Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Can these new tools enable real time sysex control over the old VFX I
have sitting in a box, because the programming interface stinks so much.
If I get pushed over the top, maybe I can make it work.
I have the manual with the sysex information.
Where do I start this process?

Thanks

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Can these new tools enable real time sysex control over the old VFX I
> have sitting in a box, because the programming interface stinks so much.
> If I get pushed over the top, maybe I can make it work.
> I have the manual with the sysex information.
> Where do I start this process?
> 
> Thanks
>

Sorry, with the BCR2000.

Hi

> Can these new tools enable real time sysex control over the old VFX I
> have sitting in a box, because the programming interface stinks so much.

As you have the sysex info you should be able to write a preset to
control the VFX1.

Most synths allowed for individual parameters to be changed with a
sysex message. Some, as we have discovered, only allowed for a
complete preset to be sent by sysex.

I don't know the VFX, but if you're not too sure about sysex, scan the
sysex info and put it in the files section.
I have made a new folder "Sysex Data". Drop it in there and I'll have
a look..

In fact I would be very cool for you to start a library of sysex info
 for hardware.
I'll drop in what I have and every one else, feel free to add to the
files. 
 
> If I get pushed over the top, maybe I can make it work.
> I have the manual with the sysex information.
> Where do I start this process?

Go to the Wiki to get the basic info on how to program the BCR as well
as info on the .tx command in BCSecrets in the Documentation section.
http://bc2000.pingdynasty.com/ (this link is on the BC2000 home page
)
In the files section...
You can grab Mark's editor if you don't like writing code or mine if
you do.
Grab a few of the other presets and have a look at. They are just text
files.
Use Mark's Midi Implementation to use as your reference.

Read some of the past messages. There have been quite a few folk, like
you, starting from scratch that have written presets for hardware synths.

I came here looking for the sysex info for the BCR - Behringer
wouldn't release it. Together we managed to sort most of it out.

Finally, post any problems back here.

I hope this helps you get started.
All the best

Royce

Thanks for the reply.
Please take a look at the doc I uploaded.
Tell me if it is possible.
Then, if you can get me started a little, I will press on ahead.
Thank you,
Kip


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> 
> > Can these new tools enable real time sysex control over the old VFX I
> > have sitting in a box, because the programming interface stinks so
much.
> 
> As you have the sysex info you should be able to write a preset to
> control the VFX1.
> 
> Most synths allowed for individual parameters to be changed with a
> sysex message. Some, as we have discovered, only allowed for a
> complete preset to be sent by sysex.
> 
> I don't know the VFX, but if you're not too sure about sysex, scan the
> sysex info and put it in the files section.
> I have made a new folder "Sysex Data". Drop it in there and I'll have
> a look..
> 
> In fact I would be very cool for you to start a library of sysex info
>  for hardware.
> I'll drop in what I have and every one else, feel free to add to the
> files. 
>  
> > If I get pushed over the top, maybe I can make it work.
> > I have the manual with the sysex information.
> > Where do I start this process?
> 
> Go to the Wiki to get the basic info on how to program the BCR as well
> as info on the .tx command in BCSecrets in the Documentation section.
> http://bc2000.pingdynasty.com/ (this link is on the BC2000 home page
> )
> In the files section...
> You can grab Mark's editor if you don't like writing code or mine if
> you do.
> Grab a few of the other presets and have a look at. They are just text
> files.
> Use Mark's Midi Implementation to use as your reference.
> 
> Read some of the past messages. There have been quite a few folk, like
> you, starting from scratch that have written presets for hardware
synths.

> 
> I came here looking for the sysex info for the BCR - Behringer
> wouldn't release it. Together we managed to sort most of it out.
> 
> Finally, post any problems back here.
> 
> I hope this helps you get started.
> All the best
> 
> Royce
>

Royce,

Thanks for the jump start, so this should do the filter cutoff on
encoder 49, correct?

I will try to get to this when/if my son takes a nap! 

I will post my results here.

Kip


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Kip
> 
> > Please take a look at the doc I uploaded.
> > Tell me if it is possible.
> Yes it is a very clear sysex implimentation
> 
> > Then, if you can get me started a little, I will press on ahead.
> 
> The sysex for changing as parameter starts with the header
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 - This is always the start for the Ensonic VFX
> next byte is the base Midi channel $00 to $0F
> then the command number. For changing a parameter it is $01
> So a header for parameter when on channel 1
> 
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01
> 
> You need to determine the address offset in the parameter list.
> Section 3.1.2  says
> Command type (parameter $01)
> Voice number 0 to 5
> Parameter Page 0 to 31
> Parameter slot 0 to 5
> 
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 $Voice $Page $Slot
> 
> 
> The next bit is a bit confusing.
> There are 2 8-bit data bytes, but Midi data bytes can only be 7-bit so
> the 2 bytes are broken up and sent as 7 bits
> 
> HHHHLLLL  8-bits of data becomes
> 0000HHHH
> 0000LLLL
> 
> The value appears to really be 16bit (2 8-bit bytes a high byte and a
> low byte)
> So...
> HHHHLLLL hhhhllll is the 16 bit number sent like this
> 0000HHHH
> 0000LLLL
> 0000hhhh
> 0000llll
> 
> The BCR can only cope with 14 bit values, but can handle them broken up
> like this.
> You will need to send the following .tx message to the BCR
> 
> .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 $Voice $Page $Slot val12.13 val8.11 val4.7
> val0.3 $F7
> 
> of course the $Voice $Page $Slot have the correct numbers instead of the
> words.
> Use section 5 Parameter Page and Slot Definition
> 
> As an example lets use the Filter#1 Cutoff as it is fairly straight
> forward (top of pp 12)
> The Filter pages are 12 and 13,  so for Filter#1  we use 12.
> The Cutoff is in slot #1 and has a range of 0 to 127 - as this is less
> than 14bits we are OK.
> In our example we will use voice# 1 which is number 0
> Here is the .tx statement.
> 
> .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 0 12 1    val12.13 val8.11 val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> 
> The numbers after val are the bit positions in a 14 bit number, val8.11
> = bits 8 9 10 & 11
> With the BCR you can mix hexadecimal and decimal numbers ($ for
> hexadecimal)
> 
> One of the particular problems you face (and I do with my Emu Morpheus)
> is that a few old synths used negative numbers
> 
> Page 2 slot 4 is the Filter#1 Modulation amount and the values go from
> -127 to 127.
> For values less than 13 bit numbers there is a tricky way to get around
> this, but not if the values are 16bit as is your machine.
> eg of negative range
> 3 = $03
> 2 = $02
>   1 = $01
>   0 = $00
>   -1= $FF
>   -2 = $FE
> -3 = $FD
> 
> in 16 bit numbers
> 3 = $0003
> 2 = $0002
>   1 = $0001
>   0 = $0000
>   -1= $FFFF
>   -2 = $FFFE
> -3 = $FFFD
>   which to us $FFFF etc. are greater than 14 bit numbers so for
> parameters like this you can only use the positive side of their range
> (0 to 127)
> 
> Now after saying all this, I don't have a VFX to test this on so I hope
> I am correct but you might need to experiment a little .
> 
> Get a copy of my editor (I'm sure you can do this in Mark's editor but I
> am not familiar enough with it) and copy (cut and paste) this code below
> into the script and send it to the BCR.
> 
> It just goes into the edit buffer so no presets will be changed unless
> you save it.
> 
> $rev R1
> $preset
>    .init
> $encoder 49
>    .showval on
>    .mode 1dot
>    .resolution 96 96 96 96
>    .default 100
>    .minmax 0 127
>   .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 0 12 1    val12.13  val8.11  val4.7 
val0.3

> $F7
> 
> $end
> 
> Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Royce
>

Royce,
I figured out how to route the midi to from the BCR.
Here is my current setup.
BCR> (usb to midiox mapped to motu (usb) midi interface midi out 1>vfx
Midiox is input and output window agree.  Midi out show activity on
the motu midi interface.
When I turn the knob 49 any amount.
The VFX responds "Midi sys-ex receive error press any key to continue"
I suspect I have some sort of time issue with the vfx and receiving
sysex messages. 
When I use an editor librarian I also get trouble when trying to edit
a preset.  I often get that message.  I fear that the preset and sound
editing structure will not allow real time tweaking of this stuff.
The vfx has a compare button, basically (as far as I know)a patch
memory to compare your changes to the previous sound you are editing.
A buffer if you will to go back to if you don't like the changes.
I often got the above sysex error message when using the editor/lib
program.
If I press a button on the vfx it will reset the error message,
however, every time I turn that knob 49 it errors out.
I do not have any midi looping back, only midi input cable connected
to the vfx. 
Thoughts or ideas/recommendations of what to try next?

Thanks, Kip

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Royce,
> 
> Thanks for the jump start, so this should do the filter cutoff on
> encoder 49, correct?
> 
> I will try to get to this when/if my son takes a nap! 
> 
> I will post my results here.
> 
> Kip
> 
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kip
> > 
> > > Please take a look at the doc I uploaded.
> > > Tell me if it is possible.
> > Yes it is a very clear sysex implimentation
> > 
> > > Then, if you can get me started a little, I will press on ahead.
> > 
> > The sysex for changing as parameter starts with the header
> > $F0 $0F $05 $00 - This is always the start for the Ensonic VFX
> > next byte is the base Midi channel $00 to $0F
> > then the command number. For changing a parameter it is $01
> > So a header for parameter when on channel 1
> > 
> > $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01
> > 
> > You need to determine the address offset in the parameter list.
> > Section 3.1.2  says
> > Command type (parameter $01)
> > Voice number 0 to 5
> > Parameter Page 0 to 31
> > Parameter slot 0 to 5
> > 
> > $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 $Voice $Page $Slot
> > 
> > 
> > The next bit is a bit confusing.
> > There are 2 8-bit data bytes, but Midi data bytes can only be 7-bit so
> > the 2 bytes are broken up and sent as 7 bits
> > 
> > HHHHLLLL  8-bits of data becomes
> > 0000HHHH
> > 0000LLLL
> > 
> > The value appears to really be 16bit (2 8-bit bytes a high byte and a
> > low byte)
> > So...
> > HHHHLLLL hhhhllll is the 16 bit number sent like this
> > 0000HHHH
> > 0000LLLL
> > 0000hhhh
> > 0000llll
> > 
> > The BCR can only cope with 14 bit values, but can handle them
broken up
> > like this.
> > You will need to send the following .tx message to the BCR
> > 
> > .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 $Voice $Page $Slot val12.13 val8.11 val4.7
> > val0.3 $F7
> > 
> > of course the $Voice $Page $Slot have the correct numbers instead
of the
> > words.
> > Use section 5 Parameter Page and Slot Definition
> > 
> > As an example lets use the Filter#1 Cutoff as it is fairly straight
> > forward (top of pp 12)
> > The Filter pages are 12 and 13,  so for Filter#1  we use 12.
> > The Cutoff is in slot #1 and has a range of 0 to 127 - as this is less
> > than 14bits we are OK.
> > In our example we will use voice# 1 which is number 0
> > Here is the .tx statement.
> > 
> > .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 0 12 1    val12.13 val8.11 val4.7
val0.3 $F7
> > 
> > The numbers after val are the bit positions in a 14 bit number,
val8.11
> > = bits 8 9 10 & 11
> > With the BCR you can mix hexadecimal and decimal numbers ($ for
> > hexadecimal)
> > 
> > One of the particular problems you face (and I do with my Emu
Morpheus)
> > is that a few old synths used negative numbers
> > 
> > Page 2 slot 4 is the Filter#1 Modulation amount and the values go from
> > -127 to 127.
> > For values less than 13 bit numbers there is a tricky way to get
around
> > this, but not if the values are 16bit as is your machine.
> > eg of negative range
> > 3 = $03
> > 2 = $02
> >   1 = $01
> >   0 = $00
> >   -1= $FF
> >   -2 = $FE
> > -3 = $FD
> > 
> > in 16 bit numbers
> > 3 = $0003
> > 2 = $0002
> >   1 = $0001
> >   0 = $0000
> >   -1= $FFFF
> >   -2 = $FFFE
> > -3 = $FFFD
> >   which to us $FFFF etc. are greater than 14 bit numbers so for
> > parameters like this you can only use the positive side of their range
> > (0 to 127)
> > 
> > Now after saying all this, I don't have a VFX to test this on so I
hope
> > I am correct but you might need to experiment a little .
> > 
> > Get a copy of my editor (I'm sure you can do this in Mark's editor
but I
> > am not familiar enough with it) and copy (cut and paste) this code
below

> > into the script and send it to the BCR.
> > 
> > It just goes into the edit buffer so no presets will be changed unless
> > you save it.
> > 
> > $rev R1
> > $preset
> >    .init
> > $encoder 49
> >    .showval on
> >    .mode 1dot
> >    .resolution 96 96 96 96
> >    .default 100
> >    .minmax 0 127
> >   .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 0 12 1    val12.13  val8.11  val4.7 
> val0.3
> > $F7
> > 
> > $end
> > 
> > Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on.
> > 
> > All the best
> > 
> > Royce
> >
>

Royce - 
First .tx string no result, will reinitialize after a little while of
turning the knob.
Second .tx string causes sysex err and keyboard reinitialize immediately.
Judging by the midiquest dump i posted in the sysex section, from
midiquest, filter cutoff #1 has a 13 where yours has a twelve.
I tired to do this with the second .tx string. Which btw matches the
dump from midiquest, however, crash.

Hmmmm... my sysex knowledge is not so good, yet.

Thanks for all the help.
Kip



--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Kip
> 
> > I figured out how to route the midi to from the BCR.
> > Here is my current setup.
> > BCR> (usb to midiox mapped to motu (usb) midi interface midi out 1>vfx
> > Midiox is input and output window agree. Midi out show activity on
> > the motu midi interface.
> > When I turn the knob 49 any amount.
> > The VFX responds "Midi sys-ex receive error press any key to continue"
> > I suspect I have some sort of time issue with the vfx and receiving
> > sysex messages.
> 
> Well... long distance programming without anything to test on means I am
> likely to miss something and I did
> Header is OK
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 (chan 1)
> but
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $CommandType $Voice $Page $Slot $4byte-value $F7
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 $Voice $Page $Slot $4byte-value $F7
> should be
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $MessageType $CommandType $Voice $Page $Slot
> $4byte-value $F7
> MessageType is 0, CommandType is 1  (see section 3.1 and 3.1.1)
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $01 $Voice $Page $Slot $4byte-value $F7
> so the new .tx line should be
>    .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $01 0 12 1 val12.13 val8.11 val4.7 val0.3
> $F7
> 
> BUT I loaded MidiQuest and checked its output and got
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $00 $00 $0D $00 1 val12.13 val8.11
> val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> The MessageType is 2bytes or the CommandType is 2bytes (?)
> The Page is a 4 byte number and the Slot is 2 bytes long.
> I haven't found this in the sysex spec. and SoundQuest get their
> templates wrong a lot of the time.
> But if the first one doesn't fix you problem try
>    .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 0 0 0 12 0 1 val12.13 val8.11
> val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> 
> If you have an editor, hook it up to MidiOx and see what you get for the
> Cutoff on filter#1
> Post the output here if it is different.
> 
> It is very frustrating not begin able to test before sending the info,
> but together we should be able to work it out.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Royce
>

Royce - more to the point, perhaps, when I tweak the midiquest filter
cutoff#1 the sysex matches, all but the number 12 on your second
string. However,  I get the midi sysex error when I am connected to
the vfx from midiquest and tweaking that control in real time.
The vfx may have some timing trouble, I was trying in to explain before.  
So you appear to have the correct .tx string, however, the vfx does
not seem to handle it from either bcr2000 or from midiquest.

So, I am not sure how to proceed from here.
Seems like a dead end or some funky midi timing thing.
Kip


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Kip
> 
> > I figured out how to route the midi to from the BCR.
> > Here is my current setup.
> > BCR> (usb to midiox mapped to motu (usb) midi interface midi out 1>vfx
> > Midiox is input and output window agree. Midi out show activity on
> > the motu midi interface.
> > When I turn the knob 49 any amount.
> > The VFX responds "Midi sys-ex receive error press any key to continue"
> > I suspect I have some sort of time issue with the vfx and receiving
> > sysex messages.
> 
> Well... long distance programming without anything to test on means I am
> likely to miss something and I did
> Header is OK
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 (chan 1)
> but
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $CommandType $Voice $Page $Slot $4byte-value $F7
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $01 $Voice $Page $Slot $4byte-value $F7
> should be
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $MessageType $CommandType $Voice $Page $Slot
> $4byte-value $F7
> MessageType is 0, CommandType is 1  (see section 3.1 and 3.1.1)
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $01 $Voice $Page $Slot $4byte-value $F7
> so the new .tx line should be
>    .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $01 0 12 1 val12.13 val8.11 val4.7 val0.3
> $F7
> 
> BUT I loaded MidiQuest and checked its output and got
> $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $00 $00 $0D $00 1 val12.13 val8.11
> val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> The MessageType is 2bytes or the CommandType is 2bytes (?)
> The Page is a 4 byte number and the Slot is 2 bytes long.
> I haven't found this in the sysex spec. and SoundQuest get their
> templates wrong a lot of the time.
> But if the first one doesn't fix you problem try
>    .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 0 0 0 12 0 1 val12.13 val8.11
> val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> 
> If you have an editor, hook it up to MidiOx and see what you get for the
> Cutoff on filter#1
> Post the output here if it is different.
> 
> It is very frustrating not begin able to test before sending the info,
> but together we should be able to work it out.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Royce
>

> First .tx string no result, will reinitialize after a little while of
> turning the knob.

dash it all !

> Second .tx string causes sysex err and keyboard reinitialize
immediately.
So we are both wrong

> Judging by the midiquest dump i posted in the sysex section, from
> midiquest, filter cutoff #1 has a 13 where yours has a twelve.

I noticed that too but
pp 12 -
Page 12 Filter #1
Page 13 Filter #2
Both the Page and Slot start at 0 so there isn't that sort of problem.
I have had to make quite a few "adjustments" to MidiQuest over the years
to get it to work.

Have you checked  that the VFX  is set to channel 1 (or 0 if they work
that way) for the global Midi channel or Sysex Global channel or
whatever it is called?

> I tired to do this with the second .tx string. Which btw matches the
> dump from midiquest, however, crash.

>
> Hmmmm... my sysex knowledge is not so good, yet.
We all seem to be learning.

Can you get the VFX to output parameter sysex?

I see that there is a VFX - SD and a VFX-SD II in MidiQuest. What model
is yours?

Can you get your Editor to work on any parameter on the VFX?
(what is it and what is the sysex string in MidiOx?)
If you can, try to modify the .tx line and see if you can control the
VFX from the BCR.

Royce

Hey...
I have the vanilla VFX no sd or sdII.
I have the midi base chans set to 1 no 0 option.
Alright, Royce, I will play around with midiquest to see if i can get
ANY realtime control over a patch edit.  
If I do, then I will come back with more.
I am feeling very pessimistic at this point.  
I remember how often I got a crash out of midiquest and the vfx in the
past.
I will try some more, sigh!

Thanks for your time.
Maybe it's time for this thing to get the boot! 
The vfx that is...

Kip 

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:

>
> 
> > First .tx string no result, will reinitialize after a little while of
> > turning the knob.
> 
> dash it all !
> 
> > Second .tx string causes sysex err and keyboard reinitialize
> immediately.
> So we are both wrong
> 
> > Judging by the midiquest dump i posted in the sysex section, from
> > midiquest, filter cutoff #1 has a 13 where yours has a twelve.
> 
> I noticed that too but
> pp 12 -
> Page 12 Filter #1
> Page 13 Filter #2
> Both the Page and Slot start at 0 so there isn't that sort of problem.
> I have had to make quite a few "adjustments" to MidiQuest over the years
> to get it to work.
> 
> Have you checked  that the VFX  is set to channel 1 (or 0 if they work
> that way) for the global Midi channel or Sysex Global channel or
> whatever it is called?
> 
> > I tired to do this with the second .tx string. Which btw matches the
> > dump from midiquest, however, crash.
> 
> >
> > Hmmmm... my sysex knowledge is not so good, yet.
> We all seem to be learning.
> 
> Can you get the VFX to output parameter sysex?
> 
> I see that there is a VFX - SD and a VFX-SD II in MidiQuest. What model
> is yours?
> 
> Can you get your Editor to work on any parameter on the VFX?
> (what is it and what is the sysex string in MidiOx?)
> If you can, try to modify the .tx line and see if you can control the
> VFX from the BCR.
> 
> Royce
>

Royce,

I do have vfx sending sysex....

See new screen shot in file section, this was tweaking the filter
cutoff #1.
I did not compare it to what you have sent me yet, my son needs
attention, so this is just a quick email.
Kip



--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Hey...
> I have the vanilla VFX no sd or sdII.
> I have the midi base chans set to 1 no 0 option.
> Alright, Royce, I will play around with midiquest to see if i can get
> ANY realtime control over a patch edit.  
> If I do, then I will come back with more.
> I am feeling very pessimistic at this point.  
> I remember how often I got a crash out of midiquest and the vfx in the
> past.
> I will try some more, sigh!
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> Maybe it's time for this thing to get the boot! 
> The vfx that is...
> 
> Kip 
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > First .tx string no result, will reinitialize after a little
while of
> > > turning the knob.
> > 
> > dash it all !
> > 
> > > Second .tx string causes sysex err and keyboard reinitialize
> > immediately.
> > So we are both wrong
> > 
> > > Judging by the midiquest dump i posted in the sysex section, from
> > > midiquest, filter cutoff #1 has a 13 where yours has a twelve.
> > 
> > I noticed that too but
> > pp 12 -
> > Page 12 Filter #1
> > Page 13 Filter #2
> > Both the Page and Slot start at 0 so there isn't that sort of problem.
> > I have had to make quite a few "adjustments" to MidiQuest over the
years
> > to get it to work.
> > 
> > Have you checked  that the VFX  is set to channel 1 (or 0 if they work
> > that way) for the global Midi channel or Sysex Global channel or
> > whatever it is called?
> > 
> > > I tired to do this with the second .tx string. Which btw matches the
> > > dump from midiquest, however, crash.
> > 
> > >
> > > Hmmmm... my sysex knowledge is not so good, yet.
> > We all seem to be learning.
> > 
> > Can you get the VFX to output parameter sysex?
> > 
> > I see that there is a VFX - SD and a VFX-SD II in MidiQuest. What
model

> > is yours?
> > 
> > Can you get your Editor to work on any parameter on the VFX?
> > (what is it and what is the sysex string in MidiOx?)
> > If you can, try to modify the .tx line and see if you can control the
> > VFX from the BCR.
> > 
> > Royce
> >
>

Royce,
I found another manual online, version 1.3, I have version 1.2 of the
manual.
The filter output page for filter #1 cutoff is 13.
In the newer manual.
So... If I have the sysex coming from the vfx see the screen shot, how
do I put it into the .tx message and is it the same .tx message that
you sent me.  I don't know how to handle the val12.13 ... what is that?
I have not given up yet.
Something must come thru with this...
Can you send me another .tx string based on the sysex from the vfx?
Thanks,
Kip

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Royce,
> 
> I do have vfx sending sysex....
> 
> See new screen shot in file section, this was tweaking the filter
> cutoff #1.
> I did not compare it to what you have sent me yet, my son needs
> attention, so this is just a quick email.
> Kip
> 
> 
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey...
> > I have the vanilla VFX no sd or sdII.
> > I have the midi base chans set to 1 no 0 option.
> > Alright, Royce, I will play around with midiquest to see if i can get
> > ANY realtime control over a patch edit.  
> > If I do, then I will come back with more.
> > I am feeling very pessimistic at this point.  
> > I remember how often I got a crash out of midiquest and the vfx in the
> > past.
> > I will try some more, sigh!
> > 
> > Thanks for your time.
> > Maybe it's time for this thing to get the boot! 
> > The vfx that is...
> > 
> > Kip 
> > 
> > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > > First .tx string no result, will reinitialize after a little
> while of
> > > > turning the knob.
> > > 
> > > dash it all !
> > > 
> > > > Second .tx string causes sysex err and keyboard reinitialize
> > > immediately.
> > > So we are both wrong
> > > 
> > > > Judging by the midiquest dump i posted in the sysex section, from
> > > > midiquest, filter cutoff #1 has a 13 where yours has a twelve.
> > > 
> > > I noticed that too but
> > > pp 12 -
> > > Page 12 Filter #1
> > > Page 13 Filter #2
> > > Both the Page and Slot start at 0 so there isn't that sort of
problem.
> > > I have had to make quite a few "adjustments" to MidiQuest over the
> years
> > > to get it to work.
> > > 
> > > Have you checked  that the VFX  is set to channel 1 (or 0 if
they work
> > > that way) for the global Midi channel or Sysex Global channel or
> > > whatever it is called?
> > > 
> > > > I tired to do this with the second .tx string. Which btw
matches the
> > > > dump from midiquest, however, crash.
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > Hmmmm... my sysex knowledge is not so good, yet.
> > > We all seem to be learning.
> > > 
> > > Can you get the VFX to output parameter sysex?
> > > 
> > > I see that there is a VFX - SD and a VFX-SD II in MidiQuest. What
> model
> > > is yours?
> > > 
> > > Can you get your Editor to work on any parameter on the VFX?
> > > (what is it and what is the sysex string in MidiOx?)
> > > If you can, try to modify the .tx line and see if you can
control the

> > > VFX from the BCR.
> > > 
> > > Royce
> > >
> >
>

Royce,
Here is the .tx I edited based on the screen dump.

.tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $02 $00 13 $00 1 $00 $00
val4.7 val0.3 $F7

Contact established we have contact!

Now, I can't be playing a note while I adjust the control or it will
error out. I get the "Midi sys-ex receive error press any key to
continue."
No wait, I take that back, I can't be playing multiple notes.
Hmm... trying to isolate when it errors out.
When I hold a note, it will let me tweak the knob!!!!
Yeah.  But sometimes it still errors out.
Weird...
Progress!
Now - advice on how to add more?
You have seen my sysex, where should I go next in terms of funkyness
to deal with?

Thanks bunch,
Cheers!
Kip
--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Royce,
> I found another manual online, version 1.3, I have version 1.2 of the
> manual.
> The filter output page for filter #1 cutoff is 13.
> In the newer manual.
> So... If I have the sysex coming from the vfx see the screen shot, how
> do I put it into the .tx message and is it the same .tx message that
> you sent me.  I don't know how to handle the val12.13 ... what is that?
> I have not given up yet.
> Something must come thru with this...
> Can you send me another .tx string based on the sysex from the vfx?
> Thanks,
> Kip
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> >
> > Royce,
> > 
> > I do have vfx sending sysex....
> > 
> > See new screen shot in file section, this was tweaking the filter
> > cutoff #1.
> > I did not compare it to what you have sent me yet, my son needs
> > attention, so this is just a quick email.
> > Kip
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey...
> > > I have the vanilla VFX no sd or sdII.
> > > I have the midi base chans set to 1 no 0 option.
> > > Alright, Royce, I will play around with midiquest to see if i
can get
> > > ANY realtime control over a patch edit.  
> > > If I do, then I will come back with more.
> > > I am feeling very pessimistic at this point.  
> > > I remember how often I got a crash out of midiquest and the vfx
in the
> > > past.
> > > I will try some more, sigh!
> > > 
> > > Thanks for your time.
> > > Maybe it's time for this thing to get the boot! 
> > > The vfx that is...
> > > 
> > > Kip 
> > > 
> > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > > First .tx string no result, will reinitialize after a little
> > while of
> > > > > turning the knob.
> > > > 
> > > > dash it all !
> > > > 
> > > > > Second .tx string causes sysex err and keyboard reinitialize
> > > > immediately.
> > > > So we are both wrong
> > > > 
> > > > > Judging by the midiquest dump i posted in the sysex section,
from

> > > > > midiquest, filter cutoff #1 has a 13 where yours has a twelve.
> > > > 
> > > > I noticed that too but
> > > > pp 12 -
> > > > Page 12 Filter #1
> > > > Page 13 Filter #2
> > > > Both the Page and Slot start at 0 so there isn't that sort of
> problem.
> > > > I have had to make quite a few "adjustments" to MidiQuest over the
> > years
> > > > to get it to work.
> > > > 
> > > > Have you checked  that the VFX  is set to channel 1 (or 0 if
> they work
> > > > that way) for the global Midi channel or Sysex Global channel or
> > > > whatever it is called?
> > > > 
> > > > > I tired to do this with the second .tx string. Which btw
> matches the
> > > > > dump from midiquest, however, crash.
> > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > Hmmmm... my sysex knowledge is not so good, yet.
> > > > We all seem to be learning.
> > > > 
> > > > Can you get the VFX to output parameter sysex?
> > > > 
> > > > I see that there is a VFX - SD and a VFX-SD II in MidiQuest. What
> > model
> > > > is yours?
> > > > 
> > > > Can you get your Editor to work on any parameter on the VFX?
> > > > (what is it and what is the sysex string in MidiOx?)
> > > > If you can, try to modify the .tx line and see if you can
> control the
> > > > VFX from the BCR.
> > > > 
> > > > Royce
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Ok,
Progress!
I have 8 controls mapped, filter1 cutoff and filter2 cutoff, lfo
depth, rate, delay, noise src, pitch lfo mod.

How do I do buttons?
like filter#1 type with two options?
Filter#2 type with 0-3 4 options?
lfo waveshape with 0-6 or 7 options, a button that will incriment?

etc...

Thanks, 
Kip



--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> wrote:
>
> Royce,
> Here is the .tx I edited based on the screen dump.
> 
> .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $02 $00 13 $00 1 $00 $00
> val4.7 val0.3 $F7
> 
> Contact established we have contact!
> 
> Now, I can't be playing a note while I adjust the control or it will
> error out. I get the "Midi sys-ex receive error press any key to
> continue."
> No wait, I take that back, I can't be playing multiple notes.
> Hmm... trying to isolate when it errors out.
> When I hold a note, it will let me tweak the knob!!!!
> Yeah.  But sometimes it still errors out.
> Weird...
> Progress!
> Now - advice on how to add more?
> You have seen my sysex, where should I go next in terms of funkyness
> to deal with?
> 
> Thanks bunch,
> Cheers!
> Kip
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> >
> > Royce,
> > I found another manual online, version 1.3, I have version 1.2 of the
> > manual.
> > The filter output page for filter #1 cutoff is 13.
> > In the newer manual.
> > So... If I have the sysex coming from the vfx see the screen shot, how
> > do I put it into the .tx message and is it the same .tx message that
> > you sent me.  I don't know how to handle the val12.13 ... what is
that?
> > I have not given up yet.
> > Something must come thru with this...
> > Can you send me another .tx string based on the sysex from the vfx?
> > Thanks,
> > Kip
> > 
> > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Royce,
> > > 
> > > I do have vfx sending sysex....
> > > 
> > > See new screen shot in file section, this was tweaking the filter
> > > cutoff #1.
> > > I did not compare it to what you have sent me yet, my son needs
> > > attention, so this is just a quick email.
> > > Kip
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hey...
> > > > I have the vanilla VFX no sd or sdII.
> > > > I have the midi base chans set to 1 no 0 option.
> > > > Alright, Royce, I will play around with midiquest to see if i
> can get
> > > > ANY realtime control over a patch edit.  
> > > > If I do, then I will come back with more.
> > > > I am feeling very pessimistic at this point.  
> > > > I remember how often I got a crash out of midiquest and the vfx
> in the
> > > > past.
> > > > I will try some more, sigh!
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for your time.
> > > > Maybe it's time for this thing to get the boot! 
> > > > The vfx that is...
> > > > 
> > > > Kip 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > > First .tx string no result, will reinitialize after a little
> > > while of
> > > > > > turning the knob.
> > > > > 
> > > > > dash it all !
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Second .tx string causes sysex err and keyboard reinitialize
> > > > > immediately.
> > > > > So we are both wrong
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Judging by the midiquest dump i posted in the sysex section,
> from
> > > > > > midiquest, filter cutoff #1 has a 13 where yours has a twelve.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I noticed that too but
> > > > > pp 12 -
> > > > > Page 12 Filter #1
> > > > > Page 13 Filter #2
> > > > > Both the Page and Slot start at 0 so there isn't that sort of
> > problem.
> > > > > I have had to make quite a few "adjustments" to MidiQuest
over the
> > > years
> > > > > to get it to work.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Have you checked  that the VFX  is set to channel 1 (or 0 if
> > they work
> > > > > that way) for the global Midi channel or Sysex Global channel or
> > > > > whatever it is called?
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I tired to do this with the second .tx string. Which btw
> > matches the
> > > > > > dump from midiquest, however, crash.
> > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hmmmm... my sysex knowledge is not so good, yet.
> > > > > We all seem to be learning.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Can you get the VFX to output parameter sysex?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I see that there is a VFX - SD and a VFX-SD II in MidiQuest.
What

> > > model
> > > > > is yours?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Can you get your Editor to work on any parameter on the VFX?
> > > > > (what is it and what is the sysex string in MidiOx?)
> > > > > If you can, try to modify the .tx line and see if you can
> > control the
> > > > > VFX from the BCR.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Royce
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hey Royce, 

Thanks for all this help!
BTW - does your dx7 preset work with FM7?

More replies below.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Kip
> 
> ah.. the hi's and lows of sysex programming.
> 
> It  sounds like you are on the right track.
> On my DX7 changing any value shuts the note off abruptly so you can't
> change , say, the attack time while holding a note. All the other FM
> synths seem to be fine so it could be just an update in the firmware on
> my synth and perhaps the same for the VFX as well.


I have not tried doing any envelop control yet.
Perhaps today...


> 
> val12.13  is the most significant 2 bits in the 14bit BCR value.
> As you machine deals with a 16 bit values it would have been nice if 
> there was such a thing as val12.15 , but there isn't (as far as I know)
> The VFX breaks up the 16 bit number into four Midi data bytes with 4bits
> of  VFX data in the lower part of the Midi byte.

So on say the LFO rate which has 0-99 what should I set that val up as?

And the ones with -127 127? How to deal with them.
Here is the link to the new manual.
http://www.soundprogramming.net/manuals/Ensoniq_VFX_Manual.pdf
Now, a question came up with me yesterday, about the page #
Since this is hex, and I don't know hex so well...
on the lfo rate the page is 18 which would be 1 then 2 in the next ?
I got the page numbers directly from the vfx, by tweaking the control,
then editing the previous .tx you gave me.  Reverse engineer I
suppose. I will come back and post the script as it currently stands,
but have to boot up a different computer, will repost in a min.




> The best we can do is a 14bit number broken up into three Midi bytes
> with 4bits of data and one Midi byte with 2bits of VFXdata.
> We loose the biggest 2bits of the 16bit number in the val12.13 byte
> 

Does that mean the value on the synth, never gets to the maximum?

> 
> As far as code for using a button to increment...
> 
> $button 41
>    .showvalue on
>    .mode incval 1
>    .default 0
>    .minmax 0 6
>    .tx   your message
> 
> Your message is the same as it is for the encoder
> if you used
> .tx $F0 $0F $05 $00 $00 $00 $00 $01 $00 $02 $00 13 $00 1 $00 $00 val4.7
> val0.3 $F7
> it should edit the filter cutoff with the button (you would need to
> change the minmax values to be useful)
> 
> There is an $02 I haven't seen before. Can you post the sysex pages from
> the new manual?

Link above.  I will try to isolate those pages for reposting, since
this is a big file.

> 
> The number after the 'incval' is the step size e.g.  if it was 2 the
> value would go 2 4 6 0 2 4 6 0 .. with each press
> and if a negative number is used it will count backward eg if it was
> incval -1 the values would be  5 4 3 2 1 0 6 5 4 3 2 1 0...  with each
> press. When it reaches the max value it starts again at the min value.
> 
> Note: if you try to get this preset back from the BCR the incval stuff
> won't be there.


Does that mean I will have to reload it everytime I want to use it?
Meaning resend it to the bcr from your editor?
Or how to save it as a preset?  
If I save as preset will the incval be gone when I reload the preset?



> It is one of the few problems with the BCR firmware.
> 
> So it is one way programming for this stuff.
> 
> Well done.  It sounds like you are nearly there.
> 
> 
> Do you have the latest version of the OS in the synth?
> 

Yes - rom 2.3

> 
> Royce
>

> BTW - does your dx7 preset work with FM7?

NI FM7 VST?
FM7 can read DX7 patches, but it would be much easier to assign CCs to
the BCR controls and hook those into the VST. No need to worry about
sysex for VST's.
You could set up the .minmax values so they would be consistent, but I
not sure even that is necessary.

> > val12.13  is the most significant 2 bits in the 14bit BCR value.
> > As you machine deals with a 16 bit values it would have been nice if 
> > there was such a thing as val12.15 , but there isn't (as far as I
know)
> > The VFX breaks up the 16 bit number into four Midi data bytes with
4bits
> > of  VFX data in the lower part of the Midi byte.
> 
> So on say the LFO rate which has 0-99 what should I set that val up as?

You need to have all the bits in the correct order no matter what the
value is. as in the the last 4 bytes of the .tx (not counting the $F7)

 .tx $F7 ....... val12.13 val8.11 val4.7 val0.3 $F7 


val12.13 and val8.11 will always be 0 with such a small range (0-99)
and you could simply substitute this in the tx 

 .tx $F7 ....... 0 0 val4.7 val0.3 $F7 

but for simplicity sake I would leave all the val words in place 
until you understand the machine a little better and even then I don't
think would change it anyway.


> 
> And the ones with -127 127? How to deal with them.

This is where the BCR falls down. 
It doesn't handle negative numbers, but sometimes you can get around
this, but not in your case
A negative number has the bits are flipped and add 1. It therefore has
the top bit set.

127 in 8bits is  0111 1111
-127 in 8bits is 1000 0001    (add these numbers together and you get
 1 0000 0000 - as far as the 8bits are concerned this is 0) 
127 in 16bits is  0000 0000 0111 1111
-127 in 16bits is 1111 1111 1000 0001

As you can see, we can trick the BCR by selecting high minmax values
as long as the values needed are less than 13 bits long, but your
values are written as 16 bits (even though the numbers are only 127
away from 0) and the BCR can't handle this.

My Morpheus is 14 bit but I'm still stuffed.

You can use 2 controls one for the positive and one for the negative.
The negative control would have the val12.13 and the val7.11 replaced
with $0F and you would set minmax $181 $1FF (both less than the 14bit
number the BCR can handle)
The range would then appear (for val0.3 and val4.7) to be $81 to $FF 
or -127 to -1. 
Weird isn't it? Very counter intuitive and hard on the head.


> Here is the link to the new manual.
> http://www.soundprogramming.net/manuals/Ensoniq_VFX_Manual.pdf
> Now, a question came up with me yesterday, about the page #
> Since this is hex, and I don't know hex so well...
> on the lfo rate the page is 18 which would be 1 then 2 in the next ?

> I got the page numbers directly from the vfx, by tweaking the control,
> then editing the previous .tx you gave me.  Reverse engineer I
> suppose. I will come back and post the script as it currently stands,
> but have to boot up a different computer, will repost in a min.
> > Note: if you try to get this preset back from the BCR the incval stuff
> > won't be there.
> 
> 
> Does that mean I will have to reload it everytime I want to use it?
> Meaning resend it to the bcr from your editor?

No, it just means you should get it from your hard disk if you want to
change the preset. Don't get it from the BCR to edit it.
You can save the preset in the BCR and it remembers it correctly, it
just doesn't send it back to the PC correctly.

> Or how to save it as a preset?  

You can save it with the editor (Save & Get then single left click to
the position you want to save it, then press 'Store') or on the BCR
just press 'store', use the < and > to select the preset to store it
to and then press 'store' again. It will over write what ever was there.

> If I save as preset will the incval be gone when I reload the preset?

No

All the best

Royce