Digital BW, The Print

Don't know about the 2400, but it's certainly true with the 2200: VFA (and 
other good matte papers) will not show up unless the matte cartridge is 
installed.
Bert

katzung1@...
www.astronomy-images.com
www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson K3 inks and Advanced B&W mode


Hello Mike,

<snip>

>Plus, I can't seem to get my r2400 to give me the option of vfa.
>it's grayed out.

Hmm, do you have matte black or photo black ink installed?  VFA is a
matte paper, maybe it doesn't show up with PK installed.  Does anyone
else know about this?

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

I had matte black installed, but vfa, ultrasmooth, and watercolor radiant white weren't 
available to me until I selected "manual-roll" under page setup and used the single sheet 
feeder on the back. Maybe that's a quirk of the latest driver software.

Interestingly, I got slightly better results on the particular image I was working on with 
watercolor radiant on Kayenta.  The good news is that I'm getting really superb wysiwyg now 
with ABW. I'm a very happy camper. Thank you Clayton and others for your patience and help.

Alas, the low-ink light is flashing now on my first r2400 inkset. Looks like I may have to go 
out this weekend and take a picture!

Thanks again,

Mike

Hello Mike,

>...until I selected "manual-roll" under page setup and used the 
>single sheet feeder on the back. 

Ahh, of course.  I had a feeling I was forgetting something.  Once you
have it selected it should remain available.  It also should be
possible to switch it back to sheet feeder (it may pop up a warning
but it can be ignored - I run VFA through the sheet feeder all the time).


>Interestingly, I got slightly better results on the particular image
>I was working on with watercolor radiant on Kayenta.  

Good tip.  I'll give that a try next time I use Kayenta.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

"Ink Config" is exactly what Clayton intended to say.  I think new printers 
on the 2400 need to spend more time getting familiar with the machine and 
the driver before expecting to output perfect prints. Clayton learned what 
he did by allot of experimentation and trial and error. There seems to be a 
tendency among newbie's to grab for the shortcut, then complain about the 
results.

Gary


www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tedbshaw" <tedshaw@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson K3 inks and Advanced B&W mode


Clayton, forgive me for butting in here but I think that when you
say, "Ink Config at -5%, you really mean (and please correct me if
I'm wrong) hit the "Paper Config" button, then change the Color
Density to -5%. On your website you also refer to this button as
the "Ink Config" button, but I think you mean the "Paper Config"
button.

Again, I hope I'm not missing something - your website has been
invaluable to me in coming to grips with my R2400.

Best,

Ted

> If you'd like to give it a try, all of the above is explained in
> detail in articles #3 and #4.  While they are focused on BO
printing,
> what's in there forms the foundation of the whole approach.  It
takes
> longer to read it than it takes to do it.  Basically you go into
Color
> Settings and make sure the Grayscale setting is Dot Gain 20%.  Then,
> any image converted to grayscale will have the DG20 image profile.
> After you work up the image, send it to the printer with Tone at
> Light, Ink Config at -5%, paper type a VFA, Best Photo, and see what
> happens.  That's the essence of the whole approach.
>
> Got to go now.  Let us know what happens.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
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GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
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Yahoo! Groups Links

In a message dated 10/14/06 11:06:51 PM, cj@... writes:


> 
> The UK version of the 2200 driver is different than American...never
> understood why they would do that.
> 

Because of US patent issues: the 2100 could print on CDs, the 2200 (North 
American model) could not, to avoid infringing on that US patent. Canadians got 
the US model, without CD printing features, even though the patent didn't apply 
there; just because it was easier that way. So the drivers had to be 
different for the CD printing features. This was all ironed out by the 2400, which is 
a universal version.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well not every "newbie" wants the shortest cut to the perfect print Gary..

 

I just unpacked my new R2400 and I'm stunned by the quality of neutral B&W
I'm getting from the printer on glossy and the Ultra Premium Luster using
just the simplest of setting. I know if this printer is this good without my
intervention it must be fantastic when you spend the time I'm sure Clayton
has spent, and BTW, thanks for sharing Clayton:-)

 

And I think Ted's question was very appropriate, isn't that what this list
is for? Not everyone will have brilliant questions of the masters when they
first start out.

 

And there I go, my first "post" and it could be considered "off topic".

 

Alan

 

 

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Brown
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 7:28 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson K3 inks and Advanced B&W mode

 

"Ink Config" is exactly what Clayton intended to say. I think new printers 
on the 2400 need to spend more time getting familiar with the machine and 
the driver before expecting to output perfect prints. Clayton learned what 
he did by allot of experimentation and trial and error. There seems to be a 
tendency among newbie's to grab for the shortcut, then complain about the 
results.

Gary

www.pbase.com/garyallenbrown

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tedbshaw" <tedshaw@optusnet. <mailto:tedshaw%40optusnet.com.au>
com.au>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 1:16 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson K3 inks and Advanced B&W mode

Clayton, forgive me for butting in here but I think that when you
say, "Ink Config at -5%, you really mean (and please correct me if
I'm wrong) hit the "Paper Config" button, then change the Color
Density to -5%. On your website you also refer to this button as
the "Ink Config" button, but I think you mean the "Paper Config"
button.

Again, I hope I'm not missing something - your website has been
invaluable to me in coming to grips with my R2400.

Best,

Ted

> If you'd like to give it a try, all of the above is explained in
> detail in articles #3 and #4. While they are focused on BO
printing,
> what's in there forms the foundation of the whole approach. It
takes
> longer to read it than it takes to do it. Basically you go into
Color
> Settings and make sure the Grayscale setting is Dot Gain 20%. Then,
> any image converted to grayscale will have the DG20 image profile.
> After you work up the image, send it to the printer with Tone at
> Light, Ink Config at -5%, paper type a VFA, Best Photo, and see what
> happens. That's the essence of the whole approach.
>
> Got to go now. Let us know what happens.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton

Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and

Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU

FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR

ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY

THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 10/14/06 11:06:51 PM, cj@... writes:
> 
> 
> > 
> > The UK version of the 2200 driver is different than American...never
> > understood why they would do that.
> > 
> 
> Because of US patent issues: the 2100 could print on CDs, the 2200
(North 
........... So the drivers had to be different for the CD printing
features. This was all ironed out by the 2400, which is 
> a universal version.
> 
I am afraid that there must be some issues that were not completely
ironed out by the 2400 since there are some cosmetic or interface
differences between US and European drivers.
I bought my 2400 in Spain but use English language drivers and the ink
levels are found under a button that reads "Paper Configuration".
After reading Clayton's directions (for which we will never thank you
enough!) I had to do a little digging but never gave it anymore thought.
I do not know of any other difference and hope there is none, but....

Jorge

In a message dated 10/16/06 12:52:02 PM, jj@... writes:


> I am afraid that there must be some issues that were not completely
> ironed out by the 2400 since there are some cosmetic or interface
> differences between US and European drivers.
> 

True enough, there are still paper size, unit description, voltage and 
similar differences, and varying driver versions in various languages. But the level 
of variation is much reduced, and canned profiles are considered universal 
for the 2400.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I¹m not sure if this has been resolved yet. I too have started my first few
prints of B&W on the epson 2400...

I can only select VFA when manual roll is selected in page setup, otherwise
it is grayed out. If I save the config. and go back to switch to the regular
top load, all my saved settings revert back to default on the print menu...



On 10/14/06 10:06 AM, "Clayton Jones" <cj@...> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Hello Mike,
> 
>> >...until I selected "manual-roll" under page setup and used the
>> >single sheet feeder on the back.
> 
> Ahh, of course.  I had a feeling I was forgetting something.  Once you
> have it selected it should remain available.  It also should be
> possible to switch it back to sheet feeder (it may pop up a warning
> but it can be ignored - I run VFA through the sheet feeder all the time).
> 
>> >Interestingly, I got slightly better results on the particular image
>> >I was working on with watercolor radiant on Kayenta.
> 
> Good tip.  I'll give that a try next time I use Kayenta.
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
>  
>     


-- 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello FRD,

>I¹m not sure if this has been resolved yet. I too have started my
>first few prints of B&W on the epson 2400...
> 
>I can only select VFA when manual roll is selected in page setup,
>otherwise it is grayed out. If I save the config and go back to 
>switch to the regular top load, all my saved settings revert back 
>to default on the print menu...

What joy, another oddity.  Are you in the US? (Trying to determine if
this is another country difference).  I'm in the US, and when the
driver first opens it's set at Sheet, Plain Paper, Normal, Letter
size, and Color Controls.  But VFA is not grayed out.  When I select
it, a warning pops up, then it changes to Manual Roll.  But I can then
switch it back to Sheet and go from there.

So anyway, it's possible you may need to recreate your saved settings.
 But first, see if you can switch back to Sheet feeder while VFA is
selected.  If so, then go ahead and do the others (Best Photo, ABW,
Ink Config, etc), then save those settings.  Next time you open the
driver you can select that custom setting and you'll get it all in one
click.  

I wish Epson would consult with me next time they design a driver
interface <g> (AKA "If I was king I would...").


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Clayton,
Would LOVE to be able to do that. But unless I¹m overlooking something, I
can¹t go back to page setup (I¹m on a Mac BTW and reside in the U.S.) to
switch back to sheet feeder.

So once I¹ve selected manual roll to access VFA, even if I save my config.
Settings, once I go back to it, it resets by default...

I¹ve been proofing on enhanced matte paper so selected it anyway...I don¹t
really know what to judge it against, but looks AOK to me. From this
non-expert, it seemed *pretty* neutral, but thought I detected some color in
there.

Frank


On 10/16/06 8:05 PM, "Clayton Jones" <cj@...> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Hello FRD,
> 
>> >I¹m not sure if this has been resolved yet. I too have started my
>> >first few prints of B&W on the epson 2400...
>> > 
>> >I can only select VFA when manual roll is selected in page setup,
>> >otherwise it is grayed out. If I save the config and go back to
>> >switch to the regular top load, all my saved settings revert back
>> >to default on the print menu...
> 
> What joy, another oddity.  Are you in the US? (Trying to determine if
> this is another country difference).  I'm in the US, and when the
> driver first opens it's set at Sheet, Plain Paper, Normal, Letter
> size, and Color Controls.  But VFA is not grayed out.  When I select
> it, a warning pops up, then it changes to Manual Roll.  But I can then
> switch it back to Sheet and go from there.
> 
> So anyway, it's possible you may need to recreate your saved settings.
>  But first, see if you can switch back to Sheet feeder while VFA is
> selected.  If so, then go ahead and do the others (Best Photo, ABW,
> Ink Config, etc), then save those settings.  Next time you open the
> driver you can select that custom setting and you'll get it all in one
> click.  
> 
> I wish Epson would consult with me next time they design a driver
> interface <g> (AKA "If I was king I would...").
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
>  
>     


-- 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Frank,

>Would LOVE to be able to do that. But unless I¹m overlooking
>something, I can¹t go back to page setup (I¹m on a Mac BTW and 
>reside in the U.S.) to switch back to sheet feeder.

>So once I¹ve selected manual roll to access VFA, even if I save my 
>config. Settings, once I go back to it, it resets by default...

Hmmm...I'm wondering if the Mac driver is different.  The phrase "go
back to page setup" has no meaning for me.  First, I have nothing
called "Page Setup".  All of the settings we've mentioned for me are
on a tab page called "Main".  Second, since it's all done on that page
there is nothing to "go back" to.  Please look at these screen shots
and see if it's different from your driver:

1) This shows the Properties window when it first opens: Sheet, Plain
paper, Normal, Color Controls

     http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-1.gif


2) This shows the paper list, with VFA not grayed out, highlighted
for selection

     http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-2.gif


3) This show the warning box when VFA is selected.  Choose Ignore and
Sheet remains.  Chooks OK and it switches to Manual Roll, but you can
then switch it back to sheet:

     http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-3.gif

There is no "going back" to anything, it's all on the same tab page.



4) This is after the rest of the settings are done: Best Photo, ABW
mode (with Settings button showing)

     http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-4.gif


5) The Settings button opens the ABW window.  Here the Tone is set to
Light, all sliders at 0, and the ABW H/V spinners are set to some
desired values.

     http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-5.gif

At this point it's ready to be saved as a custom setting.


Is the Mac driver different?

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Clayton,
Yes the Mac driver is different. Well, superficially it is, but maddeningly
the ³page setup² which involves paper orientation, scaling is separate from
everything else. And if that¹s not confusing enough, the color management is
in yet another set of dialogue boxes (print with preview) separate from
(finally) the Œprint¹ series of Epson dialog boxes that have the controls
you will be familiar with i.e. ABW, ink density, etc...

The steps usually are:
1. Print with preview: where you can tag your image with profiles, let ps
handle color management...from here you can click a button to go to page
setup or go ahead and print.
2. page setup makes sure your images stay within the paper sizes (and where
you can select where the printer will have its paper fed)
3. print: abw mode, layout, ink config. Other various sundry options

And they seem to make adjustments in reference to each other despite seeming
independent from one another. Hence, when I change to manual roll to access
vfa, going back to the first set and changing resets all your saved configs.


On 10/17/06 11:26 AM, "Clayton Jones" <cj@...> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Hello Frank,
> 
>> >Would LOVE to be able to do that. But unless I¹m overlooking
>> >something, I can¹t go back to page setup (I¹m on a Mac BTW and
>> >reside in the U.S.) to switch back to sheet feeder.
> 
>> >So once I¹ve selected manual roll to access VFA, even if I save my
>> >config. Settings, once I go back to it, it resets by default...
> 
> Hmmm...I'm wondering if the Mac driver is different.  The phrase "go
> back to page setup" has no meaning for me.  First, I have nothing
> called "Page Setup".  All of the settings we've mentioned for me are
> on a tab page called "Main".  Second, since it's all done on that page
> there is nothing to "go back" to.  Please look at these screen shots
> and see if it's different from your driver:
> 
> 1) This shows the Properties window when it first opens: Sheet, Plain
> paper, Normal, Color Controls
> 
> http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-1.gif
> 
> 2) This shows the paper list, with VFA not grayed out, highlighted
> for selection
> 
> http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-2.gif
> 
> 3) This show the warning box when VFA is selected.  Choose Ignore and
> Sheet remains.  Chooks OK and it switches to Manual Roll, but you can
> then switch it back to sheet:
> 
> http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-3.gif
> 
> There is no "going back" to anything, it's all on the same tab page.
> 
> 4) This is after the rest of the settings are done: Best Photo, ABW
> mode (with Settings button showing)
> 
> http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-4.gif
> 
> 5) The Settings button opens the ABW window.  Here the Tone is set to
> Light, all sliders at 0, and the ABW H/V spinners are set to some
> desired values.
> 
> http://www.cjcom.net/files/2400-5.gif
> 
> At this point it's ready to be saved as a custom setting.
> 
> Is the Mac driver different?
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
>  
>     


-- 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Frank,

>Yes the Mac driver is different. Well, superficially it is, but 
>maddeningly the ³page setup² which involves paper orientation, 
>scaling is separate from everything else. And if that¹s not 
>confusing enough, the color management is in yet another set of 
>dialogue boxes (print with preview) separate from (finally) the 
>Œprint¹ series of Epson dialog boxes that have the controls
>you will be familiar with i.e. ABW, ink density, etc...
> 
> The steps usually are:
>1. Print with preview: where you can tag your image with profiles,
>let ps handle color management...from here you can click a button 
>to go to page setup or go ahead and print.

Ok, I think I see what's happening.  I think it's because you're going
in via the Preview window.  I have that too (Crtl+Alt+P).  But Ctrl+P
(whatever that is on a Mac) goes straight into the driver window.  I
don't often use the Preview window, but haven't had any problems when
I do.  Try this: go into the driver first, set everything up, then
save it as a custom setting, then print some small something.  That
will set up the printer/driver with those values.  Then, when you go
into the Preview window it will be already pre-set and maybe it won't
revert.  Something like that ought to work.  

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

> Clayton,
> Forgot to respond to this, but have been doing some testing.
> 
> The only way I could run VFA setting was to feed it through the roll paper
> slot on the back. No matter what I do, if manual roll is not selected in the
> setup (for mac) it will overwrite the settings I saved in the driver...
> 
> I haven¹t called Epson about this, but maybe there¹s a solution?
> 
> ³Ok, I think I see what's happening.  I think it's because you're going
> in via the Preview window.  I have that too (Crtl+Alt+P).  But Ctrl+P
> (whatever that is on a Mac) goes straight into the driver window.  I
> don't often use the Preview window, but haven't had any problems when
> I do.  Try this: go into the driver first, set everything up, then
> save it as a custom setting, then print some small something.  That
> will set up the printer/driver with those values.  Then, when you go
> into the Preview window it will be already pre-set and maybe it won't
> revert.  Something like that ought to work.²
> 
> Regards,
> Clayton
> 
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> 
>  
>     


-- 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]