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Which printer for B&W

Which printer for B&W

2004-12-18 by malcolm_rchrdsn

I have just joined this forum and would like some advice please. I 
want to start doing some serious B&W printing and have realised that 
I need a dedicated B&W printer. I currently have an Epson 1290. If I 
get another printer, should I use the 1290 with someting like the 
MIS system and get a second colour printer or should I use the 1290 
for my colour work and get a printer such as the Epson C86 with the 
MIS EZ system? Thanks in advance.

Malcolm

RE: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-18 by Paul Roark

Malcolm,

What size prints you want to make is an important factor.  The C86 can only
handle letter-size.  The 1290 allows wider.  (Do you still have 1160s where
you are?  That would be another option.)  The 1290 takes the UT2 and 1280
curves.  

See my index at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ for information on a number
of the inksets I've work with.

Good luck with you printing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: malcolm_rchrdsn [mailto:malaise@...] 
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:17 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W




I have just joined this forum and would like some advice please. I 
want to start doing some serious B&W printing and have realised that 
I need a dedicated B&W printer. I currently have an Epson 1290. If I 
get another printer, should I use the 1290 with someting like the 
MIS system and get a second colour printer or should I use the 1290 
for my colour work and get a printer such as the Epson C86 with the 
MIS EZ system? Thanks in advance.

Malcolm









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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
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FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
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MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
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Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-18 by malcolm_rchrdsn

Thanks Paul,

I am leaning toward using my 1290 for B&W because I can then print 
up to A3+ if needed. I rarely print above A4 in colour so it 
probably makes most sense to keep the 1290 for B&W and get a smaller 
printer for colour. Do you agree? I live in Australia and can't find 
a local distributor for MIS products but I presume they can be 
shipped.

Regards,

Malcolm
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Malcolm,
> 
> What size prints you want to make is an important factor.  The C86 
can only
> handle letter-size.  The 1290 allows wider.  (Do you still have 
1160s where
> you are?  That would be another option.)  The 1290 takes the UT2 
and 1280
> curves.  
> 
> See my index at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ for information on 
a number
> of the inksets I've work with.
> 
> Good luck with you printing.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: malcolm_rchrdsn [mailto:malaise@n...] 
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:17 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have just joined this forum and would like some advice please. I 
> want to start doing some serious B&W printing and have realised 
that 
> I need a dedicated B&W printer. I currently have an Epson 1290. If 
I 
> get another printer, should I use the 1290 with someting like the 
> MIS system and get a second colour printer or should I use the 
1290 
> for my colour work and get a printer such as the Epson C86 with 
the 
> MIS EZ system? Thanks in advance.
> 
> Malcolm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
ADVISED OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-18 by Michael Hung

Get a new R800 for colour and use the 1290 for b/w. The 1290 with
colour dye ink's not very good anyway. 

Michael

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "malcolm_rchrdsn"
<malaise@n...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Thanks Paul,
> 
> I am leaning toward using my 1290 for B&W because I can then print 
> up to A3+ if needed. I rarely print above A4 in colour so it 
> probably makes most sense to keep the 1290 for B&W and get a smaller 
> printer for colour. Do you agree? I live in Australia and can't find 
> a local distributor for MIS products but I presume they can be 
> shipped.

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-18 by scott_now_coming

If you want a "small printer" for color. I recommend the Epson R800.

The Hp printers maybe a little better, color wise, but the ink isn't 
waterproof and your paper choices are limited to about 3 if you want 
longevity.

Good luck with your decision.


Scott



--- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "malcolm_rchrdsn" 
<malaise@n...> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Paul,
> 
> I am leaning toward using my 1290 for B&W because I can then print 
> up to A3+ if needed. I rarely print above A4 in colour so it 
> probably makes most sense to keep the 1290 for B&W and get a 
smaller 
> printer for colour. Do you agree? I live in Australia and can't 
find 
> a local distributor for MIS products but I presume they can be 
> shipped.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Malcolm
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Malcolm,
> > 
> > What size prints you want to make is an important factor.  The 
C86 
> can only
> > handle letter-size.  The 1290 allows wider.  (Do you still have 
> 1160s where
> > you are?  That would be another option.)  The 1290 takes the UT2 
> and 1280
> > curves.  
> > 
> > See my index at http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/ for information on 
> a number
> > of the inksets I've work with.
> > 
> > Good luck with you printing.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: malcolm_rchrdsn [mailto:malaise@n...] 
> > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:17 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I have just joined this forum and would like some advice please. 
I 
> > want to start doing some serious B&W printing and have realised 
> that 
> > I need a dedicated B&W printer. I currently have an Epson 1290. 
If 
> I 
> > get another printer, should I use the 1290 with someting like the 
> > MIS system and get a second colour printer or should I use the 
> 1290 
> > for my colour work and get a printer such as the Epson C86 with 
> the 
> > MIS EZ system? Thanks in advance.
> > 
> > Malcolm
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages 
> to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
> and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group 
> Owner and
> > Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
> section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE 
> PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
> AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU
> > FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
> EXEMPLARY
> > DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
PROFITS,
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
> THE  "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
> ADVISED OF THE
> > POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
> INABILITY
> > TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> ACCESS TO OR
> > ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
> CONDUCT OF ANY
> > THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
> OTHER
> > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-18 by Sam McCandless

Malcolm might want to ask about the color printer on

<archivalcolor@yahoogroups.com>

and also, if he is on a Mac, on

<macepsonlist@yahoogroups.com>

but I don't suggest this wider net because I disagree with Michael 
about the R800; I don't.
--
Sam
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Get a new R800 for colour and use the 1290 for b/w. The 1290 with
>colour dye ink's not very good anyway.
>
>Michael
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "malcolm_rchrdsn"
><malaise@n...> wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks Paul,
>>
>>  I am leaning toward using my 1290 for B&W because I can then print
>>  up to A3+ if needed. I rarely print above A4 in colour so it
>>  probably makes most sense to keep the 1290 for B&W and get a smaller
>>  printer for colour. Do you agree? I live in Australia and can't find
>>  a local distributor for MIS products but I presume they can be
>  > shipped.

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-18 by The Wogster

scott_now_coming wrote:
> 
> 
> If you want a "small printer" for color. I recommend the Epson R800.
> 
> The Hp printers maybe a little better, color wise, but the ink isn't 
> waterproof and your paper choices are limited to about 3 if you want 
> longevity.
> 

Which 3 papers.....

W

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-18 by scott_now_coming

HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High Gloss.

Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
nput behind glass.

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, The Wogster 
<wogsterca@y...> wrote:
> scott_now_coming wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > If you want a "small printer" for color. I recommend the Epson 
R800.
> > 
> > The Hp printers maybe a little better, color wise, but the ink 
isn't 
> > waterproof and your paper choices are limited to about 3 if you 
want 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > longevity.
> > 
> 
> Which 3 papers.....
> 
> W

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by The Wogster

scott_now_coming wrote:
> 
> 
> HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High Gloss.
> 
> Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
> nput behind glass.
> 

How glossy is the regular glossy? I never liked the super glossy photo 
papers, always preferred Ilford's pearl finish for AgBr prints.....

W

RE: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by Paul Roark

> HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High Gloss.
> 
> Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
> nput behind glass.
> 

This caught my eye, and I couldn't resist re-posting part of the fade test I
did in March.

After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson Premium Semigloss
printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt Print Shield
and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following starting and
ending spectrophotometer readings:

Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58

After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58


HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79

After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77

So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe good enough
for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W pigments.  How
all this translates into actual fading in display I don't know.  However, if
one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I think the
predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by scott_now_coming

Hi Paul,

I'm curious and have been meaning to ask this.

Are the MIS inks waterproof (resistant, whatever) on a paper such as 
Epson Premium Lustre, as are the Epson UC inks?

I can take an R800 print on EpPrmLstr, hold it under water, rub my 
fingers over the paper surface and the inks don't move.

Now, obviously, you can't do that with the HP dyes and their papers.

Thanks,

Scott


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High 
Gloss.
> > 
> > Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
> > nput behind glass.
> > 
> 
> This caught my eye, and I couldn't resist re-posting part of the 
fade test I
> did in March.
> 
> After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson Premium 
Semigloss
> printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt Print 
Shield
> and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following 
starting and
> ending spectrophotometer readings:
> 
> Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> 
> After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> 
> 
> HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
> 
> After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
> 
> So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe good 
enough
> for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W 
pigments.  How
> all this translates into actual fading in display I don't know.  
However, if
> one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I think 
the
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by scott_now_coming

W,

The Gloss HP is like a glossy RC print. Too much gloss for my taste.

The original HP Premium Plus Matte Photo paper is closer to a fiber-
based wet print. Now, HP is calling this "Satin", it was never a 
matte surface, but whatever one wants to call it, I prefer it.

Sometimes I like a High Gloss finish for a color photograph, but 
never a B&W image.

Scott


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, The Wogster 
<wogsterca@y...> wrote:
> scott_now_coming wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High 
Gloss.
> > 
> > Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
> > nput behind glass.
> > 
> 
> How glossy is the regular glossy? I never liked the super glossy 
photo 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> papers, always preferred Ilford's pearl finish for AgBr prints.....
> 
> W

RE: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by Paul Roark

Scott,

>Are the MIS inks waterproof (resistant, whatever) on a paper such as 
>Epson Premium Lustre, as are the Epson UC inks?

>I can take an R800 print on EpPrmLstr, hold it under water, rub my 
>fingers over the paper surface and the inks don't move.

I don't know if the MIS inks are as waterproof as the R800, but I just took
a test strip of MIS UT ink on Premium Semigloss and put it under the faucet.
There was no apparent running on the ink.  I rubbed the inked parts with a
finger and no smearing appeared.  However, when I rubbed it with a paper
towel to dry it there was a slight amount of smearing.  So, it may be that
it's water proof, but not abrasion proof when wet.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High 
Gloss.
> > 
> > Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
> > nput behind glass.
> > 
> 
> This caught my eye, and I couldn't resist re-posting part of the 
fade test I
> did in March.
> 
> After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson Premium 
Semigloss
> printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt Print 
Shield
> and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following 
starting and
> ending spectrophotometer readings:
> 
> Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> 
> After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> 
> 
> HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
> 
> After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
> 
> So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe good 
enough
> for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W 
pigments.  How
> all this translates into actual fading in display I don't know.  
However, if
> one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I think 
the
> predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com






Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by Seth Rossman

Paul I agree on the pigments (and am not an HP fan anyway), but was the HP
paper also sprayed with Print Shield?  Other tests have shown that is a
factor also.

Seth

=-----Original Message-----
=From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] 
=
=After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson 
=Premium Semigloss
=printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt 
=Print Shield
=and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following 
=
=
=Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
=
=After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
=
=
=HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
=
=After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
=
=So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe 
=good enough
=for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W 
=pigments.  How
=all this translates into actual fading in display I don't 
=know.  However, if
=one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I think the
=predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
=
=Paul
=www.PaulRoark.com 
=
=
=
=
=------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
=--------------------~--> 
=Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
=Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
=http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
=---------------------------------------------------------------
=-----~-> 
=
=Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
=resources as they are often being updated.
=
=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
=
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RE: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by Paul Roark

Seth,

>... was the HP paper also sprayed with Print Shield?  
>Other tests have shown that is a factor also.

I don't think the HP sample was sprayed.  It was supplied by someone else.

The spray is a factor.  However while it appears to make a major difference
with Epson UC pigments -- about 30% improvement in my tests -- it only seems
to add about 10% to the lightfastness of MIS pigments.  So, the difference
would still be dramatic.

Actually, that test had a non-sprayed sample of UT inks on Premium
Semigloss.  The difference was that the magenta channel did drop one unit.
The C, Y, and visual density were still at their original readings.  (Which,
of course, simply means the changes were too little for the X-Rite to
measure in this readout mode.)  However, the drop in the magenta channel
would not happen with the current generation of UT inks.  The old magenta
pigment, which was responsible for a number of problems in addition to
fading the fastest, has been totally removed from the entire family of UT
inks since the March test.  The new pigment, like carbon, actually shows a
slight increase in density in 600 hour tests on some papers.  So, the new
mix is much better than the older one, which already beat every inkset it
was compared to in my tests.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com






=-----Original Message-----
=From: Paul Roark [mailto:paul.roark@...] 
=
=After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson 
=Premium Semigloss
=printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt 
=Print Shield
=and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following 
=
=
=Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
=
=After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
=
=
=HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
=
=After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
=
=So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe 
=good enough
=for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W 
=pigments.  How
=all this translates into actual fading in display I don't 
=know.  However, if
=one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I think the
=predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
=
=Paul
=www.PaulRoark.com 
=
=
=
=
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=posts may be removed from the membership.
=- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
=rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
=decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, 
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=THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
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=GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, 
=INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, 
=INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
=GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  
="OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
=HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
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Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by The Wogster

scott_now_coming wrote:
> 
> W,
> 
> The Gloss HP is like a glossy RC print. Too much gloss for my taste.
> 
> The original HP Premium Plus Matte Photo paper is closer to a fiber-
> based wet print. Now, HP is calling this "Satin", it was never a 
> matte surface, but whatever one wants to call it, I prefer it.
> 
> Sometimes I like a High Gloss finish for a color photograph, but 
> never a B&W image.
> 

Interesting, just visited the HP website for here in Canada, they list 
the following:

C6590A HP premium plus photo paper matte
C6590AC HP premium plus photo paper matte
C6579A  HP premium plus photo paper glossy
C6579AC HP premium plus photo paper glossy

One thing they seem to be doing that is irritating though, the printer 
(Deskjet 842C)handles paper up to Index 110lb / 200gsm, and now they 
specify paper as so many mil thickness, so is 10 mil within the 
capabilites of the printer or not????  According to HP it's listed for 
this particular printers supplies, but according to a conversion chart I 
found online, 10 mil is Index 150lb / 250gsm.

I wonder about other papers then, like the Kodak Ultima Picture paper 
and Ilford Classic Gallerie papers (240-250gsm)  The Kodak is stated as 
compatable but it's 270gsm.  There is a 180 degree turn inside the 
printer, so I see why stiffness is an issue. I wonder though, in the 
last 2-3 years have they made photopaper less stiff for a given 
thickness.  You can bend a fairly thick paper to the same curve, 
including traditional photo paper, so the question is why the relatively 
low thickness limit?

W

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by The Wogster

Paul Roark wrote:
>>HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High Gloss.
>>
>>Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
>>nput behind glass.
>>
> 
> 
> This caught my eye, and I couldn't resist re-posting part of the fade test I
> did in March.
> 
> After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson Premium Semigloss
> printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt Print Shield
> and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following starting and
> ending spectrophotometer readings:
> 
> Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> 
> After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> 
> 
> HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
> 
> After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
> 
> So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe good enough
> for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W pigments.  How
> all this translates into actual fading in display I don't know.  However, if
> one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I think the
> predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
> 

Dumb question, How does 600 hours in the tester compare to time on the 
wall?  Prints I am planning, are destined for the wall in the home 
office, this room is at roughly 43\ufffd North, and has a north facing 
basement window, so no strong sunlight will hit this wall.  As for HP 
some of the black inks are partly or mostly pigment based, so a BO print 
would be more fast then a colour print.

W

RE: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by Paul Roark

I have no idea how my 600 hours tests translate into hours of display life
on the wall.  I leave such predictions to the professionals like Wilhelm.
Frankly, I'm very skeptical of such predicts because the conditions vary so
much.  Also, I suspect their 30% fade end point is too much and does not
tell us what to expect in our real world use of the images.

My experience with the past pigments was that the hybrids (including the
original Piezo and MIS VM generations) claimed very long lives, but the
fading of the dye components showed quickly on the walls.  In my tests the
initial fade was also quick, but after the dyes burned off the rate became
rather linear and much slower.  So, just comparing the end points really
didn't show that the changes were "front-loaded" and would show up quickly.

So, the bottom line is that I mostly do what I call "initial fade" tests and
then only to get comparisons.  I think this allows me to at least select the
best that is available to me with some confidence that they are not being
totally over-hyped.  It also allows me to see which papers do the best.  How
good the Epson Premium Semigloss would do, for example, was a surprise.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: The Wogster [mailto:wogsterca@yahoo.ca] 
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 8:42 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W


Paul Roark wrote:
>>HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High Gloss.
>>
>>Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
>>nput behind glass.
>>
> 
> 
> This caught my eye, and I couldn't resist re-posting part of the fade test
I
> did in March.
> 
> After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson Premium Semigloss
> printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt Print Shield
> and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following starting and
> ending spectrophotometer readings:
> 
> Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> 
> After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> 
> 
> HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
> 
> After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
> 
> So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe good enough
> for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W pigments.  How
> all this translates into actual fading in display I don't know.  However,
if
> one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I think the
> predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
> 

Dumb question, How does 600 hours in the tester compare to time on the 
wall?  Prints I am planning, are destined for the wall in the home 
office, this room is at roughly 43° North, and has a north facing 
basement window, so no strong sunlight will hit this wall.  As for HP 
some of the black inks are partly or mostly pigment based, so a BO print 
would be more fast then a colour print.

W



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GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND
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Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by scott_now_coming

That sounds good. Seems like that's MUCH better than the HP products.

I'm excited and can't wait for the carts to arrive.

Thanks again Paul,


Scott


-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> >Are the MIS inks waterproof (resistant, whatever) on a paper such 
as 
> >Epson Premium Lustre, as are the Epson UC inks?
> 
> >I can take an R800 print on EpPrmLstr, hold it under water, rub my 
> >fingers over the paper surface and the inks don't move.
> 
> I don't know if the MIS inks are as waterproof as the R800, but I 
just took
> a test strip of MIS UT ink on Premium Semigloss and put it under 
the faucet.
> There was no apparent running on the ink.  I rubbed the inked parts 
with a
> finger and no smearing appeared.  However, when I rubbed it with a 
paper
> towel to dry it there was a slight amount of smearing.  So, it may 
be that
> it's water proof, but not abrasion proof when wet.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High 
> Gloss.
> > > 
> > > Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially 
when 
> > > nput behind glass.
> > > 
> > 
> > This caught my eye, and I couldn't resist re-posting part of the 
> fade test I
> > did in March.
> > 
> > After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson Premium 
> Semigloss
> > printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt 
Print 
> Shield
> > and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following 
> starting and
> > ending spectrophotometer readings:
> > 
> > Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> > 
> > After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> > 
> > 
> > HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
> > 
> > After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
> > 
> > So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe 
good 
> enough
> > for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W 
> pigments.  How
> > all this translates into actual fading in display I don't know.  
> However, if
> > one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I 
think 
> the
> > predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE  "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED 
OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
OTHER
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by scott_now_coming

Hi W,

First of all, remember the longevity comes from the PLUS versions.

Second, there's still some of the old stock left on store shelves 
(locally here, just recently have they started selling the "new" 
packages. At CompUSA, they had the "old" packages under the counter 
and they gave me 15% off it I wanted them. I bought all they had.)

The Premium Plus are all 11.5 mils think.

The "just" Premium versions are less (I think 10 mil) thick.

I do headshots on the Premium Plus Matte (now "Satin")for a local 
theater. They look great.

I plan on switching to the Epson C86 and MIS carts for the headshots 
and I am looking into the HP 130 for doing color.


Scott



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, The Wogster 
<wogsterca@y...> wrote:
> scott_now_coming wrote:
> > 
> > W,
> > 
> > The Gloss HP is like a glossy RC print. Too much gloss for my 
taste.
> > 
> > The original HP Premium Plus Matte Photo paper is closer to a 
fiber-
> > based wet print. Now, HP is calling this "Satin", it was never a 
> > matte surface, but whatever one wants to call it, I prefer it.
> > 
> > Sometimes I like a High Gloss finish for a color photograph, but 
> > never a B&W image.
> > 
> 
> Interesting, just visited the HP website for here in Canada, they 
list 
> the following:
> 
> C6590A HP premium plus photo paper matte
> C6590AC HP premium plus photo paper matte
> C6579A  HP premium plus photo paper glossy
> C6579AC HP premium plus photo paper glossy
> 
> One thing they seem to be doing that is irritating though, the 
printer 
> (Deskjet 842C)handles paper up to Index 110lb / 200gsm, and now 
they 
> specify paper as so many mil thickness, so is 10 mil within the 
> capabilites of the printer or not????  According to HP it's listed 
for 
> this particular printers supplies, but according to a conversion 
chart I 
> found online, 10 mil is Index 150lb / 250gsm.
> 
> I wonder about other papers then, like the Kodak Ultima Picture 
paper 
> and Ilford Classic Gallerie papers (240-250gsm)  The Kodak is 
stated as 
> compatable but it's 270gsm.  There is a 180 degree turn inside the 
> printer, so I see why stiffness is an issue. I wonder though, in 
the 
> last 2-3 years have they made photopaper less stiff for a given 
> thickness.  You can bend a fairly thick paper to the same curve, 
> including traditional photo paper, so the question is why the 
relatively 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> low thickness limit?
> 
> W

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by scott_now_coming

The HP I'm using is the 7660.

I install ONLY the #59 cartridge (3 grey inks). The other "chamber" 
is only. 

In the HP drive, under color, I activte "Print in Greyscale".

The prints look really nice.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, The Wogster 
<wogsterca@y...> wrote:
> Paul Roark wrote:
> >>HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High 
Gloss.
> >>
> >>Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
> >>nput behind glass.
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > This caught my eye, and I couldn't resist re-posting part of the 
fade test I
> > did in March.
> > 
> > After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson Premium 
Semigloss
> > printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt 
Print Shield
> > and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following 
starting and
> > ending spectrophotometer readings:
> > 
> > Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> > 
> > After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> > 
> > 
> > HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
> > 
> > After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
> > 
> > So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe 
good enough
> > for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W 
pigments.  How
> > all this translates into actual fading in display I don't know.  
However, if
> > one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I 
think the
> > predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
> > 
> 
> Dumb question, How does 600 hours in the tester compare to time on 
the 
> wall?  Prints I am planning, are destined for the wall in the home 
> office, this room is at roughly 43° North, and has a north facing 
> basement window, so no strong sunlight will hit this wall.  As for 
HP 
> some of the black inks are partly or mostly pigment based, so a BO 
print 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> would be more fast then a colour print.
> 
> W

RE: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2004-12-19 by Paul Roark

The samples I tested were printed with an HP 7660 with the gray ink on the
"swellable" HP, Kodak, and Ilford papers that were available in March 2004.
All those papers did about the same in the tests, by the way.  The HP inks
definitely do make a nice very glossy print.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: scott_now_coming [mailto:scott_now_coming@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 10:59 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W



The HP I'm using is the 7660.

I install ONLY the #59 cartridge (3 grey inks). The other "chamber" 
is only. 

In the HP drive, under color, I activte "Print in Greyscale".

The prints look really nice.




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, The Wogster 
<wogsterca@y...> wrote:
> Paul Roark wrote:
> >>HP Premium Plus Photo Glossy, Satin (formerly Matte) and High 
Gloss.
> >>
> >>Those will give the longevity that we all desire, especially when 
> >>nput behind glass.
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > This caught my eye, and I couldn't resist re-posting part of the 
fade test I
> > did in March.
> > 
> > After 600 hours in my tester, the 50% patch of the Epson Premium 
Semigloss
> > printed with neutral MIS UT inks then sprayed with PremierArt 
Print Shield
> > and HP paper printed with their B&W inkset had the following 
starting and
> > ending spectrophotometer readings:
> > 
> > Prem. SG start: C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> > 
> > After 600 Hr:   C = .58, M = .57, Y = .58, Visual Density = .58
> > 
> > 
> > HP start:     C = .80, M = .79, Y = .76, Visual Density = .79
> > 
> > After 600 Hr: C = .78, M = .76, Y = .72, Visual Density = .77
> > 
> > So, while the HP B&W dyes may be very good for dyes, and maybe 
good enough
> > for most uses, I don't think they are equal to the good B&W 
pigments.  How
> > all this translates into actual fading in display I don't know.  
However, if
> > one wants the best B&W digital print resistance to fading, I 
think the
> > predominantly carbon pigment systems are still the way to go.
> > 
> 
> Dumb question, How does 600 hours in the tester compare to time on 
the 
> wall?  Prints I am planning, are destined for the wall in the home 
> office, this room is at roughly 43° North, and has a north facing 
> basement window, so no strong sunlight will hit this wall.  As for 
HP 
> some of the black inks are partly or mostly pigment based, so a BO 
print 
> would be more fast then a colour print.
> 
> W






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ColorEyes software & the X-Rite-94/Monaco XR

2005-05-22 by Sam McCandless

At

<http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/software/coloreyes-display.shtml>

Michael Reichmann's short review of the ColorEyes software says that:

>[snip]
>What helps set ColorEyes apart is the attention paid to calibrating 
>and linearizing the gray balance of your monitor. The software uses 
>an iterative process that double checks itself each step along the 
>way.
>
>Unique to this software, and patented, is what is called L* 
>technology for setting gamma. While you can set Gamma 1.8 or 2.2, or 
>whatever else you wish, L* creates separate tonal curves for the 
>shadow areas, mid-tones, and highlights. This is claimed to provide 
>smoother transitions, and therefore more accurate colour 
>reproduction.
>[snip]

which I thought might make ColorEyes more interesting to some of us. 
But if it's been mentioned on this list, I've missed it. In fact, I'd 
never heard of ColorEyes.


The ColorEyes promotion on the web site of Integrated Color (also new to me) at

<http://www.integrated-color.com/cedisplay/monitorprofiling.html>

says that:

>[snip] Instruments matter.
>We decided to pick the best instrument we could find, and the X-Rite 
>DTP-94 known in another incarnation as the Monaco XR has been 
>universally heralded as the best of the best for the price. [snip]

And I'm not sure what to make of this. Is the X-Rite colorimeter the 
best or just the best value? In particular, is the DTP-94 better with 
LCD's than the others? I'm especially interested in this because I 
need a new colorimeter in addition to calibration and profiling 
software and more for LCD's than for CRT's. On Mac's and for maps (in 
color) as well as photos if that matters.

Thanks.
--
Sam

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Which printer for B&W

2012-09-08 by lurique2003

Hello,

I've never printed, I want do the best as possible B&W, without cast greenish/pinky or magenta. I love the wide range of grey tones from black to white, my experience is in the darkroom. 

I'm considering 3 printers: Canon Pixma Pro 9000, this is interesting for the price and maybe for the use of dye inks. Also considering Canon Pixma Pro 9500 Mark II and Epson R3000. What I've saw that Epson is more popular and there is many software available as Quadtone RIP.

Printing cost and possible repairs assistance is also an important element. I don't think I'll print a lot of pictures, I will do for exhibitions and offer the prints to the market.

Thanks for your opinions

Best
lluis

Re: [Digital BW] Which printer for B&W

2012-09-09 by Paul Roark

lurique2003 <lluisrq2009@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> ... I want do the best as possible B&W, without cast greenish/pinky or
> magenta.
>
What is "best" depends on the goals.  In terms of lightfastness, 100%
carbon is the best.  Since it can also be the cheapest, it ought to be at
least considered.  The inkset I use for fine art is Eboni-6.  See
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf.   My general approach is
outlined at my general B&W information page at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ .

I do think an Epson printer supported by QTR <
http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html> adds a dimension of
flexibility and control that otherwise might be lost.  Epson printers also
have more third party ink options available.

Some Canon models are supported by a B&W rip made by Bowhaus --
http://www.bowhaus.com/index.php4 .  I have not used their current
software, so I can't comment on it.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Which printer for B&W

2012-09-09 by lurique2003

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
>
> lurique2003 <lluisrq2009@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > ... I want do the best as possible B&W, without cast greenish/pinky or
> > magenta.
> >
> What is "best" depends on the goals.  In terms of lightfastness, 100%
> carbon is the best.  Since it can also be the cheapest, it ought to be at
> least considered.  The inkset I use for fine art is Eboni-6.  See
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf.   My general approach is
> outlined at my general B&W information page at
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ .
> 
> I do think an Epson printer supported by QTR <
> http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html> adds a dimension of
> flexibility and control that otherwise might be lost.  Epson printers also
> have more third party ink options available.
> 
> Some Canon models are supported by a B&W rip made by Bowhaus --
> http://www.bowhaus.com/index.php4 .  I have not used their current
> software, so I can't comment on it.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Paul, 

Thank you very much for your response and all the information, I'm sorry for my ignorance,  carbon are the pigmented inks used in Epson R3000 or Pixma 9500? .

I have to learn a lot of things, what do you say about the Eboni inks is very interesting, also about the possibilities to use different inks in Epson, I think my decision will be for this one, as a most popular printer.

I realize we was already in contact throught the Leica Users Group, my Gallery : < http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/luisrq/
>, I've already saw your B&W pictures, they are excellent!

Thank you very much!

All the Best!
Lluis

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