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Need advice

2011-04-23 by my88keyz

I recently purchased what I thought was a BRAND NEW Disklavier grand piano from a local dealer.  However, today I discovered an old receipt in the piano's manual from TWO years ago.  The receipt was for the exact same piano that I purchased, so obviously the piano was USED -- worse yet, I actually paid MORE for the piano than the previous buyer.

Is this a common practice among Yamaha dealers -- to resell old pianos as NEW?  I certainly hope it's not common.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do?  Should I require a new piano?  Do I have any legal remedy?

(My receipt actually states "NEW" on it.)

Thanks,
Iggy

the older i get, the more i hate being cheated and the more time i spend in making things right. too many people think it is not worth the trouble and the thieves are winning.

first, make sure that the receipt is for the exact same piano. hopefully it lists the serial number. if this is the case, you have an ironclad case. if the old receipt does not specifically list the serial number your case will not be as strong and you may have a tougher negotiation.

in most states, it is against the law (and a fairly serious offense) to sell used items as new. if you can prove that the piano was previously sold, you certainly have a case for a full refund and probably punitive damages as well. if i were sold a used piano as new, i would raise hell demanding a full refund at minimum and making all sorts of additional threats which i would follow through on.

if you are happy with the piano you should at least negotiate a better price and get a refund. Disklaviers loose value more than straight pianos because the technology and features change. think of it as a combination piano / computer. you wouldn't buy a three year old computer and expect to pay anything close to the new price.

keep us informed about this dealer and if you do have proof that you were cheated, please let everyone know who they are. before publicly accusing someone of this sort of activity, make sure you are correct and give them an opportunity to explain the discrepancy in some way that you might not have considered.

On 4/23/2011 10:13 AM, my88keyz wrote:

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I recently purchased what I thought was a BRAND NEW Disklavier grand piano from a local dealer. However, today I discovered an old receipt in the piano's manual from TWO years ago. The receipt was for the exact same piano that I purchased, so obviously the piano was USED -- worse yet, I actually paid MORE for the piano than the previous buyer.

Is this a common practice among Yamaha dealers -- to resell old pianos as NEW? I certainly hope it's not common.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Should I require a new piano? Do I have any legal remedy?

(My receipt actually states "NEW" on it.)

Thanks,
Iggy

-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

Re: [disklavier] Need advice

2011-04-23 by Business Account

Wow... Does it have serial number that is the same as your on the receipt you found? I would ask an attorney; then take it to Yamaha directly and tell them they need to provide a \u201cnew\u201d piano. They can bring pressure to the dealer.

That is crazy... Who is the dealer?

Jim

On 4/23/11 10:13 AM, "my88keyz" <iggy@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

I recently purchased what I thought was a BRAND NEW Disklavier grand piano from a local dealer. However, today I discovered an old receipt in the piano's manual from TWO years ago. The receipt was for the exact same piano that I purchased, so obviously the piano was USED -- worse yet, I actually paid MORE for the piano than the previous buyer.

Is this a common practice among Yamaha dealers -- to resell old pianos as NEW? I certainly hope it's not common.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Should I require a new piano? Do I have any legal remedy?

(My receipt actually states "NEW"; on it.)

Thanks,
Iggy

--
Jim Hubbard
Consulting
305 Shirley Blvd
Arcata, CA. 95521
707 845-0096

P Please consider the environment before printing this email

Re: Need advice

2011-04-23 by PaleAliens

The dealer will know it has breached a contract by indicating the piano was sold NEW to you, should be highly embarrassed, and within reason should be willing to make amends.   My suggestion would be to ask the dealer to correct its mistake by refunding you the difference between the two amounts paid (assuming its material), yet warranty as of the date of your purchase. In this way, no one loses all the time in moving pianos.  If the dealer does not want to work with you, you could return it, demand a full refund and be back to square one with no piano. You could request a new piano, but this is a hassle if there is nothing wrong with the one you liked enoough to buy.  Tn the unlikely event the dealer refuses all of these options, you would have to sue for breach of contract seeking a full refund and costs.  If you are unlucky enough to end up in court, don't expect "damages" over this kind of dispute. 

Rich


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "my88keyz" <iggy@...> wrote:

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>
> I recently purchased what I thought was a BRAND NEW Disklavier grand piano from a local dealer.  However, today I discovered an old receipt in the piano's manual from TWO years ago.  The receipt was for the exact same piano that I purchased, so obviously the piano was USED -- worse yet, I actually paid MORE for the piano than the previous buyer.
> 
> Is this a common practice among Yamaha dealers -- to resell old pianos as NEW?  I certainly hope it's not common.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do?  Should I require a new piano?  Do I have any legal remedy?
> 
> (My receipt actually states "NEW" on it.)
> 
> Thanks,
> Iggy
>

Re: [disklavier] Need advice

2011-04-23 by Spencer chase

just noticed another important point. the original e-mail said "I recently purchased what I thought was a BRAND NEW Disklavier grand piano..." Were you actually told it was new, does your new receipt say it is new? if you are buying from a dealer it is a common assumption that it is new and the dealer should tell you if it is not new. it will be more difficult to prove a case on the basis of what you were told. if your receipt says it is new and it isn't you have a good case but if it does not mention condition it may vary a lot from state to state. hopefully the receipt does not say it is used. were you given a full mfg. warrantee? if so, this implies that it is new?

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On 4/23/2011 12:34 PM, Business Account wrote:

Wow... Does it have serial number that is the same as your on the receipt you found? I would ask an attorney; then take it to Yamaha directly and tell them they need to provide a \u201cnew\u201d piano. They can bring pressure to the dealer.

That is crazy... Who is the dealer?

Jim

On 4/23/11 10:13 AM, "my88keyz" <iggy@...> wrote:

I recently purchased what I thought was a BRAND NEW Disklavier grand piano from a local dealer. However, today I discovered an old receipt in the piano's manual from TWO years ago. The receipt was for the exact same piano that I purchased, so obviously the piano was USED -- worse yet, I actually paid MORE for the piano than the previous buyer.

Is this a common practice among Yamaha dealers -- to resell old pianos as NEW? I certainly hope it's not common.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Should I require a new piano? Do I have any legal remedy?

(My receipt actually states "NEW" on it.)

Thanks,
Iggy

--
Jim Hubbard
Consulting
305 Shirley Blvd
Arcata, CA. 95521
707 845-0096

P Please consider the environment before printing this email

-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

Re: Need advice

2011-04-23 by my88keyz

I really do appreciate all the feedback, and if anyone else has ideas, please share.  My receipt definitely says "NEW", and so does the previous owner's receipt.  This particular dealer seems to have a policy of not writing the S/N on the receipt -- neither receipt has an S/N (except that I actually wrote mine in after it was delivered.)  The lack of S/N tracking on receipts seemed sloppy to me, but now seems to be indicative of a shady practice of selling used things for new.

I don't want to mention the dealer until I give them a chance to make things right.  I am enjoying the instrument, but I really feel cheated by the transaction.  It also explains the odd scratches and slight damage on the shoulder of one of the legs.

Great point about contacting Yamaha -- I hadn't considered that option.

Also, excellent point about the higher rate of depreciation on Disklaviers due to the integration of electronics, although I would hope that the Disklavier would always be worth at least the same as a similar non-Disklavier model of the same vintage.

Thanks,
Iggy

Re: [disklavier] Re: Need advice

2011-04-24 by Spencer chase

no SN on the receipt certainly seems suspicious. did you get a warranty and did you try to register it? sound like contacting Yamaha is a good idea. they should be able to tell you what the dealer should do and maybe tell you if the piano was sold and registered before.

when you contact the dealer i bet they will say something like the following: "You must have gotten a manual from a different piano, one that was used. We have such a hard time keeping track of the paperwork." and without a SN on the invoice ...

was the piano that you got, on display on the floor? do you remember the dealer saying anything about it such as that they just got it in or anything else as part of the sales pitch? the reason i am asking is that it is a good idea to write down everything you can remember before you contact them again as you may get confused about what they said one time and the next. this is especially true when dealing with liars.

someone else on the list probably knows but there may be a way to interrogate the electronics on the DKV system to get the number of hours it was played. this will not prove anything but can be additional information. it can be useful in negotiation to have as much information as possible and to let the other party know that you have evidence and intend to win.

check the laws in your state regarding the sale of and notification requirements for used items. some states are very tough on this sort of thing. if you are in one of these states, a threat of legal action might help your case. and do make these people squirm if they really did cheat you.

On 4/23/2011 3:15 PM, my88keyz wrote:

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I really do appreciate all the feedback, and if anyone else has ideas, please share. My receipt definitely says "NEW", and so does the previous owner's receipt. This particular dealer seems to have a policy of not writing the S/N on the receipt -- neither receipt has an S/N (except that I actually wrote mine in after it was delivered.) The lack of S/N tracking on receipts seemed sloppy to me, but now seems to be indicative of a shady practice of selling used things for new.

I don't want to mention the dealer until I give them a chance to make things right. I am enjoying the instrument, but I really feel cheated by the transaction. It also explains the odd scratches and slight damage on the shoulder of one of the legs.

Great point about contacting Yamaha -- I hadn't considered that option.

Also, excellent point about the higher rate of depreciation on Disklaviers due to the integration of electronics, although I would hope that the Disklavier would always be worth at least the same as a similar non-Disklavier model of the same vintage.

Thanks,
Iggy

-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

Re: Need advice

2011-04-24 by Jimbo

The first step should be to contact Yamaha. They would have the record of what dealer purchased the piano and when. It's possible the same dealer sold the piano twice. It's also possible they did not get your piano from Yamaha. I would let Yamaha sort things out. Make sure of what your Warranty is with Yamaha. They have a lot of control over their dealers. I would also have a good piano tech, not associated with the dealer, go over the piano for any problems. If the receipt is in fact for the same piano, it may be even older than 2 years. The important fact is that your receipt says the piano is NEW. I would avoid the dealer until you have all of the information. Then go get 'em if you have a strong case. Jim