MOTM

I have until Friday to decide if I want to keep my primo spot for the Feb
2002 NAMM show
in Anaheim, CA.

Although fun, non-stop talking/schmozing, bad food, no sleep and packing up
was "worth it"
from the experience point of view, the show cost me $6000 personally. As far
as I can tell, I got
exactly 2 sales as a result. I met 4 or 5 MOTM users (some completely
unexpected!), went to
the AH 'party', bothered Dieter Doepfer, and had dinner with Bob Moog and
Dave Smith (Sequential).

Did I mention this cost me $6000?

So, in order to EXHIBIT, I must have SOMETHING TO EXHIBIT in the booth. I
really don't want to ask
Robert Rich again, I tink in Feb he is on tour anyway in Europe.

I have a nice big wooden case I could take, but that means NO SEM FILTER
UNTIL APRIL if I do.
Why? I'd have to build modules to put in there, and NO, I don't want
everyone donating theirs because
I'd get it lost with my luck.

So, if you have ideas and suggestions, let me know ASAP.

Nothing like enough warning :) I will pay shipping both ways. Dave Fulton
lent me his system as well
last year.

Paul S.

Paul,

I can see your predicament.  I guess I would say "no" if it's going to:
- cost you six grand
- you only get two sales out of it (I'm assuming less than six grand)
- you end up with heartburn and insomnia
- it delays the SEM filter (and the original date would be...??)
- cost you six grand (ahem)

Hey, BTW, wasn't $6000 some kind of "deal" given the location you ended up
with?  ;-)

But seriously, I would think it would be good for business to be there, in
any case, especially given the good press you have been given over the past
year.  (Actually, it may be more bad not to be there.)  Maybe you could team
up with some other MOTM-compatible dudes (Metasonix?) and share the cost.
Also, inviting some of the synthesists and/or artists on this list might be
helpful to both you and them, especially if they have CDs to sell.  (Then
there's Elhardt's recorders and flutes playing live through the rafters -
that ought to make an impression. No job is too big for someone else to do,
eh?)  Just my 2 shekels.

I certainly wouldn't want to see a module delayed.  Unfortunately my rig
isn't ready for prime time yet (two standard 20U black oak racks - taking
forever) otherwise I'd offer it up in a heartbeat.

George
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Schreiber <synth1@...>
To: MOTM listserv <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 5:04 PM
Subject: [motm] Should I exhibit at NAMM?


> I have until Friday to decide if I want to keep my primo spot for the Feb
> 2002 NAMM show
> in Anaheim, CA.
>
> Although fun, non-stop talking/schmozing, bad food, no sleep and packing
up
> was "worth it"
> from the experience point of view, the show cost me $6000 personally. As
far

> as I can tell, I got
> exactly 2 sales as a result. I met 4 or 5 MOTM users (some completely
> unexpected!), went to
> the AH 'party', bothered Dieter Doepfer, and had dinner with Bob Moog and
> Dave Smith (Sequential).
>
> Did I mention this cost me $6000?
>
> So, in order to EXHIBIT, I must have SOMETHING TO EXHIBIT in the booth. I
> really don't want to ask
> Robert Rich again, I tink in Feb he is on tour anyway in Europe.
>
> I have a nice big wooden case I could take, but that means NO SEM FILTER
> UNTIL APRIL if I do.
> Why? I'd have to build modules to put in there, and NO, I don't want
> everyone donating theirs because
> I'd get it lost with my luck.
>
> So, if you have ideas and suggestions, let me know ASAP.
>
> Nothing like enough warning :) I will pay shipping both ways. Dave Fulton
> lent me his system as well
> last year.
>
> Paul S.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hey Paul -

I believe I first heard about MOTM from NAMM reports in the trade 
rags.  Those primed for Robert's review in EM and I became a 
customer.  So in a way, you got at least 3 customers out of the 
deal.  :)  The press really counts in spreading the word.

I have my system in a Raxxess heavy duty gigging rack with casters 
and the whole nine yards.  You know what's in there, and by January 
it'll be up to it's gills (I have 3 spaces left).  It's yours if you 
need it.

Mike

--- In motm@y..., "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@a...> wrote:
> I have until Friday to decide if I want to keep my primo spot for 
the Feb

> 2002 NAMM show
> in Anaheim, CA.
> ...

Paul,
My 2 clams:
Seems like the benefit/cost ratio is rather low.  It's one of these "If I
don't go and miss out on..." predicaments that we all face with incomplete
information.

George had a point about now that there is some momentum, that you may
have a larger benefit by going to this next NAMM.  However, from my little
window
(a) yes, it is always nice to have a hands on experience with a
product before buying, but given that you have (what I think is) a large
web/listserv visualization and that many of us (ordinary customers), those
that are interested in a quality modulars, never make it to NAMM, a
significant (financially) increase in the number of buyers via NAMM seems
tenuous, and

(b) would you make more, financially, by having a few more
buyers (and a little more exposure) at NAMM versus putting out a few more
very nice (and hopefully sought after) modules, like the SEM?  

Of course, you have to consider, Paul, that I am biased: I'm into growing
my motm+ modular, I don't care about NAMM, and I don't want to see you end
up in the loony bin :-).

Just my 2 clams (now I'll clam up), Jeff

I would only do it if you could show a new product, even if they were
prototypes.  A new product at NAMM would get you press in SOS,
Keyboard, Elec. Musician, Harmony-central, sonic-state, etc...  
Otherwise going there without a new product may get you no publicity
at all. 

Maybe you can work out a deal with Eric Barbour where you send him a
small 2 rail system, so he can display his 2 new tube modules.

Larry

(dreaming of a yellow UPS sticky on my door)



--- In motm@y..., "Paul Schreiber" <synth1@a...> wrote:
> I have until Friday to decide if I want to keep my primo spot for
the Feb
> 2002 NAMM show
> in Anaheim, CA.
> 
> Although fun, non-stop talking/schmozing, bad food, no sleep and
packing up
> was "worth it"
> from the experience point of view, the show cost me $6000
personally. As far
> as I can tell, I got
> exactly 2 sales as a result. I met 4 or 5 MOTM users (some
completely
> unexpected!), went to
> the AH 'party', bothered Dieter Doepfer, and had dinner with Bob
Moog and
> Dave Smith (Sequential).
> 
> Did I mention this cost me $6000?
> 
> So, in order to EXHIBIT, I must have SOMETHING TO EXHIBIT in the
booth. I
> really don't want to ask
> Robert Rich again, I tink in Feb he is on tour anyway in Europe.
> 
> I have a nice big wooden case I could take, but that means NO SEM
FILTER
> UNTIL APRIL if I do.
> Why? I'd have to build modules to put in there, and NO, I don't want
> everyone donating theirs because
> I'd get it lost with my luck.
> 
> So, if you have ideas and suggestions, let me know ASAP.
> 
> Nothing like enough warning :) I will pay shipping both ways. Dave
Fulton

> lent me his system as well
> last year.
> 
> Paul S.

There's got to be a better way to spend $6000.  MOTM got some good exposure
at your first NAMM, but at following shows the press is less likely to
publicize your efforts without significant module enhancements.

Here's an interesting comparison to make.  Take the $6K and amount of labor
to appear at NAMM and estimate the number of module sales that would result.
Then take that same $6K and labor hours and estimate how many new modules
could be developed.  Estimate the sales of those new modules to your
existing customers.  I'm guessing that the second option will give a greater
return on your investment of capital and labor.

John Loffink
microtonal@...

How much does a full page Ad in "Sound On Sound" cost?

Forget Future Music, probably forget Keyboard, Electronic Musician is 
getting warmer, but SOS is the highest quality mag out there.

Since there are Audiophiles out there I'll compare them to Stereo 
Review, Audio, Stereophile, and the Absolute Sound.

--- In motm@y..., "Microtonal" <microtonal@w...> wrote:
> There's got to be a better way to spend $6000.

I guess I'm in the monority here, because I think Paul should go.  
But I agree with larry that he should take some new stuff, and maybe 
also exhibit with other vendors that offer products that conform to 
MOTM standard (Event, Oakley, Metasonix).  The point is that there is 
some hay to be made on the standards issue, and Paul leads the way.

Also, I think Paul has got as many customers as he is going to get 
(give or take a few) from the current Web population.  More publicity 
from the trade rags might get the non-surfer crowd excited.  Hence, 
more new customers.

That much said, I would hate to see the SEM filter put off because of 
NAMM.  In fact, selfishly, I would hate to see *any* module delayed!  
But new customers means good business means more modules down the 
road.

Mike

--- In motm@y..., "Microtonal" <microtonal@w...> wrote:
> There's got to be a better way to spend $6000.  MOTM got some good 
exposure
> at your first NAMM, ...

Just grabbed the advertising rate sheet...

http://www.sound-on-sound.com/html/advert/advertise.pdf

--- In motm@y..., jpotter@i... wrote:
> How much does a full page Ad in "Sound On Sound" cost?

Payback on advertising is questionable for limited audience modulars.  Even
Analogue Solutions, Analogue Systems, Technosaurus and Doepfer don't
advertise in SOS, though they've all been reviewed by it and are more
readily available to the predominantly European audience.

I like SOS, but comparing it to audiophile magazines is questionable.  The
audience seems just as likely to be interested in cheap Korg and Roland
techno boxess as high end equipment.  You could say it covers both high and
low end equipment.

By the way, the new optional International Edition does not carry any ads to
reduce mailing costs.  That's the edition I get as it almost doubled my
subscription duration.

John Loffink
microtonal@...

----- Original Message -----

From: <jpotter@...>
To: <motm@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 9:31 PM
Subject: [motm] Re: Should I exhibit at NAMM?


> How much does a full page Ad in "Sound On Sound" cost?
>
> Forget Future Music, probably forget Keyboard, Electronic Musician is
> getting warmer, but SOS is the highest quality mag out there.
>
> Since there are Audiophiles out there I'll compare them to Stereo
> Review, Audio, Stereophile, and the Absolute Sound.
>
> --- In motm@y..., "Microtonal" <microtonal@w...> wrote:
> > There's got to be a better way to spend $6000.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I also think the fact that both Namm shows are looked upon almost as a joke
these days should weigh in as well. Use the power of the internet and I
mentioned to Paul a trip to Messe may be more worthwhile.  If you do go find a
better travel agent or use the net to shop for better deals and fly coach  : )
Jim

Microtonal wrote:

> 
> There's got to be a better way to spend $6000.  MOTM got some good exposure
> at your first NAMM, but at following shows the press is less likely to
> publicize your efforts without significant module enhancements.
> 
> Here's an interesting comparison to make.  Take the $6K and amount of labor
> to appear at NAMM and estimate the number of module sales that would result.
> Then take that same $6K and labor hours and estimate how many new modules
> could be developed.  Estimate the sales of those new modules to your
> existing customers.  I'm guessing that the second option will give a greater
> return on your investment of capital and labor.
> 
> John Loffink
> microtonal@...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In motm@y..., "Microtonal" <microtonal@w...> wrote:
>> Payback on advertising is questionable for limited audience 
modulars.  

Just throwing out an alternative - I think the same argument could 
apply to NAMM.  Here's a couple more alternatives - how about bumper 
stickers, refrigerator magnets, fake tattoos, or maybe a billboard or 
a blimp over the superbowl :)

>> I like SOS, but comparing it to audiophile magazines is 
questionable.  The audience seems just as likely to be interested in 
cheap Korg and Roland techno boxess as high end equipment.  You could 
say it covers both high and low end equipment.

I agree and I disagree - I think if you look at the readership of FM 
or KB there's about 1% that could care less about a modular like 
MOTM.  If you looked at EM or SOS I think the number would be 
substantially higher - I'm not saying it would be a majority by any 
means but, by the same token, the majority of people attending NAMM 
could care less about MOTM or synthesizers in general.

>> By the way, the new optional International Edition does not carry 
any ads to reduce mailing costs.  That's the edition I get as it 
almost doubled my subscription duration.

Excellent point!  I forgot about that - I've actually got an E 
subscription so I don't see the ads either.  As soon as that expires 
I'll pick up the Int'l sub.

Good points, though.

JP

I was always told that NAMM was a show where instrument manufacturers pushed 
their gear to retail stores and dealers, and that it wasn't an end user / 
musician's type show that some think it is.  That's why I was surprised to 
see MOTM and other small companies that sell direct, going to the show last 
year.  I'm an MOTM customer but I'm not allowed to go to the show so it 
doesn't seem to be the place for picking up customers since they aren't 
allowed there.

Although it's too bad I moved out of Torrance CA about 4 years ago, because I 
was only about 30 minutes away from Anaheim and could have easily driven my 
system there.  I used to go to Siggraph, NCGA and Wescon shows there all the 
time.

-Elhardt

>>I think if you look at the readership of FM or KB there's about 1% 
that could care less about a modular like MOTM.  

After re-reading, I see it should be "99% that could care less..." 
but you understand.

I personally think if/when you want to expand to Europe more I would exhibit 
at Musik Messe.  Much more of an analog synth crowd there as compared to NAMM.

Another option would be to partner with a bunch of small companies at NAMM 
and/or Messe to cut costs.  This is very common at Messe.

Ivan

This whole discussion brings up something that I have been curious
about for a very long time.  There is really only 1 music equipment
show in the US, NAMM.  

This show is for dealers / industry only, and has all kinds of musical
products from guitars to mixing boards to trumpets and yes, synths in
there somewhere too.

Last year was fun because there were several nice surprises there, one
of which was my discovery of MOTM and Paul.  I guess I am one of the 2.

But there is really no consumer / enthusiast level show that is
targeted to musicians, and is a place where Vendors can show "the new
stuff" off to the public.

If there was, that would be a much better place for Paul to have a
booth.  As far as I know places like Guitar Center and MARS will never
want to carry MOTM, it just is not mainstream enough for them.

Bruce

I don't know why everyone says NAMM is "industry" only. Have you seen some
of the people that come in there? I've been going for (...too long) and I
see teenagers, kids, groupie wannabes, etc that don't seemingly have
anything to do with the buying and selling of music products. (in the
business sense) There are lots of "consumers" that find their way into the
show, and frankly, they are the one's that keep it interesting. (wow, did
you see that...)

Tony Karavidas
Encore Electronics

http://www.EncoreElectronics.com

Designers of "The best MIDI to CV converter on the planet." -Keyboard Oct.
1997

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bruce@... [mailto:bruce@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 11:01 AM
> To: motm@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [motm] Re: Should I exhibit at NAMM?
>
>
> This whole discussion brings up something that I have been curious
> about for a very long time.  There is really only 1 music equipment
> show in the US, NAMM.
>
> This show is for dealers / industry only, and has all kinds of musical
> products from guitars to mixing boards to trumpets and yes, synths in
> there somewhere too.
>
> Last year was fun because there were several nice surprises there, one
> of which was my discovery of MOTM and Paul.  I guess I am one of the 2.
>
> But there is really no consumer / enthusiast level show that is
> targeted to musicians, and is a place where Vendors can show "the new
> stuff" off to the public.
>
> If there was, that would be a much better place for Paul to have a
> booth.  As far as I know places like Guitar Center and MARS will never
> want to carry MOTM, it just is not mainstream enough for them.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

tony@... writes:

>>I don't know why everyone says NAMM is "industry" only. Have you seen some 
of the people that come in there? I've been going for (...too long) and I see 
teenagers, kids, groupie wannabes, etc that don't seemingly have anything to 
do with the buying and selling of music products.<<

I'm sure if somebody wants to get in bad enough they can find somebody who 
knows somebody who can get them tickets.  But the show never was for the 
public, which is also indicated in the name N.A. "Music Merchants".  That's 
why I never went.

But I used to go to the yearly Goodman music show that was held on a couple 
floors of a hotel.  All the synthesizer companies were there showing their 
stuff to the public.  But that show no longer exists.

-Elhardt