Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-21 by atmcintyre2001

I'd love to have good things to say about Jon Cone's quad black 
system and his tech support, but unfortunately I can't.

I bought his complete kit last year and later bought an Epson 
recommended on the Inkjetmall website (an 1160.) The machine 
commissioned fine with its own inks but two jets blocked solid after 
I flushed out and installed the new quad blacks.

Three calls to tech support went unanswered, so I airmailed the 
defective materials back. Later (in early December) I sent a personal 
letter to Jon Cone by registered airmail. All 5 of my communications 
have gone unanswered.

I'm now a few hundred $s down and have dead a Epson on my hands. 

Draw your own conclusions.

Re: Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-21 by tomoc

You might just love the Piezo with MIS FS inks. All the benefits of 
piezo with lower cost non-clogging ink.

Tom O'Connell

TomOC@...
www.thomasoconnell.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "atmcintyre2001" 
<amcintyre@b...> wrote:
> I'd love to have good things to say about Jon Cone's quad black 
> system and his tech support, but unfortunately I can't.
> 
> I bought his complete kit last year and later bought an Epson 
> recommended on the Inkjetmall website (an 1160.) The machine 
> commissioned fine with its own inks but two jets blocked solid 
after 
> I flushed out and installed the new quad blacks.
> 
> Three calls to tech support went unanswered, so I airmailed the 
> defective materials back. Later (in early December) I sent a 
personal 
> letter to Jon Cone by registered airmail. All 5 of my 
communications

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> have gone unanswered.
> 
> I'm now a few hundred $s down and have dead a Epson on my hands. 
> 
> Draw your own conclusions.

RE: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-21 by Nij

Are you Andrew?

What cleaning solutions have you tried with your printer? What did you
return to Cone?

I can't help you fix any outstanding issues you may have with ConeTech, but
I can help and offer advice on 1160 maintenance etc and getting Piezography
to work well on you printer. But, of course, it is long enough ago now that
you are probably out of warranty on your printer etc etc.

But, to be clear, whilst you were not my customer, I am here to try and help
if I can. I'm 99% sure that just about any failing printer can be cleared,
even if only for using OEM inks again (or indeed, by using OEM inks!)

Best regards,
Nij

Nigel Rheam
MWORDS Limited   www.mwords.co.uk   Digital Fine Art

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> -----Original Message-----
> From: atmcintyre2001 [mailto:amcintyre@...]
> Sent: 21 January 2002 16:00
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?
>
>
> I'd love to have good things to say about Jon Cone's quad black
> system and his tech support, but unfortunately I can't.
>
> I bought his complete kit last year and later bought an Epson
> recommended on the Inkjetmall website (an 1160.) The machine
> commissioned fine with its own inks but two jets blocked solid after
> I flushed out and installed the new quad blacks.
>
> Three calls to tech support went unanswered, so I airmailed the
> defective materials back. Later (in early December) I sent a personal
> letter to Jon Cone by registered airmail. All 5 of my communications
> have gone unanswered.
>
> I'm now a few hundred $s down and have dead a Epson on my hands.
>
> Draw your own conclusions.
>

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-22 by Andrew McIntyre

Thanks Nij.

I had another 'intensive' again last night with Windex and the original Epson inks which I put back in. At long last am getting a complete nozzle pattern.

Nevertheless I continue to be furious with Conetech. As a customer whose first order was worth £300+ I expected the courtesy of a reply at the very least. On visting the piezo website I found clogs to feature more prominently than print quality so I've decided to give the system a miss.

By contrast my Epson 3000 commissioned perfectly with New Generation Microbrite pigmented inks back in August of last year and has run without a hitch ever since!

. . . .But again, thanks for your kind offer which fortunately I don't think I'll have to call on!


Andrew McIntyre

PS - I've used Windex throughout - specially imported from Canada via my sister!

Show quoted textHide quoted text

---- Original Message ----- 
  From: Nij 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 6:49 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

  Are you Andrew?

  What cleaning solutions have you tried with your printer? What did you
  return to Cone?

  I can't help you fix any outstanding issues you may have with ConeTech, but
  I can help and offer advice on 1160 maintenance etc and getting Piezography
  to work well on you printer. But, of course, it is long enough ago now that
  you are probably out of warranty on your printer etc etc.

  But, to be clear, whilst you were not my customer, I am here to try and help
  if I can. I'm 99% sure that just about any failing printer can be cleared,
  even if only for using OEM inks again (or indeed, by using OEM inks!)

  Best regards,
  Nij

  Nigel Rheam
  MWORDS Limited   www.mwords.co.uk   Digital Fine Art

  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: atmcintyre2001 [mailto:amcintyre@...]
  > Sent: 21 January 2002 16:00
  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?
  >
  >
  > I'd love to have good things to say about Jon Cone's quad black
  > system and his tech support, but unfortunately I can't.
  >
  > I bought his complete kit last year and later bought an Epson
  > recommended on the Inkjetmall website (an 1160.) The machine
  > commissioned fine with its own inks but two jets blocked solid after
  > I flushed out and installed the new quad blacks.
  >
  > Three calls to tech support went unanswered, so I airmailed the
  > defective materials back. Later (in early December) I sent a personal
  > letter to Jon Cone by registered airmail. All 5 of my communications
  > have gone unanswered.
  >
  > I'm now a few hundred $s down and have dead a Epson on my hands.
  >
  > Draw your own conclusions.
  >

  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-22 by mkravit

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Andrew McIntyre" 
<amcintyre@b...> wrote:

> Nevertheless I continue to be furious with Conetech. As a customer 
>whose first order was worth £300+ I expected the courtesy of a reply 
>at the very least. On visting the piezo website I found clogs to 
>feature more prominently than print quality so I've decided to give 
>the system a miss.

Andrew,

Have you tried calling Jon by telephone?  I have spoken with both Jon 
and Bill Burgh many times, although sometimes it has taken them a 
week to get back to me.  Right now, I suppose they are getting ready 
for the PMA show in Orlando, Florida but not an excuse to not return 
calls.

I remember a few months ago that IJM claimed that of their entire 
installed user base (which was quoted to me at 3,000 once and 10,000 
a second time) only 30 people have had problems with clogging inks. 
Well, I personally know of 10 here in South Florida including myself. 
I know that IJM is aware of the problem and is not very pleased about 
it. Rumors point to the release of a newly formulated ink next week 
at PMA that supposedly fixes the problem. I have seen the 
new "Neutral" colored ink and oddly enough it is very similar in tone 
to the MIS FS inkset. It does not seem to be as neutral/cool as I 
expected. 

I know this is not a consolation, but don't give up on your quest to 
obtain grayscale prints. Once you nail down the workflow and get 
everything working you will be very pleased. As time goes on, the 
inks and papers will only get better. I have no doubt that someday 
the longevity and quality will exceed traditional photographic 
materials. Companies like Kodak are pouring large sums of R&D monies 
into pigment and dye research. My personal guess is that we will see 
100 year dyes very soon.

Mike

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-23 by Todd Flashner

> I have no doubt that someday
> the longevity and quality will exceed traditional photographic
> materials. Companies like Kodak are pouring large sums of R&D monies
> into pigment and dye research. My personal guess is that we will see
> 100 year dyes very soon.

I basically hold this assumption too, but you know, they never really
increased the longevity of C-prints over the years, and they're dye based.

I wonder if we are expecting too much out of these materials? The rate of
change is enormous for the electronic side of our digital equations, but
inks are analogue, and I just wonder how quickly they'll improve...

Todd

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-23 by Andrew McIntyre

Thanks Mike.

I'm not giving up on digital b&w. I'm an ex airforce photographer and have too many old negatives to do that!

Nevertheless I am dropping Jon Cone cold. The prices he charges for his software and inks should be sufficient to provide a modest level of tech support irrespective of his other business committments. And if there are known problems with clogs he should be prepared to refund dissatisfied customers and leave them free to go elsewhere.

Under the UK 'Sale of Goods' Act anything offered for sale is required to be "Of merchantable quality and suitable for the purpose for which it is sold." Quite clearly what I received did not comply - hence my reason for rejecting it. On top of that there is the issue that all business ultimately relies on trust and there is now no possibility of my trusting IJM with any more of my money. 

My next port of call will be the MIS FS inkset which appears to have a far better track record than IJM products. All I need is to settle on the best workflow - which is my main reason for joining this news group!

Andrew McIntyre.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: mkravit
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Andrew McIntyre"
<amcintyre@b...> wrote:

> Nevertheless I continue to be furious with Conetech. As a customer
>whose first order was worth £300+ I expected the courtesy of a reply
>at the very least. On visting the piezo website I found clogs to
>feature more prominently than print quality so I've decided to give
>the system a miss.

Andrew,

Have you tried calling Jon by telephone? I have spoken with both Jon
and Bill Burgh many times, although sometimes it has taken them a
week to get back to me. Right now, I suppose they are getting ready
for the PMA show in Orlando, Florida but not an excuse to not return
calls.

I remember a few months ago that IJM claimed that of their entire
installed user base (which was quoted to me at 3,000 once and 10,000
a second time) only 30 people have had problems with clogging inks.
Well, I personally know of 10 here in South Florida including myself.
I know that IJM is aware of the problem and is not very pleased about
it. Rumors point to the release of a newly formulated ink next week
at PMA that supposedly fixes the problem. I have seen the
new "Neutral" colored ink and oddly enough it is very similar in tone
to the MIS FS inkset. It does not seem to be as neutral/cool as I
expected.

I know this is not a consolation, but don't give up on your quest to
obtain grayscale prints. Once you nail down the workflow and get
everything working you will be very pleased. As time goes on, the
inks and papers will only get better. I have no doubt that someday
the longevity and quality will exceed traditional photographic
materials. Companies like Kodak are pouring large sums of R&D monies
into pigment and dye research. My personal guess is that we will see
100 year dyes very soon.

Mike

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-23 by meander@mail.dk

At 13:09 +0000 23/1/02, Andrew McIntyre wrote:
>Under the UK 'Sale of Goods' Act anything offered for sale is 
>required to be "Of merchantable quality and suitable for the purpose 
>for which it is sold." Quite clearly what I received did not comply 
>- hence my reason for rejecting it.

Same here in Denmark. I dropped Piezo because I spent too much time 
de-clogging and not printing. Much of the free support came from the 
users, like the windex trick and the 1160 being the best printer at 
that time. I think the clogging and greenies issues should have been 
up front from the start, not as an after thought. I am still amazed 
about the original claim that no dyes were used or the ink was pure 
pigment yet the greenies suggest different. I think it was Jerry O, a 
user, who first questioned the tone from day one. Instead of pulling 
his leg about his sight we should have asked ConeTech for a 
definitive statement.
  It is a pity that we are two of the, only 30 or so, people who 
failed with the product because I actually liked the prints!

However, I think we should be careful in our criticism of whether or 
not Piezo was prematurely marketed, and not tar people like Nij  of 
mwords  with the same brush. I received a lot of after sales help 
from Nij. For people who have the time, patience and money to play 
with piezo his service is second to none.

jerry.

Piezo to MIS VM transisition...

2002-01-23 by Lawrence Smith

I have/had been using Piezo inks for many months in one of my 1160's and
have just recently switched to the MIS VM inks.  The warm prints are
virtually indistinguishable from the piezo prints.  The only difference I
can see is that they do not have the very slight green cast that my piezos
have.  I did not even notice the green until I put the MIS VM and the piezos
side by side.  I will not be ordering anymore piezo inks as the cost is too
high and the clogging is a pain.  The downside to the VM is the build your
own curves for each paper' requirement.  Paul's curves for the 1160 and EAM
are really good but I also use the German Etching Board 310 and need to make
some curves for that paper as well...  Anybody already done this and willing
to share?  Anyway, to be able to produce prints ranging from warm to cold
from one printer is a godsend and many thanks to the folks at MIS and
especially Paul Roark for all his hard work.


Lawrence
------------------------------
Lawrence W. Smith Photography
http://www.lwsphoto.com
lsmith@...
------------------------------

Re: Piezo to MIS VM transisition...

2002-01-23 by wolfkphotos

This question may have already been addressed previously, but I am
new 
to the B&W digital print process, having just invested in the 
piezography system.
Is it possible to print with the MIS FS inks using the Cone plug-in
and 
their paper profiles? If so, how accurate do the profiles remain with 
that ink/paper combinations?
I have just tested about 10 different papers  using the Cone profiles 
and was impressed with their consistency- there was very little 
adjustment required when changing the papers other than nozzle 
alignment for thickness. I'd hate to lose this functionality, but I 
need to convert now to a CIS system, and Cone is seriously expensive, 
and causing me some problems as well. 
I seem to be experiencing the dread clogs, and although the nozzle 
check prints out with no gaps whatever, I see very fine banding in
the 
dark midtones through to the blacks. This banding was not occuring
for 
the first week or so after I converted my 1200 to the system, but
after 
leaving the printer unused over the Xmas holidays, I got the bands. 
Nothing I do gets me back to the original state (I've tried all the 
cleaning 
tricks) and am hoping that a change of inks will do the trick.
I've seen what the system is capable of, and want desperately to
retire 
my wet-room, but I'm just not yet producing the quality that I need
in 
order to do so. 
I've made labs redo giclees because of technical problems with 
their prints, and I don't want to be put in that same position where
my 
clients do the same to me.
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Wolf Kutnahorsky

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

2002-01-24 by Michael Kravit

Andrew,

You are 100% correct.

I think you shoudl have great success with the MIS product. 

Best luck
Mike

Show quoted textHide quoted text

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew McIntyre
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

Thanks Mike.

I'm not giving up on digital b&w. I'm an ex airforce photographer and have too many old negatives to do that!

Nevertheless I am dropping Jon Cone cold. The prices he charges for his software and inks should be sufficient to provide a modest level of tech support irrespective of his other business committments. And if there are known problems with clogs he should be prepared to refund dissatisfied customers and leave them free to go elsewhere.

Under the UK 'Sale of Goods' Act anything offered for sale is required to be "Of merchantable quality and suitable for the purpose for which it is sold." Quite clearly what I received did not comply - hence my reason for rejecting it. On top of that there is the issue that all business ultimately relies on trust and there is now no possibility of my trusting IJM with any more of my money.

My next port of call will be the MIS FS inkset which appears to have a far better track record than IJM products. All I need is to settle on the best workflow - which is my main reason for joining this news group!

Andrew McIntyre.

----- Original Message -----
From: mkravit
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Andrew McIntyre"
<amcintyre@b...> wrote:

> Nevertheless I continue to be furious with Conetech. As a customer
>whose first order was worth £300+ I expected the courtesy of a reply
>at the very least. On visting the piezo website I found clogs to
>feature more prominently than print quality so I've decided to give
>the system a miss.

Andrew,

Have you tried calling Jon by telephone? I have spoken with both Jon
and Bill Burgh many times, although sometimes it has taken them a
week to get back to me. Right now, I suppose they are getting ready
for the PMA show in Orlando, Florida but not an excuse to not return
calls.

I remember a few months ago that IJM claimed that of their entire
installed user base (which was quoted to me at 3,000 once and 10,000
a second time) only 30 people have had problems with clogging inks.
Well, I personally know of 10 here in South Florida including myself.
I know that IJM is aware of the problem and is not very pleased about
it. Rumors point to the release of a newly formulated ink next week
at PMA that supposedly fixes the problem. I have seen the
new "Neutral" colored ink and oddly enough it is very similar in tone
to the MIS FS inkset. It does not seem to be as neutral/cool as I
expected.

I know this is not a consolation, but don't give up on your quest to
obtain grayscale prints. Once you nail down the workflow and get
everything working you will be very pleased. As time goes on, the
inks and papers will only get better. I have no doubt that someday
the longevity and quality will exceed traditional photographic
materials. Companies like Kodak are pouring large sums of R&D monies
into pigment and dye research. My personal guess is that we will see
100 year dyes very soon.

Mike

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT

Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Digital BW, The Print

Piezo Technical Support?

Piezo Technical Support?

Re: Piezo Technical Support?

RE: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

Piezo to MIS VM transisition...

Re: Piezo to MIS VM transisition...

Re: [Digital BW] Piezo Technical Support?

Move to quarantaine