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2011-08-04 by vrazomatt
I was wondering why the M12 mod. matrix was never retroactively implemented in the Xpander? It's all software, so it seems like an update would've been easy. (And "Name" is just so lonely in the Misc page:)).
2011-08-04 by Tony Cappellini
I was wondering why the M12 mod. matrix was never retroactively implemented in the Xpander? It's all software, so it seems like an update would've been easy. (And "Name" is just so lonely in the Misc page:)).
2011-08-04 by vrazomatt
What do you mean? They both have the same displays. --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> wrote:
> > It's not just a matter of FW, you need another display > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:18 PM, vrazomatt <vrazomatt@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > I was wondering why the M12 mod. matrix was never retroactively implemented > > in the Xpander? It's all software, so it seems like an update would've been > > easy. (And "Name" is just so lonely in the Misc page:)). > > > > > > >
2011-08-04 by Tony Cappellini
What do you mean? They both have the same displays.
--- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, Tony Cappellini wrote:
>
> It's not just a matter of FW, you need another display
>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:18 PM, vrazomatt wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > I was wondering why the M12 mod. matrix was never retroactively implemented
> > in the Xpander? It's all software, so it seems like an update would've been
> > easy. (And "Name" is just so lonely in the Misc page:)).
> >
> >
> >
>
2011-08-04 by Karl Schmeer
The only difference in the front panel is an extra button and led to toggle between the voices 1-6 and 7-12. So thinking about just adding the firmware from an M12 and then switching off the unavailable voices sounds plausible at first, but: The Xpander has CV ins, which the matrix 12 lacks. So if even if someone copied the ROMs from an M12 and was successful in getting it to work in an Xpander. you would still lose the code to control the CV inputs. As Tony suggests it would have to be a custom rewrite. Best Regards Karl ________________________________
From: vrazomatt <vrazomatt@...> To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, August 3, 2011 10:18:58 PM Subject: [xpantastic] Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? I was wondering why the M12 mod. matrix was never retroactively implemented in the Xpander? It's all software, so it seems like an update would've been easy. (And "Name" is just so lonely in the Misc page:)).
2011-08-04 by PeWe
It's all software, so it seems like an update would've been easy.
2011-08-04 by PeWe
Hi Karl ! That is ! best PeWe Am 04.08.2011 08:59, schrieb Karl Schmeer:
> > So if even if someone copied > the ROMs from an M12 and was successful in getting it to work in an > Xpander. you would still lose the > code to control the CV inputs. > > > Best Regards > > Karl >
2011-08-04 by Tony Cappellini
>>and was successful in getting it to work in an Xpander. you would still lose the
>>code to control the CV inputs.
2011-08-04 by Tony Cappellini
>>and was successful in getting it to work in an Xpander. you would still lose the
>>code to control the CV inputs.
Surely, this could be an option given to the user.
2011-08-04 by vrazomatt
Karl, I presume you are talking about the 6 cv/gate inputs (not the CV pedal inputs, which I assume the M12 has as well)? If so, there is no direct CV-as-mod-source ability now, so I'm not sure why this would have to be addressed in the mod-matrix? From my understanding, the mod matrix is just a compendium of all mod routings, addressed though the already existing "misc" page, so no additional coding would be necessary. Anyways, I guess this is all just academic unless someone feels like writing something up!:)
> > Am 04.08.2011 08:59, schrieb Karl Schmeer: > > > > So if even if someone copied > > the ROMs from an M12 and was successful in getting it to work in an > > Xpander. you would still lose the > > code to control the CV inputs. > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > Karl > > >
2011-08-04 by Karl Schmeer
Right back at ya :-) Karl ________________________________ From: PeWe <ha-pewe@...> To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, August 4, 2011 3:05:24 AM Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? Hi Karl ! That is ! best PeWe Am 04.08.2011 08:59, schrieb Karl Schmeer:
>So if even if someone copied >the ROMs from an M12 and was successful in getting it to work in an Xpander. you > >would still lose the > >code to control the CV inputs. > > >Best Regards > >Karl >
2011-08-04 by Karl Schmeer
Hi Tony, Well, you could do alot if the software was rewritten. But to do that you would need development tools from that era, like a 6809 Emulator/debug system and so forth. To me it would be easier to adapt a modern proccessor to the Xpanders voice board and display I/O etc. It blows my mind, how today you could put that entire digital board on a thumbnail. Still not an easy job though :-) Best Regards Karl ________________________________
From: Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> To: xpantastic@...m Sent: Thu, August 4, 2011 9:08:36 AM Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? >>and was successful in getting it to work in an Xpander. you would still lose the >> >> >>>code to control the CV inputs. > Surely, this could be an option given to the user. A certain key combination at power on would decide if the user wants CV inputs or Matrix Mod display. Additionally, a dedicated button press would be needed to enable the Matrix Mod display, but this is easily done. There are many mod sources I don't use so I would gladly sacrifice on of those buttons. I would easily give up the CV inputs for the Matrix Mod display
2011-08-04 by Karl Schmeer
Hi Matt, I should have been more clear. I am assuming the digital boards of both the Xpander and the M12 are the same. I really don't know if they are, but if so, it would seem you could take a set of coppied ROMs from an M12 and put them into an Xpander. Giving the Xpander the Modulation list page. However since the M12 roms never supported the 6 CV/gate inputs they would not exsist to the firmware. On th M12, the modulation page gives you a list of all 20 modulation routings. You can change the amount or the destination. I find it most useful to delete unused ones when I need more for some reason. But there is a bug. If you access the modulation page, for some reason it turns off any quantization you may have set up. Best Regards Karl ________________________________
From: vrazomatt <vrazomatt@...> To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, August 4, 2011 10:56:27 AM Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? >Karl, >I presume you are talking about the 6 cv/gate inputs (not the CV pedal inputs, >which I assume the M12 has as well)? If so, there is no direct CV-as-mod-source >ability now, so I'm not sure why this would have to be addressed in the >mod-matrix? >From my understanding, the mod matrix is just a compendium of all mod routings, >addressed though the already existing "misc" page, so no additional coding would > >be necessary. >Anyways, I guess this is all just academic unless someone feels like writing >something up!:) > > Am 04.08.2011 08:59, schrieb Karl Schmeer: > > > > So if even if someone copied > > the ROMs from an M12 and was successful in getting it to work in an > > Xpander. you would still lose the > > code to control the CV inputs. > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > Karl > > >
2011-08-04 by PeWe
I think, it is a well designed, relatively intuitive to use and reliable machine as it is. I never needed the mod-matrix display of a Matrix-12 in my Xpander since I buyed it in the late 80th because I was able to remember the modulations during programming,- and there are the ears too. These machines aren�t made to do everything w/ the eyes and if someone wants that, there are the computers and editor applications. I�ve found the detune page much more important for quick work w/ the Matrix 12,- and I would never give up the CV inputs for some visualization as long there�s other CV gear existing in the arsenal. PeWe Am 05.08.2011 01:02, schrieb Karl Schmeer:
> > > Still not an easy job though :-) > > __________________ > From: Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@... <mailto:cappy2112%40gmail.com>> > To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com <mailto:xpantastic%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thu, August 4, 2011 9:08:36 AM > Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? > > > > I would easily give up the CV inputs for the Matrix Mod display > > >
2011-08-04 by PeWe
You mean,- w/ a Matrix-12, if you�ve set up any quantized modulation or quantized portamento, these settings would be canceled by accessing the modulation page ? Really ? If yes and I�d know this as a user, I�d never access this page, which renders it useless. Am 05.08.2011 01:21, schrieb Karl Schmeer:
> > > > But there is a bug. If you access the modulation page, for some reason > it turns > off any quantization you may have set up. > > Best Regards > > Karl >
2011-08-04 by Tony Cappellini
>>like a 6809 Emulator/debug system and so forth.
>>To me it would be easier to adapt a modern proccessor to the Xpanders voice
>>board and display I/O etc.
I'm sure you can get beta code out to us by Monday though ;-)>>Still not an easy job though :-)
2011-08-05 by vrazomatt
Karl, The mod matrix page is accessed through the "Misc" page, correct? So the implementation is based on hardware that already exists on the Xpander i.e. you wouldn't be giving up any other buttons. So the big question is: would the mod matrix become available if you used M12 roms in the Xpander? Has anyone tried? I too could easily give up the cv/gate ins... --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:
> > Hi Matt, > > I should have been more clear. I am assuming the digital boards of both the > Xpander and the M12 are the same. > I really don't know if they are, but if so, it would seem you could take a set > of coppied ROMs from an M12 and put them into an Xpander. Giving the Xpander > the Modulation list page. However since the M12 roms never supported > > the 6 CV/gate  inputs they would not exsist to the firmware. > > On th M12, the modulation page gives you a list of all 20 modulation routings. > You can change the amount or the destination. I find it most useful to delete > unused ones when I need more for some reason. > > But there is a bug. If you access the modulation page, for some reason it turns > off any quantization you may have set up. > > Best Regards > > Karl > > > ________________________________ > From: vrazomatt <vrazomatt@...> > To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, August 4, 2011 10:56:27 AM > Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? > > >Karl, > > >I presume you are talking about the 6 cv/gate inputs (not the CV pedal inputs, > >which I assume the M12 has as well)? If so, there is no direct CV-as-mod-source > > >ability now, so I'm not sure why this would have to be addressed in the > >mod-matrix? > > > >From my understanding, the mod matrix is just a compendium of all mod routings, > > >addressed though the already existing "misc" page, so no additional coding would > > > >be necessary. > > >Anyways, I guess this is all just academic unless someone feels like writing > >something up!:) > > > > > Am 04.08.2011 08:59, schrieb Karl Schmeer: > > > > > > So if even if someone copied > > > the ROMs from an M12 and was successful in getting it to work in an > > > Xpander. you would still lose the > > > code to control the CV inputs. > > > > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > Karl > > > > > >
2011-08-06 by Karl Schmeer
Hi Matt, >The mod matrix page is accessed through the "Misc" page, correct? So the >implementation is based on hardware that already exists on the Xpander i.e. you >wouldn't be giving up any other buttons. Yep >So the big question is: would the mod matrix become available if you used M12 >roms in the Xpander? Has anyone tried? I too could easily give up the cv/gate >ins... AFAIK it has never been tried before. I would want to take a long serious look at the schematics and hardware for each synth before I would even try it. Best Karl ________________________________ From: vrazomatt <vrazomatt@...> To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, August 5, 2011 10:17:15 AM Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? --- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:
> > Hi Matt, > > I should have been more clear. I am assuming the digital boards of both the > Xpander and the M12 are the same. > I really don't know if they are, but if so, it would seem you could take a set > of coppied ROMs from an M12 and put them into an Xpander. Giving the Xpander > the Modulation list page. However since the M12 roms never supported > the 6 CV/gate  inputs they would not exsist to the firmware. > On th M12, the modulation page gives you a list of all 20 modulation routings. > > You can change the amount or the destination. I find it most useful to delete > unused ones when I need more for some reason. > But there is a bug. If you access the modulation page, for some reason it turns > > > off any quantization you may have set up. > > Best Regards > > Karl > > > ________________________________ > From: vrazomatt <vrazomatt@...> > To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thu, August 4, 2011 10:56:27 AM > Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? > > >Karl, > > >I presume you are talking about the 6 cv/gate inputs (not the CV pedal inputs, > > > >which I assume the M12 has as well)? If so, there is no direct >CV-as-mod-source > > > >ability now, so I'm not sure why this would have to be addressed in the > >mod-matrix? > > > >From my understanding, the mod matrix is just a compendium of all mod >routings, > > > >addressed though the already existing "misc" page, so no additional coding >would > > > > >be necessary. > > >Anyways, I guess this is all just academic unless someone feels like writing > >something up!:) > > > > > Am 04.08.2011 08:59, schrieb Karl Schmeer: > > > > > > So if even if someone copied > > > the ROMs from an M12 and was successful in getting it to work in an > > > Xpander. you would still lose the > > > code to control the CV inputs. > > > > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > Karl > > > > > >
2011-08-06 by Tony Cappellini
>>AFAIK it has never been tried before. I would want to take a long serious look
2011-08-06 by Karl Schmeer
________________________________
From: Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...m> To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, August 6, 2011 10:10:51 AM Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Re: Why no Xpander mod. matrix implementation? >>AFAIK it has never been tried before. I would want to take a long serious >>look >The Matrix 12 ROMS will try to find the 2nd voice board which the Xpander >doesn't have. >This *may* cause an error condition which keeps the CPU from completing >its initialization routine. Good Point Tony. I was thinking, you could just turn off the voices 7 - 12 in the master page. Your right, it could never be that easy. Karl