EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

> On a fine day, 13-08-2003, teddybut wrote:
> 
>> can you change the default controller mappings in the EXS? I have a
>> controller keyboard and I want my default mappings to save the setup for my
>> particular keyboard. It's a lot to setup everytime you open a new
>> instrument.
>> 
>> or is there a way to copy and paste controller mappings from instrument to
>> instrument?
> 
> I suppose you're talking about the modulation matrix...

yes sir...

> As a workaround I guess you could always create a small automation
> sequence that sets up the mod-matrix like you want it. Then when
> creating a new EXS track, just put this sequence on it, play it back,
> and you're done.
> 
> -- 
> Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l

that sounds like an interesting thing but wouldn't the instrument be
included in that setting? it is here in 6.1.1.

My workaround was to
1) setup the matrix how I want it and "save setting to instrument" in the
options menu, then go to the next instrument, delete it's setting in the
options menu (if it has any, if it doesn't, the matrix settings get carried
over and you can just save them to the that instrument),
2) go back to the instrument with the right matrix setup,
3) go back to the instrument that I just deleted the settings in. then the
matrix gets carried over since there's no saved setting.
4) save the matrix settings in the that instrument.

Kind of a pain in the butt to do to 30,000 sampler instruments, but last
night I did about 300 of them in about an hour.

the easiest way was to go through and just delete many settings first, go
back to the one with the right setup, then keep hitting next, they carry
over and you save the settings to each instrument. no key command for saving
or deleting though. my hand gets tired from the mouse in the options menu.

the project manager should handle this in bulk, or there should just be a
way to save your own default settings. wouldn't it be nice?

teddybut

On a fine day, 14-08-2003, teddybut wrote:

>  > On a fine day, 13-08-2003, teddybut wrote:
>>
>>>  can you change the default controller mappings in the EXS? I have a
>>>  controller keyboard and I want my default mappings to save the setup for my
>>>  particular keyboard. It's a lot to setup everytime you open a new
>>>  instrument.
>>>
>>>  or is there a way to copy and paste controller mappings from instrument to
>>>  instrument?
>>
>>  I suppose you're talking about the modulation matrix...
>
>yes sir...
>
>>  As a workaround I guess you could always create a small automation
>>  sequence that sets up the mod-matrix like you want it. Then when
>>  creating a new EXS track, just put this sequence on it, play it back,
>  > and you're done.
>
>that sounds like an interesting thing but wouldn't the instrument be
>included in that setting? it is here in 6.1.1.

It might be, when you load a 'setting' from the settings menu (which 
is the part from my msg you deleted, but still seem to respond to :). 
The above quote however simply suggest to send th EXS a bunch of 
parameter changes thru automation -- which of course would not load 
an instrument at all.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra 
<h@k...> wrote:
> On a fine day, 14-08-2003, teddybut wrote:
> 
> >  > On a fine day, 13-08-2003, teddybut wrote:
> >>
> >>>  can you change the default controller mappings in the 
EXS? I have a
> >>>  controller keyboard and I want my default mappings to 
save the setup for my
> >>>  particular keyboard. It's a lot to setup everytime you open a 
new
> >>>  instrument.
> >>>
> >>>  or is there a way to copy and paste controller mappings 
from instrument to
> >>>  instrument?
> >>
> >>  I suppose you're talking about the modulation matrix...
> >
> >yes sir...

I'm somewhat new to Logic but there is probably a way to do this 
using transformers in the Environment (rather than editing the 
parameters in the EXS). ie  convert (using a transformer(s)) 
controller #x to #y. You can also make a switch in the env. to turn 
the transformer on and off.  Just a thought.

Steve

> send the EXS a bunch of
> parameter changes thru automation -- which of course would not load
> an instrument at all.
> 
> -- 
> Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

interesting. I'll try it now that my power is back on...

teddybut

> As a workaround I guess you could always create a small automation
> sequence that sets up the mod-matrix like you want it. Then when
> creating a new EXS track, just put this sequence on it, play it back,
> and you're done.
> 
> -- 
> Hendrik Jan Veenstra

Thanks for you input Hendrik,

good idea, but...
that works as long as there is something assigned to the matrix source and
destination before you send the automation. If nothing was assigned, like in
matrix #3-#10 in the default matrix settings, nothing will happen.
Apparently it can only switch to something else if there was something there
before.

strange, but true. oh well, foiled again.

teddybut

>> send the EXS a bunch of
>> parameter changes thru automation -- which of course would not load
>> an instrument at all.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
>> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/
> 
> interesting. I'll try it now that my power is back on...
> 
> teddybut

doesn't work at all actually.

teddy

On a fine day, 15-08-2003, teddybut wrote:

>  > As a workaround I guess you could always create a small automation
>  > sequence that sets up the mod-matrix like you want it. Then when
>>  creating a new EXS track, just put this sequence on it, play it back,
>  > and you're done.
>
>good idea, but...
>that works as long as there is something assigned to the matrix source and
>destination before you send the automation. If nothing was assigned, like in
>matrix #3-#10 in the default matrix settings, nothing will happen.
>Apparently it can only switch to something else if there was something there
>before.

Hmmm... sh**...  I'd hoped/expected that you could automate 
_anything_, including assignment of src/dst.  But I guess that's not 
true then.  Bugger.  Thanks for trying this out btw.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

HJV wrote:
>>> As a workaround I guess you could always create a small automation
>>> sequence that sets up the mod-matrix like you want it. Then when
>>> creating a new EXS track, just put this sequence on it, play it back,
>>> and you're done.

teddybut wrote: 
>> good idea, but...
>> that works as long as there is something assigned to the matrix source and
>> destination before you send the automation. If nothing was assigned, like in
>> matrix #3-#10 in the default matrix settings, nothing will happen.
>> Apparently it can only switch to something else if there was something there
>> before.

HJV wrote:
> Hmmm... sh**...  I'd hoped/expected that you could automate
> _anything_, including assignment of src/dst.  But I guess that's not
> true then.  Bugger.  Thanks for trying this out btw.
>
> Hendrik Jan Veenstra

you would think it'd be ok since it's in the list, right? strange.
It worked very intermittently, sometimes perfect, sometimes no response. I
wasn't able to see any conditions that enabled it to work consistently. i
worked on it for a long time too, like 4 hours.

can you try and see what you results are? I'd be interested.

teddybut

On a fine day, 16-08-2003, teddybut wrote:

>you would think it'd be ok since it's in the list, right? strange.
>It worked very intermittently, sometimes perfect, sometimes no response. I
>wasn't able to see any conditions that enabled it to work consistently. i
>worked on it for a long time too, like 4 hours.
>
>can you try and see what you results are? I'd be interested.

I just tried and it seems to work flawlessly.  Empty song, put an EXS 
on the 1st track, automate various mod-matrix parameters (including 
activating/deactivating them, adjusting the "amount" and "via" 
sliders, etc).  Put EXS in 'Read' mode: plays back fine.

Now create a new empty sequence underneath _all_ the track automation 
data (in my case: a 8-bar sequence).  With the track selected, pick 
"move all track automation data to object" from the Options > Track 
Automation menu.  This gives an object with all the proper Fader 
events in place.
Create a new track with a new EXS instance (doesn't have to be in 
Read mode now since we're dealing with Object Automation).  Move the 
object you just created to the new EXS.  Hit play: plays back fine.

So...  I don't know what went wrong at your side of the planet, but 
over here my original suggestion seems to work rather well...  It 
could be though that I just didn't happen to run into the conditions 
that caused it to fail on your setup (whatever they may be).

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

> On a fine day, 16-08-2003, teddybut wrote:
> 
>> you would think it'd be ok since it's in the list, right? strange.
>> It worked very intermittently, sometimes perfect, sometimes no response. I
>> wasn't able to see any conditions that enabled it to work consistently. i
>> worked on it for a long time too, like 4 hours.
>> 
>> can you try and see what you results are? I'd be interested.
> 
> I just tried and it seems to work flawlessly.  Empty song, put an EXS
> on the 1st track, automate various mod-matrix parameters (including
> activating/deactivating them, adjusting the "amount" and "via"
> sliders, etc).  Put EXS in 'Read' mode: plays back fine.
> 
> Now create a new empty sequence underneath _all_ the track automation
> data (in my case: a 8-bar sequence).  With the track selected, pick
> "move all track automation data to object" from the Options > Track
> Automation menu.  This gives an object with all the proper Fader
> events in place.
> Create a new track with a new EXS instance (doesn't have to be in
> Read mode now since we're dealing with Object Automation).  Move the
> object you just created to the new EXS.  Hit play: plays back fine.
> 
> So...  I don't know what went wrong at your side of the planet, but
> over here my original suggestion seems to work rather well...  It
> could be though that I just didn't happen to run into the conditions
> that caused it to fail on your setup (whatever they may be).
> 
> -- 
> Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
> Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Strange. When I try to automate that stuff by moving the matrix settings
nothing gets recorded. Latch, Touch, Write, doesn't matter. Who knows why?
ESB??? 

Anyway, I just moved the controllers to where I wanted them in the track
automation view. In the process I discovered, at least on my setup, that
there has to be something on the downbeat and then it has to change to the
desired parameter for the automation to work. If I delete the first node (is
that the correct terminology?) that's on the downbeat, nothing happens. If I
leave it there, all is well. That must have been why I had inconsistent
results before. I wanted to keep it clean by deleting the first node.
nodule? knode? haha

The tip about moving the track automation to an object is very much
appreciated. Now I can mute that and put it in my Autoload for future setup
changes. Pretty cool. Thanks HJV.

teddybut

On a fine day, 17-08-2003, teddybut wrote:

>  > I just tried and it seems to work flawlessly.  Empty song, put an EXS
>>  on the 1st track, automate various mod-matrix parameters (including
>>  activating/deactivating them, adjusting the "amount" and "via"
>  > sliders, etc).  Put EXS in 'Read' mode: plays back fine.
>[...]
>
>Strange. When I try to automate that stuff by moving the matrix settings
>nothing gets recorded. Latch, Touch, Write, doesn't matter. Who knows why?
>ESB???

Ehrm... I didn't automate by moving the EXS faders, but by 
hyperdrawing in Arrange.  Still shouldn't make a difference though.

<...>  Just tried myself, manipulating the EXS controls directly (EXS 
in Touch mode) and here's what happens:

Drag a 'Via' slider in the mod-matrix: gets recorded as expected. 
This is not a surprise: sliders in general are "problem free" 
controls that behave as expected.  It's the popups that worry me. 
Hence the following:

Change a Src or Dst parameter: the very 1st node of the automation 
track gets changed, regardless of where Logic is playing.  I.e. have 
Logic play, change the 'Dest' from Sample Start to e.g. Volume when 
you're at bar 4, and the automation shows 'Volume' as the node at bar 
1, tick 1 (which formerly was Sample Start).  No data at bar 4 gets 
recorded.

This last behaviour is weird and inconsistent with how Autoamtion is 
supposed to work imo.  If you 'hand draw' an automation node at bar 
4, it gets played back fine, and everything works as expected.  Save 
song, close, reopen: the stuff is still there and still works.

Hand-drawing a second node and deleting the very first one does no 
harm: the 2nd node (now 1st :) gets played back fine.

Another weird one: draw node at bar 4, delete node at bar 1, draw 
node at bar 5: a new node at bar 1 is automatically created.  In 
fact, no matter what you do, as soon as you draw or delete a new node 
after you've deleted the bar-1-node, the initial node at bar 1 is 
recreated.  Heck, even dragging the bar-4 node up or down recreates 
the bar-1 node.

>Anyway, I just moved the controllers to where I wanted them in the track
>automation view. In the process I discovered, at least on my setup, that
>there has to be something on the downbeat and then it has to change to the
>desired parameter for the automation to work.

I guess by 'downbeat' you mean bar 1, tick 1, right?  See above: I 
can delete this one, but Logic insist on recreating it as soon as you 
do anything to the track automation.

>The tip about moving the track automation to an object is very much
>appreciated. Now I can mute that and put it in my Autoload for future setup
>changes. Pretty cool. Thanks HJV.

You're welcome.  Glad you got it working somehow.  And yes, putting 
the stuff in an object is way handier in cases like this, since it 
allows you to simply drag the sequence to whichever EXS instance you 
might happen to have.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

> On a fine day, 17-08-2003, HJV wrote:

> I didn't automate by moving the EXS faders, but by
> hyperdrawing in Arrange.  Still shouldn't make a difference though.
> 
> <...>  Just tried myself, manipulating the EXS controls directly (EXS
> in Touch mode) and here's what happens:
> 
> Drag a 'Via' slider in the mod-matrix: gets recorded as expected.
> This is not a surprise: sliders in general are "problem free"
> controls that behave as expected.  It's the popups that worry me.
> Hence the following:
> 
> Change a Src or Dst parameter: the very 1st node of the automation
> track gets changed, regardless of where Logic is playing.  I.e. have
> Logic play, change the 'Dest' from Sample Start to e.g. Volume when
> you're at bar 4, and the automation shows 'Volume' as the node at bar
> 1, tick 1 (which formerly was Sample Start).  No data at bar 4 gets
> recorded.
> 
> This last behaviour is weird and inconsistent with how Autoamtion is
> supposed to work imo.  If you 'hand draw' an automation node at bar
> 4, it gets played back fine, and everything works as expected.  Save
> song, close, reopen: the stuff is still there and still works.
> 
> Hand-drawing a second node and deleting the very first one does no
> harm: the 2nd node (now 1st :) gets played back fine.
> 
> Another weird one: draw node at bar 4, delete node at bar 1, draw
> node at bar 5: a new node at bar 1 is automatically created.  In
> fact, no matter what you do, as soon as you draw or delete a new node
> after you've deleted the bar-1-node, the initial node at bar 1 is
> recreated.  Heck, even dragging the bar-4 node up or down recreates
> the bar-1 node.

aha, now it's all starting to make sense. To me, automating means you are
moving the controls and recording the automation. Hyper drawing is Hyper
drawing. Ah, modern terminology.

We, therefore, have the same results.

My problem before was because I would set the nodes in hyperdraw, and then I
would go into the Event editor and erase the nodes on the downbeats. that
created the strange behavior for me. If I don't do that the automation plays
back correctly.

So my doctor said, "don't do that"
> 
>> Anyway, I just moved the controllers to where I wanted them in the track
>> automation view. In the process I discovered, at least on my setup, that
>> there has to be something on the downbeat and then it has to change to the
>> desired parameter for the automation to work.
> 
> I guess by 'downbeat' you mean bar 1, tick 1, right?

yes, old school musician terminology.
2, 3, 4, BOOM, it's a downbeat.

>  See above: I 
> can delete this one, but Logic insist on recreating it as soon as you
> do anything to the track automation.

yup, same here. strange. I guess SOMETHING has to be there or the logic god
doesn't smile.
> 
>> The tip about moving the track automation to an object is very much
>> appreciated. Now I can mute that and put it in my Autoload for future setup
>> changes. Pretty cool. Thanks HJV.
> 
> You're welcome.  Glad you got it working somehow.  And yes, putting
> the stuff in an object is way handier in cases like this, since it
> allows you to simply drag the sequence to whichever EXS instance you
> might happen to have.

yup, agreed. thanks again for helping me out with this.

teddybut

On a fine day, 18-08-2003, teddybut wrote:

>  > On a fine day, 17-08-2003, HJV wrote:
>
>  > I didn't automate by moving the EXS faders, but by
>  > hyperdrawing in Arrange.  Still shouldn't make a difference though.
>[...]
>
>aha, now it's all starting to make sense. To me, automating means you are
>moving the controls and recording the automation. Hyper drawing is Hyper
>drawing. Ah, modern terminology.

:-)  Well, to me automating is making the software do something 
automatically that I'd otherwise have to do by hand.  So that 
includes both 'turning dials' and 'hyperdrawing'.

>We, therefore, have the same results.

Yup.

>  > I guess by 'downbeat' you mean bar 1, tick 1, right?
>
>yes, old school musician terminology.
>2, 3, 4, BOOM, it's a downbeat.

Confusing imo, as every bar has a downbeat, and you specifically 
meant the downbeat of bar 1.  'Bar 1 tick 1' is less ambiguous.  But 
who cares? :-)

>  >  See above: I
>>  can delete this one, but Logic insist on recreating it as soon as you
>>  do anything to the track automation.
>
>yup, same here. strange. I guess SOMETHING has to be there or the logic god
>doesn't smile.

Weird indeed, esp. since this is the 1st time I encounter a parameter 
that _has_ to have an automation event at the very 1sttick of the 
song.

Anyway, glad we got this one sorted out alright.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Hendrik Jan Veenstra 
<h@k...> wrote:
> On a fine day, 18-08-2003, teddybut wrote:
> 
> >  > On a fine day, 17-08-2003, HJV wrote:
> >
> >  > I didn't automate by moving the EXS faders, but by
> >  > hyperdrawing in Arrange.  Still shouldn't make a difference 
though.
> >[...]
> >
> >aha, now it's all starting to make sense. To me, automating 
means you are
> >moving the controls and recording the automation. Hyper 
drawing is Hyper
> >drawing. Ah, modern terminology.
> 
> :-)  Well, to me automating is making the software do 
something 
> automatically that I'd otherwise have to do by hand.  So that 
> includes both 'turning dials' and 'hyperdrawing'.

well ladida for us! hahahaha
I'll give you that one. But it is ambiguous in this context where it 
actually matters.
Apparently you are not into ambiguous-ness, according to the 
below....

> >  > I guess by 'downbeat' you mean bar 1, tick 1, right?
> >
> >yes, old school musician terminology.
> >2, 3, 4, BOOM, it's a downbeat.
> 
> Confusing imo, as every bar has a downbeat, and you 
specifically 
> meant the downbeat of bar 1.  'Bar 1 tick 1' is less ambiguous. 
 But 
> who cares? :-)

exactly, who cares indeed! However, in my language (American 
rock/jazz musician semi English) we can use the word 
"downbeat" for both of those things and because of the context 
we understand whassup. i.e. if i say to my musician friend, "I'm 
going to miss the downbeat of the gig". I mean that I will miss 
the first downbeat of the gig, not every downbeat of every bar. If I 
say, "could we hit the downbeat harder when we get to the 
chorus?" I obviously mean just in that spot, not necesarrily at the 
beginning of the song. there you go, stupid English 101... 
hahaha...

> Weird indeed, esp. since this is the 1st time I encounter a 
parameter 
> that _has_ to have an automation event at the very 1sttick of the 
> song.

I really don't understand that automation behavior, but I can live 
with the consequences.
> 
> Anyway, glad we got this one sorted out alright.
 
me too, whew... thanks for your in depth help.

teddybut