Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:46 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP and partitioning curves


(snip earlier)
>
> Kevin, Martin etal
>
> I've been away at a graduation for a few days and I see there's
> been
> lots of action about partitioning and new workflows.
>
> I'm not much for pre-announcing things -- but I guess I've got to
> say
> some about QuadToneRIP.   In between a bunch of other things
> I've
> managed to upgrade to a new version.
>
> First QuadToneRIP 2.0 now has all the obvious stuff:
> 1) Separate control of all 4, 6, and 7 ink epson printers.
> 2) All curves are internally 16 bit to match the gimp-print
> internals.
> 3) blending of two curves for neutral--to--toned ink sets.

Roy,

Being on Windows I'm afraid I haven't followed QT-RIP any better than
IJC/OPM. It too needs to be included in the discussion of software that
offers both a "canned" and detailed control approach.

Sounds like you have the potential to do what Sundance is doing with the
Septone inks and Pixelpixasso, that is have two sets of 3 gray inks in the
printer with a single black and use software to blend say warm and cool
grays as desired. Or am I getting this wrong?
>
> After working for a while with these "raw" 16-bit curves, I found
> that
> partitioning at this level is very simple.  So the new and exciting
> thing is another program I'm calling QuadProfile.  With a couple
> of very straightforward calibration steps to measure the relative
> densities of the various inks, all the partitioning curves are
> generated automatically.  This works for any set and any number
> of inks.  The generated curves give a monotonically increasing
> density but the exact shape can be customized.  Adding toner to
> the gray is fairly easy but manual so far.

Is this all written down some place on the net where people can go and check
it out? I know you have probably posted it but it can't hurt to put it out
there again.
>
> I'm sure this will raise lots of questions so here's a few answers:
>
> System?
> This is a Mac OS X system -- Linux if you do the port.

Being a Mac dummy, does mean you cannot do what people are considering with
OPM. Buy a cheap used Mac G3 and use it as a print server? How much
computing power do you need to run QT-RIP?

>
> Printers?
> Any Epson printer supported by Gimp-print is possible.  I'm
> figuring on all the 4-digit model numbers, and several of the
> 3-digit models (860,870,890,960,980).  Others?

Well there seems to be a real interest in Canon printers.
>
> When?
> The basic QuadToneRIP code has been running for quite a
> while.
> The QuadProfile system is working on my computer, but it's
> currently several programs and shell scripts to connect it all
> together.  I've been working on putting this all in one program
> and one descriptor file.  I have a lot of printing that I need to
> do this month, so work on this is lower priority -- sorry.  If
> anyone is familar with running shell scripts and the Terminal
> program, a beta version with shell scripts can be used.  Email
> me at
> quadtone <at> harrington <dot> com

Shell scripts? Terminal program? You lost me there. How familar with the Mac
and OS X does a person need to be to work with it at this point?
>
> Densitometer?
> It's certainly a very useful tool, but I've been able to get good
> results trying a flatbed scanner for the partitioning.  Contrast
> decisions can for the most part be done visually.
>
Thanks for the info,
Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin 
Wesley" <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> 
> Roy,
> 
> Being on Windows I'm afraid I haven't followed QT-RIP any 
better than
> IJC/OPM. It too needs to be included in the discussion of 
software that
> offers both a "canned" and detailed control approach.
> 
> Sounds like you have the potential to do what Sundance is 
doing with the
> Septone inks and Pixelpixasso, that is have two sets of 3 gray 
inks in the
> printer with a single black and use software to blend say warm 
and cool
> grays as desired. Or am I getting this wrong?

Sure, you can easily use those inks.   But I would think you
could actually make better use of 7 inks.   Like a photo and
a matte black,  or  toners that would make it easy to split tone.
Maybe 4 grays and c,m and y to make any tone you like.
The thing I like is the flexibility to decide on your own
personal scheme.

On my 7500, my plan is to use 5 grays and 1 toner so I can
get neutral prints as good as the 1160 even though the
7500 has much larger dots.  The sepia prints are less 
important to me but I'll still have that capability.  You asked
earlier whether all these new workflows could produce 
better prints -- I'm hoping yes because I can taylor the ink
set to what the printer needs and what I consider the most
important.


> >
> > After working for a while with these "raw" 16-bit curves, I 
found
> > that
> > partitioning at this level is very simple.  So the new and 
exciting
> > thing is another program I'm calling QuadProfile.  With a 
couple
> > of very straightforward calibration steps to measure the 
relative
> > densities of the various inks, all the partitioning curves are
> > generated automatically.  This works for any set and any 
number
> > of inks.  The generated curves give a monotonically 
increasing
> > density but the exact shape can be customized.  Adding toner 
to
> > the gray is fairly easy but manual so far.
> 
> Is this all written down some place on the net where people 
can go and check
> it out? I know you have probably posted it but it can't hurt to put 
it out
> there again.

I'm working on that.  Descriptions of what and how seem to
take by far the most time.

> >
> > I'm sure this will raise lots of questions so here's a few 
answers:
> >
> > System?
> > This is a Mac OS X system -- Linux if you do the port.
> 
> Being a Mac dummy, does mean you cannot do what people 
are considering with
> OPM. Buy a cheap used Mac G3 and use it as a print server? 
How much
> computing power do you need to run QT-RIP?

Well it does have to run OS X which is a little more demanding
but with extra memory I would think a G3 would do it.  I've
got to get around to loading a old iBook as see for myself.

> 
> >
> > Printers?
> > Any Epson printer supported by Gimp-print is possible.  I'm
> > figuring on all the 4-digit model numbers, and several of the
> > 3-digit models (860,870,890,960,980).  Others?
> 
> Well there seems to be a real interest in Canon printers.

So far I know nothing about Canons but there are in the
gimp code. so its within the realm.

> >
> > When?
> > The basic QuadToneRIP code has been running for quite a
> > while.
> > The QuadProfile system is working on my computer, but it's
> > currently several programs and shell scripts to connect it all
> > together.  I've been working on putting this all in one program
> > and one descriptor file.  I have a lot of printing that I need to
> > do this month, so work on this is lower priority -- sorry.  If
> > anyone is familar with running shell scripts and the Terminal
> > program, a beta version with shell scripts can be used.  
Email
> > me at
> > quadtone <at> harrington <dot> com
> 
> Shell scripts? Terminal program? You lost me there. How 
familar with the Mac
> and OS X does a person need to be to work with it at this 
point?

I've probably made too much of a deal about this.  It mostly
boils down to text editting a description file and running a
couple programs, instead of a cute graphical interface.
For someone who has never used a Mac, its like me who
has pretty much never used windows.

> >
> > Densitometer?
> > It's certainly a very useful tool, but I've been able to get good
> > results trying a flatbed scanner for the partitioning.  Contrast
> > decisions can for the most part be done visually.
> >
> Thanks for the info,
> Martin

Roy

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP and partitioning curves


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin
> Wesley" <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> >
> > Roy,
> >
> > Being on Windows I'm afraid I haven't followed QT-RIP any
> better than
> > IJC/OPM. It too needs to be included in the discussion of
> software that
> > offers both a "canned" and detailed control approach.
> >
> > Sounds like you have the potential to do what Sundance is
> doing with the
> > Septone inks and Pixelpixasso, that is have two sets of 3 gray
> inks in the
> > printer with a single black and use software to blend say warm
> and cool
> > grays as desired. Or am I getting this wrong?
>
> Sure, you can easily use those inks.   But I would think you
> could actually make better use of 7 inks.   Like a photo and
> a matte black,  or  toners that would make it easy to split tone.
> Maybe 4 grays and c,m and y to make any tone you like.
> The thing I like is the flexibility to decide on your own
> personal scheme.

Roy,

The flexibility sounds really great. A black, 3 grays and low gamut C, M and
Y inks have been a goal that has been discussed in the past many time. The
Spetone inks are a 7 system and there might be an advantage in that they are
printing with 6 different grays that vary in hue as well as tone. It will be
interesting to see what develops.
>
> On my 7500, my plan is to use 5 grays and 1 toner so I can
> get neutral prints as good as the 1160 even though the
> 7500 has much larger dots.  The sepia prints are less
> important to me but I'll still have that capability.  You asked
> earlier whether all these new workflows could produce
> better prints -- I'm hoping yes because I can taylor the ink
> set to what the printer needs and what I consider the most
> important.

I hope we can both make it to the Bay Area meeting and that you bring
samples!
>
>
> > >
> > > After working for a while with these "raw" 16-bit curves, I
> found
> > > that
> > > partitioning at this level is very simple.  So the new and
> exciting
> > > thing is another program I'm calling QuadProfile.  With a
> couple
> > > of very straightforward calibration steps to measure the
> relative
> > > densities of the various inks, all the partitioning curves are
> > > generated automatically.  This works for any set and any
> number
> > > of inks.  The generated curves give a monotonically
> increasing
> > > density but the exact shape can be customized.  Adding toner
> to
> > > the gray is fairly easy but manual so far.
> >
> > Is this all written down some place on the net where people
> can go and check
> > it out? I know you have probably posted it but it can't hurt to put
> it out
> > there again.
>
> I'm working on that.  Descriptions of what and how seem to
> take by far the most time.

Yeah not a lot of thrill in documentation but at some point you will have to
bite the bullet at least to the extent that others get on board. Then
someone else might be able to expand upon it.
>
> > >
> > > I'm sure this will raise lots of questions so here's a few
> answers:
> > >
> > > System?
> > > This is a Mac OS X system -- Linux if you do the port.
> >
> > Being a Mac dummy, does mean you cannot do what people
> are considering with
> > OPM. Buy a cheap used Mac G3 and use it as a print server?
> How much
> > computing power do you need to run QT-RIP?
>
> Well it does have to run OS X which is a little more demanding
> but with extra memory I would think a G3 would do it.  I've
> got to get around to loading a old iBook as see for myself.

Keep us posted on this or anyone else who gives it a try on a G3. Are you
printing directly from PS or from QT-RIP as a seperate operation? The
ability to follow the cheap print server approach would make it much more
accessable. In fact if both QT-RIP and OPM worked under such a setup it
would make the extra investment more appealing.
>
> > >
(snip earlier)
> >
> > Well there seems to be a real interest in Canon printers.
>
> So far I know nothing about Canons but there are in the
> gimp code. so its within the realm.
>
(snip earlier)
> >
> > Shell scripts? Terminal program? You lost me there. How
> familar with the Mac
> > and OS X does a person need to be to work with it at this
> point?
>
> I've probably made too much of a deal about this.  It mostly
> boils down to text editting a description file and running a
> couple programs, instead of a cute graphical interface.
> For someone who has never used a Mac, its like me who
> has pretty much never used windows.

Sounds more like DOS than Windows. Typing in commands at a prompt type
stuff. The Windows users are not going to be any more experienced with that
sort of thing than the Mac users at this point. For myself having learned
Fortran on a key punch machine I could probably deal with it but would need
some kind of description of what to do.

Martin

Hi Martin-

I am running OSX on my wife's iMac- I think it's a G3 400 or 500.  I don't
see any reason you couldn't run QuadToneRip on such a machine- although be
aware that since you are printing from PS, you will need the ram to open up
those huge 4x5 Howtek files!  ;^0

Also, you will definitely (IMHO) need a second hard drive (or at least room
for the two systems on your primary drive)- but not a big deal with today's
prices.

As far as it sounding "more like DOS than windows," be careful, buddy,
them's close to fighting words for certain Unix geeks I know. ;^)


Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, MA USA

on 6/6/03 11:40 PM, Martin Wesley wrote:

> Keep us posted on this or anyone else who gives it a try on a G3. Are you
> printing directly from PS or from QT-RIP as a seperate operation? The
> ability to follow the cheap print server approach would make it much more
> accessable. In fact if both QT-RIP and OPM worked under such a setup it
> would make the extra investment more appealing.


 
>>> Shell scripts? Terminal program? You lost me there. How
>> familar with the Mac
>>> and OS X does a person need to be to work with it at this
>> point?
>> 
>> I've probably made too much of a deal about this.  It mostly
>> boils down to text editting a description file and running a
>> couple programs, instead of a cute graphical interface.
>> For someone who has never used a Mac, its like me who
>> has pretty much never used windows.
> 
> Sounds more like DOS than Windows. Typing in commands at a prompt type
> stuff. The Windows users are not going to be any more experienced with that
> sort of thing than the Mac users at this point. For myself having learned
> Fortran on a key punch machine I could probably deal with it but would need
> some kind of description of what to do.
> 
> Martin

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Bill Morse" <willym@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP and partitioning curves


> Hi Martin-
>
> I am running OSX on my wife's iMac- I think it's a G3 400 or 500.  I don't
> see any reason you couldn't run QuadToneRip on such a machine- although be
> aware that since you are printing from PS, you will need the ram to open
up
> those huge 4x5 Howtek files!  ;^0

Bill,

Thanks for the info. So if you need to print directly from PS using QuadTone
RIP you would also need to buy a Mac version of PS?
>
> Also, you will definitely (IMHO) need a second hard drive (or at least
room
> for the two systems on your primary drive)- but not a big deal with
today's
> prices.

I don't know this is all sounding pretty costly to get into if you are not
already on a Mac.
>
> As far as it sounding "more like DOS than windows," be careful, buddy,
> them's close to fighting words for certain Unix geeks I know. ;^)

Uh-oh! Another platform war!

Martin

> Thanks for the info. So if you need to print directly from PS 
> using QuadTone RIP you would also need to buy a Mac version of PS?

You can set up the printer as a network printer and print directly from
your own computer to the RIP. You wouldn't need an extra license for
that.

Instead of a mac you could also use any old PC with Linux for
QuadToneRIP. It's not easy to set up though...

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Well, actually, it should print from any program that will open the image,
so if you save out a flattened tif, it should open in the free OSX image
viewer.  As for the hard drive, they're about a dollar a gig, no?

Bill

on 6/7/03 3:23 AM, Martin Wesley wrote:

> Thanks for the info. So if you need to print directly from PS using QuadTone
> RIP you would also need to buy a Mac version of PS?
>> 
>> Also, you will definitely (IMHO) need a second hard drive (or at least
> room
>> for the two systems on your primary drive)- but not a big deal with
> today's
>> prices.

> I've probably made too much of a deal about this.  It mostly
> boils down to text editting a description file and running a
> couple programs, instead of a cute graphical interface.
> For someone who has never used a Mac, its like me who
> has pretty much never used windows.

Honestly, Roy, I think that for people without UNIX experience, the terminal is a pretty 
scary place to be. 

I cut my teeth on UNIX and CMS systems back in college, so it isn't too intimidating to 
me, but I still got myself into a little trouble in setting up the QTR beta. (More 
through sloppiness and issues easily answered with "rtfm" but still.) 

Mind you, it was _so_ worth it :)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Bill Morse <willym@b...> 
wrote:
> Well, actually, it should print from any program that will open the image,
> so if you save out a flattened tif, it should open in the free OSX image
> viewer.  As for the hard drive, they're about a dollar a gig, no?
> 
> Bill

Here's what I would do if I wanted to use an old iMac as a print-server for QTR:

Set up filesharing between the Mac and PC (easily done in Jaguar)

Leave the files on the PC, on a shared partition. 

Open the files in, say, Graphic Converter. Photoshop Elements, Portraits-n-Prints, 
ImageBuddy, or some other "practically freeware" application, make _no_ edits, and 
print them directly, leaving them on the PC's shared drive the whole time.

Martin writes:

> Uh-oh! Another platform war!

Please...please...lets not go there! Anyone familiar with Unix will
understand exactly what the Terminal Program is and what shell scripts are
all about.

To keep this on topic, I use Roy's QuadToneRIP with my Epson 1160. Since
Epson currently doesn't have a 10.2 driver available for the 1160 it's
really the only way to print quads under OS X; unless, of course, you go
with a third-party solution like the R9 plugin. Roy's setup does a very nice
job, though print speed is very slow; a function of the Gimp driver and
nothing to do with QuadToneRIP. Plus, you can print directly from your
grayscale image. No converting to RGB, applying curves, etc.

Alan Huntley

> To keep this on topic, I use Roy's QuadToneRIP with my Epson 1160. Since
> Epson currently doesn't have a 10.2 driver available for the 1160 it's
> really the only way to print quads under OS X; > 
> Alan Huntley

Epson does have a OS X driver for the 1160...check Epson's web site.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "A. Huntley" <leicam6@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP and partitioning curves


(snip)
>
> To keep this on topic, I use Roy's QuadToneRIP with my Epson 1160. Since
> Epson currently doesn't have a 10.2 driver available for the 1160 it's
> really the only way to print quads under OS X; unless, of course, you go
> with a third-party solution like the R9 plugin. Roy's setup does a very
nice
> job, though print speed is very slow; a function of the Gimp driver and
> nothing to do with QuadToneRIP. Plus, you can print directly from your
> grayscale image. No converting to RGB, applying curves, etc.
>
Alan,

Could you give us a step-by-step description of the workflow once you have
finished editing your file? That might help us get a better idea of what's
involved?

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "A. Huntley" <leicam6@a...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP and partitioning curves
> 
> 
> (snip)
> >
> > To keep this on topic, I use Roy's QuadToneRIP with my Epson 1160. Since
> > Epson currently doesn't have a 10.2 driver available for the 1160 it's
> > really the only way to print quads under OS X; unless, of course, you go
> > with a third-party solution like the R9 plugin. Roy's setup does a very
> nice
> > job, though print speed is very slow; a function of the Gimp driver and
> > nothing to do with QuadToneRIP. Plus, you can print directly from your
> > grayscale image. No converting to RGB, applying curves, etc.
> >
> Alan,
> 
> Could you give us a step-by-step description of the workflow once you have
> finished editing your file? That might help us get a better idea of what's
> involved?
> 
> Martin

Martin,

The workflow is without a doubt the easiest possible.

You edit everything in grayscale.

To print, you just use the ordinary Print command or Print with Preview.
You use all the regular printing dialogues -- positioning the image on
the page and all.  You select the printer, (network printers are completely
seamless too).  There are several Printer Feature dialogue pages where you
select resolution, etc.  One of the pages is a QuadToneRIP page where you
select, first, that you want QuadTones, then select a curve or two if you
want blending.  Then print.  Naturally all these options that you've
selected can be saved as a named set for later use.  All the data is spooled 
and you're off working on the next image while that one prints.

All this stuff works from any program that can have grayscale images and
can print.

Roy

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Roy Harrington" <roy@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP and partitioning curves



(snip)
> > Alan,
> >
> > Could you give us a step-by-step description of the workflow once you
have
> > finished editing your file? That might help us get a better idea of
what's
> > involved?
> >
> > Martin
>
> Martin,
>
> The workflow is without a doubt the easiest possible.
>
> You edit everything in grayscale.
>
> To print, you just use the ordinary Print command or Print with Preview.
> You use all the regular printing dialogues -- positioning the image on
> the page and all.  You select the printer, (network printers are
completely
> seamless too).  There are several Printer Feature dialogue pages where you
> select resolution, etc.  One of the pages is a QuadToneRIP page where you
> select, first, that you want QuadTones, then select a curve or two if you
> want blending.  Then print.  Naturally all these options that you've
> selected can be saved as a named set for later use.  All the data is
spooled
> and you're off working on the next image while that one prints.
>
> All this stuff works from any program that can have grayscale images and
> can print.
>
Roy,

Sounds straight forward. Standard print dialog. I guess anyone who ever
bought an Epson printer must have some low level Photoshop software in Mac
version.

If you edit in Windows and then print from a Mac, I guess you can you save
the file in any format in Windows that your Mac software can open.

How many curves have you and other worked out at this point and for which
printers/ink combinations?

Martin

Hi John,

I've checked Epson's site weekly for quite some time now. I've only seen a
driver posted for 10.1. Are you telling me that this driver will work
correctly under 10.2.6? They seem to be pretty adamant (bold print) that
their current 1160 driver is prior 10.2 only.

Thanks,
Alan Huntley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] QuadToneRIP and partitioning curves


> > To keep this on topic, I use Roy's QuadToneRIP with my Epson 1160. Since
> > Epson currently doesn't have a 10.2 driver available for the 1160 it's
> > really the only way to print quads under OS X; >
> > Alan Huntley
>
> Epson does have a OS X driver for the 1160...check Epson's web site.
>
>
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Hi Martin and others interested in Roy's QuadToneRIP,

> > To keep this on topic, I use Roy's QuadToneRIP with my Epson 1160. Since
> > Epson currently doesn't have a 10.2 driver available for the 1160 it's
> > really the only way to print quads under OS X; unless, of course, you go
> > with a third-party solution like the R9 plugin. Roy's setup does a very
> nice
> > job, though print speed is very slow; a function of the Gimp driver and
> > nothing to do with QuadToneRIP. Plus, you can print directly from your
> > grayscale image. No converting to RGB, applying curves, etc.
> >
> Alan,
>
> Could you give us a step-by-step description of the workflow once you have
> finished editing your file? That might help us get a better idea of what's
> involved?
>
> Martin

Once you get everything set up and working--follow instructions for
installing the Gimp driver very carefully--printing from PS is simplicity
itself. Select Page Setup to set up paper size and printing orientation,
then, Command/P to Print. Roy has provided curves for Paul's VM Sepia
inkset, but they work fine with the standard VM inkset once you realize that
curve #3 prints with the most toner; that is, cooler more neutral print.

At first it's a little confusing because the neutral curve actually produces
the warmest print with the standard VM inkset. There are some specific
driver settings to be aware of which Roy documents very well in the
instructions that come with QuadToneRIP. I simply saved the printing
parameters for the paper used and, then, subsequent printing is a one-click
deal. Select your saved parameters from the dropdown box and away ya go!

One thing that any potential user of QuadToneRIP might want to consider is
that, at least for my setup, the spacing of overall print color is much
finer with Roy's curves than with Paul's curves for VM. To my eye, Paul's
curves go from a very cold blue print to a fairly warm (carbon ink browns)
print. Roy's curves go from what I'd call a dead neutral print to a warm
print. Again, to my eye and on my setup Roy's warmest curve appears to
nearly match Paul's warmest curve. Makes sense since very little, if any, of
the toner ink is being at this point. For the more technically oriented
folks, Roy provides a nice write-up for building your own curves. Though I
would like a somewhat cooler one for snowscenes, etc., I haven't delved into
making my own because I prefer spending what little free time I have out
photographing.

Hope this helps,
Alan Huntley

Roy,


at what point (and how) in this process do you make a profile? 

Antonis



......

 One of the pages is a QuadToneRIP page where you

> select, first, that you want QuadTones, then select a curve or two if you
> want blending.  Then print.  Naturally all these options that you've
> selected can be saved as a named set for later use.  All the data is spooled 
> and you're off working on the next image while that one prints.
> 
> All this stuff works from any program that can have grayscale images and
> can print.
> 
> Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis 
Ricos" <antonisphoto@y...> wrote:

Antonis,

There are some similarities to IJC.  
There's a calibration page that shows each individual ink in 
a 21-step wedge laid out in percentages.  
1) You decide on ink limit percentages.
2) You print another page with your percents;
3) You just decide the order of inks -- dark to light and
   measure the density of in terms of the next darker one.
   This is just a density comparison -- absolute values are
    not used.   You end up with percentages like:
   Black = 100%,  Cyan=40%, Magenta=20%, Yellow=8%

This is all that goes into the partitioning algorithm.

After this you need to compensate for the dotgain.  This is
pretty much like what IJC calls linearization, but you only
have to do it for the already partitioned inks not the individual
inks.  I have some aids for this where you specify how much
"lightening" you need in the highlights and in the shadows
and a smooth curve from light to dark is generated.   It's
also possible to use Photoshop to make very steep dotgain
correction curve, but for the most part that's not needed.

Roy


> Roy,
> 
> 
> at what point (and how) in this process do you make a profile? 
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> 
> ......
> 
>  One of the pages is a QuadToneRIP page where you
> > select, first, that you want QuadTones, then select a curve or 
two if you
> > want blending.  Then print.  Naturally all these options that 
you've
> > selected can be saved as a named set for later use.  All the 
data is spooled 
> > and you're off working on the next image while that one 
prints.
> > 
> > All this stuff works from any program that can have grayscale 
images and

> > can print.
> > 
> > Roy

Roy,


at what point (and how) in this process do you make a profile? 

Antonis



......

 One of the pages is a QuadToneRIP page where you

> select, first, that you want QuadTones, then select a curve or two if you
> want blending.  Then print.  Naturally all these options that you've
> selected can be saved as a named set for later use.  All the data is spooled 
> and you're off working on the next image while that one prints.
> 
> All this stuff works from any program that can have grayscale images and
> can print.
> 
> Roy

Roy,

thanks for all the details. A couple more q's: 

- Is it possible to do UnderColor Removal at the highest densities? (i.e. if you 
wanted only the black ink there and not (as much) of the others?). Since you 
don't control individual ink curves, it would seem not possible.

- Since the partitioning assumes all grays and a black, how can one play with 
toners (or is it possible at all?).

Sorry to be asking you all these questions, but I haven't had the time to play 
too much with OS X and/or install the QT RIP, so I am trying to get an 
overview.

In terms of dithering choices, did you just pick one of the gimp dithers, or is 
there a drop down somewhere for the end-user to play?

Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis 
> Ricos" <antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> 
> Antonis,
> 
> There are some similarities to IJC.  
> There's a calibration page that shows each individual ink in 
> a 21-step wedge laid out in percentages.  
> 1) You decide on ink limit percentages.
> 2) You print another page with your percents;
> 3) You just decide the order of inks -- dark to light and
>    measure the density of in terms of the next darker one.
>    This is just a density comparison -- absolute values are
>     not used.   You end up with percentages like:
>    Black = 100%,  Cyan=40%, Magenta=20%, Yellow=8%
> 
> This is all that goes into the partitioning algorithm.
> 
> After this you need to compensate for the dotgain.  This is
> pretty much like what IJC calls linearization, but you only
> have to do it for the already partitioned inks not the individual
> inks.  I have some aids for this where you specify how much
> "lightening" you need in the highlights and in the shadows
> and a smooth curve from light to dark is generated.   It's
> also possible to use Photoshop to make very steep dotgain
> correction curve, but for the most part that's not needed.
> 
> Roy
> 
> 
> > Roy,
> > 
> > 
> > at what point (and how) in this process do you make a profile? 
> > 
> > Antonis
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ......
> > 
> >  One of the pages is a QuadToneRIP page where you
> > > select, first, that you want QuadTones, then select a curve or 
> two if you
> > > want blending.  Then print.  Naturally all these options that 
> you've
> > > selected can be saved as a named set for later use.  All the 
> data is spooled 
> > > and you're off working on the next image while that one 
> prints.
> > > 
> > > All this stuff works from any program that can have grayscale 
> images and
> > > can print.
> > > 
> > > Roy

Antonis, I hope Roy answers, but maybe I can clarify a touch. This 
relates to the last build I have, I believe there is a new build in the 
works.
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis Ricos" <
antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Roy,
> 
> thanks for all the details. A couple more q's: 
> 
> - Is it possible to do UnderColor Removal at the highest densities? (i.e. if you 
> wanted only the black ink there and not (as much) of the others?). Since you 
> don't control individual ink curves, it would seem not possible.

Actually you do have control of the individual inks, all you want, 
obviously including undercolor. You design your curves in Photoshop, 
output them properly, and then you select which one you want in the 
driver when printing.
 
> - Since the partitioning assumes all grays and a black, how can one play with 
> toners (or is it possible at all?).

The version I tried does not assume that, Roy included some MIS 
variable tone curves with the download. Pretty much anything is 
possible. The only limitation (correct me Roy) is that more complex 
multiple channel curves may be a problem because PS raw maxes at 4 with 
CMYK.
 
> Sorry to be asking you all these questions, but I haven't had the time to play 
> too much with OS X and/or install the QT RIP, so I am trying to get an 
> overview.
> 
> In terms of dithering choices, did you just pick one of the gimp dithers, or is 
> there a drop down somewhere for the end-user to play?

All of the normal Gimp options including dither are available, the 
basic Gimp driver is still intact.
Tyler

Thanks for jumping in Tyler.I guess that's what you are using with the 3000?



Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis Ricos" <
antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for jumping in Tyler.I guess that's what you are using with the 3000?

Actually no. I'm still using PressReady, I just can't beat it with 
anything affordable, but I have to print out of classic. It also has 
excellent dithering. But my workflow is so convoluted, and (briefly) hi 
bit CMYK to boot, I don't recommend it to anyone. Of course it's also a 
dead product.
I'm waiting for an upcoming GimpPrint release that puts out more ink. 
With the current release the Epson driver's, and the Piezo plugin's, 
dmax can be reached, but not PressReady's. IJC/OPM may have figured out 
some way around that limitation.
I should clarify the previous post. Roy's version I briefly tried seems 
to use PS raw files like LUTs. Creating those raw files is a separate 
step, and he has provided some with the install.
What I can't address, are the tools Roy developed to help produce 
curves (which you turn into the raw files), they are separate from the 
driver. They seem quite clever (the whole thing does) but I haven't had 
the chance to try them. He's done more work since my brief playing.
Both IJC/OPM and Roy's RIP are very promising, if IJC/OPM supported the 
3000 or if GimpPrint put out more ink, I'd be putting more energy into 
both of them. Or maybe I'll win the lottery and get something newer 
than the 3000.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler 
Boley" <tyler@t...> wrote:
> Antonis, I hope Roy answers, but maybe I can clarify a touch. 
This 
> relates to the last build I have, I believe there is a new build in 
the 
> works.

The last version used PS curve design only.  The new one
can still do that, but I expect most will use the auto curve
generation.

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"Antonis Ricos" <
> antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> > Roy,
> > 
> > thanks for all the details. A couple more q's: 
> > 
> > - Is it possible to do UnderColor Removal at the highest 
densities? (i.e. if you 
> > wanted only the black ink there and not (as much) of the 
others?). Since you 
> > don't control individual ink curves, it would seem not 
possible.
> 
> Actually you do have control of the individual inks, all you want, 
> obviously including undercolor. You design your curves in 
Photoshop, 
> output them properly, and then you select which one you want 
in the 
> driver when printing.

It's possible to create all the curves totally by hand with PS
and do absolutely anything you want.  But the part I've been
describing is for the automatic partitioning -- here there's
less control because you don't get to / have to deal with the
underlying curves.

However, the UCR is something I've dealt with somewhat.
By default I was planning on the darkest patch being 100%
black without any other ink.  That seems the best on my 7500.
I have the possibility of including some percentage of the
next darker ink but I'm not sure if that's desirable or not.

>  
> > - Since the partitioning assumes all grays and a black, how 
can one play with 
> > toners (or is it possible at all?).
> 
> The version I tried does not assume that, Roy included some 
MIS 
> variable tone curves with the download. Pretty much anything is 
> possible. The only limitation (correct me Roy) is that more 
complex 
> multiple channel curves may be a problem because PS raw 
maxes at 4 with 
> CMYK.

The one or two toner inks can also be partitioned and the
composite controlled by a curve.  I have a feeling people
will want to customize this overall curve.

If you are in the "do everything yourself" situation, since PS
allows only CMYK in one file, you can just do two files one
for the dark inks and one for the light inks.  You merge all
the curves later on.

>  
> > Sorry to be asking you all these questions, but I haven't had 
the time to play 
> > too much with OS X and/or install the QT RIP, so I am trying 
to get an 
> > overview.
> > 
> > In terms of dithering choices, did you just pick one of the 
gimp dithers, or is 
> > there a drop down somewhere for the end-user to play?
> 
> All of the normal Gimp options including dither are available, 
the 
> basic Gimp driver is still intact.

Yes, all the builtin questions are still there. 

> Tyler

Thanks, Tyler.

Roy

I'm going to shut up about this thing because I'm falling behind with 
it and don't want to missinform.
However I'm very impressed with my small exposure to Roy's work and I 
think people should be paying attention to it. Roy's page should be 
put in the software links section of this list, it's getting 
interesting fast, is one of the only OSX options open to us, and 
untill Roy get's smart, it's free.

Several people have asked about trying out the
new version.   My website now contains some
links for it.   See QuadToneRIP on:

http://harrington.com

Roy

Roy's page should be 
> put in the software links section of this list,

It already is....


Thanks for this whole discussion Tyler.


Antonis

This is great! I look forward to trying it out...

Some initial questions:

- Is Gimp-Print 4.2.5 still the correct version to use? You mentioned in
an email that the new version would run on 4.3.14 (or maybe 4.3.16 which
is out now?). It seemed to install fine with 4.2.5 though...

- In the programs directory there is some information on compiling a
4.3.5 version of Gimp-print. Is this a neccessary step to get this
version to work?

- The install-script failed in Red-Hat 8.0 which I'm using. It said
"install: cannot stat `escp2-1160-quad.ppd.gz`: No such file or
directory" for each file in the PPDs directory.

When I copied the files manually to the same directory specified in the
script it worked fine and I could find the driver in CUPS.

- After the installation I got a little confused. I read through the
available documentation, but I couldn't entirely figure out exactly
which steps to take and in which order to create a new curve/profile.
I'll read through everything again, maybe I can fiure it out... There
didn't seem to be any curves installed in the driver by default.


--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel 
Staver" <daniel@p...> wrote:

Hi Daniel,

The Linux version is definitely more work and dirty hands
than the Mac which is pretty much plug and play.

> This is great! I look forward to trying it out...
> 
> Some initial questions:
> 
> - Is Gimp-Print 4.2.5 still the correct version to use? You 
mentioned in
> an email that the new version would run on 4.3.14 (or maybe 
4.3.16 which
> is out now?). It seemed to install fine with 4.2.5 though...
> 
> - In the programs directory there is some information on 
compiling a
> 4.3.5 version of Gimp-print. Is this a neccessary step to get this
> version to work?

Yes, you have to download the 4.3.5 source, make changes
that are in the programs directory, compile and install it.  I've
included what I did on the Mac to get 4.3.5 running, so that
should help but I don't have Linux so I'm not sure.

> 
> - The install-script failed in Red-Hat 8.0 which I'm using. It said
> "install: cannot stat `escp2-1160-quad.ppd.gz`: No such file or
> directory" for each file in the PPDs directory.
> 
> When I copied the files manually to the same directory 
specified in the
> script it worked fine and I could find the driver in CUPS.

Looks like you solved that one.

> 
> - After the installation I got a little confused. I read through the
> available documentation, but I couldn't entirely figure out exactly
> which steps to take and in which order to create a new 
curve/profile.
> I'll read through everything again, maybe I can fiure it out... 
There
> didn't seem to be any curves installed in the driver by default.

That's correct.  Curves for my setup are unlikely to be of use
to others since I mixed my own ink set.

> 
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no

Roy

I am trying to set up QuadToneRip 2.0, and have several questions.

1.  Which version of Gimp-Print do I need to use, and if I need to use
4.3.5, how do I install that? (I now have 4.2.5 installed, which worked w/
QuadToneRip v1.1)

In creating the curves, I have printed out the initial ink load page, and
verified that approx. 50% ink load is right for my 7000.

Now I'm not sure what to do- when I apply the ink-limits, and then re-print
the Ink Pattern Page, I get strange density bars that start light, get dark,
then lighter again- not at all what Roy shows on his calibration instruction
page.  Can anyone flesh out Roys instructions on what to do after the
initial ink load limits have been established?

TIA


Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, MA USA

Hi all,

I've just uploaded another version onto my website.  There's
fair amount more documentation and examples of all the
major inksets (FS, Piezo, VM, and UC) and several printers
1160, 3000, 1280, 7500, 2200 -- 4,6 and 7 inks.  

I'm still labeling it as a beta version, but its very stable now.
The main changes have all been documentation and help.

Roy Harrington
www.harrington.com

Hello Roy, 
Today I upgraded to QuadToneRIP 2.0 but ran into a problem when
installing curves.

After running Run-Quad-Profile the example curve (1160-fs) is
installed and visible in the curve dropbox (inside the folder
Quad_1160). But after running Run-Install-Curves and entering the
password I get this message:

quadcurves: quadcurves: No such file or directory
logout
[Process completed]

When doing a search for quadcurves I find a file (put there by the
installer) in usr/local/bin

The curve doesn't show up in the print dialog.
What should I do?
Thanks,


Kees Brandenburg

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kees Brandenburg" 
<ctb@z...> wrote:
> Hello Roy, 
> Today I upgraded to QuadToneRIP 2.0 but ran into a problem when
> installing curves.
> 
> After running Run-Quad-Profile the example curve (1160-fs) is
> installed and visible in the curve dropbox (inside the folder
> Quad_1160). But after running Run-Install-Curves and entering the
> password I get this message:
> 
> quadcurves: quadcurves: No such file or directory
> logout
> [Process completed]
> 
> When doing a search for quadcurves I find a file (put there by the
> installer) in usr/local/bin
> 
> The curve doesn't show up in the print dialog.
> What should I do?
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Kees Brandenburg

Thanks, Kees.  Apparently /usr/local/bin isn't in the default search path.

Here's the simple fix,  the file Run-Install-Curves can be edited with TextEdit.
Adding the line that begins with PATH will make it find quadcurves.  Note
that you can't write the change to the read-only disk image or the download.
Write it to your own copy.

------NEW VERSION of Run-Install-Curves ------
#!/bin/sh
PATH=.:/usr/local/bin:$PATH
cd `dirname $0`
echo " "
sudo sh quadcurves
------ END

Roy

Roy-

It just keeps getting better and better.

I like the graph that you can make of the curves.  I also like the 
changes you made to the curve descriptors (black boost and grey curve). 
  IMO you have a great set of tools to create the curves

I think  I saw my trusted piezo plug-in checking out retirement homes 
this morning.

--
Kevin

>
> Hi all,
>
> I've just uploaded another version onto my website.  There's
> fair amount more documentation and examples of all the
> major inksets (FS, Piezo, VM, and UC) and several printers
> 1160, 3000, 1280, 7500, 2200 -- 4,6 and 7 inks.
>
> I'm still labeling it as a beta version, but its very stable now.
> The main changes have all been documentation and help.
>
> Roy Harrington
> www.harrington.com

Thanks Roy,
That's simple! I should have thought about that myself. I will edit it
tomorrow when back in my studio.

I'm really very happy with QuadtoneRIP. I also used it for printing
negatives (on inkjet transparancies) when teaching a full colour
gumprinting workshop last month and the results were very good
(smoother tonality,less artefacts). Fine tuning possibilities in 2.0
are great for this too!

Only downside is the slow printing speed of Gimp-Print.

Kees Brandenburg
  


> Thanks, Kees.  Apparently /usr/local/bin isn't in the default search
path.
> 
> Here's the simple fix,  the file Run-Install-Curves can be edited
with TextEdit.
> Adding the line that begins with PATH will make it find quadcurves.
 Note
> that you can't write the change to the read-only disk image or the
download.

> Write it to your own copy.
> 
> ------NEW VERSION of Run-Install-Curves ------
> #!/bin/sh
> PATH=.:/usr/local/bin:$PATH
> cd `dirname $0`
> echo " "
> sudo sh quadcurves
> ------ END
> 
> Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kees 
Brandenburg" <ctb@z...> wrote:
> Thanks Roy,
> That's simple! I should have thought about that myself. I will 
edit it
> tomorrow when back in my studio.
> 
> I'm really very happy with QuadtoneRIP. I also used it for 
printing
> negatives (on inkjet transparancies) when teaching a full 
colour
> gumprinting workshop last month and the results were very 
good
> (smoother tonality,less artefacts). Fine tuning possibilities in 
2.0
> are great for this too!
> 
> Only downside is the slow printing speed of Gimp-Print.

This seems to be a common complaint.  I'm mostly using
a 7500 and it seems very reasonable but I don't have a
real comparison.  Gimp-print lots of printing options
primarily under Resolution.  If you've just used Highest
Quality, I'd try out the next notch down.  It'll probably be a lot
faster and may not have a quality penalty.

Roy

Hello,

I am having a problem with installing curves. I viewed the "Run-Install-Curves" file in 
TextEdit, and it is the same as what your new version shows.  Unfortunately when I 
run it, I get the "Warning: no quadtone curve folder found" error.  The "quadcurves" 
file does appear in the user/local/bin folder too.

Thank you!


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kees Brandenburg" 
> <ctb@z...> wrote:
> > Hello Roy, 
> > Today I upgraded to QuadToneRIP 2.0 but ran into a problem when
> > installing curves.
> > 
> > After running Run-Quad-Profile the example curve (1160-fs) is
> > installed and visible in the curve dropbox (inside the folder
> > Quad_1160). But after running Run-Install-Curves and entering the
> > password I get this message:
> > 
> > quadcurves: quadcurves: No such file or directory
> > logout
> > [Process completed]
> > 
> > When doing a search for quadcurves I find a file (put there by the
> > installer) in usr/local/bin
> > 
> > The curve doesn't show up in the print dialog.
> > What should I do?
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > 
> > Kees Brandenburg
> 
> Thanks, Kees.  Apparently /usr/local/bin isn't in the default search path.
> 
> Here's the simple fix,  the file Run-Install-Curves can be edited with TextEdit.
> Adding the line that begins with PATH will make it find quadcurves.  Note
> that you can't write the change to the read-only disk image or the download.
> Write it to your own copy.
> 
> ------NEW VERSION of Run-Install-Curves ------
> #!/bin/sh
> PATH=.:/usr/local/bin:$PATH
> cd `dirname $0`
> echo " "
> sudo sh quadcurves
> ------ END
> 
> Roy

It looks to me as though you haven't created any curves yet so the
Install-Curves script is just saying there aren't any.

You can find some examples of ink descriptions in ExampleInks.  The idea
is to start with one that uses a similar printer and with a similar ink set.
Then tuning the values based on a few calibration runs.

The GettingStarted file has a fair amount of description of this.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "thericker88" 
<thericker@s...> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am having a problem with installing curves. I viewed the "Run-Install-Curves" file 
in 
> TextEdit, and it is the same as what your new version shows.  Unfortunately when I 
> run it, I get the "Warning: no quadtone curve folder found" error.  The "quadcurves" 
> file does appear in the user/local/bin folder too.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> 

> wrote:
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kees Brandenburg" 
> > <ctb@z...> wrote:
> > > Hello Roy, 
> > > Today I upgraded to QuadToneRIP 2.0 but ran into a problem when
> > > installing curves.
> > > 
> > > After running Run-Quad-Profile the example curve (1160-fs) is
> > > installed and visible in the curve dropbox (inside the folder
> > > Quad_1160). But after running Run-Install-Curves and entering the
> > > password I get this message:
> > > 
> > > quadcurves: quadcurves: No such file or directory
> > > logout
> > > [Process completed]
> > > 
> > > When doing a search for quadcurves I find a file (put there by the
> > > installer) in usr/local/bin
> > > 
> > > The curve doesn't show up in the print dialog.
> > > What should I do?
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Kees Brandenburg
> > 
> > Thanks, Kees.  Apparently /usr/local/bin isn't in the default search path.
> > 
> > Here's the simple fix,  the file Run-Install-Curves can be edited with TextEdit.
> > Adding the line that begins with PATH will make it find quadcurves.  Note
> > that you can't write the change to the read-only disk image or the download.
> > Write it to your own copy.
> > 
> > ------NEW VERSION of Run-Install-Curves ------
> > #!/bin/sh
> > PATH=.:/usr/local/bin:$PATH
> > cd `dirname $0`
> > echo " "
> > sudo sh quadcurves
> > ------ END
> > 
> > Roy

Roy,

You are correct.  I didn't create any curves, but I was trying to add the curves you 
created.  They weren't adding because I forgot to change the Printer name in the 
curve descripter files.  Woops!  Once I changed those, it worked fine.

2 things I noticed:
(1) I tried adding the new 2200 curves that were available on your site, but simply 
changing the printer names did not work for me.  I had to take the old 2200 curves 
and redo them to match the content of the new files. The redone old curves added 
fine.

(2) The other thing is in the print dialog, under printer features, in basic settings.  
The media type and resolution settings are missing?  I went into the printcenter and 
made  the QTR printer my default, but those two settings is still missing.  I have a 
2200 by the way.

This always happens to me.  I'm always forgetting one or two steps!  

Thank you!



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:
> 
> It looks to me as though you haven't created any curves yet so the
> Install-Curves script is just saying there aren't any.
> 
> You can find some examples of ink descriptions in ExampleInks.  The idea
> is to start with one that uses a similar printer and with a similar ink set.
> Then tuning the values based on a few calibration runs.
> 
> The GettingStarted file has a fair amount of description of this.
> 
> Roy
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "thericker88" 
> <thericker@s...> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I am having a problem with installing curves. I viewed the "Run-Install-Curves" 
file 
> in 
> > TextEdit, and it is the same as what your new version shows.  Unfortunately when 
I 
> > run it, I get the "Warning: no quadtone curve folder found" error.  The 
"quadcurves" 

> > file does appear in the user/local/bin folder too.
> > 
> > Thank you!
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
> <roy@h...> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kees Brandenburg" 
> > > <ctb@z...> wrote:
> > > > Hello Roy, 
> > > > Today I upgraded to QuadToneRIP 2.0 but ran into a problem when
> > > > installing curves.
> > > > 
> > > > After running Run-Quad-Profile the example curve (1160-fs) is
> > > > installed and visible in the curve dropbox (inside the folder
> > > > Quad_1160). But after running Run-Install-Curves and entering the
> > > > password I get this message:
> > > > 
> > > > quadcurves: quadcurves: No such file or directory
> > > > logout
> > > > [Process completed]
> > > > 
> > > > When doing a search for quadcurves I find a file (put there by the
> > > > installer) in usr/local/bin
> > > > 
> > > > The curve doesn't show up in the print dialog.
> > > > What should I do?
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Kees Brandenburg
> > > 
> > > Thanks, Kees.  Apparently /usr/local/bin isn't in the default search path.
> > > 
> > > Here's the simple fix,  the file Run-Install-Curves can be edited with TextEdit.
> > > Adding the line that begins with PATH will make it find quadcurves.  Note
> > > that you can't write the change to the read-only disk image or the download.
> > > Write it to your own copy.
> > > 
> > > ------NEW VERSION of Run-Install-Curves ------
> > > #!/bin/sh
> > > PATH=.:/usr/local/bin:$PATH
> > > cd `dirname $0`
> > > echo " "
> > > sudo sh quadcurves
> > > ------ END
> > > 
> > > Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "thericker88" 
<thericker@s...> wrote:
> Roy,
> 
> You are correct.  I didn't create any curves, but I was trying to add the curves you 
> created.  They weren't adding because I forgot to change the Printer name in the 
> curve descripter files.  Woops!  Once I changed those, it worked fine.
> 
> 2 things I noticed:
> (1) I tried adding the new 2200 curves that were available on your site, but simply 
> changing the printer names did not work for me.  I had to take the old 2200 curves 
> and redo them to match the content of the new files. The redone old curves added 
> fine.

The files are just text files so there must be something different.  The most common
source of problems is spaces and special characters.  In the ink desc file, there
can't be any spaces before or after the "=" sign.  If you are still puzzled about it
email me the two files and I'll look at them.

> 
> (2) The other thing is in the print dialog, under printer features, in basic settings.  
> The media type and resolution settings are missing?  I went into the printcenter and 
> made  the QTR printer my default, but those two settings is still missing.  I have a 
> 2200 by the way.

This is a strange issue.  There is an intermittent bug in PrintCenter and I'm not
sure exactly when or where this "missing settings" comes up -- I think it bases
the categories on the printer it first sees so that's why I suggest making it the
default printer.  If it still refuses to show the settings, there is a browser based
interface to the printer system.  Use  http://localhost:631  as the URL in your
browser, go to Manage Printers, then Configure Printer and then select the
default settings.

Roy

> 
> This always happens to me.  I'm always forgetting one or two steps!  
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
<roy@h...> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > It looks to me as though you haven't created any curves yet so the
> > Install-Curves script is just saying there aren't any.
> > 
> > You can find some examples of ink descriptions in ExampleInks.  The idea
> > is to start with one that uses a similar printer and with a similar ink set.
> > Then tuning the values based on a few calibration runs.
> > 
> > The GettingStarted file has a fair amount of description of this.
> > 
> > Roy
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "thericker88" 
> > <thericker@s...> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I am having a problem with installing curves. I viewed the "Run-Install-Curves" 
> file 
> > in 
> > > TextEdit, and it is the same as what your new version shows.  Unfortunately 
when 
> I 
> > > run it, I get the "Warning: no quadtone curve folder found" error.  The 
> "quadcurves" 
> > > file does appear in the user/local/bin folder too.
> > > 
> > > Thank you!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" 
> > <roy@h...> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Kees Brandenburg" 
> > > > <ctb@z...> wrote:
> > > > > Hello Roy, 
> > > > > Today I upgraded to QuadToneRIP 2.0 but ran into a problem when
> > > > > installing curves.
> > > > > 
> > > > > After running Run-Quad-Profile the example curve (1160-fs) is
> > > > > installed and visible in the curve dropbox (inside the folder
> > > > > Quad_1160). But after running Run-Install-Curves and entering the
> > > > > password I get this message:
> > > > > 
> > > > > quadcurves: quadcurves: No such file or directory
> > > > > logout
> > > > > [Process completed]
> > > > > 
> > > > > When doing a search for quadcurves I find a file (put there by the
> > > > > installer) in usr/local/bin
> > > > > 
> > > > > The curve doesn't show up in the print dialog.
> > > > > What should I do?
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Kees Brandenburg
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks, Kees.  Apparently /usr/local/bin isn't in the default search path.
> > > > 
> > > > Here's the simple fix,  the file Run-Install-Curves can be edited with 
TextEdit.

> > > > Adding the line that begins with PATH will make it find quadcurves.  Note
> > > > that you can't write the change to the read-only disk image or the download.
> > > > Write it to your own copy.
> > > > 
> > > > ------NEW VERSION of Run-Install-Curves ------
> > > > #!/bin/sh
> > > > PATH=.:/usr/local/bin:$PATH
> > > > cd `dirname $0`
> > > > echo " "
> > > > sudo sh quadcurves
> > > > ------ END
> > > > 
> > > > Roy