EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

I've just loaded in some old K 2000 samples from old K2000 sample CD roms
into the EXS from CDXtract. Some, actually most, got truncated at the front
end so the attacks are at best, way to abrupt. I need to get some more head
room. Anyone have any ideas how i can do that? Softening the attack envelope
really doesn't do it. I figure with some more head room I can try fading in.
I'm not sure I want to bring them into logic as audio tracks fade each one
in and resample. Not worth the time, so I guess I'm asking is there an
elegant way to perform this task. Or... Something i can do in CDxtract to
solve the problem. I must add that conversion in CDXtract for all sample
formats is ten times faster than using the EXS24. One last question. Does
anyone find any descernable difference between Aiff and Wav?
LAMP 6
G4
OS9
Jake

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loot" KK/AK

At 08:47 AM 4/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>I've just loaded in some old K 2000 samples from old K2000 sample CD roms. 
>Some, actually most, got truncated at the front end so the attacks are at 
>best, way to abrupt. I need to get some more head room. Anyone have any 
>ideas how i can do that? Softening the attack envelope really doesn't do 
>it. I figure with some more head room I can try fading in. I'm not sure I 
>want to bring them into logic as audio tracks fade each one
>in and resample. Not worth the time, so I guess I'm asking is there an 
>elegant way to perform this task.

As a side note, Translator preserves all the audio information when 
translating Kurzweil samples to WAV/AIFF, and it also translates Kurzweil 
Programs to EXS. Maybe the samples were brought across using the Alt sample 
start and not the true sample start. See www.chickensys.com/translator

Otherwise, why not try to normalize the samples (is that the headroom you 
refer to?) and fade in using 1 in the Group? Is that too soft? Put them 
into a good editor (Peak, Spark, other), normalize them, fade in. You can 
do that with the EXS sampler editor, can't you?

Regarding whether AIFF or WAVE is "better," I would stick with AIFF, but 
there is no inherent audio quality difference. They are simply two 
different ways of expressing samples. Neither have an inherent advantage, 
both are open formats and neither have any edge on either.

I would stick with AIFF just because the Motorola processor thinks in 
big-endian byte order, and as a result on the Mac, most software is kinder 
and gentler to AIFF files. EXS probably loads them faster, although I don't 
have test results to prove it.

But if this is a hassle, don't worry about. I can't think of many instances 
where you get burned by using multiple formats. Some apps don't take 
dropping WAVE files on them. I'm a organizational freak, so if I used a Mac 
only (which I don't), it'd be AIFF, all day, every day. Any Mac audio app 
needs to support AIFF or else it's lousy. If they don't support WAVE, it's 
almost excusable, maybe.

(BTW, Sound Designer files have a great edge in that they can alter their 
control information (not the sample data) without rewriting the sample data 
at all, since their info is in the resource fork, not the data fork. But 
that fact dooms their format for cross-platform, because PC's don't take 
resource fork things, and they don't read Mac disks normally. (Actually, 
there is a way, but PC apps don't recognize this normally.))

P.S. Who's Kurt? =)

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

So Garth, is this in perfect flawless form now? I'm anxious to use this if
it is really working, but I don't want to be beta testing. I'd like to do
the translations and be done with it. Should I try now or wait? -Jer

> As a side note, Translator preserves all the audio information when
> translating Kurzweil samples to WAV/AIFF, and it also translates Kurzweil
> Programs to EXS. Maybe the samples were brought across using the Alt sample
> start and not the true sample start. See www.chickensys.com/translator

on 14/4/03 5:51 PM, exs-users@yahoogroups.com at exs-users@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

> So Garth, is this in perfect flawless form now? I'm anxious to use this if
> it is really working, but I don't want to be beta testing. I'd like to do
> the translations and be done with it. Should I try now or wait? -Jer
> 
>> As a side note, Translator preserves all the audio information when
>> translating Kurzweil samples to WAV/AIFF, and it also translates Kurzweil
>> Programs to EXS. Maybe the samples were brought across using the Alt sample
>> start and not the true sample start. See www.chickensys.com/translator

Hi Garth, I am a Translator and CD Extract user so I intend no bias but.....
Is it true to say that neither app can duplicate what the Kurzweils filters
are doing to the samples and apply it to the resultant EXS translation?
In other words if you translated 10 programs from Kurzweil to EXS that used
common samples but different filtering the result would be 10  EXS programs
that sounded the same. This is because the EXS is not a Kurzweil and does
not have the filter architecture of a Kurzweil.
For example I translated 12 Pad sounds from my Kurzweil "Danny Jaeger
Private Collection" CD.
All these programs sounded vastly different from each other but referenced
the same set of samples.
After translation to EXS all 12 pad sounds were identical. So just the
samples were translated across.
Totally useless of course because all the filter settings of the K2000 were
lost........and of course they were. The EXS is NOT a K2000 and has
different architecture and filters.
On the other hand, translating something like Bass Legends works quite well
because there is no filter information so the resulting EXS instruments are
quite useable.
Am I stating the obvious? I mean...........I don't think that either app has
the ability to copy the Kurzweil's synth engine on a per program basis and
make it sound the same in the resultant EXS instrument.
I think some users are under the impression that this can be done.
They are laboring under a misapprehension...........no?
Phil Buckle.

At 08:38 PM 4/14/03 +1000, you wrote:

>Is it true to say that neither app can duplicate what the Kurzweils filters
>are doing to the samples and apply it to the resultant EXS translation?
>In other words if you translated 10 programs from Kurzweil to EXS that used
>common samples but different filtering the result would be 10  EXS programs
>that sounded the same. This is because the EXS is not a Kurzweil and does
>not have the filter architecture of a Kurzweil.
>For example I translated 12 Pad sounds from my Kurzweil "Danny Jaeger
>Private Collection" CD.
>All these programs sounded vastly different from each other but referenced
>the same set of samples.
>After translation to EXS all 12 pad sounds were identical. So just the
>samples were translated across.
>Totally useless of course because all the filter settings of the K2000 were
>lost........and of course they were. The EXS is NOT a K2000 and has
>different architecture and filters.
>On the other hand, translating something like Bass Legends works quite well
>because there is no filter information so the resulting EXS instruments are
>quite useable.
>Am I stating the obvious? I mean...........I don't think that either app has
>the ability to copy the Kurzweil's synth engine on a per program basis and
>make it sound the same in the resultant EXS instrument.
>I think some users are under the impression that this can be done.
>They are laboring under a misapprehension...........no?

Couple o' points:

Translating into the EXS is sometimes a good thing, fun thing. You can 
specify keyswitching, controller assignments, etc. With the Mark II you can 
do more modulation. Unlimited Zones and unlimited architecture for sample 
assignments.

But for heavens sake it's a round hole that we try to jam square pegs into, 
the primary limitation being that the EXS parameters, I mean the cool ones, 
like the filers that you mention, are global to the instrument, AND add to 
that the fact there's no "bankload" of Instruments. We could solve the 
first problem like we do in SampleCell - just write more Instruments and 
create a Bank which layers them.

With the Kurzweil, the EXS actually can handle more than what we are 
throwing at it, we are doing a cursory conversion of filter info and that's 
TLR's shortcoming. We have finished some engine enhancements that cover 
those things much better. The Kurzweil is a different animal than other 
samplers because of the VAST engine and it's algorithms. But even so, it 
still does a bit and can simulate more than what TLR's throwing it.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

At 01:15 AM 4/14/03 -0400, you wrote:

> > As a side note, Translator preserves all the audio information when
> > translating Kurzweil samples to WAV/AIFF, and it also translates Kurzweil
> > Programs to EXS. Maybe the samples were brought across using the Alt sample
> > start and not the true sample start. See www.chickensys.com/translator
>So Garth, is this in perfect flawless form now? I'm anxious to use this if
>it is really working, but I don't want to be beta testing. I'd like to do
>the translations and be done with it. Should I try now or wait? -Jer

The PC translation has been available for 2+ years, the Mac version for 
about 1 year. I know of a couple issues that lingered for awhile but that 
are resolved now. My assistant did the Hans Zimmer Guitars Vol II last 
night, gave a good worksheet on it, I tried it this AM and was pretty happy 
with it. There are some engine enhancements we are putting in this week, 
perhaps you'd want to wait for that, but basically there's no reason to. I 
know lots of customers who have converted all their libs and seem happy 
with it.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

Reading between the lines of what you say here and hereabouts, it 
sounds like now Translator faithfully does EXS24 Mark II 
translations. No? Yes?  Your web site does not exactly inform on this 
issue Garth Also the login process is more than a little cumbersome. 
Will this be streamlined someday?

Bob Vandiver,
Translator user

Garth sez:

> The PC translation has been available for 2+ years, the Mac version 
for 
> about 1 year. I know of a couple issues that lingered for awhile 
but that 
> are resolved now. My assistant did the Hans Zimmer Guitars Vol II 
last 
> night, gave a good worksheet on it, I tried it this AM and was 
pretty happy 
> with it. There are some engine enhancements we are putting in this 
week, 
> perhaps you'd want to wait for that, but basically there's no 
reason to. I 
> know lots of customers who have converted all their libs and seem 
happy 

> with it.
> 
> Garth Hjelte
> Sampler User

At 07:48 PM 4/14/03 +0000, you wrote:

>Reading between the lines of what you say here and hereabouts, it
>sounds like now Translator faithfully does EXS24 Mark II
>translations. No? Yes?  Your web site does not exactly inform on this
>issue

Nope, right now (emphasis on the "right now") the Mac version doesn't 
employ the new mod and filter parameters.

>Also the login process is more than a little cumbersome. Will this be 
>streamlined someday?

On the update area? Yes, the old version is cumbersome, and yes it's being 
taken care of. Safari is causing it problems in our test areas.



Garth Hjelte
Sampler User