Elektron Musical Instruments

will it be 24 voice soon ?:)  or are we destined for permanent 
monosynthism?

On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 07:11:21AM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
>    will it be 24 voice soon ?:)  or are we destined for permanent
>    monosynthism?

I'm not sure about this either.  I don't think it's ever been fully
explained. but I think the gist is that it's *capable* of 24 voices
in the DSP.

the most polyphony I can think of in it is if you use an ensemble
machine to program a chord (three voices). then use poly mode with
the ensemble machine, which effectively multiplies that machine by
six (polyphony-wise); i.e. 6*3 = 18 voices. but twenty-four, I don't
know.

Joe

actually the ensemble generates 4 voice chords.
6 times 4 is 24.
but i doubt that this is the reason for Elektron to claim that the mono is capable to 
produce 24 voices in their original product announcements.
Guess only David or Daniel can answer this question.
i have aenough polyphonic equipment so i dont suffer too much from monosynthism.
Its just a different way of working and i find it very inspiring.

Hans



--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 07:11:21AM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
> >    will it be 24 voice soon ?:)  or are we destined for permanent
> >    monosynthism?
> 
> I'm not sure about this either.  I don't think it's ever been fully
> explained. but I think the gist is that it's *capable* of 24 voices
> in the DSP.
> 
> the most polyphony I can think of in it is if you use an ensemble
> machine to program a chord (three voices). then use poly mode with
> the ensemble machine, which effectively multiplies that machine by
> six (polyphony-wise); i.e. 6*3 = 18 voices. but twenty-four, I don't
> know.
> 
> Joe

that'd be super lame if that was the explanation of the 24 voice...

maybe it's just not complete?  it seems so far to be a moderately 
work in proggress synth, no?

I seem to get bugs about not being able to play some sounds sometime 
from sequencer which confuses me;o

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "schmackofanz" 
<digitalaudiodesign@t...> wrote:
> actually the ensemble generates 4 voice chords.
> 6 times 4 is 24.
> but i doubt that this is the reason for Elektron to claim that the 
mono is capable to 
> produce 24 voices in their original product announcements.
> Guess only David or Daniel can answer this question.
> i have aenough polyphonic equipment so i dont suffer too much from 
monosynthism.
> Its just a different way of working and i find it very inspiring.
> 
> Hans
> 
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 07:11:21AM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
> > >    will it be 24 voice soon ?:)  or are we destined for 
permanent
> > >    monosynthism?
> > 
> > I'm not sure about this either.  I don't think it's ever been 
fully
> > explained. but I think the gist is that it's *capable* of 24 
voices
> > in the DSP.
> > 
> > the most polyphony I can think of in it is if you use an ensemble
> > machine to program a chord (three voices). then use poly mode with
> > the ensemble machine, which effectively multiplies that machine by
> > six (polyphony-wise); i.e. 6*3 = 18 voices. but twenty-four, I 
don't

> > know.
> > 
> > Joe

On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 07:53:02AM -0000, schmackofanz wrote:
>    actually the ensemble generates 4 voice chords.

oops!  yeah, I don't use it that often, I guess. so I'm not surprised I
made that mistake.

>    6 times 4 is 24.

since when?!?

>    but  i  doubt  that  this is the reason for Elektron to claim that the
>    mono is capable to
>    produce 24 voices in their original product announcements.
>    Guess only David or Daniel can answer this question.

right.

Joe

On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 07:57:24AM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
>    that'd be super lame if that was the explanation of the 24 voice...
>    maybe it's just not complete?

I doubt it. when people discuss polyphonic requests for the MnM, the reply
from Elektron is usually "this is meant to primarily be a multitimbral
monophonic synth".

anyway, the 24 voice thing makes sense to me; the same way that the MD
being 16-voice polyphonic makes sense.

> it seems so far to be a moderately
>    work in proggress synth, no?

maybe up until recently.  and I'm guessing they'll be making a few more
additions in the near future.  but I doubt they'd be making such a major
addition now that the units are actually being sold (i.e. non-beta units).
such a feature would change the character of the MnM and change the
marketing focus, etc. so I doubt they'd do that this late in the game.

>    I seem to get bugs about not being able to play some sounds sometime
>    from sequencer which confuses me;o

report them :-)

Joe

hhaving multiple oscillators per synth  DOES NOT equate polyphony 
polyphony = seperate voice, seperate playable individual filter per 
voice...if that's their explanation that's a tad bit weak...makes me 
scared to own a synth of theres if they don't understand that's not 
polyphony!:o

I don't really see them using any complex cpu stealing algorithms? 
the whole thing seems like some simple programming?(i could be wrong 
though?)

hehe :) i really wouldn't mind 6 polyphonic sids i think thatd' be 
badass, i really bought this ysnth cuz of the sid emulators

I do wish tho that there were more oscs for some of the synths...

pretty cool synth tho,  you really don't think it's a work in 
proggress synth?  I undrestand it's not beta anymore...but, ya never 
know?:o   i was thinking by os 2.0 it'd be fully finalizeD:)

i don't think adding polyphony would change the market of the 
synthesizer...nor take too much proccessing power!!!:)...come on for 
the price these are they gotta have some nice cpu in them!:)...i hope 
all the $ didn't go into marketing and cosmetics!!!:P (since they 
have a very good marketing and very good cosmetics for synth)

-ryan





--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 07:57:24AM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
> >    that'd be super lame if that was the explanation of the 24 
voice...
> >    maybe it's just not complete?
> 
> I doubt it. when people discuss polyphonic requests for the MnM, 
the reply
> from Elektron is usually "this is meant to primarily be a 
multitimbral
> monophonic synth".
> 
> anyway, the 24 voice thing makes sense to me; the same way that the 
MD
> being 16-voice polyphonic makes sense.
> 
> > it seems so far to be a moderately
> >    work in proggress synth, no?
> 
> maybe up until recently.  and I'm guessing they'll be making a few 
more
> additions in the near future.  but I doubt they'd be making such a 
major
> addition now that the units are actually being sold (i.e. non-beta 
units).
> such a feature would change the character of the MnM and change the
> marketing focus, etc. so I doubt they'd do that this late in the 
game.
> 
> >    I seem to get bugs about not being able to play some sounds 
sometime

> >    from sequencer which confuses me;o
> 
> report them :-)
> 
> Joe

at least i do believe that polyphony msut be able to ahve voices 
triggered independently no?

i got this expecting it to be 6 monosynths, but when i saw taht i was 
like 'hmmmm it's not complete it seems"

hopefully it isn't;D...at least they got speedy os updates.  1.2 
seemed pretty quick:D
--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "hal3001" <hal3001@y...> wrote:
> hhaving multiple oscillators per synth  DOES NOT equate polyphony 
> polyphony = seperate voice, seperate playable individual filter per 
> voice...if that's their explanation that's a tad bit weak...makes 
me 
> scared to own a synth of theres if they don't understand that's not 
> polyphony!:o
> 
> I don't really see them using any complex cpu stealing algorithms? 
> the whole thing seems like some simple programming?(i could be 
wrong 
> though?)
> 
> hehe :) i really wouldn't mind 6 polyphonic sids i think thatd' be 
> badass, i really bought this ysnth cuz of the sid emulators
> 
> I do wish tho that there were more oscs for some of the synths...
> 
> pretty cool synth tho,  you really don't think it's a work in 
> proggress synth?  I undrestand it's not beta anymore...but, ya 
never 
> know?:o   i was thinking by os 2.0 it'd be fully finalizeD:)
> 
> i don't think adding polyphony would change the market of the 
> synthesizer...nor take too much proccessing power!!!:)...come on 
for 
> the price these are they gotta have some nice cpu in them!:)...i 
hope 
> all the $ didn't go into marketing and cosmetics!!!:P (since they 
> have a very good marketing and very good cosmetics for synth)
> 
> -ryan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 07:57:24AM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
> > >    that'd be super lame if that was the explanation of the 24 
> voice...
> > >    maybe it's just not complete?
> > 
> > I doubt it. when people discuss polyphonic requests for the MnM, 
> the reply
> > from Elektron is usually "this is meant to primarily be a 
> multitimbral
> > monophonic synth".
> > 
> > anyway, the 24 voice thing makes sense to me; the same way that 
the 
> MD
> > being 16-voice polyphonic makes sense.
> > 
> > > it seems so far to be a moderately
> > >    work in proggress synth, no?
> > 
> > maybe up until recently.  and I'm guessing they'll be making a 
few 
> more
> > additions in the near future.  but I doubt they'd be making such 
a 
> major
> > addition now that the units are actually being sold (i.e. non-
beta 
> units).
> > such a feature would change the character of the MnM and change 
the

> > marketing focus, etc. so I doubt they'd do that this late in the 
> game.
> > 
> > >    I seem to get bugs about not being able to play some sounds 
> sometime
> > >    from sequencer which confuses me;o
> > 
> > report them :-)
> > 
> > Joe

On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 08:41:01AM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
>    hhaving multiple oscillators per synth  DOES NOT equate polyphony
>    polyphony = seperate voice, seperate playable individual filter per
>    voice...

yes I know. I'm only offering a possible explanation - I didn't say it
was the best one or even accurate.  mail Elektron and ask them.

>    I don't really see them using any complex cpu stealing algorithms?
>    the whole thing seems like some simple programming?(i could be wrong
>    though?)

I wouldn't know. I'm not a DSP programmer and I really need to brush up
on my FFT theory anyway. but honestly, if you think it's so simple I
should have to ask you: where's the synth you designed?

>    i don't think adding polyphony would change the market of the
>    synthesizer...nor take too much proccessing power!!!:)...come on for
>    the price these are they gotta have some nice cpu in them!:)...i hope
>    all the $ didn't go into marketing and cosmetics!!!:P (since they
>    have a very good marketing and very good cosmetics for synth)

read back through the archives. it seems a lot of money went to DSP chips
and excellent D/A converters.

Joe

"I wouldn't know. I'm not a DSP programmer and I really need to brush 
up
on my FFT theory anyway. but honestly, if you think it's so simple I
should have to ask you: where's the synth you designed? "

I don't have the time to design a synth, that's what it takes a lot

well if they spent a lot on the dsps, at least that much you can buy 
a lot now...then i DO definately believe they can fit more than an fx 
engine + 6 monosynths on 2 dsps.


I also think the higher price is because of sweden's ecnomoy in 
general.  things simply cost more there.  

it definately is solid built though i think a lot of money went into 
the look+the sturdiness of the unit.  I didn't expect it to be as 
heavy as it was for how small it was!!:)

The thing i ask about how much the DSP can do is, did elektron not 
start out as a student project of the sidstation that furthered 
itself to a fully sellable synth?  sweden might have very educational 
technical schools.  but to write really nice clean code  takes a lot 
of knowledge.   i'm curious to how many years the programmers have 
had experience.  


often you'll note that a programmer from the "old school" will write 
much more efficient programs utilizing cpu, than newer programmers.

think of how much they did with the proccesser cpaabiltiies of an NES 
or an atari even.  i don't think it's much to ask for polyphony when 
the programmming was much more condensed, no?(unlessi t's samples, 
then i want the nes samples on my monomachine!O_O),  if that 
technology was available back 10 and 20 years ago, to pretty much get 
the same soundn as the monomachine has, then i don't see why they 
couldn't make it polpyonic...do you now how much more dsp power there 
is more in the monomachine? heheh it's gotta be a crazy amount, or 
they'd be selling for $100-200 a pop...


perhaps because some of the synths are more emulation than doing the 
thing that the older synths did is the reason? hmmm:)

i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just curious and i think there 
can be a lot more done than there has been....:)
-ryan
 
--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 08:41:01AM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
> >    hhaving multiple oscillators per synth  DOES NOT equate 
polyphony
> >    polyphony = seperate voice, seperate playable individual 
filter per
> >    voice...
> 
> yes I know. I'm only offering a possible explanation - I didn't say 
it
> was the best one or even accurate.  mail Elektron and ask them.
> 
> >    I don't really see them using any complex cpu stealing 
algorithms?
> >    the whole thing seems like some simple programming?(i could be 
wrong
> >    though?)
> 
> I wouldn't know. I'm not a DSP programmer and I really need to 
brush up
> on my FFT theory anyway. but honestly, if you think it's so simple I
> should have to ask you: where's the synth you designed?
> 
> >    i don't think adding polyphony would change the market of the
> >    synthesizer...nor take too much proccessing power!!!:)...come 
on for
> >    the price these are they gotta have some nice cpu in 
them!:)...i hope
> >    all the $ didn't go into marketing and cosmetics!!!:P (since 
they
> >    have a very good marketing and very good cosmetics for synth)
> 
> read back through the archives. it seems a lot of money went to DSP 
chips

> and excellent D/A converters.
> 
> Joe

On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
>    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just curious and i think there
>    can be a lot more done than there has been....:)

I don't know. there's simply too much speculation going on. if you want to
know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
2) which components received the highest portion of the build cost
3) whether they are good or bad programmers

and then, based on the answers to these questions, you can decide whether
or not the machine they designed is capable of polyphony.

Joe

It does say MONOMACHINE doesn't it? Mono means one?
yeah, ok. 

So, are the sounds and sequencer hot enough for the
price? dunno yet but soon will. You can't rely on one
synth to be your main one. :)

Lates!


-Auto


--- Joe <jmelnyk@...> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001
> wrote:
> >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just
> curious and i think there
> >    can be a lot more done than there has
> been....:)
> 
> I don't know. there's simply too much speculation
> going on. if you want to
> know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> 2) which components received the highest portion of
> the build cost
> 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
> 
> and then, based on the answers to these questions,
> you can decide whether
> or not the machine they designed is capable of
> polyphony.
> 
> Joe
> 


__________________________________
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On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 11:46:18AM -0800, Automatic Panic wrote:
>    It does say MONOMACHINE doesn't it? Mono means one?
>    yeah, ok.
>    So, are the sounds and sequencer hot enough for the
>    price? dunno yet but soon will. You can't rely on one
>    synth to be your main one. :)

my point exactly.

(and yes, the sounds and sequencer are very worth the price)

Joe

i'd love to see ANY company that'd answer ANY of these questions 
truthfully:
"I don't know. there's simply too much speculation going on. if you 
want to
know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
2) which components received the highest portion of the build cost
3) whether they are good or bad programmers"

on the sounds worth it, i'd say NO they aren ot worth the price, but 
the se quencer is incredible.  i'm not sure if that equates the price 
though.  I think if your'e using it as a sound module it's definately 
not worth the money.  but combine the whole package...:) and maybe 
it's worth more?  

i think the sound section is very softsynthish, with better outputs, 
but the sequencer is what makes it real nice.  

again i'm more into psychedelic sounds.   I remember the sid really 
made some nice psychedelic osunds..  this thing makes great nes type 
sounds, and c64...:)...real fun for that

hey i have a question, is anyone NOT making idm, or idmish electro 
with this unit?  

;)  

on the whoel "it's named monomachine so it should be monophonic"....  
why's it say 24 voice on the box?!?!?! hehehe....that therein lies 
the problem!



--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
> >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just curious and i think 
there
> >    can be a lot more done than there has been....:)
> 
> I don't know. there's simply too much speculation going on. if you 
want to
> know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> 2) which components received the highest portion of the build cost
> 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
> 
> and then, based on the answers to these questions, you can decide 
whether

> or not the machine they designed is capable of polyphony.
> 
> Joe

are the sounds worth the price for the table top
version? 


--- hal3001 <hal3001@...> wrote:
> i'd love to see ANY company that'd answer ANY of
> these questions 
> truthfully:
> "I don't know. there's simply too much speculation
> going on. if you 
> want to
> know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> 2) which components received the highest portion of
> the build cost
> 3) whether they are good or bad programmers"
> 
> on the sounds worth it, i'd say NO they aren ot
> worth the price, but 
> the se quencer is incredible.  i'm not sure if that
> equates the price 
> though.  I think if your'e using it as a sound
> module it's definately 
> not worth the money.  but combine the whole
> package...:) and maybe 
> it's worth more?  
> 
> i think the sound section is very softsynthish, with
> better outputs, 
> but the sequencer is what makes it real nice.  
> 
> again i'm more into psychedelic sounds.   I remember
> the sid really 
> made some nice psychedelic osunds..  this thing
> makes great nes type 
> sounds, and c64...:)...real fun for that
> 
> hey i have a question, is anyone NOT making idm, or
> idmish electro 
> with this unit?  
> 
> ;)  
> 
> on the whoel "it's named monomachine so it should be
> monophonic"....  
> why's it say 24 voice on the box?!?!?!
> hehehe....that therein lies 
> the problem!
> 
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe
> <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001
> wrote:
> > >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just
> curious and i think 
> there
> > >    can be a lot more done than there has
> been....:)
> > 
> > I don't know. there's simply too much speculation
> going on. if you 
> want to
> > know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> > 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> > 2) which components received the highest portion
> of the build cost
> > 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
> > 
> > and then, based on the answers to these questions,
> you can decide 
> whether
> > or not the machine they designed is capable of
> polyphony.
> > 
> > Joe
> 
> 


__________________________________
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they're the same sounds that are in the keyboard version.

honestly it's if it is what your'e into.  if u want the sid sound, 
and  want more than 2 of em for 1350 i think this is your only 
option:)

i tihnk it's more useful to use it as a sequencer than control 
externally,  as it's an EXCELLENt sequencer, extremely intuitive and 
it's like the 303,i it gives it it's characteristic sound and yo ucan 
do all that Video game music!:) hehehe...

it's pretty cool, and you can get a reALy REALY REALLY REALLY REALY 
ripping bassline by using hte beatbox sample repeat.....repeat audio 
level...sounds soo slick...

 i just wish there was a warmer filter, it sounds almost like an akai 
filter...heheh...even tho that's a very popular filter for techno.

-ryan

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Automatic Panic 
<thesoundzoneinfo@y...> wrote:

> are the sounds worth the price for the table top
> version? 
> 
> 
> --- hal3001 <hal3001@y...> wrote:
> > i'd love to see ANY company that'd answer ANY of
> > these questions 
> > truthfully:
> > "I don't know. there's simply too much speculation
> > going on. if you 
> > want to
> > know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> > 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> > 2) which components received the highest portion of
> > the build cost
> > 3) whether they are good or bad programmers"
> > 
> > on the sounds worth it, i'd say NO they aren ot
> > worth the price, but 
> > the se quencer is incredible.  i'm not sure if that
> > equates the price 
> > though.  I think if your'e using it as a sound
> > module it's definately 
> > not worth the money.  but combine the whole
> > package...:) and maybe 
> > it's worth more?  
> > 
> > i think the sound section is very softsynthish, with
> > better outputs, 
> > but the sequencer is what makes it real nice.  
> > 
> > again i'm more into psychedelic sounds.   I remember
> > the sid really 
> > made some nice psychedelic osunds..  this thing
> > makes great nes type 
> > sounds, and c64...:)...real fun for that
> > 
> > hey i have a question, is anyone NOT making idm, or
> > idmish electro 
> > with this unit?  
> > 
> > ;)  
> > 
> > on the whoel "it's named monomachine so it should be
> > monophonic"....  
> > why's it say 24 voice on the box?!?!?!
> > hehehe....that therein lies 
> > the problem!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe
> > <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001
> > wrote:
> > > >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just
> > curious and i think 
> > there
> > > >    can be a lot more done than there has
> > been....:)
> > > 
> > > I don't know. there's simply too much speculation
> > going on. if you 
> > want to
> > > know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> > > 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> > > 2) which components received the highest portion
> > of the build cost
> > > 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
> > > 
> > > and then, based on the answers to these questions,
> > you can decide 
> > whether
> > > or not the machine they designed is capable of
> > polyphony.
> > > 
> > > Joe
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
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uuhh...mono machine...one machine...all in one 
machine...hmmmm....maybe its name doesnt mean that it has one voice 
but that its one machine that can do it all....glad I thought of 
that ;)

-Pas

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Automatic Panic 
<thesoundzoneinfo@y...> wrote:

> It does say MONOMACHINE doesn't it? Mono means one?
> yeah, ok. 
> 
> So, are the sounds and sequencer hot enough for the
> price? dunno yet but soon will. You can't rely on one
> synth to be your main one. :)
> 
> Lates!
> 
> 
> -Auto
> 
> 
> --- Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001
> > wrote:
> > >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just
> > curious and i think there
> > >    can be a lot more done than there has
> > been....:)
> > 
> > I don't know. there's simply too much speculation
> > going on. if you want to
> > know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> > 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> > 2) which components received the highest portion of
> > the build cost
> > 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
> > 
> > and then, based on the answers to these questions,
> > you can decide whether
> > or not the machine they designed is capable of
> > polyphony.
> > 
> > Joe
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

haha good one but can it really do all n one? that is
the question. ;)

--- technoweeniepas <heitert@...> wrote:
> uuhh...mono machine...one machine...all in one 
> machine...hmmmm....maybe its name doesnt mean that
> it has one voice 
> but that its one machine that can do it all....glad
> I thought of 
> that ;)
> 
> -Pas
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Automatic
> Panic 
> <thesoundzoneinfo@y...> wrote:
> > It does say MONOMACHINE doesn't it? Mono means
> one?
> > yeah, ok. 
> > 
> > So, are the sounds and sequencer hot enough for
> the
> > price? dunno yet but soon will. You can't rely on
> one
> > synth to be your main one. :)
> > 
> > Lates!
> > 
> > 
> > -Auto
> > 
> > 
> > --- Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000,
> hal3001
> > > wrote:
> > > >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just
> > > curious and i think there
> > > >    can be a lot more done than there has
> > > been....:)
> > > 
> > > I don't know. there's simply too much
> speculation
> > > going on. if you want to
> > > know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> > > 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> > > 2) which components received the highest portion
> of
> > > the build cost
> > > 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
> > > 
> > > and then, based on the answers to these
> questions,
> > > you can decide whether
> > > or not the machine they designed is capable of
> > > polyphony.
> > > 
> > > Joe
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> online.
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

Hi Hal,

I¹m currently making ChipTune - MicroMusic songs
(http://www.mckenic.com/mp3.html) and am also planning to use the MM as
backing for my Acoustic Guitar / Vocal tracks.

Cheers,
    Dave

on 15/02/2004 20:54, hal3001 at hal3001@... wrote:

>
> hey i have a question, is anyone NOT making idm, or idmish electro
> with this unit?

Hey this is great! Is this all monomachine? and is that the VO synth
actually singing the song, if so that¹s amazing :)

On 2/16/04 11:12 AM, "Dave" wrote:

> Hi Hal,
> 
> I¹m currently making ChipTune - MicroMusic songs
> (http://www.mckenic.com/mp3.html) and am also planning to use the MM as
> backing for my Acoustic Guitar / Vocal tracks.
> 
> Cheers,
>   Dave
> 
> on 15/02/2004 20:54, hal3001 at hal3001@... wrote:
>> 
>> hey i have a question, is anyone NOT making idm, or idmish electro
>> with this unit? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

From what I read it can do just about everything I need :)  But I am 
not one of the fortunate ones that can afford it.  So untill I win 
the lottery I will have to be content with my SidStation...

-Pas

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Automatic Panic 
<thesoundzoneinfo@y...> wrote:

> haha good one but can it really do all n one? that is
> the question. ;)
> 
> --- technoweeniepas <heitert@h...> wrote:
> > uuhh...mono machine...one machine...all in one 
> > machine...hmmmm....maybe its name doesnt mean that
> > it has one voice 
> > but that its one machine that can do it all....glad
> > I thought of 
> > that ;)
> > 
> > -Pas
> > 
> > --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Automatic
> > Panic 
> > <thesoundzoneinfo@y...> wrote:
> > > It does say MONOMACHINE doesn't it? Mono means
> > one?
> > > yeah, ok. 
> > > 
> > > So, are the sounds and sequencer hot enough for
> > the
> > > price? dunno yet but soon will. You can't rely on
> > one
> > > synth to be your main one. :)
> > > 
> > > Lates!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -Auto
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000,
> > hal3001
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just
> > > > curious and i think there
> > > > >    can be a lot more done than there has
> > > > been....:)
> > > > 
> > > > I don't know. there's simply too much
> > speculation
> > > > going on. if you want to
> > > > know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> > > > 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> > > > 2) which components received the highest portion
> > of
> > > > the build cost
> > > > 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
> > > > 
> > > > and then, based on the answers to these
> > questions,
> > > > you can decide whether
> > > > or not the machine they designed is capable of
> > > > polyphony.
> > > > 
> > > > Joe
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing
> > online.
> > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

About us having talked about up to 24 voices of polyphony, that refers
to the ensemble synth being able to do up to 6x4 voices. We're not
pushing that anymore and it will be removed from the boxes when we can
afford to make new printing blocks, as this can confuse (as we've seen
in here now). I'd say it's true though, just as the Poly 800 was
polyphonic even though it didn't individual channels. Let's don't get
stuck on that though, let's agree that the Monomachine is up to 6
voices of polyphony when normally used. The Monomachine is not about
quantity, it's about quality, and we don't use that kind of marketing
anymore for it.

With the Monomachine we have chosen not to go the common way for
synthesizers, because we think it's boring to do the same thing over
again. If you want the maximum number of analogue imitation you should
look elsewhere. The Monomachine is going its own path, and its
strengths are different from what you might compare it to.

Look below for some replies:

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
> >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just curious and i think there
> >    can be a lot more done than there has been....:)
> 
> I don't know. there's simply too much speculation going on. if you
want to
> know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine

The Monomachine has more DSP power than you'll find in most
contemporary synthesizers. So what have we used it for?

1) Quality in the sound generation. For example, the SuperWAVE uses a
technology that synthese the sound without producing _any_ alias. This
is very uncommon for digital synthesizers. The SID is using the same
sound generation with an extremely fast counter for phase accumulation
oscillation for the special SID sound, including the ring mod and sync.

2) Very high quality filters which are using 56 bit internal calculations.

3) A flexible routing system. Have you noticed you can route any track
into the effect input of another? Have you thought about what takes to
do this? All the effects need to be applied in stereo. If you put a
chorus output into the input of another track, the filter will be
applied to each channel, preserving the stereo image.

4) The track effects are "always there". You do not need the hassle to
assign an EQ or a delay to a certain track, and finally run out of them.

> 2) which components received the highest portion of the build cost

We haven't saved pennies where they usually are. All parts are the
best we could find, including the op-amps, da-converters, the speed of
the memory for the DSP's (slow memory can easily half the performance
of the DSP's), memory size for the DSP's which allows us to have many
different synthesis and effects machines, all the interface stuff like
keys and leds. Notice that all the keys of the mono are "real keys",
and not the clicky types that is simply a small bubble on the
interface board (like you'll find on remote controls etc) and that
will wear down over time. All the LED's shine with a steady light
instead of being interlaced, which makes them shine clearer and
without flickering in the corner of your eye. This forces us to have
more powerful power supplies. The box uses different material like
aluminium and plastic which makes it much more expensive, but keeps
its own look. The dividing lines on the interface are cut out instead
of simply being printed, the printing of the interface plate is
multi-colored and anodized, and can never be worn out. The joystick
pin of the keyboard is hand-made, and so is the small leather ring
underneath it. The keyboard and the leds and keys around it is crammed
into a very tight space to get the compact look, which makes it more
complicated to produce.

The Monomachine (and Machinedrum) is very much filled with details
that you might not care about, but care is taken in all corners to
make it stand out from the rest. We produce lower numbers of synths
(hopefully for the ones that really care) which makes in more
expensive, and all fixed setup costs more expensive. The production
cost of the Monomachine is probably higher than any other synthesizer
you'll find, and without doubt higher in percentage of the end user
price than any other synth you'll find.

You can be absolutely certain that we've set the lowest price we could
ever do. Then it is up to you to decide whether it is worth it for
you, or if you want to go for something else.

> 3) whether they are good or bad programmers

As for the guy questioning our knowledge in sound programming, and
thought it should be possible to cram more voices out of the DSP's:
The DSP's in both the Machinedrum and the Monomachine are loaded to
far above what anyone teaching realtime systems would ever suggest.
Our background are from the home computer hacking era where full
optimisation is a virtue, and we would never leave anything if we felt
we could do it better. Plus we generally have 4+ years of masters
education in computer science or physics. You can be sure we know our
stuff.

It really doesn't feel very useful to try to convince everyone that
this is the product for you. It will be for a certain number of
people, for whom the love, dedication and direction we have chosen
makes a difference. For others other products will be the best. Lets
face it, for the majority of aspiring musicians a copy of Reason would
be the best solution. Time will tell if we made the right choice
developing a razor knife for the pioneering musicians that want
dynamic realtime control over special sounding state-of-the-art synthesis.

...but don't come tell me we didn't know what we were doing! :)

Daniel

Thank you Daniel! :)

I think it'll be worht the price as well. My MD is
worth the price that I paid for it. Damn thing is
sturdy as hell and sounds AWESOME! :)

I'm glad that the MM is'nt trying to sound or be like
any other synth on the market cause I want something
that takes me to the future and not so much the past
:)

Elektron support is also AWESOME! Where else can you
get this kind of support from any other corp? Elektron
is number one in my book, why you think I am selling
all my other gear to get me a MM and I cant wait to
see what other cool things that Elektron has in store
for us :)

-Auto

--- daniel_elektron <daniel@...> wrote:
> 
> About us having talked about up to 24 voices of
> polyphony, that refers
> to the ensemble synth being able to do up to 6x4
> voices. We're not
> pushing that anymore and it will be removed from the
> boxes when we can
> afford to make new printing blocks, as this can
> confuse (as we've seen
> in here now). I'd say it's true though, just as the
> Poly 800 was
> polyphonic even though it didn't individual
> channels. Let's don't get
> stuck on that though, let's agree that the
> Monomachine is up to 6
> voices of polyphony when normally used. The
> Monomachine is not about
> quantity, it's about quality, and we don't use that
> kind of marketing
> anymore for it.
> 
> With the Monomachine we have chosen not to go the
> common way for
> synthesizers, because we think it's boring to do the
> same thing over
> again. If you want the maximum number of analogue
> imitation you should
> look elsewhere. The Monomachine is going its own
> path, and its
> strengths are different from what you might compare
> it to.
> 
> Look below for some replies:
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe
> <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001
> wrote:
> > >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just
> curious and i think there
> > >    can be a lot more done than there has
> been....:)
> > 
> > I don't know. there's simply too much speculation
> going on. if you
> want to
> > know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> > 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
> 
> The Monomachine has more DSP power than you'll find
> in most
> contemporary synthesizers. So what have we used it
> for?
> 
> 1) Quality in the sound generation. For example, the
> SuperWAVE uses a
> technology that synthese the sound without producing
> _any_ alias. This
> is very uncommon for digital synthesizers. The SID
> is using the same
> sound generation with an extremely fast counter for
> phase accumulation
> oscillation for the special SID sound, including the
> ring mod and sync.
> 
> 2) Very high quality filters which are using 56 bit
> internal calculations.
> 
> 3) A flexible routing system. Have you noticed you
> can route any track
> into the effect input of another? Have you thought
> about what takes to
> do this? All the effects need to be applied in
> stereo. If you put a
> chorus output into the input of another track, the
> filter will be
> applied to each channel, preserving the stereo
> image.
> 
> 4) The track effects are "always there". You do not
> need the hassle to
> assign an EQ or a delay to a certain track, and
> finally run out of them.
> 
> > 2) which components received the highest portion
> of the build cost
> 
> We haven't saved pennies where they usually are. All
> parts are the
> best we could find, including the op-amps,
> da-converters, the speed of
> the memory for the DSP's (slow memory can easily
> half the performance
> of the DSP's), memory size for the DSP's which
> allows us to have many
> different synthesis and effects machines, all the
> interface stuff like
> keys and leds. Notice that all the keys of the mono
> are "real keys",
> and not the clicky types that is simply a small
> bubble on the
> interface board (like you'll find on remote controls
> etc) and that
> will wear down over time. All the LED's shine with a
> steady light
> instead of being interlaced, which makes them shine
> clearer and
> without flickering in the corner of your eye. This
> forces us to have
> more powerful power supplies. The box uses different
> material like
> aluminium and plastic which makes it much more
> expensive, but keeps
> its own look. The dividing lines on the interface
> are cut out instead
> of simply being printed, the printing of the
> interface plate is
> multi-colored and anodized, and can never be worn
> out. The joystick
> pin of the keyboard is hand-made, and so is the
> small leather ring
> underneath it. The keyboard and the leds and keys
> around it is crammed
> into a very tight space to get the compact look,
> which makes it more
> complicated to produce.
> 
> The Monomachine (and Machinedrum) is very much
> filled with details
> that you might not care about, but care is taken in
> all corners to
> make it stand out from the rest. We produce lower
> numbers of synths
> (hopefully for the ones that really care) which
> makes in more
> expensive, and all fixed setup costs more expensive.
> The production
> cost of the Monomachine is probably higher than any
> other synthesizer
> you'll find, and without doubt higher in percentage
> of the end user
> price than any other synth you'll find.
> 
> You can be absolutely certain that we've set the
> lowest price we could
> ever do. Then it is up to you to decide whether it
> is worth it for
> you, or if you want to go for something else.
> 
> > 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
> 
> As for the guy questioning our knowledge in sound
> programming, and
> thought it should be possible to cram more voices
> out of the DSP's:
> The DSP's in both the Machinedrum and the
> Monomachine are loaded to
> far above what anyone teaching realtime systems
> would ever suggest.
> Our background are from the home computer hacking
> era where full
> optimisation is a virtue, and we would never leave
> anything if we felt
> we could do it better. Plus we generally have 4+
> years of masters
> education in computer science or physics. You can be
> sure we know our
> stuff.
> 
> It really doesn't feel very useful to try to
> convince everyone that
> this is the product for you. It will be for a
> certain number of
> people, for whom the love, dedication and direction
> we have chosen
> makes a difference. For others other products will
> be the best. Lets
> face it, for the majority of aspiring musicians a
> copy of Reason would
> be the best solution. Time will tell if we made the
> right choice
> developing a razor knife for the pioneering
> musicians that want
> dynamic realtime control over special sounding
> state-of-the-art synthesis.
> 
> ...but don't come tell me we didn't know what we
> were doing! :)
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

On 2/16/04 5:09 PM, "Automatic Panic" wrote:

> Thank you Daniel! :)


Yes I agree, that was a nice little peak into how you guys went about
designing the mono.


> Elektron support is also AWESOME! Where else can you
> get this kind of support from any other corp?

Access :)

-andy

nice! :) 

--- Andy Tarpinian <evildead@...> wrote:
> On 2/16/04 5:09 PM, "Automatic Panic" wrote:
> 
> > Thank you Daniel! :)
> 
> 
> Yes I agree, that was a nice little peak into how
> you guys went about
> designing the mono.
> 
> 
> > Elektron support is also AWESOME! Where else can
> you
> > get this kind of support from any other corp?
> 
> Access :)
> 
> -andy
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 05:35:38PM -0500, Andy Tarpinian wrote:
>    Yes I agree, that was a nice little peak into how you guys went about
>    designing the mono.

I agree; it was very informative and further reinforced my belief that
Elektron is an incredible company. hopefully, it also answered the
original party's questioning of Elektron's motives, decisions,
abilities and knowledge.

Joe

alleluia tell them Daniel.
That discussion about the voices was the most boring one!

>From: "daniel_elektron" <daniel@...>
>Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [elektron] hey why's my monomachine box say 24 voice?:P
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:57:24 -0000
>
>
>About us having talked about up to 24 voices of polyphony, that refers
>to the ensemble synth being able to do up to 6x4 voices. We're not
>pushing that anymore and it will be removed from the boxes when we can
>afford to make new printing blocks, as this can confuse (as we've seen
>in here now). I'd say it's true though, just as the Poly 800 was
>polyphonic even though it didn't individual channels. Let's don't get
>stuck on that though, let's agree that the Monomachine is up to 6
>voices of polyphony when normally used. The Monomachine is not about
>quantity, it's about quality, and we don't use that kind of marketing
>anymore for it.
>
>With the Monomachine we have chosen not to go the common way for
>synthesizers, because we think it's boring to do the same thing over
>again. If you want the maximum number of analogue imitation you should
>look elsewhere. The Monomachine is going its own path, and its
>strengths are different from what you might compare it to.
>
>Look below for some replies:
>
>--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 06:45:59PM -0000, hal3001 wrote:
> > >    i'm not trying to bash elektron, i'm just curious and i think there
> > >    can be a lot more done than there has been....:)
> >
> > I don't know. there's simply too much speculation going on. if you
>want to
> > know these things, mail Elektron and ask them:
> > 1) how much DSP power is in the Monomachine
>
>The Monomachine has more DSP power than you'll find in most
>contemporary synthesizers. So what have we used it for?
>
>1) Quality in the sound generation. For example, the SuperWAVE uses a
>technology that synthese the sound without producing _any_ alias. This
>is very uncommon for digital synthesizers. The SID is using the same
>sound generation with an extremely fast counter for phase accumulation
>oscillation for the special SID sound, including the ring mod and sync.
>
>2) Very high quality filters which are using 56 bit internal calculations.
>
>3) A flexible routing system. Have you noticed you can route any track
>into the effect input of another? Have you thought about what takes to
>do this? All the effects need to be applied in stereo. If you put a
>chorus output into the input of another track, the filter will be
>applied to each channel, preserving the stereo image.
>
>4) The track effects are "always there". You do not need the hassle to
>assign an EQ or a delay to a certain track, and finally run out of them.
>
> > 2) which components received the highest portion of the build cost
>
>We haven't saved pennies where they usually are. All parts are the
>best we could find, including the op-amps, da-converters, the speed of
>the memory for the DSP's (slow memory can easily half the performance
>of the DSP's), memory size for the DSP's which allows us to have many
>different synthesis and effects machines, all the interface stuff like
>keys and leds. Notice that all the keys of the mono are "real keys",
>and not the clicky types that is simply a small bubble on the
>interface board (like you'll find on remote controls etc) and that
>will wear down over time. All the LED's shine with a steady light
>instead of being interlaced, which makes them shine clearer and
>without flickering in the corner of your eye. This forces us to have
>more powerful power supplies. The box uses different material like
>aluminium and plastic which makes it much more expensive, but keeps
>its own look. The dividing lines on the interface are cut out instead
>of simply being printed, the printing of the interface plate is
>multi-colored and anodized, and can never be worn out. The joystick
>pin of the keyboard is hand-made, and so is the small leather ring
>underneath it. The keyboard and the leds and keys around it is crammed
>into a very tight space to get the compact look, which makes it more
>complicated to produce.
>
>The Monomachine (and Machinedrum) is very much filled with details
>that you might not care about, but care is taken in all corners to
>make it stand out from the rest. We produce lower numbers of synths
>(hopefully for the ones that really care) which makes in more
>expensive, and all fixed setup costs more expensive. The production
>cost of the Monomachine is probably higher than any other synthesizer
>you'll find, and without doubt higher in percentage of the end user
>price than any other synth you'll find.
>
>You can be absolutely certain that we've set the lowest price we could
>ever do. Then it is up to you to decide whether it is worth it for
>you, or if you want to go for something else.
>
> > 3) whether they are good or bad programmers
>
>As for the guy questioning our knowledge in sound programming, and
>thought it should be possible to cram more voices out of the DSP's:
>The DSP's in both the Machinedrum and the Monomachine are loaded to
>far above what anyone teaching realtime systems would ever suggest.
>Our background are from the home computer hacking era where full
>optimisation is a virtue, and we would never leave anything if we felt
>we could do it better. Plus we generally have 4+ years of masters
>education in computer science or physics. You can be sure we know our
>stuff.
>
>It really doesn't feel very useful to try to convince everyone that
>this is the product for you. It will be for a certain number of
>people, for whom the love, dedication and direction we have chosen
>makes a difference. For others other products will be the best. Lets
>face it, for the majority of aspiring musicians a copy of Reason would
>be the best solution. Time will tell if we made the right choice
>developing a razor knife for the pioneering musicians that want
>dynamic realtime control over special sounding state-of-the-art synthesis.
>
>...but don't come tell me we didn't know what we were doing! :)
>
>Daniel
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection 
http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband

> > Elektron support is also AWESOME! Where else can you
> > get this kind of support from any other corp?
> 
> Access :)
> 
> -andy

Yea, Access has has Marc or Ben but you dont get Daniel.  I think 
comparatively Elektron has Access beat on the support.  It's smaller 
and not everyone into the music are using Elektron gear.