Digital BW, The Print

Hmmm...

So, I f'd up on not knowing about the syringe caps but my troubles 
continue.

Four of the nine needles I received were either defective when I 
received them or broke when I attached them to the syringe for 
testing with water.

When broken, the plastic collar either cracks or has a hole in it -- 
it is impossible to draw water (or ink) through one of these needles 
and/or water (or heaven forbid, ink) shoots out at a 90 degree angle 
to the needle tip when discharging the syringe.

So, my poor out of the box experience continues.

Are these normal teething pains for a first-time cert refiller? Or 
did I have some bad luck in the tools I received on my first order?

Again, any input would be appreciated.

No they are not normal teething problems.  The needles simply gently twist
on to the bottom of the syringe (once the protected cap has been removed by
twisting it the other way). Same with the bottom fill adaptor. Honestly it
could not be simpler.  These are stock standard (medical) syringes and
needles.  

> From: zdirk99 <ausdlk@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:21:33 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 2200 (more from
> the original poster)
> 
> Hmmm...
> 
> So, I f'd up on not knowing about the syringe caps but my troubles
> continue.
> 
> Four of the nine needles I received were either defective when I
> received them or broke when I attached them to the syringe for
> testing with water.
> 
> When broken, the plastic collar either cracks or has a hole in it --
> it is impossible to draw water (or ink) through one of these needles
> and/or water (or heaven forbid, ink) shoots out at a 90 degree angle
> to the needle tip when discharging the syringe.
> 
> So, my poor out of the box experience continues.
> 
> Are these normal teething pains for a first-time cert refiller? Or
> did I have some bad luck in the tools I received on my first order?
> 
> Again, any input would be appreciated.
>

> No they are not normal teething problems.  The needles simply 
> gently twist on to the bottom of the syringe (once the protected 
> cap has been removed by twisting it the other way). Same with the 
> bottom fill adaptor. Honestly it could not be simpler.  These are 
> stock standard (medical) syringes and needles.  

I agree that this is simple in concept. That's why I'm not a happy 
camper. 

Only a first time user would not have known that the syringes where 
capped. I take responsibility for that snafu.

But once removing this cap, I attached the needles just as you suggest.
On four of the nine I had the problem mentioned. The other five are 
okay. 

On at least two of the tests with what turned out to be bad needles, I 
heard a "snap" as if the needle collar broke as it was being attached 
to the syringe. Okay, maybe this would happen if someone was using a 
pair of plyers to screw the needle on but I don't expect something 
like this to happen when just inserting the needle and hand 
tightening. The "snap" occurred at the beginning not the end so I'm 
confident that it is not a case of too much force being applied.

Then is it just bad luck?

>
>So, my poor out of the box experience continues.
>
>Are these normal teething pains for a first-time cert
refiller? Or 
>did I have some bad luck in the tools I received on my first
order?
>
>Again, any input would be appreciated.
>

I think you may have damaged the needles when putting them on
over the cap. If you have any good ones left they can be
reused by rinsing them in water. You may be able to tape over
the fill holes untill you get plugs from MIS. That should
prevent ink splashing while the printer is running.

Regards, Walt

http://www.kauaiphotos.biz

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:42:55 -0000
>From: "zdirk99" <ausdlk@...>  
>Subject: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson
2200 (more from the original poster)  
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>
>> No they are not normal teething problems.  The needles simply 
>> gently twist on to the bottom of the syringe (once the
protected 
>> cap has been removed by twisting it the other way). Same
with the 
>> bottom fill adaptor. Honestly it could not be simpler. 
These are 
>> stock standard (medical) syringes and needles.  
>
>I agree that this is simple in concept. That's why I'm not a
happy 
>camper. 
>
>Only a first time user would not have known that the syringes
where 
>capped. I take responsibility for that snafu.
>
>But once removing this cap, I attached the needles just as
you suggest.
>On four of the nine I had the problem mentioned. The other
five are 
>okay. 
>
>On at least two of the tests with what turned out to be bad
needles, I 
>heard a "snap" as if the needle collar broke as it was being
attached 
>to the syringe. Okay, maybe this would happen if someone was
using a 
>pair of plyers to screw the needle on but I don't expect
something 
>like this to happen when just inserting the needle and hand 
>tightening. The "snap" occurred at the beginning not the end
so I'm 
>confident that it is not a case of too much force being applied.
>
>Then is it just bad luck?

Nope, it's a case of not reading the instructions. It doesen't
take much force to damage plastic. I'd call the order desk at
MIS if you can't get tech support. They always have been very
helpful to me.

Regards, Walt

http://www.kauaiphotos.biz

Sounds like it.  I must admit taking the cap off should have been obvious.
;-)  The breakage of the collars seems a bit odd unless you over tightened
them.  They do not need to be tightened much at all - very gently is enough.
At any rate they don't cost much and sounds like you have a few spares. Try
not to break the bottom fill adaptor. (I'm not sure why you got the big
syringes - 10ml syringes are ok.)  Check the packaging to see if you can
find the rubber plugs for the cartridges (a small re-sealable plastic bag).
MIS doesn't normally forget them.  In the interim some tape over the holes
will do.  

BTW when you rinse the syringes it's ok to pull the plunger entirely out of
the cylinder so that things dry a lot faster.

Good luck. 

> From: zdirk99 <ausdlk@...>

> 
>> No they are not normal teething problems.  The needles simply
>> gently twist on to the bottom of the syringe (once the protected
>> cap has been removed by twisting it the other way). Same with the
>> bottom fill adaptor. Honestly it could not be simpler.  These are
>> stock standard (medical) syringes and needles.
> 
> I agree that this is simple in concept. That's why I'm not a happy
> camper. 
> 
> Only a first time user would not have known that the syringes where
> capped. I take responsibility for that snafu.
> 
> But once removing this cap, I attached the needles just as you suggest.
> On four of the nine I had the problem mentioned. The other five are
> okay. 
> 
> On at least two of the tests with what turned out to be bad needles, I
> heard a "snap" as if the needle collar broke as it was being attached
> to the syringe. Okay, maybe this would happen if someone was using a
> pair of plyers to screw the needle on but I don't expect something
> like this to happen when just inserting the needle and hand
> tightening. The "snap" occurred at the beginning not the end so I'm
> confident that it is not a case of too much force being applied.
> 
> Then is it just bad luck?

> Sounds like it.  I must admit taking the cap off should have been 
> obvious. ;-)  The breakage of the collars seems a bit odd unless 
> you over tightened them.  They do not need to be tightened much at 
> all - very gently is enough. At any rate they don't cost much and 
> sounds like you have a few spares. Try not to break the bottom 
> fill adaptor. (I'm not sure why you got the big syringes - 10ml 
> syringes are ok.)  Check the packaging to see if you can find the 
> rubber plugs for the cartridges (a small re-sealable plastic bag).
> MIS doesn't normally forget them.  In the interim some tape over 
> the holes will do.  
> 
> BTW when you rinse the syringes it's ok to pull the plunger 
> entirely out of the cylinder so that things dry a lot faster.
> 
> Good luck. 

I hindsight I guess taking the caps off should have been obvious but 
the needle and bottom fill adapters both fit nicely over the end of 
the cap and it looked like there was an opening there so it 
seemed "obvious" to me initially that that was what was done.

I got the 30mm syringes because that's that MIS sold me. They knew 
what I was doing (refilling 2200 carts obviously) and that's what 
they said to get. I didn't know any better. I agree that these are 
too big and clumsy. My ordering experiences with MIS have not been 
flawless -- it seems that at least in my case that one of their 
hands didn't know what the other one was doing.

No rubber plugs to be found. I don't have the original package any 
more so it possible that they were overlooked and discarded but I 
see no mention of them on the otherwise comprehensive invoice.

So, finally have been able to refill two Eboni cartridges that I had 
bought previously (that have the little caps).

I do have another question.

After using the bottom fill adapter to draw out about 1ml of ink, I 
went to top off the cartridge with the ink that was withdrawn. One 
of the two refilled carts clearly has about 3/8 of inch of emptiness 
at the top so I think it is safe to assume that it is not full.

Strangely when attempting to top off this cart (using an inserted 
needle), it simply would not accept any ink -- it just bubbled up 
from the hole. (But I was able to top off the second cartridge.) 

I can't figure that one out though. Physics hints at some kind of 
pressure thing but I'm baffled why I cannot top off this cartridge.

Am I nuts? Is this how these things are designed -- that is, once 
the bottom fill adapter is used to move some of the ink around 
inside the cartridge, is there some reason why more ink cannot be 
added?

Man, I feel like I'm back in the first grade...

> Strangely when attempting to top off this cart (using an inserted 
> needle), it simply would not accept any ink -- it just bubbled up 
> from the hole. (But I was able to top off the second cartridge.) 
> 
> I can't figure that one out though. Physics hints at some kind of 
> pressure thing but I'm baffled why I cannot top off this cartridge.
> 
> Am I nuts? Is this how these things are designed -- that is, once 
> the bottom fill adapter is used to move some of the ink around 
> inside the cartridge, is there some reason why more ink cannot be 
> added?
> 
> Man, I feel like I'm back in the first grade...
Try tilting the cartridge a little so that the ink fills more of the
space at the other end from the fill hole.  Make sure the needle is
far enough in (it can be under the ink surface, for example).

I think it is fair to say that the lure-lock needle fitting is not
very robust.  On the other hand I have two needles, one to use for
every ink and one as a spare.  They are the simplest part of the kit
to clean (inside and out).  Your remaining needles are plenty. 
The plugs are not shown separately on the invoice (they are not
charged separately) - the little bag is easy to lose.  If you take
care and look critically at what you are doing it should all go fine.
(On the other hand I had problems too, with leaks.)

Ken


>

>I think you may have damaged the needles when putting them on
>over the cap. If you have any good ones left they can be
>reused by rinsing them in water. You may be able to tape over
>the fill holes untill you get plugs from MIS. That should
>prevent ink splashing while the printer is running.

I'd agree with you if I had attempted to fit *all* of the needles 
(incorrectly) over the syringe cap. I did this with one, maybe two 
of the needles -- but definitely not with all four of them that are 
broken.

On the filler cap issue, I was told my MIS in an e-mail from support 
that THERE ARE NO CAPS for these 2200 cartridges, that caps are only 
necessary when used with CFS systems...

Funny but I have two pre-filled cartridges (identical to my new, 
empty ones) that DO have caps.

All responses here on the forum talk about caps, yet a 
representative of the vendor say caps aren't used...

Is this another case in my short dealings with MIS where one hand 
doesn't know about the other?

Comments?

>Try tilting the cartridge a little so that the ink fills more of the
>space at the other end from the fill hole. Make sure the needle is
>far enough in (it can be under the ink surface, for example).

Tried all that. I must say that is looked very strange -- ink bubbling 
out of the hole actually far away from the end of the needle even when 
the needle was submerged in ink (or not). Like it is some kind of air 
pressure thing that I do not understand. 

>I think it is fair to say that the lure-lock needle fitting is not
>very robust. 

That's my conclusion too.

>On the other hand I have two needles, one to use for
>every ink and one as a spare. They are the simplest part of the kit
>to clean (inside and out). Your remaining needles are plenty.

I will use your method from now on.

>The plugs are not shown separately on the invoice (they are not
>charged separately) - the little bag is easy to lose. If you take
>care and look critically at what you are doing it should all go fine.

As I posted a little while ago, an e-mail from MIS support said that 
plugs are not used on these clear 2200 cartridges... 

>(On the other hand I had problems too, with leaks.)

Oh crap, I don't need to here about that...! :)

Thanks, Ken, for your feedback.

> As I posted a little while ago, an e-mail from MIS support said that 
> plugs are not used on these clear 2200 cartridges... 
> 
> >(On the other hand I had problems too, with leaks.)
> 
> Oh crap, I don't need to here about that...! :)
Well if the hole is meant to be open there can't be a problem due to
any small leaks:)  I am not sure which cartridges you have.  Your
first post mentioned the online support for them as saying there were
plugs.  
Ken

Over on the DPReview.com forum, there has been some discussion of the 
MIS Clear Cartridges and those little rubber plugs...some folks have 
reported ink leaks at the print head and suspect the rubber plugs are 
not sealing correctly, letting air in as the ink flows out t he 
bottom. I'm thinking a litte bit of black electrical tape over these 
holes (with ot without the rubber plugs in place) should do a very 
acceptable job of making an air tight seal...and will be easy to lift 
off for refilling later.

Mike.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kenstrain2000" 
<kenstrain2000@y...> wrote:
>
> > As I posted a little while ago, an e-mail from MIS support said 
that 

> > plugs are not used on these clear 2200 cartridges... 
> > 
> > >(On the other hand I had problems too, with leaks.)
> > 
> > Oh crap, I don't need to here about that...! :)
> Well if the hole is meant to be open there can't be a problem due to
> any small leaks:)  I am not sure which cartridges you have.  Your
> first post mentioned the online support for them as saying there were
> plugs.  
> Ken
>

Why would letting air in be a problem?  Air has to come in else no ink can
come out.  I would think the plugs are simply there to prevent spillage if
the cart not placed in an upright position. Surely leaks at the print head
are an issue with the poppet valves.

> From: Mike Dobbs <mdobbs@...>

> 
> Over on the DPReview.com forum, there has been some discussion of the
> MIS Clear Cartridges and those little rubber plugs...some folks have
> reported ink leaks at the print head and suspect the rubber plugs are
> not sealing correctly, letting air in as the ink flows out t he
> bottom. I'm thinking a litte bit of black electrical tape over these
> holes (with ot without the rubber plugs in place) should do a very
> acceptable job of making an air tight seal...and will be easy to lift
> off for refilling later.
> 
> Mike.
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kenstrain2000"
> <kenstrain2000@y...> wrote:
>> 
>>> As I posted a little while ago, an e-mail from MIS support said
> that 
>>> plugs are not used on these clear 2200 cartridges...
>>> 
>>>> (On the other hand I had problems too, with leaks.)
>>> 
>>> Oh crap, I don't need to here about that...! :)
>> Well if the hole is meant to be open there can't be a problem due to
>> any small leaks:)  I am not sure which cartridges you have.  Your
>> first post mentioned the online support for them as saying there were
>> plugs.  
>> Ken

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> Why would letting air in be a problem?  Air has to come in else no 
ink can
> come out.  I would think the plugs are simply there to prevent 
spillage if
> the cart not placed in an upright position. Surely leaks at the print 
head
> are an issue with the poppet valves.
> 
> 


Or the "O" ring that seals the cart to the head.

There is a vent system built into the top of the carts...it's the 
very little hole that is initially sealed over when you get the new 
cart...you remove the covering tape before using the cart. This vent 
hole reaches the inner ink chamber via a long channel snaking it's 
way across the top side of  the cart...then to a vertical tbe going 
all the way to the bottom of the ink chamber. The vent air is 
carefully controlled...too much and the static pressure of the ink 
above the ink head will cause leakage by gravity. Too little vent air 
and the ink can't get out at all. 

So a leaking rubber plug at the fill hole will lead to leakage. I'm 
not sure if the ink leaks from the print head itself or from around 
the poppet valve seals. So far I have not seen a leak in my system 
(refilled it once so far). Next time I will place some tape over the 
fill holes as extra protection.

Mike.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> Why would letting air in be a problem?  Air has to come in else no 
ink can
> come out.  I would think the plugs are simply there to prevent 
spillage if
> the cart not placed in an upright position. Surely leaks at the 
print head
> are an issue with the poppet valves.
> 
> 
> > From: Mike Dobbs <mdobbs@a...>
> 
> > 
> > Over on the DPReview.com forum, there has been some discussion of 
the
> > MIS Clear Cartridges and those little rubber plugs...some folks 
have
> > reported ink leaks at the print head and suspect the rubber plugs 
are
> > not sealing correctly, letting air in as the ink flows out t he
> > bottom. I'm thinking a litte bit of black electrical tape over 
these
> > holes (with ot without the rubber plugs in place) should do a very
> > acceptable job of making an air tight seal...and will be easy to 
lift
> > off for refilling later.
> > 
> > Mike.
> > 
> > --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "kenstrain2000"
> > <kenstrain2000@y...> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> As I posted a little while ago, an e-mail from MIS support said
> > that 
> >>> plugs are not used on these clear 2200 cartridges...
> >>> 
> >>>> (On the other hand I had problems too, with leaks.)
> >>> 
> >>> Oh crap, I don't need to here about that...! :)
> >> Well if the hole is meant to be open there can't be a problem 
due to
> >> any small leaks:)  I am not sure which cartridges you have.  Your
> >> first post mentioned the online support for them as saying there 
were

> >> plugs.  
> >> Ken
>

It was my impression that the long snaking channel is only to reduce
evaporation of the ink.
On the clear carts, there is no sponge on the plug side, so evaporation
would happen even quicker if there were a “vent” on that side, hence the
need to get a good seal there.  The sponge side has the long channel vent.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mike Dobbs
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:40 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 2200 (still
more)

There is a vent system built into the top of the carts...it's the
very little hole that is initially sealed over when you get the new
cart...you remove the covering tape before using the cart. This vent
hole reaches the inner ink chamber via a long channel snaking it's
way across the top side of  the cart...then to a vertical tbe going
all the way to the bottom of the ink chamber. The vent air is
carefully controlled...too much and the static pressure of the ink
above the ink head will cause leakage by gravity. Too little vent air
and the ink can't get out at all.

So a leaking rubber plug at the fill hole will lead to leakage. I'm
not sure if the ink leaks from the print head itself or from around
the poppet valve seals. So far I have not seen a leak in my system
(refilled it once so far). Next time I will place some tape over the
fill holes as extra protection.

Mike.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> From: Mike Dobbs <mdobbs@...>

> The vent air is 
> carefully controlled...too much and the static pressure of the ink
> above the ink head will cause leakage by gravity. Too little vent air
> and the ink can't get out at all.

Hmmm sorry but I don't buy it.  I run another brand of (foamless) cartridges
in my 2100 with no plugs at all.

And all the channel does is to catch any spill out of that small whole.
Plenty of air can get in that little whole if ink is draining out the bottom
poppet valve.  Air coming in to the cartridge is a symptom not a cause.

> From: John Moody <moodymz3@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:06:09 -0400
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 2200 (still
> more)
> 
> It was my impression that the long snaking channel is only to reduce
> evaporation of the ink.
> On the clear carts, there is no sponge on the plug side, so evaporation
> would happen even quicker if there were a ³vent² on that side, hence the
> need to get a good seal there.  The sponge side has the long channel vent.
> 
> John

MIS disagrees:

From their refill instruction on the spongeless clear carts, step #4:
"Re-install the rubber plug. Make sure it fits tight. An air leak 
here will let ink drain into your printer. If you think the plug is 
damaged, use a new one. "

Link to page where you can also see the inner design of the cart:

<http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm>



Mike.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> And all the channel does is to catch any spill out of that small 
whole.
> Plenty of air can get in that little whole if ink is draining out 
the bottom
> poppet valve.  Air coming in to the cartridge is a symptom not a 
cause.
> 
> 
> > From: John Moody <moodymz3@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:06:09 -0400
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 
2200 (still
> > more)
> > 
> > It was my impression that the long snaking channel is only to 
reduce
> > evaporation of the ink.
> > On the clear carts, there is no sponge on the plug side, so 
evaporation
> > would happen even quicker if there were a ³vent² on that side, 
hence the
> > need to get a good seal there.  The sponge side has the long 
channel vent.

> > 
> > John
>

Good info, thanks, but that is a spongeless cart.   We are talking about the
2200 carts, which have a sponge.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mike Dobbs
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 7:20 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 2200 (still
more)

MIS disagrees:

From their refill instruction on the spongeless clear carts, step #4:
"Re-install the rubber plug. Make sure it fits tight. An air leak
here will let ink drain into your printer. If you think the plug is
damaged, use a new one. "

Link to page where you can also see the inner design of the cart:

< http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm>



Mike.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> And all the channel does is to catch any spill out of that small
whole.
> Plenty of air can get in that little whole if ink is draining out
the bottom
> poppet valve.  Air coming in to the cartridge is a symptom not a
cause.
>
>
> > From: John Moody <moodymz3@y...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:06:09 -0400
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson
2200 (still
> > more)
> >
> > It was my impression that the long snaking channel is only to
reduce
> > evaporation of the ink.
> > On the clear carts, there is no sponge on the plug side, so
evaporation
> > would happen even quicker if there were a ³vent² on that side,
hence the
> > need to get a good seal there.  The sponge side has the long
channel vent.
> >
> > John
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Try this link. Not exactly the same wording but it's the same idea
that the plug is very important.
 
http://www.inksupply.com/c82refill.cfm

colotbat.com has yet another clear cart that has a metal tube which
acts like the CIS tubing. You can consider this one a self contained
CIS without tubing. The fill hole requires no plug so refilling is
somewhat easier. Now can you guess why this color bat cart doesn't
require the plug  :?

--nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody"
<moodymz3@y...> wrote:
>
> Good info, thanks, but that is a spongeless cart.   We are talking
about the
> 2200 carts, which have a sponge.
> 
> Best regards,
> John Moody
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Dobbs
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 7:20 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 2200
(still

> more)
> 
> MIS disagrees:
> 
> From their refill instruction on the spongeless clear carts, step #4:
> "Re-install the rubber plug. Make sure it fits tight. An air leak
> here will let ink drain into your printer. If you think the plug is
> damaged, use a new one. "
> 
> Link to page where you can also see the inner design of the cart:
> 
> < http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm>
> 
> 
> 
> Mike.
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> >
> > And all the channel does is to catch any spill out of that small
> whole.
> > Plenty of air can get in that little whole if ink is draining out
> the bottom
> > poppet valve.  Air coming in to the cartridge is a symptom not a
> cause.
> >
> >
> > > From: John Moody <moodymz3@y...>
> > > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:06:09 -0400
> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson
> 2200 (still
> > > more)
> > >
> > > It was my impression that the long snaking channel is only to
> reduce
> > > evaporation of the ink.
> > > On the clear carts, there is no sponge on the plug side, so
> evaporation
> > > would happen even quicker if there were a ³vent² on that side,
> hence the
> > > need to get a good seal there.  The sponge side has the long
> channel vent.
> > >
> > > John
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Well, if it were plugged, in short time the ink would not come out at all.
I can guess that the ink usage is fast enough to not be concerned about
evaporation trough the relatively large vent hole.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Nick H.
Nugent
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 2:30 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 2200 (still
more)

Try this link. Not exactly the same wording but it's the same idea
that the plug is very important.

http://www.inksupply.com/c82refill.cfm

colotbat.com has yet another clear cart that has a metal tube which
acts like the CIS tubing. You can consider this one a self contained
CIS without tubing. The fill hole requires no plug so refilling is
somewhat easier. Now can you guess why this color bat cart doesn't
require the plug  :?

--nick




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is a clear explanation of the Epson cart design here, including detail
on how the design prevents dripping when the printer is not being used.
http://www.epson.co.jp/e/technology/sankei_7.htm
After reading this, I may give up looking for a 2200 spongeless cart that
performs like the OEM one.  I would be interested if anyone is having
trouble free operation with the spongeless ones available.

Best regards,
John Moody




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello John,

>After reading this, I may give up looking for a 2200 spongeless cart 
>that performs like the OEM one.  I would be interested if anyone is 
>having trouble free operation with the spongeless ones available.

I don't know what all the excitement about spongeless is for, but I
used regular MIS clear top fill 2200 carts for a long time without any
problems.  In those days I was doing a lot of experiments with inks
and was swapping in and out a lot and used a few carts over and over
many times.  I never had any problems with dripping or clogs or
anything else.  In all that time (and I'm guessing around two dozen
carts or so) I had one defective cart and one bad chip.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Hi Clayton,
That is good to hear.  I’ll end my wait and order up some standard MIS clear
carts.
I guess the excitement about spongeless, is anticipated longer suspension
time for the pigments, and no accumulation of pigments in the sponge, that
reduces the flow over time.  Some vendors suggest a maximum refill number
for the sponge carts because of this.
I called MIS this week, and there is no date in sight for 2200 spongeless
carts from them, and I’m unsure of the ones from WeInk that people have had
to shim, to get them working properly.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Clayton
Jones
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 9:41 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 2200 (still
more)

Hello John,

>After reading this, I may give up looking for a 2200 spongeless cart
>that performs like the OEM one.  I would be interested if anyone is
>having trouble free operation with the spongeless ones available.

I don't know what all the excitement about spongeless is for, but I
used regular MIS clear top fill 2200 carts for a long time without any
problems.  In those days I was doing a lot of experiments with inks
and was swapping in and out a lot and used a few carts over and over
many times.  I never had any problems with dripping or clogs or
anything else.  In all that time (and I'm guessing around two dozen
carts or so) I had one defective cart and one bad chip.

Regards,
Clayton




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:
>
> Hello John,
> 
> >After reading this, I may give up looking for a 2200 spongeless cart 
> >that performs like the OEM one.  I would be interested if anyone is 
> >having trouble free operation with the spongeless ones available.
> 
> I don't know what all the excitement about spongeless is for, but I
> used regular MIS clear top fill 2200 carts for a long time without any
> problems.  In those days I was doing a lot of experiments with inks
> and was swapping in and out a lot and used a few carts over and over
> many times.  I never had any problems with dripping or clogs or
> anything else.  In all that time (and I'm guessing around two dozen
> carts or so) I had one defective cart and one bad chip.

Do you ever change a cart from one color to another, or fill it with
cleaning solution to break up possible clogs in the foam?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody"
<moodymz3@y...> wrote:
> I called MIS this week, and there is no date in sight for 2200
spongeless
> carts from them, and I�m unsure of the ones from WeInk that people
have had
> to shim, to get them working properly.
> 
> Best regards,
> John Moody

Were you looking for empty carts? I'm looking for carts to refill with
MISPRO inks for the 2200, and MIS told me today that their prefilled
MP 2200 carts are spongeless, and 'refill friendly'. It's not clear to
me whether they're clear carts - she said they are like the cart
pictured on the top right on this page:

http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm

I need to plow through more of the past posts here, but does anyone
have any opinion yet of the MISPRO ink itself? Anyone tried it with a
RIP, QTR in particular?

I'm hoping to set mine up for general color printing, and try BO
printing with Eboni, and possibly try using the color inks with QTR if
possible for toned B&W printing.

Thanks!

Neil S.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Mike Dobbs <mdobbs@a...>
> 
> > The vent air is 
> > carefully controlled...too much and the static pressure of the ink
> > above the ink head will cause leakage by gravity. Too little vent air
> > and the ink can't get out at all.
> 
> Hmmm sorry but I don't buy it.  I run another brand of (foamless)
cartridges
> in my 2100 with no plugs at all.
>

What brand is that?

I was looking for empty carts, yes.  The info on the pre-filled 2200 carts
is interesting, thanks.  It sure is hard to find them on the website, like
most MIS items are.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of nsimms
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: refilling MISPRO cart for the Epson 2200 (still
more)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John Moody"
<moodymz3@y...> wrote:
> I called MIS this week, and there is no date in sight for 2200
spongeless
> carts from them, and I�m unsure of the ones from WeInk that people
have had
> to shim, to get them working properly.
>
> Best regards,
> John Moody

Were you looking for empty carts? I'm looking for carts to refill with
MISPRO inks for the 2200, and MIS told me today that their prefilled
MP 2200 carts are spongeless, and 'refill friendly'. It's not clear to
me whether they're clear carts - she said they are like the cart
pictured on the top right on this page:

http://www.inksupply.com/spongless_carts.cfm

I need to plow through more of the past posts here, but does anyone
have any opinion yet of the MISPRO ink itself? Anyone tried it with a
RIP, QTR in particular?

I'm hoping to set mine up for general color printing, and try BO
printing with Eboni, and possibly try using the color inks with QTR if
possible for toned B&W printing.

Thanks!

Neil S.






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