The Logic Off Topic list

There is the magma chasis. You can probably do a web search. There might be 
some other alternative. Why don't you contact a salesperson at Sweetwater or 
Guitar Center.

>Someone responded saying there is a PCI expansion
>module that I've never even heard of that's available
>can someone out there tell me more about this unit!
>Cost, were to purchase, downsides if any please.

>
>>Someone responded saying there is a PCI expansion
>>module that I've never even heard of that's available
>>can someone out there tell me more about this unit!
>  >Cost, were to purchase, downsides if any please.
>
>There is the magma chasis. You can probably do a web search. There might be
>some other alternative. Why don't you contact a salesperson at Sweetwater or
>Guitar Center.

The very best thing to do would be to wait about three days and see 
what comes out at the Mac world expo.  OTOH if you have a couple of 
months to wait for stuff to actually hit the street the Magma 
expansion chassis are the standard route.  BTW what is the breakdown 
of your cards?  Why aren't 4 enough?

--- Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote:
> >
> >>Someone responded saying there is a PCI expansion
> >>module that I've never even heard of that's
> available
> >>can someone out there tell me more about this
> unit!
> >  >Cost, were to purchase, downsides if any please.
> >
> >There is the magma chasis. You can probably do a
> web search. There might be
> >some other alternative. Why don't you contact a
> salesperson at Sweetwater or
> >Guitar Center.
> 
> The very best thing to do would be to wait about
> three days and see 
> what comes out at the Mac world expo.  OTOH if you
> have a couple of 
> months to wait for stuff to actually hit the street
> the Magma 
> expansion chassis are the standard route.  BTW what
> is the breakdown 
> of your cards?  Why aren't 4 enough?
> 
  I currently house 2 audio cards, 1 sound card, 1 DV
card, 1 SCSI card and am now looking to purchase a VST
DSP card that will take up the sixth and final slot on
my MOBO.


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Macophiles and Logic users might want to read this ... 

http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=25871

> On the eve of Apple Computer's semi-annual MacWorld event, Microsoft has 
>dropped a bombshell on the company: Work harder to accelerate Mac OS X 
>sales, or Microsoft will exit the Mac market forever. This sentiment is one 
>shared by many Mac developers, as Mac OS X has not sold well at all, as 
>reported recently in WinInfo Daily UPDATE. Currently, Apple estimates that 
>as few as 1 to 2 million people have switched to its latest operating 
>system, despite the fact that it's shipped free on several million computers. 

The article concludes with this:

>Schiller and Apple had better be right. If Microsoft and other major 
>software developers bail from the OS X bandwagon, the fledgling platform 
>might not survive, let alone flourish.

Interesting times huh?

Regards,
M

This makes a lot of sense. I think there is a problem in the Mac community
itself. Too attached. I am going to switch to OS X as soon as Logic is
available in that format, perhaps sooner. I think MS is doing Apple a big
favor with this statement.

Regards

Paul

> From: Murray McDowall <murraymc@...>
> Reply-To: logic-ot@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:26:33 +1000
> To: logic-ot@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [L-OT] OSX and M$
> 
> Macophiles and Logic users might want to read this ...
> 
> http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=25871
> 
>> On the eve of Apple Computer's semi-annual MacWorld event, Microsoft has
>> dropped a bombshell on the company: Work harder to accelerate Mac OS X
>> sales, or Microsoft will exit the Mac market forever. This sentiment is one
>> shared by many Mac developers, as Mac OS X has not sold well at all, as
>> reported recently in WinInfo Daily UPDATE. Currently, Apple estimates that
>> as few as 1 to 2 million people have switched to its latest operating
>> system, despite the fact that it's shipped free on several million computers.
> 
> The article concludes with this:
> 
>> Schiller and Apple had better be right. If Microsoft and other major
>> software developers bail from the OS X bandwagon, the fledgling platform
>> might not survive, let alone flourish.
> 
> Interesting times huh?
> 
> Regards,
> M
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

>   I currently house 2 audio cards, 1 sound card, 1 DV
>card, 1 SCSI card and am now looking to purchase a VST
>DSP card that will take up the sixth and final slot on
>my MOBO.

are we talking mac here?

if so on a current  g4 you would want to use the agp slot for 
monitor, built in firewire for dv

scsi would be irrelevant - switch to firewire drives from built in

which would leave 4 pci - 2 audio, 1 sound(whatever that is) and 1 dsp

of course, you won't like this - but that is how I would do it on a g4

>  >   I currently house 2 audio cards, 1 sound card, 1 DV
>>card, 1 SCSI card and am now looking to purchase a VST
>>DSP card that will take up the sixth and final slot on
>  >my MOBO.
>
>are we talking mac here?
>
>if so on a current  g4 you would want to use the agp slot for
>monitor, built in firewire for dv
>
>scsi would be irrelevant - switch to firewire drives from built in
>
>which would leave 4 pci - 2 audio, 1 sound(whatever that is) and 1 dsp
>
>of course, you won't like this - but that is how I would do it on a g4

That's just about exactly what I was going to say.  In addition I 
would add that you may not want to stick with SCSI anymore either. 
Mac have two independent FireWire receptacles.  I recently got 120gig 
7200 rmp drive and a firewire case with a 911 Oxford chipset to put 
it in both for a little less than $300 US.   Although a super duper 
high end SCSI raid *might* be fast it kicks the ass of any SCSI rig 
*I* have used and its compact and hot plugable.  Whats more firewire 
2 is just about here and it's even twice as fast as SCSI 1.  So I 
really doubt that many people are going to be sticking with SCSI much 
longer.


BTW I too was wondering about the distinction between an audio and a 
"sound" card.

I wrote:


>Whats more firewire
>2 is just about here and it's even twice as fast as SCSI 1.

Somebody is going to jump all over me for that :-)  I meant to say 
twice as fast as Firewire 1.  I know there are some fast SCSI rigs 
and I don't know the exact specs so I do not know how firewire 2 
stacks up to a high end SCSI raid system.

--- Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote:
> >  >   I currently house 2 audio cards, 1 sound
> card, 1 DV
> >>card, 1 SCSI card and am now looking to purchase a
> VST
> >>DSP card that will take up the sixth and final
> slot on
> >  >my MOBO.
> >
> >are we talking mac here?
> >
> >if so on a current  g4 you would want to use the
> agp slot for
> >monitor, built in firewire for dv
> >
> >scsi would be irrelevant - switch to firewire
> drives from built in
> >
> >which would leave 4 pci - 2 audio, 1 sound(whatever
> that is) and 1 dsp
> >
> >of course, you won't like this - but that is how I
> would do it on a g4
> 
> That's just about exactly what I was going to say. 
> In addition I 
> would add that you may not want to stick with SCSI
> anymore either. 
> Mac have two independent FireWire receptacles.  I
> recently got 120gig 
> 7200 rmp drive and a firewire case with a 911 Oxford
> chipset to put 
> it in both for a little less than $300 US.  
> Although a super duper 
> high end SCSI raid *might* be fast it kicks the ass
> of any SCSI rig 
> *I* have used and its compact and hot plugable. 
> Whats more firewire 
> 2 is just about here and it's even twice as fast as
> SCSI 1.  So I 
> really doubt that many people are going to be
> sticking with SCSI much 
> longer.
> 
> 
> BTW I too was wondering about the distinction
> between an audio and a 
> "sound" card.
> 
  Your setup sounds great but it's just not practical
my SCSI card is high end and has a seek time of 3.4 ms
I haven't seen a 7200 rpm card(or a 10,00 rpm card for
that matter) come even close to that! My digital Video
card runs all my effects that takes the strain off my
cpu. Two audiowerk cards for audio recording and a
sound card witch acts as a sound module for my
controller. Spent a lot on my SCSI rig and I won't
throw it away. I guess i'll wait to see what Apple
does with there next generation machines.
                              Thanks for your help
                               Steve
 P.S. where talking PC here!


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>   Your setup sounds great but it's just not practical
>my SCSI card is high end and has a seek time of 3.4 ms
>I haven't seen a 7200 rpm card(or a 10,00 rpm card for
>that matter) come even close to that!

[snip]

>Spent a lot on my SCSI rig and I won't
>throw it away.



Yes high end SCSI raids are fast indeed.  OTOH fast *enough* is an 
entirely different kettle of fish.  The nice thing about doing it 
with firewire is that if you hit the performance wall with one (and I 
know of no one doing hard disc audio recording who says they have) 
You can still just add another one, put some of your project files on 
it and you will be back in business and the whole thing will still 
cost you a fraction of the price of SCSI .


>My digital Video
>card runs all my effects that takes the strain off my
>cpu.

I don't know which card you use but there are pretty high end Video 
cards in the AGP slots of new Macs and more on the way.  The down 
side is that they are quite expensive compared to the exact same ones 
configured for PCs.  What's really frustrating is that the really are 
the exact same cards and there are even sights on the net where 
people will tell you the firmware hacks that will make "incompatible" 
PC video cards work on a Mac.  Anyway the upshoot is you may not need 
a PCI card for digital video.


>Two audiowerk cards for audio recording

The audiowerks are a bit obsolete at this point and could be pretty 
effectively replaced by a single card from any one of a number of 
makers if the issue is PCI slots.

>and a
>sound card witch acts as a sound module for my
>controller.

Forgive me but I am still not understanding the "sound module for my 
controller" concept here.

On my Mac rig all native audio comes out of a Motu 828 is there some 
reason why you have to use a different card?

I also have a PT d24 Mix rig taking up 3 pci slots.

If I were you I would be thinking about another couple of options as well.

#1.  Do nothing, buy nothing.  If your stuff is doing what you want 
why bother?  Unless Apple surprises us all with some stunning 
hardware announcement I guarantee that you are not going to be 
noticing an major difference between LAWP and LAMP for at least a 
half a year, and it would not surprise me if it was a full year 
before there were really any noticeable differences between LA on the 
two platforms so taking action now is just as likely to leave you 
with regrets whereas just going on being productive will not.

#2.  Buy a mac to run LAM and Sync your video PC machine to it.  I do 
something similar I have a Mac and a PC.  I run virtual instruments 
on the PC when  the Mac gets maxed out.  I prefer having everything 
in one program and one place but if you are doing serious video 
editing that is not an option anyway.

Paul  wrote:
>This makes a lot of sense. I think there is a problem in the Mac community
>itself. Too attached. I am going to switch to OS X as soon as Logic is
>available in that format, perhaps sooner. I think MS is doing Apple a big
>favor with this statement.

If M$ follows through on its threat to drop OSX support it will be
interesting to see what happens. It was widely acknowledged in 1997 when
Microsoft invested in Apple (US $150 mill) and promised five years of
continued development of Office that no office => no mac. M$ is the largest
developer of Mac applications from all reports -- bigger than Adobe and all
the rest in terms of volume of products.

Apple is trying to get it's users to migrate away from what they are rusted
onto -- it's old interface -- to the new OSX interface. Some will like it
-- some won't. Also -- a lot of apps like audio apps and plugins will not
make the transition without modification/rewrites. 

There are similarities here with Intel and its ambitions for the Itanium
(IA64) chip series. Intel has a new 64 bit platform with some degree of
(low performance) backward compatibility with x86. It wants the high end
(multiprocessor servers) to migrate to IA64/Itanium  and eventually (2008?)
your granny will be emailing on it. 

In the short term this plan is going nowhere - they have sold a few
thousand chips. AMD has  a processor with 64 bit extensions to x86
(Hammer). This beast runs all existing x86 faster than current generations
and add 64 bit address space etc for higher end applications (eg addressing
more than 4 GB of memory). It seems likely that Hammer will murder the IA64
Itanium chips in the market. The problem is similar to the one that
confronts Apple:  getting a user base to change  platforms  (OS and
new/ported applications) is a tough job.

OSX and IA64 are undoubtedly techical advances -- whether people will leave
what they have money invested in, what they know and feel comfortable with
remains to be seen. Apple is probably in a better position to  force its
customers to move on. 

Regards,
Murray

Regards,
M

--- Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote:
> >   Your setup sounds great but it's just not
> practical
> >my SCSI card is high end and has a seek time of 3.4
> ms
> >I haven't seen a 7200 rpm card(or a 10,00 rpm card
> for
> >that matter) come even close to that!
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >Spent a lot on my SCSI rig and I won't
> >throw it away.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes high end SCSI raids are fast indeed.  OTOH fast
> *enough* is an 
> entirely different kettle of fish.  The nice thing
> about doing it 
> with firewire is that if you hit the performance
> wall with one (and I 
> know of no one doing hard disc audio recording who
> says they have) 
> You can still just add another one, put some of your
> project files on 
> it and you will be back in business and the whole
> thing will still 
> cost you a fraction of the price of SCSI .
> 
> 
> >My digital Video
> >card runs all my effects that takes the strain off
> my
> >cpu.
> 
> I don't know which card you use but there are pretty
> high end Video 
> cards in the AGP slots of new Macs and more on the
> way.  The down 
> side is that they are quite expensive compared to
> the exact same ones 
> configured for PCs.  What's really frustrating is
> that the really are 
> the exact same cards and there are even sights on
> the net where 
> people will tell you the firmware hacks that will
> make "incompatible" 
> PC video cards work on a Mac.  Anyway the upshoot is
> you may not need 
> a PCI card for digital video.
> 
> 
> >Two audiowerk cards for audio recording
> 
> The audiowerks are a bit obsolete at this point and
> could be pretty 
> effectively replaced by a single card from any one
> of a number of 
> makers if the issue is PCI slots.
> 
> >and a
> >sound card witch acts as a sound module for my
> >controller.
> 
> Forgive me but I am still not understanding the
> "sound module for my 
> controller" concept here.
> 
> On my Mac rig all native audio comes out of a Motu
> 828 is there some 
> reason why you have to use a different card?
> 
> I also have a PT d24 Mix rig taking up 3 pci slots.
> 
> If I were you I would be thinking about another
> couple of options as well.
> 
> #1.  Do nothing, buy nothing.  If your stuff is
> doing what you want 
> why bother?  Unless Apple surprises us all with some
> stunning 
> hardware announcement I guarantee that you are not
> going to be 
> noticing an major difference between LAWP and LAMP
> for at least a 
> half a year, and it would not surprise me if it was
> a full year 
> before there were really any noticeable differences
> between LA on the 
> two platforms so taking action now is just as likely
> to leave you 
> with regrets whereas just going on being productive
> will not.
> 
> #2.  Buy a mac to run LAM and Sync your video PC
> machine to it.  I do 
> something similar I have a Mac and a PC.  I run
> virtual instruments 
> on the PC when  the Mac gets maxed out.  I prefer
> having everything 
> in one program and one place but if you are doing
> serious video 
> editing that is not an option anyway.
> 
> I agree with all that you say but I was just
considering the switch to Mac to keep Logic, I'm not
looking to revamp my whole setup. Your right, if I was
willing to purchase all new devices then 4 slots would
be enough but it's just not practicle. Mac's are way
overpriced as it is and I'm willing to eat the
$2,000.00 for there low end machine. But to go out and
buy all new devices in addition to the Mac purchase
because they only provide 4 slot's is insane!
  Now my AGP graphics card is different than my PCI DV
card. I know that they make an AGP graphic's card w/DV
imaging capabilities but your talking at least
$1,000.00. It just makes no sense for me to buy a card
that does both just to free up a slot.
 As far as my sound card goes I may have mislead you.
What my sound card does is simple, without it I have
no sound. I'm not talking audio but rather midi. It
provides me with a wavetable synthesizer, there is no
on board audio on my mobo. Without it my computer is
silent. Now I could go out and purchase a sound module
for midi, but why? because Mac's only provide 4 slots,
again that's crazy!
 I know that my audiowerk cards are outdated and I was
looking to get a Delta 1010 just before Logic screwed
me. Now that's on hold while I figure this mess all
out.
 And your right in saying that I have nothing to worry
about for at least a year, my setup works fine for
now. I'm just trying to decide whether or not to
continue using Logic. If I do buy a Mac Imay have to
switch to Digital Performer based strictly on
principle!
                 With Regards
                       Steve

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>  And your right in saying that I have nothing to worry
>about for at least a year, my setup works fine for
>now. I'm just trying to decide whether or not to
>continue using Logic. If I do buy a Mac Imay have to
>switch to Digital Performer based strictly on
>principle!

This is the mentality I cannot understand at all.  People acting as 
if something is being taken away or there is some principle being 
violated.  I am a long time Mac user who was kind of looking forward 
to the possibilities I see for coming generations of PCs.   I even 
bought one.  Now that particular *potential*  is no longer there with 
LA, but what *exists* has not changed.   Nothing has been taken away 
whatsoever.  For trust-loyalty to be violated it has to have existed 
in the first place.  People will use whatever works best for them and 
the minute something looks better they switch.  If they stick with a 
product for a long time it is because it has been doing what they 
needed for a long time.   That's not loyalty.  It's pragmatism and 
there is nothing wrong with it but to change it's name and try to 
elevate it to a virtue is hypocrisy.  It's telling your favorite Thai 
whore who says she is planning to retire that she is betraying you 
her customer.

>my SCSI card is high end and has a seek time of 3.4 ms
>I haven't seen a 7200 rpm card(or a 10,00 rpm card for
>that matter) come even close to that! My digital Video
>card runs all my effects that takes the strain off my
>cpu. Two audiowerk cards for audio recording and a
>sound card witch acts as a sound module for my
>controller. Spent a lot on my SCSI rig and I won't
>throw it away. I guess i'll wait to see what Apple
>does with there next generation machines.
>                               Thanks for your help
>                                Steve
>  P.S. where talking PC here!

ok - understood

I would say - get as much out of scsi as you can ... delay any 
decisions in that area - the alternatives will only get better.

Its not really a matter of mac vs pc or numer of slots - just 
continue to work with what you have - 5.2 for Win will serve you 
(just as it would have in any case) for the next year.
Beyond that - you will still have the same choices hardware- wise. 
But the CPU's and peripherals available will be faster better - in 
other words the choice down the road will be much more clear.  In the 
meantime - make music.

It's telling your favorite Thai
> whore who says she is planning to retire that she is betraying you
> her customer.

Oh you old softy Dennis!!!
  Now I am not a habitue of thai whores Dennis and I may possibly have
missed a sublime experience there but surely mate it's more like wandering
down to your favourite knocking shop to find out it's been taken over by
some Multinational Pimpany who say you gotta join the club at twice the
market
rate for clubs of that sort ,and then pay the young lady also, oh and by the
way
we are shortly going to have the best bar in town but not just yet ..now do
you want a root or not.... if not piss off  !
             If you get my drift
                                              Cheers mate
                                                  Paul


               "There's been a disturbance in the force"
                                            Alec Guiness

--- Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote:
> > 
> This is the mentality I cannot understand at all. 
> People acting as 
> if something is being taken away or there is some
> principle being 
> violated
  Well here's my beef! Just prior to the announcement
that logic was to no longer support windows, I made
the upgrade. Without a word from the company on the
fate of windows support for the future, they basically
took my money and ran. Now this may be an ethical
business practice in your mind but I find it rather
"cheesey". To support a company(no matter how good
there product is) who treats there customers or soon
to be ex-customers in this manner is difficult at
best. I don't begrudge Emagic for doing what they did
,hey it's there company not mine. It's how they went
about doing it that ticks me off!
                               Regards, 
                                  Steve

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>   It's telling your favorite Thai
>>  whore who says she is planning to retire that she is betraying you
>>  her customer.
>
>Oh you old softy Dennis!!!
>   Now I am not a habitue of thai whores Dennis and I may possibly have
>missed a sublime experience there but surely mate it's more like wandering
>down to your favourite knocking shop to find out it's been taken over by
>some Multinational Pimpany who say you gotta join the club at twice the market
>rate for clubs of that sort

No it turns out to be exactly the market rate far clubs of that 
particular quality.  Some of her customers were just used to the 
others so they didn't know.  Any way she was spreading herself a 
little too thin and she discovered  that she could not only get a 
nice bonus but also provide a higher quality of service to a 
clientelle willing to pay for more comfortable surroundings for her 
to provide it in. So she is willing to work for the old clients in 
the old place for a while to come but she will not be taking on any 
new customers in the old joint.


>,and then pay the young lady also,

Actually the young lady was so happy about her new digs that she 
agreed to let you have the first one free just for old time sake and 
still in spite of her kindness she has to endure your abuse.



>  oh and by the way
>we are shortly going to have the best bar in town but not just yet ..now do
>you want a root or not.... if not piss off  !

Actually the bouncer said no such thing and it is just because he is 
a nice guy that he doesn't sue you for libel.  What he said was you 
are welcome to come now or come later and to take your time and go on 
enjoying what she is continuing to give which is not only just as 
good but is actually even better than it ever was.

>              If you get my drift

Yes I get your drift, your drift is off target and out to sea.

>--- Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote:
>>  >
>>  This is the mentality I cannot understand at all.
>  > People acting as
>>  if something is being taken away or there is some
>>  principle being
>>  violated
>   Well here's my beef! Just prior to the announcement
>that logic was to no longer support windows, I made
>the upgrade. Without a word from the company on the
>fate of windows support for the future, they basically
>took my money and ran.

You mean they didn't provide you the upgrade you paid for?  Or do you 
mean they did provide you the one you *paid* for but your just pissed 
off because you think they aren't going to *give* you something more 
because they have been so evil as to have given you things in the 
past and gotten you all used to getting stuff for free?  Incidentally 
as pathetic as that mind set is it is even more pathetic in light of 
the fact that there actually will in fact be a pretty major update 
pretty soon that will be free.

>Now this may be an ethical
>business practice in your mind but I find it rather
>"cheesey". To support a company(no matter how good
>there product is) who treats there customers or soon
>to be ex-customers in this manner is difficult at
>best. I don't begrudge Emagic for doing what they did
>,hey it's there company not mine. It's how they went
>about doing it that ticks me off!

How else would they go about it?   This is not a rhetorical question. 
I see this raised all the time and I am trying to figure out an 
alternate scenario that is both remotely realistic and that would 
satisfy people with the mind set that anything that does not benefit 
them personally must be by definition unethical.

--- Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote:
> >--- Dennis Gunn <dennisg@...> wrote:
> >>  >
> > How else would they go about it?   This is not a
> rhetorical question. 
> I see this raised all the time and I am trying to
> figure out an 
> alternate scenario that is both remotely realistic
> and that would 
> satisfy people with the mind set that anything that
> does not benefit 
> them personally must be by definition unethical.
> They should have provided me with the option to
upgrade or not based on the fact that windows would no
longer be supported!

> 


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At 05:03 PM 18/07/02 +0900, you wrote:
>>   It's telling your favorite Thai
>>>  whore who says she is planning to retire that she is betraying you
>>>  her customer.

Just a thought guys ... 

Perhaps it would be better if this edifying exchange 
were not carried on under the present subject heading.

Some of our more sheltered readers might get confused. 

Regards,
M

>They should have provided me with the option to
>upgrade or not based on the fact that windows would no
>longer be supported!


# 1  You are describing a situation that does not exist.  What 
e-magic said is that they will continue to do maintenance upgrades of 
LAWP. Windows is still supported and will continue to be supported. 
What they wont do is sell any more copies of LAWP after October 1st.

# 2.  You entered into a business deal where you purchased a specific 
product for a specific price.  Please check the terms of the license 
agreement.   It's all spelled out there.  e-magic lived up to their 
end of the deal right to the letter and yet accuse them of "taking 
your money and running.".  In other words you are accusing them of 
theft.

If the discussion is about ethics then I am trying to understand your 
conception of what is ethical.  I am not a Christian but according to 
the bible it is not just unethical but is actually a cardinal sin to 
"bear false witness against thy neighbor".  And that is basically a 
pretty good way to describe false attribution as in #1 or false 
accusation as in #2.  Are ethics things that only other people are 
supposed to have?

# 3.  How were they to let you know?  I don't know when you bought 
your upgrade but when 5.0 was released and probably even when 5.1.3 
was released no one at e-magic even had the vaguest I that the deal 
was going down.  How were they supposed to tell you what they didn't 
know themselves.  Even most of the staff did not know that they 
company was to be sold until the day the announcement was made 
publicly.  That may not seem "nice" to you but that's pretty much the 
way it goes when companies are bought or sold.  So again I am trying 
to figure out the "unethical" part.

If they are only really selling OSX to existing Apple customers, then 
of course, most of those people are going to have their existing 
software suites sorted out, and they aren't going to be itching to 
run out and spend money upgrading to the OSX versions of their 
software just for the heck of it. 

I think the way to sell OSX suites is pretty obvious - target people 
who don't already own any mac software. Sell OSX to people outside 
the existing Mac community. If they can't persuade enough traditional 
Windows users to switch to Apple's proprietary hardware (which, at 
the moment is a tough sell), then they'll have to make OSX 
available for other hardware. 

If someone is spending GBP2500 on a top-of-the-range Sony laptop, 
give them the opportunity of buying it with OSX installed, and you 
pretty much guarantee that they'll then buy a whole set of OSX apps 
to go with it. IMO, that's where the new sales are. 

=Erk=

I have been using OSX on one my macs, and its a beautiful OS - but it works a 
little different that OS 9.2. Its finicky  (changing the name of the 
applications folder to "applications folder (x)" completely and totally 
screwed up my system - no printing, no sherlock, etc.), and one bad font 
(which worked fine in 9.2) completely disabled Microslut Office X so it would 
not start up at all. I still have not gotten used to the system folder, and 
then the Users folder with my name and copies of some of the stuff. OS X 
won't work with music drivers as of now. And the biggest thing you should 
know ... you have to run classic all the time, but it is a memory hog. I have 
512 MB of Ram and even at that it slows down a lot!

So why change to OS X?

Thanks Taz, more useful info for those of us who are thinking of going Mac.
In fact I'd like to hear from PC users who have bought Mac's to run Logic-
how they got on etc...I wouldnt run office on it myself.

J.

--

From: TazmnianDv@... [mailto:TazmnianDv@...]
I have been using OSX on one my macs, and its a beautiful OS - but it works
a
little different that OS 9.2. Its finicky  (

So why change to OS X?

-

At 12:26 AM 7/17/2002 +1000, you wrote:
>Macophiles and Logic users might want to read this ... 
>
>http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=25871
>
>> On the eve of Apple Computer's semi-annual MacWorld event, Microsoft has 
>>dropped a bombshell on the company: Work harder to accelerate Mac OS X 
>>sales, or Microsoft will exit the Mac market forever. This sentiment is one 
>>shared by many Mac developers, as Mac OS X has not sold well at all, as 
>>reported recently in WinInfo Daily UPDATE. Currently, Apple estimates that 
>>as few as 1 to 2 million people have switched to its latest operating 
>>system, despite the fact that it's shipped free on several million
computers. 
>

The fact tat OSX has been slow to start (supposedly) is completely normal.
It's going to take a long time for users to migrate over. Most will require
that ALL of their apps be ported over first. I for one ca't switch until
Logic, Pro Tools, and a bunch of other apps are ported over, and even then
I will need to wait a while until they have be proven stable,etc. OS X will
be the standard Mac OS within the next few years, but anyone who thinks its
going to happen over night needs a reality check.Same goes for PT HD, it
will be a long time before all major studios switch over because they can't
afford to turn down the clients who still need the old system, or do
without they plugins that havent been ported over yet. Once everything has
been ported over and it has become dominant, the rest of the community will
go.It's not a matter of if in either case, just a matter of when.

Colin Miller