Disklavier

>________________________________
> From: Wallace Lyle <awl_bidness@...>
>To: "Disklavier@yahoogroups.com" <Disklavier@yahoogroups.com> 
>Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 1:34 PM
>Subject: [disklavier] Need advice for MK III upgrade to DKC-850 and Internet Piano Radio
> 
>
>
>  
>Hello,
>
>
>I have been following posts in this group for over a year, and need help figuring out a sensible path to upgrade for Internet Piano Radio.
>
>
>In 2004 I purchased (from Evola Music in Toledo, OH) a Yamaha DC2A with Disklavier MK III, control unit DKC55RCD and silent key device.  
>
>
>After several moves, I have retired and live in suburbs NW of Houston, Texas.  
>
>
>I visited the Yamaha dealer in downtown Houston to seek service, tuning, and discuss upgrading to the DKC-850.  Unfortunately, the people I spoke with were incompetent and did not even follow up with the tuning.  They are now out of business, and I am trying to locate someone reasonably local to tune/service the piano and disklavier.  
>
>
>Any recommendations for technicians in the Houston area would be appreciated.  
>
>
>From reading posts in this group, I am fairly certain I can perform the work to replace the MK III with the DKC-850.  However, before replacing anything I need to figure out how to retrieve and back up music stored on the MK III hard drive and how to salvage the dozens of floppy discs I have purchased.  I have purchased the USB floppy drive that Sam Kanter described recently, but of course the MK III does not have USB access.
>
>
>I am assuming the DKC-850 will read and process the music I have purchased on CD's.
>
>
>(1) are there cables/adapters I can use to convert from the round 8 pin "To Host" plug to USB, or is there another way to retrieve the information from the hard drive?
>(2) are there cables/adapters I can use to convert from the round 5 pin "Midi In and Midi Out" plugs to USB, or should I be looking for something else?
>(3) what software is available for facilitating recovery from the MK III and floppy drives, and moving the data to the DKC-850?
>
>
>I am sure I am not the first one to face this task, but I have not been able to locate the discussions/instructions.  If anyone can point me to previous posted information I would be happy to sort through it and try to figure it out.
>
>
>Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.
>
>
>Roger
>
>
>  
>
>
>

>There seems to be an emerging trend with respect to SSD failures… that when they fail, they fail instantly. A mechanical HD would typically start causing problems and throwing out errors, giving you some time (days or weeks) to deal with it. Not so with SSD. A simple Google of “SSD failure” will pop up a concerning list of articles.
>
>For those who aren’t sure what I’m talking about, you have nothing to worry about… your piano, if it has a HD, has a mechanical old-school one.  For those of us who’ve done an upgrade from mechanical to SSD, this is an issue.
>
>Sidenote: upgrading the HD makes your piano perform wonderfully.  Boot times are measured in seconds, not minutes.  Jumping around menus goes from annoying to instant. Far more storage space.
>
>The issue that it could die at any moment, though, throws a bit of a snag into things. It’s not so simple to back-up that entire drive. Its contents, sure… but if my SSD died now, I’d have to be reverting to the disk image I manually made before I did the upgrade. And I’d lose any new content that I hadn’t backed up, and would have to restore it.
>
>So……. suggestions? Anyone know of a good way to backup the piano’s HD without physically removing it and mounting it on an external machine?  In a perfect world, DKVBrowser would have an option to [Create HD image] and with one keystroke, you could keep a backup on a computer and simply image a new SSD when needed.  Hey Kevin, are you reading this?! :)  Is that feasible?  Is there a better way? Another way?
>
>…..HK
>
>------------------------------------
>
>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@YahooGroups.com
>
>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
>disklavier-owner@Yahoogroups.com
>
>To reach our group's web site go to:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/disklavier/info
>
>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
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>
>
>

>________________________________
> From: Wallace Lyle <awl_bidness@...>
>To: "Disklavier@yahoogroups.com" <Disklavier@yahoogroups.com> 
>Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 1:34 PM
>Subject: [disklavier] Need advice for MK III upgrade to DKC-850 and Internet Piano Radio
> 
>
>
>  
>Hello,
>
>
>I have been following posts in this group for over a year, and need help figuring out a sensible path to upgrade for Internet Piano Radio.
>
>
>In 2004 I purchased (from Evola Music in Toledo, OH) a Yamaha DC2A with Disklavier MK III, control unit DKC55RCD and silent key device.  
>
>
>After several moves, I have retired and live in suburbs NW of Houston, Texas.  
>
>
>I visited the Yamaha dealer in downtown Houston to seek service, tuning, and discuss upgrading to the DKC-850.  Unfortunately, the people I spoke with were incompetent and did not even follow up with the tuning.  They are now out of business, and I am trying to locate someone reasonably local to tune/service the piano and disklavier.  
>
>
>Any recommendations for technicians in the Houston area would be appreciated.  
>
>
>From reading posts in this group, I am fairly certain I can perform the work to replace the MK III with the DKC-850.  However, before replacing anything I need to figure out how to retrieve and back up music stored on the MK III hard drive and how to salvage the dozens of floppy discs I have purchased.  I have purchased the USB floppy drive that Sam Kanter described recently, but of course the MK III does not have USB access.
>
>
>I am assuming the DKC-850 will read and process the music I have purchased on CD's.
>
>
>(1) are there cables/adapters I can use to convert from the round 8 pin "To Host" plug to USB, or is there another way to retrieve the information from the hard drive?
>(2) are there cables/adapters I can use to convert from the round 5 pin "Midi In and Midi Out" plugs to USB, or should I be looking for something else?
>(3) what software is available for facilitating recovery from the MK III and floppy drives, and moving the data to the DKC-850?
>
>
>I am sure I am not the first one to face this task, but I have not been able to locate the discussions/instructions.  If anyone can point me to previous posted information I would be happy to sort through it and try to figure it out.
>
>
>Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.
>
>
>Roger
>
>
>  
>
>

The backup function seems to create a very proprietary set of files which I’m guessing work well within the confines of the “backup” and “restore” functions of the Mark IV. But if you lose the whole HD, you lose the file systems and the operating systems… and you’ll never get to that menu. It would be arduous but not impossible… you’d restore the whole drive from the original image, then do any upgrades that Yamaha has provided since, and then use the restore function to pull your material from the backup — and hope it works. I’ve never restored from it, but my only experiences with propriatery backup/restore systems aren’t great. Anyone who remembers MS-DOS’s Backup/Restore will certainly know of what I speak.

DKVBrowser lets you copy actual files, but only the non-protected files. A PianoSoft CD that’s been imported to the HD would have to be re-imported.

In bits and pieces, it’d be possible to rebuild from scratch, providing you’ve been dutifully making backups. It just occurs to me that the right way to do this would be a complete HD image. One snapshot and done.

…..HK

On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@aol.com> wrote:

Horatio,

Can't you use the Mark IV backup function?

Bill

Sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@...> wrote:

There seems to be an emerging trend with respect to SSD failures… that when they fail, they fail instantly. A mechanical HD would typically start causing problems and throwing out errors, giving you some time (days or weeks) to deal with it. Not so with SSD. A simple Google of “SSD failure” will pop up a concerning list of articles.

For those who aren’t sure what I’m talking about, you have nothing to worry about… your piano, if it has a HD, has a mechanical old-school one. For those of us who’ve done an upgrade from mechanical to SSD, this is an issue.

Sidenote: upgrading the HD makes your piano perform wonderfully. Boot times are measured in seconds, not minutes. Jumping around menus goes from annoying to instant. Far more storage space.

The issue that it could die at any moment, though, throws a bit of a snag into things. It’s not so simple to back-up that entire drive. Its contents, sure… but if my SSD died now, I’d have to be reverting to the disk image I manually made before I did the upgrade. And I’d lose any new content that I hadn’t backed up, and would have to restore it.

So……. suggestions? Anyone know of a good way to backup the piano’s HD without physically removing it and mounting it on an external machine? In a perfect world, DKVBrowser would have an option to [Create HD image] and with one keystroke, you could keep a backup on a computer and simply image a new SSD when needed. Hey Kevin, are you reading this?! :) Is that feasible? Is there a better way? Another way?

…..HK

------------------------------------

To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/disklavier/info

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
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\ufffd

The backup function seems to create a very proprietary set of files which I\ufffdm guessing work well within the confines of the \ufffdbackup\ufffd and \ufffdrestore\ufffd functions of the Mark IV. But if you lose the whole HD, you lose the file systems and the operating systems\ufffd and you\ufffdll never get to that menu. It would be arduous but not impossible\ufffd you\ufffdd restore the whole drive from the original image, then do any upgrades that Yamaha has provided since, and then use the restore function to pull your material from the backup \ufffd and hope it works. I\ufffdve never restored from it, but my only experiences with propriatery backup/restore systems aren\ufffdt great. \ufffdAnyone who remembers MS-DOS\ufffds Backup/Restore will certainly know of what I speak.\ufffd

DKVBrowser lets you copy actual files, but only the non-protected files. A PianoSoft CD that\ufffds been imported to the HD would have to be re-imported.

In bits and pieces, it\ufffdd be possible to rebuild from scratch, providing you\ufffdve been dutifully making backups. It just occurs to me that the right way to do this would be a complete HD image. One snapshot and done.

\ufffd..HK

On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:

Horatio,\ufffd

Can't you use the Mark IV backup function?

Bill

Sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@...> wrote:

There seems to be an emerging trend with respect to SSD failures\ufffd that when they fail, they fail instantly. A mechanical HD would typically start causing problems and throwing out errors, giving you some time (days or weeks) to deal with it. Not so with SSD. A simple Google of \ufffdSSD failure\ufffd will pop up a concerning list of articles.

For those who aren\ufffdt sure what I\ufffdm talking about, you have nothing to worry about\ufffd your piano, if it has a HD, has a mechanical old-school one. For those of us who\ufffdve done an upgrade from mechanical to SSD, this is an issue.

Sidenote: upgrading the HD makes your piano perform wonderfully. Boot times are measured in seconds, not minutes. Jumping around menus goes from annoying to instant. Far more storage space.

The issue that it could die at any moment, though, throws a bit of a snag into things. It\ufffds not so simple to back-up that entire drive. Its contents, sure\ufffd but if my SSD died now, I\ufffdd have to be reverting to the disk image I manually made before I did the upgrade. And I\ufffdd lose any new content that I hadn\ufffdt backed up, and would have to restore it.

So\ufffd\ufffd. suggestions? Anyone know of a good way to backup the piano\ufffds HD without physically removing it and mounting it on an external machine? In a perfect world, DKVBrowser would have an option to [Create HD image] and with one keystroke, you could keep a backup on a computer and simply image a new SSD when needed. Hey Kevin, are you reading this?! :) Is that feasible? Is there a better way? Another way?

\ufffd..HK

------------------------------------

To Post a message to the group, send it to:\ufffddisklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/disklavier/info

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@...\ufffdGroups Links

-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of carwizard
Sent: Thursday, 30 January 2014 2:16 PM
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [disklavier] SSD failures - Mark 1V

 

  

 

The restore feature of the Disklavier built in backup program no longer
works. Most users are not aware of this.

 

I lost my hard drive 4 months ago. I replaced the drive and then used the
built in restore function to bring back my music.to my surprise, it errored.
I called Freddie at Yamaha and informed him of the issue. He then tested and
verified on his equipment to see if this was a local problem or system wide
one. Unfortunately, he too had the problem which makes all of us in
jeopardy. He said he would submit the problem to Japan, but so far, no fix
has been made. So I ended up spending 14 hours reloading all my music and
then did a "image" backup for protection. Unfortunately, I have added music
since the image backup, which remains not backed up.

 

I am in the process of writing a letter to Yossi, and having Martain in
Yamaha service,deliver it. This is an unexceptable flaw in what otherwise is
a beautiful piano and service.

 

Neal - President

Affordable Classics, Inc


On Jan 29, 2014, at 6:40 PM, "Horatio Kemeny" <hkemeny@...> wrote:

  

The backup function seems to create a very proprietary set of files which
I'm guessing work well within the confines of the "backup" and "restore"
functions of the Mark IV. But if you lose the whole HD, you lose the file
systems and the operating systems. and you'll never get to that menu. It
would be arduous but not impossible. you'd restore the whole drive from the
original image, then do any upgrades that Yamaha has provided since, and
then use the restore function to pull your material from the backup - and
hope it works. I've never restored from it, but my only experiences with
propriatery backup/restore systems aren't great.  Anyone who remembers
MS-DOS's Backup/Restore will certainly know of what I speak. 

 

DKVBrowser lets you copy actual files, but only the non-protected files. A
PianoSoft CD that's been imported to the HD would have to be re-imported.

 

In bits and pieces, it'd be possible to rebuild from scratch, providing
you've been dutifully making backups. It just occurs to me that the right
way to do this would be a complete HD image. One snapshot and done.

 

...HK

 

On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:





Horatio, 

Can't you use the Mark IV backup function?

Bill

Sent from my iPhone.

On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Horatio Kemeny < <mailto:hkemeny@...>
hkemeny@...> wrote:

There seems to be an emerging trend with respect to SSD failures. that when
they fail, they fail instantly. A mechanical HD would typically start
causing problems and throwing out errors, giving you some time (days or
weeks) to deal with it. Not so with SSD. A simple Google of "SSD failure"
will pop up a concerning list of articles.

For those who aren't sure what I'm talking about, you have nothing to worry
about. your piano, if it has a HD, has a mechanical old-school one. For
those of us who've done an upgrade from mechanical to SSD, this is an issue.

Sidenote: upgrading the HD makes your piano perform wonderfully. Boot times
are measured in seconds, not minutes. Jumping around menus goes from
annoying to instant. Far more storage space.

The issue that it could die at any moment, though, throws a bit of a snag
into things. It's not so simple to back-up that entire drive. Its contents,
sure. but if my SSD died now, I'd have to be reverting to the disk image I
manually made before I did the upgrade. And I'd lose any new content that I
hadn't backed up, and would have to restore it.

So... suggestions? Anyone know of a good way to backup the piano's HD
without physically removing it and mounting it on an external machine? In a
perfect world, DKVBrowser would have an option to [Create HD image] and with
one keystroke, you could keep a backup on a computer and simply image a new
SSD when needed. Hey Kevin, are you reading this?! :) Is that feasible? Is
there a better way? Another way?

...HK

------------------------------------

To Post a message to the group, send it to:
<mailto:disklavier@...> disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator,
send it to:
 <mailto:disklavier-owner@...> disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
 <http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/disklavier/info>
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/disklavier/info

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail,
go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will
fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist
on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
 <mailto:disklavier-unsubscribe@...>
disklavier-unsubscribe@... Groups Links

>
>
>
>

> On Jan 30, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
> 
> externalizing the drive sound like a great idea. if it is SATA, that should be real easy since the cables are more flexible. with ATA it might require some ingenuity. you can can get a ribbon cable to make twists and bends by separating the individual wires into clumps of 10 or so. if the cable is really long, the alternating ground wires are important so it is best to do the separating just for the sections that need to be twisted or fitted through tight areas. you can also find aerodynamic cables that have been made round. they generally have twisted pairs which are actually better than just parallel wires. i have a large spool of this twisted pair wire but never needed to use it yet.
> e
> 
>> On 1/30/2014 3:49 AM, Kevin Goroway wrote:
>>  
>> Right.
>> 
>> DKVBrowser can only do what yamaha intended the PRC-100/TRC-100 to do.
>> 
>> I did built a "backup" option that will move all non-protected files to your PC along with a meta-data file so you don't lose any of the meta information (comments, song title, ratings, last played date, etc.) when you choose to move the files back to the piano.  This is incredibly important if you ever have to replace the disklavier itself, since a Yamaha backup is "locked" to a particular piano.
>> 
>> But, it can't do protected files, and it can't do anything about the operating system.
>> 
>> I wonder how difficult it would be to rig it so that the SSD is EXTERNAL to the Disklavier.  Then a quick disconnect/backup (image)/re-connect operation could be done via some other computer.
>> 
>> -Kevin
>> 
>> From: Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@gmail.com>
>> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 2:16 AM
>> Subject: Re: [disklavier] SSD failures - Mark 1V
>> 
>>  
>> It occurred to me after I wrote my message that, as Kevin will verify, there’s no way to do what I’d like. You can’t mount the file system and then do a disk image of the whole thing… i.e., you can boot the HD or SSD… i.e., this could only be made to work if you boot the piano off a CD or USB stick and then do a disk image. 
>> 
>> As per below, it’s possible to boot off a CD. That means, if someone ever felt like getting around to it, you could create a CD that boots a minimal OS and then captures a disk image of the SSD and dumps it to a USB stick. 
>> 
>> Bill, thank you for offering… I don’t think I’ll need the 3-CD set because I have a relatively recent image of the SSD I installed. Whether the restore function works off a backup… who knows, I hope I’ll never need it. At some point I’ll remove the SSD and clone it and perhaps every 6 months swap one for the other, always having a pretty current one and a backup. It’s not trivial removing that drive but it’s not a huge deal either.
>> 
>> …..HK
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 10:34 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> That does sound easier if you make the clone before the HDD dies.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 9:13 PM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> sounds like a lot to do compared to a simple disc cloning that takes about 30 minutes of unattended waiting for a 1 tb computer drive that has about 250 gigs of data on it.
>>> 
>>>> On 1/29/2014 9:04 PM, Bill Brandom wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> NEAL and HORATIO,
>>>> 
>>>> I have never experienced the backup/restore problems that Neal has described. I have never found the Mark IV backup/restore function not to work. I backed up last week. After seeing your emails, I decided to do a restore and it looks like it is working perfectly. (I won't know, however, until the process completes in about 3 hours.)
>>>> 
>>>> During the last year, I have replaced my hard drive twice. The first time was with a standard hard drive I purchased from an electronics store. The second time I replaced the drive with a SSD drive. In both cases, I did backups before the replacement and then used the restore function to get all of my music to the new drive. To say the least, I have a considerable amount of software (one of the benefits working for Yamaha for 31 years...). As a result, I actually have two different backups (with two different sets of music)  I work from. By using the restore function, I am easily able to switch back and forth between my two sets of music data.
>>>> 
>>>> NEAL, my Mark IV operating system is currently DIO 4.21. The two USB hard drives I use have been formatted as MS-DOS FAT 32. The only negative I can find with the Mark IV backup/restore function is that it takes a long time (USB 1.0). So, before I go to bed, I start either the backup or the restore. When I wake up, the job is done. Neal, give it a try. Just make sure that your external drive is formatted MS-DOS FAT 32.
>>>> 
>>>> HORATIO, first of all, there is an easy way to take a hard drive and use it with the Mark IV. First, do your music software backup. There are RESCUE CDs that can be used to place the operating system, internal piano voice and all of the factory installed music software on the drive. Three CDs are required, along with an update floppy. To do the rescue, the 1st CD is inserted in the drive, along with the update floppy. The piano is powered on and a couple of buttons have to be pushed on the I/O center during the boot sequence. When the 1st CD has been loaded, the CD drive ejects the CD and then you insert the 2nd CD, after it is loaded, you insert the 3rd CD. After the 3rd CD has been loaded, the rescue is done. The piano is now running operating system DIO 3.0. From there, you can perform your music software restore function, and then update your piano over the Internet using Network Update.
>>>> 
>>>> If you need the three iso files that make up the 3.0 rescue set, let me know and I will send you links so you can download them. Each of them are about 600 MB and each are burned as an image to the CDs. I can help you with this process, if you need assistance.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 7:16 PM, carwizard <carwizard@...> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The restore feature of the Disklavier built in backup program no longer works. Most users are not aware of this.
>>>> 
>>>> I lost my hard drive 4 months ago. I replaced the drive and then used the built in restore function to bring back my music.to my surprise, it errored.  I called Freddie at Yamaha and informed him of the issue. He then tested and verified on his equipment to see if this was a local problem or system wide one. Unfortunately, he too had the problem which makes all of us in jeopardy. He said he would submit the problem to Japan, but so far, no fix has been made. So I ended up spending 14 hours reloading all my music and then did a "image" backup for protection. Unfortunately, I have added music since the image backup, which remains not backed up.
>>>> 
>>>> I am in the process of writing a letter to Yossi, and having Martain in Yamaha service,deliver it. This is an unexceptable flaw in what otherwise is a beautiful piano and service.
>>>> 
>>>> Neal - President
>>>> Affordable Classics, Inc
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 6:40 PM, "Horatio Kemeny" <hkemeny@...> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> The backup function seems to create a very proprietary set of files which I’m guessing work well within the confines of the “backup” and “restore” functions of the Mark IV. But if you lose the whole HD, you lose the file systems and the operating systems… and you’ll never get to that menu. It would be arduous but not impossible… you’d restore the whole drive from the original image, then do any upgrades that Yamaha has provided since, and then use the restore function to pull your material from the backup — and hope it works. I’ve never restored from it, but my only experiences with propriatery backup/restore systems aren’t great.  Anyone who remembers MS-DOS’s Backup/Restore will certainly know of what I speak. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> DKVBrowser lets you copy actual files, but only the non-protected files. A PianoSoft CD that’s been imported to the HD would have to be re-imported.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In bits and pieces, it’d be possible to rebuild from scratch, providing you’ve been dutifully making backups. It just occurs to me that the right way to do this would be a complete HD image. One snapshot and done.
>>>>> 
>>>>> …..HK
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Horatio, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can't you use the Mark IV backup function?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@...> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There seems to be an emerging trend with respect to SSD failures… that when they fail, they fail instantly. A mechanical HD would typically start causing problems and throwing out errors, giving you some time (days or weeks) to deal with it. Not so with SSD. A simple Google of “SSD failure” will pop up a concerning list of articles.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For those who aren’t sure what I’m talking about, you have nothing to worry about… your piano, if it has a HD, has a mechanical old-school one. For those of us who’ve done an upgrade from mechanical to SSD, this is an issue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sidenote: upgrading the HD makes your piano perform wonderfully. Boot times are measured in seconds, not minutes. Jumping around menus goes from annoying to instant. Far more storage space.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The issue that it could die at any moment, though, throws a bit of a snag into things. It’s not so simple to back-up that entire drive. Its contents, sure… but if my SSD died now, I’d have to be reverting to the disk image I manually made before I did the upgrade. And I’d lose any new content that I hadn’t backed up, and would have to restore it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So……. suggestions? Anyone know of a good way to backup the piano’s HD without physically removing it and mounting it on an external machine? In a perfect world, DKVBrowser would have an option to [Create HD image] and with one keystroke, you could keep a backup on a computer and simply image a new SSD when needed. Hey Kevin, are you reading this?! :) Is that feasible? Is there a better way? Another way?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> …..HK
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
>>>>>> disklavier-owner@...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To reach our group's web site go to:
>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/disklavier/info
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>>>>> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
>>>>>> disklavier-unsubscribe@... Groups Links
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> Best regards, Spencer Chase
>>> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
>>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>> Spencer@...
>>> http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>> (707) 984-8356 
>>> (425) 791-0309
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356 
> (425) 791-0309

On 01/30/2014 11:23 AM, Bill Brandom wrote:
> Hi Rich,
>
> The main problem is the MarkIV can play MIDI files from an external 
> device but cannot recognize or play audio files from an external device.
>
> Bill
>
> On Jan 30, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Richard Freeman <rfreeman26@... 
> <mailto:rfreeman26@...>> wrote:
>
> ... Instead of replacing the HD, why not use a USB flash drive? It 
> seems the biggest concern is loosing the music files following a crash 
> - the USB drives can be easily backed up. And they are inexpensive!
>

> On 01/30/2014 11:23 AM, Bill Brandom wrote:
>  
> Hi Rich,
> 
> The main problem is the MarkIV can play MIDI files from an external device but cannot recognize or play audio files from an external device. 
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Jan 30, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Richard Freeman <rfreeman26@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> ... Instead of replacing the HD, why not use a USB flash drive? It seems the biggest concern is loosing the music files following a crash - the USB drives can be easily backed up. And they are inexpensive!

From:\ufffdHoratio Kemeny\ufffd
To:\ufffddisklavier@yahoogroups.com\ufffd
Sent:\ufffdThursday, January 30, 2014 2:16 AM
Subject:\ufffdRe: [disklavier] SSD failures - Mark 1V

\ufffd

It occurred to me after I wrote my message that, as Kevin will verify, there\ufffds no way to do what I\ufffdd like. You can\ufffdt mount the file system and then do a disk image of the whole thing\ufffd i.e., you can boot the HD or SSD\ufffd i.e., this could only be made to work if you boot the piano off a CD or USB stick and then do a disk image.\ufffd

As per below, it\ufffds possible to boot off a CD. That means, if someone ever felt like getting around to it, you could create a CD that boots a minimal OS and then captures a disk image of the SSD and dumps it to a USB stick.\ufffd

Bill, thank you for offering\ufffd I don\ufffdt think I\ufffdll need the 3-CD set because I have a relatively recent image of the SSD I installed. Whether the restore function works off a backup\ufffd who knows, I hope I\ufffdll never need it. At some point I\ufffdll remove the SSD and clone it and perhaps every 6 months swap one for the other, always having a pretty current one and a backup. It\ufffds not trivial removing that drive but it\ufffds not a huge deal either.

\ufffd..HK

On Jan 29, 2014, at 10:34 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:

That does sound easier if you make the clone before the HDD dies.

Bill

On Jan 29, 2014, at 9:13 PM, Spencer Chase <lists@...> wrote:

\ufffd

sounds like a lot to do compared to a simple disc cloning that takes about 30 minutes of unattended waiting for a 1 tb computer drive that has about 250 gigs of data on it.

On 1/29/2014 9:04 PM, Bill Brandom wrote:

\ufffd

NEAL and HORATIO,

I have never experienced the backup/restore problems that Neal has described. I have never found the Mark IV backup/restore function not to work. I backed up last week. After seeing your emails, I decided to do a restore and it looks like it is working perfectly. (I won't know, however, until the process completes in about 3 hours.)

During the last year, I have replaced my hard drive twice. The first time was with a standard hard drive I purchased from an electronics store. The second time I replaced the drive with a SSD drive. In both cases, I did backups before the replacement and then used the restore function to get all of my music to the new drive. To say the least, I have a considerable amount of software (one of the benefits working for Yamaha for 31 years...). As a result, I actually have two different backups (with two different sets of music) \ufffdI work from. By using the restore function, I am easily able to switch back and forth between my two sets of music data.

NEAL, my Mark IV operating system is currently DIO 4.21. The two USB hard drives I use have been formatted as MS-DOS FAT 32. The only negative I can find with the Mark IV backup/restore function is that it takes a long time (USB 1.0). So, before I go to bed, I start either the backup or the restore. When I wake up, the job is done. Neal, give it a try. Just make sure that your external drive is formatted MS-DOS FAT 32.

HORATIO, first of all, there is an easy way to take a hard drive and use it with the Mark IV. First, do your music software backup. There are RESCUE CDs that can be used to place the operating system, internal piano voice and all of the factory installed music software on the drive. Three CDs are required, along with an update floppy. To do the rescue, the 1st CD is inserted in the drive, along with the update floppy. The piano is powered on and a couple of buttons have to be pushed on the I/O center during the boot sequence. When the 1st CD has been loaded, the CD drive ejects the CD and then you insert the 2nd CD, after it is loaded, you insert the 3rd CD. After the 3rd CD has been loaded, the rescue is done. The piano is now running operating system DIO 3.0. From there, you can perform your music software restore function, and then update your piano over the Internet using Network Update.

If you need the three iso files that make up the 3.0 rescue set, let me know and I will send you links so you can download them. Each of them are about 600 MB and each are burned as an image to the CDs. I can help you with this process, if you need assistance.

Bill

On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 7:16 PM, carwizard\ufffd<carwizard@...>\ufffdwrote:

\ufffd

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)

> On Jan 30, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Fred, the function was added after the release of the product. Let me see if I can the backup/restore instructions. 
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Jan 30, 2014, at 9:45 AM, <w9pnr1@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> Gentlemen:
> 
> I am  new to this group and have a couple of questions that I hope are not too basic.
> 
> You are discussing backup and restore.
> 
> Where is this function/option located?
> 
> I find nothing written about this feature in the User Manuals that I received with my MKIV.
> 
> Is there a technical manual of some sort that I should have received with the piano?
> 
> If so, please advise nomenclature.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Fred
>

> On Jan 30, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
> 
> Horatio,
> 
> I completed the restore operation with my flash drive and everything plays just fine. So at least for me, backing up and restoring from a flash drive seems to work perfectly.
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>>  
>> Thanks for finding the manual Horatio.
>> 
>> I have just backed up to a flash drive and am now doing a restore. I will let you know the results (in about 3 hours...)
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Here’s a good place to find the manuals:
>> 
>> http://www.manualslib.com/products/Yamaha-Mark-Iv-2147353.html
>> 
>> Around page 79 talks about backups.
>> 
>> I’ve used this function successfully using a USB thumb drive instead of a HDD.  Seems to have worked just fine, but I’m not about to erase my drive and try to restore it… but the files are all there. Note that the USB should be formatted with a FAT32 or similar file system.  The majority of files written on there will be hidden, so don’t worry if after 3 hours (that’s what it took) it looks like the USB is empty. It isn’t, and if you change your View (on whatever system you’re on) to display hidden files, you’ll see all the folder and files there.
>> 
>> …..HK
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Fred, the function was added after the release of the product. Let me see if I can the backup/restore instructions. 
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Jan 30, 2014, at 9:45 AM, <w9pnr1@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Gentlemen:
>>> 
>>> I am  new to this group and have a couple of questions that I hope are not too basic.
>>> 
>>> You are discussing backup and restore.
>>> 
>>> Where is this function/option located?
>>> 
>>> I find nothing written about this feature in the User Manuals that I received with my MKIV.
>>> 
>>> Is there a technical manual of some sort that I should have received with the piano?
>>> 
>>> If so, please advise nomenclature.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Fred
>>> 
> 
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2014 8:45 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] SSD failures - Mark 1V



  
    
                  

Thank you for taking the time and effort (and risk!) to do that.... I feel a lot better about it. :)


.....HK




On Jan 30, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:



     
                  

Horatio,


I completed the restore operation with my flash drive and everything plays just fine. So at least for me, backing up and restoring from a flash drive seems to work perfectly.


Bill




On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:

 
  
    
                  

Thanks for finding the manual Horatio.


I have just backed up to a flash drive and am now doing a restore. I will let you know the results (in about 3 hours...)


Bill


On Jan 30, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@gmail.com> wrote:


     
                  

Here’s a good place to find the manuals:


http://www.manualslib.com/products/Yamaha-Mark-Iv-2147353.html


Around page 79 talks about backups.


I’ve used this function successfully using a USB thumb drive instead of a HDD.  Seems to have worked just fine, but I’m not about to erase my drive and try to restore it… but the files are all there. Note that the USB should be formatted with a FAT32 or similar file system.  The majority of files written on there will be hidden, so don’t worry if after 3 hours (that’s what it took) it looks like the USB is empty. It isn’t, and if you change your View (on whatever system you’re on) to display hidden files, you’ll see all the folder and files there.


…..HK




On Jan 30, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:






Fred, the function was added after the release of the product. Let me see if I can the backup/restore instructions. 


Bill


On Jan 30, 2014, at 9:45 AM, <w9pnr1@...> wrote:


 


Gentlemen:
I am  new to this group and have a couple of questions that I hope are not too basic.
You are discussing backup and restore.
Where is this function/option located?
I find nothing written about this feature in the User Manuals that I received with my MKIV.
Is there a technical manual of some sort that I should have received with the piano?
If so, please advise nomenclature.


Thanks,


Fred

>
> Horatio,
> 
> 
> I am glad I did it and more glad that it all worked.
> 
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@...>
> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2014 8:45 pm
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] SSD failures - Mark 1V
> 
> 
> 
>   
>     
>                   
> 
> Thank you for taking the time and effort (and risk!) to do that.... I feel a lot better about it. :)
> 
> 
> .....HK
> 

> On Jan 30, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
> 

> Horatio,
> 
> 
> I completed the restore operation with my flash drive and everything plays just fine. So at least for me, backing up and restoring from a flash drive seems to work perfectly.
> 
> 
> Bill
> 

> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
> 

> Thanks for finding the manual Horatio.
> 
> 
> I have just backed up to a flash drive and am now doing a restore. I will let you know the results (in about 3 hours...)
> 
> 
> Bill
>

>
> Horatio,
>
>
> I am glad I did it and more glad that it all worked.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Horatio Kemeny <hkemeny@...<mailto:hkemeny@...>>
> To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com<mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2014 8:45 pm
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] SSD failures - Mark 1V
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time and effort (and risk!) to do that.... I feel a lot better about it. :)
>
>
> .....HK
>

> On Jan 30, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...<mailto:bill.brandom03@...>> wrote:
>

> Horatio,
>
>
> I completed the restore operation with my flash drive and everything plays just fine. So at least for me, backing up and restoring from a flash drive seems to work perfectly.
>
>
> Bill
>

> On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...<mailto:billbrando@...>> wrote:
>

> Thanks for finding the manual Horatio.
>
>
> I have just backed up to a flash drive and am now doing a restore. I will let you know the results (in about 3 hours...)
>
>
> Bill
>

>________________________________
> From: Wallace Lyle <awl_bidness@...>
>To: "Disklavier@yahoogroups.com" <Disklavier@yahoogroups.com> 
>Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 1:34 PM
>Subject: [disklavier] Need advice for MK III upgrade to DKC-850 and Internet Piano Radio
>  
>
>
>  
>Hello,
>
>
>I have been following posts in this group for over a year, and need help figuring out a sensible path to upgrade for Internet Piano Radio.
>
>
>In 2004 I purchased (from Evola Music in Toledo, OH) a Yamaha DC2A with Disklavier MK III, control unit DKC55RCD and silent key device.  
>
>
>After several moves, I have retired and live in suburbs NW of Houston, Texas.  
>
>
>I visited the Yamaha dealer in downtown Houston to seek service, tuning, and discuss upgrading to the DKC-850.  Unfortunately, the people I spoke with were incompetent and did not even follow up with the tuning.  They are now out of business, and I am trying to locate someone reasonably local to tune/service the piano and disklavier.  
>
>
>Any recommendations for technicians in the Houston area would be appreciated.  
>
>
>From reading posts in this group, I am fairly certain I can perform the work to replace the MK III with the DKC-850.  However, before replacing anything I need to figure out how to retrieve and back up music stored on the MK III hard drive and how to salvage the dozens of floppy discs I have purchased.  I have purchased the USB floppy drive that Sam Kanter described recently, but of course the MK III does not have USB access.
>
>
>I am assuming the DKC-850 will read and process the music I have purchased on CD's.
>
>
>(1) are there cables/adapters I can use to convert from the round 8 pin "To Host" plug to USB, or is there another way to retrieve the information from the hard drive?
>(2) are there cables/adapters I can use to convert from the round 5 pin "Midi In and Midi Out" plugs to USB, or should I be looking for something else?
>(3) what software is available for facilitating recovery from the MK III and floppy drives, and moving the data to the DKC-850?
>
>
>I am sure I am not the first one to face this task, but I have not been able to locate the discussions/instructions.  If anyone can point me to previous posted information I would be happy to sort through it and try to figure it out.
>
>
>Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.
>
>
>Roger
>
>
>     
>
>