2013-08-20 by analogmonster@...
My point wasn't really about midiquest though, it was about the slowing down of sysex messages when using a "modern multi core laptop with win 8" Or equivilent. Leaving opinions about the software itself aside, Midiquest is one of the only current generation computer midi editors available. And in its preferences is a section where you can adjust the data transmission rate-Steve was curious about if/how the transmission rate change effected the problem if the midi serial rate is supposed to be a standard that doesn't change between devices, and this only reinforces the point that it does have an affect.
The majority of the good pc software editors out there are abandonware, when ghz processor speeds, 64 bit and multicore were not something anyone had to account for. If you want the older technology to work with current gen you need to understand the issues involved. An Atari st completely sidesteps the problem by being the bridge between old and new. It doesn't need slowing down because compared to a modern pc it already is slow, but is a comparative speed to the mcu in the older synths were trying to communicate with.
Personally as much as I'd love an atari st, it doesnt meet my requirements for audio-i certainly cant have 32 channels i/o at 96k with near zero latency. I'm far more interested in getting my modern equipment to behave well with my older gear so I can be prepared for both now and the future, rather than relying on what in computer terms is considered an antique.
On 20 Aug 2013, at 19:34, Jason Adkins <jason_ralf808@...> wrote:
> Look we all know there is a dodgy version of Midi Quest so lets stop
> pussyfooting around,I don't use it in fact I uninstalled it but I
> tried it and the program was superb.
>
> On 20 Aug 2013, at 18:22, analogmonster@... wrote:
>
> > His reasoning makes a lot of sense actually. Midi quest has boxes in
> > its preferences to slow data down by x ms per byte and a few other
> > options. I think soundiver has an option for setting the data rate
> > also.
> >
> > I had (still have tbh) problems with midi quest and an ensoniq
> > synth, and contacted midi quest tech support. They basically
> > explained it the same way-modern pcs processors are too fast for the
> > processor within the synth. The data is still received at 31.25,
> > that rate never changes for serial midi. it's just that you are
> > essentially overloading the processor with data.
>
> Correct
>
> >
> > Playing with the settings within midi quest under tech supports
> > instruction got a number of my synths working with it in a very
> > stable manor. The ensoniq never played nice because at the time I
> > was mac only and one of the parameters I needed to change wouldn't
> > change under osx. I had issues with y cz1000 until the data rate was
> > dropped.
> >
> > As for interfaces I use, two motu midi express 128s and an m audio
> > midisport 8x8s. Stable as hell.
>
> I use 2 Midisports 4x4 (got a lot of hardware) and a Emagic AMT8 as a
> midi patchbay and the Atari runs the PC
> >
> > And an Atari st is great, but you shouldn't need one. It should be
> > more than possible to get things fully functional with your current
> > of setup. If anything I'd say save the Atari money for a high
> > quality midi interface.
>
> But if you already have a high quality midi interface buy an
> Atari.... ;)
>
> J
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On 20 Aug 2013, at 17:38, "steve_the_composer" <smw-
> > mail@...> wrote:
> >
> >> Interesting. It might be that your solution works, but I am curious
> >> about your reasoning. I was under the impression that to
> >> communicate with 5-pin din midi gear, 31.25 kb/s had to be used--
> >> whether its a Commodore 64 or a modern multi-core laptop with Win
> >> 8. (I could be wrong, though.)
> >>
> >> With an arduino and a usb-midi serial bridge, I have been able to
> >> communicate midi data to VSTs at much higher rates (up to 115200 b/
> >> s, I believe). This was with an arduino connected via usb that
> >> appears in an 8 year old WinXP SP3 PC as a COM port. However, to
> >> transmit data to 5-pin din midi device, the rate has to be 31250 b/s.
> >>
> >> As for your 1x1 not working any more, I had something similar
> >> happen with my emagic mt4. I believe that WinXP SP2 or SP3 changed
> >> the way usb devices were enumerated and that cause the e-magic
> >> drivers to no longer function as they had.
> >>
> >> The E-Mu 2x2 interface however works. It might be because E-Mu
> >> updated the drivers. (Did you check to see if there are updated
> >> drivers for the 1x1?) I suspect that the reason why so many
> >> companies have to keep rewriting Windows drivers is because MS
> >> keeps changing things.
> >>
> >> Out of curiosity, what OS/SP did you use on your vintage PC and was
> >> it the same as on the modern laptop? Also, did you use the e-mu 1x1
> >> on the modern laptop with your slow-down script?
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "fulfil_objective" <robot@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi dedlander,
> >>>
> >>> I did some experimenting tonight and I have another thing for you
> >>> to try. What I think is happening is that your modern computer,
> >>> and your modern USB/MIDI cable, is sending the sysex messages TOO
> >>> FAST for your CZ to keep up. The CZ's are from the mid-1980s and
> >>> do not have fast processors.
> >>>
> >>> To answer your immediate question, I have an EMU XMIDI 1x1 cable.
> >>> This is the one that worked for me, and then stopped working for
> >>> me. What I realized today is that what changed for me between when
> >>> it worked and didn't work was the COMPUTER. Not the operating
> >>> system, not the software, the physical computer. I had been using
> >>> a vintage PC, and switched to using a modern laptop.
> >>>
> >>> So my theory is that modern computers, with modern USB/MIDI
> >>> cables, can spit out the sysex so fast that a CZ can't keep up.
> >>>
> >>> I tested this today. I used a fast laptop with a USB/MIDI cable
> >>> and sent a sysex dump to my CZ-1. Nothing happened. Next I routed
> >>> the sysex message through a small script that slowed the message
> >>> down byte by byte. Now it worked.
> >>>
> >>> I think you should try slowing down the sysex message, but do
> >>> everything else as normal.
> >>>
> >>> I believe that Bome's Send SX has a "Speed of sending MIDI"
> >>> option. Set that to low and try again.
> >>>
> >>> MIDI-OX also has the ability to slow down the output. You set a
> >>> certain size output buffer, and then add a delay after each
> >>> buffer. Read the built-in help file under System Exclusive >
> >>> Configuration Options.
> >>>
> >>> When I tried it, I put 1 millisecond between each byte, and 1
> >>> second between each message. The one second felt a little too
> >>> long, but it worked.
> >>>
> >>> To try one millisecond per byte in MIDI-OX, open up the Sysex
> >>> window. Go to Sysex > Configure. Set the output to use only one
> >>> buffer, and have the buffer be one byte in length. Then set the
> >>> delay between buffers to one millisecend.
> >>>
> >>> There might be other timings that are better and more appropriate
> >>> for the CZ hardware, I'm just mentioning the ones that I tried
> >>> that worked.
> >>>
> >>> This solution would match the symptoms of being able to receive
> >>> MIDI events from a CZ, but not being able to send them. You have a
> >>> computer which speaks and listens very quickly. You have a CZ
> >>> which speaks and listens slowly. When the CZ speaks, the computer
> >>> is able to understand it with no problem. But when the computer
> >>> speaks, the CZ is like, "What just happened?".
> >>>
> >>> This solution would also match the symptoms of people using
> >>> vintage equipment not having a problem, and people with modern
> >>> equipment having a problem. It seem that other people with other
> >>> vintage equipment have run into this same problem as well.
> >>>
> >>> I hope this helps!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In CZsynth@yahoogroups.com, "dedlandar" <dedlandar@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Nothing happens when I transmit the glide on command back to the
> >>>> CZ.
> >>>>
> >>>> What kind of MIDI>USB cable are you guys using?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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