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Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Paul Roark

I recently received some samples of paper from Hawk Mountain and gave them a
quick test on a 1280 with UT2 installed.  In that past, only Condor has had
a strong enough dmax (at least 1.6) to be of interest to me.  In this sample
of paper, this pattern largely continued.  

 

Here are the dmax readings for the papers I received:

 

Condor BW -- Dmax of 1.62, and very cold.  This paper is very similar to the
old Eclipse paper.

 

Kestrel Brite White -- This cold press paper printed quite well, with a dmax
of 1.60 using "Photo Quality Glossy Film" paper type.  For those who like a
textured and fairly cold paper, this 310 gsm paper might be worth trying.

 

Osprey Natural -- Dmax 1.53.

 

Merlin Photo -- Dmax 1.53.

 

Merlin Smooth -- Dmax of 1.54. 

 

Merlin Velvet -- Dmax of 1.48 using "Photo Quality Glossy Film."

 

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.paulroark.com/>  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Matt Haber

dumb question, paul. Did you print on the side with the labels, or the 
other side?

> I recently received some samples of paper from Hawk Mountain and gave them a
> quick test on a 1280 with UT2 installed.  In that past, only Condor has had
> a strong enough dmax (at least 1.6) to be of interest to me.
--
Matt Haber
dance, portrait and fashion photography
http://www.matthaber.com

RE: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Paul Roark

I give each paper the "tongue" test to be sure it has not been packaged
incorrectly.  I also test several media type settings to be sure the paper
is not being overloaded.  Merlin Velvet, for example, did better with a
light load.

I really think a major reason Photo Rag is so popular is that it hits 1.7 on
the dmax.  It's the champ.  Dynamic range is a major attribute that we're
after, and until a paper gets over 1.6 dmax it's really not much of a
contender in my view.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Haber [mailto:matt@...] 
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 7:31 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

dumb question, paul. Did you print on the side with the labels, or the 
other side?

> I recently received some samples of paper from Hawk Mountain and gave them
a
> quick test on a 1280 with UT2 installed.  In that past, only Condor has
had
> a strong enough dmax (at least 1.6) to be of interest to me.
--
Matt Haber
dance, portrait and fashion photography
http://www.matthaber.com




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RE: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Paul Roark

Hawk Mtn's Condor BW is the winner in its stable from what I can tell.  

A comparison of it to Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 Bright White is interesting.

Here are the spectrophotometer readings of the 2 papers, printed on a 1280
with UT2 at 1440 with no curves (C, M, Y, Visual Density):


Condor BW paper white:     .02, .02, -.01, .02

Moab BW paper white:       .02, .02, -.01, .02

Condor 50%:                .54, .55, .52, .55

Moab 50%:                  .54, .55, .52, .54

Condor 100%:               1.61, 1.62, 1.63, 1.62

Moab 100%:                 1.61, 1.62, 1.62, 1.61.



Pricing for 25 sheets of 13 x 19" paper:  

Hawk Mtn. Condor BW on its website -- $65

Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 on Lexjet website -- $51.


These are the heirs to Eclipse, which was a favorite and great value until
BriteCube went into bankruptcy.  With 2 companies now going after that
market, I wonder how they can distinguish themselves?  I have an answer:
solve the flaking problem.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by borgida

Hi Paul

Do you have curves or driver slider settings for the Condor BW?  I am 
interested in creating neutral prints with the Condow BW and 
comparing to my neutral prints with William Turner paper.  Also, I 
would like to create a neutral step wedge with Condor BW and compare 
with William Turner for density values.

Thanks
Ross

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Hawk Mtn's Condor BW is the winner in its stable from what I can 
tell.  
> 
> A comparison of it to Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 Bright White is 
interesting.
> 
> Here are the spectrophotometer readings of the 2 papers, printed on 
a 1280
> with UT2 at 1440 with no curves (C, M, Y, Visual Density):
> 
> 
> Condor BW paper white:     .02, .02, -.01, .02
> 
> Moab BW paper white:       .02, .02, -.01, .02
> 
> Condor 50%:                .54, .55, .52, .55
> 
> Moab 50%:                  .54, .55, .52, .54
> 
> Condor 100%:               1.61, 1.62, 1.63, 1.62
> 
> Moab 100%:                 1.61, 1.62, 1.62, 1.61.
> 
> 
> 
> Pricing for 25 sheets of 13 x 19" paper:  
> 
> Hawk Mtn. Condor BW on its website -- $65
> 
> Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 on Lexjet website -- $51.
> 
> 
> These are the heirs to Eclipse, which was a favorite and great 
value until
> BriteCube went into bankruptcy.  With 2 companies now going after 
that
> market, I wonder how they can distinguish themselves?  I have an 
answer:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> solve the flaking problem.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Clayton Jones

Hello Paul,

>Condor BW and Entrada BW .02/.54/1.61
>Pricing for 25 sheets of 13 x 19" paper:  
>Hawk Mtn. Condor BW on its website -- $65
>Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 on Lexjet website -- $51.

Very nice detective work!  Do you suppose they are the same paper from
the same mfgr?


>solve the flaking problem.

Amen.  And the same to H. as well.  Paying PR's high price and then
having it's bad flaking is adding insult to injury.  I wonder if they
care and are working on a solution...


Thanks for all your good work.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

RE: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Paul Roark

Ross,


>Do you have curves or driver slider settings for the Condor BW?

Not yet, but on my UT7 information sheet I have the following note:  "For a
very cool-tone paper that is also very reasonably priced for a cotton, try
Moab Entrada Fine Art.  Use the Enhanced Matte settings.  Moab has both a
brightened version and a version with no optical brighteners."

Since the 2 papers appear to have the same coatings, the note probably
applies to Condor also.  Because it is so cold, I think the medium warm
curve produces a neutral image.

>I am interested in creating neutral prints with the Condow BW and
>comparing to my neutral prints with William Turner paper.  
>Also, I would like to create a neutral step wedge with Condor BW 
>and compare with William Turner for density values.

I'm not familiar with W. Turner, but most of the Hahnemuhle papers have a
better dmax and a more neutral paper base.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

____________________________________

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Hawk Mtn's Condor BW is the winner in its stable from what I can 
tell.  
> 
> A comparison of it to Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 Bright White is 
interesting.
> 
> Here are the spectrophotometer readings of the 2 papers, printed on 
a 1280
> with UT2 at 1440 with no curves (C, M, Y, Visual Density):
> 
> 
> Condor BW paper white:     .02, .02, -.01, .02
> 
> Moab BW paper white:       .02, .02, -.01, .02
> 
> Condor 50%:                .54, .55, .52, .55
> 
> Moab 50%:                  .54, .55, .52, .54
> 
> Condor 100%:               1.61, 1.62, 1.63, 1.62
> 
> Moab 100%:                 1.61, 1.62, 1.62, 1.61.
> 
> 
> 
> Pricing for 25 sheets of 13 x 19" paper:  
> 
> Hawk Mtn. Condor BW on its website -- $65
> 
> Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 on Lexjet website -- $51.
> 
> 
> These are the heirs to Eclipse, which was a favorite and great 
value until
> BriteCube went into bankruptcy.  With 2 companies now going after 
that
> market, I wonder how they can distinguish themselves?  I have an 
answer:
> solve the flaking problem.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com




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RE: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Paul Roark

Clayton,

I think Condor BW and Moab Entrada BW both use the same coating (old Eclipse
coating).  The Hawk Mountain version is said to be 310 v. 300 gsm for the
thicker Entrada (which is also available at 190 gsm).  However, visually
they look about the same -- one side slightly more textured than the other.
So, I'm not sure but what they are coming off the same machine.

Eclipse used to flake badly.  I'm afraid Entrada is plagued with the same
problem.  I have not used enough Condor BW to know.

Jerry O., who loved very cold prints, used Eclipse and found that wiping it
with a soft cloth eliminated the problem, without, apparently, leaving any
marks.  (PhotoRag can show the wiping or brushing marks.)

Frankly, no flaking and a dmax of 1.65 or better is what I consider to be a
reasonable target for a good cotton paper.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayton Jones [mailto:cj@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:36 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

Hello Paul,

>Condor BW and Entrada BW .02/.54/1.61
>Pricing for 25 sheets of 13 x 19" paper:  
>Hawk Mtn. Condor BW on its website -- $65
>Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 on Lexjet website -- $51.

Very nice detective work!  Do you suppose they are the same paper from
the same mfgr?


>solve the flaking problem.

Amen.  And the same to H. as well.  Paying PR's high price and then
having it's bad flaking is adding insult to injury.  I wonder if they
care and are working on a solution...


Thanks for all your good work.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm




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Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Carl Schofield

Paul,

Premier Premium Matte fits the dmax 1.65+ and no flaking criteria, but 
it is unfortunately not cotton (although claimed to be acid and lignin 
free) and 210 gsm is the heaviest available.  Did you ever test this 
paper for acid and/or yellowing?

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 12:04  PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> Frankly, no flaking and a dmax of 1.65 or better is what I consider to 
> be a
> reasonable target for a good cotton paper.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> ________________________________

Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Clayton Jones

Paul,

>The Hawk Mountain version is said to be 310 v. 300 gsm for the
>thicker Entrada

I just looked at the Hawk Mtn website and it lists Condor BW at 300.


>Eclipse used to flake badly.  I'm afraid Entrada is plagued with 
>the same problem.  I have not used enough Condor BW to know.

I've used one box of Condor BW at this point and found the flaking to
be controllable by a firm wipe with a soft cloth (old T-shirt)
followed by a shot of compressed air (I do this procedure with all
cotton papers).

With PR on the other hand I find myself discarding 15 to 20% of prints
_after_ the same procedure.  I have quite a few prints with large
areas of black and all it takes is one little flake to ruin it.  It's
maddening.  

So far Condor has been very satisfactory.  The only prints I've lost
were quickie test prints that I didn't bother to wipe.  It's really
nice stuff, only for some images the cold highlights are just too
harsh, and that's where I like Merlin Smooth.  It's warmer paper color
softens the highlights, and its ink color is quite cool.  I find it's
Dmax to be fine in many cases - it just depends on the image (I love
Dmax as much as anyone, but I've found that many images can be very
powerful without PhotoRag).  PR is now on "last resort" status for me
- only if nothing else will do.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

RE: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Paul Roark

Carl,

>Premier Premium Matte fits the dmax 1.65+ and no flaking criteria, 
>but it is unfortunately not cotton (although claimed to be acid 
>and lignin free) and 210 gsm is the heaviest available.  

>Did you ever test this paper for acid and/or yellowing?

I have had a couple of beta samples, which impressed me also.  I found the
samples I had did very well on the 3000, but did not have a very good dmax
on the newer printers.

I have been trying to get production samples of this paper, but so far have
not received any.

I have been told that no wood-based paper can actually be 100% lignin free.
I think <1% is what is realistically considered "archival" if the buffer is
>2%.  The residual lignin might still cause some yellowing, since it is
photo sensitive as well as an acid reserve.  However, in testing EEM (which
is typical of a good wood-fiber paper, but without buffering), I found under
strong UV it, like the cotton papers, actually bleached somewhat.  So, it's
possible that a good wood paper that is properly buffered is fine and will
not yellow significantly.

In fact, it's possible a wood-based paper can be better than cotton.  I
suspect the flaking problem is due to the softness of the cotton paper.  I
think of a coating of clay on a pillow.  Also, the huge irony may be that
lignin appears to absorb atmospheric pollutants, protecting the paper and
pigments from gas pollution attack.

I would not count on the above, but the bottom line is that a good
wood-based paper may be fine and a good value.  I think a buffered wood
paper that matches EEM on both the image quality and price fronts would do
the field a tremendous amount of good.  The sooner we can dump EEM as the
draft and everyday paper of choice, the better.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

___________________



On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 12:04  PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> Frankly, no flaking and a dmax of 1.65 or better is what I consider to 
> be a
> reasonable target for a good cotton paper.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> ________________________________




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Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Richard Sintchak

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:35:39 -0000, Clayton Jones <cj@...> wrote:
> Hello Paul,
> 
> >Condor BW and Entrada BW .02/.54/1.61
> >Pricing for 25 sheets of 13 x 19" paper:  
> >Hawk Mtn. Condor BW on its website -- $65
> >Moab Entrada Fine Art 300 on Lexjet website -- $51.
> 
> Very nice detective work!  Do you suppose they are the same paper from
> the same mfgr?

I just printed the same image on 8 papers last night:

Moab Kokepelli Photo Matte
Moab Entrada Fine Art Smooth
Merlin Smooth
Condor BW
Hahnlemuhle Photo Rag
Hahnemuhle William Turner
Arches Infinity Fine Art Smooth
Epson Enhanced Matte

I've laid them out and compared them briefly last night.  I am waiting
until later today (I'm at work now) to do more definitive comparisons
after all the inks have dried and when the lighting is better. 
However, I did notice significant similarity of the Condor BW and
Entrada Fine Art Smooth.  Blacks looked at first glance a little
darker on Condor but the paper color and ink colors looked very close.
 Will report back more later.

Also at first glance, the William Turner, although quite warm, really
had the best blacks, sharpest details and best shadow detail.  PR
also.  Darn flaking!  Darn prices!



Richard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> >solve the flaking problem.
> 
> Amen.  And the same to H. as well.  Paying PR's high price and then
> having it's bad flaking is adding insult to injury.  I wonder if they
> care and are working on a solution...
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your good work.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at    
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Digital BW] Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-07-27 by Carl Schofield

Paul,

I sent an email to premierimaging products  about the current 
availability of Premier Premium Matte and just received this reply:

"This particular paper has been pulled off the market pending 
re-formulation.
All of our other papers are available.
Thank you,
Tom Feikls"

We could hope for an improved product or this may just be another 
potentially good paper that bit the dust.

Carl
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 12:57  PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> Carl,
>
>> Premier Premium Matte fits the dmax 1.65+ and no flaking criteria,
>> but it is unfortunately not cotton (although claimed to be acid
>> and lignin free) and 210 gsm is the heaviest available.
>
>> Did you ever test this paper for acid and/or yellowing?
>
> I have had a couple of beta samples, which impressed me also.  I found 
> the
> samples I had did very well on the 3000, but did not have a very good 
> dmax
> on the newer printers.
>
> I have been trying to get production samples of this paper, but so far 
> have
> not received any.
>
> I have been told that no wood-based paper can actually be 100% lignin 
> free.
> I think <1% is what is realistically considered "archival" if the 
> buffer is
>> 2%.  The residual lignin might still cause some yellowing, since it is
> photo sensitive as well as an acid reserve.  However, in testing EEM 
> (which
> is typical of a good wood-fiber paper, but without buffering), I found 
> under
> strong UV it, like the cotton papers, actually bleached somewhat.  So, 
> it's
> possible that a good wood paper that is properly buffered is fine and 
> will
> not yellow significantly.
>
> In fact, it's possible a wood-based paper can be better than cotton.  I
> suspect the flaking problem is due to the softness of the cotton 
> paper.  I
> think of a coating of clay on a pillow.  Also, the huge irony may be 
> that
> lignin appears to absorb atmospheric pollutants, protecting the paper 
> and
> pigments from gas pollution attack.
>
> I would not count on the above, but the bottom line is that a good
> wood-based paper may be fine and a good value.  I think a buffered wood
> paper that matches EEM on both the image quality and price fronts 
> would do
> the field a tremendous amount of good.  The sooner we can dump EEM as 
> the
> draft and everyday paper of choice, the better.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
> ___________________
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 12:04  PM, Paul Roark wrote:
>
>> Frankly, no flaking and a dmax of 1.65 or better is what I consider to
>> be a
>> reasonable target for a good cotton paper.
>>
>> Paul
>> www.PaulRoark.com
>> ________________________________

Re: Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-08-02 by nick_h_nugent

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:

> I've used one box of Condor BW at this point and found the flaking 
> to be controllable by a firm wipe with a soft cloth (old T-shirt)
> followed by a shot of compressed air (I do this procedure with all
> cotton papers).

I deviced another method which I think has reduced the chance of
flaking quite a bit for me. I'd put the paper between two sheets of
release papers and roll it one way and then another using a tube of
about 2 inches in diameter. I just make sure that the direction of the
final curl is such that the initial edge of the print won't interfere
with the print head. This method seems to get more possible flakes out
than wiping. It's also a pretty good way to straighten paper that is
cut from a roll.

> With PR on the other hand I find myself discarding 15 to 20% of 
> prints _after_ the same procedure.  I have quite a few prints with 
> large areas of black and all it takes is one little flake to ruin 
> it.  It's maddening.

I have never used PR before but it's dmax is very tempting. I was
hoping to find something cheaper which can yield the same dmax. Try
this roll method to see if you can reduce flaking with PR.

--nick

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-08-02 by Richard Sintchak

nick, what are "release papers"?

Richard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: nick_h_nugent <nick_h_nugent@...>
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 19:33:58 -0000
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers
To: digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:

> I've used one box of Condor BW at this point and found the flaking 
> to be controllable by a firm wipe with a soft cloth (old T-shirt)
> followed by a shot of compressed air (I do this procedure with all
> cotton papers).

I deviced another method which I think has reduced the chance of
flaking quite a bit for me. I'd put the paper between two sheets of
release papers and roll it one way and then another using a tube of
about 2 inches in diameter. I just make sure that the direction of the
final curl is such that the initial edge of the print won't interfere
with the print head. This method seems to get more possible flakes out
than wiping. It's also a pretty good way to straighten paper that is
cut from a roll.

> With PR on the other hand I find myself discarding 15 to 20% of 
> prints _after_ the same procedure.  I have quite a few prints with 
> large areas of black and all it takes is one little flake to ruin 
> it.  It's maddening.

I have never used PR before but it's dmax is very tempting. I was
hoping to find something cheaper which can yield the same dmax. Try
this roll method to see if you can reduce flaking with PR.

--nick

[Digital BW] Re: Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-08-02 by nick_h_nugent

Hi Richard,

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Richard Sintchak
<rich815@g...> wrote:
> nick, what are "release papers"?

They are silicon impregnated papers used for drymounting papers.
They're made so melted adhesive can't stick to them. Being so smooth
they are extremely unlikely to damage the fragile coating of such
papers as PR. You can get some for really cheap on Ebay. Search for
the store artgrafix on Ebay. Get the paper in roll form.

--nick

Re: Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-08-02 by Clayton Jones

Hello Nick,

>I deviced another method which I think has reduced the chance of
>flaking quite a bit for me. I'd put the paper between two sheets of
>release papers and roll it one way and then another using a tube of
>about 2 inches in diameter. 

Thanks for the tip.  Someone else said that brushing is more effective
than a soft cloth wipe.  

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-08-02 by James Irelan

>
>
> Thanks for the tip.  Someone else said that brushing is more effective
> than a soft cloth wipe. 
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>

I use a soft drafting brush, and I brush with it pretty thoroughly.  
Maybe it helps; I don't know, because it does not eliminate the 
problem.  I've said this before, but I have never seen a physical 
flake, so I've wondered if the problem isn't more of a surface tension 
mismatch between ink and paper such that the ink pulls apart from 
itself, like a bubble breaking, leaving a white spot of paper.  I say 
this because I have left the print exactly where it was after it 
printed, and examined it thoroughly immediately after it printed.  No 
spots.  An hour or two later- a spot.  No handling of the print 
whatsoever, no evidence of a flake or anything loose.

This problem was what caused me to stop using my alltime favorite 
paper, Riviera (Torchon).  Best reds, ever.  But worst spots, too.

James


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-08-03 by Clayton Jones

James,

>I've wondered if the problem isn't more of a surface tension 
>mismatch between ink and paper such that the ink pulls apart 
>from itself, like a bubble breaking, leaving a white spot of 
>paper.  

Yes, I've wondered that too, maybe the ink shrinking as it dries.

>This problem was what caused me to stop using my alltime favorite 
>paper, Riviera (Torchon).  Best reds, ever.  But worst spots, too.

I remember a few years ago Torchon seemed more popular, at least it
was mentioned more often, and I remember there were flaking
complaints.

Wouldn't it be sad if the very ingredient that produces the good dmax
also causes the flaking...

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Condor BW and other Hawk Mountain Papers

2004-08-03 by J Vee

I have followed this thread with some interest, if from a slightly different
perspective.  Heads on my my printer are thermal and I just do not see this
problem with the same papers.  Not quite sure what this means, but wonder if
this is experience of others using non Epson printers.  J Vee

On 8/2/04 9:52 PM, "Clayton Jones" <cj@...> wrote:

> James,
> 
>> >I've wondered if the problem isn't more of a surface tension
>> >mismatch between ink and paper such that the ink pulls apart
>> >from itself, like a bubble breaking, leaving a white spot of 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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