Digital BW, The Print

For those of you that are delaying entering the exciting world of 
digital photography.

Wake up and smell reality.

Digital is here to stay and it's taking over. 

These are 3 examples of what little work and some thought can do. 
Not to mention PhotoShop 7 as an important tool.

Time flies
http://shutterport.picturejudge.com/rating/index.cfm?catkey=185799

No wake zone

http://shutterport.picturejudge.com/rating/index.cfm?catkey=185809

My first 100% digital commercial secession

http://shutterport.picturejudge.com/rating/index.cfm?catkey=185814

I invite all comments. You can reply through this group or leave me 
a comment that attached to the photo.

Thanks, I hope you enjoy

Well... My mom taught me that if you can't say anything nice... don't  
say anything at all!

I think I will honer her.

-Jeff

On Tuesday, August 5, 2003, at 10:34 AM, Karina Knight wrote:

> For those of you that are delaying entering the exciting world of
> digital photography.
>
> Wake up and smell reality.
>
> Digital is here to stay and it's taking over.
>
> These are 3 examples of what little work and some thought can do.
> Not to mention PhotoShop 7 as an important tool.
>
> Time flies
> http://shutterport.picturejudge.com/rating/index.cfm?catkey=185799
>
> No wake zone
>
> http://shutterport.picturejudge.com/rating/index.cfm?catkey=185809
>
> My first 100% digital commercial secession
>
> http://shutterport.picturejudge.com/rating/index.cfm?catkey=185814
>
> I invite all comments. You can reply through this group or leave me
> a comment that attached to the photo.
>
> Thanks, I hope you enjoy
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
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>
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>
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>

Karina Knight wrote:

>For those of you that are delaying entering the exciting world of 
>digital photography.
>
>Wake up and smell reality.
>  
>
You're preaching to the choir...

<SNIP>

>My first 100% digital commercial secession
>
>http://shutterport.picturejudge.com/rating/index.cfm?catkey=185814
>  
>

Two comments:

1)   Not one of these images is B&W!

2)   the last image, the one I left the link intact to is simply WRONG!  
You must not be from NYC or the NYC area.... The image  of bicycles  at 
the stop light makes that point well enough, BUT to use an inset of the 
WTC Towers as the window background is simply and completely 
unacceptable in a commercial piece - over 3000 people died there and you 
use it as a commercial background image NOW? (not to mention a war in 
Afghanistan that tragedy precipitated).. Heck, it's only a month or so, 
maybe Rudy Giuliani will autograph the pic if you bring it to Ground 
Zero on  Sept 11... Aggggggggghhhhhh!

I get the distinct impression that I should consider your post SPAM!


 

"Just some guy," and caretaker of the Multiverse's largest EPSON printer 
User Community (highly recommended by Vogon Poets and MegaDodo 
Publications), at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
 
"For the rest of you out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together 
guys"

Exactly, so why bother responding- (s)he's not (t)here!

on 8/6/03 3:18 AM, Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:

> I get the distinct impression that I should consider your post SPAM!
> 
>

The webmaster of this black and white photo forum allows a reference 
to a color photo that could be interpreted as making light of the 
World Trade Center incident, but when I make a post complaining about 
Yahoo placing an ad for AllPosters.com that sticks a graphic image of 
a homosexual act in my face all the time on the forum index page, the 
webmaster removes my post. Go figure.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

<BEGIN RANT>

Dear God people...

Ok, I want everyone to take a deep breath.  Put on your asbestos 
underwear, and start acting like photographers who are interested in 
improving their digital printing techniques.

It's a big Internet, and God knows there are plenty of places to discuss 
9/11, homophobia, and free-market economics.  Take it there, and please 
stop fanning the flames as soon as you hear the slosh of the gas can.  
The only thing I hate more than a flamewar is an off-topic flamewar.

In the meantime, I'll be getting my Epson 2200 with QTR2 running on Red 
Hat Linux for those that are interested.

<END RANT>

sanfo2003 wrote:

|The webmaster of this black and white photo forum allows a reference
|to a color photo that could be interpreted as making light of the
|World Trade Center incident, but when I make a post complaining about
|Yahoo placing an ad for AllPosters.com that sticks a graphic image of
|a homosexual act in my face all the time on the forum index page, the
|webmaster removes my post. Go figure.
|
|
|
|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
|
|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
|
|If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
same page.
|
|Please follow these basic guidelines:
|- Include your full name with your message.
|- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
|- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
keep them short.
|- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
|- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
|- Complete your Yahoo profile.
|- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
|
|
|
|
|Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

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I'm with you.  I'v got an Epson 9600 that I print B&W and color on.  There isn't a lot in these exchanges that help me advance my work.  And that's really ok.  But, the percentage of stuff in these exchanges doesn't seem to be designed to help anyone advance their work is quite high.  I really like to think that artists, including photographers, are an open minded group, but daily I am confronted with evidence to the contrary.  
 
These forums should be a positive experience.  Discussions of technique and philosophy are great, but don't unload on someone just because you don't share their point of view, either technically or otherwise.
 
In the end, it's only personal accountability that keeps people from misusing these forums.  I guess we know what that's really worth..
 
TB


Justin Florentine <justin@...> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

<BEGIN RANT>

Dear God people...

Ok, I want everyone to take a deep breath.  Put on your asbestos 
underwear, and start acting like photographers who are interested in 
improving their digital printing techniques.

It's a big Internet, and God knows there are plenty of places to discuss 
9/11, homophobia, and free-market economics.  Take it there, and please 
stop fanning the flames as soon as you hear the slosh of the gas can.  
The only thing I hate more than a flamewar is an off-topic flamewar.

In the meantime, I'll be getting my Epson 2200 with QTR2 running on Red 
Hat Linux for those that are interested.

<END RANT>

sanfo2003 wrote:

|The webmaster of this black and white photo forum allows a reference
|to a color photo that could be interpreted as making light of the
|World Trade Center incident, but when I make a post complaining about
|Yahoo placing an ad for AllPosters.com that sticks a graphic image of
|a homosexual act in my face all the time on the forum index page, the
|webmaster removes my post. Go figure.
|
|
|
|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
|
|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
|
|If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
same page.
|
|Please follow these basic guidelines:
|- Include your full name with your message.
|- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
|- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
keep them short.
|- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
|- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
|- Complete your Yahoo profile.
|- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
|
|
|
|
|Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sanfo2003 [mailto:SandyCornelius@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:49 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For those of you that are delaying...
>
>
> The webmaster of this black and white photo forum allows a reference
> to a color photo that could be interpreted as making light of the
> World Trade Center incident, but when I make a post complaining about
> Yahoo placing an ad for AllPosters.com that sticks a graphic image of
> a homosexual act in my face all the time on the forum index page, the
> webmaster removes my post. Go figure.

Sandy,

This forum is un-moderated in that none of the posts are prescreened before
they show up in the messages and are e-mailed out to the members. So we do
not "allow" people to post anything. All the moderators might do is come
along and clean up after the fact if there is a problem.

It is pretty rare for the moderators to delete a post. Generally we only do
it when there has been a flame war and nasty comments made, or blatant spam.
Can't say we get all the spam down as that is not so important.

Interestingly, I don't recall deleting your post (maybe Yahoo took it down)
although it would qualify as it is was not on topic. I suspect the sole
reason for your post was to promote your own political or religious views. I
have to advise you that this is not a forum for political or moral
discussion. There are plenty of forums out there for that. So please take
your views on sex somewhere else.

Martin Wesley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:56 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For those of you that are delaying...
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> <BEGIN RANT>
>
> Dear God people...
>
Justin,

Yes, let's not start a flame war. I do completely agree with your earlier
remarks but the folks in question are not likely to change their ways
>
> In the meantime, I'll be getting my Epson 2200 with QTR2 running on Red
> Hat Linux for those that are interested.

I would be extremely interested in how this works out as I would like to use
QTR2 with my 1280's. New PC's are selling for under $500 around here and
this would be a much better way to go for me than the used Mac route. Post
some updates as you go along.

Martin Wesley
>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I plan to post a doc on the list with my notes when I'm done.  Someone 
else was also going to take a crack at getting QTR2 running on BSD, 
although I forget who.  Perhaps we can collaborate?

So far in the process, I've been wrestling with issues that are beyond 
the scope of QTR.  I'm only now getting iee1394 drivers running on my 
Redhat 9 box.  I did an upgrade from 7 on my all-purpose box after 
installing a new card, so there are a lot of problems that are specific 
to me.  I think the doc will start with the assumption that you can 
already print with your printer via CUPS in Linux/BSD, which I can't.

Will post status reps as appropriate before the doc is ready if people 
are interested.

Martin Wesley wrote:

|
|>-----Original Message-----
|>From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@...]
|>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:56 AM
|>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
|>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For those of you that are delaying...
|>
|>
|>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|>Hash: SHA1
|>
|><BEGIN RANT>
|>
|>Dear God people...
|>
|Justin,
|
|Yes, let's not start a flame war. I do completely agree with your earlier
|remarks but the folks in question are not likely to change their ways
|
|>In the meantime, I'll be getting my Epson 2200 with QTR2 running on Red
|>Hat Linux for those that are interested.
|
|
|I would be extremely interested in how this works out as I would like 
to use
|QTR2 with my 1280's. New PC's are selling for under $500 around here and
|this would be a much better way to go for me than the used Mac route. Post
|some updates as you go along.
|
|Martin Wesley
|
|
|
|
|
|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
|
|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
|
|If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
same page.
|
|Please follow these basic guidelines:
|- Include your full name with your message.
|- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
|- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
keep them short.
|- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
|- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
|- Complete your Yahoo profile.
|- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
|
|
|
|
|Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

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I'm interested....

kenb

> 
> Will post status reps as appropriate before the doc is ready 
> if people 
> are interested.
> 
> Martin Wesley wrote:

I think I've gotten QTR installed under RH9 with an Epson 1270.  I 
say I think because I haven't actually bought or intalled the BW 
inkset.  But I can see the Quadtone printer showing up under CUPS.

I've got a 2200 also, and I'm pretty happy with the BW output, but I 
figure it wouldn't hurt to spend $50 on MIS cartridges to see if my 
venerable 1270 can do better.  I have gotten through all the install 
steps, but I'm stuck on the curves.

If you have any questions about the RH, gimp-print, or cups install, 
I could probably help.

If you make it through installing the curves before I do, I'd love 
to see a quick overview of the procedure.

It would be nice to see an rpm at some point instead of having to 
build it from scratch.  A README for Linux users is also definitely 
in order.

Let me know if I can help....

-Nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Justin 
Florentine <justin@b...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I plan to post a doc on the list with my notes when I'm done.  
Someone 
> else was also going to take a crack at getting QTR2 running on 
BSD, 
> although I forget who.  Perhaps we can collaborate?
> 
> So far in the process, I've been wrestling with issues that are 
beyond 
> the scope of QTR.  I'm only now getting iee1394 drivers running on 
my 
> Redhat 9 box.  I did an upgrade from 7 on my all-purpose box after 
> installing a new card, so there are a lot of problems that are 
specific 
> to me.  I think the doc will start with the assumption that you 
can 
> already print with your printer via CUPS in Linux/BSD, which I 
can't.
> 
> Will post status reps as appropriate before the doc is ready if 
people 
> are interested.
> 
> Martin Wesley wrote:
> 
> |
> |>-----Original Message-----
> |>From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@b...]
> |>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:56 AM
> |>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> |>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For those of you that are delaying...
> |>
> |>
> |>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> |>Hash: SHA1
> |>
> |><BEGIN RANT>
> |>
> |>Dear God people...
> |>
> |Justin,
> |
> |Yes, let's not start a flame war. I do completely agree with your 
earlier
> |remarks but the folks in question are not likely to change their 
ways
> |
> |>In the meantime, I'll be getting my Epson 2200 with QTR2 running 
on Red
> |>Hat Linux for those that are interested.
> |
> |
> |I would be extremely interested in how this works out as I would 
like 
> to use
> |QTR2 with my 1280's. New PC's are selling for under $500 around 
here and
> |this would be a much better way to go for me than the used Mac 
route. Post
> |some updates as you go along.
> |
> |Martin Wesley
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls 
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> |
> |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> |
> |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to 
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this 
> same page.
> |
> |Please follow these basic guidelines:
> |- Include your full name with your message.
> |- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to 
> keep them short.
> |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames
> |- Complete your Yahoo profile.
> |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
> various resources on the homepage.
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> |
> |
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> 
> iD8DBQE/MVFou7srlnPHEE8RAsHRAJsF03gGggPh9iAHeSTGcd+MVSs6AQCfcXZS
> VzfIJtaj45qwYC/8APMJ5UE=
> =r2gX
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Hi Nick,

I have cups and gimp print working under Mandrake 9.1 but the beta that is
on Roy's site won't install. Both the make file and install give error
messages and when you go into gimp print the quad choices aren't there.

Could you do a step by step on how you did it?

Thanks

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Nick Pope [mailto:nick@...]
  Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 6:58 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2 was For those of you that are
delaying...


  I think I've gotten QTR installed under RH9 with an Epson 1270.  I
  say I think because I haven't actually bought or intalled the BW
  inkset.  But I can see the Quadtone printer showing up under CUPS.

  I've got a 2200 also, and I'm pretty happy with the BW output, but I
  figure it wouldn't hurt to spend $50 on MIS cartridges to see if my
  venerable 1270 can do better.  I have gotten through all the install
  steps, but I'm stuck on the curves.

  If you have any questions about the RH, gimp-print, or cups install,
  I could probably help.

  If you make it through installing the curves before I do, I'd love
  to see a quick overview of the procedure.

  It would be nice to see an rpm at some point instead of having to
  build it from scratch.  A README for Linux users is also definitely
  in order.

  Let me know if I can help....

  -Nick

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Justin
  Florentine <justin@b...> wrote:
  > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
  > Hash: SHA1
  >
  > I plan to post a doc on the list with my notes when I'm done.
  Someone
  > else was also going to take a crack at getting QTR2 running on
  BSD,
  > although I forget who.  Perhaps we can collaborate?
  >
  > So far in the process, I've been wrestling with issues that are
  beyond
  > the scope of QTR.  I'm only now getting iee1394 drivers running on
  my
  > Redhat 9 box.  I did an upgrade from 7 on my all-purpose box after
  > installing a new card, so there are a lot of problems that are
  specific
  > to me.  I think the doc will start with the assumption that you
  can
  > already print with your printer via CUPS in Linux/BSD, which I
  can't.
  >
  > Will post status reps as appropriate before the doc is ready if
  people
  > are interested.
  >
  > Martin Wesley wrote:
  >
  > |
  > |>-----Original Message-----
  > |>From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@b...]
  > |>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:56 AM
  > |>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  > |>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] For those of you that are delaying...
  > |>
  > |>
  > |>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
  > |>Hash: SHA1
  > |>
  > |><BEGIN RANT>
  > |>
  > |>Dear God people...
  > |>
  > |Justin,
  > |
  > |Yes, let's not start a flame war. I do completely agree with your
  earlier
  > |remarks but the folks in question are not likely to change their
  ways
  > |
  > |>In the meantime, I'll be getting my Epson 2200 with QTR2 running
  on Red
  > |>Hat Linux for those that are interested.
  > |
  > |
  > |I would be extremely interested in how this works out as I would
  like
  > to use
  > |QTR2 with my 1280's. New PC's are selling for under $500 around
  here and
  > |this would be a much better way to go for me than the used Mac
  route. Post
  > |some updates as you go along.
  > |
  > |Martin Wesley
  > |
  > |
  > |
  > |
  > |
  > |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
  Polls
  > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is
  at:
  > |
  > |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
  > |
  > |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
  wish to
  > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
  this
  > same page.
  > |
  > |Please follow these basic guidelines:
  > |- Include your full name with your message.
  > |- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  > |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
  messages to
  > keep them short.
  > |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
  header.
  > |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
  flames
  > |- Complete your Yahoo profile.
  > |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
  > various resources on the homepage.
  > |
  > |
  > |
  > |
  > |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  > |
  > |
  >
  > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
  > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
  > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
  >
  > iD8DBQE/MVFou7srlnPHEE8RAsHRAJsF03gGggPh9iAHeSTGcd+MVSs6AQCfcXZS
  > VzfIJtaj45qwYC/8APMJ5UE=
  > =r2gX
  > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:05 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2 was For those of you that are
> delaying...
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I plan to post a doc on the list with my notes when I'm done.  Someone
> else was also going to take a crack at getting QTR2 running on BSD,
> although I forget who.  Perhaps we can collaborate?
>
> So far in the process, I've been wrestling with issues that are beyond
> the scope of QTR.  I'm only now getting iee1394 drivers running on my
> Redhat 9 box.  I did an upgrade from 7 on my all-purpose box after
> installing a new card, so there are a lot of problems that are specific
> to me.  I think the doc will start with the assumption that you can
> already print with your printer via CUPS in Linux/BSD, which I can't.
>
> Will post status reps as appropriate before the doc is ready if people
> are interested.
>
Justin,

That sounds great and I look forward to your info. You appear to be an
experienced Linux user. For those of us who have never given Linux a try,
can you point us towards some resources for learning how to do the install
and set-up or is it self evident when you buy the software? I take it Red
Hat is your flavor of choice.

Also can you give us your opinion as to what is needed in terms of hardware
for a Linux/QTR2 server. CPU speed, RAM and disk space requirements?

Thanks,
Martin

Justin Florentine writes:
 > [...]
 > I plan to post a doc on the list with my notes when I'm done.  Someone 
 > else was also going to take a crack at getting QTR2 running on BSD, 
 > although I forget who.  Perhaps we can collaborate?
 > [...]

I'm probably the FreeBSD guy....  I'll be off the net starting
tomorrow for a week (Barcelona & Port Bou) then home to start catching
up on projects....

I'd love to exchange notes, builds, etc...!!!

g.

I got QTR2 on RedHat8 working last night.

I'm using a 2100 with the MIS UltraTones and have a problem with the
profiling. I've followed the profiling process described in the
documentation and this is the result:

http://daniel.staver.no/img/qtr2problem1.jpg

It seems like one ink is reduced too much before the next one kicks in,
and I haven't really found any setting that helps. Using a very high
value for GRAY_OVERLAP improves the curve a little, but doesn't really
fix the problem. Using custom linearization values measured with my
densitometer also helps, but again, not enough to give me a completely
smooth curve.

Any ideas what I can do to fix this?

I'm using the K, C, LC and Y positions, with an ink limit of 70 and the
following values for each ink:

GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100

GRAY_INK_2=C
GRAY_VAL_2=72

GRAY_INK_3=LC
GRAY_VAL_3=51

GRAY_INK_4=Y
GRAY_VAL_4=17

GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=1
GRAY_SHADOW=1

GRAY_OVERLAP=0
GRAY_GAMMA=1

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

I just tried setting GRAY_OVERLAP even higher, all the way to 60, and
then the inks overlap sufficiently to create a smooth curve. But with
this amount of overlapping the LC ink comes too far out into the Y and
creates visible dots in the highlights. Not exactly what I wanted... 

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

Daniel,

The partition values seem to be too high.   Do you have a scan of the 
second calibration chart, with the default ink limit set to 70 so we 
can see where you set the partition values?  For comparison, take a 
look at Roy's default 1280-VM-GRAY descriptor file below.

Carl

N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=4
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100

GRAY_INK_2=C
GRAY_VAL_2=44

GRAY_INK_3=LC
GRAY_VAL_3=22

GRAY_INK_4=Y
GRAY_VAL_4=8

GRAY_INK_5=
GRAY_VAL_5=

GRAY_INK_6=
GRAY_VAL_6=

GRAY_INK_7=
GRAY_VAL_7=

GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=11
GRAY_SHADOW=11

GRAY_OVERLAP=50
GRAY_GAMMA=1
GRAY_CURVE=

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 07:30  AM, Daniel Staver wrote:

> I got QTR2 on RedHat8 working last night.
>
> I'm using a 2100 with the MIS UltraTones and have a problem with the
> profiling. I've followed the profiling process described in the
> documentation and this is the result:
>
> http://daniel.staver.no/img/qtr2problem1.jpg
>
> It seems like one ink is reduced too much before the next one kicks in,
> and I haven't really found any setting that helps. Using a very high
> value for GRAY_OVERLAP improves the curve a little, but doesn't really
> fix the problem. Using custom linearization values measured with my
> densitometer also helps, but again, not enough to give me a completely
> smooth curve.
>
> Any ideas what I can do to fix this?
>
> I'm using the K, C, LC and Y positions, with an ink limit of 70 and the
> following values for each ink:
>
> GRAY_INK_1=K
> GRAY_VAL_1=100
>
> GRAY_INK_2=C
> GRAY_VAL_2=72
>
> GRAY_INK_3=LC
> GRAY_VAL_3=51
>
> GRAY_INK_4=Y
> GRAY_VAL_4=17
>
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=1
> GRAY_SHADOW=1
>
> GRAY_OVERLAP=0
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
>
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no

Carl,

here's a scan of the chart after I set the ink limit to 70:
http://daniel.staver.no/img/qtrcalib1.jpg

Don't mind the measured values I've written there, my densitometer gives
me values totally unlike the values I typically see quoted here, but
seems to work well for linearization anyway.

The paper is EEM and the inks are Ultratones with Eboni black.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> The partition values seem to be too high.   Do you have a scan of the 
> second calibration chart, with the default ink limit set to 70 so we 
> can see where you set the partition values?  For comparison, take a 
> look at Roy's default 1280-VM-GRAY descriptor file below.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Martin Wesley wrote:

|Justin,
|
|That sounds great and I look forward to your info. You appear to be an
|experienced Linux user. For those of us who have never given Linux a try,
|can you point us towards some resources for learning how to do the install
|and set-up or is it self evident when you buy the software? I take it Red
|Hat is your flavor of choice.
|
|Also can you give us your opinion as to what is needed in terms of hardware
|for a Linux/QTR2 server. CPU speed, RAM and disk space requirements?
|
|Thanks,
|Martin


A Linux system is not trivial to build or maintain.  I would not 
recommend it to the un-initiated.  The good news is that there is TONS 
of documentation out there on the net.  Sure, Linux is complicated, but 
there is a huge community of people using  and documenting it.   As far 
as flavor of Linux distribution, this is a religious issue.  I've used 
many, but I had RedHat 9 discs at work, so I just grabbed them.  :)  
Mandrake is quite good for beginners also.

Most installation procedures are pretty straightforward nowadays, but 
you must be ready to tinker under the hood afterwards.  It helps to be 
comfortable using awkward command line interfaces and arcane text 
editors.  If you're not scared of big ugly config files and compiling 
your own software then you shouldn't have a problem maintaining a Linux box.

$500 will get you more than enough computer to start.  I haven't gotten 
QTR2 running yet, so I can't really asses how resource intensive it is.  
I can't imagine it'd be all that strenuous for a modern PC.  To give you 
an idea, I'm running RH9 on a P2 500mhz w/256MB ram, and a smallish 
harddrive.(10-20 gigs?).  I don't expect any problems.  I also tax this 
machine in other ways (web server and other stuff).

Can QTR2 be used with the Ultrachrome inks that come with the 2200?

Nick Pope, can you comment on the MIS carts for the 2200?  I wasn't 
aware replacement carts were out yet.  I'm assuming these are refill 
carts?  I'll be initially using epson ultrachrome carts, but would like 
to be using MIS UT inks asap.

|
|
|
|
|
|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
|
|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
|
|If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
same page.
|
|Please follow these basic guidelines:
|- Include your full name with your message.
|- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
|- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
keep them short.
|- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
|- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
|- Complete your Yahoo profile.
|- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage.
|
|
|
|
|Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|

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iD8DBQE/Ml0Ou7srlnPHEE8RAmNjAJ9AVpd331Bqr3Gg7eYS7albBbmCrACgi/Lj
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Daniel,

Looks about right.  I came up with approx. the same partition numbers  
using Apple's DigitalColor Meter utility on your scan.  Only other  
suggestion I have would be to try varying the GRAY_HIGHLIGHT and  
GRAY_SHADOW values.  If you start with minimal values of 0.01 for each  
and can get a smooth convex curve then linearization should work  
(However, I think you need absolute density data for the  
linearization.).  If not, it may be necessary to adjust the highlight  
and shadow values higher to get closer to an optimal curve before doing  
the linearization.

Carl

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 09:42  AM, Daniel Staver wrote:

> Carl,
>
> here's a scan of the chart after I set the ink limit to 70:
> http://daniel.staver.no/img/qtrcalib1.jpg
>
> Don't mind the measured values I've written there, my densitometer  
> gives
> me values totally unlike the values I typically see quoted here, but
> seems to work well for linearization anyway.
>
> The paper is EEM and the inks are Ultratones with Eboni black.
>
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
>
>> The partition values seem to be too high.   Do you have a scan of the
>> second calibration chart, with the default ink limit set to 70 so we
>> can see where you set the partition values?  For comparison, take a
>> look at Roy's default 1280-VM-GRAY descriptor file below.
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
> Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &  
> Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls  
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to  
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject  
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the  
> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to  
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi Daniel-

Carl is right, the GRAY_VAL's are way too high.  I suspect that you may have
missed the part where each value is relative to black, not relative to the
next darkest ink? Or maybe not- maybe the ink limits are too high?  On my
7000, with EEM, I got ink limits of 50-60.


Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, MA USA


on 8/7/03 7:30 AM, Daniel Staver wrote:

> I got QTR2 on RedHat8 working last night.
> 
> I'm using a 2100 with the MIS UltraTones and have a problem with the
> profiling. I've followed the profiling process described in the
> documentation and this is the result:
> 
> http://daniel.staver.no/img/qtr2problem1.jpg
> 
> It seems like one ink is reduced too much before the next one kicks in,
> and I haven't really found any setting that helps. Using a very high
> value for GRAY_OVERLAP improves the curve a little, but doesn't really
> fix the problem. Using custom linearization values measured with my
> densitometer also helps, but again, not enough to give me a completely
> smooth curve.
> 
> Any ideas what I can do to fix this?
> 
> I'm using the K, C, LC and Y positions, with an ink limit of 70 and the
> following values for each ink:
> 
> GRAY_INK_1=K
> GRAY_VAL_1=100
> 
> GRAY_INK_2=C
> GRAY_VAL_2=72
> 
> GRAY_INK_3=LC
> GRAY_VAL_3=51
> 
> GRAY_INK_4=Y
> GRAY_VAL_4=17
> 
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=1
> GRAY_SHADOW=1
> 
> GRAY_OVERLAP=0
> GRAY_GAMMA=1
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 7:07 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2
>
(snip earlier)
>
> A Linux system is not trivial to build or maintain.  I would not
> recommend it to the un-initiated.  The good news is that there is TONS
> of documentation out there on the net.  Sure, Linux is complicated, but
> there is a huge community of people using  and documenting it.   As far
> as flavor of Linux distribution, this is a religious issue.  I've used
> many, but I had RedHat 9 discs at work, so I just grabbed them.  :)
> Mandrake is quite good for beginners also.
>
> Most installation procedures are pretty straightforward nowadays, but
> you must be ready to tinker under the hood afterwards.  It helps to be
> comfortable using awkward command line interfaces and arcane text
> editors.  If you're not scared of big ugly config files and compiling
> your own software then you shouldn't have a problem maintaining a
> Linux box.

Justin,

It's been awhile but I spent may years working in DOS and while I know
UNIX/Linux is more complicated, the environment will not be completely
strange. Haven't compiled a program since Fortran on key punch cards but
maybe it will come back to me.<G> I will do some researching and see if I
want to fiddle with it. Like most new or small user based operating systems
I imagine device drivers are an issue but for a print server the demands
should not be very great.
>
> $500 will get you more than enough computer to start.  I haven't gotten
> QTR2 running yet, so I can't really asses how resource intensive it is.
> I can't imagine it'd be all that strenuous for a modern PC.  To give you
> an idea, I'm running RH9 on a P2 500mhz w/256MB ram, and a smallish
> harddrive.(10-20 gigs?).  I don't expect any problems.  I also tax this
> machine in other ways (web server and other stuff).

That's very good to know. I have and older 600MHz AMD system running Win 98
as a scanning server for my Howtek. Perhaps I can set it up as a dual boot
system to do double duty.

Thanks for the info,
Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html


(snip)

Hi Martin,

If you decide to build a linux box go with the Red Hat distribution. All of
the pieces should fit together including Roy's patch. Mandrake is prettier
and for general purpose things is an easier distribution to work with but
their implementation of the cups driver makes installation of  QTR2
extremely difficult. I am going to try SuSe next since I have the discs on
hand.  If SuSe doesn't work then I guess I'll spring for RedHat. I'll see if
I can make freeBSD work as well.  In some ways that would be the best way to
go since there would be no variables due to the different implementations
within distributions.

The linux learning curve is steep but not too tall. Your comments about
fortran brought back not too fond memories of writing a quality control
package for a clinical laboratory.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:25 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2




  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Justin Florentine [mailto:justin@...]
  > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 7:07 AM
  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2
  >
  (snip earlier)
  >
  > A Linux system is not trivial to build or maintain.  I would not
  > recommend it to the un-initiated.  The good news is that there is TONS
  > of documentation out there on the net.  Sure, Linux is complicated, but
  > there is a huge community of people using  and documenting it.   As far
  > as flavor of Linux distribution, this is a religious issue.  I've used
  > many, but I had RedHat 9 discs at work, so I just grabbed them.  :)
  > Mandrake is quite good for beginners also.
  >
  > Most installation procedures are pretty straightforward nowadays, but
  > you must be ready to tinker under the hood afterwards.  It helps to be
  > comfortable using awkward command line interfaces and arcane text
  > editors.  If you're not scared of big ugly config files and compiling
  > your own software then you shouldn't have a problem maintaining a
  > Linux box.

  Justin,

  It's been awhile but I spent may years working in DOS and while I know
  UNIX/Linux is more complicated, the environment will not be completely
  strange. Haven't compiled a program since Fortran on key punch cards but
  maybe it will come back to me.<G> I will do some researching and see if I
  want to fiddle with it. Like most new or small user based operating
systems
  I imagine device drivers are an issue but for a print server the demands
  should not be very great.
  >
  > $500 will get you more than enough computer to start.  I haven't gotten
  > QTR2 running yet, so I can't really asses how resource intensive it is.
  > I can't imagine it'd be all that strenuous for a modern PC.  To give you
  > an idea, I'm running RH9 on a P2 500mhz w/256MB ram, and a smallish
  > harddrive.(10-20 gigs?).  I don't expect any problems.  I also tax this
  > machine in other ways (web server and other stuff).

  That's very good to know. I have and older 600MHz AMD system running Win
98
  as a scanning server for my Howtek. Perhaps I can set it up as a dual boot
  system to do double duty.

  Thanks for the info,
  Martin Wesley
  http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html


  (snip)



        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              ADVERTISEMENT




  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Daniel,

I'm still wondering about your high partition values.  Looking at your 
scan with ink limit=70 it appears that LK would have a partition value 
of about 55% relative to K, if LK were used as the only other gray ink. 
  When I did my 2200 EEM profiles with the UC inks my default ink limit 
was 75 and the LK partition value was 35%.  I don't know if the UT K vs 
UC K is the reason for the difference or something else.  Are you also 
using the 1440x720 Highest Quality resolution setting for printing?  I 
know that these profiles are resolution dependent and quite different 
results would be obtained with other driver settings.

Carl

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 09:42  AM, Daniel Staver wrote:

> Carl,
>
> here's a scan of the chart after I set the ink limit to 70:
> http://daniel.staver.no/img/qtrcalib1.jpg
>
> Don't mind the measured values I've written there, my densitometer 
> gives
> me values totally unlike the values I typically see quoted here, but
> seems to work well for linearization anyway.
>
> The paper is EEM and the inks are Ultratones with Eboni black.
>
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
>
>> The partition values seem to be too high.   Do you have a scan of the
>> second calibration chart, with the default ink limit set to 70 so we
>> can see where you set the partition values?  For comparison, take a
>> look at Roy's default 1280-VM-GRAY descriptor file below.
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger L Sopher [mailto:rlsopher@...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:50 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2
>
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> If you decide to build a linux box go with the Red Hat
> distribution. All of
> the pieces should fit together including Roy's patch. Mandrake is prettier
> and for general purpose things is an easier distribution to work with but
> their implementation of the cups driver makes installation of  QTR2
> extremely difficult. I am going to try SuSe next since I have the discs on
> hand.  If SuSe doesn't work then I guess I'll spring for RedHat.
> I'll see if
> I can make freeBSD work as well.  In some ways that would be the
> best way to
> go since there would be no variables due to the different implementations
> within distributions.

Roger,

Thanks for the info. Definitely makes sense at this point to stay as close
to what Roy has done as possible. I notice there are standard and
"Professional" versions of Red Hat 9 available with a ~$100 price
difference. Any benefit to going for the pro version?
>
> The linux learning curve is steep but not too tall. Your comments about
> fortran brought back not too fond memories of writing a quality control
> package for a clinical laboratory.

Yeah I entered college engineering very interested in computers but after
semesters on IBM key punch machines and clunky time shared terminals, I
graduated hating them. Wasn't until I got a PC on my desk to play with that
I came to love the beasts.

Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html


(snip earlier)
>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Good to know on the CUPS differences Roger, nice catch.

All the RedHat software is pretty much the same, what you usually get 
with the Professional edition is better support.

The software itself is free.  If you can bear it, you can sit through 
the downloads of the CD ISOimages from
http://www.linuxiso.org which will give you a disc image that you can 
burn to CD.  Once you have them all you can boot right off of them into 
the installer program.  BANG!  Free OS OS.

Martin Wesley wrote:

|>-----Original Message-----
|>From: Roger L Sopher [mailto:rlsopher@...]
|>Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:50 AM
|>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
|>Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2
|>
|>
|>Hi Martin,
|>
|>If you decide to build a linux box go with the Red Hat
|>distribution. All of
|>the pieces should fit together including Roy's patch. Mandrake is prettier
|>and for general purpose things is an easier distribution to work with but
|>their implementation of the cups driver makes installation of  QTR2
|>extremely difficult. I am going to try SuSe next since I have the discs on
|>hand.  If SuSe doesn't work then I guess I'll spring for RedHat.
|>I'll see if
|>I can make freeBSD work as well.  In some ways that would be the
|>best way to
|>go since there would be no variables due to the different implementations
|>within distributions.
|
|
|Roger,
|
|Thanks for the info. Definitely makes sense at this point to stay as close
|to what Roy has done as possible. I notice there are standard and
|"Professional" versions of Red Hat 9 available with a ~$100 price
|difference. Any benefit to going for the pro version?
|
|>The linux learning curve is steep but not too tall. Your comments about
|>fortran brought back not too fond memories of writing a quality control
|>package for a clinical laboratory.
|
|
|Yeah I entered college engineering very interested in computers but after
|semesters on IBM key punch machines and clunky time shared terminals, I
|graduated hating them. Wasn't until I got a PC on my desk to play with that
|I came to love the beasts.
|
|Martin Wesley
|http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html
|
|
|(snip earlier)
|
|
|
|
|
|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
|
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|

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The "Pro" package is aimed at the server end of things. I think you could
get by with the standard package but might have to down load one or two
packages from the web site. Not a big deal.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
  Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 12:37 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2


  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: Roger L Sopher [mailto:rlsopher@...]
  > Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 9:50 AM
  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Linux and QTR2
  >
  >


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carl,

I was using 1440x1440 Highest Quality. I tried printing the calibration
chart again with 1440x720 HQ, but same result... The only other thing I
can imagine is that there is still some sort of unwanted profiling with
the postscript driver I'm using in Windows to print to the Linux
machine. I make sure to use 'Don't color manage this document' when I
open the chart in Photoshop, and print using 'Same as source'.

I would try to print directly from linux to compare, but for some reason
that doesn't work. I just get 'No pages found'.

Actually the prints look very good when I use GRAY_OVERLAP=60, the only
issue I have with that is some slight dotting from the LC in the
highlights. If I could just move the endpoint of the LC curve a bit
inwards everything would be perfect.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> Daniel,
> 
> I'm still wondering about your high partition values.  
> Looking at your 
> scan with ink limit=70 it appears that LK would have a 
> partition value 
> of about 55% relative to K, if LK were used as the only other 
> gray ink. 
>   When I did my 2200 EEM profiles with the UC inks my default 
> ink limit 
> was 75 and the LK partition value was 35%.  I don't know if 
> the UT K vs 
> UC K is the reason for the difference or something else.  Are 
> you also 
> using the 1440x720 Highest Quality resolution setting for 
> printing?  I 
> know that these profiles are resolution dependent and quite different 
> results would be obtained with other driver settings.

Daniel,

I guess I'm stumped on this one.  I'm surprised that you got the same  
results with 1440x1440 and 1440x720 HQ.  When I first tried doing a  
calibration at 1440x1440 on my 2200 the ink just flooded the paper at  
the higher densities, so our systems seem to be behaving differently.

Carl

On Thursday, August 7, 2003, at 06:55  PM, Daniel Staver wrote:

> Carl,
>
> I was using 1440x1440 Highest Quality. I tried printing the calibration
> chart again with 1440x720 HQ, but same result... The only other thing I
> can imagine is that there is still some sort of unwanted profiling with
> the postscript driver I'm using in Windows to print to the Linux
> machine. I make sure to use 'Don't color manage this document' when I
> open the chart in Photoshop, and print using 'Same as source'.
>
> I would try to print directly from linux to compare, but for some  
> reason
> that doesn't work. I just get 'No pages found'.
>
> Actually the prints look very good when I use GRAY_OVERLAP=60, the only
> issue I have with that is some slight dotting from the LC in the
> highlights. If I could just move the endpoint of the LC curve a bit
> inwards everything would be perfect.
>
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
>
>> Daniel,
>>
>> I'm still wondering about your high partition values.
>> Looking at your
>> scan with ink limit=70 it appears that LK would have a
>> partition value
>> of about 55% relative to K, if LK were used as the only other
>> gray ink.
>>   When I did my 2200 EEM profiles with the UC inks my default
>> ink limit
>> was 75 and the LK partition value was 35%.  I don't know if
>> the UT K vs
>> UC K is the reason for the difference or something else.  Are
>> you also
>> using the 1440x720 Highest Quality resolution setting for
>> printing?  I
>> know that these profiles are resolution dependent and quite different
>> results would be obtained with other driver settings.
>
>
>
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Are you using the show curve function when you create the curve?  If you do
this, you get an admittedly crude representation of all of the ink curves.
Why not try reducing the partition values, look at the resultant curves, and
see if you think it will help.  The final test, of course, will be the step
wedge, and whether the steps are even.


Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, MA USA


on 8/7/03 6:55 PM, Daniel Staver wrote:

> Carl,
> 
> I was using 1440x1440 Highest Quality. I tried printing the calibration
> chart again with 1440x720 HQ, but same result... The only other thing I
> can imagine is that there is still some sort of unwanted profiling with
> the postscript driver I'm using in Windows to print to the Linux
> machine. I make sure to use 'Don't color manage this document' when I
> open the chart in Photoshop, and print using 'Same as source'.
> 
> I would try to print directly from linux to compare, but for some reason
> that doesn't work. I just get 'No pages found'.
> 
> Actually the prints look very good when I use GRAY_OVERLAP=60, the only
> issue I have with that is some slight dotting from the LC in the
> highlights. If I could just move the endpoint of the LC curve a bit
> inwards everything would be perfect.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
> 
>> Daniel,
>> 
>> I'm still wondering about your high partition values.
>> Looking at your 
>> scan with ink limit=70 it appears that LK would have a
>> partition value 
>> of about 55% relative to K, if LK were used as the only other
>> gray ink. 
>>   When I did my 2200 EEM profiles with the UC inks my default
>> ink limit 
>> was 75 and the LK partition value was 35%.  I don't know if
>> the UT K vs 
>> UC K is the reason for the difference or something else.  Are
>> you also 
>> using the 1440x720 Highest Quality resolution setting for
>> printing?  I 
>> know that these profiles are resolution dependent and quite different
>> results would be obtained with other driver settings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Sorry, it seems my post was a bit vague on the 2200.

What I meant is that I am running a 2200 with original Epson inks.  
I'm quite happy with the BW output but I have nothing to compare it 
to.  So I am ordering the MIS inks for my old 1270 collecting dust 
in the closet.  I'd like to see what QTR2 + MIS-FS inks can do in my 
old 1270.

I'm an old hand at Linux so I figured I could get it to work.  I 
will try to document my steps.

-Nick

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Justin 
Florentine <justin@b...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Martin Wesley wrote:
> 
> |Justin,
> |
> |That sounds great and I look forward to your info. You appear to 
be an
> |experienced Linux user. For those of us who have never given 
Linux a try,
> |can you point us towards some resources for learning how to do 
the install
> |and set-up or is it self evident when you buy the software? I 
take it Red
> |Hat is your flavor of choice.
> |
> |Also can you give us your opinion as to what is needed in terms 
of hardware
> |for a Linux/QTR2 server. CPU speed, RAM and disk space 
requirements?
> |
> |Thanks,
> |Martin
> 
> 
> A Linux system is not trivial to build or maintain.  I would not 
> recommend it to the un-initiated.  The good news is that there is 
TONS 
> of documentation out there on the net.  Sure, Linux is 
complicated, but 
> there is a huge community of people using  and documenting it.   
As far 
> as flavor of Linux distribution, this is a religious issue.  I've 
used 
> many, but I had RedHat 9 discs at work, so I just grabbed 
them.  :)  
> Mandrake is quite good for beginners also.
> 
> Most installation procedures are pretty straightforward nowadays, 
but 
> you must be ready to tinker under the hood afterwards.  It helps 
to be 
> comfortable using awkward command line interfaces and arcane text 
> editors.  If you're not scared of big ugly config files and 
compiling 
> your own software then you shouldn't have a problem maintaining a 
Linux box.
> 
> $500 will get you more than enough computer to start.  I haven't 
gotten 
> QTR2 running yet, so I can't really asses how resource intensive 
it is.  
> I can't imagine it'd be all that strenuous for a modern PC.  To 
give you 
> an idea, I'm running RH9 on a P2 500mhz w/256MB ram, and a 
smallish 
> harddrive.(10-20 gigs?).  I don't expect any problems.  I also tax 
this 
> machine in other ways (web server and other stuff).
> 
> Can QTR2 be used with the Ultrachrome inks that come with the 2200?
> 
> Nick Pope, can you comment on the MIS carts for the 2200?  I 
wasn't 
> aware replacement carts were out yet.  I'm assuming these are 
refill 
> carts?  I'll be initially using epson ultrachrome carts, but would 
like 
> to be using MIS UT inks asap.
> 
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls 
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> |
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> |
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wish to 
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this 
> same page.
> |
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> |- Include your full name with your message.
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header.
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> |
> |
> 
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Carl,

I did some more experiments using the 1280 values. Even when the
endpoint of the LC curve moves to 16% I can still see dotting from the
LC ink between 15% and 30% on the stepwedge. I also got the same problem
with the overlapping of the inks as I had with my original values. The
only thing that fixes the problem is setting GRAY_OVERLAP to 50 or
higher.

Except for the dotting in the highlights I managed to get what appeared
to be good looking stepwedges using my original values and a
GRAY_OVERLAP of 60. Unfortunately, making prints with real images rather
than stepwedges revealed some posterization.

I strongly suspect that the postscript driver I'm using is interfering
again, since I get such poor results and because the values I'm getting
are inconsistent with yours. The MIS LK ink is supposed to match the
density of the original Ultrachrome ink.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> I made a couple of test profiles by first modifying Roy's 
> 1280_VM_gray 
> file as one example of a UT 2200 profile (no toner) and also used the 
> values you gave in an earlier post for the second sample UT 2200 
> profile.  The two curve plots and corresponding profile descriptor 
> files are below.  I can see your problem with the LC curve extending 
> too far down and as Bill Morse suggested you might want to 
> try lowering 
> the partition values to something more like Roy's values for the 1280 
> profile to keep the LC out of the highlight area.

Daniel,

Are you seeing this highlight dotting without using a loupe?  I'm only  
using the Epson UC K, LK and LM and LC inks for toning with the 2200  
and I can only see highlight dotting with the aid of a 4x loupe.  Is  
the density of the UT LC position gray ink greater than the Epson LK  
ink?

Carl

On Sunday, August 10, 2003, at 09:18  AM, Daniel Staver wrote:

> Carl,
>
> I did some more experiments using the 1280 values. Even when the
> endpoint of the LC curve moves to 16% I can still see dotting from the
> LC ink between 15% and 30% on the stepwedge. I also got the same  
> problem
> with the overlapping of the inks as I had with my original values. The
> only thing that fixes the problem is setting GRAY_OVERLAP to 50 or
> higher.
>
> Except for the dotting in the highlights I managed to get what appeared
> to be good looking stepwedges using my original values and a
> GRAY_OVERLAP of 60. Unfortunately, making prints with real images  
> rather
> than stepwedges revealed some posterization.
>
> I strongly suspect that the postscript driver I'm using is interfering
> again, since I get such poor results and because the values I'm getting
> are inconsistent with yours. The MIS LK ink is supposed to match the
> density of the original Ultrachrome ink.
>
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
>
>> I made a couple of test profiles by first modifying Roy's
>> 1280_VM_gray
>> file as one example of a UT 2200 profile (no toner) and also used the
>> values you gave in an earlier post for the second sample UT 2200
>> profile.  The two curve plots and corresponding profile descriptor
>> files are below.  I can see your problem with the LC curve extending
>> too far down and as Bill Morse suggested you might want to
>> try lowering
>> the partition values to something more like Roy's values for the 1280
>> profile to keep the LC out of the highlight area.
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor  
> ---------------------~-->
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> http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/ucIolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
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>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish  
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> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to  
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> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject  
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> various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to  
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I can clearly see the dotting without a loupe, although I have to be
fairly close to the print to see it. It's only visible between 15-30%,
from 15-0% the print is dotless.

The LK ink is somewhere in between the UT C and UT LC inks in density.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no 

> Are you seeing this highlight dotting without using a loupe?  
> I'm only  
> using the Epson UC K, LK and LM and LC inks for toning with the 2200  
> and I can only see highlight dotting with the aid of a 4x loupe.  Is  
> the density of the UT LC position gray ink greater than the Epson LK  
> ink?

I set the density to 2.000 in the driver and suddenly everything worked
much better. A print of the Ink Pattern Page gives me values exactly
like the 1280 example file, and also LK values exactly like Carl's. The
curve immediately looked much smoother, and most of the posterization is
gone.

I have to wait for my densitometer to recharge, then I'll linearize a
warm and a cool curve and make further test prints before I can confirm
100% that everything works like it should.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no