Analogue-sequencer

> How realistic would be to change the processor to a bigger 
> one will all the 
> otions included and some free space for even upcoming ones?  
> I  would pay 
> $$$ for it as the sequencer is the main thing of my studio.

That'll be the next phase.
Once I've got the production P3 out of the way, I'll be looking at the ARM
microcontroller development board I bought a few months ago, but haven't had
time to play with...
It has 256k flash, and the assembler is far more efficient than the mcs51,
so it can take a lot more code.
My original plan was to use the ARM CPU for P4, basing it on the P3 design,
but adding more tracks, more memory, rotary encoders, more outputs, compact
flash storage etc.
But it could take me a while to get to grips with a new CPU, and a totally
new UI design would be a lot to take on at the same time, so I decided to do
P3.5 first.
P3.5 would be externally identical to P3, but with a different main board
based on the ARM CPU.
For those P3 users who still want more power, there would be a relatively
inexpensive upgrade path.
I can't promise any timescales for the appearance of P3.5 though. I've got
some significant changes approaching in life, and I don't know how things
are going to pan out. Ideally, I'll get the first run of production P3s
done, they'll sell like hot cakes, and I'll be able to give up my day job to
work on sequencer design. We'll see...

Cheers,
Colin f

Hi;

Yes I know, but between you and us we have made tha almost ultimate 
sequencer.

My suggestion to made some of as happy  ,and due to the small amount of 
space left is having several ways as on secondary school eg several OS going 
from now , per example

  A; (mine) with the options I suggested( all related to note lenght)

B ; related to extensive AUX events and acumulators ,things that I will 
never use.

C ; related to  other suggestions.

If that way it´s not asquing you too much, I would like to have the note 
lenght thing implementd as I have been dreaming with that for ages,and  
Richie will agree too ( joke but serious)

How realistic would be to change the processor to a bigger one will all the 
otions included and some free space for even upcoming ones?  I  would pay 
$$$ for it as the sequencer is the main thing of my studio.

Regards;

Hans




>
> > When are going to be implemented the features suggested as
> > changing step
> > lenght pressing buttons and so and so..?
>
>The simple answer is - if I decide to implement them and when I get 
round to
>them.
>There are only 1,094 bytes left in the code ROM, so I'm going to have to
>choose carefully what goes in there.
>There is no promise of any specific functionality beyond what is already
>implemented. Think of the hundreds of extra features that have been 
added
>since I first sold P3 kits as an added bonus.
>
>Cheers,
>Colin f
>
>

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>>Ideally, I'll get the first run of production P3s done, they'll sell
like hot cakes, and I'll be able to give up my day job to work on
sequencer design.<<

colin, I'd like to place an order right now for another machine
identical to #73. yes. seriously.
I have been in correspondence with a chap called vince in the US (he
bought his 2 maqs because of r.m.i., & I have shared some operational
tips with him in the past). 
he persuaded me to look at the schrittmacher, which I did just now.
well, the online manual anyway, & the price..... the price.... 
vince, if you're reading this- the only thing the schritt has going
for it is the use of rotary encoders. 
stick it on ebay & buy a p3 instead. you would have enough change to
buy a proteus module aswell. or another p3. :-)

duncan/r.m.i.
(new album is finished- lots of p3 action)

> colin, I'd like to place an order right now for another machine
> identical to #73. yes. seriously.

Don't worry, I believe you ;-)

> the only thing the schritt has going
> for it is the use of rotary encoders. 

I have been looking into rotary encoders but there I have a few issues with
them.
First, the resolution is poor - the Spectrol encoders I've been playing with
have only 36 steps per revolution.
With a pot and an 8 bit convertor, you get 256. P3 only uses 128 steps at
most, but that means 4 revolutions to cover the necessary range with an
encoder, unless you use an acceleration algorithm.
But if you use an acceleration algorithm, you are breaking the direct link
between the input device and the input value.
That means keeping an eye on the numeric display at all times, so you know
where you've got to. You can't just tweak the knob and know roughly where
it's going to be unless you have very precise control of the speed you twist
at.

The other problem is cost. The Spectrol encoders are still 3 ukp+ even when
you buy them in hundreds.
That's 10 times the price of those Alpha pots.
You could use cheaper encoders, of the type I suspect Behringer must be
using in their new midi controllers, but you get what you pay for.
Cheap encoders are spec'ed for car stereo volume controls and the like, not
for regular tweaking.
Durability is going to be a big problem, and I suspect a lot of people are
going to change their minds about the 'bargain' they got when it wears out
in six months...

The one advantage encoders have over pots is their ability to be used as
relative inputs to adjust the stored value.
I think the better solution to this is the 360 degree pots, of the type
Alesis use in the Ion.
If money were no object, motorised pots would be the answer.

Cheers,
Colin f

>>well, you wouldn't want the ones they used in the ion, as they tend
to go bad. but seriously, this is a good idea... can you get 360 pots
with LED rings?<<

I like what the memorymoog does- there's a little window & when you
move one of the knobs, it shows you the stored value & also where the
knob's pointing right now. the stored value isn't edited until you
move the knob through it so that the little numbers match. hardly "the
wheel", but it does make life a bit more bearable. 
compare the source- one encoder (albeit the best encoder ever made- it
has a flywheel!) & the membrane switchgear from hell.... mine works
ok, but I keep it vertical to reduce the effects of age.
(must look at source schemos again- I think there's a spare slot in
it's addressing..... could use that to add another lfo or something...)

ahem.

much as I like the idea of encoders or infinite pots, I have
experienced both these & the cheap jobs used by behringer. I thought
the v-amp was too good to be true at £120, & it was. not only do the
encoders glitch, but they are insensitive to nuance. to make things
worse, the v-amp hisses louder than a real amp turned right up. uli,
wassup w' that? I should've bought the red pod instead, to go with my
black one, which does for the bass what the p3 does for analogue
synths. (see what I did there? back on topic... clever, eh?)

erm, anyway. when I said "identical".... I'd quite like the "track" &
"part" labelling per mr hawtin's machine. otherwise, just like #73.
can I send some money soon?

d.

> well, you wouldn't want the ones they used in the ion, as 
> they tend to go
> bad.

I thought they had fixed some pot problems with a firmware update ?
Sounds vaguely familiar...

> but seriously, this is a good idea... can you get 360 
> pots with LED
> rings?

LED rings aren't part of the pot or encoder as far as I'm aware.
You just feed the shaft of the encoder through a hole in a board with a ring
of standard LEDs around it.
The Nord Modular G2 appears to use the same Spectrol encoders I've been
playing with.
If only they'd used PLED displays. Those LCDs are so ugly ;-)

I'm not so sure about LED rings only though - they are kind of limited in
the resolution they can display.
I was thinking of maybe 3 digits of 5x7 LED matrix next to each
encoder/endless pot, that could show numeric and note values.
Pricey though...
The alternative would be a PLED display for each group of 4 pots/encoders.
Or maybe just finding a cheap way to motorise Alpha pots.

Cheers,
Colin f

> I like what the memorymoog does- there's a little window & when you
> move one of the knobs, it shows you the stored value & also where the
> knob's pointing right now. the stored value isn't edited until you
> move the knob through it so that the little numbers match. hardly "the
> wheel", but it does make life a bit more bearable. 

Pass-thru mode was a possible addition to P3, but I suspect it woudl be too
code space hungry now.

> compare the source- one encoder (albeit the best encoder ever made- it
> has a flywheel!)

The best thing about the Source encoder is it's optical. They should work
forever.

> & the membrane switchgear from hell.... mine works
> ok, but I keep it vertical to reduce the effects of age.

It wouldn't be too big a job to put a Source panel with real switches
together.
I had a load of a Source for a year or so, a long time ago.
It hurt to see it go...

> erm, anyway. when I said "identical".... I'd quite like the "track" &
> "part" labelling per mr hawtin's machine. otherwise, just like #73.
> can I send some money soon?

I hope so - still waiting on the quote for the metalwork. I'll phone them
tomorrow to gee them on...

Cheers,
Colin f

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Colin f wrote:

> The one advantage encoders have over pots is their ability to be used as
> relative inputs to adjust the stored value.
> I think the better solution to this is the 360 degree pots, of the type
> Alesis use in the Ion.

well, you wouldn't want the ones they used in the ion, as they tend to go
bad. but seriously, this is a good idea... can you get 360 pots with LED
rings? if so, that would be a good way to go... you'd have the relativity
and feedback of the encoder without its hassles.

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 12:08:30 -0600 (CST), bleep <bleep@waste.org>
wrote:

>well, you wouldn't want the ones they used in the ion, as they tend to go
>bad. but seriously, this is a good idea... can you get 360 pots with LED
>rings? if so, that would be a good way to go... you'd have the relativity
>and feedback of the encoder without its hassles.

With the added advantage that you could make pretty moving displays
using the LED rings - e.g. as the accumulator values change. 

Lights, pretty lights... 

Paul

---
Paul Nagle / Soft Room Music
Email: paul@softroom.co.uk www.softroom.co.uk
                           www.BogusFocus.com

Colin,

> LED rings aren't part of the pot or encoder as far as I'm aware.

It depends, you can buy the assembly 'complete'.
Though it is VERY expensive, compared to an encoder + LEDs.

> If only they'd used PLED displays. Those LCDs are so ugly ;-)

If only they did PLEDs in decent sizes!!

> I'm not so sure about LED rings only though - they are kind of limited in
> the resolution they can display.

Its to give you a 'feel' for the value, more as a point of refernce than
anything else.

> I was thinking of maybe 3 digits of 5x7 LED matrix next to each
> encoder/endless pot, that could show numeric and note values.
> Pricey though...

Very.

> The alternative would be a PLED display for each group of 4 pots/encoders.

Looked into this, again, expensive, you're look at 4 of them.
The big problem of course is that you probably can't put the displays close
enough together. For some reason the only PLEDs I've found have very wide
PCBs compared to some of the standard LCDs.

> Or maybe just finding a cheap way to motorise Alpha pots.

Hehe, lego?

Paul

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, Colin f wrote:

> I'm not so sure about LED rings only though - they are kind of limited in
> the resolution they can display.

i was thinking about this last night and you're right... for note values
especially, which often tend to be composed of values spaced close
together, or a couple of octaves apart at most, an LED ring might not be
so useful. this is even more true seeing as we have the ability to set a
range for each track.

i think the only way to do this is to use a Big-Ass Display (not to be
confused with a large human being displaying their bottom, or donkey, or a
collection of pictures of bottoms, or donkeys, of varying size).

the display would have to show both upper and lower knob row positions.
ideally, it would show positions and values for all four auxes, though
that might be a bit much. anyway, i see the note row being given a fixed
amount of vertical space, with the range being displayed for each note as
a black bar or something, with a white line within the bar showing where
the actual note is. a zoom range feature could be added to display only
the track note range in that fixed vertical space...

> I was thinking of maybe 3 digits of 5x7 LED matrix next to each
> encoder/endless pot, that could show numeric and note values.
> Pricey though...

probably not as much as the BAD

> The alternative would be a PLED display for each group of 4
> pots/encoders.

that would be interesting, though there is the PCB width problem...

> Or maybe just finding a cheap way to motorise Alpha pots.

two rows of motorized faders... oh yeah! :)

bleep.
out.

---
http://leichenfeld.iuma.com
http://thirdwavecollective.com