Digital BW, The Print

Well, a few days ago, I received a sample pack of Lyson's 
Darkroom Glossy and Darkroom Matte papers.  I'll have more to 
say in a little while, but here's an initial impression:

Darkroom Matte: frankly, I wasn't expecting much from this paper 
(especially since I only requested the Glossy), but I gave it a try 
this morning both for myself and for a visiting photographer pal 
who is probably buying my second Epson 1160  Using a 
not-too-well-adjusted file (yeah, I was in a hurry), the results 
were a good deal better than I'd expected - the paper has an 
ever-so-faint textured sheen (I liked it, which is saying something 
since I tend to avoid textured papers like the plague).  I need to 
do more testing with it, but I think this may be my new standard 
for matte printing.

Darkroom Glossy:  Using the same file, I made a few test prints 
a few days back.  This stuff takes a while to dry - a good day and 
a half before it's dry to the touch, and I'd say it needs at least a 
few days more if you're planning to mount and/or glass-frame it.  
Otherwise, all I have to say is: The Hype Is Real.   I'm truly 
stunned by the look - I can finally look at a print and not instantly 
speculate about its origin.  It's simply A Good Print.  The weight 
of the paper is substantial - It just makes it through the 1160 on 
its own (but I give it a gentle nudge, anyway, to be safe).  The 
surface finish is close to that soft-gloss finish of a good silver 
paper.  Bronzing on my examples is close to nonexistent - very 
close (if I look really close, really hard...you know, like 
grain-sniffing, I might find the slightest trace, and only in a few 
spots). Tone is neutral-warm in daylight, a bit warmer under 
incandescent.

This is with an Epson 1160 with Lyson Quad Black Neutral carts, 
using a Luminos-sourced profile, fed by a Mac G4/OS 9.2.2.

I'm hoping this stuff comes in 13x19" as well as the usual other 
sizes (I just shot an e-mail back to Lyson USA).  It's still early in 
the game, so to speak, but I think I've found my "standard" setup 
at last.

- Barrett

>
>
> I'm hoping this stuff comes in 13x19" as well as the usual other
> sizes (I just shot an e-mail back to Lyson USA).  It's still early in
> the game, so to speak, but I think I've found my "standard" setup
> at last.
>
> - Barrett
>

American sizes will be available; they're just not yet.  Helix camera 
in Chicago will probably be the first choice supplier.  This paper with 
Fotonics kicks the whole thing up a notch.

James


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barrett and anyone else,

I take it this new Lyson gloss paper that resembles fiber paper is 
not compatable with Ultra-Chrome or other pigment inksets?
I used the Lyson Quad inkset for a year in my Ep. 7000 and 
1270's and they looked fine in daylight or flourecent but RED as 
hell under tungsten ( not slightly warm to me but red as hell). I 
then used the Lyson Small Gamut inks for 2 more years and to 
some degree especially with neutral prints there is still 
metamerism under tungsten. Since most gallery illumination is 
tungsten I was always fighting this issue and NEVER want to do 
so again.

Does anyone have any suggestions in regard to printing on this 
paper with any ink other than Lyson's? I've heard that even their 
new improved multi-tone inkset for 7 color printers also has 
significant metamerism.

I understand that the UT pigments can be used on glossy media 
but no one I've read on this site or others really thinks it is a good 
idea. To me this could be a delimma. Finally a paper that 
resembles the brilliance of a real fiber air dried glossy surface 
but no suitable inkset to use with it. Am I wrong?

John






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Barrett 
Benton" <bwbenton@b...> wrote:
> Well, a few days ago, I received a sample pack of Lyson's 
> Darkroom Glossy and Darkroom Matte papers.  I'll have more 
to 
> say in a little while, but here's an initial impression:
> 
> Darkroom Matte: frankly, I wasn't expecting much from this 
paper 
> (especially since I only requested the Glossy), but I gave it a try 
> this morning both for myself and for a visiting photographer pal 
> who is probably buying my second Epson 1160  Using a 
> not-too-well-adjusted file (yeah, I was in a hurry), the results 
> were a good deal better than I'd expected - the paper has an 
> ever-so-faint textured sheen (I liked it, which is saying 
something 
> since I tend to avoid textured papers like the plague).  I need to 
> do more testing with it, but I think this may be my new standard 
> for matte printing.
> 
> Darkroom Glossy:  Using the same file, I made a few test 
prints 
> a few days back.  This stuff takes a while to dry - a good day 
and 
> a half before it's dry to the touch, and I'd say it needs at least a 
> few days more if you're planning to mount and/or glass-frame 
it.  
> Otherwise, all I have to say is: The Hype Is Real.   I'm truly 
> stunned by the look - I can finally look at a print and not 
instantly 
> speculate about its origin.  It's simply A Good Print.  The weight 
> of the paper is substantial - It just makes it through the 1160 
on 
> its own (but I give it a gentle nudge, anyway, to be safe).  The 
> surface finish is close to that soft-gloss finish of a good silver 
> paper.  Bronzing on my examples is close to nonexistent - very 
> close (if I look really close, really hard...you know, like 
> grain-sniffing, I might find the slightest trace, and only in a few 
> spots). Tone is neutral-warm in daylight, a bit warmer under 
> incandescent.
> 
> This is with an Epson 1160 with Lyson Quad Black Neutral 
carts, 
> using a Luminos-sourced profile, fed by a Mac G4/OS 9.2.2.
> 
> I'm hoping this stuff comes in 13x19" as well as the usual 
other 
> sizes (I just shot an e-mail back to Lyson USA).  It's still early in 
> the game, so to speak, but I think I've found my "standard" 
setup 

> at last.
> 
> - Barrett

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john 
dean" <deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
> Barrett and anyone else,
> 
> I take it this new Lyson gloss paper that resembles fiber paper 
> is not compatable with Ultra-Chrome or other pigment 
> inksets?

Since the paper is of the "swellable" variety, I suppose it *might* 
work with pigs - I'm thinking here of my experience using Epson 
Semi-Gloss in both my 1160 and 2200 - but don't quote me on 
that!

> I used the Lyson Quad inkset for a year in my Ep. 7000 and 
> 1270's and they looked fine in daylight or flourecent but RED 
> as hell under tungsten ( not slightly warm to me but red as
> hell). I  then used the Lyson Small Gamut inks for 2 more years 
> and to some degree especially with neutral prints there is still 
> metamerism under tungsten. Since most gallery illumination
> is tungsten I was always fighting this issue and NEVER want 
> to do so again.

Depending on the paper I've used, I've seen Quad Black Neutral 
get a bit warm under incandescent lighting (HPR particularly, 
which to my eye starts off looking warm even under natural light), 
but just a bit.

> Does anyone have any suggestions in regard to printing on 
> this paper with any ink other than Lyson's? I've heard that even 
> their new improved multi-tone inkset for 7 color printers also
> has significant metamerism.

I don't know anything about their multi-tone inkset yet.  I *was* 
thinking about trying whatever the latest MIS inkset is to use in 
my spare 1160 as an experiement, but I have someone 
interested in buying it.  (Anybody have or know of a cheap-but- 
working 3000 for sale?:-)


> I understand that the UT pigments can be used on glossy 
> media but no one I've read on this site or others really thinks it 
> is a good idea. To me this could be a delimma. Finally a paper 
> that resembles the brilliance of a real fiber air dried glossy
> surface but no suitable inkset to use with it. Am I wrong?

Can't say for sure - I'll try a sheet or two in the 2200 in a few
days if I'm brave enough. :-)

- Barrett

On Saturday, August 7, 2004, at 07:14 PM, john dean wrote:

> Barrett and anyone else,
>
> I take it this new Lyson gloss paper that resembles fiber paper is
> not compatable with Ultra-Chrome or other pigment inksets?
>

Correct.  It is intended for dyes.

James


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Barrett and anyone else,
> >
> > I take it this new Lyson gloss paper that resembles fiber paper is
> > not compatable with Ultra-Chrome or other pigment inksets?
> >
>
> Correct.  It is intended for dyes.
>

yep, i tried a couple of sample sheets - lovely paper (very "photographic"
feel), but Ultrachrome inks and MIS pigs just never dried

>
> >
>
> yep, i tried a couple of sample sheets - lovely paper (very 
> "photographic"
> feel), but Ultrachrome inks and MIS pigs just never dried
>
>

There's incompatibility plus inferior color gamut.  It was like the 
emporer's new clothes:  I kept wanting my new UCs to look amazing, when 
in fact  3-year old Generations in an 1160 of the same vintage  looked 
better than UCs in a new 7600.  The only superiority of the 7600 with 
UCs was that it would print bigger, and is supported by RIPs, and yes, 
does have more subtle color transitions.  But not better gamut.  This 
became painfully obvious when I printed some images for a client of the 
famous chimney pots in Spain with their brightly colored tiles.  The 
reds just flat sucked out loud.  I spent many many unbillable hours 
attempting to adjust profiling to get them right, gave up, and wound up 
going to my old 1160 with Fotonics, to get a decent red.  Now I have 
Fotonics in my 7600, and:  red corvette, anyone?  That same 1160 with 
Fotonics gave me what I thought were great prints on Entrada.  With the 
new Darkroom gloss, it's like the veil comes off, and doesn't look like 
those horrible plastic glossy inkjet papers.

James



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> That same 1160 with 
> Fotonics gave me what I thought were great prints on Entrada.  With the 
> new Darkroom gloss, it's like the veil comes off, and doesn't look like 
> those horrible plastic glossy inkjet papers.
> James

James,

How does the New Gloss compare to Ilford's Classic Gloss? I have Fotonics loaded in an 
Epson 1200.

Thanks,

John V.

>  the
> > new Darkroom gloss, it's like the veil comes off, and doesn't look 
> like
> > those horrible plastic glossy inkjet papers.
> > James
>
> James,
>
> How does the New Gloss compare to Ilford's Classic Gloss? I have 
> Fotonics loaded in an
> Epson 1200.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John V.

John,

Don't know that I've tried that one specifically, but didn't like any 
of the Ilford papers I did try.

James

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks!

> > James,
> >
> > How does the New Gloss compare to Ilford's Classic Gloss? I have 
> > Fotonics loaded in an
> > Epson 1200.
> Don't know that I've tried that one specifically, but didn't like any 
> James

John,

if you already have Fotonics - you gotta try the Darkroom Gloss.
See the archivalcolor list for more.

The Darkroom Gloss is the only paper currently available that comes
the closest to a darkroom fiber paper glossy-air-dried. None of
the Ilfords do. It's in a class by itself (and beats the Oriental in that
respect).

As soon as Lyson releases  proper monochrome dyes to go
with it, that paper will rule the digital dmax universe. No bronzing and
the deepest black ever. 

Potential downside: dyes may not be as permanent
as pigments and profiles should be done for a given illuminant
to avoid metamerism. 

Also, keep in mind that prints with Lyson dyes on it are water soluble.
I mean you can almost completely wipe off the image if they get
the slightest bit wet. For permanence they should be coated after
printing.

Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" 
<jvlist@c...> wrote:

....

> How does the New Gloss compare to Ilford's Classic Gloss? I have Fotonics 
loaded in an 

> Epson 1200.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John V.

> John,
> if you already have Fotonics - you gotta try the Darkroom Gloss.
> See the archivalcolor list for more.
> Antonis

Geez...I just had custom profiles made for Ilford Classic Glossy and Classic Pearl by 
Chromix.com

Oh well...might need to spend more bucks on profiles!

InkJetArt is now selling the Darkroom Range Gloss paper.  I'd love to try this paper in 
my 2200, but what inkset might give decent B&W prints without metamerism?  I 
thought about trying to profile it with the Fotonics and a RIP, using only the K, LK, LC, 
and LM inks (as I've already done with the UC inks and matte papers) to get a neutral 
tone but I'm concerned about metamerism with the Lyson dyes.  Alternatives might 
be some combination of the Quad blacks and Small gamut inks.  Any other 
suggestions or is this a hopeless case of a great paper but no suitable inkset to use it 
with?

Carl 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:

> John,
> 
> if you already have Fotonics - you gotta try the Darkroom Gloss.
> See the archivalcolor list for more.
> 
> The Darkroom Gloss is the only paper currently available that comes
> the closest to a darkroom fiber paper glossy-air-dried. None of
> the Ilfords do. It's in a class by itself (and beats the Oriental in that
> respect).
> 
> As soon as Lyson releases  proper monochrome dyes to go
> with it, that paper will rule the digital dmax universe. No bronzing and
> the deepest black ever. 
> 
> Potential downside: dyes may not be as permanent
> as pigments and profiles should be done for a given illuminant
> to avoid metamerism. 
> 
> Also, keep in mind that prints with Lyson dyes on it are water soluble.
> I mean you can almost completely wipe off the image if they get
> the slightest bit wet. For permanence they should be coated after
> printing.
> 
> Antonis

Carl,

that's quite the dilemma. If you have the small gamuts, and don't mind 
profiling them, that's your best shot. On a 6 ink printer you can throw 
in some quads too. If you profile right and check the spectral makeup
of your scale with a spectro, you can just about eliminate metamerism.

If you already have the Fotonics....   why not give it a try. You may profile
for daylight (or whatever light you choose) and stick with it. Remember,
the Fotonics are more fugitive than the Lysonics. And it will be much
harder to profile and fight metamerism with this combo.

Plan B is the UC or UT with their respective Photo K.
Printing BO from OPM, I got 2.04 with MIS UT PK from an 1160
and 1.80 using the 2200 / UC / PK
Definitely not what Lyson recommends, of course.

I haven't profiled it with the pigment inks, so haven't seen what grays do 
(and any overload  issues). There is a bit of bronzing, which is
absent with dyes.
And the image is not waterproof, it  can be wiped clean if it gets wet !
Even cleaner than it does with dyes. Maybe a light spray can fix it
and fight bronzing at the same time....?  This may undo the nice
surface finish though.

Antonis





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Schofield" 
<scho@m...> wrote:
> InkJetArt is now selling the Darkroom Range Gloss paper.  I'd love to try this 
paper in 
> my 2200, but what inkset might give decent B&W prints without 
metamerism?  I 
> thought about trying to profile it with the Fotonics and a RIP, using only the 
K, LK, LC, 
> and LM inks (as I've already done with the UC inks and matte papers) to get 
a neutral 
> tone but I'm concerned about metamerism with the Lyson dyes.  Alternatives 
might 
> be some combination of the Quad blacks and Small gamut inks.  Any other 
> suggestions or is this a hopeless case of a great paper but no suitable 
inkset to use it 

> with?
> 
> Carl 
>

You know Carl I'm facing the same issue. I would love to try this Lyson gloss paper but like 
you mentioned, their is no really suitable inkset yet. I corresponded with the 
president of Lyson for a few weeks about their metamerism issues and lack of published 
permanency tests, and he suggested that their new multi-hue 7 color inkset was what they 
were promoting for this paper. I have heard reports on this site that these inks have as 
much color shift under tungsten as the other sets. Too bad. He acknowledged the issues 
with Small Gamut ( which I have used every week since their beta product 3 years ago ) . 
He blamed it on the limits of Epson printers. Oh well.... He was a very nice guy and they 
are trying hard, but I just don't think they can solve this metamerism problem. It has 
grated on my nerves for 3  years whenever I print a show that will end up lit with quartz 
lights in a gallery. I have found that the Small Gamut inks are extremely versitle for warm 
tone variations and I had a great time working with them on various rag media. However, 
with any color inkset ( when it comes down to it this IS a color inkset ) there is always 
some problem with purely neutral monochromes under varried lighting. Reluctanty I'm 
giving up my multi-tone world for the Piezzotone consistency. This month I am 
abondoning the Lyson inkset in my larger printers for the Cone pigment sets. I beleve they 
have the least metamerism of any inks and greater permanence than any of these dyes 
Lyson had produced. They also have better d-max. I may never work with glossy media 
again. I'm not sure with Photoshop it's necessary anymore. It could be just something we 
wanted to hang onto too long.






 InkJetArt is now selling the Darkroom Range Gloss paper.  I'd love to try this paper in 

> my 2200, but what inkset might give decent B&W prints without metamerism?  I 
> thought about trying to profile it with the Fotonics and a RIP, using only the K, LK, LC, 
> and LM inks (as I've already done with the UC inks and matte papers) to get a neutral 
> tone but I'm concerned about metamerism with the Lyson dyes.  Alternatives might 
> be some combination of the Quad blacks and Small gamut inks.  Any other 
> suggestions or is this a hopeless case of a great paper but no suitable inkset to use it 
> with?
> 
> Carl 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis" 
> <antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> > John,
> > 
> > if you already have Fotonics - you gotta try the Darkroom Gloss.
> > See the archivalcolor list for more.
> > 
> > The Darkroom Gloss is the only paper currently available that comes
> > the closest to a darkroom fiber paper glossy-air-dried. None of
> > the Ilfords do. It's in a class by itself (and beats the Oriental in that
> > respect).
> > 
> > As soon as Lyson releases  proper monochrome dyes to go
> > with it, that paper will rule the digital dmax universe. No bronzing and
> > the deepest black ever. 
> > 
> > Potential downside: dyes may not be as permanent
> > as pigments and profiles should be done for a given illuminant
> > to avoid metamerism. 
> > 
> > Also, keep in mind that prints with Lyson dyes on it are water soluble.
> > I mean you can almost completely wipe off the image if they get
> > the slightest bit wet. For permanence they should be coated after
> > printing.
> > 
> > Antonis

John,

I have reached the same  conclusions as you for pretty much
 the same reasons. I am a big fan of Piezotones despite the fact 
that they don't offer toners and the like.

However, I have been compiling dmax data recently, comparing
how the Black of different inksets performs on various papers.
With some papers, I found the dmax between Museum Black and
UC MK to be the same. For some, however, the MK has come
out surprisingly ahead. I wasn't surprised to see that with some
Epson papers, but there were others too. I am starting to think
whether it wouldn't be a useful option to use the Piezotones
with UC Matte Black.....

i haven't gotten to the bottom of this yet. I am slowly filling out
a spreadsheet which I hope to make public here on the list
in the near future for comments and suggestions. 

Antonis





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@y...> wrote:
......

Reluctanty I'm 
> giving up my multi-tone world for the Piezzotone consistency. This month I 
am 
> abondoning the Lyson inkset in my larger printers for the Cone pigment 
sets. I beleve they 
> have the least metamerism of any inks and greater permanence than any of 
these dyes 
> Lyson had produced. They also have better d-max.

Thanks for the suggestions Antonis.  I'll see what I can do with this 
paper and the UC inks first.  The Oriental FB paper is almost there 
with the UC pigs - negligible bronzing and no metamerism, but the 
mirror gloss finish kills it for me.  I may try some coatings with the 
latter to see if I can reduce the gloss.

Carl

On Thursday, August 26, 2004, at 07:44  PM, Antonis wrote:

> Carl,
>
> that's quite the dilemma. If you have the small gamuts, and don't mind
> profiling them, that's your best shot. On a 6 ink printer you can throw
> in some quads too. If you profile right and check the spectral makeup
> of your scale with a spectro, you can just about eliminate metamerism.
>
> If you already have the Fotonics....   why not give it a try. You may 
> profile
> for daylight (or whatever light you choose) and stick with it. 
> Remember,
> the Fotonics are more fugitive than the Lysonics. And it will be much
> harder to profile and fight metamerism with this combo.
>
> Plan B is the UC or UT with their respective Photo K.
> Printing BO from OPM, I got 2.04 with MIS UT PK from an 1160
> and 1.80 using the 2200 / UC / PK
> Definitely not what Lyson recommends, of course.
>
> I haven't profiled it with the pigment inks, so haven't seen what 
> grays do
> (and any overload  issues). There is a bit of bronzing, which is
> absent with dyes.
> And the image is not waterproof, it  can be wiped clean if it gets wet 
> !
> Even cleaner than it does with dyes. Maybe a light spray can fix it
> and fight bronzing at the same time....?  This may undo the nice
> surface finish though.
>
> Antonis
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Schofield"
> <scho@m...> wrote:
>> InkJetArt is now selling the Darkroom Range Gloss paper.  I'd love to 
>> try this
> paper in
>> my 2200, but what inkset might give decent B&W prints without
> metamerism?  I
>> thought about trying to profile it with the Fotonics and a RIP, using 
>> only the
> K, LK, LC,
>> and LM inks (as I've already done with the UC inks and matte papers) 
>> to get
> a neutral
>> tone but I'm concerned about metamerism with the Lyson dyes.  
>> Alternatives
> might
>> be some combination of the Quad blacks and Small gamut inks.  Any 
>> other
>> suggestions or is this a hopeless case of a great paper but no 
>> suitable
> inkset to use it
>> with?
>>
>> Carl
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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I don¹t know if anyone is interested in this combination, but I have just
finished making a profile and the results are quite spectacular.  Prints
from monochrome CYMK file using ICC workflow are a beautiful neutral black
and seem indistinguishable to me from darkroom prints, even with magnifying
glass.  4 K prints are as you would expect.  Color prints are, of course,
fantastic.  J Vee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yup....  that's what killed it for me. And by the time you coat it, you've
created a whole other animal and moved further away from the 
air-dried gloss fiber look. Which is why we call it the holy grail....

Antonis

PS. And btw the Matte version has nothing to do with photographic 
surfaces the way the Gloss does. It's all subjective, of course, but
I saw very little use for it.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield <scho@m...> 
wrote:
.....
The Oriental FB paper is almost there 

> with the UC pigs - negligible bronzing and no metamerism, but the 
> mirror gloss finish kills it for me.  I may try some coatings with the 
> latter to see if I can reduce the gloss.

Could you please elaborate a bit on the inkset?
Are these dyes? Who sells them? Any fade tests available?....


Thanks


Antonis


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, J Vee <j.vee@g...> wro=
te:
> I don¹t know if anyone is interested in this combination, but I have just=

> finished making a profile and the results are quite spectacular.  Prints
> from monochrome CYMK file using ICC workflow are a beautiful neutral blac=
k
> and seem indistinguishable to me from darkroom prints, even with magnifyi=
ng

> glass.  4 K prints are as you would expect.  Color prints are, of course,=

> fantastic.  J Vee
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

These inksets are specific to the ColorSpan printers, as far as I am able to
determine.  ColorSpan seems to have positioned the Displaymaker Esprit (I
use) with 11 color inkset as their fine arts printer.   It is an amazing
printer, prints on almost anything up to 1/8² thick.   Inks are 4K + 7Color
and the print heads are H-P¹s microthermal heads.  I am not sure who makes
their inks.  Anybody know?  (?Ilford) The Endurachromes are dye based
(company sells pigment inks also) and longevity tests range from 60 or 70
years on some canvas substrates down to 10 or 15 years on the company¹s
glossy paper.  I am hoping the tests re Lyson dye inks and Lyson prof glossy
might hopefully apply re longevity with the above combination.  I should
add, though, that this is a printer costing well into the 5 figure range and
that its true potential only becomes apparent with special software
extensions ( +  X-Rite DPT 41)  allowing individual profile generation and a
true ICC workflow.  Glad to tell you much more off list, if interested.
Examples output www.jvee.com.

On 8/27/04 1:35 PM, "Antonis" <antonisphoto@...> wrote:

> Could you please elaborate a bit on the inkset?
> Are these dyes? Who sells them? Any fade tests available?....
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Antonis
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, J Vee <j.vee@g...> wro=
> te:
>> > I don¹t know if anyone is interested in this combination, but I have just=
> 
>> > finished making a profile and the results are quite spectacular.  Prints



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Friday, August 27, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Antonis wrote:

> Could you please elaborate a bit on the inkset?
> Are these dyes? Who sells them? Any fade tests available?....
>

Use Lyson's own Fotonics.

James


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Could, but a new head comes tubed to each 500 cc ink and is always changed
at the same time.   There is a free exchange if the head can¹t autoset to
standards before ink out, and this happens occasionally, so it is really not
practical to use other ink sets even if they would work OK with thermal
heads (vs piezo).  One would end up having to buy separate heads from HP.
I don¹t know if Lyson has ink sets of 4K + 7Color meant to all print
together either.  J Vee

On 8/27/04 6:11 PM, "James Irelan" <james@...m> wrote:

> 
> On Friday, August 27, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Antonis wrote:
> 
>> > Could you please elaborate a bit on the inkset?
>> > Are these dyes? Who sells them? Any fade tests available?....
>> >
> 
> Use Lyson's own Fotonics.
> 
> James
> 



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