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ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Leon Heller

Version 4.0 of the excellent Pulsonix PCB software is now available:

http://www.pulsonix.com

Lot's of new features, including "track hugging", which was my idea. Start 
routing a track, select an object, enable Track Hugging, and the track will 
automatically 'hug' the object as closely as possible.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
leon.heller@...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller 

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RE: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Michael Rubitschka

And really cheap , only 7k$

Sorry I could not resist.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>From: "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@...>
>Reply-To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
>To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>,<msp430@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software
>Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 07:32:22 -0000
>
>Version 4.0 of the excellent Pulsonix PCB software is now available:
>
>http://www.pulsonix.com
>
>Lot's of new features, including "track hugging", which was my idea. Start
>routing a track, select an object, enable Track Hugging, and the track will
>automatically 'hug' the object as closely as possible.
>
>Leon
>--
>Leon Heller, G1HSM
>leon.heller@...
>http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
>
>---
>[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility
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>

Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Michael Rubitschka" <rubitschka@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software


> And really cheap , only 7k$
> 
> Sorry I could not resist.

It's cheaper then competitive products (Protel etc.)

Leon
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Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by charlesgrenz

Your right Leon, it is cheaper. I bought Protel 99 for 4K at the time,
then they bought Tasking and changed to DXP, then DXP 2004. By the
time we upgraded we spent about 7K, but the full price for the total
package that we now have is +10K.

I like the base price, but by the time I bought a couple of the other
modules to add on I am back to 10K again.

regards,
Charles

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@b...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Rubitschka" <rubitschka@h...>
> To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:30 AM
> Subject: RE: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software
> 
> 
> > And really cheap , only 7k$
> > 
> > Sorry I could not resist.
> 
> It's cheaper then competitive products (Protel etc.)
> 
> Leon
> ---
> [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
> to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
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>

Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "charlesgrenz" <charles.grenz@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:18 AM
Subject: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software


> Your right Leon, it is cheaper. I bought Protel 99 for 4K at the time,
> then they bought Tasking and changed to DXP, then DXP 2004. By the
> time we upgraded we spent about 7K, but the full price for the total
> package that we now have is +10K.
>
> I like the base price, but by the time I bought a couple of the other
> modules to add on I am back to 10K again.

It's got advantages over Protel etc. It's *much* easier to use and bugs get 
fixed immediately, for instance.

Leon 

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Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by charlesgrenz

I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older Protel
99. I am a manual type of routing guy anyway. I like the problem
solving portion of laying out my own board and the finial out come. I
rarely use the auto-router, but when I do it's great. In terms of bugs
the only one that bothers me is the 3D view portion. In the 5 versions
I have of both Protel 99 and DXP, that has never worked very well or
just plain out crashed the system. In terms of support, I always have
great support from them.

The other reason I did the DXP upgrade was for the better auto-router,
but most of all for the Live design feature that allows you to build a
FPGA and test it via the debug station. They also say that they will
have a ARM plugin for that this coming year.

We use the Tasking 51 compiler.

Charles

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Leon Heller" <leon.heller@b...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "charlesgrenz" <charles.grenz@s...>
> To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:18 AM
> Subject: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software
> 
> 
> > Your right Leon, it is cheaper. I bought Protel 99 for 4K at the time,
> > then they bought Tasking and changed to DXP, then DXP 2004. By the
> > time we upgraded we spent about 7K, but the full price for the total
> > package that we now have is +10K.
> >
> > I like the base price, but by the time I bought a couple of the other
> > modules to add on I am back to 10K again.
> 
> It's got advantages over Protel etc. It's *much* easier to use and
bugs get 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> fixed immediately, for instance.
> 
> Leon 
> 
> ---
> [This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
> to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
> currently using to read this email. ]
>

Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Rob Jansen

>     I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older Protel
>  99.

Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are only
one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned about
using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good Protel is
:-) )

I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any illegal
software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB design
tools that I can use for this.
Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
this.

Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined SMD and
through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
datafiles for production (never did this before).
And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...

Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it

Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by charlesgrenz

Hi Rob,

 I would stay away from Orcad. How about Pads?

regards,
Charles


--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Jansen" <rob@m...> wrote:
>
> >     I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older
Protel
> >  99.
> 
> Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are
only
> one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned
about
> using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good
Protel is
> :-) )
> 
> I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
> 'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any
illegal
> software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB
design
> tools that I can use for this.
> Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
> Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
> this.
> 
> Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
> available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined
SMD and
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
> layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
> datafiles for production (never did this before).
> And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
> versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...
> 
> Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it
>

Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Rob Jansen" <rob@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software


>>     I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older Protel
>>  99.
>
> Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are only
> one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned about
> using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good Protel is
> :-) )
>
> I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
> 'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any illegal
> software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB design
> tools that I can use for this.
> Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
> Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
> this.
>
> Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
> available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined SMD and
> through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
> layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
> datafiles for production (never did this before).
> And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
> versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...

EasyPC is very good:

http://www.numberone.com

I used it for years before going to Pulsonix.

Leon 

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Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Alexandre Guimaraes

Take a look at www.holophase.com . Their Circad Software is really a 
pleasure to use and the us$ 995,00 is reasonable for the quality of the 
software. The only big drawback is the library, it is really way too 
small... But drawning new packages is very easy.



----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Rob Jansen" <rob@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software


>>     I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older Protel
>>  99.
>
> Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are only
> one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned about
> using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good Protel is
> :-) )
>
> I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
> 'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any illegal
> software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB design
> tools that I can use for this.
> Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
> Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
> this.
>
> Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
> available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined SMD and
> through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
> layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
> datafiles for production (never did this before).
> And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
> versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...
>
> Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Matthew Kavalauskas

I have been using Eagle (www.cadsoft.de <http://www.cadsoft.de/> ) for
years and it is does everything I need it to.  Plus the price is
extremely reasonable. (There is a limited capability free version
available.)  I recently added the autorouter, but I usually manually
route.

 

Matt Kavalauskas

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lpc2000@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of charlesgrenz
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:12 AM
To: lpc2000@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

 

Hi Rob,

I would stay away from Orcad. How about Pads?

regards,
Charles


--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Jansen" <rob@m...> wrote:
>
> >     I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older
Protel
> >  99.
> 
> Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are
only
> one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned
about
> using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good
Protel is
> :-) )
> 
> I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
> 'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any
illegal
> software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB
design
> tools that I can use for this.
> Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
> Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
> this.
> 
> Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
> available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined
SMD and
> through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
> layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
> datafiles for production (never did this before).
> And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
> versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...
> 
> Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it
>







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Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by daedalworks@comcast.net

For Linux, check out gEDA (geda.seul.org).  It is an open-source package with schematic capture, simulation, layout, etc.  I haven't actually used it (yet), but it has an active developer community and you can't beat the price ;-)

--DLM
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-------------- Original message -------------- 
>     I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older Protel
>  99.

Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are only
one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned about
using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good Protel is
:-) )

I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any illegal
software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB design
tools that I can use for this.
Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
this.

Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined SMD and
through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
datafiles for production (never did this before).
And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...

Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it



SPONSORED LINKS Microprocessor Microcontrollers Pic microcontrollers 
8051 microprocessor 



YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Onestone

What really ticks me off abour protel (I haven't used orcad for years) 
is that, despite the price you don't even get a printed manual, and, to 
make matters worse it has one of the very worst 'HELP' systems I've ever 
come across. Even worse there are no decent third party books available. 
When you pay that much for a package the very least they could do is 
have the decency to throw in printed manuals. Also the newer versions 
come with FPGA development tools and a whole heap odf stuff I don't 
want, but they won't split the package, you have to buy them, I bought 
'98, but regretted it, and when that hits its use by date I will be 
lookign around for something better for the money.

Al

daedalworks@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>For Linux, check out gEDA (geda.seul.org).  It is an open-source package with schematic capture, simulation, layout, etc.  I haven't actually used it (yet), but it has an active developer community and you can't beat the price ;-)
>
>--DLM
>
>-------------- Original message -------------- 
>  
>
>>    I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older Protel
>> 99.
>>    
>>
>
>Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are only
>one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned about
>using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good Protel is
>:-) )
>
>I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
>'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any illegal
>software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB design
>tools that I can use for this.
>Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
>Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
>this.
>
>Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
>available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined SMD and
>through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
>layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
>datafiles for production (never did this before).
>And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
>versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...
>
>Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS Microprocessor Microcontrollers Pic microcontrollers 
>8051 microprocessor 
>
>
>
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
>
> Visit your group "lpc2000" on the web.
>  
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> lpc2000-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Onestone

This is even more expensive than protel! Then they ask extra for 
Schematic capture, library and package design tools, that are essential 
to even a basic working system, by the time you have even the basics 
you're looking at $11,000, that's without Spice, autorouter or 'high 
speed design' package. Damn, and I baulk at Protels prices, odds on no 
hard copy manual either. cOMPARE THIS TO eAGLE, NOT A BAD PACKAGE, IN 
FACT EASIER TO DRIVE THAN pROTEL IN MANY RESPECTS, AND FOR $800  you 
actually get a printed manual, and free tech support.

Cheers

Al

Leon Heller wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Version 4.0 of the excellent Pulsonix PCB software is now available:
>
>http://www.pulsonix.com
>
>Lot's of new features, including "track hugging", which was my idea. Start 
>routing a track, select an object, enable Track Hugging, and the track will 
>automatically 'hug' the object as closely as possible.
>
>Leon
>--
>Leon Heller, G1HSM
>leon.heller@...
>http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller 
>
>---
>[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
>to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
>currently using to read this email. ]
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Onestone" <onestone@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software


> This is even more expensive than protel! Then they ask extra for
> Schematic capture, library and package design tools, that are essential
> to even a basic working system, by the time you have even the basics
> you're looking at $11,000, that's without Spice, autorouter or 'high
> speed design' package. Damn, and I baulk at Protels prices, odds on no
> hard copy manual either.

Comes with printed manual.

Basic system includes schematic capture, library creation tools, package 
creation tools etc. The extra cost options aren't needed unless you are 
working with very complex parts and stuff like chip-on-board. I've got them 
but hardly ever use them.

$7250 (plus SPICE at $1495) includes everything most people will need.

Unlike Protel it works very well on a 1 GHz PC with 256k of RAM. The 
autorouter is very good, although I don't use it very much.

Leon 

---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
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RE: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Paul Curtis

Al,

> This is even more expensive than protel! Then they ask extra for 
> Schematic capture, library and package design tools, that are 
> essential 
> to even a basic working system, by the time you have even the basics 
> you're looking at $11,000, that's without Spice, autorouter or 'high 
> speed design' package. Damn, and I baulk at Protels prices, 
> odds on no 
> hard copy manual either. cOMPARE THIS TO eAGLE, NOT A BAD PACKAGE, IN 
> FACT EASIER TO DRIVE THAN pROTEL IN MANY RESPECTS, AND FOR $800  you 
> actually get a printed manual, and free tech support.

And EAGLE is written using Qt.  Horray!

-- Paul.

Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Robert Wood

>>  This is even more expensive than protel! Then they ask extra for
Schematic capture, library and package design tools, that are
essential to even a basic working system, by the time you have even the 
basics  you're looking at $11,000 <<

Has Protel got any better than it was in 1994/5? I persuaded our company 
to ditch it because it was such a terrible piece of crap. Having got fed 
up of the company I was working for and with whom we'd ditched Protel, I 
went to a job interview which lasted around three hours and was going 
really well - until I asked what CAD system they used. "Protel" was the 
answer.

I got me coat...

Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Paul Curtis" <plc@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software


> Al,
>
>> This is even more expensive than protel! Then they ask extra for
>> Schematic capture, library and package design tools, that are
>> essential
>> to even a basic working system, by the time you have even the basics
>> you're looking at $11,000, that's without Spice, autorouter or 'high
>> speed design' package. Damn, and I baulk at Protels prices,
>> odds on no
>> hard copy manual either. cOMPARE THIS TO eAGLE, NOT A BAD PACKAGE, IN
>> FACT EASIER TO DRIVE THAN pROTEL IN MANY RESPECTS, AND FOR $800  you
>> actually get a printed manual, and free tech support.
>
> And EAGLE is written using Qt.  Horray!

The user interface is very confusing, in spite of that. Most people are used 
to selecting something first, then doing something to it. Eagle is the other 
way round, for some reason.

Pulsonix used to use Qt, but they use something else for the latest version.

Leon 

---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
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Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Onestone

I just went from the ir published price lists. At least it's got a 
manual over protel, but I've just had a good look at Eagles web site,  
for a product that costs $800 they have an awful lot of information 
about it, and a lot of support wrt libs, custom scripts etc, and at $400 
I might even spring for the autorouter, even though I doubt I'll ever 
use it. AND it comes with a manual, but what i really like about it, and 
;iked about my old CAD package was the user programming language, and 
the full descriptions that seem to be avail;able regarding file 
structures etc. On protel this is just too arcane to bother about. I 
figure Eagle will be my next try out.

Cheers

Al

Leon Heller wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Onestone" <onestone@...>
>To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software
>
>
>  
>
>>This is even more expensive than protel! Then they ask extra for
>>Schematic capture, library and package design tools, that are essential
>>to even a basic working system, by the time you have even the basics
>>you're looking at $11,000, that's without Spice, autorouter or 'high
>>speed design' package. Damn, and I baulk at Protels prices, odds on no
>>hard copy manual either.
>>    
>>
>
>Comes with printed manual.
>
>Basic system includes schematic capture, library creation tools, package 
>creation tools etc. The extra cost options aren't needed unless you are 
>working with very complex parts and stuff like chip-on-board. I've got them 
>but hardly ever use them.
>
>$7250 (plus SPICE at $1495) includes everything most people will need.
>
>Unlike Protel it works very well on a 1 GHz PC with 256k of RAM. The 
>autorouter is very good, although I don't use it very much.
>
>Leon 
>
>---
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RE: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Paul Curtis

Hi Leon,

> > And EAGLE is written using Qt.  Horray!
> 
> The user interface is very confusing, in spite of that.

User interfaces are not the easiest thing to design.  Qt does not
inherently make a user interface logical, you can write junk in any
language.

> Most 
> people are used to selecting something first, then doing
> something to it.  Eagle is the other way round, for some reason.

Well, I'm sure I'll find out.  It's inexpensive even for team use and
the licensing terms are good.

> Pulsonix used to use Qt, but they use something else for the 
> latest version.

They probably got tired of being bled by Trolltech each year and with
the escalating costs associated with it.  The fact that you pay the same
for the Qt/Mac product as you do for Windows and Linux really upsets me,
because the OS X version of Qt is, to put it frankly, complete crap.

-- Paul.

Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Onestone

I've only ever used one version, protel '98 which my company bought in 
1999. We never nbothered with '99, I trialled it but hated the way it 
enforced its filing system on you. I was never a fan, it's non 
intuitive, does some really stupid things, that I still haven't figured 
out the reason for, is severaly limited when it comes to drawing odd 
shapes, hell even my old '87 EDA system could do that. And drawing odd 
pads, forget it. It's probably better than it was in 1994, but if I had 
to buy a package personally I wouldn't consider it when you stack it up 
against most of the cheaper options around, in fact many of the free 
packages are more capable and more flexible in many areas.

Cheers

Al

Robert Wood wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >>  This is even more expensive than protel! Then they ask extra for
>Schematic capture, library and package design tools, that are
>essential to even a basic working system, by the time you have even the 
>basics  you're looking at $11,000 <<
>
>Has Protel got any better than it was in 1994/5? I persuaded our company 
>to ditch it because it was such a terrible piece of crap. Having got fed 
>up of the company I was working for and with whom we'd ditched Protel, I 
>went to a job interview which lasted around three hours and was going 
>really well - until I asked what CAD system they used. "Protel" was the 
>answer.
>
>I got me coat...
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
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>

Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Tom Walsh

Rob Jansen wrote:

>>    I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older Protel
>> 99.
>>    
>>
>
>Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are only
>one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned about
>using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good Protel is
>:-) )
>
>I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
>'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any illegal
>software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB design
>tools that I can use for this.
>Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
>Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
>this.
>
>Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
>available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined SMD and
>through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
>  
>
You should be able to get a copy of EagleCAD for $400 per module: 
schematic, layout, autorouter.

While the Eagle libarian is not a glamorous as that of Protel or Orcad, 
it does the job.  I do consulting for embedded systems and often have to 
layout boards.  Eagle gave me what I needed: linux based (also available 
on Windows) PCB package which does inches/metric untils, up to 16 
layers, Gerber file output (what you send to the PCB house).

I did purchase the autorouter, but I've never found autorouters to be 
usefull, I had the money so I purchased the entire Eagle package for 
$1200 a few years ago.

Upgrades are fairly inexpensive, last upgrade cost me $300 ($100 per 
module).

You can find them at: http://cadsoft.de   They have a free version 
(limited board size and one sheet schematic) so you can try them out.

TomW



>layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
>datafiles for production (never did this before).
>And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
>versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...
>
>Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Tom Walsh - WN3L - Embedded Systems Consultant
http://openhardware.net, http://cyberiansoftware.com
"Windows? No thanks, I have work to do..."
----------------------------------------------------

Re: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-03 by Onestone

My old package was like that, you could initiate an action without 
speciifying the target, it was one of the things I liked. But what I 
really liked was the fact that it didn't use menus mostly, instead of 
having to go to a menu and select PLACE-TRACK for example, as per 
protel, if I wanted to start a track connecting to an existing pin I 
simply moved the cursor to a point close to tha pin, or wire endpoint 
and right clicked, to change track orientation I double clicked, to fix 
the track I left clicked, to start a track in mid air I left clicked, 
since what you do on schematics is place signals, and what you do on 
PCB;s is place tracks this seems too obvious to ignore to me. To move a 
signal or track you click on the point and drag, try that with protel. 
protel works in different ways between Schematic and Layout, how dumb is 
that! And this is in every aspect, even library maintenance, for example 
in SCH I can copy a part and then edit it and rename it, in layout I 
can't, or it requires a wholly different mechanicsm

Al

Leon Heller wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Paul Curtis" <plc@...>
>To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 6:59 PM
>Subject: RE: [lpc2000] ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software
>
>
>  
>
>>Al,
>>
>>    
>>
>>>This is even more expensive than protel! Then they ask extra for
>>>Schematic capture, library and package design tools, that are
>>>essential
>>>to even a basic working system, by the time you have even the basics
>>>you're looking at $11,000, that's without Spice, autorouter or 'high
>>>speed design' package. Damn, and I baulk at Protels prices,
>>>odds on no
>>>hard copy manual either. cOMPARE THIS TO eAGLE, NOT A BAD PACKAGE, IN
>>>FACT EASIER TO DRIVE THAN pROTEL IN MANY RESPECTS, AND FOR $800  you
>>>actually get a printed manual, and free tech support.
>>>      
>>>
>>And EAGLE is written using Qt.  Horray!
>>    
>>
>
>The user interface is very confusing, in spite of that. Most people are used 
>to selecting something first, then doing something to it. Eagle is the other 
>way round, for some reason.
>
>Pulsonix used to use Qt, but they use something else for the latest version.
>
>Leon 
>
>---
>[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
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>
>
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>

Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-04 by leon_heller

--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Onestone <onestone@b...> wrote:
>
> My old package was like that, you could initiate an action without 
> speciifying the target, it was one of the things I liked. But what 
I 
> really liked was the fact that it didn't use menus mostly, instead 
of 
> having to go to a menu and select PLACE-TRACK for example, as per 
> protel, if I wanted to start a track connecting to an existing pin 
I 
> simply moved the cursor to a point close to tha pin, or wire 
endpoint 
> and right clicked, to change track orientation I double clicked, to 
fix 
> the track I left clicked, to start a track in mid air I left 
clicked, 
> since what you do on schematics is place signals, and what you do 
on 
> PCB;s is place tracks this seems too obvious to ignore to me. To 
move a 
> signal or track you click on the point and drag, try that with 
protel. 
> protel works in different ways between Schematic and Layout, how 
dumb is 
> that! And this is in every aspect, even library maintenance, for 
example 
> in SCH I can copy a part and then edit it and rename it, in layout 
I 
> can't, or it requires a wholly different mechanicsm

That is basically how Pulsonix works. A track (PCB) or net 
(schematic) can be started anywhere just by double clicking. 
Schematic and PCB work the same way, in most cases. When my previous 
employer tried to get me to use Eagle, I found that it required about 
50% more mouse clicks than Pulsonix when doing a design. I refused to 
use it on health and safety grounds (I have suffered from RSI) and 
they let me use my own copy of Pulsonix, after a lot of arguing.

Leon

Leon

Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-04 by Onestone

To me its very much a cost issue. Eagle seems solid and competent. When 
I trialled 3V? a few years ago it seemed at least as good as protel on 
general usage, but not so good on library issues, i would have preferred 
it to Protel, but my then client/employer/partner (he was first a 
client, then apartner, then I worked for him)  insisted on Protel as 
they had used it in house for a while. Now it seems when you compare 
$800 vs $10,000 for protel or Pulsonix, they would have to be better by 
a country mile for me to justify spending the money on them, and, 
frankly I can't see it from here. 50% more mouse clicks has got to be 
better when used productively than when trying to find a match in 
Protels useless help system. I don't know about pulsonix, having never 
used it, but the price seems far too high for comparative functionality, 
ie  Pulsonix would have to have an awful lot more than fewer mouse 
clicks, a better librarian and some novel autoroute procedures (I don't 
autoroute anyway) to justify the price difference.

And referring to another thread, I don't think, in fact I know for sure 
that, in this business, you definitely don't get what you pay for, so 
price is not really a good measure of quality.

Cheers

Al

leon_heller wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>--- In lpc2000@yahoogroups.com, Onestone <onestone@b...> wrote:
>  
>
>>My old package was like that, you could initiate an action without 
>>speciifying the target, it was one of the things I liked. But what 
>>    
>>
>I 
>  
>
>>really liked was the fact that it didn't use menus mostly, instead 
>>    
>>
>of 
>  
>
>>having to go to a menu and select PLACE-TRACK for example, as per 
>>protel, if I wanted to start a track connecting to an existing pin 
>>    
>>
>I 
>  
>
>>simply moved the cursor to a point close to tha pin, or wire 
>>    
>>
>endpoint 
>  
>
>>and right clicked, to change track orientation I double clicked, to 
>>    
>>
>fix 
>  
>
>>the track I left clicked, to start a track in mid air I left 
>>    
>>
>clicked, 
>  
>
>>since what you do on schematics is place signals, and what you do 
>>    
>>
>on 
>  
>
>>PCB;s is place tracks this seems too obvious to ignore to me. To 
>>    
>>
>move a 
>  
>
>>signal or track you click on the point and drag, try that with 
>>    
>>
>protel. 
>  
>
>>protel works in different ways between Schematic and Layout, how 
>>    
>>
>dumb is 
>  
>
>>that! And this is in every aspect, even library maintenance, for 
>>    
>>
>example 
>  
>
>>in SCH I can copy a part and then edit it and rename it, in layout 
>>    
>>
>I 
>  
>
>>can't, or it requires a wholly different mechanicsm
>>    
>>
>
>That is basically how Pulsonix works. A track (PCB) or net 
>(schematic) can be started anywhere just by double clicking. 
>Schematic and PCB work the same way, in most cases. When my previous 
>employer tried to get me to use Eagle, I found that it required about 
>50% more mouse clicks than Pulsonix when doing a design. I refused to 
>use it on health and safety grounds (I have suffered from RSI) and 
>they let me use my own copy of Pulsonix, after a lot of arguing.
>
>Leon
>
>Leon
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-04 by Michel

Rob,

In the free software list, you can also find Kicad (a french tool) 
which runs either on Windows or Linux.

The main download site is located at :

http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/

Cheers,

Mike

> >     I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older 
Protel
> >  99.
> 
> Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs 
are only
> one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned 
about
> using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good 
Protel is
> :-) )
> 
> I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board 
for
> 'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any 
illegal
> software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB 
design
> tools that I can use for this.
> Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy 
Protel,
> Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools 
for
> this.
> 
> Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
> available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined 
SMD and
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
> layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
> datafiles for production (never did this before).
> And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
> versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...
> 
> Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it
>

Re: Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-04 by sebastien MARION

see : http://www.lis.inpg.fr/pages_perso/charras/LogicielKicad.html#English

All are GLP'ed.



>     I do not have to many complaints about DXP or even the older Protel
>  99.

Same over here. I use (used) Protel as a hobbyist, board designs are only
one-of and for my own personal use. Therefor I was not to concerned about
using an illegal version (as a plus I will tell others how good Protel is
:-) )

I am however getting into problems soon. I want to design a board for
'commercial' use and that's definitely not taking place using any illegal
software so I now have to search for other schematic entry and PCB design
tools that I can use for this.
Numbers and price will be this low that I cannot afford to buy Protel,
Pulsonix or Orcad so I started looking at free (Linux based) tools for
this.

Anyone having experience with these kind of tools (which ones are
available???). I need schematic entry plus PCB design for combined SMD and
through hole mounting components. I can do without autorouting and 2
layers should be enough (4 is nice) and it must be able to export
datafiles for production (never did this before).
And before I forget: I do not like to use the "1000 pin limit demo
versions", I always tend to need just that one pin more ...

Rob - would buy Protel/DXP if I could afford it




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Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software

2005-11-04 by Leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Onestone" <onestone@...>
To: <lpc2000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: ANN: New version of Pulsonix PCB software


> To me its very much a cost issue. Eagle seems solid and competent. When
> I trialled 3V? a few years ago it seemed at least as good as protel on
> general usage, but not so good on library issues, i would have preferred
> it to Protel, but my then client/employer/partner (he was first a
> client, then apartner, then I worked for him)  insisted on Protel as
> they had used it in house for a while. Now it seems when you compare
> $800 vs $10,000 for protel or Pulsonix, they would have to be better by
> a country mile for me to justify spending the money on them, and,
> frankly I can't see it from here. 50% more mouse clicks has got to be
> better when used productively than when trying to find a match in
> Protels useless help system. I don't know about pulsonix, having never
> used it, but the price seems far too high for comparative functionality,
> ie  Pulsonix would have to have an awful lot more than fewer mouse
> clicks, a better librarian and some novel autoroute procedures (I don't
> autoroute anyway) to justify the price difference.
>
> And referring to another thread, I don't think, in fact I know for sure
> that, in this business, you definitely don't get what you pay for, so
> price is not really a good measure of quality.

EasyPC is comparable to Eagle in price, and has many of the features of 
Pulsonix:

http://www.numberone.com

I used it for 20 years. It's just been updated to V9.

Leon 

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