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Xpander midi overflow mode available?

Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-19 by Bakis Sirros

hi list,

let's say you have two Xpanders midied together (midi out from one to midi in of the second).
does the Xpander support a 'midi overflow' mode, so you could play two Xpanders as one 12-voice machine?

thanks in advance for your help!

best regards, :-)
Bakis.

Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. facebook. com/ pages/Parallel-Worlds/192093934136476
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. vu-us. com

Re: Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-19 by Tony Cappellini

>>let's say you have two Xpanders midied together (midi out from one to midi in of the second).
>>does the Xpander support a 'midi overflow' mode, so you could play two Xpanders as one 12-voice machine?

I don't think it does this natively, which is a shame since that function IS supported in the Matrix 1000.

You could probably implement it easily with Midiox, Bomes (OSX) or a similar midi mapping software, but then are restricted
to needing a laptop.

Re: [xpantastic] Re: Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-19 by Bakis Sirros

thanks for the useful info Tony!

 
Bakis Sirros


________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 From: Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...>
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:47 AM
Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Xpander midi overflow mode available?
 

  
>>let's say you have two Xpanders midied together (midi out from one to midi in of the second).
>>does the Xpander support a 'midi overflow' mode, so you could play two Xpanders as one 12-voice machine?
I don't think it does this natively, which is a shame since that function IS supported in the Matrix 1000.

You could probably implement it easily with Midiox, Bomes (OSX) or a similar midi mapping software, but then are restricted
to needing a laptop.

Re: Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-19 by Tony Cappellini

Wait a sec-

I'm pretty sure the Xp doesn't support this natively- but

If you're KB controller is flexible enough, you can have 1 Xpander configured respond on one channel (or 6),
and the other Xpander respond on another channel (or 6 others).

The Xp allows you to map key ranges into zones- where each zone can be controlled by a specific channel.
I think you should be able to setup both Xpanders to respond to different key ranges coming from the master keyboard.

This probably isn't the ideal situation, but it's better than having to be tied to a laptop & midi mapping software.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...>; wrote:
>>let's say you have two Xpanders midied together (midi out from one to midi in of the second).
>>does the Xpander support a 'midi overflow' mode, so you could play two Xpanders as one 12-voice machine?

I don't think it does this natively, which is a shame since that function IS supported in the Matrix 1000.

You could probably implement it easily with Midiox, Bomes (OSX) or a similar midi mapping software, but then are restricted
to needing a laptop.


Re: [xpantastic] Re: Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-19 by Bakis Sirros

so, basically, you need a midi controller keyboard, and two xpanders set to even the same midi channel, but, via their zones capability, to make them respond to only a part of the keyboard range, right? so you have half of the keys to xpander one and half of the keys to xpander two...


 
Bakis Sirros


________________________________
 From: Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...>
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 1:58 AM
Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Xpander midi overflow mode available?
 

  
Wait a sec-

I'm pretty sure the Xp doesn't support this natively- but

If you're KB controller is flexible enough, you can have 1 Xpander configured respond on one channel (or 6),
and the other Xpander respond on another channel (or 6 others).

The Xp allows you to map key ranges into zones- where each zone can be controlled by a specific channel.
I think you should be able to setup both Xpanders to respond to different key ranges coming from the master keyboard.

This probably isn't the ideal situation, but it's better than having to be tied to a laptop & midi mapping software.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> wrote:

>>let's say you have two Xpanders midied together (midi out from one to midi in of the second).
>>>does the Xpander support a 'midi overflow' mode, so you could play two Xpanders as one 12-voice machine?
>I don't think it does this natively, which is a shame since that function IS supported in the Matrix 1000.
>
>You could probably implement it easily with Midiox, Bomes (OSX) or a similar midi mapping software, but then are restricted
>to needing a laptop.
>
>

Re: [xpantastic] Re: Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-19 by Tony Cappellini


>>so, basically, you need a midi controller keyboard, and two xpanders set to even the same midi channel, but, via their zones capability, to make them respond to only a part of the keyboard range, right? so you have half of the keys to xpander one and half of >>the keys to xpander two...

>>even the same midi channel
They don't need to be set to the same channel- I think you would end up with doubled notes- on each box. As I understand it - you would like to have 6 different notes on each box, where each box is *probably* (but not necessarily) using the
same patch.

That is what I'm thinking. However, I'm at work and not in front of the Xpander, so I can't verify this easily.

I hope others will jump in with their thoughts shortly.

>>you need a midi controller keyboard
If you're using your Xpanders with Ableton or similar software, remapping may even be easier.


As an aside- if you get this working the way you want, AND you are using the same patches on each Xpander..

When Echo is enabled, whatever knobs you change on one box get echoed to the other.
If you change a patch on one box, the patch will also change on the other box.

Be careful so you don't get a midi loop going on though. It will drive you mad.


Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by PeWe


>>>

Am 20.04.2012 00:37, schrieb Bakis Sirros:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
\ufffd
hi list,

let's say you have two Xpanders midied together (midi out from one to midi in of the second).
does the Xpander support a 'midi overflow' mode, so you could play two Xpanders as one 12-voice machine?

NO !!!


thanks in advance for your help!

There\ufffds no help possible except a firmware/OS hack or a ext. hardware device which doesn\ufffdt exist AFAIK.

The Xpander MIDI Out set to "MIDI ECHO" just echoes what comes in at it\ufffds MIDI Input.

A 2nd Xpander receiving MIDI info from the 1st Xpander\ufffds MIDI Out (in MIDI Echo Mode) receives the SAME notes, controller data and sysex.
That way, it will be 2 MIDI layered 6-voice Xpanders in general,- not discussing the common zoning features and combinations w/ 2 XPanders linked via MIDI here.

To make 2 6-voice Xpanders a 12-voice Xpander, in theory there would be 2 ways:

MIDI spill-over or recognition and MIDI filtering of odd and even MIDI note numbers.
Some 19" MIDI tone generators use the MIDI note numbers.

Recognition of odd and even MIDI note numbers would work on the same MIDI channel in single-path mode and on the same MIDI channels in multi-patch mode, the zones set up exactly the same.
That would be a functionality, we\ufffdd wish to have in the Xpander itself.

To be precise, Xpander #1 plays the even MIDI note numbers and Xpander #2 the odd MIDI note numbers.

IMO, it would be the more interesting method w/ 2 Xpanders because we also deal w/ the voice panning here which is not w/ a Matrix-1000.

If deviding odd and even MIDI note numbers would be a task for a masterkeyboard, the masterkeyboards features would be different,- p.ex. transmission of odd MIDI note numbers on MIDI channel X and even MIDI note numbers on MIDI channel Y (1 MIDI Out port),- and Xpander #1 set to MIDI Ch. X while Xpander #2 being set to MIDI channel Y, - the Xpanders daisy chained via MIDI Out Echo > MIDI In.

Or,- transmission of odd and even MIDI note numbers on 2 MIDI Out ports of the masterkeyboard (if it has 2 MIDI Out ports) but same MIDI channel,- each Xpander connected to one of these ports.

Or split of MIDI note numbers across 2 MIDI channels and 2 MIDI ports.

All is thinkable and would work.

Unfortunately, there\ufffds no masterkeyboard out there I know, splitting odd and even MIDI note numbers and transmitting these on different MIDI channels or different MIDI ports.
I hoped a Oberheim XK can but it doesn\ufffdt and none of my other keyboards does.
Also my MIDITEMP PMM88E can\ufffdt.

If anyone knows a hardware MIDI processor doing that,- let me know ...

I\ufffdd call it "Odd-Even MIDI Note Splitter" (MIDI Ch. or MIDI Port Split)

If someone has the skills and thinks about building such little box,- splitting note numbers into MIDI channels on 1 MIDI port would be the most compact and cost effective solution.

I wonder why it doesn\ufffdt exist made by Midisolutions,- they have the skills to realize that w/ ease.
Possibly it could be realized w/ this box,- just the processing function is missing:
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm#

They do modifications of their products on demand as also customized products.
http://www.midisolutions.com/about.htm

If that is done,- you need a keyboard providing power over MIDI to their boxes,- in the FAQ is a long list which products don\ufffdt and I doubt it\ufffds complete.
http://www.midisolutions.com/faqs.htm


best regards,\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd :-)
Bakis.

ditto

PeWe


Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by Omar Torres

Someone just needs to make a 12-voice
version of the Roland System-100m 184 CV/Gate
controller keyboard and just use CV/Gate on
the Xpanders. Problem solved...:)

-omar

---
sent from iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Apr 19, 2012, at 9:18 PM, PeWe <ha-pewe@...> wrote:

> 
> >>>
> 
> Am 20.04.2012 00:37, schrieb Bakis Sirros:
> 
>>  
>> hi list,
>> 
>> let's say you have two Xpanders midied together (midi out from one to midi in of the second).
>> does the Xpander support a 'midi overflow' mode, so you could play two Xpanders as one 12-voice machine?
> 
> NO !!!
> 
>> 
>> thanks in advance for your help!
> 
> There´s no help possible except a firmware/OS hack or a ext. hardware device which doesn´t exist AFAIK.
> 
> The Xpander MIDI Out set to "MIDI ECHO" just echoes what comes in at it´s MIDI Input.
> 
> A 2nd Xpander receiving MIDI info from the 1st Xpander´s MIDI Out (in MIDI Echo Mode) receives the SAME notes, controller data and sysex.
> That way, it will be 2 MIDI layered 6-voice Xpanders in general,- not discussing the common zoning features and combinations w/ 2 XPanders linked via MIDI here.
> 
> To make 2 6-voice Xpanders a 12-voice Xpander, in theory there would be 2 ways:
> 
> MIDI spill-over or recognition and MIDI filtering of odd and even MIDI note numbers.
> Some 19" MIDI tone generators use the MIDI note numbers.
> 
> Recognition of odd and even MIDI note numbers would work on the same MIDI channel in single-path mode and on the same MIDI channels in multi-patch mode, the zones set up exactly the same.
> That would be a functionality, we´d wish to have in the Xpander itself.
> 
> To be precise, Xpander #1 plays the even MIDI note numbers and Xpander #2 the odd MIDI note numbers.
> 
> IMO, it would be the more interesting method w/ 2 Xpanders because we also deal w/ the voice panning here which is not w/ a Matrix-1000.
> 
> If deviding odd and even MIDI note numbers would be a task for a masterkeyboard, the masterkeyboards features would be different,- p.ex. transmission of odd MIDI note numbers on MIDI channel X and even MIDI note numbers on MIDI channel Y (1 MIDI Out port),- and Xpander #1 set to MIDI Ch. X while Xpander #2 being set to MIDI channel Y, - the Xpanders daisy chained via MIDI Out Echo > MIDI In.
> 
> Or,- transmission of odd and even MIDI note numbers on 2 MIDI Out ports of the masterkeyboard (if it has 2 MIDI Out ports) but same MIDI channel,- each Xpander connected to one of these ports.
> 
> Or split of MIDI note numbers across 2 MIDI channels and 2 MIDI ports.
> 
> All is thinkable and would work.
> 
> Unfortunately, there´s no masterkeyboard out there I know, splitting odd and even MIDI note numbers and transmitting these on different MIDI channels or different MIDI ports.
> I hoped a Oberheim XK can but it doesn´t and none of my other keyboards does.
> Also my MIDITEMP PMM88E can´t.
> 
> If anyone knows a hardware MIDI processor doing that,- let me know ...
> 
> I´d call it "Odd-Even MIDI Note Splitter" (MIDI Ch. or MIDI Port Split)
> 
> If someone has the skills and thinks about building such little box,- splitting note numbers into MIDI channels on 1 MIDI port would be the most compact and cost effective solution.
> 
> I wonder why it doesn´t exist made by Midisolutions,- they have the skills to realize that w/ ease.
> Possibly it could be realized w/ this box,- just the processing function is missing:
> http://www.midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm#
> 
> They do modifications of their products on demand as also customized products.
> http://www.midisolutions.com/about.htm
> 
> If that is done,- you need a keyboard providing power over MIDI to their boxes,- in the FAQ is a long list which products don´t and I doubt it´s complete.
> http://www.midisolutions.com/faqs.htm
> 
>> 
>> best regards,     :-)
>> Bakis.
> 
> ditto
> 
> PeWe
> 
> 
>

Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by PeWe


But no one does !

Buy 3 Roland MPU-101 MIDI CV interfaces and you\ufffdre done ... :-))

I have one for sale,- eventually,- and if you need it urgent.
That would be the 1st 4 voices !

:-D


Am 20.04.2012 03:24, schrieb Omar Torres:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
\ufffd
Someone just needs to make a 12-voice
version of the Roland System-100m 184 CV/Gate
controller keyboard and just use CV/Gate on
the Xpanders. Problem solved...:)

-omar


Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by Karl Schmeer

Check out page actual 28   The rotate and reasign modes in group mode.
Is this what you guys are looking for?

Thanks for the manual btw.

Best
Karl




________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: - <synthasaurus@...>
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 10:09:50 PM
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

  
 I'm too tired to look through the whole manual, but maybe the Oberheim 
Systemizer can perform MIDI overflow:

http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~patalus/new_stuff/Oberheim_perfx/Manual_Systemizer.pdf


 I thought the Yamaha MEP-4 could do it, but I didn't see it in the manual.

Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by Omar Torres

that just changes the voicing engine
within the Xpander itself. It would mot
allow what Bakis is looking for.

-omar

---
sent from iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Apr 19, 2012, at 11:50 PM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:

> Check out page actual 28   The rotate and reasign modes in group mode.
> Is this what you guys are looking for?
>  
> Thanks for the manual btw.
>  
> Best
> Karl
>  
> 
> From: - <synthasaurus@...>
> To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 10:09:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?
> 
>  
>  I'm too tired to look through the whole manual, but maybe the Oberheim Systemizer can perform MIDI overflow:
> 
> http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~patalus/new_stuff/Oberheim_perfx/Manual_Systemizer.pdf
> 
>  I thought the Yamaha MEP-4 could do it, but I didn't see it in the manual.
> 
>

Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by Karl Schmeer

Okay but what about Alternate 

It says" Each new midi note will be transmitted to the next slave instrument."
Or "Alternate rotates among the slave instruments in a group."


Karl



________________________________
From: Omar Torres <holografique@...>
To: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 11:10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

  
that just changes the voicing engine
within the Xpander itself. It would mot
allow what Bakis is looking for.


-omar

---
sent from iPhone

On Apr 19, 2012, at 11:50 PM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:


  
>Check out page actual 28   The rotate and reasign modes in group mode.
>Is this what you guys are looking for?
>
>Thanks for the manual btw.
>
>Best
>Karl
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: - <synthasaurus@...>
>To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 10:09:50 PM
>Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?
>
>  
> I'm too tired to look through the whole manual, but maybe the Oberheim 
>Systemizer can perform MIDI overflow:
>
>http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~patalus/new_stuff/Oberheim_perfx/Manual_Systemizer.pdf
>
>
>
> I thought the Yamaha MEP-4 could do it, but I didn't see it in the manual.
>

Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by PeWe


Hi Karl !

Great and yes, - [alternate] and/or [alternate/rotate] together w/ the [group] feature could do the trick and w/ up to 4 Xpanders in a group.

Now I bite my ass \ufffdcause I ignored these plastic boxes w/ walwart PSUs in the past.

I wonder if the Oberheim "Systemizer" would introduce MIDI latency and jitter because the micro processors from that time weren\ufffdt too fast.

After reading the manual, I also wonder if the term "pedals" is related to toggling and momentary switch pedals only or if this box deals w/\ufffd CV pedals like the P-OBX too.

PeWe



Am 20.04.2012 06:31, schrieb Karl Schmeer:
\ufffd


Okay but what about Alternate

It says" Each new midi note will be transmitted to the next slave instrument."
Or "Alternate rotates among the slave instruments in a group."

Karl

________________________________

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Omar Torres <holografique@...>
To: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 11:10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

\ufffd
that just changes the voicing engine
within the Xpander itself. It would mot
allow what Bakis is looking for.

-omar

---
sent from iPhone

On Apr 19, 2012, at 11:50 PM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:

\ufffd
>Check out page actual 28\ufffd\ufffd The rotate and reasign modes in group mode.
>Is\ufffdthis\ufffdwhat you guys are looking for?
>
>Thanks for the manual btw.
>
>Best
>Karl


Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by Omar Torres

sorry, didnt realize you were talking about
a feature of the "Systemizer".

I was referring to the rotate and reassign modes
native to the Xpander OS.

-omar

---
sent from iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Apr 20, 2012, at 12:31 AM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:

> 
> Okay but what about Alternate 
> 
> It says" Each new midi note will be transmitted to the next slave instrument."
> Or "Alternate rotates among the slave instruments in a group."
> 
> Karl
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Omar Torres <holografique@gmail.com>
> To: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 11:10:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?
> 
>   
> that just changes the voicing engine
> within the Xpander itself. It would mot
> allow what Bakis is looking for.
> 
> -omar
> 
> ---
> sent from iPhone
> 
> On Apr 19, 2012, at 11:50 PM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:
> 
>   
> >Check out page actual 28   The rotate and reasign modes in group mode.
> >Is this what you guys are looking for?
> >
> >Thanks for the manual btw.
> >
> >Best
> >Karl
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: - <synthasaurus@...>
> >To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 10:09:50 PM
> >Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?
> >
> >  
> > I'm too tired to look through the whole manual, but maybe the Oberheim 
> >Systemizer can perform MIDI overflow:
> >
> >http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~patalus/new_stuff/Oberheim_perfx/Manual_Systemizer.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> > I thought the Yamaha MEP-4 could do it, but I didn't see it in the manual.
> >
> 
>

Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by PeWe


You have to understand the Xpander itself cannot do what you\ufffdre after.
Rotate and Re-Assign Modes affect the Xpander\ufffds internal voices only and there\ufffds no way of voice spillover to a 2nd Xpander.

You need a external device, may it be a modern one or one from the past.

Oberheim Systemizer seems to be the one from the past.

PeWe

Am 20.04.2012 13:56, schrieb Omar Torres:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
\ufffd
sorry, didnt realize you were talking about
a feature of the "Systemizer".

I was referring to the rotate and reassign modes
native to the Xpander OS.

-omar


Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by Omar Torres

yea I understand that. Thats why i responded
saying it wasn't possible with the Xpander.

I thought his comment about rotate and reassign
was just referring to it working just with the Xpander.
I didnt realize he was asking in reference to the 
Systemizer in combination with the Xpander.

-omar

---
sent from iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Apr 20, 2012, at 8:08 AM, PeWe <ha-pewe@...> wrote:

> 
> You have to understand the Xpander itself cannot do what you´re after.
> Rotate and Re-Assign Modes affect the Xpander´s internal voices only and there´s no way of voice spillover to a 2nd Xpander.
> 
> You need a external device, may it be a modern one or one from the past.
> 
> Oberheim Systemizer seems to be the one from the past.
> 
> PeWe
> 
> Am 20.04.2012 13:56, schrieb Omar Torres:
> 
>>  
>> sorry, didnt realize you were talking about
>> a feature of the "Systemizer".
>> 
>> I was referring to the rotate and reassign modes
>> native to the Xpander OS.
>> 
>> -omar
>> 
> 
>

Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by PeWe


Precisely,- not w/ THE Xpander but w/ 2 or more.

In fact, I\ufffdm now looking for a Systemizer, 1st to check is functionality which can be done w/ any MIDI gear.
If it works, it might be worth to buy a 2nd Xpander and probably 2 Matrix-1000 again.

Because I own a Yamaha TX816 as1st owner and in excellent condition and always liked the combination of XPander and Yamaha FM,- I mainly used the DX7mkIIFD and the Xpander together in a layer,- I can only imagine what I could do w/ the TX816 devided in pairs of TF-1 modules plus the Oberheim setup.

PeWe

Am 20.04.2012 14:14, schrieb Omar Torres:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
\ufffd
yea I understand that. Thats why i responded
saying it wasn't possible with the Xpander.

I thought his comment about rotate and reassign
was just referring to it working just with the Xpander.
I didnt realize he was asking in reference to the\ufffd
Systemizer in combination with the Xpander.

-omar


Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by WT

:)
WT
----- Original Message -----
From: PeWe
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?


Precisely,- not w/ THE Xpander but w/ 2 or more.

In fact, I´m now looking for a Systemizer, 1st to check is functionality which can be done w/ any MIDI gear.
If it works, it might be worth to buy a 2nd Xpander and probably 2 Matrix-1000 again.

Because I own a Yamaha TX816 as1st owner and in excellent condition and always liked the combination of XPander and Yamaha FM,- I mainly used the DX7mkIIFD and the Xpander together in a layer,- I can only imagine what I could do w/ the TX816 devided in pairs of TF-1 modules plus the Oberheim setup.

PeWe

Am 20.04.2012 14:14, schrieb Omar Torres:

yea I understand that. Thats why i responded
saying it wasn't possible with the Xpander.

I thought his comment about rotate and reassign
was just referring to it working just with the Xpander.
I didnt realize he was asking in reference to the
Systemizer in combination with the Xpander.

-omar


Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by Karl Schmeer

Hi PeWe!!

I hardly noticed the systemizer when it came out. Looks like it extends most of 
the midi control functionality 

of the M1000 to a keyboard rig.  Yes I strongly dislike the walwart PSU. 

Best Regards

Karl




________________________________
From: PeWe <ha-pewe@...>
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 20, 2012 6:44:39 AM
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

  

Hi Karl !

Great and yes, - [alternate] and/or [alternate/rotate] together w/ the [group] 
feature could do the trick and w/ up to 4 Xpanders in a group.

Now I bite my ass ´cause I ignored these plastic boxes w/ walwart PSUs in the 
past.

I wonder if the Oberheim "Systemizer" would introduce MIDI latency and jitter 
because the micro processors from that time weren´t too fast.

After reading the manual, I also wonder if the term "pedals" is related to 
toggling and momentary switch pedals only or if this box deals w/  CV pedals 
like the P-OBX too.

PeWe



Am 20.04.2012 06:31, schrieb Karl Schmeer:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>Okay but what about Alternate 
>
>It says" Each new midi note will be transmitted to the next slave instrument."
>Or "Alternate rotates among the slave instruments in a group."
>
>Karl
>
>________________________________
>From: Omar Torres <holografique@...>
>To: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
>Cc: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 11:10:06 PM
>Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?
>
>  
>that just changes the voicing engine
>within the Xpander itself. It would mot
>allow what Bakis is looking for.
>
>-omar
>
>---
>sent from iPhone
>
>On Apr 19, 2012, at 11:50 PM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>  
>>Check out page actual 28   The rotate and reasign modes in group mode.
>>Is this what you guys are looking for?
>>
>>Thanks for the manual btw.
>>
>>Best
>>Karl
>

Single Patches

2012-04-20 by Karl Schmeer

Hi All

I have recently got a web enabled computer into the same room as my M12. Been up 
for days 

checking out all the patches from the files section. Some of those sound 
sets make my M12 sound like a new machine!!
Bravo!!

I also would like to thank whoever pointed me to midiox. Tony C. maybe ?? 

However, when I try to load just a single patch to my M12, nothing happens. If I 
load a patch I just created and saved then it works. Then I can load an 
alternate single patch files only once. But If I try to load another, again 
nothing happens. 

I tried appending an $F7 at the end of the patch but this made no difference.

Is this because the patches were originaly authored on an expander?

What am I doing wrong?

Best Regards

Karl

Re: Single Patches

2012-04-20 by Tony Cappellini

>>Is this because the patches were originally authored on an expander?

It would be interesting to compare a patch that works, with one that doesn't work.

You can send one of each from the M12 to Midiox, then save each one as a separate file.
You then need to view both files with a hex editor.

I don't remember what the structure of an M12 patch looks like compared to an Xpander patch, but the Sysex ID should be different at the very least,
and the length of the M12 patch is probably longer.



Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by PeWe

Have you read my other post ?

Kurzweil PC3 does the trick playing 2 Xpander as a 12-voice instrument,- so for me,- there\ufffds the solution without using any additional hardware device.

:-)


Am 20.04.2012 18:51, schrieb Karl Schmeer:
\ufffd
Hi PeWe!!
\ufffd
I\ufffdhardly noticed the systemizer when it came out. Looks like it\ufffdextends most of the midi control functionality
of the M1000 to a keyboard rig.\ufffd\ufffdYes I strongly dislike the walwart PSU.\ufffd
\ufffd
Best Regards
\ufffd
Karl
\ufffd

Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: PeWe
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 20, 2012 6:44:39 AM
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

\ufffd


Hi Karl !

Great and yes, - [alternate] and/or [alternate/rotate] together w/ the [group] feature could do the trick and w/ up to 4 Xpanders in a group.

Now I bite my ass \ufffdcause I ignored these plastic boxes w/ walwart PSUs in the past.

I wonder if the Oberheim "Systemizer" would introduce MIDI latency and jitter because the micro processors from that time weren\ufffdt too fast.

After reading the manual, I also wonder if the term "pedals" is related to toggling and momentary switch pedals only or if this box deals w/\ufffd CV pedals like the P-OBX too.

PeWe



Am 20.04.2012 06:31, schrieb Karl Schmeer:

\ufffd


Okay but what about Alternate

It says" Each new midi note will be transmitted to the next slave instrument."
Or "Alternate rotates among the slave instruments in a group."

Karl

________________________________
From: Omar Torres <holografique@...>
To: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 11:10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

\ufffd
that just changes the voicing engine
within the Xpander itself. It would mot
allow what Bakis is looking for.

-omar

---
sent from iPhone

On Apr 19, 2012, at 11:50 PM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:

\ufffd
>Check out page actual 28\ufffd\ufffd The rotate and reasign modes in group mode.
>Is\ufffdthis\ufffdwhat you guys are looking for?
>
>Thanks for the manual btw.
>
>Best
>Karl



Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

2012-04-20 by Karl Schmeer

Yes, I saw that, you lucky dog. :-)


Karl 




________________________________
From: PeWe <ha-pewe@...>
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 20, 2012 12:42:55 PM
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?

  
Have you read my other post ?

Kurzweil PC3 does the trick playing 2 Xpander as a 12-voice instrument,- so for 
me,- there´s the solution without using any additional hardware device.

:-)


Am 20.04.2012 18:51, schrieb Karl Schmeer: 
  
>Hi PeWe!!
>
>I hardly noticed the systemizer when it came out. Looks like it extends most of 
>the midi control functionality 
>
>of the M1000 to a keyboard rig.  Yes I strongly dislike the walwart PSU. 
>
>Best Regards
>
>Karl
>
>
>
>
________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: PeWe <ha-pewe@...>
>To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Fri, April 20, 2012 6:44:39 AM
>Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?
>
>  
>
>Hi Karl !
>
>Great and yes, - [alternate] and/or [alternate/rotate] together w/ the [group] 
>feature could do the trick and w/ up to 4 Xpanders in a group.
>
>Now I bite my ass ´cause I ignored these plastic boxes w/ walwart PSUs in the 
>past.
>
>I wonder if the Oberheim "Systemizer" would introduce MIDI latency and jitter 
>because the micro processors from that time weren´t too fast.
>
>After reading the manual, I also wonder if the term "pedals" is related to 
>toggling and momentary switch pedals only or if this box deals w/  CV pedals 
>like the P-OBX too.
>
>PeWe
>
>
>
>Am 20.04.2012 06:31, schrieb Karl Schmeer: 
>  
>>
>>Okay but what about Alternate 
>>
>>It says" Each new midi note will be transmitted to the next slave instrument."
>>Or "Alternate rotates among the slave instruments in a group."
>>
>>Karl
>>
>>________________________________
>>From: Omar Torres <holografique@...>
>>To: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
>>Cc: "xpantastic@yahoogroups.com" <xpantastic@yahoogroups.com>
>>Sent: Thu, April 19, 2012 11:10:06 PM
>>Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpander midi overflow mode available?
>>
>>  
>>that just changes the voicing engine
>>within the Xpander itself. It would mot
>>allow what Bakis is looking for.
>>
>>-omar
>>
>>---
>>sent from iPhone
>>
>>On Apr 19, 2012, at 11:50 PM, Karl Schmeer <shire03@...> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>>Check out page actual 28   The rotate and reasign modes in group mode.
>>>Is this what you guys are looking for?
>>>
>>>Thanks for the manual btw.
>>>
>>>Best
>>>Karl
>>

Re: [xpantastic] Re: Single Patches

2012-04-20 by Karl Schmeer

Well, I will give that a try, and report back.   

Thanks Tony

Karl

________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...>
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 20, 2012 12:20:59 PM
Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Single Patches

  
>>Is this because the patches were originally authored on an expander?

It would be interesting to compare a patch that works, with one that doesn't 
work.

You can send one of each from the M12 to Midiox, then save each one as a 
separate file.
You then need to view both files with a hex editor.

I don't remember what the structure of an M12 patch looks like compared to an 
Xpander patch, but the Sysex ID should be different at the very least,
and the length of the M12 patch is probably longer.

[xpantastic] Re: Single Patches

2012-04-29 by Karl Schmeer

Hi All, & Tony 

Thought I would report back about loading single patches from the files page.
I found there are two additional  sysex command strings at the start of each 
single program. The first sets the programmer mode to multi patch. The second 
changes the programmer mode back to single patch mode. I guess these were 
accidentally added when the patches were originally dumped. 

I found it was the first command string ( set proggramer mode to multi ) which 
kept my M12 from loading a single patch. If I remove it, the patch loads fine.
Also, it does not seem to affect anything but there are two bytes 
at the end of each patch which are ignored by the M12 because they are 
not bracketed by the F0 - F7 sequence.

> Tony wrote:
>I don't remember what the structure of an M12 patch looks like compared to an 
>Xpander patch, but the Sysex ID should be different at the very least,
Well from what I have read : Single patches are exactly the same. Multi 
patches are different in that the sysex  ID is a $04 ( M12) instead of a $02 
(xpander)

>and the length of the M12 patch is probably longer.
I believe I looked at all the patch dumps in the files section, but I could find
no Xpander multi patchs to look at. I notice multi's were not added to patch 
dump until later firmware revs so I guess all these files were from older rev 
Xpanders or M12 machines. 

If someone would care to point me to one I could take a look, as I am fairly 
sharp on Xpander/M12 Sysex formats at the moment.

I can say that after looking closely at a M12's multi patch, each M12 multi 
patch is exactly 243 bytes long.

A wild assed guess of Xpander multi patch lengthes would be 147 bytes. 

Best Regards 

Karl




________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...>
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 20, 2012 12:20:59 PM
Subject: [xpantastic] Re: Single Patches

>>Is this because the patches were originally authored on an expander?

It would be interesting to compare a patch that works, with one that doesn't 
work.

You can send one of each from the M12 to Midiox, then save each one as a 
separate file.
You then need to view both files with a hex editor.

I don't remember what the structure of an M12 patch looks like compared to an 
Xpander patch, but the Sysex ID should be different at the very least,
and the length of the M12 patch is probably longer.

Re: [xpantastic] Re: Single Patches

2012-04-30 by Tony Cappellini

Ill see if I have any of my mults laying around my system drive.

I had started to write a program to turn XP patches into text, so I could
see all of the parameters at once, to help better understand what makes the patch sound like it does.

Trying to understand how a patch works Page by Page on the front panel - is for the birds ;-)
Alas- I never did finish that program though :(

Re: Single Patches

2012-04-30 by baumont987

Tony and all,

This program already exists and is part of the archive 	OberheimXpanderMidiSpec.zip  in the File section.

As far as single patches are concerned, they are the same for Matrix-12 and Xpander, they are 399 bytes long and starting with F0 02 01 00 ....("Program data dump follows" messages).
Only multi patches sysex differ between Matrix-12 (starting with F0 10 04 01 01...) and Xpander (starting with F0 10 02 01 01...).

This is detailed in the above document, page 18/30.

Hope this helps.




--- In xpantastic@yahoogroups.com, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Ill see if I have any of my mults laying around my system drive.
> 
> I had started to write a program to turn XP patches into text, so I could
> see all of the parameters at once, to help better understand what makes the
> patch sound like it does.
> 
> Trying to understand how a patch works Page by Page on the front panel - is
> for the birds ;-)
> Alas- I never did finish that program though :(
>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.