EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

I'm a bit confused about the RAM usage in Logic as concerns the EXS 
(and I suppose the other instruments).  I have a song file that has 
two instances of the EXS24, and one instance of EVP88.  I have turn 
on the virtual memory option in the EXS24, but Logic is hogging 225M 
of RAM, despite my having set it to 100M in the Get Info.

How actually is Logic allocating space?  Does it gobble up more every 
time a new instrument is added? I don't know, but 225M seems like a 
lot of space for Logic and 3 instruments.  One EXS has a drum kit 
(the NS7 free), and the other has a Factory Bank Finger Bass.  I 
thought I had enabled disk streaming (or however it's called) in the 
EXS options, but now I wonder if I have to do this every time I call 
up an instance of the EXS.

Well, I could just buy more RAM, but I'd like to understand how this 
works first.  Any ideas?  If it helps, I'm running a G4 
AGP/400/upgraded to 1.2Ghz with 384M RAM under OS 9.2.2.

Regards,
Lenny
-- 
==========================================================================
  Lenny Stearns                                      lens@...
  Alexandria, Virginia
==========================================================================

At 10:07 AM 07/05/2004, you wrote:
>I'm a bit confused about the RAM usage in Logic as concerns the EXS
>(and I suppose the other instruments)...How actually is Logic allocating 
>space?  Does it gobble up more every
>time a new instrument is added?

With disk streaming on, EXS still must load the sample heads into RAM. The 
sizes of these instruments vary wildly, and the sizes of the sample heads 
will vary based on the hard drive usage designation you set in the EXS 
preferences. Faster hard drives can load smaller sample heads.

>Well, I could just buy more RAM, but I'd like to understand how this
>works first.  Any ideas?  If it helps, I'm running a G4
>AGP/400/upgraded to 1.2Ghz with 384M RAM under OS 9.2.2.

Definitely buy more RAM if you plan to use EXS on a regular 
basis---especially if you plan to use any of the monstrous orchestral 
libraries. On my OS9 system, a single VSL performance-legato woodwind 
instrument can use up 160 meg of RAM with disk streaming on. (Can't wait 
for that new G5 to get here!)

On a fine day, 05-07-2004, Lenny Stearns wrote:

>How actually is Logic allocating space?  Does it gobble up more every
>time a new instrument is added?

Yes. The space you allocate to Logic (in OS9) is just the program 
space.  The EXS uses non-program RAM to do its thing.  SO if you load 
up many heavy EXS instruments, you'll see Logic's RAM usage go up. 
Other virtual instruments might do the same, or they might just use 
Logic's allocated space, dependant on design of the plug-in.  Most 
use Logic's own space, if I remember correctly.  So you always have 
to find a balance between giving Logic itself enough RAM and leaving 
enough for the EXS to function properly.  In OS X this shouldn't be 
an issue.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra <h@k...> wrote:

> 
> Yes. The space you allocate to Logic (in OS9) is just the program 
> space.  The EXS uses non-program RAM to do its thing.  SO if you load 
> up many heavy EXS instruments, you'll see Logic's RAM usage go up. 

Thank you, this can be very helpful. I am battling a project, where I
got alot of Out of Memory error messages when opening EXS24 instances
or adding new plugins. So far solution has been bouncing a couple of
instruments, and removing the plugins. I could not figure why, as I
have 1 G RAM, and the song was only using 640 MB of memory. There are
still 300 something left unused. And I don't use large multisamples
etc, all my samples are usually created for the song (cut up
loops/soundscapes/etc), maybe one or two multivelocity/multizone EXSes
(far below 100 MB)

Also, even if Logic is assigned 512 MB ram, the about memory dialog
shows that Logic (for example) is using 640 out of allocated 960 MB..? 

So the solution is in fact the other way around - lowering the program
memory for Logic, to leave space for EXS samples?

Or is this because of a high number of audio files/very much
programming/automation? 

This on 9.2.2, 1 Ghz Powerbook with 1 G RAM, Motu 828 MK2

On a fine day, 10-07-2004, kiotozane wrote:

>Also, even if Logic is assigned 512 MB ram, the about memory dialog
>shows that Logic (for example) is using 640 out of allocated 960 MB..?
>
>So the solution is in fact the other way around - lowering the program
>memory for Logic, to leave space for EXS samples?

I usually assign some 200 MB to Logic, and this has always worked for 
me.  The EXS takes what it needs from the memory left over.  So yes, 
I would try giving Logic less memory instead of more.

>Or is this because of a high number of audio files/very much
>programming/automation?

All programming and automation hardly take up space, so that 
shouldn't be a reason to assign lots of ram to Logic.  The only 
reason to increase the memory assignment, is when you have a 
memory-hungry plug-in that uses Logic's own memory space. 
Steinberg's LM-4 is such a plug-in: if it doesn't have enough memory 
it simply doesn't load all required samples -- which is a clear 
indicator that Logic should get more memory.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

On 7/11/04 3:35 AM, "Hendrik Jan Veenstra" <h@...> wrote:

>> Also, even if Logic is assigned 512 MB ram, the about memory dialog
>> shows that Logic (for example) is using 640 out of allocated 960 MB..?


I'm getting in on this thread late, and this may have been said already.
EXS24 uses Logic's RAM for handling samples. If you have up to the maximum
RAM Mac OS 9 can handle (1.5GB) and want Logic/EXS24 to access as much RAM
as it can, set your Preferred Size of memory to just over half a gig. Then,
it'll see and use what it needs. My preferred RAM for Logic in OS 9 is set
to 500427KB.

Remember that apps in OS 9 expand their RAM usage as needed. They'll start
below the preferred memory, and then expand as you load instruments. So,
maybe it's only using the 640MB because that's all you have loaded.

Another DUMB thing about "Mac OS Old" (versus Mac OS X) is that applications
can ONLY access your RAM CONTIGUOUSLY! So, if you load in Logic first and,
although it is set beyond 500MB in its preferred memory, it may only be
taking say 100MB and then you simply load in the Calculator, the Calculator
will BLOCK LOGIC from accessing further RAM. OS 9 deals with RAM in SOLID
chunks per app. Mac OS old cannot "jump" across the RAM used by the
Calculator to grant Logic access to more RAM BEYOND the Calculator. As a
matter of fact, when you boot Mac OS Old, it ALL gets loaded at ONE END of
the RAM. The apps start loading at THE OTHER END, one atop another.

So, always load your memory stable apps first (calculator, email app,
instant messenger etc.) and RAM hogs LAST (like Logic and Photoshop and web
browsers).


MacDuff

I've been getting a lot of freezing and crashing lately (OS9.2) and this
explanation is fascinating.  I tried your suggestion and, so far, no
crashes.

Re:  Calculator blocking LOGIC from accessing further RAM.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your explanation correctly.  Do you mean that
if you load a "RAM hog" application like Logic or Photoshop, then open a
"low RAM" application, the larger application can't expand RAM further?

Dan 

   


maybe it's only using the 640MB because that's all you have loaded.

> 
> Another DUMB thing about "Mac OS Old" (versus Mac OS X) is that applications
> can ONLY access your RAM CONTIGUOUSLY! So, if you load in Logic first and,
> although it is set beyond 500MB in its preferred memory, it may only be
> taking say 100MB and then you simply load in the Calculator, the Calculator
> will BLOCK LOGIC from accessing further RAM. OS 9 deals with RAM in SOLID
> chunks per app. Mac OS old cannot "jump" across the RAM used by the
> Calculator to grant Logic access to more RAM BEYOND the Calculator. As a
> matter of fact, when you boot Mac OS Old, it ALL gets loaded at ONE END of
> the RAM. The apps start loading at THE OTHER END, one atop another.
> 
> So, always load your memory stable apps first (calculator, email app,
> instant messenger etc.) and RAM hogs LAST (like Logic and Photoshop and web
> browsers).
> 
> 
> MacDuff

On 7/12/04 12:13 PM, "Dan Chapman" <dan@...> wrote:

> I'm not sure I'm understanding your explanation correctly.  Do you mean that
> if you load a "RAM hog" application like Logic or Photoshop, then open a
> "low RAM" application, the larger application can't expand RAM further?

Yes. Mac OS assigns RAM in solid chunks; it cannot assign RAM (or add more
RAM) to one app if another app is loaded afterwards.

Think of your RAM as the spindle on this classic Fisher-Price toy:

http://www.fisher-price.com/us/img/product_shots/71050_b_1.jpg

Lets say that Logic is the blue ring on the bottom (that you loaded FIRST),
and all the other rings are other apps. If you want to make the blue ring
BIGGER (give it more RAM), you will have to quit the other apps (take of the
rings above the blue ring off) in order for the blue ring to be made bigger.
That's why it's better to boot the other apps, first. That way the blue ring
can grow as large as it needs to -- until it gets taller than the spindle
and falls off. That's when your Fisher-Price toy CRASHES! :D

On 7/13/04 8:46 AM, "Mac Duff" <dropzone@...> wrote:

> On 7/12/04 12:13 PM, "Dan Chapman" <dan@...> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure I'm understanding your explanation correctly.  Do you mean that
>> if you load a "RAM hog" application like Logic or Photoshop, then open a
>> "low RAM" application, the larger application can't expand RAM further?
> 
> Yes. Mac OS assigns RAM in solid chunks; it cannot assign RAM (or add more
> RAM) to one app if another app is loaded afterwards.

Forget to reemphasize that this is NOT a problem with Mac OS X.

On 13/7/04 1:46 pm, "Mac Duff" <dropzone@...> wrote:

> Yes. Mac OS assigns RAM in solid chunks; it cannot assign RAM (or add more
> RAM) to one app if another app is loaded afterwards.

I wonder what this means for LOGIC/TDM on OS9. LOGIC itself will launch the
DAE and probably choke itself from grabbing more RAM, because the DAE is
sitting on top. However, the DAE can also be launched manually *before*
LOGIC and then LOGIC will just do it's own thing and use the existing DAE. I
will have to try both variations while keeping an eye on memory usage! Did
you ever have a chance experiment with this, mac duff?

(great post, loving the fisher price analogy...)

Brio

On 7/13/04 6:20 PM, "Brio Taliaferro" <logic@...> wrote:

> Did
> you ever have a chance experiment with this, mac duff?

It was quite a while ago that I forget how much experimenting I did, versus
just reading on it and doing it. I did use a RAM meter in Mac OS Classic
that showed how the Ram was being used. Also, A hint to this is the fact
that, in the "About This Apple" window, you might have A LOT of apps
running, and you conceivably could have fragmented your RAM by booting these
MANY apps and say, quitting every OTHER one. You may have lots of Ram
"free", but it's the LARGEST UNUSED BLOCK that is the biggest chunk of all
the fragmented free Ram that your Mac can use. That's why About This Mac
reports the largest unused chunk of RAM.