Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

I would like to be able to send CC's with the preset select buttons at 
the same time as changing preset. BCMan only offers one or the other 
function at a time. Is there any way to hack this to do what I want ?

Hi
> I would like to be able to send CC's with the preset select buttons at 
> the same time as changing preset. BCMan only offers one or the other 
> function at a time. Is there any way to hack this to do what I want ?

You can transmit any Midi messages that has a total length of less
than 125 bytes

In BC Manager edit the Preset and click on Parameters tab, Select
'Request'
Click on the LEARN output tab, add a new message and type in a name
and the Midi message eg 
"Chan 1 vol (100)" $B0 07 100
"Chan 4 vol (110)" $B3 07 110 
to set the volume of channel 1 an 4 to 100 and 110 respectively when
you change to that preset.


Hope this helps

Royce

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> > I would like to be able to send CC's with the preset select 
buttons at 
> > the same time as changing preset. BCMan only offers one or the 
other 
> > function at a time. Is there any way to hack this to do what I 
want ?
> 
> You can transmit any Midi messages that has a total length of less
> than 125 bytes
> 
> In BC Manager edit the Preset and click on Parameters tab, Select
> 'Request'
> Click on the LEARN output tab, add a new message and type in a name
> and the Midi message eg 
> "Chan 1 vol (100)" $B0 07 100
> "Chan 4 vol (110)" $B3 07 110 
> to set the volume of channel 1 an 4 to 100 and 110 respectively when
> you change to that preset.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Royce
>

Hmmm...typing in midi messages..!?

Say for example I want to send CC param 126 with a value of 30 on 
channel 16, what would I type in? Is there a reference I can look at 
that might help me better understand?

Royce,

Thanks for your help with custom messages in BCman.Changing presets 
in Plogue Bidule when changing presets on my BCR is working perfect 
and now the preset numbers follow on device for easy reference.
Now I have perfect visual on device feedback across all 16 channels 
of mappings from my host (technique soon to be shared)

Thanks again...



--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> 
> > > In BC Manager edit the Preset and click on Parameters tab, 
Select
> > > 'Request'
> > > Click on the LEARN output tab, add a new message and type in a 
name
> > > and the Midi message eg
> > > "Chan 1 vol (100)" $B0 07 100
> > > "Chan 4 vol (110)" $B3 07 110
> > > to set the volume of channel 1 an 4 to 100 and 110 respectively 
when
> > > you change to that preset.
> 
> > Hmmm...typing in midi messages..!?
> >
> > Say for example I want to send CC param 126 with a value of 30 on
> > channel 16, what would I type in? Is there a reference I can look 
at
> > that might help me better understand?
> 
> Here is a good link that  shows the various Midi messages
> http://www.somascape.org/midi/tech/spec.html
> <http://www.somascape.org/midi/tech/spec.html>
> 
> Sorry my 'Learn' explanation is probably a bit confusing
> The BC data is divided in Global, Preset and Controls
> Global are settings that effect the unit no matter what preset is
> selected
> Preset are settings are ones that are not attached to a control
> Control s are the Buttons, Encoders and Faders
> 
> Do you know how to edit 'Preset' data in BC Manager?
> Assuming you do (one way is to double click anywhere in the line 
of  the
> preset you are interested in)
> 
> The Dialog that pops up has an Info, Parameters and LEARN Output 
tabs
> Parameters tab - click checkbox  Request (ie LEARN output) to 
enable it.
> LEARN Output - Click '+' icon to add a message
> Another dialog pops up - you can fill in the name if you want - 
it's not
> data that is sent to the BC
> Click the icon 'T' to write a line of Midi numbers
> Type $BF 126 30 and  press OK twice - You're done
> 
> The CC message has the following form  $Bx  Type Value
> Where x is $0 to $F (0 to 15)  Channel 1 is the number 0 so Channel 
16
> is the number 15
> Type and value are less than 127
> 
> $ means the number following is in hexadecimal (hex).
> It is easier to work in hex for the first byte of a Midi message 
(called

> the Status byte) because a lot of the time the Status byte has the
> channel number.
> 
> $92    Note on channel 3
> $B7    CC channel 8
> $C10  Patch change channel 11
> etc
> 
> You can mix Hex and decimal in Mark's editor.
> 
> I hope this is clearer.
> If not post again.
> 
> Royce
>

Sorry to flood the messageboard...
I am hoping to be able to switch presets on one of my Behringers 
romotely when I switch presets on the other in order to have them 
operate like a single device. Is this possible? Can the BC's respond 
to a remote preset change command?

Thanks!


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "islandgroove2002" 
<islandgroove2002@...> wrote:
>
> Royce,
> 
> Thanks for your help with custom messages in BCman.Changing presets 
> in Plogue Bidule when changing presets on my BCR is working perfect 
> and now the preset numbers follow on device for easy reference.
> Now I have perfect visual on device feedback across all 16 channels 
> of mappings from my host (technique soon to be shared)
> 
> Thanks again...
> 
> 
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> > 
> > > > In BC Manager edit the Preset and click on Parameters tab, 
> Select
> > > > 'Request'
> > > > Click on the LEARN output tab, add a new message and type in 
a 
> name
> > > > and the Midi message eg
> > > > "Chan 1 vol (100)" $B0 07 100
> > > > "Chan 4 vol (110)" $B3 07 110
> > > > to set the volume of channel 1 an 4 to 100 and 110 
respectively 
> when
> > > > you change to that preset.
> > 
> > > Hmmm...typing in midi messages..!?
> > >
> > > Say for example I want to send CC param 126 with a value of 30 
on
> > > channel 16, what would I type in? Is there a reference I can 
look 
> at
> > > that might help me better understand?
> > 
> > Here is a good link that  shows the various Midi messages
> > http://www.somascape.org/midi/tech/spec.html
> > <http://www.somascape.org/midi/tech/spec.html>
> > 
> > Sorry my 'Learn' explanation is probably a bit confusing
> > The BC data is divided in Global, Preset and Controls
> > Global are settings that effect the unit no matter what preset is
> > selected
> > Preset are settings are ones that are not attached to a control
> > Control s are the Buttons, Encoders and Faders
> > 
> > Do you know how to edit 'Preset' data in BC Manager?
> > Assuming you do (one way is to double click anywhere in the line 
> of  the
> > preset you are interested in)
> > 
> > The Dialog that pops up has an Info, Parameters and LEARN Output 
> tabs
> > Parameters tab - click checkbox  Request (ie LEARN output) to 
> enable it.
> > LEARN Output - Click '+' icon to add a message
> > Another dialog pops up - you can fill in the name if you want - 
> it's not
> > data that is sent to the BC
> > Click the icon 'T' to write a line of Midi numbers
> > Type $BF 126 30 and  press OK twice - You're done
> > 
> > The CC message has the following form  $Bx  Type Value
> > Where x is $0 to $F (0 to 15)  Channel 1 is the number 0 so 
Channel 

> 16
> > is the number 15
> > Type and value are less than 127
> > 
> > $ means the number following is in hexadecimal (hex).
> > It is easier to work in hex for the first byte of a Midi message 
> (called
> > the Status byte) because a lot of the time the Status byte has the
> > channel number.
> > 
> > $92    Note on channel 3
> > $B7    CC channel 8
> > $C10  Patch change channel 11
> > etc
> > 
> > You can mix Hex and decimal in Mark's editor.
> > 
> > I hope this is clearer.
> > If not post again.
> > 
> > Royce
> >
>

Hi
> Sorry to flood the messageboard...
Not a problem

> I am hoping to be able to switch presets on one of my Behringers 
> romotely when I switch presets on the other in order to have them 
> operate like a single device. Is this possible? Can the BC's respond 
> to a remote preset change command?

This is a Master and slave relationship. 
You will change the preset only on the Master or you will be out of sync.
You will need to setup the Presets on the Master and the Global
channel on the slave.

(on the Master)
You need to add an extra line in the Preset LEARN message in the
Master BC (as you did before) - Preset change which is Midi message
$C0 + channel

eg for preset 10 and using channel 15 as the channel only being being
used to sync the BCs.
$CE 9

Don't forget Channel starts at 0 and Presets start at 0 so Preset 10
is sent as 9

You will need to add the Midi Preset message to the LEARN message for
each of the 32 BC presets to keep in sync.  A bit tedious I'm afraid,
but it does allow for great flexibility in what you can select. 

(on the slave)
You will need to set the global Midi Receive Channel on the slave BC .

BC Manager - "B-Controls Dialog" The menu button that looks like a
globe for the Global settings - Receive Channel - would be set to 15,
in this example, on the slave unit.

Royce

Once again thanks for all the help...!

I have yet another question.Is it possible to have the BCR's not snap 
to the last adjusted settings on preset change? I am wanting the BCR 
to only respond to feedback triggered from my computer when changing 
presets and I am finding that sometimes the BCR's stored values are 
superceding.
I have a funny feeling the answer to this one is no..


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> > Sorry to flood the messageboard...
> Not a problem
> 
> > I am hoping to be able to switch presets on one of my Behringers 
> > romotely when I switch presets on the other in order to have them 
> > operate like a single device. Is this possible? Can the BC's 
respond 
> > to a remote preset change command?
> 
> This is a Master and slave relationship. 
> You will change the preset only on the Master or you will be out of 
sync.
> You will need to setup the Presets on the Master and the Global
> channel on the slave.
> 
> (on the Master)
> You need to add an extra line in the Preset LEARN message in the
> Master BC (as you did before) - Preset change which is Midi message
> $C0 + channel
> 
> eg for preset 10 and using channel 15 as the channel only being 
being
> used to sync the BCs.
> $CE 9
> 
> Don't forget Channel starts at 0 and Presets start at 0 so Preset 10
> is sent as 9
> 
> You will need to add the Midi Preset message to the LEARN message 
for
> each of the 32 BC presets to keep in sync.  A bit tedious I'm 
afraid,
> but it does allow for great flexibility in what you can select. 
> 
> (on the slave)
> You will need to set the global Midi Receive Channel on the slave 
BC .
> 
> BC Manager - "B-Controls Dialog" The menu button that looks like a
> globe for the Global settings - Receive Channel - would be set to 
15,

> in this example, on the slave unit.
> 
> Royce
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
> BC Manager - "B-Controls Dialog" The menu button that looks like a
> globe for the Global settings

Ha ha! I'm kind of relieved that you recognized it as a globe -
although that may say more about your perspicacity than my artistic
abilities: I've never been much of a graphical artist anyway, and was
particularly unhappy about this particular button. But then again, I
DID specifically include Australia in your honor... So maybe the icon
wasn't as bad as I thought...

Mark.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "islandgroove2002"
<islandgroove2002@...> wrote:
> I have yet another question.Is it possible to have the BCR's not snap 
> to the last adjusted settings on preset change? I am wanting the BCR 
> to only respond to feedback triggered from my computer when changing 
> presets and I am finding that sometimes the BCR's stored values are 
> superceding.
> I have a funny feeling the answer to this one is no..

I don't understand completely what exactly it is that you want - maybe
you could describe this in more detail.

In any case: to understand how the BCR behaves concerning temporary
and memory preset data, you might look at the "BC MIDI
Implementation.pdf" document in the Yahoo group's file section (under
"Documentation"): in particular see sections 12.4 ("Current value")
and 17.3 ("Preset selection"), and perhaps 12.3 ("Default value") as well.

Mark.

Hi Mark
> > BC Manager - "B-Controls Dialog" The menu button that looks like a
> > globe for the Global settings
>
> Ha ha! I'm kind of relieved that you recognized it as a globe -
> although that may say more about your perspicacity than my artistic
> abilities: I've never been much of a graphical artist anyway, and was
> particularly unhappy about this particular button. But then again, I
> DID specifically include Australia in your honor... So maybe the icon
> wasn't as bad as I thought...

I feel truly honored that Australia is featured Thank you from all of us
hanging on upside down here in Oz.

Icons and particularly button types are always trouble. Hard to draw
something that immediately tells you what the bonnon does. You did well.

Royce

I guess ideally my BCR/F presets would contain no initial or default 
values, nor would they store or recall any changed values for the 
previously accessed presets since powering on.
In other words, to have completely dumb presets that only contained 
controller assignments and whatever current values were sent from my 
computer.
I did have a look at the MIDI Implementation PDF and it would seem as 
though this might be possible but I'm not really sure I can wrap my 
head around just how it would be done. Any assistance would as always 
be appreciated.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@...> 
wrote:
> 
> I don't understand completely what exactly it is that you want - 
maybe
> you could describe this in more detail.
> 
> In any case: to understand how the BCR behaves concerning temporary
> and memory preset data, you might look at the "BC MIDI
> Implementation.pdf" document in the Yahoo group's file section (under
> "Documentation"): in particular see sections 12.4 ("Current value")
> and 17.3 ("Preset selection"), and perhaps 12.3 ("Default value") as 
well.

> 
> Mark.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "islandgroove2002"
<islandgroove2002@...> wrote:
> I guess ideally my BCR/F presets would contain no initial or default 
> values, nor would they store or recall any changed values for the 
> previously accessed presets since powering on.
> In other words, to have completely dumb presets that only contained 
> controller assignments and whatever current values were sent from my 
> computer.

I'm still not quite sure whether I FULLY understand what you want, and
it would be pointless if I started producing lengthy ruminations about
irrelevant things, so could you give a step-by-step example showing
EXACTLY what the undesired behavior is?

Mark.

Hi Mark,

first of all when a BC first starts up it has initial values that all 
snap to the position they were saved as part of the preset. I am 
wondering if it is possible to set each preset so that it has no 
initial value when the preset is first initialized so that for 
example the faders on the BCF would not jump to a position when the 
device was turned on.

Second, and this is the one that is causing me the most grief, when a 
knob, button or fader is adjusted and then you switch to another 
preset, the values that were last changed in the previous preset are 
saved so that when the preset is selected again the values jump to 
how they were last set.

The problem with that for me is that I may select a conflicting 
snapshot of values to be transmit while using a different preset and 
then when I go back to the preset, it snaps to the last adjusted 
values milliseconds before I send it a burst of entirely different 
values from my computer so sometimes there is a conflict between the 
values stored at preset change and the values sent from the computer.
This is really hard to explain clearly, but the point is that I do 
not want the BC's to remember anything beyond the CC assignments 
stored in each preset so that when I move a bunch of faders and knobs 
in one preset switch to another preset, move a bunch of faders and 
knobs again and then move back to the previous preset the BC doesn't 
recall my previous adjustments so that there will be no conflict with 
the CC values that are instantly sent from the computer to the BC 
each time I change a preset.

To sum it up, software I am running on my computer is already doing 
the job of remembering what was changed in the last preset so I don't 
need the BC's doing that also.
The reason I am doing this is because I have assembled a "feedback 
battery" within Plogue Bidule with a plugin called midiCCreset that 
continuously updates the visual feedback on the BC's across multiple 
presets/midi channels, even when I trigger entire banks of value 
changes across multiple midi channels worth of mappings within my 
host. 

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Mark van den Berg" <markwinvdb@...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "islandgroove2002"
> <islandgroove2002@> wrote:
> > I guess ideally my BCR/F presets would contain no initial or 
default 
> > values, nor would they store or recall any changed values for the 
> > previously accessed presets since powering on.
> > In other words, to have completely dumb presets that only 
contained 
> > controller assignments and whatever current values were sent from 
my 
> > computer.
> 
> I'm still not quite sure whether I FULLY understand what you want, 
and
> it would be pointless if I started producing lengthy ruminations 
about

> irrelevant things, so could you give a step-by-step example showing
> EXACTLY what the undesired behavior is?
> 
> Mark.
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "islandgroove2002"
<islandgroove2002@...> wrote:
> first of all when a BC first starts up it has initial values that all 
> snap to the position they were saved as part of the preset. I am 
> wondering if it is possible to set each preset so that it has no 
> initial value when the preset is first initialized so that for 
> example the faders on the BCF would not jump to a position when the 
> device was turned on.

> Second, and this is the one that is causing me the most grief, when a 
> knob, button or fader is adjusted and then you switch to another 
> preset, the values that were last changed in the previous preset are 
> saved so that when the preset is selected again the values jump to 
> how they were last set.

I can't think of any structural way of preventing the BC's behavior in
both these situations: as long as it remains switched on, the BC
maintains the current values for all 32 memory presets: whenever a
preset gets selected, the controls are updated to these current
values. So in effect the 32 presets work like one "super-preset": the
user can switch between presets without ever losing the current values
of the individual presets. (As far as I know, it doesn't matter in
this respect whether you use "standard output" (.easypar) or "custom
output" (.tx/.minmax) definitions.)

One thing you CAN do on the BCF is prevent a FADER from physically
moving to its current ("old") value upon preset selection: in BC
Manager, go to the "General" tab in the fader dialog box and set
"Sync" to "Move" (or possibly "Pickup"). However, note that
"internally" the fader still gets set to the "old" value (so e.g. a
subsequent snapshot sent from the BCF will contain this old value,
irrespective of the "Sync" setting). See the "Motor" and "Override"
sections in "BC MIDI Implementation.pdf" for further details.

A further idea concerning your "power-on problem": you can select
which preset becomes active on power-on: in BC Manager, go to the
"Parameters" tab in the "Global setup" dialog box and set "Startup
preset". So if you make "Startup preset" point to an empty preset
(i.e. one containing no element definitions), you can at least be
certain that the faders never jump when you switch the BCF on.
Obviously you would then have to select a "functional" preset manually
AFTER power-on, but in your case that might indeed be more convenient.

> The problem with that for me is that I may select a conflicting 
> snapshot of values to be transmit while using a different preset and 
> then when I go back to the preset, it snaps to the last adjusted 
> values milliseconds before I send it a burst of entirely different 
> values from my computer so sometimes there is a conflict between the 
> values stored at preset change and the values sent from the computer.

Can you somehow build in a delay between preset selection as such and
sending your subsequent "burst of values from the computer"? Of course
this won't prevent the irritating fader movement etc., but at least
the BCF/R would have enough time to complete its updates before it is
confronted with any data from the computer.

Apart from that, the only solution I can think of would be to always
send a complete preset definition to the BC at the moment when you
currently send your "burst of values" from your computer. However,
leaving aside the question whether you could make your software do
that, BC preset definitions (in "BCL") are extremely lengthy, so I
guess that would be very impractical anyway.

Mark.