SergeModular

> Okay, after piles and piles of listening to modular synths, weeks of
> researching, I've got a
> plan to go ahead with Serge and Modcan systems. Where I'm at now is building a
> 'stand
> alone' system in each flavor and let that stew for a while (I dream patching
> modulars now
> -- for real!). Here's my 'stand alone serge' system that I've dreamed up. Tell
> me if I'm
> missing something, am over/under doing something, or what ever general wisdom
> you'd
> like to share (all feedback so far has been positively great).
>
> Here's the Serge:
>
> Panel 1: Wigglers
> Preamp Detector (1)
> Random Source (2)
> New Timbral Oscillator (3)
> New Timbral Oscillator (3)
> Precision VCO (2)
> Precision VCO (2)
> Universal Audio Processor (2)
> Control Module (1)
> ==
> 16
>
> Panel 2: CV Centric
> Dual Universal Slope Generator (3)
> Smooth / Stepped Generator (2)
> Dual Transient Generator (2)
> Extended ADSR (2)
> ASR (1)
> Dual Detector (1)
> Active Processor (1)
> Quantizer (2)
> Scaling Processor (2)
> ==
> 16
>
> Panel 3: Effects
> Random Source (2)
> Wave Multiplier (2)
> Variable Q VCF (2)
> Variable Slope VCF (2)
> Resonant Equalizer (2)
> Dual Phaser (2)
> Frequency Shifter (2)
> Wave Multiplier (2)
> ==
> 16
>
> Panel 4: Misc
> Dual Processor (2)
> Quadrature Oscillator (2)
> Triple Waveshaper (2)
> Audio Mixer (2)
> Universal Audio Processor (2)
> Mixer (1)
> Wilson Analog Delay (3)
> Dual Channel Stereo Mixer (2)
> ==
> 16
>
> This arrangement is based on a 'buy at least 2 panels to start'. I liked the
> idea of clustering
> similar functionality into a panel vs. the 'soup kitchen' bit of everything in
> a single panel.
> Don't know if that's wise, but it's how I was able to organize it in my mind.
> It's tough to
> reconcile a 'for sale' serge panel (for the few I've seen recently) that maps
> well against this
> arrangement I've come up with.
>
> ---
>
> I also have a Modcan / Cynthia modular theory, although I haven't broken it
> into a 'panel'
> approach. For those who are interested, here's the list so far:
>
> Oscillators
> ===========
> Oscillator 01a x2 $330
> Dual Oscillator 46a x2 $465
> Envelope 04a x2 $330
> MiniWave 22a x1 $360
>
> Filters
> =======
> Low Pass 02a $250
> Diode Filter 23a x2 $265
> CEM Lowpass 29a $265
> 4075 Lowpass 36a $285
> 904A LPF 44a $300
> 4 Pole LPF 14a $265
> 4 Pole HPF 15a $265
> Multimode 10a $265
> Twin Wasp CYNTHIA x2 $330 US
> Quad Low Pass CYNTHIA x2 $260 US
>
> CV Control
> ==========
> Dual ADSR CYNTHIA $425 US Build to order
> Gated Comparat. CYNTHIA $250 US
> Sample & Hold 07a $310
> Quad LFO 03a $360
> Dual LFO 05a $265
> VC Reset LFO 26a $300
> Pulse Divider 20a $265
> Mix/Lag 18a $265
> Dual X-fade 16a $265
> E-Follower 45a $265
> VC Dual ADSR 47a $440
> VC Flanger 38a $400
> 4VCA 31a (with pulpot switches + $50) $330
> Burst Generator CYNDUSTRIES $225 US
>
> Audio & CV
> ==========
> Processor 08a x2 $260
> 6x2 Audio Mixer 43a
> Anything Module CYNTHIA x2 $260 US
>
> Audio Effects
> =============
> Dual Saw Anim CYNDUSTRIES $375 US
> Phase/Timbre 06a $360
> Morph/PK&Thrgh 12a (maybe) $265
> Freq Shifter 39a $775
> Spring Reverb 35a $375
> Super Delay 30a x2 $495
>
> Utility
> =======
> Interface 25a (for external system linking) $125
> Power Supply 21 Modules x2 $275
> + Case of some sort
>
>
> So I'm not sure what my go-forward order will be. Ideally I'd like to get a
> panel of Serge,
> and some Modcan, and sort of pace all this so it's about 10k a year, and
> complete within 3
> years. The Modcan modules came (without case) to under $14k, and I haven't
> priced the
> Serge stuff yet. Ideally I'd get one or two panels from Rex to keep him
> employed, and get
> the rest used. If I do that, I'd probably wait for the 'right' fit of a used
> panel to be my first
> Serge panel (i.e. see how much it satisfies my 4 panel functionality), and
> fill the rest up
> with a custom one from Rex. I'll probably start picking up some used
> Modcan/Cynthia
> modules as they appear on AH just to save a few bucks, but pick up a small
> Modcan
> system from Bruce shortly.
>
> So this is my theory!
>
> I'm also selling a few things in my studio:
>
> - Yamaha AN1X
> - Korg Trinity
> - Kawai K500S
> - Korg Karma
> - MS2000R
> - Electribe EA-1, ER-1, ES-1
> - Sherman Filterbank 1
> - Line 6 Filter Pro, Echo Pro, Mod Pro
> - Electrix FilterFactory, Vocoder, MoFX
> - Korg Kaoss Pad, Alesis AirFX
>
> So yell if you (doubtful, knowin this crowd :) want any of it at good prices.
> Will trade
> panels for some of this stuff.
>
> I've put up a PDF of my new studio concept as a PDF montage:
>
> http://www.paulsop.com/deathray/studio/Studio_New.pdf (4.3 MB)
>
> My concept going forward is to simplify my setup to let me go deeper with
> systems that let
> me go deep, let me bridge modern digital modulars (kyma), computers, and
> analogue
> synthesis, non-traditional controllers (continuum fingerboard, wacom tablet,
> theremin,
> hopefully one day a marimba lumina), yet make it possible to pack up a portion
> of it to
> gig.
>
> I also put up a PDF of my current messy studio (as a patch sheet)
> http://www.paulsop.com/deathray/studio/Studio_August05.pdf
>
> I'll start buying in September, for I just won an auction for an Ionic
> Performer (weird EMS
> VCS3 american unauthorized copy) that I also have to get repaired.
>
> Thanks all for the piles and piles and piles of feedback and advice you've all
> given me. Yell
> if any of you want to trade me a panel for some of the stuff above to start me
> going :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Paul Sop
> www.paulsop.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

-------------- Original message --------------
Okay, after piles and piles of listening to modular synths, weeks of researching, I've got a
plan to go ahead with Serge and Modcan systems. Where I'm at now is building a 'stand
alone' system in each flavor and let that stew for a while (I dream patching modulars now
-- for real!). Here's my 'stand alone serge' system that I've dreamed up. Tell me if I'm
missing something, am over/under doing something, or what ever general wisdom you'd
like to share (all feedback so far has been positively great).

Here's the Serge:

Panel 1: Wigglers
Preamp Detector (1)
Random Source (2)
New Timbral Oscillator (3)
New Timbral Oscillator (3)
Precision VCO (2)
Precision VCO (2)
Universal Audio Processor (2)
Control Module (1)
==
16

Panel 2: CV Centric
Dual Universal Slope Generator (3)
Smooth / Stepped Generator (2)
Dual Transient Generator (2)
Extended ADSR (2)
ASR (1)
Dual Detector (1)
Active Processor (1)
Quantizer (2)
Scaling Processor (2)
==
16

Panel 3: Effects
Random Source (2)
Wave Multiplier (2)
Variable Q VCF (2)
Variable Slope VCF (2)
Resonant Equalizer (2)
Dual Phaser (2)
Frequency Shifter (2)
Wave Multiplier (2)
==
16

Panel 4: Misc
Dual Processor (2)
Quadrature Oscillator (2)
Triple Waveshaper (2)
Audio Mixer (2)
Universal Audio Processor (2)
Mixer (1)
Wilson Analog Delay (3)
Dual Channel Stereo Mixer (2)
==
16

This arrangement is based on a 'buy at least 2 panels to start'. I liked the idea of clustering
similar functionality into a panel vs. the 'soup kitchen' bit of everything in a single panel.
Don't know if that's wise, but it's how I was able to organize it in my mind. It's tough to
reconcile a 'for sale' serge panel (for the few I've seen recently) that maps well against this
arrangement I've come up with.

---

I also have a Modcan / Cynthia modular theory, although I haven't broken it into a 'panel'
approach. For those who are interested, here's the list so far:

Oscillators
===========
Oscillator 01a x2 $330
Dual Oscillator 46a x2 $465
Envelope 04a x2 $330
MiniWave 22a x1 $360

Filters
=======
Low Pass 02a $250
Diode Filter 23a x2 $265
CEM Lowpass 29a $265
4075 Lowpass 36a $285
904A LPF 44a $300
4 Pole LPF 14a $265
4 Pole HPF 15a $265
Multimode 10a $265
Twin Wasp CYNTHIA x2 $330 US
Quad Low Pass CYNTHIA x2 $260 US

CV Control
==========
Dual ADSR CYNTHIA $425 US Build to order
Gated Comparat. CYNTHIA $250 US
Sample & Hold 07a $310
Quad LFO 03a $360
Dual LFO 05a $265
VC Reset LFO 26a $300
Pulse Divider 20a $265
Mix/Lag 18a $265
Dual X-fade 16a $265
E-Follower 45a $265
VC Dual ADSR 47a $440
VC Flanger 38a $400
4VCA 31a (with pulpot switches + $50) $330
Burst Generator CYNDUSTRIES $225 US

Audio & CV
==========
Processor 08a x2 $260
6x2 Audio Mixer 43a
Anything Module CYNTHIA x2 $260 US

Audio Effects
=============
Dual Saw Anim CYNDUSTRIES $375 US
Phase/Timbre 06a $360
Morph/PK&Thrgh 12a (maybe) $265
Freq Shifter 39a $775
Spring Reverb 35a $375
Super Delay 30a x2 $495

Utility
=======
Interface 25a (for external system linking) $125
Power Supply 21 Modules x2 $275
+ Case of some sort


So I'm not sure what my go-forward order will be. Ideally I'd like to get a panel of Serge,
and some Modcan, and sort of pace all this so it's about 10k a year, and complete within 3
years. The Modcan modules came (without case) to under $14k, and I haven't priced the
Serge stuff yet. Ideally I'd get one or two panels from Rex to keep him employed, and get
the rest used. If I do that, I'd probably wait for the 'right' fit of a used panel to be my first
Serge panel (i.e. see how much it satisfies my 4 panel functionality), and fill the rest up
with a custom one from Rex. I'll probably start picking up some used Modcan/Cynthia
modules as they appear on AH just to save a few bucks, but pick up a small Modcan
system from Bruce shortly.

So this is my theory!

I'm also selling a few things in my studio:

- Yamaha AN1X
- Korg Trinity
- Kawai K500S
- Korg Karma
- MS2000R
- Electribe EA-1, ER-1, ES-1
- Sherman Filterbank 1
- Line 6 Filter Pro, Echo Pro, Mod Pro
- Electrix FilterFactory, Vocoder, MoFX
- Korg Kaoss Pad, Alesis AirFX

So yell if you (doubtful, knowin this crowd :) want any of it at good prices. Will trade
panels for some of this stuff.

I've put up a PDF of my new studio concept as a PDF montage:

http://www.paulsop.com/deathray/studio/Studio_New.pdf (4.3 MB)

My concept going forward is to simplify my setup to let me go deeper with systems that let
me go deep, let me bridge modern digital modulars (kyma), computers, and analogue
synthesis, non-traditional controllers (continuum fingerboard, wacom tablet, theremin,
hopefully one day a marimba lumina), yet make it possible to pack up a portion of it to
gig.

I also put up a PDF of my current messy studio (as a patch sheet)
http://www.paulsop.com/deathray/studio/Studio_August05.pdf

I'll start buying in September, for I just won an auction for an Ionic Performer (weird EMS
VCS3 american unauthorized copy) that I also have to get repaired.

Thanks all for the piles and piles and piles of feedback and advice you've all given me. Yell
if any of you want to trade me a panel for some of the stuff above to start me going :)

Cheers

Paul Sop
www.paulsop.com

--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, darkstr1746@c... wrote:
> I don't mean to bum your groove, but as someone who started out blindly knowing
nothing about modulars, and haveing learned the hard way about panel functionality, my
first and second reaction is that you should seriously go back to the drawing boards and
reconsider your panel layouts. There are several modules in each of your Serge layouts
that are completely misplaced while others would be served best by placing them
elsewhere. You have also duplicated some modules un-neccessarily. Just one example is
your placement of the CM (control module) CM, while it can be a stand alone, always goes
next to a FS because of the internal build layout of that module. So, the way you have
things laid out now, your going to wind up with two of them which is totaly redundant.
You have also almost completely ignored adequate mixing facilities which, considering the
number of audio sources in your layout, will be almost fatal to your system right from the
go.

>Hi John,
>
>Yes. I must refine and approach zen panel layout.
>
>I agree I need more mixers and and certainly more ADSR.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-------------- Original message --------------
ADSR's, not really. Like Peter says, you can go a long way with DTG's
and DSG's. I have no ADSR's in my system.

As for the mixers, I thought you were OK on that count. Since you're
probably moving the CM to next to the FS, that will free up 1 space.
You could stick a skinny mixer in there.

I would also think about a dual comparator.

Also, I take it you're triggering/sequencing this thing externally? I
note no sequencers or TKB's anywhere....

mimulon wrote:

>Hi John,
>
>Yes. I must refine and approach zen panel layout.
>
>I agree I need more mixers and and certainly more ADSR.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
m/n/m/l
surreal electronic music, sound, noise
http://www.mnmlnoise.com

>
> I still disagree on the mixer thingy. If you don't have at least one
> MIX2 in that layout of yours , your just shooting yourself in the
> foot. But that

> -----Original Message-----
> From: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SergeModular@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Les Mizzell
> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 12:13 PM
> To: SergeModular@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [SergeModular] Re: My modular plan so far (was Changing
> Studios)
>
> darkstr1746@... wrote:
> > It's a bummer that the Serge Modular configurator is down and probably
> > will remain so indefinately.
>
> I tried once before to get my hands on the source code for this so I
> could see if it could be added to the EGRES site, but no luck.
>
> I *KNOW* I'm already behind adding a "Modules for Sale form, but what
> the heck, I might as well get even MORE behind, huh?
>
> Can anybody hel me snag the source?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> --
> -----------
> Les Mizzell
>
>
>
> Keep on Patchin'!
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

> if even half the owners of systems would bother to chime in on

-------------- Original message --------------
--- In SergeModular@yahoogroups.com, darkstr1746@c... wrote:
> if even half the owners of systems would bother to chime in on
this thread.

Okay, OKAY! John shamed me into it...

I will offer some random bits in hopes some may prove beneficial!

I started with an Animal shop panel so I have to concur that if you
can only afford a single panel to start, you can accomplish a lot
with this alone. The nice thing about having a small selection of
modules is that it forces you to push each one to the limit.

I also agree it is very easy to overlook audio mixers (cross-faders
are extremely useful) and voltage processors (PRC, ACPR, SCPR, BUFF)
when poring over a catalog filled with enticing audio manglers and
the most flexible voltage sources around! But the former are really
important in developing the more complex timbres at which the Serge
excels, and the latter are critical for precise control of your
modulations and the ability to have them evolve over time. Many of
the owners of 4+ panels on this list have a full panel dedicated to
mixing because we overlooked it ourselves initially!

New vs. used: if you are going to buy your first panels from Rex, I
would buy shop panels to start so that if you decide to change your
system down the road they will be easier to incorporate and/or sell.
Chances are you will know much more about what you need more of or
can do without after 6-12 months with your system, and John Duval's
role of "unofficial community benefactor" should serve as evidence
that one person's vision of a perfect panel layout is often quite
different than other current or would-be Serge owners'. The benefit
of buying your first panels used is that you can get to know a lot
of modules and can then pass them along with less depreciation after
you have a much better idea of what your ideal module arrangement
is. "Rookie mistakes" are much more costly with new panels!

That being said, if I were to lose all my stuff in a fire and could
only afford two panels to rebuild, I would start with the following:

*Panel 1 - Audio*
NTO / PCO / RING / NCOM / VCM / AMX / VCF2 / VCFQ(X) / DCSM

*Panel 2 - CV*
RS / SSG / DSG / SPRC / ACPR / ADSR / DTG (w/sig in mod) / QUO

I think every Serge system should have at least one of each of the
modules above, and you can always expand later. Add a Soup Kitchen
and/or a Sequencer panel and you've got a lot of synthesis power!

But I also think you could put together a great starter system with
several of the panels currently available. How about this combo?

Blake's panel: $1800
1/4" to banana interface, PCO, Ring Modulator, Pulse Divider, Wave
Multiplier, Mixer, Resonant Equalizer, Variable Bandwidth Filter,
Schmitt Trigger, and Dual VCA.

John's Panel#4
NTO / PCO(2) / VCM / TWS / XFAD(3) / MIX2 New$3390.
Sell $1800.00

John's Panel #7
2RVG / CLK / PRC / DSG (2) / QUO(2) New$3340.
Sell $2000.

For less than the cost of two new STS panels, you would get a very
capable and flexible line-up:

* no shortage of oscillators (1 NTO + 3 precision VCOs)

* lots of sound shapers... 2 wave multipliers + triple waveshaper +
ring mod + variable bandwidth VCF + Resonant EQ (IMHO these last two
are the most distinctive Serge filters)

* plenty of mixing power (3 manual mixers, 3 cross-fader/vca's, dual
vca's - with careful patching you can also achieve panning)

* nice collection of voltage sources/modifiers, including two each
of the Quadrature Oscillators (see my rant on these in post #3350)
and Dual Slope Generators (care to chime in here, Mr. Coplin?)

Your next panel could come straight from Rex and include stuff like
the Frequency Shifter, Quad Voltage Mixer, Smooth/Stepped Gen, NCOM
(another great one) and perhaps another filter or two and whatever
else you recognize by then that you're missing!

Well, that's quite enough opinion from me, hopefully something from
this ramble will make sense or at least spur productive debate!

Best wishes,

Chris Sawyer