Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by tigertwous

I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my Epson 7600 inked
 with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a Windows XP Pro system 
and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson Enhanced Matte to learn 
on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any suggestions as to 
what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just play around and find my 
way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I thought if I ask you 
folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some successful results.
 
 Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in the future.
 
 Jack Fisher
 St. Louis, MO

Re: I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by stephane_bosman

IMHO, you have just wasted money. I have spent a year using Cone Piezo inks and have 
just replaced them with MIS UT2. Guess what, the same file printed on the same paper 
with both inksets are absolutely impossible to tell apart if printed with the same warm 
tonality. And UT2 allows me neutral and cool prints, which Piezo does not.

Add to this the suite of unkept promises from Cone, the overpriced useless software and 
I'm done with them.

Good luck anyway in your new endeavour :-)


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" <jfisher@s...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my Epson 7600 inked
>  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a Windows XP Pro system 
> and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson Enhanced Matte to learn 
> on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any suggestions as to 
> what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just play around and find my 
> way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I thought if I ask you 
> folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some successful results.
>  
>  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in the future.
>  
>  Jack Fisher
>  St. Louis, MO

Re: I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by alanwdd

Stephane:

I was once a Piezo user - I still look at some of the old prints that 
I made with the PS PlugIn - they were good.

When they moved to the ICC format I rode along - I could never get a 
good print.

I continue to be confused by the Piezo failure and lack of ownership 
in the failure. Sometimes I wonder if this is a problem caused by an 
artistic approach to technology. Deadlines are presented, missed and 
never acknowledged. The idea that each print setup needs to be 
taylored with a custom ICC set (this being how they propose to fix 
customers like me who could not get their systems working) makes me 
wonder if they really know what they are doing. Epson and other 
printer vendors spend millions on making sure every printer is 
identical. So ... gets the inks indentical and get a good ICC - not 
so much magic.

I've switched to the UT2 inks and am happy with the results - 
However, I still look at the Piezo prints and want to move back when 
Piezo gets back on track.

Perhaps the biggest difference between Piezo and UT2 is the fact that 
people are treated as real customers on the UT2 side. Paul has 
answered each of my e-mails the same day.

We all know some big vendor will walk in soon and present a viable 
B&W solution that we can buy and use as easily as we do color these 
days. Untik then the market will stay with the little guy who 
provides service.

A ramble ... I feel poorly for the Piezo folks - a good product 
spoiled by a lack of understanding of technology and how to do 
business. My greatest respects for the UT2 folks - a good product 
supported by people who are willing to do anything to make it a 
sucess.

AW


--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "stephane_bosman" 
<stephane_bosman@y...> wrote:
> IMHO, you have just wasted money. I have spent a year using Cone 
Piezo inks and have 
> just replaced them with MIS UT2. Guess what, the same file printed 
on the same paper 
> with both inksets are absolutely impossible to tell apart if 
printed with the same warm 
> tonality. And UT2 allows me neutral and cool prints, which Piezo 
does not.
> 
> Add to this the suite of unkept promises from Cone, the overpriced 
useless software and 
> I'm done with them.
> 
> Good luck anyway in your new endeavour :-)
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
<jfisher@s...> wrote:
> > I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my 
Epson 7600 inked
> >  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a 
Windows XP Pro system 
> > and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson 
Enhanced Matte to learn 
> > on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any 
suggestions as to 
> > what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just 
play around and find my 
> > way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I 
thought if I ask you 
> > folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some 
successful results.
> >  
> >  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in 
the future.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >  
> >  Jack Fisher
> >  St. Louis, MO

Re: I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by mxgo95747

I am looking at buying an Epson 1280 and I would like to print some of my photos 
with the look of the original piezography inks.  In reading comments from the various 
users of those inks, it is said that the "warm neutral ink with museum black" will give 
me that look.  Question, will the UT2 inks give that same look?

thanks,

Martin

Re: [Digital BW] Re: I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by Cort Anderson

I just researched all the options and went with the piezography inks 
with a CIS on a 1280. I love the results, what I didn't do is get into 
the ICC stuff. I did a quick set up with QTR and am getting outstanding 
prints. I seriously looked at the MIS inks, they are more versatile and 
cheaper. I don't need the versatility and I like the way the piezo inks 
look enough that I spent the extra bucks.

The customer service at IJM is not the greatest, it takes awhile to get 
through to someone, but when I finally did they were helpful.

cort

--
Cort Anderson
Training Wheels, llc
www.trwheels.com
620-488-2960
620-488-3196 fax

[Digital BW] Re: I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by alanwdd

Cort:

What platform (PC/MAC) are you using?
Which Piezo inks are you using?

Note the the hope in my e-mail.

AW

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Cort Anderson 
<cort@t...> wrote:
> I just researched all the options and went with the piezography 
inks 
> with a CIS on a 1280. I love the results, what I didn't do is get 
into 
> the ICC stuff. I did a quick set up with QTR and am getting 
outstanding 
> prints. I seriously looked at the MIS inks, they are more versatile 
and 
> cheaper. I don't need the versatility and I like the way the piezo 
inks 
> look enough that I spent the extra bucks.
> 
> The customer service at IJM is not the greatest, it takes awhile to 
get 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> through to someone, but when I finally did they were helpful.
> 
> cort
> 
> --
> Cort Anderson
> Training Wheels, llc
> www.trwheels.com
> 620-488-2960
> 620-488-3196 fax

Re: I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by Tyler Boley

Believe me, you will get wonderful results from that combo. I can't
imagine going with the UC K ink instead of one of the Cone K inks though.
Make sure you shake those carts every week or so, and try to print a
little something weekly as well to keep the ink from settling in the
lines. A common problem with many inks these days easily avoided.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous"
<jfisher@s...> wrote:
> I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my Epson
7600 inked
>  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a Windows
XP Pro system 
> and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson
Enhanced Matte to learn 
> on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any
suggestions as to 
> what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just play
around and find my 
> way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I
thought if I ask you 
> folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some
successful results.
>  
>  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in the
future.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  
>  Jack Fisher
>  St. Louis, MO

Re: [Digital BW] Re: I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by Ross Borgida

I just started using the UT2 setup a few weeks ago.  The results are absolutely outstanding.  Instead of using canned profiles, you can use the curves (provided on www.inksupply.com website) to edjust the tonality of your images.  The MIS setup requires a little more effort in the initial setup but Paul Roark is there to help you along the way..just send him an email and he will get back to you.
 
Either setup is great...a friend of mine uses piezo inks and the results are wonderful as well!
 
Good luck
Ross

Cort Anderson <cort@...> wrote:
I just researched all the options and went with the piezography inks 
with a CIS on a 1280. I love the results, what I didn't do is get into 
the ICC stuff. I did a quick set up with QTR and am getting outstanding 
prints. I seriously looked at the MIS inks, they are more versatile and 
cheaper. I don't need the versatility and I like the way the piezo inks 
look enough that I spent the extra bucks.

The customer service at IJM is not the greatest, it takes awhile to get 
through to someone, but when I finally did they were helpful.

cort

--
Cort Anderson
Training Wheels, llc
www.trwheels.com
620-488-2960
620-488-3196 fax



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
  
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: I'm going with Cone Editions Inks

2004-07-14 by Cort Anderson

On Jul 14, 2004, at 11:14 AM, Ross Borgida wrote:

> Either setup is great...a friend of mine uses piezo inks and the 
> results are wonderful as well!

I agree, I went with piezo because I am a little more interested in 
production than experimentation. In my situation I really didn't want a 
bunch of options for tone when I print, too tempting to play too much.

On Jul 14, 2004, at 10:43 AM, alanwdd wrote:

> What platform (PC/MAC) are you using?
> Which Piezo inks are you using?

I am on a Mac using the warm neutral inks with museum black. I have a 
densitometer that I traded a client some work for and that made a big 
difference in setting up QTR. I did do two 21 step charts, one with QTR 
and one with the ICC before linearizing QTR. The test charts were close 
to each other until I did the linearization and then there was a very 
noticeable difference.

The CIS from IJM was less than expected and gave me some problems until 
I got through to them and now most of those are resolved.

cort

--
Cort Anderson
Training Wheels, llc
www.trwheels.com
620-488-2960
620-488-3196 fax

Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by digikdm

Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial and 
error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third party ink 
systems when all you really need is a good RIP using Epson inks. I 
know someone will counter that one of the colored Epson UC inks( 
yellow is the usual culprit mentioned) will 
fade over time producing metamerism, but there is little to no proof 
of the latter using the newer Epson UC inks. The prints I've seen 
using Imageprint as a RIP are as good as any I've seen( other than 
fiber-based halide)using any other ink systems. Why burden yourself 
with ink clogs and  ever-changing curves, etc. It's a technology bog. 
I've found the upfront costs of Imageprint( admittedly a RIP-off, pun 
intended) to be worth the cost in the long run.





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
<jfisher@s...> wrote:
> I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my Epson 
7600 inked
>  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a 
Windows XP Pro system 
> and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson 
Enhanced Matte to learn 
> on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any 
suggestions as to 
> what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just play 
around and find my 
> way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I 
thought if I ask you 
> folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some 
successful results.
>  
>  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in 
the future.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  
>  Jack Fisher
>  St. Louis, MO

Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by Tyler Boley

What's the problem with options? You see people on lists seeking help
with problems, there are others with few to none using 3rd party inks
that have no time for lists, and Epsons are hardly free of problems
either. Some people, including myself, also prefer the results they
get from other processes to the B&W solution from Imageprint, and also
may prefer the companies they deal with to Colorbyte.
It sounds like you have your solution and are happy with it, and are
convinced it's the only way, so I'm not sure what kind of answer you
are looking for.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
<monroekd@h...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial and 
> error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third party ink 
> systems when all you really need is a good RIP using Epson inks. I 
> know someone will counter that one of the colored Epson UC inks( 
> yellow is the usual culprit mentioned) will 
> fade over time producing metamerism, but there is little to no proof 
> of the latter using the newer Epson UC inks. The prints I've seen 
> using Imageprint as a RIP are as good as any I've seen( other than 
> fiber-based halide)using any other ink systems. Why burden yourself 
> with ink clogs and  ever-changing curves, etc. It's a technology bog. 
> I've found the upfront costs of Imageprint( admittedly a RIP-off, pun 
> intended) to be worth the cost in the long run.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
> <jfisher@s...> wrote:
> > I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my Epson 
> 7600 inked
> >  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a 
> Windows XP Pro system 
> > and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson 
> Enhanced Matte to learn 
> > on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any 
> suggestions as to 
> > what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just play 
> around and find my 
> > way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I 
> thought if I ask you 
> > folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some 
> successful results.
> >  
> >  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in 
> the future.
> >  
> >  Jack Fisher
> >  St. Louis, MO

Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by dave08g

Hi,

I can certainly understand why someone would want to go to third party
inks if they are using a Windows system and didn't want to shell out
big bucks for Image Print.  But I would like to know why anyone with a
MAC and 2200 would prefer a third party ink solution to either OPM or
QTR.  

I am using a MAC/2200 with UC inks and QTR and I love the results.  Is
there a better solution that gives better print quality, longevity,
lower costs, etc that I don't know about?  If so, which system? 
 
Thanks,

Dave Gordon

DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@t...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> What's the problem with options? You see people on lists seeking help
> with problems, there are others with few to none using 3rd party inks
> that have no time for lists, and Epsons are hardly free of problems
> either. Some people, including myself, also prefer the results they
> get from other processes to the B&W solution from Imageprint, and also
> may prefer the companies they deal with to Colorbyte.
> It sounds like you have your solution and are happy with it, and are
> convinced it's the only way, so I'm not sure what kind of answer you
> are looking for.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
> <monroekd@h...> wrote:
> > Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial and 
> > error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third party ink 
> > systems when all you really need is a good RIP using Epson inks. I 
> > know someone will counter that one of the colored Epson UC inks( 
> > yellow is the usual culprit mentioned) will 
> > fade over time producing metamerism, but there is little to no proof 
> > of the latter using the newer Epson UC inks. The prints I've seen 
> > using Imageprint as a RIP are as good as any I've seen( other than 
> > fiber-based halide)using any other ink systems. Why burden yourself 
> > with ink clogs and  ever-changing curves, etc. It's a technology bog. 

> > I've found the upfront costs of Imageprint( admittedly a RIP-off, pun 
> > intended) to be worth the cost in the long run.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
> > <jfisher@s...> wrote:
> > > I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my Epson 
> > 7600 inked
> > >  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a 
> > Windows XP Pro system 
> > > and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson 
> > Enhanced Matte to learn 
> > > on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any 
> > suggestions as to 
> > > what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just play 
> > around and find my 
> > > way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I 
> > thought if I ask you 
> > > folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some 
> > successful results.
> > >  
> > >  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in 
> > the future.
> > >  
> > >  Jack Fisher
> > >  St. Louis, MO

Re: [Digital BW] Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by Kip Babington

For some of us who do not sell prints for profit, a real issue is 
cost.  Last year I got very nice results B&W with a Canon S9000 using Lyson 
Quad Black bulk inks that I used to refill cartridges, for under 
$2.50/cartridge.  I couldn't get durable B&W results from Canon inks at any 
price.  On the Epson side, wouldn't a 2200 + RIP run me about $1000+?  And 
what would my ink cost per print be using Epson inks with that setup?  I'll 
bet it would far exceed $0.50 and might approach $1.00.

This year I am probably going to use an Epson C84 with the MIS EZ 
inks.  I'll have about $150 invested in the printer and CIS system, and my 
preliminary estimate is that my per-print cost for ink will be under 10 
cents.  I don't think I could do the kind of B&W I'm getting from those 
inks using Epson OEM inks, and certainly not at as low a cost per print.

I print nearly 1000 prints (8x8 on 8.5x11 paper) to bind and give away each 
Christmas, and the difference in cost between third party inks and OEM inks 
is dramatic.

Cheers,
Kip

At 7/14/2004 08:23 PM +0000, you wrote, in part:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial and
>error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third party ink
>systems when all you really need is a good RIP using Epson inks.

RE: [Digital BW] Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by kris

I think the answer is 'why not'...  Epson's ink prices
are WAY beyond the 3rd party systems, and they are doing
everything they can to prohibit any competitive options.
It's nice to have options...

If your solution of epson inks and a good RIP is the 
answer, that's great.  If you want to save a few $ on
printing costs, go to a 3rd party ink system and it 
still might be great!  

-kris
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: digikdm [mailto:monroekd@...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:24 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Why bother with third party inks?
> 
> Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial 
> and error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third 
> party ink systems when all you really need is a good RIP 
> using Epson inks. I know someone will counter that one of the 
> colored Epson UC inks( yellow is the usual culprit mentioned) 
> will fade over time producing metamerism, but there is little 
> to no proof of the latter using the newer Epson UC inks. The 
> prints I've seen using Imageprint as a RIP are as good as any 
> I've seen( other than fiber-based halide)using any other ink 
> systems. Why burden yourself with ink clogs and  
> ever-changing curves, etc. It's a technology bog. 
> I've found the upfront costs of Imageprint( admittedly a RIP-off, pun
> intended) to be worth the cost in the long run.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
> <jfisher@s...> wrote:
> > I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my Epson
> 7600 inked
> >  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a
> Windows XP Pro system 
> > and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson
> Enhanced Matte to learn 
> > on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any
> suggestions as to 
> > what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just play
> around and find my 
> > way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I
> thought if I ask you 
> > folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some
> successful results.
> >  
> >  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in
> the future.
> >  
> >  Jack Fisher
> >  St. Louis, MO
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. 
> Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------~-> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
> preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
> messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by Tyler Boley

So many of the answers to your questions would be subjective that I
for one don't want to enter this debate. It's been going on for years
and there is no "best", period. It depends on the user's needs. For
example, one of your qualifiers was lower cost. All of us would like
something that was nearly free, but I have always held print quality
higher than cost. I never used RC papers in the darkroom, I'm sure
they were cheaper than the fine fiber papers I could barely afford.
Even print quality is subjective, people whose taste I respect find BO
printing superb, I don't. You can find countless posts on this list
and others over these issues. If you love your results, be happy. I
love my results, be happy for me. I think one of the best things
people can do is take part in print exchanges if they want to see for
themselves. Some people find differences between systems
indistinguishable that I think are fairly major. We all have different
expectations, so it's great there are now so many options that yield
satisfying results.
What point is there in stating that everyone should be doing what I'm
doing?
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dave08g"
<dave08g@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I can certainly understand why someone would want to go to third party
> inks if they are using a Windows system and didn't want to shell out
> big bucks for Image Print.  But I would like to know why anyone with a
> MAC and 2200 would prefer a third party ink solution to either OPM or
> QTR.  
> 
> I am using a MAC/2200 with UC inks and QTR and I love the results.  Is
> there a better solution that gives better print quality, longevity,
> lower costs, etc that I don't know about?  If so, which system? 
>  
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave Gordon
> 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@t...> wrote:
> > What's the problem with options? You see people on lists seeking help
> > with problems, there are others with few to none using 3rd party inks
> > that have no time for lists, and Epsons are hardly free of problems
> > either. Some people, including myself, also prefer the results they
> > get from other processes to the B&W solution from Imageprint, and also
> > may prefer the companies they deal with to Colorbyte.
> > It sounds like you have your solution and are happy with it, and are
> > convinced it's the only way, so I'm not sure what kind of answer you
> > are looking for.
> > Tyler
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
> > <monroekd@h...> wrote:
> > > Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial and 
> > > error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third party ink 
> > > systems when all you really need is a good RIP using Epson inks. I 
> > > know someone will counter that one of the colored Epson UC inks( 
> > > yellow is the usual culprit mentioned) will 
> > > fade over time producing metamerism, but there is little to no
proof 
> > > of the latter using the newer Epson UC inks. The prints I've seen 
> > > using Imageprint as a RIP are as good as any I've seen( other than 
> > > fiber-based halide)using any other ink systems. Why burden yourself 
> > > with ink clogs and  ever-changing curves, etc. It's a technology
bog. 
> 
> > > I've found the upfront costs of Imageprint( admittedly a
RIP-off, pun 
> > > intended) to be worth the cost in the long run.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
> > > <jfisher@s...> wrote:
> > > > I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my
Epson 
> > > 7600 inked
> > > >  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a 
> > > Windows XP Pro system 
> > > > and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson 
> > > Enhanced Matte to learn 
> > > > on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any 
> > > suggestions as to 
> > > > what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just
play 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > around and find my 
> > > > way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I 
> > > thought if I ask you 
> > > > folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some 
> > > successful results.
> > > >  
> > > >  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in 
> > > the future.
> > > >  
> > > >  Jack Fisher
> > > >  St. Louis, MO

Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by Andre

Simple. Cost of ink (MIS is cheaper than Epson), longevity (Carbon
pigment ink will last longer than color pigment), and an easy solution
to b&w printing (No RIP needed, just simple adjustment curves).

I've been using the same printer for the past four years. So where's
the problem ?

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by Austin Franklin

Very well put, Tyler.  Thank you.

Regards,

Austin
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> So many of the answers to your questions would be subjective that I
> for one don't want to enter this debate. It's been going on for years
> and there is no "best", period. It depends on the user's needs. For
> example, one of your qualifiers was lower cost. All of us would like
> something that was nearly free, but I have always held print quality
> higher than cost. I never used RC papers in the darkroom, I'm sure
> they were cheaper than the fine fiber papers I could barely afford.
> Even print quality is subjective, people whose taste I respect find BO
> printing superb, I don't. You can find countless posts on this list
> and others over these issues. If you love your results, be happy. I
> love my results, be happy for me. I think one of the best things
> people can do is take part in print exchanges if they want to see for
> themselves. Some people find differences between systems
> indistinguishable that I think are fairly major. We all have different
> expectations, so it's great there are now so many options that yield
> satisfying results.
> What point is there in stating that everyone should be doing what I'm
> doing?
> Tyler

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-14 by Ross Borgida

Really it comes down to whether you want to use the epson 2200 for color and black and white or just black and white..if you are using color and black and white, stick with the epson UC inks and a RIP..however, if you are only doing black and white, I would suggest a quadtone ink setup...i have used Imageprint but am now using the UT2 inks and the results are superior to the RIP w/ epson uc ink results..that is just my opinion though..
 
you can ask IJM or MIS to send samples of prints before purchasing..that way, you can get a taste for whats out there before making your investment.
 
good luck and have fun!

dave08g <dave08g@...> wrote:
Hi,

I can certainly understand why someone would want to go to third party
inks if they are using a Windows system and didn't want to shell out
big bucks for Image Print.  But I would like to know why anyone with a
MAC and 2200 would prefer a third party ink solution to either OPM or
QTR.  

I am using a MAC/2200 with UC inks and QTR and I love the results.  Is
there a better solution that gives better print quality, longevity,
lower costs, etc that I don't know about?  If so, which system? 

Thanks,

Dave Gordon

DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@t...> wrote:
> What's the problem with options? You see people on lists seeking help
> with problems, there are others with few to none using 3rd party inks
> that have no time for lists, and Epsons are hardly free of problems
> either. Some people, including myself, also prefer the results they
> get from other processes to the B&W solution from Imageprint, and also
> may prefer the companies they deal with to Colorbyte.
> It sounds like you have your solution and are happy with it, and are
> convinced it's the only way, so I'm not sure what kind of answer you
> are looking for.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
> <monroekd@h...> wrote:
> > Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial and 
> > error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third party ink 
> > systems when all you really need is a good RIP using Epson inks. I 
> > know someone will counter that one of the colored Epson UC inks( 
> > yellow is the usual culprit mentioned) will 
> > fade over time producing metamerism, but there is little to no proof 
> > of the latter using the newer Epson UC inks. The prints I've seen 
> > using Imageprint as a RIP are as good as any I've seen( other than 
> > fiber-based halide)using any other ink systems. Why burden yourself 
> > with ink clogs and  ever-changing curves, etc. It's a technology bog. 

> > I've found the upfront costs of Imageprint( admittedly a RIP-off, pun 
> > intended) to be worth the cost in the long run.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
> > <jfisher@s...> wrote:
> > > I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my Epson 
> > 7600 inked
> > >  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a 
> > Windows XP Pro system 
> > > and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson 
> > Enhanced Matte to learn 
> > > on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any 
> > suggestions as to 
> > > what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just play 
> > around and find my 
> > > way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I 
> > thought if I ask you 
> > > folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some 
> > successful results.
> > >  
> > >  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in 
> > the future.
> > >  
> > >  Jack Fisher
> > >  St. Louis, MO



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.



Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT


---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
  
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-15 by Tom Baker

The best answer might be that if there were no third party options, the only 'quad' we would be seeing is in Epson 'quading' the price for their stuff.  I don't use the third party inks, but I sure don't want them to go away. 
Tom Baker

Tyler Boley <tyler@...> wrote:
So many of the answers to your questions would be subjective that I
for one don't want to enter this debate. It's been going on for years
and there is no "best", period. It depends on the user's needs. For
example, one of your qualifiers was lower cost. All of us would like
something that was nearly free, but I have always held print quality
higher than cost. I never used RC papers in the darkroom, I'm sure
they were cheaper than the fine fiber papers I could barely afford.
Even print quality is subjective, people whose taste I respect find BO
printing superb, I don't. You can find countless posts on this list
and others over these issues. If you love your results, be happy. I
love my results, be happy for me. I think one of the best things
people can do is take part in print exchanges if they want to see for
themselves. Some people find differences between systems
indistinguishable that I think are fairly major. We all have different
expectations, so it's great there are now so many options that yield
satisfying results.
What point is there in stating that everyone should be doing what I'm
doing?
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dave08g"
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I can certainly understand why someone would want to go to third party
> inks if they are using a Windows system and didn't want to shell out
> big bucks for Image Print. But I would like to know why anyone with a
> MAC and 2200 would prefer a third party ink solution to either OPM or
> QTR. 
> 
> I am using a MAC/2200 with UC inks and QTR and I love the results. Is
> there a better solution that gives better print quality, longevity,
> lower costs, etc that I don't know about? If so, which system? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave Gordon
> 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> wrote:
> > What's the problem with options? You see people on lists seeking help
> > with problems, there are others with few to none using 3rd party inks
> > that have no time for lists, and Epsons are hardly free of problems
> > either. Some people, including myself, also prefer the results they
> > get from other processes to the B&W solution from Imageprint, and also
> > may prefer the companies they deal with to Colorbyte.
> > It sounds like you have your solution and are happy with it, and are
> > convinced it's the only way, so I'm not sure what kind of answer you
> > are looking for.
> > Tyler
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
> > wrote:
> > > Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial and 
> > > error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third party ink 
> > > systems when all you really need is a good RIP using Epson inks. I 
> > > know someone will counter that one of the colored Epson UC inks( 
> > > yellow is the usual culprit mentioned) will 
> > > fade over time producing metamerism, but there is little to no
proof 
> > > of the latter using the newer Epson UC inks. The prints I've seen 
> > > using Imageprint as a RIP are as good as any I've seen( other than 
> > > fiber-based halide)using any other ink systems. Why burden yourself 
> > > with ink clogs and ever-changing curves, etc. It's a technology
bog. 
> 
> > > I've found the upfront costs of Imageprint( admittedly a
RIP-off, pun 
> > > intended) to be worth the cost in the long run.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
> > > wrote:
> > > > I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my
Epson 
> > > 7600 inked
> > > > with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a 
> > > Windows XP Pro system 
> > > > and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson 
> > > Enhanced Matte to learn 
> > > > on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any 
> > > suggestions as to 
> > > > what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just
play 
> > > around and find my 
> > > > way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I 
> > > thought if I ask you 
> > > > folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some 
> > > successful results.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in 
> > > the future.
> > > > 
> > > > Jack Fisher
> > > > St. Louis, MO




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-15 by dave08g

Ross,

Thanks for your comments.  I am doing BW and also some color with my
2200.  There's probably alot I can do to improve my printing with the
system I'm using right now - I've been doing digital printing for less
the a year and I'm still on a learning curve.  Its nice to know there
are other options out there if I ever decide to get a dedicated BW
set-up.  

I have an Epson C84 that I got for free (after rebates) that I am
considering using the MIS EZ BW set-up.  That might be a cheap way to
try out third party inks and compare side by side with my current
set-up.  

Dave

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ross Borgida
<borgida@y...> wrote:
> Really it comes down to whether you want to use the epson 2200 for
color and black and white or just black and white..if you are using
color and black and white, stick with the epson UC inks and a
RIP..however, if you are only doing black and white, I would suggest a
quadtone ink setup...i have used Imageprint but am now using the UT2
inks and the results are superior to the RIP w/ epson uc ink
results..that is just my opinion though..
>  
> you can ask IJM or MIS to send samples of prints before
purchasing..that way, you can get a taste for whats out there before
making your investment.
>  
> good luck and have fun!
> 
> dave08g <dave08g@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I can certainly understand why someone would want to go to third party
> inks if they are using a Windows system and didn't want to shell out
> big bucks for Image Print.  But I would like to know why anyone with a
> MAC and 2200 would prefer a third party ink solution to either OPM or
> QTR.  
> 
> I am using a MAC/2200 with UC inks and QTR and I love the results.  Is
> there a better solution that gives better print quality, longevity,
> lower costs, etc that I don't know about?  If so, which system? 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave Gordon
> 
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@t...> wrote:
> > What's the problem with options? You see people on lists seeking help
> > with problems, there are others with few to none using 3rd party inks
> > that have no time for lists, and Epsons are hardly free of problems
> > either. Some people, including myself, also prefer the results they
> > get from other processes to the B&W solution from Imageprint, and also
> > may prefer the companies they deal with to Colorbyte.
> > It sounds like you have your solution and are happy with it, and are
> > convinced it's the only way, so I'm not sure what kind of answer you
> > are looking for.
> > Tyler
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
> > <monroekd@h...> wrote:
> > > Would someone explain to be why there is so much banter/trial and 
> > > error/ and switching of vendors with regards to third party ink 
> > > systems when all you really need is a good RIP using Epson inks. I 
> > > know someone will counter that one of the colored Epson UC inks( 
> > > yellow is the usual culprit mentioned) will 
> > > fade over time producing metamerism, but there is little to no
proof 
> > > of the latter using the newer Epson UC inks. The prints I've seen 
> > > using Imageprint as a RIP are as good as any I've seen( other than 
> > > fiber-based halide)using any other ink systems. Why burden yourself 
> > > with ink clogs and  ever-changing curves, etc. It's a technology
bog. 
> 
> > > I've found the upfront costs of Imageprint( admittedly a
RIP-off, pun 
> > > intended) to be worth the cost in the long run.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "tigertwous" 
> > > <jfisher@s...> wrote:
> > > > I've just ordered my set of Piezography inks from IJM for my
Epson 
> > > 7600 inked
> > > >  with matt black UC inks, I'm running Studio Print 10 from a 
> > > Windows XP Pro system 
> > > > and will have access to a X-rite DTP41. I plan on using Epson 
> > > Enhanced Matte to learn 
> > > > on but will move up to some other types as I get my feet wet. Any 
> > > suggestions as to 
> > > > what I should do first (other than the obvious) I usually just
play 
> > > around and find my 
> > > > way in the dark and eventually come up with what I need, but I 
> > > thought if I ask you 
> > > > folks I may be able to shorten the time it takes to achieve some 
> > > successful results.
> > > >  
> > > >  Thanks I'm looking forward to making some spectacular prints in 
> > > the future.
> > > >  
> > > >  Jack Fisher
> > > >  St. Louis, MO
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the
Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER"
AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE
LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES),
RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD
PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>   
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-15 by Kip Babington

If you haven't tried it yet, run an image or two through your C84 with the 
Epson inks and set it to Black Only printing.  I got very nice results that 
way, although I think the EZ results are even better, and offer some 
adjustment of tone from neutral to warm by the selective replacement of 
neutral with warm cartridges.  I fooled around with a set of neutral and a 
set of warm cartridges, and decided that neutral in the cyan and yellow 
positions with warm in the magenta position gave the tone I was looking 
for.  I just ordered one of the CIS units (empty - I'll have to fill the 
carts and lines the way I want them) and expect to have a very nice run of 
prints for my Christmas books this year.  Consideration is being given to 
getting a second printer - just to have as a backup in case disaster 
strikes at an inopportune time.  Wish I'd known enough to buy two when I 
got the first one (for $24) a month or so ago.

Enjoy the C84.  I think it's a dandy little device.

Cheers,
Kip

At 7/15/2004 01:16 AM +0000, Dave wrote, in part:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I have an Epson C84 that I got for free (after rebates) that I am
>considering using the MIS EZ BW set-up.  That might be a cheap way to
>try out third party inks and compare side by side with my current
>set-up.

C84/EZ Inks and Banding

2004-07-15 by Kip Babington

I've had a curious experience playing around with a C84 and the MIS EZ inks 
in cartridges.  I've found that Paul Roark's suggestion for printing on EEM 
with the driver set to Plain Paper, Best Photo, and reduced Brightness and 
Contrast, does indeed produce a darker black in the shadows (visual 
analysis, don't have a spectro-whatever) and a slightly darker print 
overall than the same image printed selecting Matte Heavyweight paper and 0 
Brightness and Contrast adjustments.  However, in one of the images that I 
used to test various combinations of neutral and warm cartridges, I got 
distinct banding in the areas that I'd estimate are around 95% 
density.  (Nozzle checks are fine before and after the print.)  These bands 
also appear in the same area when I rotate the image 180 degrees (which 
suggests to me that it's a driver issue, not a mechanical issue) and they 
do NOT appear when I print the image selecting Matte Heavyweight paper - 
both high or low speed show no signs of banding.

I've about decided to do my printing using the Matte paper high speed 
setting, and building in a bit more snap by setting Brightness -2 and 
Contrast +2.  But I'm wondering if there's an obvious explanation for the 
banding when using the plain paper setting?

Cheers,
Kip

Re: Why bother with third party inks?

2004-07-16 by john dean

What Andre says makes since to me. 

 However, I am going to do both. Cone inks in a 7000 and UC in a 9600 with a rip. I am 
not sure of the greater stability of Piezography but hope this is the case. If the Cone inkset 
can approach the permanence of gelatin silver selenium toned archivally produced  fiber  
prints then this company is going to do well. There is ALWAYS a market for permanence.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Andre" <am1000@v...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Simple. Cost of ink (MIS is cheaper than Epson), longevity (Carbon
> pigment ink will last longer than color pigment), and an easy solution
> to b&w printing (No RIP needed, just simple adjustment curves).
> 
> I've been using the same printer for the past four years. So where's
> the problem ?

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.