Elektron Musical Instruments

Hi Daniel

Thanks for your clarification regarding the timing "issue".

Are you saying that the timing variations we experience in the MD 
playback are 100% deliberate?

You make it sound like it's a real feature...

If that were the case, why don't you guys give us the option to 
switch off that timing model?

I'm sure many other users would agree on this.

Best Regards
Leo


>
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elektron-users/message/14573;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMDZuYjk5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDc3MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzE5NTkEbXNnSWQDMTQ1NzMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3NzkzODAyNw-->Re: 
>advice Monomachine and Machine Drum or Spectralis
>
>Posted by: "daniel_elektron" <mailto:daniel@...?Subject= 
>Re%3A%20advice%20Monomachine%20and%20Machine%20Drum%20or%20Spectralis>daniel@...   
><http://profiles.yahoo.com/daniel_elektron> daniel_elektron
>
>Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:44 am (PST)
>
--- In 
<mailto:elektron-users%40yahoogroups.com>elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, 
ehdyn81@... wrote:

>  As for the user wave elektron, what ever became of the internal timing
>  issue? Some people on the forums were complaining of noticeable clock
>  jitter. Hard to believe as A.E. have really precise timing. But then
>  again,

I've always claimed that the Machinedrum is dead tight if you run it
on its internal sequencer, and I don't want to back of.

People have measured sample delays on individual hits, which is not
what I meant. There are some "magic" put into the timing of the
Elektron instruments, can't disclose all, but I suggested in the
thread to do a listening test and see what feels tighter.

Not always your ear want to hear the most dead spot on note, the ear
is more complex than that. Many of the legendary beat boxes have a
special grove to it, and I think that people would feel a hard-to-tell
lack of something if we made everything sample tight.

When we designed our own magic we went through all legendary drum
machines , especially the MPC-60 to get an idea of the "magic swing".
It's not a swing per as, but some notes we noticed where perceived as
more catchy if put a few samples forward or, most often before in
time. That's what people have been measuring. I don't want to go in
detail as we put a lot of effort into this other that to say - do
listening tests. Try a sample tight (computer sequencer) and take some
of your favorite beat boxes and see which result you prefer real life.

It was a big thread and I just had time for one post to state our view
on this, so it can easily get lost.

If you want rigidity, computer is the way to go, but we want to do
something more.

Note also that there is no delay between patterns, so the tempo is
kept dead tight over time. As a matter of fact we've had it run
alongside Protool for hours with any delays.

What you prefer is always individual, but there are reasons behind the
small, _almost_ unnoticeable timing of the different notes in the
16:th and 32 note realm.

Note that the MIDI clock out is always exact on the spot and when
running the internal sequencer (as well as standard MIDI can do it),
and that the internal "magic" (that's our view of it at least, I
respect others that prefer exact sample accuracy) is only applied when
you run on internal clock on the internal sequencer and is/can not be
applied to incoming MIDI triggering data.

Daniel, Elektron

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Leo Cavallo wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel
>
> Thanks for your clarification regarding the timing "issue".
>
> Are you saying that the timing variations we experience in the MD
> playback are 100% deliberate?
>
> You make it sound like it's a real feature...
>
> If that were the case, why don't you guys give us the option to
> switch off that timing model?
>
> I'm sure many other users would agree on this.
>
> Best Regards
> Leo
>
> >
> >
> ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elektron-users/message/14573;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMDZuYjk5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDc3MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzE5NTkEbXNnSWQDMTQ1NzMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3NzkzODAyNw-- 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elektron-users/message/14573;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMDZuYjk5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDc3MwRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzE5NTkEbXNnSWQDMTQ1NzMEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE3NzkzODAyNw-->>Re: 
>
> >advice Monomachine and Machine Drum or Spectralis
> >
> >Posted by: "daniel_elektron" <mailto:daniel@... 
> <mailto:daniel%40elektron.se>?Subject=
> >Re%3A%20advice%20Monomachine%20and%20Machine%20Drum%20or%20Spectralis>daniel@... 
> <mailto:daniel%40elektron.se>
> ><http://profiles.yahoo.com/daniel_elektron 
> <http://profiles.yahoo.com/daniel_elektron>> daniel_elektron
> >
> >Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:44 am (PST)
> >
> --- In
> <mailto:elektron-users%40yahoogroups.com>elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:elektron-users%40yahoogroups.com>,
> ehdyn81@... wrote:
>
> > As for the user wave elektron, what ever became of the internal timing
> > issue? Some people on the forums were complaining of noticeable clock
> > jitter. Hard to believe as A.E. have really precise timing. But then
> > again,
>
> I've always claimed that the Machinedrum is dead tight if you run it
> on its internal sequencer, and I don't want to back of.
>
> People have measured sample delays on individual hits, which is not
> what I meant. There are some "magic" put into the timing of the
> Elektron instruments, can't disclose all, but I suggested in the
> thread to do a listening test and see what feels tighter.
>
> Not always your ear want to hear the most dead spot on note, the ear
> is more complex than that. Many of the legendary beat boxes have a
> special grove to it, and I think that people would feel a hard-to-tell
> lack of something if we made everything sample tight.
>
> When we designed our own magic we went through all legendary drum
> machines , especially the MPC-60 to get an idea of the "magic swing".
> It's not a swing per as, but some notes we noticed where perceived as
> more catchy if put a few samples forward or, most often before in
> time. That's what people have been measuring. I don't want to go in
> detail as we put a lot of effort into this other that to say - do
> listening tests. Try a sample tight (computer sequencer) and take some
> of your favorite beat boxes and see which result you prefer real life.
>
> It was a big thread and I just had time for one post to state our view
> on this, so it can easily get lost.
>
> If you want rigidity, computer is the way to go, but we want to do
> something more.
>
> Note also that there is no delay between patterns, so the tempo is
> kept dead tight over time. As a matter of fact we've had it run
> alongside Protool for hours with any delays.
>
> What you prefer is always individual, but there are reasons behind the
> small, _almost_ unnoticeable timing of the different notes in the
> 16:th and 32 note realm.
>
> Note that the MIDI clock out is always exact on the spot and when
> running the internal sequencer (as well as standard MIDI can do it),
> and that the internal "magic" (that's our view of it at least, I
> respect others that prefer exact sample accuracy) is only applied when
> you run on internal clock on the internal sequencer and is/can not be
> applied to incoming MIDI triggering data.
>
> Daniel, Elektron
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  

D.P. = Motu digital performer: sequencer similar to logic

-- 
Cheers,
-Andrew
andrew_burgess@...

...it's not that simple to turn something like that on and off, we're
dealing with a multiprocessor (DSP) system that need to work on audio
in chunks, and we've adjusted them according to listening tests and
going through all available BeatBoxes on the market.

Also, people who have read my posts for a long time probably kow very
well that I'm not any fan of user options. I want an instrument to be
a generic tool, and if you find a Machinedrum it should be exactly the
same working as yours. I've explained this better in previous emails,
just thought I'd drop a note.

The following basic idea is catching the idea quite well: The goal of
the Machinedrum is to make the "worlds best drum machine" not to make
the "worlds most versatile drum machine".

..and I know that people will hate me for that. :) But I'm very much
of the belief that too many options and choices easily stand in the
way of creativity. When we intruduce a feature we always think hard if
it would have any negative impact on the workflow.

And we're talking about small, almost audible delays here, something
noone has really heard until they meassured the timing. However, maybe
they have _felt_ that they prefer a beat from a certain machine before
another.

Another hint of that the small timing fluctuation is deliberate and
hosted by a very high precision timer (We're talking MHz that's
divided down) is that it's never ever drifting, and the different
delays follow a special cycle. Not exact each turn, and nothing we've
pushed as a feature, rather something that we'd honoured if someone
said that the Machinedrum for sure has it's own sound, like the
dynamic 12-bit UW machines for sure has there own characteristics. We
could have done 16-bit with a straight frequency response, but then
everything would have sounded like on your computer, and is that why
you decide to buy an expensive drum machine? We want to provide
something "extra" or at least "special" in all parts.

Another note on the guy that got that 120bpm on the Machinedrum
doesn't agree with Protools 120bpm. This is actually the exact result
we have got. 120bpm ran alongside Protools for hours (or if it was
100bpm). But what you have to know that in the digital world you
always have at least one digital master clock. In the case of running
the MD beside Protools, Protools must get it's masterclock from
somewhere. And usually that is from its sound card. I know that we
have the Machinedrum very tighly set to "real time", but when you have
two different master clocks there is always the risk of that one will
drift. Therefore the use of MIDI clocks, or distributed digital
signals (WITH clock for gods sake! :). But then you'd loose part of
the Machinedrum sound as it is to a at least some part influenced by
the overdriven audio sub system.

What would be very interesting would be if people would do test tracks
with different drum machines, and see if they enjoy the timing better
from one or the other. I read about one guy that rest and sampled each
microsetting of the an and got so pissed it didn't sound like an 808
at all in his sampler - a typical example where the sequencer plays a
part of the sound. He bought one later (808 that is). :)

Daniel, Elektron - Pro mysticism and undocumented secrets that users
dig up sooner or later :)

PS. About the kit edit implementation - I agree it's not optimally
designed. It's so tight with buttons & functions though. The up/down
is probably the only ones left!


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Leo Cavallo <leocavallo@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Daniel
> 
> Thanks for your clarification regarding the timing "issue".
> 
> Are you saying that the timing variations we experience in the MD 
> playback are 100% deliberate?
> 
> You make it sound like it's a real feature...
> 
> If that were the case, why don't you guys give us the option to 
> switch off that timing model?
> 
> I'm sure many other users would agree on this.
> 
> Best Regards
> Leo
>

--- daniel_elektron <daniel@...> schrieb:

 The goal of
> the Machinedrum is to make the "worlds best drum
> machine" not to make
> the "worlds most versatile drum machine".
> 


great..than do it...
I can claim that i ve worked intesiv with most of the
availible drum machines... 
The worlds best drummachine is yet to be born...
really...

There are good things and bad things in all of them..
An 808 that could be brought to recordmode while
running would be close to perfection...

the 32 step sequencer of the vermona DRM1 is a great
interface...

the pads of an mpc allowe realtime input that
matters...

The MD has a synthesis engine that opens the world of
dsp sounds for people that cant patch... it grooves..

The handling is really fucking strange... Its much
better now with os 1.32 and above...but its not so
long ago that you couldnt copy a pattern without
loosing your sound tweaks when you just did the copy
without safing the kit before... autsch...

sorry..that was not even close to the behavior i
expect from the worlds best drum machine...
Also that it cant be master clock while reciving
external sync is not really top of the pops...
However..as long its your goal to have the worlds best
drummachine you will get there..
I would like that  ;-)...



> ..and I know that people will hate me for that. :)
> But I'm very much
> of the belief that too many options and choices
> easily stand in the
> way of creativity. 

To much menu stepping isnt good for creativity
either..sometimes user options are great... expert
functions like track offsets are essential on a
machine as the mpc ...to much functions in something
as simple as a drumcomputer? in relation to a daw it
never can get the pain level..
But i agree that features should make sense and it
should be a streamlined package... nord modular versus
reaktor is a good example...
But a certain level of complexity is possible..
Anyway..good features have higher impact with simple
usage..
I once asked for a perforamce song mode where you can
select songs as you select patterns... just press a
button and use songs as macro patterns...
New feature but in the endresult more simple to use
than selecting songs in a display menu...
Just an example...
The MD is not my drummachine with the highest
performance factor..
it has a good performance factor..but its not the best
of the world..

electribes sound crap..but better performance
factor...808 ..cant do much..but much higher
performance factor..the fill button..wow..

Mpc.. also not bad..similar to MD..

Vermona... linndrum... 707...909...
just the exsitence of a dedicated volume knob for each
instrumnet creates a high performance factor...

Pattern copy on the md while running... you allways
get a nasty gap..
there are machines that handel a pattern copy without
loosing output...

Worlds best drummachine? one of the best..but still
can be improoved..

> Another note on the guy that got that 120bpm on the
> Machinedrum
> doesn't agree with Protools 120bpm. This is actually
> the exact result
> we have got. 120bpm ran alongside Protools for hours
>

That was me..and i wish the MD would have a timebase
like a pc..theese days the timebase of
cubase..logic...live--protools is the same..
on pc and apple..
this is pretty new... 7 years ago we had problems
there..but now  its possible to work in free
sync..exept when you have hardware drummachines as
clockmaster..there is none that matches the PC
timebase... none... like usual an mpc 3000 gives you a
better 120 bpm as an electribe... but...  free sync is
when you can go at least 3-5 minutes with no restart
need... 

I really cant see how you managed to run in parralel
with a modern protools system for hours... but i ve
another MD here now..maybe the are different? i check
again.. 
But the MD i had before was clearly not running at the
same speed as protools , Live ,Logic




> 
> What would be very interesting would be if people
> would do test tracks
> with different drum machines, and see if they enjoy
> the timing better

Sure...we do that every day...  i ve 5 drum sources
theese days..i had less in the past..and more in the
past i had much more...actually all of them in one
studio... the all behave different...run a 909 at 260
bpm and you get it shuffling like hell..

The MD has a good groove..but an 808 that is 100%
tight has a good groove aswell..its the sound engine
that makes it swing..rather a decay and phase thing
..but the envelope starts sample accurat in refference
to a 44,1k sample clock...
So groove has many factors... precission is not
necessarily a bad thing as you can see with the 808...
but its not everything as you can see with the MD... 



> from one or the other. I read about one guy that
> rest and sampled each
> microsetting of the an and got so pissed it didn't
> sound like an 808

The art of sampling analog drummachines is not known
by many people...  you cant just sample the sound and
expect it to sound...
Its the tweakability that makes this machines groovy..

Make a track and give it a propper mixdown..sample
afterwards your 808 or 909 1:1 with all eq and level
settings...

You will have a good 808/909 sample set because the
sounds are in relation to each other...

It never works when you have theese 3 bd 4 snares kind
of sets..

One good tuned set of drums...with synth drum machines
your chance is much higher to get a good tuned set..
That is the strength of the MD that makes it better
than a MPC...#



> at all in his sampler - a typical example where the
> sequencer plays a
> part of the sound. He bought one later (808 that
> is). :)


Sequencer...yes..important..but its the tweakability
of the sounds that makes a 808 sing...Marvin Gays
Sexual Healing...
Best 808  track ever...

> 
> Daniel, Elektron - Pro mysticism and undocumented
> secrets that users
> dig up sooner or later :)
> 
> PS. About the kit edit implementation - I agree it's
> not optimally
> designed. It's so tight with buttons & functions
> though. The up/down
> is probably the only ones left!

yep...they need a good use :-) i think the idea to
make tham jump buttons to most used suppages is not
bad..
just the question which...

down..is kit edit..up is master fx..?
function up is kit load..function down is kit safe?

maybe user definable is not bad... a bit again the
generic machine concept..but aslong its just 2
buttons?
wouldnt turn the MD into some kind of logic alike
monster...

Logic is really a mess regarding the user
interface..everything is possible... but be in another
studio without your setup is like being a total
beginner again...




      __________________________________  Yahoo! Clever: Sie haben Fragen? Yahoo! Nutzer antworten Ihnen. www.yahoo.de/clever

Hey Silvia,

Later this year we may have another possible claim to the world's best drummachine - the BoomChick from Dave Smith.  It will be quite an interesting marriage between Mr. Machinedrum and Ms. BoomChick.  Or maybe you should arrange a threesome with your MPC.  ;-)

One note on your email - the reason the EMX and ESX Electribes "sound like crap" is a sneaky Korg fact (hey, Elektron's not the only ones...).  Many of the factory default drum samples are sampled at 32kHz, as are many of the other factory samples.  If you put 44.1kHz sound files in the ESX, you may be somewhat surprised at the good quality.  Furthermore, if you use the EMX's "synth parts" as simple drum parts, you can coax some extremely harsh digital noise out of that box that even makes the MD want to cover his inputs...

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Silvia Tubig 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:15 PM
  Subject: RE: [elektron] Elektron's timing "signature" (was Re: advice Monomachine and Machine Drum or Sp



  --- daniel_elektron <daniel@...> schrieb:

  The goal of
  > the Machinedrum is to make the "worlds best drum
  > machine" not to make
  > the "worlds most versatile drum machine".
  > 

  great..than do it...
  I can claim that i ve worked intesiv with most of the
  availible drum machines... 
  The worlds best drummachine is yet to be born...
  really...

  There are good things and bad things in all of them..
  An 808 that could be brought to recordmode while
  running would be close to perfection...

  the 32 step sequencer of the vermona DRM1 is a great
  interface...

  the pads of an mpc allowe realtime input that
  matters...

  The MD has a synthesis engine that opens the world of
  dsp sounds for people that cant patch... it grooves..

  The handling is really fucking strange... Its much
  better now with os 1.32 and above...but its not so
  long ago that you couldnt copy a pattern without
  loosing your sound tweaks when you just did the copy
  without safing the kit before... autsch...

  sorry..that was not even close to the behavior i
  expect from the worlds best drum machine...
  Also that it cant be master clock while reciving
  external sync is not really top of the pops...
  However..as long its your goal to have the worlds best
  drummachine you will get there..
  I would like that ;-)...

  > ..and I know that people will hate me for that. :)
  > But I'm very much
  > of the belief that too many options and choices
  > easily stand in the
  > way of creativity. 

  To much menu stepping isnt good for creativity
  either..sometimes user options are great... expert
  functions like track offsets are essential on a
  machine as the mpc ...to much functions in something
  as simple as a drumcomputer? in relation to a daw it
  never can get the pain level..
  But i agree that features should make sense and it
  should be a streamlined package... nord modular versus
  reaktor is a good example...
  But a certain level of complexity is possible..
  Anyway..good features have higher impact with simple
  usage..
  I once asked for a perforamce song mode where you can
  select songs as you select patterns... just press a
  button and use songs as macro patterns...
  New feature but in the endresult more simple to use
  than selecting songs in a display menu...
  Just an example...
  The MD is not my drummachine with the highest
  performance factor..
  it has a good performance factor..but its not the best
  of the world..

  electribes sound crap..but better performance
  factor...808 ..cant do much..but much higher
  performance factor..the fill button..wow..

  Mpc.. also not bad..similar to MD..

  Vermona... linndrum... 707...909...
  just the exsitence of a dedicated volume knob for each
  instrumnet creates a high performance factor...

  Pattern copy on the md while running... you allways
  get a nasty gap..
  there are machines that handel a pattern copy without
  loosing output...

  Worlds best drummachine? one of the best..but still
  can be improoved..

  > Another note on the guy that got that 120bpm on the
  > Machinedrum
  > doesn't agree with Protools 120bpm. This is actually
  > the exact result
  > we have got. 120bpm ran alongside Protools for hours
  >

  That was me..and i wish the MD would have a timebase
  like a pc..theese days the timebase of
  cubase..logic...live--protools is the same..
  on pc and apple..
  this is pretty new... 7 years ago we had problems
  there..but now its possible to work in free
  sync..exept when you have hardware drummachines as
  clockmaster..there is none that matches the PC
  timebase... none... like usual an mpc 3000 gives you a
  better 120 bpm as an electribe... but... free sync is
  when you can go at least 3-5 minutes with no restart
  need... 

  I really cant see how you managed to run in parralel
  with a modern protools system for hours... but i ve
  another MD here now..maybe the are different? i check
  again.. 
  But the MD i had before was clearly not running at the
  same speed as protools , Live ,Logic

  > 
  > What would be very interesting would be if people
  > would do test tracks
  > with different drum machines, and see if they enjoy
  > the timing better

  Sure...we do that every day... i ve 5 drum sources
  theese days..i had less in the past..and more in the
  past i had much more...actually all of them in one
  studio... the all behave different...run a 909 at 260
  bpm and you get it shuffling like hell..

  The MD has a good groove..but an 808 that is 100%
  tight has a good groove aswell..its the sound engine
  that makes it swing..rather a decay and phase thing
  ..but the envelope starts sample accurat in refference
  to a 44,1k sample clock...
  So groove has many factors... precission is not
  necessarily a bad thing as you can see with the 808...
  but its not everything as you can see with the MD... 

  > from one or the other. I read about one guy that
  > rest and sampled each
  > microsetting of the an and got so pissed it didn't
  > sound like an 808

  The art of sampling analog drummachines is not known
  by many people... you cant just sample the sound and
  expect it to sound...
  Its the tweakability that makes this machines groovy..

  Make a track and give it a propper mixdown..sample
  afterwards your 808 or 909 1:1 with all eq and level
  settings...

  You will have a good 808/909 sample set because the
  sounds are in relation to each other...

  It never works when you have theese 3 bd 4 snares kind
  of sets..

  One good tuned set of drums...with synth drum machines
  your chance is much higher to get a good tuned set..
  That is the strength of the MD that makes it better
  than a MPC...#

  > at all in his sampler - a typical example where the
  > sequencer plays a
  > part of the sound. He bought one later (808 that
  > is). :)

  Sequencer...yes..important..but its the tweakability
  of the sounds that makes a 808 sing...Marvin Gays
  Sexual Healing...
  Best 808 track ever...

  > 
  > Daniel, Elektron - Pro mysticism and undocumented
  > secrets that users
  > dig up sooner or later :)
  > 
  > PS. About the kit edit implementation - I agree it's
  > not optimally
  > designed. It's so tight with buttons & functions
  > though. The up/down
  > is probably the only ones left!

  yep...they need a good use :-) i think the idea to
  make tham jump buttons to most used suppages is not
  bad..
  just the question which...

  down..is kit edit..up is master fx..?
  function up is kit load..function down is kit safe?

  maybe user definable is not bad... a bit again the
  generic machine concept..but aslong its just 2
  buttons?
  wouldnt turn the MD into some kind of logic alike
  monster...

  Logic is really a mess regarding the user
  interface..everything is possible... but be in another
  studio without your setup is like being a total
  beginner again...

  __________________________________ Yahoo! Clever: Sie haben Fragen? Yahoo! Nutzer antworten Ihnen. www.yahoo.de/clever



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

its not that electribes sound really crap...
was a bit overpainted but they are not the machines
with the heaviest or cleanest sound out there...
They are defently nice drummachines.. good to
write..good user interface..fast copy and
safe...performant... i still have a ES-1 because i
like the dub delay that goes over all instruments more
than on the ESX models...
Biggest problem with them.. They are too late in
relation to others what makes them a bit difficult in
direct sync with other sequencers...


One good thing about the micro timing of the MD...i ve
a beat here running now for 2 hours... it defenetly
gets better as longer it runs ;-)
it has really a liquid quality how the instruments do
theier slight shifts...



--- Scott <synthysyzor@...> schrieb:

> Hey Silvia,
> 
> Later this year we may have another possible claim
> to the world's best drummachine - the BoomChick from
> Dave Smith.  It will be quite an interesting
> marriage between Mr. Machinedrum and Ms. BoomChick. 
> Or maybe you should arrange a threesome with your
> MPC.  ;-)
> 
> One note on your email - the reason the EMX and ESX
> Electribes "sound like crap" is a sneaky Korg fact
> (hey, Elektron's not the only ones...).  Many of the
> factory default drum samples are sampled at 32kHz,
> as are many of the other factory samples.  If you
> put 44.1kHz sound files in the ESX, you may be
> somewhat surprised at the good quality. 
> Furthermore, if you use the EMX's "synth parts" as
> simple drum parts, you can coax some extremely harsh
> digital noise out of that box that even makes the MD
> want to cover his inputs...
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Silvia Tubig 
>   To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:15 PM
>   Subject: RE: [elektron] Elektron's timing
> "signature" (was Re: advice Monomachine and Machine
> Drum or Sp
> 
> 
> 
>   --- daniel_elektron <daniel@...> schrieb:
> 
>   The goal of
>   > the Machinedrum is to make the "worlds best drum
>   > machine" not to make
>   > the "worlds most versatile drum machine".
>   > 
> 
>   great..than do it...
>   I can claim that i ve worked intesiv with most of
> the
>   availible drum machines... 
>   The worlds best drummachine is yet to be born...
>   really...
> 
>   There are good things and bad things in all of
> them..
>   An 808 that could be brought to recordmode while
>   running would be close to perfection...
> 
>   the 32 step sequencer of the vermona DRM1 is a
> great
>   interface...
> 
>   the pads of an mpc allowe realtime input that
>   matters...
> 
>   The MD has a synthesis engine that opens the world
> of
>   dsp sounds for people that cant patch... it
> grooves..
> 
>   The handling is really fucking strange... Its much
>   better now with os 1.32 and above...but its not so
>   long ago that you couldnt copy a pattern without
>   loosing your sound tweaks when you just did the
> copy
>   without safing the kit before... autsch...
> 
>   sorry..that was not even close to the behavior i
>   expect from the worlds best drum machine...
>   Also that it cant be master clock while reciving
>   external sync is not really top of the pops...
>   However..as long its your goal to have the worlds
> best
>   drummachine you will get there..
>   I would like that ;-)...
> 
>   > ..and I know that people will hate me for that.
> :)
>   > But I'm very much
>   > of the belief that too many options and choices
>   > easily stand in the
>   > way of creativity. 
> 
>   To much menu stepping isnt good for creativity
>   either..sometimes user options are great... expert
>   functions like track offsets are essential on a
>   machine as the mpc ...to much functions in
> something
>   as simple as a drumcomputer? in relation to a daw
> it
>   never can get the pain level..
>   But i agree that features should make sense and it
>   should be a streamlined package... nord modular
> versus
>   reaktor is a good example...
>   But a certain level of complexity is possible..
>   Anyway..good features have higher impact with
> simple
>   usage..
>   I once asked for a perforamce song mode where you
> can
>   select songs as you select patterns... just press
> a
>   button and use songs as macro patterns...
>   New feature but in the endresult more simple to
> use
>   than selecting songs in a display menu...
>   Just an example...
>   The MD is not my drummachine with the highest
>   performance factor..
>   it has a good performance factor..but its not the
> best
>   of the world..
> 
>   electribes sound crap..but better performance
>   factor...808 ..cant do much..but much higher
>   performance factor..the fill button..wow..
> 
>   Mpc.. also not bad..similar to MD..
> 
>   Vermona... linndrum... 707...909...
>   just the exsitence of a dedicated volume knob for
> each
>   instrumnet creates a high performance factor...
> 
>   Pattern copy on the md while running... you
> allways
>   get a nasty gap..
>   there are machines that handel a pattern copy
> without
>   loosing output...
> 
>   Worlds best drummachine? one of the best..but
> still
>   can be improoved..
> 
>   > Another note on the guy that got that 120bpm on
> the
>   > Machinedrum
>   > doesn't agree with Protools 120bpm. This is
> actually
>   > the exact result
>   > we have got. 120bpm ran alongside Protools for
> hours
>   >
> 
>   That was me..and i wish the MD would have a
> timebase
>   like a pc..theese days the timebase of
>   cubase..logic...live--protools is the same..
>   on pc and apple..
>   this is pretty new... 7 years ago we had problems
>   there..but now its possible to work in free
>   sync..exept when you have hardware drummachines as
>   clockmaster..there is none that matches the PC
>   timebase... none... like usual an mpc 3000 gives
> you a
>   better 120 bpm as an electribe... but... free sync
> is
>   when you can go at least 3-5 minutes with no
> restart
>   need... 
> 
>   I really cant see how you managed to run in
> parralel
>   with a modern protools system for hours... but i
> ve
>   another MD here now..maybe the are different? i
> check
>   again.. 
>   But the MD i had before was clearly not running at
> the
>   same speed as protools , Live ,Logic
> 
>   > 
>   > What would be very interesting would be if
> people
>   > would do test tracks
>   > with different drum machines, and see if they
> enjoy
>   > the timing better
> 
>   Sure...we do that every day... i ve 5 drum sources
>   theese days..i had less in the past..and more in
> the
>   past i had much more...actually all of them in one
>   studio... the all behave different...run a 909 at
> 260
>   bpm and you get it shuffling like hell..
> 
>   The MD has a good groove..but an 808 that is 100%
>   tight has a good groove aswell..its the sound
> engine
>   that makes it swing..rather a decay and phase
> thing
>   ..but the envelope starts sample accurat in
> refference
> 
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