> 
> Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of any 
that don't.

> 
> QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.
> 
> Roy

I just loaded version 2.3.1 and now the profiles that I have done are 
out of wack. The color has shifted and it seems to be putting down a 
lot more ink. I am printing with G6 inks on an Epson 2200 at 2880 
dpi. 

Could the shift be due to not having a linearazation curve loaded? I 
was getting good results without it before. 

I have checked my setings and I am printing exactly the same file at 
precisely the same setings and getting dramatically different results 
and all I have done is load QTR 2.3.1.

Clay

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Version 2.3.1 of QuadToneRIP is now released for both Mac and PC.
> 
> A brand new website especially for QuadToneRIP makes its debut!
> 
> See http://www.quadtonerip.com
> It's operational and there's more to come.
> 
> The 2.3.1 version is available on both the old download sites (for 
a while)
> and the new site.
> 
> The major additions are:  new printers, R2400, 4800, (7800 & 9800 
preliminary).
> 
> Many new profiles for new B&W inksets:
> 
> Neutral K7 for 2200, 4000, 7600, 9600, (NK6 for 7500 preliminary, 
see notes in folder).
> QuadBlack for R200, 2200
> 
> Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:
> 
> It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are 
slighty too saturated
> fixes are in progress.
> Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  looks 
for column
> headings of:
> GRAY
> L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
> D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL
> 
> Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of any 
that don't.

> 
> QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.
> 
> Roy

I have the same impression. I didn\ufffdt use QTR for some weeks an now 
loaded 2.3.1. After printing some pictures - which seem to be much 
darker than before, i printed the the 21step random step wedges 3 times.
1. UCpk cool/warm 50/50,
2. no kurve and
3. for comparison directly from Photoshop without profile.
The second looks very dark from 30%, only minor tonal differences above 
30%, all steps above are dark grey to black. The first looks a bit 
better but still all tones are shifted aproximately 20-30% to dark. Only 
the reference print from Photoshop shows nearly normal  tones. As i dont 
have my  EyeOne at home, i cannot measure actually but i will do it 
tomorrow.

Rainer

clayhurst wrote:

> I just loaded version 2.3.1 and now the profiles that I have done are
> out of wack. The color has shifted and it seems to be putting down a
> lot more ink. I am printing with G6 inks on an Epson 2200 at 2880
> dpi.
>
> Could the shift be due to not having a linearazation curve loaded? I
> was getting good results without it before.
>
> I have checked my setings and I am printing exactly the same file at
> precisely the same setings and getting dramatically different results
> and all I have done is load QTR 2.3.1.
>
> Clay
>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Version 2.3.1 of QuadToneRIP is now released for both Mac and PC.
> >
> > A brand new website especially for QuadToneRIP makes its debut!
> >
> > See http://www.quadtonerip.com
> > It's operational and there's more to come.
> >
> > The 2.3.1 version is available on both the old download sites (for
> a while)
> > and the new site.
> >
> > The major additions are:  new printers, R2400, 4800, (7800 & 9800
> preliminary).
> >
> > Many new profiles for new B&W inksets:
> >
> > Neutral K7 for 2200, 4000, 7600, 9600, (NK6 for 7500 preliminary,
> see notes in folder).
> > QuadBlack for R200, 2200
> >
> > Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:
> >
> > It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are
> slighty too saturated
> > fixes are in progress.
> > Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  looks
> for column
> > headings of:
> > GRAY
> > L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
> > D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL
> >
> > Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of any
> that don't.
> >
> > QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.
> >
> > Roy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>     *  Visit your group "QuadtoneRIP
>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/QuadtoneRIP>" on the web.
>        
>     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>        QuadtoneRIP-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:QuadtoneRIP-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>        
>     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Tom,

I am like Chris... a bit lost ! You first make a linearized curve, 
then to create the profile you just drag the file on to the 
QTR_create_ICC. exe ? Is that right ?
This means that you record you linearized file into QTR > EyeOne 
folder, then drag it onto the Exe. Correct ? And magic happens you 
get a profile ?

Thanks for your help.
Michel



--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Husband" <thusband@s...> 
wrote:
> Chris,
> 
> QTR-Create-ICC.exe is in the Eye-One folder under the QuadToneRIP 
folder.
> 
> Tom
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Chris Hargens 
>   To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:30 PM
>   Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: New Versions of QuadToneRIP both Mac 
and PC and New Website
> 
> 
>   I'm confused. I cannot find any command, tab, etc. in QTR 2.3.10 
which

>   says "Create Icc". Are you referring to "Curve Creation"?
> 
>   Chris Hargens

I hate to tell you this but I've yet to make a
profile.  I'm waiting for some ink to arrive.  I just
know where the file is located.  I believe you print a
21 step wedge, measure each patch, add the results to
spreadsheet with certain column heading titles and
then drag it to the .exe file.  I could be wrong here.
 I'm not home now but a couple of days ago I asked if
there was a tutorial about this and got an answer
from, I think, Steve Kale.  Look back a few days to
find it.  It had more info.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
---------------------------------
Tom,

I am like Chris... a bit lost ! You first make a
linearized curve, 
then to create the profile you just drag the file on
to the 
QTR_create_ICC. exe ? Is that right ?
This means that you record you linearized file into
QTR > EyeOne 
folder, then drag it onto the Exe. Correct ? And magic
happens you 
get a profile ?

Thanks for your help.
Michel

Roy,

great work, many thanks.

I don't quite understand your install scripts comment below; I do 
use my own inksets and am curious what thats all about?

Jamie

--- Original Message ---

...snip...

If you use the install scripts that I have you can do your own 
inksets
easily by renaming the Install script.
So Install4000-CSNK would give you a Quad4000-CSNK printer.

Roy

Roy Harrington

Hi Michel,

While I'm working on a Mac I think the process is approximately the
same on a PC and I believe it's essentially as follows, at least it's
worked for me(if anyone sees anything incorrect or knows that the info
for a PC is different, please post the correct info):

1. create your linearization curve(s)
2. print another 21 or 51 step ramp WITHOUT color management, using
your new linearization curve(s)
3. scan the new densities
4. if using the i1, you would use measure tool to produce your data
file (see the pdf Eye-One ReadMe)

If you're using a densitometer you can use either the CurveEvalV2.xls
or Measure.txt files located in the group files.

With the spreadsheet you need to replace the example data with your
scanned data. then click on the second worksheet tab. This will bring
up the data file template. Then save the file as a text (tab
delimited) file by selecting save as and choosing the appropriate file
type.
(Side note: for some reason I've had to go through the exported file
and enter manual carriage returns at the beginning of each line in
order to get the file to work properly, don't know if this has
happened to anyone else, but thought I'd mention it anyway.)

Or
 
With the Measure.txt file, you can manually edit the L values
calculated by the spreadsheet, then make sure to do a save as.

5. Locate the QTR-Create-ICC script and drop your finished data file
onto it.

6. Find the ICC file and install it in the proper system folder.

7. Open up an image file and print using the color management system
in your image editor, selecting the new profile (prefixed with QTR)
and make sure to print through QTR with the corresponding curve(s) and
blend settings if applicable.

Hope this helps,

Eric
www.ericashworth.net




I am like Chris... a bit lost ! You first make a linearized curve, 

> then to create the profile you just drag the file on to the 
> QTR_create_ICC. exe ? Is that right ?
> This means that you record you linearized file into QTR > EyeOne 
> folder, then drag it onto the Exe. Correct ? And magic happens you 
> get a profile ?

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Olivier" <odesmais@y...> wrote:
> Great new site : very appealing.

Thanks, it was about time to spruce it up.

> Thanks for the new release Roy. Meanwhile some questions :
> 
> 1. Does one need to delete the past version and if so the "cleanQTR" 
> soft is a must or not ?

It's not a must to clean out but it's probably a good idea.  There is a Uninstall
program but it's important to use the Uninstall that goes with the install.
If you haven't saved your own files in the QTR structure you could just
trash the whole thing.

> 2. When one has curves and ICC profiles how do you save and reload them 
> in the new version (for ICC no problem, but curves) ?

I think if you are making curves, doing custom work, it would be prudent to
save copies in your own area.  You need to understand .quad .qidf and .icc
files are where they go:
.quad's in QTR\Quadtone\Quad2200
.qidf's are usually in QTR\Profiles\Quad2200 but they could be referenced
from anywhere.

> 3. Can you further explain the new Create-ICC : it supports general 
> data file, but the help does not show how should the file look like (I 
> stayed at the PM format one). 

I need to write more about it, but its actually very flexible.  The code looks for
data that makes sense.  So if you have a text data file that has lab or density
values in it, its likely it will work.

> I understand you are to fix the softproof 
> AtoB but BtoA is correct or not ? What about media white and BPC ? 

The soft proof direction AtoB has incorrect handling of the media white.  It makes
the white have a little too much color -- its quite usable but not ideal.
The wtpt and bkpt tags are correct.

> Still perceptual conversion ?

Yes, the print direction BtoA is the same as the previous version and I believe correct.

Roy

> 
> Thanks for the great work.
> 
> Olivier

Clay,

I don't think the new version should be any different for the 2200.
Are you using your own profiles or the canned profiles?  Are you using
any ICC printing profiles?

One thing that catches my eye is that you say "2880 dpi" -- most of the builtin
profiles are for 1440dpi not 2880dpi.  2880dpi puts out more ink than 1440dpi
on the 2200.  Check these parameters.

Roy

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "clayhurst" <QTR@b...> wrote:

> I just loaded version 2.3.1 and now the profiles that I have done are 
> out of wack. The color has shifted and it seems to be putting down a 
> lot more ink. I am printing with G6 inks on an Epson 2200 at 2880 
> dpi. 
> 
> Could the shift be due to not having a linearazation curve loaded? I 
> was getting good results without it before. 
> 
> I have checked my setings and I am printing exactly the same file at 
> precisely the same setings and getting dramatically different results 
> and all I have done is load QTR 2.3.1.
> 
> Clay
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Version 2.3.1 of QuadToneRIP is now released for both Mac and PC.
> > 
> > A brand new website especially for QuadToneRIP makes its debut!
> > 
> > See http://www.quadtonerip.com
> > It's operational and there's more to come.
> > 
> > The 2.3.1 version is available on both the old download sites (for 
> a while)
> > and the new site.
> > 
> > The major additions are:  new printers, R2400, 4800, (7800 & 9800 
> preliminary).
> > 
> > Many new profiles for new B&W inksets:
> > 
> > Neutral K7 for 2200, 4000, 7600, 9600, (NK6 for 7500 preliminary, 
> see notes in folder).
> > QuadBlack for R200, 2200
> > 
> > Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:
> > 
> > It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are 
> slighty too saturated
> > fixes are in progress.
> > Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  looks 
> for column
> > headings of:
> > GRAY
> > L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
> > D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL
> > 
> > Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of any 
> that don't.
> > 
> > QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.
> > 
> > Roy

The new version uses different tags in the icc file so that color can be
used in the softproof.  But the effect of BPC is supposed to be the same as before.

Roy

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets" <odets@c...> wrote:

> I am under the impression that the 2.3.1  Create-ICC also handles black 
> point compensation differently than the earlier version.  Does anyone 
> have information on that?  Thanks
> Walt    
> 
> > Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:
> > 
> > It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are 
> slighty too saturated
> > fixes are in progress.
> > Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  looks 
> for column
> > headings of:
> > GRAY
> > L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
> > D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL
> > 
> > Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of any 
> that don't.
> > 
> > QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.
> > 
> > Roy

Roy : apparently a lot of us are so happy of the new release... That's 
just a fantastic achievement.

I understand from a latter post of yours BPC is still under work 
together with highlights for softproofing : we'll wait for the fix, any 
idea of the time needed for it ? I'm so eager to get it...

I'd be also glad to see a file format for the ICC so that there's no 
mess possible :PM file is ok but requires some cut/paste handling.


Olivier

Roy-
Thanks for the response and, again, congratulations on this wonderful 
piece of work.

The documentation now calls for BPC checked in both the workflow and 
softproof and I am now doing that for the first time.  I see smoother 
transistions and better detail in the shadows than without the BPC 
checked--slight but clear.  I used the same MT files, so that's not 
the issue.

On the highlights and color, I find that about perfect on my 
monitor.  Using ABW "neutral" settings the effect of the paper is 
clear and very useful.

In Soft Proof, I have the "Simulate Paper White" and "Ink Black" both 
turned off--they ruin the good preview and seem way out of range to 
me.

Thanks,
Walt


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> 
> The new version uses different tags in the icc file so that color 
can be
> used in the softproof.  But the effect of BPC is supposed to be the 
same as before.
> 
> Roy
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets" <odets@c...> wrote:
> > I am under the impression that the 2.3.1  Create-ICC also handles 
black 
> > point compensation differently than the earlier version.  Does 
anyone 
> > have information on that?  Thanks
> > Walt    
> > 
> > > Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:
> > > 
> > > It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are 
> > slighty too saturated
> > > fixes are in progress.
> > > Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  
looks 
> > for column
> > > headings of:
> > > GRAY
> > > L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
> > > D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL
> > > 
> > > Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of 
any 

> > that don't.
> > > 
> > > QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.
> > > 
> > > Roy

As I said in my original post, everything is the same and I have 
doubled checked it.

I am using my own profiles because I am printing at 2880 dpi. The 
included profiles created for 1440 do not work for me.

No, I am not using icc profiles.

I have sent some files offline that show what is happening to the 
prints.

Clay

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> Clay,
> 
> I don't think the new version should be any different for the 2200.
> Are you using your own profiles or the canned profiles?  Are you 
using
> any ICC printing profiles?
> 
> One thing that catches my eye is that you say "2880 dpi" -- most of 
the builtin
> profiles are for 1440dpi not 2880dpi.  2880dpi puts out more ink 
than 1440dpi
> on the 2200.  Check these parameters.
> 
> Roy
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "clayhurst" <QTR@b...> wrote:
> > I just loaded version 2.3.1 and now the profiles that I have done 
are 
> > out of wack. The color has shifted and it seems to be putting 
down a 
> > lot more ink. I am printing with G6 inks on an Epson 2200 at 2880 
> > dpi. 
> > 
> > Could the shift be due to not having a linearazation curve 
loaded? I 
> > was getting good results without it before. 
> > 
> > I have checked my setings and I am printing exactly the same file 
at 
> > precisely the same setings and getting dramatically different 
results 
> > and all I have done is load QTR 2.3.1.
> > 
> > Clay
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Version 2.3.1 of QuadToneRIP is now released for both Mac and 
PC.
> > > 
> > > A brand new website especially for QuadToneRIP makes its debut!
> > > 
> > > See http://www.quadtonerip.com
> > > It's operational and there's more to come.
> > > 
> > > The 2.3.1 version is available on both the old download sites 
(for 
> > a while)
> > > and the new site.
> > > 
> > > The major additions are:  new printers, R2400, 4800, (7800 & 
9800 
> > preliminary).
> > > 
> > > Many new profiles for new B&W inksets:
> > > 
> > > Neutral K7 for 2200, 4000, 7600, 9600, (NK6 for 7500 
preliminary, 
> > see notes in folder).
> > > QuadBlack for R200, 2200
> > > 
> > > Updates for QTR-Create-ICC tool:
> > > 
> > > It now supports color softproofing -- works but highlights are 
> > slighty too saturated
> > > fixes are in progress.
> > > Supports a more general data input file.  Anything columnar,  
looks 
> > for column
> > > headings of:
> > > GRAY
> > > L, LAB, LAB_L, A, LAB_A, B, LAB_B
> > > D, DENSITY, V, VISUAL
> > > 
> > > Try it on your data file are see if it works.  Let me know of 
any 

> > that don't.
> > > 
> > > QTR-Linearize-Data accepts same data files.
> > > 
> > > Roy

John-  Thanks.  I'm familiar with that technique and use it with a 
color workflow.  In the case of this flow, the Soft Proof with these 
two unchecked is very, very accurate.  With them checked is is much 
less predictive of the print.  I am to the point where, if it were 
not for defect and aesthetic issues, the screen is so predictive of 
the print that I hardly need to do a proof print.  Which is quite 
remarkable.

Walt

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody" <moodymz3@y...> 
wrote:
> When you turn on "Simulate Paper White" and "Ink Black", turn your 
head away
> from the monitor and wait a few seconds before looking back.  Our 
brain
> compares too much to the non-soft-proofed image and say's wow, that 
looks
> like crap.  If you avert your eyes for a little while, that does 
not happen
> nearly as much and you can make better assessment of the soft-
proof.  It's a
> learned skill, give it time.
> 
> Having a good balance of ambient light in the room, non-colored 
walls, etc.
> helps as well.  I have a solux desk lamp positioned just to the 
left and
> behind my monitor where it can't spill light on the monitor, highly
> recommended.  Ideally, the monitor white and brightness matches the 
print
> under the lamp.  My ambient room lights are bad, that is an area I 
hope to

> improve some day.
> 
> Best regards,
> John Moody
>