Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

I've been looking at speakers and PA systems, and none seem to grab 
my interest. Quite a predicament.

Should I get a power amp and a non-powered active speaker? Should I 
get a powered, active speaker and not worry about a seperate power 
amp? Should I just get a guitar amp? I honestly don't know. I'd need 
it for playing at houses and small venues...I wanted a floor monitor 
but none of them that I can find are powered. I'd have to get a power 
amp. Anyone know what I should do? Those of you that have speakers 
and such, what's a good speaker for a price cap of about $300. Don't 
need the most powerful thing in the world, but something with a nice 
kick to it. Need it to be able to produce those low end base and 
floor tom sounds. Just put in your input to help me out if you would. 
It'd be very, very helpful to me.

On Wed April 7 2004 3:10 pm, supernovanexus wrote:
> I've been looking at speakers and PA systems, and none seem to grab
> my interest. Quite a predicament.


I have a Behringer KX-1200 PA/keyboard amp (for around $260), and it's plenty 
loud with a tight power supply (no muddy sound) and lots of input available 
for a decent-sized band (4).

Stephanie

Ok, I'll look into a system like that. What's the wattage?

Any other stereo system ideas?

Ok, I have a few systems within my price range...wonder what you guys 
think about them. They would be used for band monitoring, and 
possibly for smaller venues.

Nady MPM4130 PA210 Package
http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--NDYPA2

Nady MPM4130 PS112 Package
http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--NDYPA3

Passport P150 Portable System
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/PASSPORT_P150_.html

Audio Choice by Sound Tech C100 Portable PA System
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040408063227064202106058810989
/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/630130/

Squier 4-Channel PA System
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040408063227064202106058810989
/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/608003/

Kustom KPA804 PA Package
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=040408063227064202106058810989
/g=live/s=packaged/search/detail/base_pid/632200/

Has anyone had experience with any of these systems? Or if anyone has 
knowledge in this area, please tell me what you think. Please give me 
your honest and sincere input, it would be very helpful to me. I 
should be able to get my DTXpress II/III SD system in about 4 weeks 
so I'm happy about that, but I have to find a package I can use for 
some sound that's not weak, but also isn't the $3000 professional 
packages either. Thanx for any input.

In my last port, the last 3 links are screwed up because they went to 
a second line. The info in the second line needs to be included. 
Sorry bout that.

>From: "supernovanexus" <supernovanexus@...>
*snip*
Just put in your input to help me out if you would.
>It'd be very, very helpful to me.

As far as speakers, i have heard good things about the Yamaha S115V Club V 
Loudspeakers.  Local shop says he rarely has people bring them in for repair 
and have great bottom end.

You could start with a single speaker and a powered mixer.  Then add a 2nd 
speaker later if you would like.  Power it with something like a Behringer 
PMX880S.  Others may suggest a dif mixer.  I just know the speakers are 
great.


Joe

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I have also heard some very nice things about the Nady and Passport 
systems...I know how the passport one is b/c I've heard it being 
used. Has anyone had experience with the Nady speakers and systems?

How about http://www.musiciansbuy.com/MB/item.asp?ic=B300&Tp= for $350

and http://www.musiciansbuy.com/MB/item.asp?ic=UB1002&Tp= for $60

Just one more option....

Are you wanting stereo right away?

Joe

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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "supernovanexus" 
<supernovanexus@y...> wrote:
> Ok, I have a few systems within my price range...wonder what you 
guys 
> think about them. They would be used for band monitoring, and 
> possibly for smaller venues.

I have my doubts about all of them; they all appear to be in the same 
bag. The Kustom KPA 100, which is similar, received a decent 
endorsement for controlled home use but not for live situations. The 
bass tends to break up and the sound to deteriorate when pushed 
toward its limits. E-drums are demanding instruments dynamically and 
tonally. Little PAs and amps might serve some purpose at home if you 
don't attempt to reproduce the dynamic range and frequency response 
that the kit can deliver, but if you have to sacrifice these 
characteristics, you may as well split time with headphones and the 
best keyboard amp that you can afford (as Stephanie said). I wish 
that I knew more about the dedicated e-drum monitors that Yamaha 
recently issued for use with their kits. The price is right, but, 
even with them, I'd be careful of doing anything more than self-
monitoring.

Yeah that looks nice. Maybe I should just go for a very nice studio 
monitoring system, because most places that have people play are VERY 
small or have their own PA system built in. I'm kinda leaning towards 
getting a system I can use at home and for just monitoring the drums 
for me and the band to hear on stage. Can anyone gimme some ideas for 
somthing like that? Studio monitoring seems to be what would suit me 
best...I got to see a few monitoring systems like that at a church 
band kick off thing yesterday (3 bands). So I'm not entirely 
sure...thanx for the input, its helping me out so much!

On Wed April 7 2004 7:30 pm, supernovanexus wrote:
> Ok, I'll look into a system like that. What's the wattage?

The wattage for the Behringer KX-1200 is:

(Please note that it is a 3-way PA speaker, not a two-way)
woofer - 150W into 4 Ohms
high midrange - 120 into 8 Ohms
tweeter - piezo type

Stephanie

MAybe a better question...What hertz range should I get to support 
the low end...basically how low in the range would I need it to get 
good kick? I know everyth ing possible about electronic drum kits, 
its just the speakers I am clueless about. =(

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "supernovanexus" 
<supernovanexus@y...> wrote:
> MAybe a better question...What hertz range should I get to support 
> the low end...basically how low in the range would I need it to get 
> good kick? I know everyth ing possible about electronic drum kits, 
> its just the speakers I am clueless about. =(

If you want to do justice to the frequency range of an e-drum kit, 
you've got to cover as much of the spectrum from 30hz to 18khz as 
budget and electronics will allow. You may not be able to hear all of 
the extreme bottom and top ends, but you can feel them. How much of 
this sound is audible depends on environment, your age, and the 
extent of your hearing damage. Bass can be a little tricky. Some 
designs sacrifice low end content for a punchier delivery, and some 
are able to get enough of both. Accuracy in the treble is important, 
but a little high end roll off isn't necessarily a bad thing, since a 
shrill treble can be uncomfortable. Plus, if your system's power 
isn't up to the kit's dynamic range, the amp/speaker combination will 
break up, distort, etc., regardless of the manufacturer's specs. 
Listening under the proper conditions before you buy is advised, if 
at all possible, and I realize that it isn't. That's why forums were 
born.

Alright, sounds pretty good. I might build a personal monitoring 
system =o. Maybe not...who knows. Actually, I think I'm gonna get a 
nice powered speaker and a portable mixer.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "supernovanexus" 
> <supernovanexus@y...> wrote:
> > Ok, I have a few systems within my price range...wonder what you 
> guys 
> > think about them. They would be used for band monitoring, and 
> > possibly for smaller venues.
> 
> I have my doubts about all of them; they all appear to be in the 
same 
> bag. The Kustom KPA 100, which is similar, received a decent 
> endorsement for controlled home use but not for live situations. 
The 
> bass tends to break up and the sound to deteriorate when pushed 
> toward its limits. E-drums are demanding instruments dynamically 
and 
> tonally. Little PAs and amps might serve some purpose at home if 
you 
> don't attempt to reproduce the dynamic range and frequency 
response 
> that the kit can deliver, but if you have to sacrifice these 
> characteristics, you may as well split time with headphones and 
the 
> best keyboard amp that you can afford (as Stephanie said). I wish 
> that I knew more about the dedicated e-drum monitors that Yamaha 
> recently issued for use with their kits. The price is right, but, 
> even with them, I'd be careful of doing anything more than self-
> monitoring.

Hey! Guys!
I'm new to this forum, but glad to be here! Liberatusvirus, we've 
spoken before. I have a DTXtremeIIS on order and am concerned about 
the Yamaha home monitors also. I am planning to get the MS50/100DR 
with the new kit, but can find little feedback on their performance. 
My needs are for in-home only, but even there, I don't want a tinny 
sounding kick drum!! I am actively searching for reviews and will 
post anything I find. Thanks
Dan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "dancheak" <cheak@i...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> Hey! Guys!
> I'm new to this forum, but glad to be here! Liberatusvirus, we've 
> spoken before. I have a DTXtremeIIS on order and am concerned about 
> the Yamaha home monitors also. I am planning to get the MS50/100DR 
> with the new kit, but can find little feedback on their 
performance. 
> My needs are for in-home only, but even there, I don't want a tinny 
> sounding kick drum!! I am actively searching for reviews and will 
> post anything I find. Thanks

Hey Dan (aka Cheakster),

Good to hear from you. Anything you find on the new Yamaha monitors 
will be great. Last I heard, Midwest Percussion was giving one away 
for each purchase of the DTXTIIS. I wouldn't hesitate to ask the guys 
at Riks whether they have any firsthand experience with it. I've 
tried the Roland PM-3, with the Session kit, and I liked it, but not 
necessarily for the money. I wouldn't be surprised if the bigger 
Yamaha were a lot like it. 

Ed

I tried the Roland PM-3, with the Session kit, and I liked it, but 
not 
> necessarily for the money. I wouldn't be surprised if the bigger 
> Yamaha were a lot like it. 
> 
> Ed

I agree, but the PM3 has an extra 10" woofer and 50Watt satellites. 
It's probably a little stronger. I would much rather spend the $299 
vs $700 but only if the sound is adequate...then there's always 
eBay! Honestly, I'm getting E's to be quiet, and expect to use 
h/phones mostly, but there will be those times......
Riks only sells the 100Watt, Drumbalaya's "Ed" is getting feedback 
for me...we'll see
Thanks for the reply.
I'll post when I hear something, or I'll choose one and review
Later
Dan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Cheak" <cheak@i...> wrote:
> I agree, but the PM3 has an extra 10" woofer and 50Watt satellites. 
> It's probably a little stronger. I would much rather spend the $299 
> vs $700 but only if the sound is adequate...then there's always 
> eBay! Honestly, I'm getting E's to be quiet, and expect to use 
> h/phones mostly, but there will be those times......
> Riks only sells the 100Watt, Drumbalaya's "Ed" is getting feedback 
> for me...we'll see
> Thanks for the reply.
> I'll post when I hear something, or I'll choose one and review

Dan,

I don't think that the 10 watts difference on the satellites amounts 
to anything. The extra 10" woofer might, but you can always (or 
almost always) move the woofer cabinet to the corner of a room at 
home to increase bass response. I realize that the MSRP between the 
PM-3 and Yamaha MS100-DR is only $100, but the street price might be 
better, and if the bass is lacking (I'd be surprised), you could 
attach a cheap butt shaker to your throne. I'm really curious about 
the Yamaha. Let me know what Ed says, even if you decide to spring 
for it and give us a review.

Ed

> 
> Dan,
> 
> I don't think that the 10 watts difference on the satellites 
amounts 
> to anything. The extra 10" woofer might, but you can always (or 
> almost always) move the woofer cabinet to the corner of a room at 
> home to increase bass response. I realize that the MSRP between 
the 
> PM-3 and Yamaha MS100-DR is only $100, but the street price might 
be 
> better, and if the bass is lacking (I'd be surprised), you could 
> attach a cheap butt shaker to your throne. I'm really curious 
about 
> the Yamaha. Let me know what Ed says, even if you decide to spring 
> for it and give us a review.
> 
> Ed

Good points, Ed
This is a basement room that has a slight echo. I plan to stay with 
Yamaha..just justifying the extra $300 for the 50 more Watts(90 
including satellites) and out-jacks. I've got a loose 12" passive 
subwoofer from H/T equipment I might be able to use somehow if 
needed!???!! You know it will "all be good" after I get it going...I 
won't even remember this "agony". I'll let you know what I hear/do
Dan

The idea sounds cool...there are two sets. One is $299 and the other 
is $599, depending on power. I think its more worth it to get 
something in a better power range if you ask me...but who knows. I 
have decided to just move on to personal monitor speakers and am 
giveing the Yamaha personal monitors a look into. Also am looking at 
a bunch of other monitor systems, some are quite good as I have 
heard, seen, and used a few different ones. Might look into those? 

-Zack-

> 
>  Let me know what Ed says, even if you decide to spring 
> for it and give us a review.
> 
> Ed

Good News, Ed!
The other Ed sent me a reply from a previous customer who bought the 
MS50DR last month. He claims he gets FULL RANGE response with plenty 
of power( in an in-home application similar to mine). He said to 
recommend it with confidence! Of course, I don't know him, but would 
expect him to know if it lacks enough power and depth to drive the 
kick drum. It's always good to hear an owner's opinion- that's why 
these forums are so great!!!
Later
Dan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Cheak" <cheak@i...> wrote:
> Good News, Ed!
> The other Ed sent me a reply from a previous customer who bought 
the 
> MS50DR last month. He claims he gets FULL RANGE response with 
plenty 
> of power( in an in-home application similar to mine). He said to 
> recommend it with confidence! Of course, I don't know him, but 
would 
> expect him to know if it lacks enough power and depth to drive the 
> kick drum. It's always good to hear an owner's opinion- that's why 
> these forums are so great!!!

Excellent. Go for it. The price is right, and I'm sure that yamaha 
optimized the 50DR for the module. As far as abstract power is 
concerned, 50 watts isn't all that inferior to 100 watts. As you 
probably know, the ability to play twice as loud requires a 
logarithmic power of two, not merely twice the power. In fact, more 
power often has greater advantages for soft playing than for loud 
playing (at home, anyway), though not necessarily at this low level. 
Discounting sudden peaks and transients, which do require more power, 
most playing takes place within a range (at reasonable listening 
volumes) that 50 watts can manage as well as 100. I can't wait to 
find out how you do. Ed Morin comes through again.

Ed

--- 
> Excellent. Go for it. The price is right, and I'm sure that yamaha 
> optimized the 50DR for the module. As far as abstract power is 
> concerned, 50 watts isn't all that inferior to 100 watts. As you 
> probably know, the ability to play twice as loud requires a 
> logarithmic power of two, not merely twice the power. In fact, 
more 
> power often has greater advantages for soft playing than for loud 
> playing (at home, anyway), though not necessarily at this low 
level. 
> Discounting sudden peaks and transients, which do require more 
power, 
> most playing takes place within a range (at reasonable listening 
> volumes) that 50 watts can manage as well as 100. I can't wait to 
> find out how you do. Ed Morin comes through again.
> 
> Ed

I can't wait either!! Now, if only the DTXIIS would show up......
BTW I've asked for the frequency response specs for the two monitors 
directly from Yamaha just to verify what depths they'll reach. 
Yamaha is good at omitting "little" details on their releases and 
spec sheets. Bright side= I'm becoming a better "surfer"

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Cheak" <cheak@i...> wrote:
> I can't wait either!! Now, if only the DTXIIS would show up......
> BTW I've asked for the frequency response specs for the two 
monitors 
> directly from Yamaha just to verify what depths they'll reach. 
> Yamaha is good at omitting "little" details on their releases and 
> spec sheets. Bright side= I'm becoming a better "surfer."

Specs for electronics are also notioriously inflated. Anybody who's 
been around the audio world for any length of time will tell you that 
subwoofers are especially subject to grandiose figures, but rolloff 
and room nodes can make an enormous defference in what you actually 
hear and feel. I would expect the Yamahas to reach down to 40 hz or 
so without too much decibel loss, which would certainly be adequate. 
Personally, I'd prefer punchy to bloated/indistinct, anyway. Did your 
store confirm the delivery date?  The earliest that I, through OGD, 
have heard is still May, though I'm not inclined to doubt your source 
too strongly.

Ed

>. Did your 
> store confirm the delivery date?  The earliest that I, through 
OGD, 
> have heard is still May, though I'm not inclined to doubt your 
source 
> too strongly.
> 
> Ed
Ed,
They are sounding a little less confident in their availability. 
Rik "expects" them this week, but really will only say that they 
HAVEN'T shipped yet. Personally, I think I have a long wait ahead of 
me..at least I'm taking that approach to save sanity. I had 
forgotten what it's like to be a kid waiting on Christmas!!!
BTW, I agree w/ "punchy"

From: Dan Cheak

 " They are sounding a little less confident in their availability. 
Rik "expects" them this week, but really will only say that they 
HAVEN'T shipped yet. Personally, I think I have a long wait ahead of 
me..at least I'm taking that approach to save sanity. I had 
forgotten what it's like to be a kid waiting on Christmas!!!
BTW, I agree w/ "punchy" 

 I personally believe that the hihat packaging problem on the RHH-130 on the
Dtxpress IIIsp, may have the most impacted on the ship date on the Dtxtreme
IIS, since they share the same hihat.
 
I still going through the new Dtxtreme IIS manual. I am going page by page
to highlight want features were added or deleted or changed (as well as all
2000+ voices) from the Dtxtreme (orig.), that way people can download the
Dtxtreme manual from the Yamaha site and refer to my review of the changes
to see what the new Dtxtreme IIS is all about.
 
OGD 

 
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Also am looking at 
> a bunch of other monitor systems, some are quite good as I have 
> heard, seen, and used a few different ones. Might look into those? 
> 
> -Zack-

Zack,
do you have any particular monitor recomendations of those you've 
heard and used? I'm speaking of low to mid level for home use only.
Thanks
Dan

>  I personally believe that the hihat packaging problem on the RHH-
130 on the
> Dtxpress IIIsp, may have the most impacted on the ship date on the 
Dtxtreme
> IIS, since they share the same hihat.
>  
> I still going through the new Dtxtreme IIS manual. I am going page 
by page
> to highlight want features were added or deleted or changed (as 
well as all
> 2000+ voices) from the Dtxtreme (orig.), that way people can 
download the
> Dtxtreme manual from the Yamaha site and refer to my review of the 
changes
> to see what the new Dtxtreme IIS is all about.
>  
> OGD
        OGD,
I think you are dead-on with the HH problem delay. That's O.K.! The 
only thing worse than having to wait is getting a defective product 
that I can't use and have to return. 
Wow! That sounds like a lot of work (w/ the manual)..I might even 
get my new kit by then..hehe
Seriously, I'm sure that will be a great help to those "on the 
fence", wheras I've plowed through the fence and am half way to the 
next field.....whew! I'm losin' it, aren't I???
Thanks
bah


 
> 
>  
> 
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> use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information 
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I'm not completely good on this subject...but here are the ones I 
have used Pintch sets on that are worthy of applause. The Fender 
Passport systems are nice to use, as they can take those low end 
sounds without loosing power/volume...probably one of the best 
portable systems on the market. They come in different sizes and 
specs. Behringer monitors, JBL Monitors (I think thats the company), 
and there is one other company, I'll have to get back to you on that 
one. The one I can't rememeber is the company I am Buying some studio 
monitors from.

-Zack-

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "supernovanexus" 
<supernovanexus@y...> wrote:
> I'm not completely good on this subject...but here are the ones I 
> have used Pintch sets on that are worthy of applause. The Fender 
> Passport systems are nice to use, as they can take those low end 
> sounds without loosing power/volume...probably one of the best 
> portable systems on the market. They come in different sizes and 
> specs. Behringer monitors, JBL Monitors (I think thats the 
company), 
> and there is one other company, I'll have to get back to you on 
that 
> one. The one I can't rememeber is the company I am Buying some 
studio 
> monitors from.
> 
> -Zack-

Thanks Zack!
Don't knock yourself out. I'll probably stick with the Yammi's to go 
with the new Yammi kit. I appreciate your response and will check 
those out that you mentioned.Good luck on your choice too.

Lol...ok. Yeah I might go with the Yamaha system too. One problem 
though is I'm a junior in High school and don't have a very big 
budget, and I'm working my tail off to get the money I need.

-Zack-