EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Does anyone think that EXS will ever have 
keyswitch-like functions? Or is that a proprietory 
thing?

If you don't know what I'm talking about, 
Gigastudio allows you to switch between sample 
sets using unused keys on your controller (so you 
can instantly go from vibrato to non-vibrato 
violin lines, or popping to finger bass all in one 
pass).

Ned (sometimes wishing he was on PC)

http://www.nedfx.com

       Ned Bouhalassa

n e d @ n e d f x . c o m

Thoughts from the mind of Ned Bouhalassa, 15-07-2002:

>Does anyone think that EXS will ever have
>keyswitch-like functions? Or is that a proprietory
>thing?
>
>If you don't know what I'm talking about,
>Gigastudio allows you to switch between sample
>sets using unused keys on your controller (so you
>can instantly go from vibrato to non-vibrato
>violin lines, or popping to finger bass all in one
>pass).

If it wasn't necessary to select a vsti's track in order to be able 
to play it, this would be trivial to implement in the environment. 
Really wished Emagic did something about this silly "feature"...

Come to think of it: if you use different velocity-layers in an EXS 
instrument, it would be do-able (and simple) to make an environment 
patch that allows you to switch between layers with unused keys. 
Then you'd still be stuck with _velocity_ layers of course which is 
not ideal...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Eli, hope you don't mind if I jump in here,

The thing that I find limiting in your suggestion 
(although it is a good one) is that the user 
cannot play a given line at the same time. If the 
switcher is selected, then you're using the midi 
controller to send switch commands, not midi 
note-ons, and of course, if you're sending 
note-ons (exs instrument is selected), then you're 
not sending commands to the switcher. The ideal 
thing would be to be able to tell the environment 
that the first octave of your controller sends 
data to one track, while the rest of the range of 
your keyboard controls another track...

Ned

Eli Krantzberg wrote:

 > Suppose you set up a bunch of different EXS instruments with different
> articulations loaded into each. Then create a cable switcher type of fader
> object with a cable going to each one of them. Set the input definition for
> the cable switcher to be a specific midi note (if this isn't directly
> possible, then I suppose you could convert the incoming message via a
> transformer). Make the cable switcher your track instrument. Then
> play/record on it and use your dedicated midi note pitch to automatically
> toggle the cable switcher outputs to the different EXS instruments. There
> shouldn't be any latency issue since technically there is only one EXS
> instance being triggered at a time. What do you think?





http://www.nedfx.com

       Ned Bouhalassa

n e d @ n e d f x . c o m

Thoughts from the mind of Ned Bouhalassa, 15-07-2002:

>The ideal
>thing would be to be able to tell the environment
>that the first octave of your controller sends
>data to one track, while the rest of the range of
>your keyboard controls another track...

Completely trivial to do in the environment.  Still you'd run into 
the problem that only the selected EXS track would play...  I can't 
think of a workaround for that...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Thoughts from the mind of Eli Krantzberg, 15-07-2002:

>Suppose you set up a bunch of different EXS instruments with different
>articulations loaded into each. Then create a cable switcher type of fader
>object with a cable going to each one of them. Set the input definition for
>the cable switcher to be a specific midi note (if this isn't directly
>possible, then I suppose you could convert the incoming message via a
>transformer). Make the cable switcher your track instrument. Then
>play/record on it and use your dedicated midi note pitch to automatically
>toggle the cable switcher outputs to the different EXS instruments. There
>shouldn't be any latency issue since technically there is only one EXS
>instance being triggered at a time. What do you think?

My guess would be that since the selected track doesn't contain an 
EXS-instance nothing would play at all...  Gotta try this, but I'm 
fairly sure it won't work.  Otherwise it would be the solution, 
obviously.  In my previous post I only suggested switching between 
velo-layers, because I would hate to have to load however many 
instances of the same instrument...  Still, with... how many 
nowadays...? 24? 32?  VSTi's in Logic, my objection doesn't really 
hold, I know :-).

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:

> Thoughts from the mind of Ned Bouhalassa, 15-07-2002:
>
> >Does anyone think that EXS will ever have
> >keyswitch-like functions? Or is that a proprietory
> >thing?
> >
> >If you don't know what I'm talking about,
> >Gigastudio allows you to switch between sample
> >sets using unused keys on your controller (so you
> >can instantly go from vibrato to non-vibrato
> >violin lines, or popping to finger bass all in one
> >pass).
>
> If it wasn't necessary to select a vsti's track in order to be able
> to play it, this would be trivial to implement in the environment.
> Really wished Emagic did something about this silly "feature"...

Just thinking out loud here Hendrik, but tell me if this would work:

Suppose you set up a bunch of different EXS instruments with different
articulations loaded into each. Then create a cable switcher type of fader
object with a cable going to each one of them. Set the input definition for
the cable switcher to be a specific midi note (if this isn't directly
possible, then I suppose you could convert the incoming message via a
transformer). Make the cable switcher your track instrument. Then
play/record on it and use your dedicated midi note pitch to automatically
toggle the cable switcher outputs to the different EXS instruments. There
shouldn't be any latency issue since technically there is only one EXS
instance being triggered at a time. What do you think?


--
Eli Krantzberg
Nightshift Orchestra / Almat Productions
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

Thoughts from the mind of Eli Krantzberg, 15-07-2002:

>Suppose you set up a bunch of different EXS instruments with different
>articulations loaded into each. Then create a cable switcher type of fader
>object with a cable going to each one of them. Set the input definition for
>the cable switcher to be a specific midi note (if this isn't directly
>possible, then I suppose you could convert the incoming message via a
>transformer). Make the cable switcher your track instrument.

[a few minutes after my previous post]

No, doesn't work.  Only the EXS instance cabled to the 1st outlet of 
the Cable Switcher ever plays (if the switch is in the right 
position, that is).  Toggling the switch will simply cause no output 
to occur.

Easy enough to check for yourself -  and this might actually work 
different (i.e. work at all :) under Windows, since the "play 
multiple instances with heavy latency" kludge _also_ works under 
Windows and not on a Mac.

Create a Cable Switcher, and set its range from 0-1.  Cable its 1st 
outlet to 1st audio instrument, 2nd outlet to 2nd (both inst's having 
an EXS instance).  Assign a track to the Cable Switcher.  Play your 
keyboard, click the Switcher to toggle between both EXS's.  Doesn't 
work over here.  Finito, end of experiment.

It's this kind of limitations in LA's midi implementation that at 
times really, really (and i mean REALLY) drive me up the wall.  I 
hope Apple will keep flogging the Emagic dudes until they've got this 
stuff sorted out...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Ned Bouhalassa wrote:

> Eli, hope you don't mind if I jump in here,
>
> The thing that I find limiting in your suggestion
> (although it is a good one) is that the user
> cannot play a given line at the same time. If the
> switcher is selected, then you're using the midi
> controller to send switch commands, not midi
> note-ons, and of course, if you're sending
> note-ons (exs instrument is selected), then you're
> not sending commands to the switcher. The ideal
> thing would be to be able to tell the environment
> that the first octave of your controller sends
> data to one track, while the rest of the range of
> your keyboard controls another track...
>
>

Hi Ned,

What I had in mind was dedicating, say, one specific midi note to control the
switcher. Say C2 for example. Set the input definition of the cable switcher to
respond to only a C2. Then when you are playing your keyboard controller you
just hit the C2 (you have to sacrifice being able to play one midi note for this
to work) to toggle the cable switcher in real time; while you are playing your
part in.




--
Eli Krantzberg
Nightshift Orchestra / Almat Productions
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

> What I had in mind was dedicating, say, one specific midi note to control the
> switcher. Say C2 for example. Set the input definition of the cable switcher
> to
> respond to only a C2. Then when you are playing your keyboard controller you
> just hit the C2 (you have to sacrifice being able to play one midi note for
> this
> to work) to toggle the cable switcher in real time; while you are playing your
> part in.

In theory, this sounds really good to me.

EXS users,

Does anyone know how to change patches with the EXS 24? My understanding is
that this is not possible in Logic right now. Will this ever be possible in
the current design of VSTi instruments or in Logic's proprietary system? It
would make a big difference to me since I hate the though of fragmenting my
work over many tracks just to get differences in articulations.

Also has anyone compared the Sampled Reverbs in Altiverb and Sound Forge?

Regards

 
-- Paul Nicholls
New Traditions Media
#421-6450 East Boulevard
Vancouver BC
V6M 3V9
604 269-9202
paulnicholls@...

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:

>
> No, doesn't work.  Only the EXS instance cabled to the 1st outlet of
> the Cable Switcher ever plays (if the switch is in the right
> position, that is).  Toggling the switch will simply cause no output
> to occur.
>
> [snip]  Finito, end of experiment.
>

Well, that's that then. Thanks for actually trying it out..... Back to the
drawing board :-(



--
Eli Krantzberg
Nightshift Orchestra / Almat Productions
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

Thoughts from the mind of Eli Krantzberg, 15-07-2002:

>Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>>  No, doesn't work.  Only the EXS instance cabled to the 1st outlet of
>>  the Cable Switcher ever plays (if the switch is in the right
>>  position, that is).  Toggling the switch will simply cause no output
>>  to occur.
>>
>  > [snip]  Finito, end of experiment.
>
>Well, that's that then. Thanks for actually trying it out..... Back to the
>drawing board :-(

As far as I can tell there's only one solution (read: major kludge) 
that would work.  Assign midi remote commands to Logic's "next track" 
and "previous track" commands.  Make sure you have audio-instruments 
1-8 in order on the arrange page.  Make an environment patch that 
remembers which track is currently selected and that, upon reception 
of some event like the lowest keys of your keyboard, produces enough 
"next" or "previous" commands which are sent into the Physical In 
object.
So basically you let the "midi notes switch" work as an automated 
cursor keypad to select the proper EXS track.

Would anyone actually be interested in such a kludge?

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Thoughts from the mind of Eli Krantzberg, 16-07-2002:

>Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:
>
>  >  Assign midi remote commands to Logic's "next track"
>>  and "previous track" commands. [snip]
>>
>  > Would anyone actually be interested in such a kludge?
>
>Not me.

Good :-).  Stubborn as I am, I already made an environment patch that 
does what I suggested.  Works like a charm, in principle, but after 
switching back & forth between tracks (using the remote commands) a 
couple of times, Logic completely freaks out, and the track selection 
keeps running up and down, as if you kept pushing up & down arrow 
keys very fast (looks like some kind of feedback, which is 
impossible).  Total lock of the machine, and a hard reboot is the 
only way out.  Extremely strange, as there's no reason it should do 
this -- esp. since it works alright for the first few times you use 
the remote commands.
When using on-screen pushbuttons to emulate the remote keys being 
pressed there's also no problem.  This just doesn't make sense at all.

Sigh...  it *could* have been quite a nice solution.  After resetting 
the computer at least 5 times in the past 30 minutes, I think I'd 
better go do something less nerve-wrecking, and give it another try 
later...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:

>
>  Assign midi remote commands to Logic's "next track"
> and "previous track" commands. [snip]
>
> Would anyone actually be interested in such a kludge?
>

Not me.

--
Eli Krantzberg
Nightshift Orchestra / Almat Productions
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

Ned Bouhalassa, 15-07-2002:
>Does anyone think that EXS will ever have
>keyswitch-like functions? Or is that a proprietory
>thing?
>
>If you don't know what I'm talking about,
>Gigastudio allows you to switch between sample
>sets using unused keys on your controller (so you
>can instantly go from vibrato to non-vibrato
>violin lines, or popping to finger bass all in one
>pass).

Hendrik Jan Veenstra: 
>If it wasn't necessary to select a vsti's track in order to be able 
>to play it, this would be trivial to implement in the environment. 
>Really wished Emagic did something about this silly "feature"...
>
>Come to think of it: if you use different velocity-layers in an EXS 
>instrument, it would be do-able (and simple) to make an environment 
>patch that allows you to switch between layers with unused keys. 
>Then you'd still be stuck with _velocity_ layers of course which is 
>not ideal...

Hi,
Maybe there is something else that can work with the current version of
EXS. First you have to create a combined instrument. Imagine you have
two switches in this instrument: non-vibrato and vibrato. Layout the
samples _next_ to each other on the key range, first sample set starting
on C1 and second on C3. Adjust root note in such a way that C1 and C3
have same pitch when played. Now make a cable switcher that
adds/subtracts 24 to a played key value when a dedicated controller key
is pressed. 
I guess this can be extended to 3 or even 4 switched instruments,
dependent on the pitch range of each individual sample set. HJ, can this
Gigastudio emulation work? I didn't try it myself yet, it obviously
needs some programming... (but no fuzz with track or velocity
switching!)
Herbert Boland

Thoughts from the mind of Herbert Boland, 16-07-2002:

>Maybe there is something else that can work with the current version of
>EXS. First you have to create a combined instrument. Imagine you have
>two switches in this instrument: non-vibrato and vibrato. Layout the
>samples _next_ to each other on the key range, first sample set starting
>on C1 and second on C3. Adjust root note in such a way that C1 and C3
>have same pitch when played. Now make a cable switcher that
>adds/subtracts 24 to a played key value when a dedicated controller key
>is pressed.
>I guess this can be extended to 3 or even 4 switched instruments,
>dependent on the pitch range of each individual sample set. HJ, can this
>Gigastudio emulation work? I didn't try it myself yet, it obviously
>needs some programming... (but no fuzz with track or velocity
>switching!)

Yes, this should be perfectly do-able.  Not a bad idea at all. 
Should also be very easy to make in the environment.  I could give it 
a shot if anyone's interested.
Such an environment patch should have a setting for "number of zones" 
and something like "width per zone" and "lowest keyboard note" or 
something...

The only drawback is that you'd have to create dedicated 
exs-instruments to work with it...  OTOH, the advantage is that you 
would end up with all midi notes on a single track, instead of having 
them distributed over however many different tracks.

Wow, if only Emagic had implemented this stuff properly, how much 
easier would life then be...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Herbert Boland, 16-07-2002:
>Maybe there is something else that can work with the current version of

>EXS. First you have to create a combined instrument. Imagine you have 
>two switches in this instrument: non-vibrato and vibrato. Layout the 
>samples _next_ to each other on the key range, first sample set 
>starting on C1 and second on C3. Adjust root note in such a way that C1

>and C3 have same pitch when played. Now make a cable switcher that 
>adds/subtracts 24 to a played key value when a dedicated controller key

>is pressed. 

Hendrik Jan Veenstra replied :
>Yes, this should be perfectly do-able.  Not a bad idea at all. 
>Should also be very easy to make in the environment.  I could give it 
>a shot if anyone's interested.

I am. 

>Such an environment patch should have a setting for "number of zones" 
>and something like "width per zone" and "lowest keyboard note" or 
>something...

Don't add to much parameters.  Maybe 3 and 4 zones versions are usable.
A zone is between 2 and 3 actaves large. You can use all of the keys
that are visible in an EXS patch. But of course strings, woodwind, bass
and brass (to name a few) have different optimum pitch ranges. 

>The only drawback is that you'd have to create dedicated 
>exs-instruments to work with it...  

Well, combined instruments, that still are playable without a special
environment.

>OTOH, the advantage is that you 
>would end up with all midi notes on a single track, instead of having 
>them distributed over however many different tracks.

... so great for editing, add/remove an effect, performance, etc.

Herbert Boland

Thoughts from the mind of <HELP@...>, 16-07-2002:

>All this constructive, industry-leading brainstorming
>should be worth something. Don't you think? ;-) Jer

I can send you the number of my bank-account, if you want to make a donation...

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

I hope someone at Emagic is listening to all this. This would be an ideal
place for them to have their ear on the railroad tracks so to speak. Apple
should buy us out. All this constructive, industry-leading brainstorming
should be worth something. Don't you think? ;-) Jer

> Thoughts from the mind of Herbert Boland, 16-07-2002:
> 
>> Maybe there is something else that can work with the current version of
>> EXS. First you have to create a combined instrument. Imagine you have
>> two switches in this instrument: non-vibrato and vibrato. Layout the
>> samples _next_ to each other on the key range, first sample set starting
>> on C1 and second on C3. Adjust root note in such a way that C1 and C3
>> have same pitch when played. Now make a cable switcher that
>> adds/subtracts 24 to a played key value when a dedicated controller key
>> is pressed.
>> I guess this can be extended to 3 or even 4 switched instruments,
>> dependent on the pitch range of each individual sample set. HJ, can this
>> Gigastudio emulation work? I didn't try it myself yet, it obviously
>> needs some programming... (but no fuzz with track or velocity
>> switching!)
> 
> Yes, this should be perfectly do-able.  Not a bad idea at all.
> Should also be very easy to make in the environment.  I could give it
> a shot if anyone's interested.
> Such an environment patch should have a setting for "number of zones"
> and something like "width per zone" and "lowest keyboard note" or
> something...
> 
> The only drawback is that you'd have to create dedicated
> exs-instruments to work with it...  OTOH, the advantage is that you
> would end up with all midi notes on a single track, instead of having
> them distributed over however many different tracks.
> 
> Wow, if only Emagic had implemented this stuff properly, how much
> easier would life then be...

> I can send you the number of my bank-account, if you want to make a
> donation...

Do I look like a multi-national corporation to you?

> I can send you the number of my bank-account, if you want to make a
> donation...

On second thought, send me your bank account anyway. Maybe I can make a
withdrawal. ;-)

You can also use the velocity zones to mock-up key switching in one 
instrument. Use a series of transforms to convert note pitches to control 
inputs, using the cable switcher to patch them to velocity zones. The 
disadvantage is you get limited velocity control of volume and sample 
switching. I'll try to post an example on our website in the next couple 
of days.

-Mark
www.ilio.com

>>Maybe there is something else that can work with the current version of
>>EXS. First you have to create a combined instrument. Imagine you have
>>two switches in this instrument: non-vibrato and vibrato. Layout the
>>samples _next_ to each other on the key range, first sample set starting
>>on C1 and second on C3. Adjust root note in such a way that C1 and C3
>>have same pitch when played. Now make a cable switcher that
>>adds/subtracts 24 to a played key value when a dedicated controller key
>>is pressed.
>>I guess this can be extended to 3 or even 4 switched instruments,
>>dependent on the pitch range of each individual sample set. HJ, can this
>>Gigastudio emulation work? I didn't try it myself yet, it obviously
>>needs some programming... (but no fuzz with track or velocity
>>switching!)
>
>Yes, this should be perfectly do-able.  Not a bad idea at all. 
>Should also be very easy to make in the environment.  I could give it 
>a shot if anyone's interested.
>Such an environment patch should have a setting for "number of zones" 
>and something like "width per zone" and "lowest keyboard note" or 
>something...

Thoughts from the mind of Mark Hiskey, 16-07-2002:

>You can also use the velocity zones to mock-up key switching in one
>instrument. Use a series of transforms to convert note pitches to control
>inputs, using the cable switcher to patch them to velocity zones. The
>disadvantage is you get limited velocity control of volume and sample
>switching. I'll try to post an example on our website in the next couple
>of days.

Using velocity zoes is exactly the 1st suggestion I came up with last 
Monday :-).

QUOTE
Come to think of it: if you use different velocity-layers in an EXS
instrument, it would be do-able (and simple) to make an environment
patch that allows you to switch between layers with unused keys.
Then you'd still be stuck with _velocity_ layers of course which is
not ideal...
UNQUOTE

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Sorry Hendrik. That's what I get for skipping posts.

-Mark

>>You can also use the velocity zones to mock-up key switching in one
>>instrument. Use a series of transforms to convert note pitches to control
>>inputs, using the cable switcher to patch them to velocity zones. The
>>disadvantage is you get limited velocity control of volume and sample
>>switching. I'll try to post an example on our website in the next couple
>>of days.
>
>Using velocity zoes is exactly the 1st suggestion I came up with last 
>Monday :-).
>
>QUOTE
>Come to think of it: if you use different velocity-layers in an EXS
>instrument, it would be do-able (and simple) to make an environment
>patch that allows you to switch between layers with unused keys.
>Then you'd still be stuck with _velocity_ layers of course which is
>not ideal...
>UNQUOTE

Mark Hiskey [mailto:mark@...] :
>You can also use the velocity zones to mock-up key switching in one 
>instrument. Use a series of transforms to convert note pitches to
control 
>inputs, using the cable switcher to patch them to velocity zones. The 
>disadvantage is you get limited velocity control of volume and sample 
>switching. I'll try to post an example on our website in the next
couple 
>of days.

Look forward to this! If the limitation in dynamic range can be
compensated for by smart use of expression or volume then it is hardly a
setback. But expression is also not correct implemented in EXS i.e
completely absent. So I let my ears be the judge. If it's musically
usefull then it's oke.
Herbert Boland

Thoughts from the mind of Herbert Boland, 16-07-2002:

>Herbert Boland, 16-07-2002:
>  >Maybe there is something else that can work with the current version of
>>EXS. First you have to create a combined instrument. Imagine you have
>>two switches in this instrument: non-vibrato and vibrato. Layout the
>>samples _next_ to each other on the key range, first sample set
>  >starting on C1 and second on C3. Adjust root note in such a way that C1
>>and C3 have same pitch when played. Now make a cable switcher that
>  >adds/subtracts 24 to a played key value when a dedicated controller key
>>is pressed.
>
>Hendrik Jan Veenstra replied :
>>Yes, this should be perfectly do-able.  Not a bad idea at all.
>>Should also be very easy to make in the environment.  I could give it
>>a shot if anyone's interested.
>
>I am.

Okay, it's done, although it was not at all as easy as I'd first 
thought.  To the contrary in fact...

Here's a blurb from the included docs:
---
ZoneSwitch is a macro that allows you to quickly transpose your MIDI 
keyboard, using "unused" keys. It's intended to be a workaround for 
the fact that Logic doesn't provide a way to switch between virtual 
instruments on the fly. If you have e.g. a couple of EXS instruments 
with different violin artiulcations (legato, staccato, pizzicato, 
etc), it would be nice to have a way to switch between these 
different instruments while playing your keyboard. This is precisely 
what ZoneSwitch allows you to do, provided you set up an EXS 
instrument specifically for this purpose (which you, obviously, only 
have to do once for each "set" of instruments you want to use).
---

Works very good imo...  Before announcing its existence "worldwide" 
(i.e. in the LUG :-), I'd like to get some feedback from those 
interested.  Therefore there's no link on my webpage yet, but only 
this direct link:

http://www.ision.nl/users/h/soft/zonesw.sit

...and yes, that's a Stuffit archive.  You can get Stuffit Expander 
(Mac/Win) for free from http://www.aladdinsys.com


Enjoy...
HJ
-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan Veenstra [mailto:h@...] :
>Okay, it's done, although it was not at all as easy as I'd first 
>thought.  To the contrary in fact...

Muchas gracias! I value your effort very much and will give it a try as
soon as possible. (first prepare for an exam tomorrow...)
Regards, Herbert Boland

>Thoughts from the mind of Eli Krantzberg, 15-07-2002:
> >Suppose you set up a bunch of different EXS instruments with 
> >different articulations loaded into each. Then create a cable 
> >switcher type of fader object with a cable going to each one 
> >of them. Set the input definition for the cable switcher to be 
> >a specific midi note (if this isn't directly possible, then I 
> >suppose you could convert the incoming message via a 
> >transformer). Make the cable switcher your track instrument.
> 
> [a few minutes after my previous post]
> No, doesn't work.  Only the EXS instance cabled to the 1st outlet of 
> the Cable Switcher ever plays (if the switch is in the right 
> position, that is).  Toggling the switch will simply cause no output 
> to occur.


Btw, with all this talk about the limitation of only being able to play one
AudioInst in realtime -- have any of you guys been able to test out the
workaround posted last month on the LUG? I still don't have v5 yet so I
can't test this myself.


--- In logic-users@y..., "kalamataguy" <kalamataguy@y...> wrote:
> I am playing 6 instruments from 6 KB midi controllers
> simultaneously.
> see:
> Logic Forums   » Logic Composers   » Environ-Mental   » 
> 3 - midi controllers to play three instruments simultaneously. 
> How?  at:
> http://community.sonikmatter.com/cgi-bin/emagic/ultimatebb.cgi


For everyone too busy to read through the huge thread, here's the 
most important part:
------------------------------------------------------------------

From: oink on Sonikmatter

Ok, what I have found is that in split mode, midi channel 1 will play 
instrument 1 constantly. Any other channel will play whatever track 
is selected. 

If I cable transformers in to the individual port connections to the 
sequencer input to turn my 2 controllers into 4, then use the channel 
splitter track which is cabled to 4 instruments, all 4 will play with 
no latency differential. I just wish I had 4 controllers to test this 
further.

The MIDI channel assignment on AudioInstruments in this situation is 
irrelevantant. Just leave them at cha 1. 

The important thing is to cable the individual MIDI ports, of each 
controller, on the Physical Input Object, directly to the sequencer 
input [default name:to Recording & Thru] You can cable monitor 
objects in-line to check this is where the controller-keyboards are 
coming in. 

The next thing is to make sure the controller-keyboards are sending 
on unique MIDI channels.[if they are all on cha 1 use transformers to 
change the channel in-between the physical Input and the sequencer 
input.]

Then you cable a channel-splitter's outputs [which correspond to the 
channels the controller-keyboards are sending on] to the 
corresponding AudioInstrument objects.

Enage Split mode [auto demix] .

Make the channel-splitter the track instrument.

Rec-enable the channel-splitter track, and the Instruments.

Make sure the sequencer is running [this doesn't work while stopped].

Then play.

You might find the recorded sequences show up on the wrong tracks, 
with channel 1 being on the channel splitter track, channel2 on the 
channel 1 track etc. Just move them over.
------------------------------------------------------------------

>Btw, with all this talk about the limitation of only being able to play one
>AudioInst in realtime -- have any of you guys been able to test out the
>workaround posted last month on the LUG? I still don't have v5 yet so I
>can't test this myself.

<long quote>

Hmmm.....
This seems to be a workaround if you have 2 or more keyboard controllers.
I think the problem that most of us have is trying to play more than 
one VSTi from ONE controller at the same time.

Regards - Colin

> >Btw, with all this talk about the limitation of only being able to play
one
> >AudioInst in realtime -- have any of you guys been able to test out the
> >workaround posted last month on the LUG? I still don't have v5 yet so I
> >can't test this myself. <snip>

Colin wrote:
> Hmmm.....
> This seems to be a workaround if you have 2 or more keyboard controllers.
> I think the problem that most of us have is trying to play more than 
> one VSTi from ONE controller at the same time.


It seems to be a workaround for 2 or more keyboard controllers sending in
midi data on different ports, but still supposedly controlling more than one
VSTi at once... but can't you make just one controller send data out over
different ports depending on the value of the note? I know some of the Fatar
midi keyboards will let you set up various splits on the keyboard internally
but I thought you could do this in Logic with transformers etc.. Or is the
problem just that the data needs to be spread across multiple ports -before-
it gets to Logic's Physical Input? If that's the case wouldn't one of those
Fatar keyboards that can set up the splits internally would do the trick? Or
maybe there's a big difference midi ports and midi channels?

Jeremy
http://www.ixks.com/~sadus

Thoughts from the mind of Martin, Jeremy, 18-07-2002:

>but can't you make just one controller send data out over
>different ports depending on the value of the note? I know some of the Fatar
>midi keyboards will let you set up various splits on the keyboard internally
>but I thought you could do this in Logic with transformers etc.. Or is the
>problem just that the data needs to be spread across multiple ports -before-
>it gets to Logic's Physical Input?

I don't know the answer but, frankly, I don't think it's _that_ 
relevant anyway.  What good is splitting a 5-octave keyboard when you 
want to be able to play 3 or more instruments, each spanning maybe 2 
or more octaves?
Workarounds are okay, as long as they work for most obvious 
situations.  Controlling 2 instruments with just 5 octaves of keys 
doesn't seem to fal in that category imo.


BTW, did anyone try the switching-environment I posted about?  Up 
till now it seems only Herbert tried, in LAWG 4.8.1, and for some 
obscure reason it crashes his machine -- which definitely should not 
happen -- so I would be curious to hear some from some more people to 
see if they can at least _load_ it properly.

For those willing to give it a shot:

<http://www.ision.nl/users/h/soft/zonesw.sit>http://www.ision.nl/users/h/soft/zonesw.sit

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra  <h@...>
Omega Art: http://www.ision.nl/users/h/index.html

Hendrik Jan Veenstra wrote:

>
> BTW, did anyone try the switching-environment I posted about?  Up
> till now it seems only Herbert tried, in LAWG 4.8.1, and for some
> obscure reason it crashes his machine -- which definitely should not
> happen -- so I would be curious to hear some from some more people to
> see if they can at least _load_ it properly.

Sorry dude; I've been busy with sessions the last few days, and am today as well. Business
before pleasure ...... :)

I should have a chance to try it tomorrow (Sat). I'll post again once I've tried it.



--
Eli Krantzberg
Nightshift Orchestra / Almat Productions
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

> I don't know the answer but, frankly, I don't think it's _that_
> relevant anyway.  What good is splitting a 5-octave keyboard when you
> want to be able to play 3 or more instruments, each spanning maybe 2
> or more octaves?
> Workarounds are okay, as long as they work for most obvious
> situations.  Controlling 2 instruments with just 5 octaves of keys
> doesn't seem to fal in that category imo.

I definitely agree with this statement. It's important for me to have access
to the full range.