Bc2000 (for the BCF2000 & BCR2000)

Hello,
I recently got a BCR2000 and I'm trying to set it up for use in Adobe 
Audition.  I've been in touch with a couple people in the BC2000 group 
regarding programming it to work as a Mackie Control unit equivalent.  
I know there is already a compatible preset available for download in 
the files section, but the volume controls are very rough, as they have 
been in my own testing as well.  From what I gather, AA needs a 
pitchbend value between -8192 and 8192 (in 256 steps) to adjust volume 
properly.  Is there any way to alter the sysex data to reflect these 
parameters for the BCR encoders?  I hope I'm being clear enough here.

Thanks!

Jordache.jpeg:

I'm somewhat surprised that you describe normal MIDI volume controls 
as "rough." Of course, their steps are not infinite; and granted, the 
MCU does implement volume control with pitch bend data (*maybe* for 
that reason; I always felt that they did this and a few other 
comparable weirdnesses primarily to make the MCU difficult to 
emulate!)

Nonetheless, volume control is implemented on nearly all control 
surfaces, keyboards, etc., within the "normal" 0-127 controller 
range. And this is the way MCU emulators basically handle it as well 
(including mine) - working with the high byte of pitch bend only 
(i.e., "course settings"). So I'm curious: what application do you 
have that requires more that 128 levels of amplitude - assuming you 
are using that full range?

Incidentally, I find Royce's solution to your problem really 
ingenious. I also note that the solution is only possible with 
endless encoders. Such an implementation has its own problems: 
neither 0 nor max are fixed points on an encoder, so there is no 
*tactile* way of determining them (though with the BCF/BCR the 
red "dots" help).

Art Hunkins

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "jordache.jpeg" <jdutcher@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I recently got a BCR2000 and I'm trying to set it up for use in 
Adobe
> > Audition.  I've been in touch with a couple people in the BC2000 
group
> > regarding programming it to work as a Mackie Control unit 
equivalent.
> > I know there is already a compatible preset available for 
download in
> > the files section, but the volume controls are very rough, as they
> have
> > been in my own testing as well.  From what I gather, AA needs a
> > pitchbend value between -8192 and 8192 (in 256 steps) to adjust 
volume
> 
> 
> 
> You would first think
> .easypar PB <channel> <value> #pitch bend
> 
> but...
> "Note: the general MIDI Pitch Bend format is $Ec ValueLSB ValueMSB, 
so
> the fact that the BC always
> sends $00 for ValueLSB means that it doesn't support 14-bit values:
> this is a bit strange, since the BC
> does support 14-bit values for several other message types." Mark 
van
> den Berg
> 
> That is easypar will only give you pitch bend coarse settings
> You need to use .tx to be able to get to the 14bit number
> The range -8192 to 8192 is a bit tricky as the BC units don't work 
with
> negative numbers
> I'm not sure AA would really use signed integers.
> 
> The range of Pitch bend is usually defined as 0 to 16383 with the 
center
> (no pich shift) = $2000 or 8192
> The MIDI message is
> $E0 fine_data coarse_data
> 
> Perhaps this might work for encoder 49 (bottom left) on MIDI 
channel 1
> (Sorry, you can't program this from the front panel of the BCR. 
You'll
> need to use my editor )
> 
> .encoder 49
> .showvalue on
> .mode 1dot
> .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000
> .minmax 0 16383
> .default 0
> .tx $E0 val0.6 val7.13
> 
> You can fiddle with the .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000  to adjust 
the
> 'feel'
> The first number is "what is the value increased by if I move the
> encoder 1 turn very slowly"
> The 16000 means you should go through the range in one quick turn
> As you can see there are four rotation speeds
> You might like to use MidiOx to see what is happening
> http://www.midiox.com/ <http://www.midiox.com/>
> 
> Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on.
> 
> Royce
> 
> > properly.  Is there any way to alter the sysex data to reflect 
these
> > parameters for the BCR encoders?  I hope I'm being clear enough 
here.

> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>

256 steps? For volume? What for? Never seen that in my life..

 

 

> > Hello,
> > I recently got a BCR2000 and I'm trying to set it up for use in 
Adobe
> > Audition. I've been in touch with a couple people in the BC2000 
group
> > regarding programming it to work as a Mackie Control unit 
equivalent.
> > I know there is already a compatible preset available for 
download in
> > the files section, but the volume controls are very rough, as they
> have
> > been in my own testing as well. From what I gather, AA needs a
> > pitchbend value between -8192 and 8192 (in 256 steps) to adjust 
volume
> 
> 
> 
> You would first think
> .easypar PB <channel> <value> #pitch bend
> 
> but...
> "Note: the general MIDI Pitch Bend format is $Ec ValueLSB ValueMSB, 
so
> the fact that the BC always
> sends $00 for ValueLSB means that it doesn't support 14-bit values:
> this is a bit strange, since the BC
> does support 14-bit values for several other message types." Mark 
van
> den Berg
> 
> That is easypar will only give you pitch bend coarse settings
> You need to use .tx to be able to get to the 14bit number
> The range -8192 to 8192 is a bit tricky as the BC units don't work 
with
> negative numbers
> I'm not sure AA would really use signed integers.
> 
> The range of Pitch bend is usually defined as 0 to 16383 with the 
center
> (no pich shift) = $2000 or 8192
> The MIDI message is
> $E0 fine_data coarse_data
> 
> Perhaps this might work for encoder 49 (bottom left) on MIDI 
channel 1
> (Sorry, you can't program this from the front panel of the BCR. 
You'll
> need to use my editor )
> 
> .encoder 49
> .showvalue on
> .mode 1dot
> .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000
> .minmax 0 16383
> .default 0
> .tx $E0 val0.6 val7.13
> 
> You can fiddle with the .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000 to adjust 
the
> 'feel'
> The first number is "what is the value increased by if I move the
> encoder 1 turn very slowly"
> The 16000 means you should go through the range in one quick turn
> As you can see there are four rotation speeds
> You might like to use MidiOx to see what is happening
> http://www.midiox. <http://www.midiox.com/> com/ <http://www.midiox.
<http://www.midiox.com/> com/>
> 
> Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on.
> 
> Royce
> 
> > properly. Is there any way to alter the sysex data to reflect 
these
> > parameters for the BCR encoders? I hope I'm being clear enough 
here.

> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>

hi royce,
thanks very much for the quick and detailed response.  will try what 
you've suggested this weekend.

a quick note to everyone involved: i'm completely new at this, so 
bear with me.

in response to abhunkin:
>I'm somewhat surprised that you describe normal MIDI volume controls
>as "rough." Of course, their steps are not infinite; and granted, the
>MCU does implement volume control with pitch bend data 

well, what i mean by "rough" is that I'm only able to adjust volume 
for any given track between -156dB and 14dB in variable increments 
of .4-.6dB (despite having the control preferences set at .1dB 
increments in audition).  obviously, i'd like to have full -INFdB-
15dB control, with increments of .1dB.  I'm assuming that the default 
pitchbend commands have something to do with what i'm experiencing.  
according to the BC midi signals spreadsheet that i received from 
alan, the MCU emulation sends pitchbend values between -8192 and 8192 
(in 256 steps) to adjust volume.  i've also checked that info against 
similar info that i found here:
http://members.aol.com/mhigrules/MCMap.htm

OK, so i hope that clears things up a bit.  as i said before, i'm new 
to this, so i'm not entirely sure of exactly what i need or if it's 
even necessary, i simply want to be able to control volume in AA as i 
mentioned above (i.e. the exact same amount of control that i get 
with a mouse).

thanks again,
james

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "jordache.jpeg" <jdutcher@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I recently got a BCR2000 and I'm trying to set it up for use in 
Adobe
> > Audition.  I've been in touch with a couple people in the BC2000 
group
> > regarding programming it to work as a Mackie Control unit 
equivalent.
> > I know there is already a compatible preset available for 
download in
> > the files section, but the volume controls are very rough, as they
> have
> > been in my own testing as well.  From what I gather, AA needs a
> > pitchbend value between -8192 and 8192 (in 256 steps) to adjust 
volume
> 
> 
> 
> You would first think
> .easypar PB <channel> <value> #pitch bend
> 
> but...
> "Note: the general MIDI Pitch Bend format is $Ec ValueLSB ValueMSB, 
so
> the fact that the BC always
> sends $00 for ValueLSB means that it doesn't support 14-bit values:
> this is a bit strange, since the BC
> does support 14-bit values for several other message types." Mark 
van
> den Berg
> 
> That is easypar will only give you pitch bend coarse settings
> You need to use .tx to be able to get to the 14bit number
> The range -8192 to 8192 is a bit tricky as the BC units don't work 
with
> negative numbers
> I'm not sure AA would really use signed integers.
> 
> The range of Pitch bend is usually defined as 0 to 16383 with the 
center
> (no pich shift) = $2000 or 8192
> The MIDI message is
> $E0 fine_data coarse_data
> 
> Perhaps this might work for encoder 49 (bottom left) on MIDI 
channel 1
> (Sorry, you can't program this from the front panel of the BCR. 
You'll
> need to use my editor )
> 
> .encoder 49
> .showvalue on
> .mode 1dot
> .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000
> .minmax 0 16383
> .default 0
> .tx $E0 val0.6 val7.13
> 
> You can fiddle with the .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000  to adjust 
the
> 'feel'
> The first number is "what is the value increased by if I move the
> encoder 1 turn very slowly"
> The 16000 means you should go through the range in one quick turn
> As you can see there are four rotation speeds
> You might like to use MidiOx to see what is happening
> http://www.midiox.com/ <http://www.midiox.com/>
> 
> Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on.
> 
> Royce
> 
> > properly.  Is there any way to alter the sysex data to reflect 
these
> > parameters for the BCR encoders?  I hope I'm being clear enough 
here.

> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>

ok, so i just gave your code a shot, royce. again, thanks so much
for your help. your suggestion is in fact exactly what i was looking
for. that's just what i wanted to do, i simply didn't have the
coding know-how. however, now that i've actually tried it, i'm
realizing that my plan was a bit flawed. unfortunately, in order to
get anywhere near the amount of precision that i was hoping for, i
need to turn the encoder like 10 times around to go through the
entire range. if i set it to operate throughout a single turn, the
changes in volume are much greater than .1dB in audition. i think if
there were actually 256 steps in the encoders, it would be
perfect. unfortunately, i'm guessing there are many fewer steps than 
that, meaning that the encoder needs to be turned a number of times. 
i hope i'm making sense here...i'm not articulating it well.

in short, i'm not really much better off than if i simply use the
easypar PB command. i'm thinking that what i want to do simply isn't
possible...at least not with the native resolution (i.e. number of
steps) on these encoders (or any encoders, for that matter)... i
guess that's why they offer faders instead.  is that right?


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "jordache.jpeg" <jdutcher@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I recently got a BCR2000 and I'm trying to set it up for use in 
Adobe
> > Audition.  I've been in touch with a couple people in the BC2000 
group
> > regarding programming it to work as a Mackie Control unit 
equivalent.
> > I know there is already a compatible preset available for 
download in
> > the files section, but the volume controls are very rough, as they
> have
> > been in my own testing as well.  From what I gather, AA needs a
> > pitchbend value between -8192 and 8192 (in 256 steps) to adjust 
volume
> 
> 
> 
> You would first think
> .easypar PB <channel> <value> #pitch bend
> 
> but...
> "Note: the general MIDI Pitch Bend format is $Ec ValueLSB ValueMSB, 
so
> the fact that the BC always
> sends $00 for ValueLSB means that it doesn't support 14-bit values:
> this is a bit strange, since the BC
> does support 14-bit values for several other message types." Mark 
van
> den Berg
> 
> That is easypar will only give you pitch bend coarse settings
> You need to use .tx to be able to get to the 14bit number
> The range -8192 to 8192 is a bit tricky as the BC units don't work 
with
> negative numbers
> I'm not sure AA would really use signed integers.
> 
> The range of Pitch bend is usually defined as 0 to 16383 with the 
center
> (no pich shift) = $2000 or 8192
> The MIDI message is
> $E0 fine_data coarse_data
> 
> Perhaps this might work for encoder 49 (bottom left) on MIDI 
channel 1
> (Sorry, you can't program this from the front panel of the BCR. 
You'll
> need to use my editor )
> 
> .encoder 49
> .showvalue on
> .mode 1dot
> .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000
> .minmax 0 16383
> .default 0
> .tx $E0 val0.6 val7.13
> 
> You can fiddle with the .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000  to adjust 
the
> 'feel'
> The first number is "what is the value increased by if I move the
> encoder 1 turn very slowly"
> The 16000 means you should go through the range in one quick turn
> As you can see there are four rotation speeds
> You might like to use MidiOx to see what is happening
> http://www.midiox.com/ <http://www.midiox.com/>
> 
> Hope this helps. Let me know how you get on.
> 
> Royce
> 
> > properly.  Is there any way to alter the sysex data to reflect 
these
> > parameters for the BCR encoders?  I hope I'm being clear enough 
here.

> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>

Royce,

I finally got around to testing for fader resolution on the BCF.

I'm not quite sure how to answer, but - using your script - the 
output does cover the complete pitch bend range, 0 0 to 127 127 (all 
dec here).

Every point on the fader registers an identical value, whether you go 
fast to get there or not. Of course, if you go slower, more 
intermediate values are registered (as seen in MIDIOx). Going as 
slowly as possible, there is a low byte change of about 40-50 (dec); 
so certainly far more than simple high-byte values (128 of them) can 
be used, if desired.

Incidentally, I was frustrated at first - only to recall finally that 
I was using an old version (BCR only) of your editor. Of course, it 
wouldn't save a BCF script as text (or perhaps it was only failing to 
reload it - though the script couldn't be found I think), nor save 
sysex, nor transmit to my BCF. Thank goodness your more recent 
version does all these things.

Take care -

Art Hunkins 


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Art
> 
> >I also note that the solution is only possible with
> > endless encoders. Such an implementation has its own problems:
> > neither 0 nor max are fixed points on an encoder, so there is no
> > *tactile* way of determining them (though with the BCF/BCR the
> > red "dots" help).
> 
> You are right about no tactile feed back for 0 volume, but the
> resolution should enable you to flick back to 0 volume on the 
encoder
> and further turning of the encoder will just output more 0 values.
> Not ideal, granted, but it worked quite well for me when zipping 
though
> the vast numbers of patches in the FantomX synth.
> 
> (NOTE: there was an error in my original post  it should be 
$encoder 49
> instead of .encoder 49, sorry)
> 
> As you know, I don't have a BCF. Does the .resolution command have 
any

> effect on the fader?
> 
> $fader 1
> .showvalue on
> .resolution 2000 4000 8000 16000
> .minmax 0 16383
> .default 0
> .tx $E0 val0.6 val7.13
> 
> 
> Will this enable a finer resolution if the fader is moved slowly?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Royce
>

Hi Art
> 
> I'm not quite sure how to answer, but - using your script - the 
> output does cover the complete pitch bend range, 0 0 to 127 127 (all 
> dec here).
> 
> Every point on the fader registers an identical value, whether you go 
> fast to get there or not. Of course, if you go slower, more 
> intermediate values are registered (as seen in MIDIOx). Going as 
> slowly as possible, there is a low byte change of about 40-50 (dec); 
> so certainly far more than simple high-byte values (128 of them) can 
> be used, if desired.
> 
So it looks like the faders have a resolution of 127 * 3 about 380.
Thanks makes sense. I guess there would be no need to use the
resolution command and just rely on the sampling rate of the fader

Thanks 

Royce

I agree.

Art Hunkins

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Art
> > 
> > I'm not quite sure how to answer, but - using your script - the 
> > output does cover the complete pitch bend range, 0 0 to 127 127 
(all 
> > dec here).
> > 
> > Every point on the fader registers an identical value, whether 
you go 
> > fast to get there or not. Of course, if you go slower, more 
> > intermediate values are registered (as seen in MIDIOx). Going as 
> > slowly as possible, there is a low byte change of about 40-50 
(dec); 
> > so certainly far more than simple high-byte values (128 of them) 
can 

> > be used, if desired.
> > 
> So it looks like the faders have a resolution of 127 * 3 about 380.
> Thanks makes sense. I guess there would be no need to use the
> resolution command and just rely on the sampling rate of the fader
> 
> Thanks 
> 
> Royce
>

Just got back into town and I was sitting down to finally try Royce's 
resolution tweaks when I read this...  Shall I not bother with the 
resolution tweaking?  I'm afraid I'm a little lost regarding what you 
two have seemed to figure out here.

Thanks


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "abhunkin" <abhunkin@...> wrote:
>
> I agree.
> 
> Art Hunkins
> 
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Art
> > > 
> > > I'm not quite sure how to answer, but - using your script - the 
> > > output does cover the complete pitch bend range, 0 0 to 127 127 
> (all 
> > > dec here).
> > > 
> > > Every point on the fader registers an identical value, whether 
> you go 
> > > fast to get there or not. Of course, if you go slower, more 
> > > intermediate values are registered (as seen in MIDIOx). Going 
as 
> > > slowly as possible, there is a low byte change of about 40-50 
> (dec); 
> > > so certainly far more than simple high-byte values (128 of 
them) 
> can 
> > > be used, if desired.
> > > 
> > So it looks like the faders have a resolution of 127 * 3 about 
380.

> > Thanks makes sense. I guess there would be no need to use the
> > resolution command and just rely on the sampling rate of the fader
> > 
> > Thanks 
> > 
> > Royce
> >
>

Royce, you are a genius!!  This works perfectly.  It is exactly what 
I wanted.  Thank you!

It's VERY precise and feels great!

Wow, well I'll finish programming the rest of the controls now.  If 
anyone is using the BCR with Audition, I strongly recommend using 
Royce's brilliant code.

Thanks Royce!


--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "rpcfender" <rpcfender@...> wrote:
>
> --- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "jordache.jpeg" <jdutcher@> wrote:
> >
> > Just got back into town and I was sitting down to finally try 
Royce's
> > resolution tweaks when I read this...  Shall I not bother with the
> > resolution tweaking?  I'm afraid I'm a little lost regarding what 
you
> > two have seemed to figure out here.
> 
> Give this a try and let me know how you get on.
> 
> $encoder 49
>   .showvalue on
>   .mode 1dot
>   .resolution 4000 8000 16383 16383
>   .minmax 0 16383
>   .default 0
>   .tx $E0 val0.6 val7.13
> 
> Perhaps this may work for you.
> If not try playing around with the resolution command
> 
> Art is an expert on  emulation and, as he own a BCF and I don't, I 
was
> just asking him about the faders.
> 
> You asked about a BCR so this is what you are probably  interested 
in.

> Sorry. I shifted topic your thread
> 
> All the best
> 
> Royce
>

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "jordache.jpeg" <jdutcher@...> wrote:
>
> Royce, you are a genius!!  This works perfectly.  It is exactly what 
> I wanted.  Thank you!

A pleasure (although my wife tells me she will now have to widen all
the doors to get my head through)
> 
> It's VERY precise and feels great!

Excellent
 
> Wow, well I'll finish programming the rest of the controls now.  If 
> anyone is using the BCR with Audition, I strongly recommend using 
> Royce's brilliant code.

Put a copy of the preset in the files section when you get it all
going so all those lucky enough to own a BCF can have a shot at it.

All the best

Royce

I've been watching this thread for quite some time.  And I've decided
to give this programming a go.  It is very precise and smooth,
especially in the higher levels.  With my original programming (in the
files section here related to Audition) the encoder is not as precise
as with the BCR text edit programming.  Also, with my setup the
encoder does not like to give Audition settings higher than 0db (in
Audition).  You can set Audition's levels over 0db but you have to
tweak the encoder really fast.

The problem I am running into with Royce's settings has to do with the
bcr2000 recieving the Midi signals sent from Audition so that the BCR
knows where the levels are set.  Currently if I slide a fader with my
mouse the BCR's levels do not update.  Then if I tweak the encoder the
fader jumps to wherever the encoder is set.  So they are not
corresponding. Is there a way around this?  I've had a quick look in
the BCR Editor documentation but have not seen anything about this yet.

--- In bc2000@yahoogroups.com, "jordache.jpeg" <jdutcher@...> wrote:

>
> Royce, you are a genius!!  This works perfectly.  It is exactly what 
> I wanted.  Thank you!
> 
> It's VERY precise and feels great!
> 
> Wow, well I'll finish programming the rest of the controls now.  If 
> anyone is using the BCR with Audition, I strongly recommend using 
> Royce's brilliant code.
> 
> Thanks Royce!

> The problem I am running into with Royce's settings has to do with the
> bcr2000 recieving the Midi signals sent from Audition so that the BCR
> knows where the levels are set.  Currently if I slide a fader with my
> mouse the BCR's levels do not update.  Then if I tweak the encoder the
> fader jumps to wherever the encoder is set.  So they are not
> corresponding. Is there a way around this?  I've had a quick look in
> the BCR Editor documentation but have not seen anything about this yet.

Use midiox to check to see if Audition is putting out CC messages when
you use the mouse.
Check that the MIDI PC output to BCR is connected and the MIDI output
devices are correctly set up in Audition for the BCR.

Royce

Thanks for the reply Royce. When I use the easypar programming method the bcr recieves and sends signals as expected, and the led rings update whenever a new

Hi Christopher
> When I use the easypar programming method the bcr recieves and sends
signals
> as expected,
> and the led rings update whenever a new session is started or the
faders in
> audition are edited
> via mouse.  With the tx method the leds do not update and do not
correspond
> with audition. I

I thought I got the .tx to work at some stage, but I have tried a few
times and it looks as if I was dreaming and only easypar works.

  I have a bit more of a think, but for the moment I can't help you.

Any one else  have some thoughts?????

Royce