Digital BW, The Print

Bob Marsolais wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V.
>Image Service" <editor@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Ok, this is a PURE printing issue and reportedly ONLY under Windows.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Actually, this is a PURE Adobe issue, which you have posted on
>multiple non-Adobe specific message boards...
>
>Recently some of the Digital B&W and Epson Printer digests have had
>over 66% of their content related to CS3-specific issues.  
>
1)     Well that's interesting. Because , since I posted my first post 
on this list regarding the issue, on May 12, there have been exactly 16 
posts from me out of 131 total posts  onlist during the same period.  
Doing the math, that comes out to approximately 12%.

2)    I set up the EPSON list in 2000 and spend time running it EVERY 
day, you.. um... don't... I spend time every day moderating: approving 
posts, approving members, etc. That's while teaching and taking 
courses.  Got any idea how much dedication it takes BY MYSELF to deal 
for 7 years with  lists that now total over 10,000 subscribers?  How 
about monitoring a few hundred posts a day?  Ask the moderators here how 
much time it takes and how you always have to make sure someone 
checks...  even on vacation...

.and you know what? I'm the ONLY moderator of those groups (others have 
dropped the ball repeatedly), that means most of the time, I don't have 
the leisure to  post., meaning I only post when I think it's necessary 
to get some news out there.

I don't get free ink from EPSON or the other printer manufacturers. I 
don't get printer deals from anyone. I don't get a dime from advertising 
or YAHOO!  I get virtually NOTHING for running those lists and yet I 
give my time freely. (My lawyer thinks I should have used the lists to 
make money long ago, but I have refused, because it isn't in the spirit 
of why and how the groups were set up.)

Bottomline?  As unfair as it may sound, that means, at the end of the 
day, I decide what content gets posted there and what doesn't. I also 
decide who is allowed to post there, and under what conditions. In fact, 
I generally leave people free to post until/unless they engage in 
personal attacks. If they do, they go.

If you don't like the EPSON list content, you are free to leave that 
list. As for this list, it is moderated by others and B&W focusses, 
therefore I have consciously not posted a good deal of what has been 
posted over on the EPSON list regarding CS3.

>Combine
>that with getting your identical post multiple times from multiple
>user groups, we non-CS3 users are spending a lot of time filtering
>through non-B&W printing issues that do not apply to us.  The majority
>of us probably don't use CS3, but rather CS2 or earlier, Elements,
>PWP, or something else. 
>
That's the reality of having multiple subscriptions. How do you think I 
deal with that when running four printer lists and moderating a fifth?

> May I suggest you're stretching beyond proper
>limits what is appropriate to post on this very topic-specific board?
>
>  
>
You may suggest it and I appreciate the tone, but Photoshop is still the 
pre-eminent image editing program out there. In fact, without it, B&W 
digital printing would not be where it is today. Again, feel free to ask 
the REAL experts like Roark, Clayton or CD Tobie.

>Respectfully submitted for your consideration,
>
>  
>
..and appreciated. Keep in mind that chaff is part of why I generally 
haven't responded to attacks on my posts: if for no other reason than to 
keep posts that have a low signal to noise ratio down.

Before throwing rocks at the messenger next time (and I don't mean you 
specifically), it would be nice for people to consider what the 
messenger has given the community at no cost. Adobe and the printer 
manufacturers get paid for what they do.  I do it because I give a damn 
about the user community.  Maybe that's a ridiculously dated and 
benighted concept in this day of commodification of everything right 
down to forehead space for advertising, but it's an idea many once shared.

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 

****************************************************************
CONFIDENTIALITY & COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
This e-mail message, including attachments and contents, is © Copyright, 
Keith Krebs, 2001-2007, All Rights Reserved. It is expressly for the 
sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Absent the express written authorization of the 
author, any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, transfer, or 
distribution is explicitly prohibited and taken at your own risk. If you 
are not, or are unsure whether you are, the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of the original 
message. Violations will be prosecuted to the FULL extent allowed under 
applicable civil and criminal law. Imagery published or distributed in 
violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image 
liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright 
violation penalties.

POV IMage Service Banner
****************************************************************
{ The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One last item Bob.

How many of those who hurl rocks at those of us who freely run lists 
like this, especially since they are essentially defending the corporate 
status quo in asking that negative product information be consciously 
concealed by those of us aware of the product flaws, when we post "bad 
news" would do what we do without being paid for it? 


Hell, I don't even teach printing or photography. Doing this doesn't 
even help my résumé or career path.  Put yourself in my shoes for just a 
moment before casting stones.

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 

****************************************************************
CONFIDENTIALITY & COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
This e-mail message, including attachments and contents, is © Copyright, 
Keith Krebs, 2001-2007, All Rights Reserved. It is expressly for the 
sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Absent the express written authorization of the 
author, any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, transfer, or 
distribution is explicitly prohibited and taken at your own risk. If you 
are not, or are unsure whether you are, the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of the original 
message. Violations will be prosecuted to the FULL extent allowed under 
applicable civil and criminal law. Imagery published or distributed in 
violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image 
liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright 
violation penalties.

POV IMage Service Banner
****************************************************************
{ The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Bible merrily approves of hurled rocks for, uh, Onanism, but it
also engages in garbled communication. How are we to judge the following? 


> 
> How many of those who hurl rocks at those of us who freely run lists 
> like this, especially since they are essentially defending the
corporate 

> status quo in asking that negative product information be consciously 
> concealed by those of us aware of the product flaws, when we post "bad 
> news" would do what we do without being paid for it? 
> 
>

That *is* quite a sentence.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "djon43"
<djon43@...> wrote:
>
>
> 
> > 
> > How many of those who hurl rocks at those of us who freely run lists 
> > like this, especially since they are essentially defending the
> corporate 
> > status quo in asking that negative product information be consciously 
> > concealed by those of us aware of the product flaws, when we post
"bad 

> > news" would do what we do without being paid for it? 
> > 
> >
>

Weren't you supposed to take your ball and go home. By the way, there is one 
more line to add after your name "delusions of grandeur".

Gary

"me thinks you protestith too much"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Photoshop CS3 Win distortion w/unequal 
horizontal and veritcal printing re


Bob Marsolais wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V.
>Image Service" <editor@...> wrote:
>
>
>>Ok, this is a PURE printing issue and reportedly ONLY under Windows.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Actually, this is a PURE Adobe issue, which you have posted on
>multiple non-Adobe specific message boards...
>
>Recently some of the Digital B&W and Epson Printer digests have had
>over 66% of their content related to CS3-specific issues.
>
1)     Well that's interesting. Because , since I posted my first post
on this list regarding the issue, on May 12, there have been exactly 16
posts from me out of 131 total posts  onlist during the same period.
Doing the math, that comes out to approximately 12%.

2)    I set up the EPSON list in 2000 and spend time running it EVERY
day, you.. um... don't... I spend time every day moderating: approving
posts, approving members, etc. That's while teaching and taking
courses.  Got any idea how much dedication it takes BY MYSELF to deal
for 7 years with  lists that now total over 10,000 subscribers?  How
about monitoring a few hundred posts a day?  Ask the moderators here how
much time it takes and how you always have to make sure someone
checks...  even on vacation...

.and you know what? I'm the ONLY moderator of those groups (others have
dropped the ball repeatedly), that means most of the time, I don't have
the leisure to  post., meaning I only post when I think it's necessary
to get some news out there.

I don't get free ink from EPSON or the other printer manufacturers. I
don't get printer deals from anyone. I don't get a dime from advertising
or YAHOO!  I get virtually NOTHING for running those lists and yet I
give my time freely. (My lawyer thinks I should have used the lists to
make money long ago, but I have refused, because it isn't in the spirit
of why and how the groups were set up.)

Bottomline?  As unfair as it may sound, that means, at the end of the
day, I decide what content gets posted there and what doesn't. I also
decide who is allowed to post there, and under what conditions. In fact,
I generally leave people free to post until/unless they engage in
personal attacks. If they do, they go.

If you don't like the EPSON list content, you are free to leave that
list. As for this list, it is moderated by others and B&W focusses,
therefore I have consciously not posted a good deal of what has been
posted over on the EPSON list regarding CS3.

>Combine
>that with getting your identical post multiple times from multiple
>user groups, we non-CS3 users are spending a lot of time filtering
>through non-B&W printing issues that do not apply to us.  The majority
>of us probably don't use CS3, but rather CS2 or earlier, Elements,
>PWP, or something else.
>
That's the reality of having multiple subscriptions. How do you think I
deal with that when running four printer lists and moderating a fifth?

> May I suggest you're stretching beyond proper
>limits what is appropriate to post on this very topic-specific board?
>
>
>
You may suggest it and I appreciate the tone, but Photoshop is still the
pre-eminent image editing program out there. In fact, without it, B&W
digital printing would not be where it is today. Again, feel free to ask
the REAL experts like Roark, Clayton or CD Tobie.

>Respectfully submitted for your consideration,
>
>
>
..and appreciated. Keep in mind that chaff is part of why I generally
haven't responded to attacks on my posts: if for no other reason than to
keep posts that have a low signal to noise ratio down.

Before throwing rocks at the messenger next time (and I don't mean you
specifically), it would be nice for people to consider what the
messenger has given the community at no cost. Adobe and the printer
manufacturers get paid for what they do.  I do it because I give a damn
about the user community.  Maybe that's a ridiculously dated and
benighted concept in this day of commodification of everything right
down to forehead space for advertising, but it's an idea many once shared.


Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
guys"



****************************************************************
CONFIDENTIALITY & COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
This e-mail message, including attachments and contents, is \ufffd Copyright,
Keith Krebs, 2001-2007, All Rights Reserved. It is expressly for the
sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Absent the express written authorization of the
author, any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, transfer, or
distribution is explicitly prohibited and taken at your own risk. If you
are not, or are unsure whether you are, the intended recipient, please
contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of the original
message. Violations will be prosecuted to the FULL extent allowed under
applicable civil and criminal law. Imagery published or distributed in
violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image
liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright
violation penalties.

POV IMage Service Banner
****************************************************************
{ The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Brown"
<baffin@...> wrote:
>
> Weren't you supposed to take your ball and go home. By the way,
there is one 
> more line to add after your name "delusions of grandeur".
> 

More of the "newsgroup mentality talk" we've been having lately. It's
time we get back to more civilised posting.

Andre

Krebs,

It was ok to post your complaints the first time, but your continued
reposting and rehashing the same issue obviously is getting on
people's nerves. Please just give it a rest. I'm just as sick of it as
everyone else is.

This is one of the few forums that I participate in that doesn't often
devolve into stick throwing and name calling. Your self proclaimed
bona fides are meaningless when taken in context with your behavior on
this list.

A simple suggestion, don't reply to this post, you've already tried to
explain yourself multiple times. Once more isn't going to help.

Derek

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V.
Image Service" <editor@...> wrote:
>
> Bob Marsolais wrote:
> 
> >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V.
> >Image Service" <editor@> wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Ok, this is a PURE printing issue and reportedly ONLY under Windows.
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Actually, this is a PURE Adobe issue, which you have posted on
> >multiple non-Adobe specific message boards...
> >
> >Recently some of the Digital B&W and Epson Printer digests have had
> >over 66% of their content related to CS3-specific issues.  
> >
> 1)     Well that's interesting. Because , since I posted my first post 
> on this list regarding the issue, on May 12, there have been exactly 16 
> posts from me out of 131 total posts  onlist during the same period.  
> Doing the math, that comes out to approximately 12%.
> 
> 2)    I set up the EPSON list in 2000 and spend time running it EVERY 
> day, you.. um... don't... I spend time every day moderating: approving 
> posts, approving members, etc. That's while teaching and taking 
> courses.  Got any idea how much dedication it takes BY MYSELF to deal 
> for 7 years with  lists that now total over 10,000 subscribers?  How 
> about monitoring a few hundred posts a day?  Ask the moderators here
how 
> much time it takes and how you always have to make sure someone 
> checks...  even on vacation...
> 
> .and you know what? I'm the ONLY moderator of those groups (others have 
> dropped the ball repeatedly), that means most of the time, I don't have 
> the leisure to  post., meaning I only post when I think it's necessary 
> to get some news out there.
> 
> I don't get free ink from EPSON or the other printer manufacturers. I 
> don't get printer deals from anyone. I don't get a dime from
advertising 
> or YAHOO!  I get virtually NOTHING for running those lists and yet I 
> give my time freely. (My lawyer thinks I should have used the lists to 
> make money long ago, but I have refused, because it isn't in the spirit 
> of why and how the groups were set up.)
> 
> Bottomline?  As unfair as it may sound, that means, at the end of the 
> day, I decide what content gets posted there and what doesn't. I also 
> decide who is allowed to post there, and under what conditions. In
fact, 
> I generally leave people free to post until/unless they engage in 
> personal attacks. If they do, they go.
> 
> If you don't like the EPSON list content, you are free to leave that 
> list. As for this list, it is moderated by others and B&W focusses, 
> therefore I have consciously not posted a good deal of what has been 
> posted over on the EPSON list regarding CS3.
> 
> >Combine
> >that with getting your identical post multiple times from multiple
> >user groups, we non-CS3 users are spending a lot of time filtering
> >through non-B&W printing issues that do not apply to us.  The majority
> >of us probably don't use CS3, but rather CS2 or earlier, Elements,
> >PWP, or something else. 
> >
> That's the reality of having multiple subscriptions. How do you think I 
> deal with that when running four printer lists and moderating a fifth?
> 
> > May I suggest you're stretching beyond proper
> >limits what is appropriate to post on this very topic-specific board?
> >
> >  
> >
> You may suggest it and I appreciate the tone, but Photoshop is still
the 
> pre-eminent image editing program out there. In fact, without it, B&W 
> digital printing would not be where it is today. Again, feel free to
ask 
> the REAL experts like Roark, Clayton or CD Tobie.
> 
> >Respectfully submitted for your consideration,
> >
> >  
> >
> ..and appreciated. Keep in mind that chaff is part of why I generally 
> haven't responded to attacks on my posts: if for no other reason
than to 
> keep posts that have a low signal to noise ratio down.
> 
> Before throwing rocks at the messenger next time (and I don't mean you 
> specifically), it would be nice for people to consider what the 
> messenger has given the community at no cost. Adobe and the printer 
> manufacturers get paid for what they do.  I do it because I give a damn 
> about the user community.  Maybe that's a ridiculously dated and 
> benighted concept in this day of commodification of everything right 
> down to forehead space for advertising, but it's an idea many once
shared.

> 
>  
> Keith Krebs

1)  I haven't reposted or rehashed a single issue.

2)  It got on the nerves of several individuals as soon as it was first 
posted. They either don't care or they would prefer not to know. Too 
bad. That doesn't give them the right to try and shut down the flow of 
information. If it did, anyone could simply complain whenever a topic 
they don't want to hear about comes up (as Gary Brown has tended to do 
for the last 18 months)  and people will shut up.  I won't.

dealy663 wrote:
> Krebs,
>
> It was ok to post your complaints the first time, but your continued
> reposting and rehashing the same issue obviously is getting on
> people's nerves. Please just give it a rest. I'm just as sick of it as
> everyone else is.
>
> This is one of the few forums that I participate in that doesn't often
> devolve into stick throwing and name calling. Your self proclaimed
> bona fides are meaningless when taken in context with your behavior on
> this list.
>
> A simple suggestion, don't reply to this post, you've already tried to
> explain yourself multiple times. Once more isn't going to help.
>
> Derek
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V.
> Image Service" <editor@...> wrote:
>   
>> Bob Marsolais wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V.
>>> Image Service" <editor@> wrote:
>>>  
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Ok, this is a PURE printing issue and reportedly ONLY under Windows.
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Actually, this is a PURE Adobe issue, which you have posted on
>>> multiple non-Adobe specific message boards...
>>>
>>> Recently some of the Digital B&W and Epson Printer digests have had
>>> over 66% of their content related to CS3-specific issues.  
>>>
>>>       
>> 1)     Well that's interesting. Because , since I posted my first post 
>> on this list regarding the issue, on May 12, there have been exactly 16 
>> posts from me out of 131 total posts  onlist during the same period.  
>> Doing the math, that comes out to approximately 12%.
>>
>> 2)    I set up the EPSON list in 2000 and spend time running it EVERY 
>> day, you.. um... don't... I spend time every day moderating: approving 
>> posts, approving members, etc. That's while teaching and taking 
>> courses.  Got any idea how much dedication it takes BY MYSELF to deal 
>> for 7 years with  lists that now total over 10,000 subscribers?  How 
>> about monitoring a few hundred posts a day?  Ask the moderators here
>>     
> how 
>   
>> much time it takes and how you always have to make sure someone 
>> checks...  even on vacation...
>>
>> .and you know what? I'm the ONLY moderator of those groups (others have 
>> dropped the ball repeatedly), that means most of the time, I don't have 
>> the leisure to  post., meaning I only post when I think it's necessary 
>> to get some news out there.
>>
>> I don't get free ink from EPSON or the other printer manufacturers. I 
>> don't get printer deals from anyone. I don't get a dime from
>>     
> advertising 
>   
>> or YAHOO!  I get virtually NOTHING for running those lists and yet I 
>> give my time freely. (My lawyer thinks I should have used the lists to 
>> make money long ago, but I have refused, because it isn't in the spirit 
>> of why and how the groups were set up.)
>>
>> Bottomline?  As unfair as it may sound, that means, at the end of the 
>> day, I decide what content gets posted there and what doesn't. I also 
>> decide who is allowed to post there, and under what conditions. In
>>     
> fact, 
>   
>> I generally leave people free to post until/unless they engage in 
>> personal attacks. If they do, they go.
>>
>> If you don't like the EPSON list content, you are free to leave that 
>> list. As for this list, it is moderated by others and B&W focusses, 
>> therefore I have consciously not posted a good deal of what has been 
>> posted over on the EPSON list regarding CS3.
>>
>>     
>>> Combine
>>> that with getting your identical post multiple times from multiple
>>> user groups, we non-CS3 users are spending a lot of time filtering
>>> through non-B&W printing issues that do not apply to us.  The majority
>>> of us probably don't use CS3, but rather CS2 or earlier, Elements,
>>> PWP, or something else. 
>>>
>>>       
>> That's the reality of having multiple subscriptions. How do you think I 
>> deal with that when running four printer lists and moderating a fifth?
>>
>>     
>>> May I suggest you're stretching beyond proper
>>> limits what is appropriate to post on this very topic-specific board?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>       
>> You may suggest it and I appreciate the tone, but Photoshop is still
>>     
> the 
>   
>> pre-eminent image editing program out there. In fact, without it, B&W 
>> digital printing would not be where it is today. Again, feel free to
>>     
> ask 
>   
>> the REAL experts like Roark, Clayton or CD Tobie.
>>
>>     
>>> Respectfully submitted for your consideration,
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>       
>> ..and appreciated. Keep in mind that chaff is part of why I generally 
>> haven't responded to attacks on my posts: if for no other reason
>>     
> than to 
>   
>> keep posts that have a low signal to noise ratio down.
>>
>> Before throwing rocks at the messenger next time (and I don't mean you 
>> specifically), it would be nice for people to consider what the 
>> messenger has given the community at no cost. Adobe and the printer 
>> manufacturers get paid for what they do.  I do it because I give a damn 
>> about the user community.  Maybe that's a ridiculously dated and 
>> benighted concept in this day of commodification of everything right 
>> down to forehead space for advertising, but it's an idea many once
>>     
> shared.
>   
>>  
>> Keith Krebs
>>     
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>   

-- 

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 

****************************************************************
CONFIDENTIALITY & COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
This e-mail message, including attachments and contents, is © Copyright, 
Keith Krebs, 2001-2006, All Rights Reserved. It is expressly for the 
sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Absent the express written authorization of the 
author, any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, transfer, or 
distribution is explicitly prohibited and taken at your own risk. If you 
are not, or are unsure whether you are, the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of the original 
message. Violations will be prosecuted to the FULL extent allowed under 
applicable civil and criminal law. Imagery published or distributed in 
violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image 
liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright 
violation penalties.

POV IMage Service Banner
****************************************************************
{ The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From the group rules of this forum Gary:

1)  "Open and candid discussion is encouraged. However, courtesy must 
prevail and it is expected that exchanges should not deteriorate into 
personal insults, harassment, threats, etc. Beyond these obvious 
breaches of civilized behavior, users who are persistently hostile, 
aggressive or argumentative will be considered to be in violation of the 
rules and spirit of this forum. "

You have a history on this list of appointing yourself the list-cop AND 
attacking longterm members/contributors of the digital imaging 
community.  I'll simply suggest that if you intend to take that role on, 
you might want to read the rules and understand the difference between 
debate and ad hominem personal attack.

You also have a history of personally attacking people on this list when 
their opinions don't support your preconceptions. I'll remind you here 
of your attack on Dave Tobie in January:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/83404

or your ad-hominem attack in February of a poster's use of the word 
"color" to describe some online B&W images:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/83567

or another ad hominem attack by you (this one against formal 
recognition/certification):
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/78838

or one on another poster's credibility, simply because she asked questions:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/74514

or another, ad hominem attack upon someone's photographic work/credentials:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/68430

or one on the need for technical/scientific discussions on this list:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/73372

Of course, you have also posted to the list how much of the technical 
side you've learned from it over the years...

..and used to even ask for technical explanations, such as why one might 
prefer 16bit to 8bit image processing.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/66522

You came to this list a scant two years ago using a 1280 for B&W and 
were generally exceedingly polite throughout until early October of 2005 
(I gotta wonder what changed your attitude towards life and people 
around then) .

It seems, since then, you have a clear trend of onliest issues with 
individuals or systems that have formal certification of authority, or 
even whom the community has recognized as authorities... I won't posit 
why that might be onliest, but feel free to email me offlist if you want 
some constructive suggestions as to why that might be and how to 
overcome such "issues."

2)  "Please only post messages and questions relating to making B&W 
(monochrome) prints using digital techniques. This may sound rather 
narrow but it can be very broad since it is impossible to discuss final 
output without considering input in great detail. The discussion will 
include all aspects of photography from image capture through final 
print, but posters should make an effort to relate their posts to the 
ultimate production of B&W prints."

I'm just guessing, but I think Photoshop has a MUCH more direct relation 
to Digital B&W than, OH, I dunno, someone's personal history as a 
sign-maker: 
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/83401
or
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/76453

Apparently, you agree, since you posted some Photoshop CS3 Beta 
installation info yourself:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/83568

If you want to continue to engage in personal attack, feel free to mail 
me offlist - onliest is not the place for it (if you think thank-yous 
don't belong onliest, then personal attacks certainly don't) .

I've been an active listmember since Martin established this list, and 
YOU are not about to harass me into shutting up or leaving a list.

Try being polite, even if you just hate the "idea"of  one listmember 
thanking another onliest:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/77580
or
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/69865

Got it?

For my part, you can now post all you want about me Gary. I've had my 
say in response. For now, I'll simply take YOUR advice regarding posters 
who thrive on personal negativity and ignore any personal attack posts 
by you: in the hopes that you'll simply go away.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/68494



Gary Brown wrote:
> Weren't you supposed to take your ball and go home. By the way, there is one 
> more line to add after your name "delusions of grandeur".
>
> Gary
>
> "me thinks you protestith too much"
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@p-o-v-image.com>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Photoshop CS3 Win distortion w/unequal 
> horizontal and veritcal printing re
>
>
> Bob Marsolais wrote:
>
>   
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Editor P.O.V.
>> Image Service" <editor@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     
>>> Ok, this is a PURE printing issue and reportedly ONLY under Windows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> Actually, this is a PURE Adobe issue, which you have posted on
>> multiple non-Adobe specific message boards...
>>
>> Recently some of the Digital B&W and Epson Printer digests have had
>> over 66% of their content related to CS3-specific issues.
>>
>>     
> 1)     Well that's interesting. Because , since I posted my first post
> on this list regarding the issue, on May 12, there have been exactly 16
> posts from me out of 131 total posts  onlist during the same period.
> Doing the math, that comes out to approximately 12%.
>
> 2)    I set up the EPSON list in 2000 and spend time running it EVERY
> day, you.. um... don't... I spend time every day moderating: approving
> posts, approving members, etc. That's while teaching and taking
> courses.  Got any idea how much dedication it takes BY MYSELF to deal
> for 7 years with  lists that now total over 10,000 subscribers?  How
> about monitoring a few hundred posts a day?  Ask the moderators here how
> much time it takes and how you always have to make sure someone
> checks...  even on vacation...
>
> .and you know what? I'm the ONLY moderator of those groups (others have
> dropped the ball repeatedly), that means most of the time, I don't have
> the leisure to  post., meaning I only post when I think it's necessary
> to get some news out there.
>
> I don't get free ink from EPSON or the other printer manufacturers. I
> don't get printer deals from anyone. I don't get a dime from advertising
> or YAHOO!  I get virtually NOTHING for running those lists and yet I
> give my time freely. (My lawyer thinks I should have used the lists to
> make money long ago, but I have refused, because it isn't in the spirit
> of why and how the groups were set up.)
>
> Bottomline?  As unfair as it may sound, that means, at the end of the
> day, I decide what content gets posted there and what doesn't. I also
> decide who is allowed to post there, and under what conditions. In fact,
> I generally leave people free to post until/unless they engage in
> personal attacks. If they do, they go.
>
> If you don't like the EPSON list content, you are free to leave that
> list. As for this list, it is moderated by others and B&W focusses,
> therefore I have consciously not posted a good deal of what has been
> posted over on the EPSON list regarding CS3.
>
>   
>> Combine
>> that with getting your identical post multiple times from multiple
>> user groups, we non-CS3 users are spending a lot of time filtering
>> through non-B&W printing issues that do not apply to us.  The majority
>> of us probably don't use CS3, but rather CS2 or earlier, Elements,
>> PWP, or something else.
>>
>>     
> That's the reality of having multiple subscriptions. How do you think I
> deal with that when running four printer lists and moderating a fifth?
>
>   
>> May I suggest you're stretching beyond proper
>> limits what is appropriate to post on this very topic-specific board?
>>
>>
>>
>>     
> You may suggest it and I appreciate the tone, but Photoshop is still the
> pre-eminent image editing program out there. In fact, without it, B&W
> digital printing would not be where it is today. Again, feel free to ask
> the REAL experts like Roark, Clayton or CD Tobie.
>
>   
>> Respectfully submitted for your consideration,
>>
>>
>>
>>     
> ..and appreciated. Keep in mind that chaff is part of why I generally
> haven't responded to attacks on my posts: if for no other reason than to
> keep posts that have a low signal to noise ratio down.
>
> Before throwing rocks at the messenger next time (and I don't mean you
> specifically), it would be nice for people to consider what the
> messenger has given the community at no cost. Adobe and the printer
> manufacturers get paid for what they do.  I do it because I give a damn
> about the user community.  Maybe that's a ridiculously dated and
> benighted concept in this day of commodification of everything right
> down to forehead space for advertising, but it's an idea many once shared.
>
>
> Keith Krebs
>
> "Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer
> User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo
> Publications), at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
> and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
> "For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together
> guys"
>
>
>
> ****************************************************************
> CONFIDENTIALITY & COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
> This e-mail message, including attachments and contents, is © Copyright,
> Keith Krebs, 2001-2007, All Rights Reserved. It is expressly for the
> sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Absent the express written authorization of the
> author, any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, transfer, or
> distribution is explicitly prohibited and taken at your own risk. If you
> are not, or are unsure whether you are, the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of the original
> message. Violations will be prosecuted to the FULL extent allowed under
> applicable civil and criminal law. Imagery published or distributed in
> violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image
> liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright
> violation penalties.
>
> POV IMage Service Banner
> ****************************************************************
> { The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>   

-- 

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 

****************************************************************
CONFIDENTIALITY & COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
This e-mail message, including attachments and contents, is © Copyright, 
Keith Krebs, 2001-2006, All Rights Reserved. It is expressly for the 
sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Absent the express written authorization of the 
author, any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, transfer, or 
distribution is explicitly prohibited and taken at your own risk. If you 
are not, or are unsure whether you are, the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of the original 
message. Violations will be prosecuted to the FULL extent allowed under 
applicable civil and criminal law. Imagery published or distributed in 
violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image 
liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright 
violation penalties.

POV IMage Service Banner
****************************************************************
{ The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In the Old Testament, yes. Of course, the Old Testament also approves 
of slavery.  I prefer the New Testament for its update on appropriate 
"rock hurling/stonecasting."


djon43 wrote:
> The Bible merrily approves of hurled rocks for, uh, Onanism, but it
> also engages in garbled communication. How are we to judge the following? 
>
>
>   
>> How many of those who hurl rocks at those of us who freely run lists 
>> like this, especially since they are essentially defending the
>>     
> corporate 
>   
>> status quo in asking that negative product information be consciously 
>> concealed by those of us aware of the product flaws, when we post "bad 
>> news" would do what we do without being paid for it? 
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>   

-- 

 
Keith Krebs

"Just some guy," caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and  the Multiverse's largest Canon printer User  Community at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canon-printers
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

 

****************************************************************
CONFIDENTIALITY & COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
This e-mail message, including attachments and contents, is © Copyright, 
Keith Krebs, 2001-2006, All Rights Reserved. It is expressly for the 
sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Absent the express written authorization of the 
author, any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, transfer, or 
distribution is explicitly prohibited and taken at your own risk. If you 
are not, or are unsure whether you are, the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of the original 
message. Violations will be prosecuted to the FULL extent allowed under 
applicable civil and criminal law. Imagery published or distributed in 
violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image 
liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright 
violation penalties.

POV IMage Service Banner
****************************************************************
{ The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Colleagues,

I'd hope we can return to the topic of digital black and white 
printing, along with limited discussion of associated topics such as 
scanning, profiles, conversions, etc.  This is a list to share 
experiences, ask and answer questions, support each other.  It's not 
a debating platform.

No -- not every topic interests me.  Of course not.  I've got strong 
fingers, that can push the delete key.  But this lengthy back and 
forth about a most ancillary topic is a complete diversion from what 
the list is supposed to be about.

Can we talk printing?


Arthur

	A r t h u r  .  F i n k  .  P h o t o g r a p h y
	-------------------------------------------------
	Ten New Island Avenue           land 207.766.5722
	Peaks Island, Maine 04108       cell 207.615.5722
	www.arthurfinkphoto.com    af@...

	More dance images  www.f64gallery.com/arthur.html

Superb!  But can we get back on point.  I¹m sure those with issues with
Adobe can make their way to the Adobe forums where there is likely a more
concentrated bunch of people interested in these issues.  Thanks for the
heads-up, but it¹s time to move on.

From: "Editor P.O.V. Image Service" <editor@...>
Organization: Persistence of Vision Image Service
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 12:53:21 -0400
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Photoshop CS3  Win distortion w/unequal
horizontal and veritcal printing re

 
 
 

 From the group rules of this forum Gary:

1)  "Open and candid discussion is encouraged. However, courtesy must
prevail and it is expected that exchanges should not deteriorate into
personal insults, harassment, threats, etc. Beyond these obvious
breaches of civilized behavior, users who are persistently hostile,
aggressive or argumentative will be considered to be in violation of the
rules and spirit of this forum. "

You have a history on this list of appointing yourself the list-cop AND
attacking longterm members/contributors of the digital imaging
community.  I'll simply suggest that if you intend to take that role on,
you might want to read the rules and understand the difference between
debate and ad hominem personal attack.

You also have a history of personally attacking people on this list when
their opinions don't support your preconceptions. I'll remind you here
of your attack on Dave Tobie in January:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/8340
4

or your ad-hominem attack in February of a poster's use of the word
"color" to describe some online B&W images:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/8356
7

or another ad hominem attack by you (this one against formal
recognition/certification):
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/7883
8

or one on another poster's credibility, simply because she asked questions:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/7451
4

or another, ad hominem attack upon someone's photographic work/credentials:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/6843
0

or one on the need for technical/scientific discussions on this list:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/7337
2

Of course, you have also posted to the list how much of the technical
side you've learned from it over the years...

..and used to even ask for technical explanations, such as why one might
prefer 16bit to 8bit image processing.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/6652
2

You came to this list a scant two years ago using a 1280 for B&W and
were generally exceedingly polite throughout until early October of 2005
(I gotta wonder what changed your attitude towards life and people
around then) .

It seems, since then, you have a clear trend of onliest issues with
individuals or systems that have formal certification of authority, or
even whom the community has recognized as authorities... I won't posit
why that might be onliest, but feel free to email me offlist if you want
some constructive suggestions as to why that might be and how to
overcome such "issues."

2)  "Please only post messages and questions relating to making B&W
(monochrome) prints using digital techniques. This may sound rather
narrow but it can be very broad since it is impossible to discuss final
output without considering input in great detail. The discussion will
include all aspects of photography from image capture through final
print, but posters should make an effort to relate their posts to the
ultimate production of B&W prints."

I'm just guessing, but I think Photoshop has a MUCH more direct relation
to Digital B&W than, OH, I dunno, someone's personal history as a
sign-maker: 
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/8340
1
or
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/7645
3

Apparently, you agree, since you posted some Photoshop CS3 Beta
installation info yourself:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/8356
8

If you want to continue to engage in personal attack, feel free to mail
me offlist - onliest is not the place for it (if you think thank-yous
don't belong onliest, then personal attacks certainly don't) .

I've been an active listmember since Martin established this list, and
YOU are not about to harass me into shutting up or leaving a list.

Try being polite, even if you just hate the "idea"of  one listmember
thanking another onliest:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/7758
0
or
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/6986
5

Got it?

For my part, you can now post all you want about me Gary. I've had my
say in response. For now, I'll simply take YOUR advice regarding posters
who thrive on personal negativity and ignore any personal attack posts
by you: in the hopes that you'll simply go away.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/6849
4



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<(as Gary Brown has tended to do
<for the last 18 months)

You actually spent the time to look up my messages from the last 18 months. 
Wow.....You really spent all that time. I guess what they say in eastern 
philosophy is true. When you are truly angry at someone, you yield control 
to them and why would you want to do that to someone you truly dislike.  For 
the last time......it is not the matter, its the manner.

Gary