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Crane Museo Silver Rag

Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by joshhackney

Since everyone has been eagerly awaiting the arrival of Museo Silver Rag, I though some 
might be interested to know that it is now available.  I just got off the phone with Jim Doyle at 
Shades of paper, and he's taking pre-orders on SR right now.  He says it should be in stock 
by Wednesday next week, and he'll ship it before PMA.  Won't be on the site until after the 
show.  I have no idea what is available other than 24" roles, since that is what I ordered.

Best.

Josh

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by Mark Savoia

Has anyone confirmed it will NOT work with Cone's inks (aka, comes  
off on rollers during printing)?
Mark

On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:57 PM, joshhackney wrote:

>
> Since everyone has been eagerly awaiting the arrival of Museo  
> Silver Rag, I though some
> might be interested to know that it is now available.  I just got  
> off the phone with Jim Doyle at
> Shades of paper, and he's taking pre-orders on SR right now.  He  
> says it should be in stock
> by Wednesday next week, and he'll ship it before PMA.  Won't be on  
> the site until after the
> show.  I have no idea what is available other than 24" roles, since  
> that is what I ordered.
>
> Best.
>
> Josh
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
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>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by lulalake_1999

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "joshhackney" 
<joshhackney@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Since everyone has been eagerly awaiting the arrival of Museo 
Silver Rag, I though some 
> might be interested to know that it is now available.  I just got 
off the phone with Jim Doyle at 
> Shades of paper, and he's taking pre-orders on SR right now.  He 
says it should be in stock 
> by Wednesday next week, and he'll ship it before PMA.  Won't be on 
the site until after the 
> show.  I have no idea what is available other than 24" roles, since 
that is what I ordered.
> 
> Best.
> 
> Josh

Hey Josh,

I think Jim is getting hammered with calls as I just got off the 
phone with him too, He sounds happily frazzeled, he, he. Very nice 
fellow, him. I ordered a box of 13x19. It's available in various 
sizes. I also downloaded the profiled from Cranes.

Cheers

Jules

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by john forney

Mark,  I printed it w/ piezotone.  The print came out fine...no roller marrks.  But, as I measured my density chart, the print smudged so badly I could not get a good curve.  I will be reprinting a chart, then spraying it w clearshield before I measure.



Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote: Has anyone confirmed it will NOT work with Cone's inks (aka, comes  
off on rollers during printing)?
Mark

On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:57 PM, joshhackney wrote:

>
> Since everyone has been eagerly awaiting the arrival of Museo  
> Silver Rag, I though some
> might be interested to know that it is now available.  I just got  
> off the phone with Jim Doyle at
> Shades of paper, and he's taking pre-orders on SR right now.  He  
> says it should be in stock
> by Wednesday next week, and he'll ship it before PMA.  Won't be on  
> the site until after the
> show.  I have no idea what is available other than 24" roles, since  
> that is what I ordered.
>
> Best.
>
> Josh
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography Digital  
> photography college
> Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital  
> photography course
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
>
>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
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>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
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Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by john dean

Really? The bronzing and the gloss diff. with the K6 was the worst
I've ever seen, but it didn't smudge at all.

john



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, john forney
<jforney_54@...> wrote:
>
> Mark,  I printed it w/ piezotone.  The print came out fine...no
roller marrks.  But, as I measured my density chart, the print smudged
so badly I could not get a good curve.  I will be reprinting a chart,
then spraying it w clearshield before I measure.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote: Has anyone confirmed it will NOT work
with Cone's inks (aka, comes  
> off on rollers during printing)?
> Mark
> 
> On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:57 PM, joshhackney wrote:
> 
> >
> > Since everyone has been eagerly awaiting the arrival of Museo  
> > Silver Rag, I though some
> > might be interested to know that it is now available.  I just got  
> > off the phone with Jim Doyle at
> > Shades of paper, and he's taking pre-orders on SR right now.  He  
> > says it should be in stock
> > by Wednesday next week, and he'll ship it before PMA.  Won't be on  
> > the site until after the
> > show.  I have no idea what is available other than 24" roles, since  
> > that is what I ordered.
> >
> > Best.
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> > group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and
Guidelines�  
> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> > �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
GROUP SHALL  
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS�
OF DIGITAL  
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography Digital  
> > photography college
> > Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital  
> > photography course
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >  Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
> >
> >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in
the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
�OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED
TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF
DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT
OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv)
ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
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> 
>  
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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RE: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by Steve Bye

Beware of an inconsistency in the directions for using the profile.

The pdf file with directions for using the 4800 profile state that you
should set up proofing for Perceptual with no black point compensation. It
then says to set Source Space to Proof and "be sure that the print space
options match your proof settings, the intent should be Relative." So, which
is it, relative or perceptual?

I hope there is a profile for the 2400 soon, with directions that are
consistent.

Steve
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
lulalake_1999
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:07 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

...

Hey Josh,

I think Jim is getting hammered with calls as I just got off the 
phone with him too, He sounds happily frazzeled, he, he. Very nice 
fellow, him. I ordered a box of 13x19. It's available in various 
sizes. I also downloaded the profiled from Cranes.

Cheers

Jules

Crane Museo Silver Rag - paper sizes

2006-02-17 by Greg

I assume most of you have an email from Shades of Paper with the 
sizes, but for those that haven't purchased from Jim, here's the 
sizes:

09904 300 8.5 x 11 sheets, 25 sheets/box 
09905 300 13 x 19 sheets, 25 sheets/box 
09906 300 17 x 22 sheets, 25 sheets/box 
09907 300 24 x 36 sheets, 25 sheets/box 
09908 300 35 x 47 sheets, 25 sheets/box 

09909 300 17" x 50 ft roll 
09910 300 24" x 50 ft roll 
09911 300 44" x 50 ft roll 
09912 300 50" x 50 ft roll

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by john forney

Bronzing was very present.  But it was the smudging that prevented me from getting a good reading.  The more I tried, the more the ink got a chalky wax buildup that was lighter in color than the original density patch.

john dean <deanwork2003@...> wrote:     Really? The bronzing and the gloss diff. with the K6 was the worst
 I've ever seen, but it didn't smudge at all.
 
 john
 
 
 
 --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, john forney
 <jforney_54@...> wrote:
 >
 > Mark,  I printed it w/ piezotone.  The print came out fine...no
 roller marrks.  But, as I measured my density chart, the print smudged
 so badly I could not get a good curve.  I will be reprinting a chart,
 then spraying it w clearshield before I measure.
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote: Has anyone confirmed it will NOT work
 with Cone's inks (aka, comes  
 > off on rollers during printing)?
 > Mark
 > 
 > On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:57 PM, joshhackney wrote:
 > 
 > >
 > > Since everyone has been eagerly awaiting the arrival of Museo  
 > > Silver Rag, I though some
 > > might be interested to know that it is now available.  I just got  
 > > off the phone with Jim Doyle at
 > > Shades of paper, and he's taking pre-orders on SR right now.  He  
 > > says it should be in stock
 > > by Wednesday next week, and he'll ship it before PMA.  Won't be on  
 > > the site until after the
 > > show.  I have no idea what is available other than 24" roles, since  
 > > that is what I ordered.
 > >
 > > Best.
 > >
 > > Josh
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
 > > resources as they are often being updated.
 > >
 > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
 > >
 > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
 > > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
 > > visiting this same page.
 > >
 > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
 > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
 > > to keep them short.
 > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
 > > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
 > > from the membership without notice.
 > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
 > > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
 > > removed from the membership.
 > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
 > > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
 > > group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and
 Guidelines�  
 > > in the Files section:
 > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
 > >
 > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
 > > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
 > > �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
 GROUP SHALL  
 > > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
 > > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
 > > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
 > > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS�
 OF DIGITAL  
 > > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
 > > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
 > > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
 > > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
 > > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
 > > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
 > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > SPONSORED LINKS
 > > Digital wedding photography Learn digital photography Digital  
 > > photography college
 > > Digital photography Digital photography web site Digital  
 > > photography course
 > >
 > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
 > >
 > >  Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
 > >
 > >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 > >  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
 > >
 > >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
 > >
 > >
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
 resources as they are often being updated.
 > 
 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
 > 
 > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish
 to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
 this same page.
 > 
 > Please follow these basic guidelines:
 > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
 to keep them short.
 > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
 flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from
 the membership without notice.
 > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
 B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
 removed from the membership.
 > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
 guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
 Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in
 the Files section:
 > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
 > 
 > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
 PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
 �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
 SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
 SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED
 TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
 INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF
 DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY
 OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
 THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
 ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT
 OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv)
 ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 >  
 > Yahoo! Groups Links
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >  
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 >             
 > ---------------------------------
 > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
 > 
 > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 >
 
 
 
 
      

  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
 
 If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
 
 Please follow these basic guidelines:
 - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
 - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
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Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by john dean

When that guy who was the first beta tester of this SR published his
results and I asked him if Crane had tested this paper with PiezoTone.
He asked them and got back to me that they said they had, on a new
Roland with ErgoSoft Da Vinci rip. He said they told him it "passed
the muster". I don't like terminology like that, that isn't helpful.
What I imagine they did was drasticly reduce the ink limits in the low
end. I tried this with QTR and K6 and it didn't begin to pass the
muster. I think it requires a photo black, period. We'll see.

john




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, john forney
<jforney_54@...> wrote:
>
> Bronzing was very present.  But it was the smudging that prevented
me from getting a good reading.  The more I tried, the more the ink
got a chalky wax buildup that was lighter in color than the original
density patch.
> 
> john dean <deanwork2003@...> wrote:     Really? The bronzing and the
gloss diff. with the K6 was the worst
>  I've ever seen, but it didn't smudge at all.
>  
>  john
>  
>  
>  
>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, john forney
>  <jforney_54@> wrote:
>  >
>  > Mark,  I printed it w/ piezotone.  The print came out fine...no
>  roller marrks.  But, as I measured my density chart, the print smudged
>  so badly I could not get a good curve.  I will be reprinting a chart,
>  then spraying it w clearshield before I measure.
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > Mark Savoia <mark@> wrote: Has anyone confirmed it will NOT work
>  with Cone's inks (aka, comes  
>  > off on rollers during printing)?
>  > Mark
>  > 
>  > On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:57 PM, joshhackney wrote:
>  > 
>  > >
>  > > Since everyone has been eagerly awaiting the arrival of Museo  
>  > > Silver Rag, I though some
>  > > might be interested to know that it is now available.  I just got  
>  > > off the phone with Jim Doyle at
>  > > Shades of paper, and he's taking pre-orders on SR right now.  He  
>  > > says it should be in stock
>  > > by Wednesday next week, and he'll ship it before PMA.  Won't be
on  
>  > > the site until after the
>  > > show.  I have no idea what is available other than 24" roles,
since  
>  > > that is what I ordered.
>  > >
>  > > Best.
>  > >
>  > > Josh
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>  > > resources as they are often being updated.
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Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by lulalake_1999

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john dean" 
<deanwork2003@...> wrote:
>
> When that guy who was the first beta tester of this SR published his
> results and I asked him if Crane had tested this paper with PiezoTone.
> He asked them and got back to me that they said they had, on a new
> Roland with ErgoSoft Da Vinci rip. He said they told him it "passed
> the muster". I don't like terminology like that, that isn't helpful.
> What I imagine they did was drasticly reduce the ink limits in the low
> end. I tried this with QTR and K6 and it didn't begin to pass the
> muster. I think it requires a photo black, period. We'll see.
> 
> john

Yes it must use a PK. It does not wrk with a matte black.

Jules

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2006-02-17 by scott_now_coming

My understanding is that SR will broze with anything less than Epson 
UC K3 inks.

The Crane SR was designed around Epson Ultrachrome K3.

Scott

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, john forney 
<jforney_54@...> wrote:
>
> Bronzing was very present.  But it was the smudging that prevented 
me from getting a good reading.  The more I tried, the more the ink 
got a chalky wax buildup that was lighter in color than the original 
density patch.
> 
> john dean <deanwork2003@...> wrote:     Really? The bronzing and 
the gloss diff. with the K6 was the worst
>  I've ever seen, but it didn't smudge at all.
>  
>  john
>  
>  
>  
>  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, john forney
>  <jforney_54@> wrote:
>  >
>  > Mark,  I printed it w/ piezotone.  The print came out fine...no
>  roller marrks.  But, as I measured my density chart, the print 
smudged
>  so badly I could not get a good curve.  I will be reprinting a 
chart,
>  then spraying it w clearshield before I measure.
>  > 
>  > 
>  > 
>  > Mark Savoia <mark@> wrote: Has anyone confirmed it will NOT work
>  with Cone's inks (aka, comes  
>  > off on rollers during printing)?
>  > Mark
>  > 
>  > On Feb 17, 2006, at 3:57 PM, joshhackney wrote:
>  > 
>  > >
>  > > Since everyone has been eagerly awaiting the arrival of Museo  
>  > > Silver Rag, I though some
>  > > might be interested to know that it is now available.  I just 
got  
>  > > off the phone with Jim Doyle at
>  > > Shades of paper, and he's taking pre-orders on SR right now.  
He  
>  > > says it should be in stock
>  > > by Wednesday next week, and he'll ship it before PMA.  Won't 
be on  
>  > > the site until after the
>  > > show.  I have no idea what is available other than 24" roles, 
since  
>  > > that is what I ordered.
>  > >
>  > > Best.
>  > >
>  > > Josh
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>  > > resources as they are often being updated.
>  > >
>  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>  > >
>  > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
you  
>  > > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences 
by  
>  > > visiting this same page.
>  > >
>  > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
>  > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages  
>  > > to keep them short.
>  > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or  
>  > > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
removed  
>  > > from the membership without notice.
>  > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital  
>  > > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may 
be  
>  > > removed from the membership.
>  > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
rules  
>  > > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of 
the  
>  > > group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and
>  Guidelines�  
>  > > in the Files section:
>  > > 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
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Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by garyphoto6

Hello,
I have not heard much lately about Crane Museo Silver Rag. Is anyone 
using it and what are your thoughts?
Thanks,
Gary W.

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Edward Wiseman

Gary..

    I'm getting very nice results using it in conjunction with an Epson 1280, MIS UT-2 Inks / Spongeless carts and Harrington's QTR....Better than anything "I" was ever able to produce in a chemical darkroom..I only use this paper however, when I feel I have an extraordinary image @ over $1.50/8.5x11 sheet..Otherwise I use Epson Premium Lustre/ Semigloss / Enhanced Matt  or Kirkland (Costco)....In any case ALL images are sprayed with Premier Artshield..

Eddie Wiseman
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: garyphoto6 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:33 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag


  Hello,
  I have not heard much lately about Crane Museo Silver Rag. Is anyone 
  using it and what are your thoughts?
  Thanks,
  Gary W.



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Steve Gledhill

Can only speak for myself - obviously.

It's a superb paper and I use it extensively.  Particularly for large 
prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
Why?  Deep blacks.  Warmish creamyish paper colour which I particularly 
like for my work.  The surface is very robust and resistant to damage.  
It is slightly stippled which some may not like - for me it's no problem 
- I like it.  Gloss differential and bronzing are present but so minimal 
as to be no issue at all.  I use rolls and sheets.  Some find the rolls 
curl too much - they do curl but it's easy to uncurl buy wrapping the 
print around a length of drain pipe for a minute or two.

Unlike some B&W printers - I don't experiment much once I have found a 
paper I like.  Once in a while I'll try something new to see how far the 
manufacturers have moved on - but for me I expend almost all of my 
available photo-energy and time on the creation of my images.  Capturing 
them on 5x4 film, processing them carefully, scanning them and then 
working on them in Photoshop.  Maybe I'm just lucky but my printing 
setup just works like a dream - reliably and consistently.  (By the way, 
this is thanks to much that I've learned through this and the QTR 
forum).  And Silver Rag is part of it.  It works for me.

I do use other papers - but not many.  Ilford Smooth Pearl is great if 
you don't need maximum permanence (and it's cheap - at least it is here 
in the UK - \ufffd25/100 A4 sheet box) - for example, every year I print a 
batch of my own calendars using it.  It's ideal for that as permanence 
is not a key factor for a calendar!

You may have guessed from what I say that I'm using PK all of the time.  
I've used and do like MK work on some matte papers, but for now I'm 
enjoying the richness and depth that PK ink gives on Silver Rag .

Ultimately, what works for me and what I like may well be different to 
what works for you or what you like.  But, hey - what choice we now have!

Steve Gledhill
http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/

garyphoto6 wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I have not heard much lately about Crane Museo Silver Rag. Is anyone
> using it and what are your thoughts?
> Thanks,
> Gary W.
>
>
>
>  

		
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Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Carlos Valiente

On 1/18/07, Steve Gledhill <stephengledhill@...> wrote:
>  [..] here in the UK [..]

Hi! Where do you order Silver Rag from, Steve? I could only find these
guys (http://tinyurl.com/27yntz), but their price is not something to
write back home about.

Cheers,

Carlos Valiente
Reading, UK

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Howard Shaw

Hi Steve

I'd like to use this paper more but the prices in the UK are so 
expensive - the price for sheets from Online paper is nearly twice that 
of Photo Rag which isn't exactly cheap itself.

thanks for any pointers
Howard

Steve Gledhill wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> 
> It's a superb paper and I use it extensively.  Particularly for large 
> prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> Why?  Deep blacks.  Warmish creamyish paper colour which I particularly 
> like for my work.  The surface is very robust and resistant to damage.  
> It is slightly stippled which some may not like - for me it's no problem 
> - I like it.  Gloss differential and bronzing are present but so minimal 
> as to be no issue at all.  I use rolls and sheets.  Some find the rolls 
> curl too much - they do curl but it's easy to uncurl buy wrapping the 
> print around a length of drain pipe for a minute or two.
> 
> Unlike some B&W printers - I don't experiment much once I have found a 
> paper I like.  Once in a while I'll try something new to see how far the 
> manufacturers have moved on - but for me I expend almost all of my 
> available photo-energy and time on the creation of my images.  Capturing 
> them on 5x4 film, processing them carefully, scanning them and then 
> working on them in Photoshop.  Maybe I'm just lucky but my printing 
> setup just works like a dream - reliably and consistently.  (By the way, 
> this is thanks to much that I've learned through this and the QTR 
> forum).  And Silver Rag is part of it.  It works for me.
> 
> I do use other papers - but not many.  Ilford Smooth Pearl is great if 
> you don't need maximum permanence (and it's cheap - at least it is here 
> in the UK - \ufffd25/100 A4 sheet box) - for example, every year I print a 
> batch of my own calendars using it.  It's ideal for that as permanence 
> is not a key factor for a calendar!
> 
> You may have guessed from what I say that I'm using PK all of the time.  
> I've used and do like MK work on some matte papers, but for now I'm 
> enjoying the richness and depth that PK ink gives on Silver Rag .
> 
> Ultimately, what works for me and what I like may well be different to 
> what works for you or what you like.  But, hey - what choice we now have!
> 
> Steve Gledhill
> http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Steve Gledhill

It's not a cheap paper - true but buy it from Shades of Paper in NJ - 
it's much cheaper including shipping across the pond. Steve Kale always 
bangs on ;-) about buying it where it's cheapest and I agree!
Steve
http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/

Howard Shaw wrote:
>
> Hi Steve
>
> I'd like to use this paper more but the prices in the UK are so
> expensive - the price for sheets from Online paper is nearly twice that
> of Photo Rag which isn't exactly cheap itself.
>
> thanks for any pointers
> Howard
>
> Steve Gledhill wrote:
> > Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> >
> > It's a superb paper and I use it extensively. Particularly for large
> > prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> > Why? Deep blacks. Warmish creamyish paper colour which I particularly
> > like for my work. The surface is very robust and resistant to damage.
> > It is slightly stippled which some may not like - for me it's no 
> problem
> > - I like it. Gloss differential and bronzing are present but so minimal
> > as to be no issue at all. I use rolls and sheets. Some find the rolls
> > curl too much - they do curl but it's easy to uncurl buy wrapping the
> > print around a length of drain pipe for a minute or two.
> >
> > Unlike some B&W printers - I don't experiment much once I have found a
> > paper I like. Once in a while I'll try something new to see how far the
> > manufacturers have moved on - but for me I expend almost all of my
> > available photo-energy and time on the creation of my images. Capturing
> > them on 5x4 film, processing them carefully, scanning them and then
> > working on them in Photoshop. Maybe I'm just lucky but my printing
> > setup just works like a dream - reliably and consistently. (By the way,
> > this is thanks to much that I've learned through this and the QTR
> > forum). And Silver Rag is part of it. It works for me.
> >
> > I do use other papers - but not many. Ilford Smooth Pearl is great if
> > you don't need maximum permanence (and it's cheap - at least it is here
> > in the UK - \ufffd25/100 A4 sheet box) - for example, every year I print a
> > batch of my own calendars using it. It's ideal for that as permanence
> > is not a key factor for a calendar!
> >
> > You may have guessed from what I say that I'm using PK all of the time.
> > I've used and do like MK work on some matte papers, but for now I'm
> > enjoying the richness and depth that PK ink gives on Silver Rag .
> >
> > Ultimately, what works for me and what I like may well be different to
> > what works for you or what you like. But, hey - what choice we now have!
> >
> > Steve Gledhill
> > http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/ <http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/>
>
>  

		
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Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Steve Bell

I've heard a lot of good things about this paper, but it does seem pricey. I
use a paper that I believe is similar, Permajet's fibre based unglazed
gloss, and it performs very well in my R2400 with K3 inks.

Has anyone compared this paper to Crane's, is there much difference? If
there was a noticeable improvement the cost would be acceptable for
exhibitions.

Steve Bell
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Steve
> 
> I'd like to use this paper more but the prices in the UK are so
> expensive - the price for sheets from Online paper is nearly twice that
> of Photo Rag which isn't exactly cheap itself.
> 
> thanks for any pointers
> Howard
> 
> Steve Gledhill wrote:
>> Can only speak for myself - obviously.
>> 
>> It's a superb paper and I use it extensively.  Particularly for large
>> prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
>> Why?  Deep blacks.  Warmish creamyish paper colour which I particularly
>> like for my work.  The surface is very robust and resistant to damage.
>> It is slightly stippled which some may not like - for me it's no problem
>> - I like it.  Gloss differential and bronzing are present but so minimal
>> as to be no issue at all.  I use rolls and sheets.  Some find the rolls
>> curl too much - they do curl but it's easy to uncurl buy wrapping the
>> print around a length of drain pipe for a minute or two.
>> 
>> Unlike some B&W printers - I don't experiment much once I have found a
>> paper I like.  Once in a while I'll try something new to see how far the
>> manufacturers have moved on - but for me I expend almost all of my
>> available photo-energy and time on the creation of my images.  Capturing
>> them on 5x4 film, processing them carefully, scanning them and then
>> working on them in Photoshop.  Maybe I'm just lucky but my printing
>> setup just works like a dream - reliably and consistently.  (By the way,
>> this is thanks to much that I've learned through this and the QTR
>> forum).  And Silver Rag is part of it.  It works for me.
>> 
>> I do use other papers - but not many.  Ilford Smooth Pearl is great if
>> you don't need maximum permanence (and it's cheap - at least it is here
>> in the UK - £25/100 A4 sheet box) - for example, every year I print a
>> batch of my own calendars using it.  It's ideal for that as permanence
>> is not a key factor for a calendar!
>> 
>> You may have guessed from what I say that I'm using PK all of the time.
>> I've used and do like MK work on some matte papers, but for now I'm
>> enjoying the richness and depth that PK ink gives on Silver Rag .
>> 
>> Ultimately, what works for me and what I like may well be different to
>> what works for you or what you like.  But, hey - what choice we now have!
>> 
>> Steve Gledhill
>> http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by edrudolpho

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
<stephengledhill@...> wrote:
>
> Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> 
> It's a superb paper and I use it extensively.  Particularly for large 
> prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> Why?  Deep blacks.  Warmish creamyish paper colour which I particularly 
> like for my work.

This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400).  Until
one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
print.  The print looked simply awful under their lighting.  I lost
faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS EZWarm to
replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings.  I haven't been
back to the gallery yet.  

Ed

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by mxgo95747

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho" <erudolph@...> 
wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> >
> > Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> > 
> > It's a superb paper and I use it extensively.  Particularly for large 
> > prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> > Why?  Deep blacks.  Warmish creamyish paper colour which I particularly 
> > like for my work.
> 
> This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400).  Until
> one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
> print.  The print looked simply awful under their lighting.  I lost
> faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS EZWarm to
> replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings.  I haven't been
> back to the gallery yet.  
> 
 I use the Bowhaus RIP profile on my epson 2400 that uses only PK, LK, and LLK inks.  The 
prints have a warm green tint to them , but they show well under the lights.  I took some 
prints to a Print NIght (a Sarcramento CA Photo group; http://www.viewpointgallery.org), 
where they have gallery lights and I was quite surprised how well the prints showed under 
the lights.

Martin

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Steve Gledhill

In what way was it simply awful?
Steve Gledhill
http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/

edrudolpho wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve Gledhill
> <stephengledhill@...> wrote:
> >
> > Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> >
> > It's a superb paper and I use it extensively. Particularly for large
> > prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> > Why? Deep blacks. Warmish creamyish paper colour which I particularly
> > like for my work.
>
> This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400). Until
> one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
> print. The print looked simply awful under their lighting. I lost
> faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS EZWarm to
> replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings. I haven't been
> back to the gallery yet.
>
> Ed
>

	
	
		
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Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by edrudolpho

Metamerism.  The print looked greenish-blue.  Previously, under
tungsten, daylight, even fluorescent, I had seen this print as pretty
neutral.  The gallery owner and her assistant looked at it.  The
assistant told me not to worry; that this was a common problem for
inkjet prints.  I was pretty embarrassed.

Ed


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
<stephengledhill@...> wrote:
>
> In what way was it simply awful?
> Steve Gledhill
> http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/
> 
> edrudolpho wrote:
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve
Gledhill
> > <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> > >
> > > It's a superb paper and I use it extensively. Particularly for large
> > > prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> > > Why? Deep blacks. Warmish creamyish paper colour which I
particularly
> > > like for my work.
> >
> > This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400). Until
> > one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
> > print. The print looked simply awful under their lighting. I lost
> > faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS EZWarm to
> > replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings. I haven't been
> > back to the gallery yet.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> 
> 	
> 	
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________ 
> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity
and ease of use." - PC Magazine 
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>

Re: [Digital BW] Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by edrudolpho

Hi Martin.... along with EZWarm in the Yellow spot, I've tried the
Bowhaus RIP for use with Innova F-Type glossy.  For Silver Rag, I use
the ABW method.  I prefer the simplicity of the ABW method but I
couldn't get the print quite where I wanted it on Innova using ABW.  I
based my ABW profile on Charles James' neutral IJC profile for Silver
Rag on a 2400.  (By the way, IJC for the 2400 only uses 7 inks and
ignores the yellow slot.)  The resulting profile is posted on the
Bowhaus ftp site.

Ed  

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mxgo95747"
<mxgo95747@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho"
<erudolph@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
> > <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> > > 
> > > It's a superb paper and I use it extensively.  Particularly for
large 
> > > prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> > > Why?  Deep blacks.  Warmish creamyish paper colour which I
particularly 
> > > like for my work.
> > 
> > This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400).  Until
> > one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
> > print.  The print looked simply awful under their lighting.  I lost
> > faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS EZWarm to
> > replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings.  I haven't been
> > back to the gallery yet.  
> > 
>  I use the Bowhaus RIP profile on my epson 2400 that uses only PK,
LK, and LLK inks.  The 
> prints have a warm green tint to them , but they show well under the
lights.  I took some 
> prints to a Print NIght (a Sarcramento CA Photo group;
http://www.viewpointgallery.org), 
> where they have gallery lights and I was quite surprised how well
the prints showed under 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> the lights.
> 
> Martin
>

Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Tyler Boley

I confess I have not really explored how much metmerism was involved
in the prints I've made here.
What I found was that the hue of the Epson K and light Ks on Silver
Rag is very unattractive. So much more use of the color inks is
necessary than one might think to make it work.
The use I liked best was to go with the direction indicated by the
base and move the whole tone towards warm, like Portriga or Forte.
Seemed to work well. Any workflow leaving a good amount of color inks
avalable to utilize would probably be most atractive. However here I'm
running the lightest K all the way up the scale, which the RGB driver
won't allow.
I'm talking UCK3s, not tried anything else on it.
The various RIP options will let you do this of course, and possibly
the ABW driver, I'm just not sure the ABW driver leaves enough color
ink available to tone attractively, but I've not tried it. Also, it
would be of use to change the tone throughout the scale, something
they should put in that driver.
I'm not sure if neutral is a good target use for this paper. I also
found it all had to be done by eye, to taste, a techie aproach didn't
take things very far.
So far, under a variety of B&W uses, the Epson K3 blacks have been
mostly a problem to solve, they are unattractive.
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho"
<erudolph@...> wrote:
>
> Metamerism.  The print looked greenish-blue.  Previously, under
> tungsten, daylight, even fluorescent, I had seen this print as pretty
> neutral.  The gallery owner and her assistant looked at it.  The
> assistant told me not to worry; that this was a common problem for
> inkjet prints.  I was pretty embarrassed.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> >
> > In what way was it simply awful?
> > Steve Gledhill
> > http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/
> > 
> > edrudolpho wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> > > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve
> Gledhill
> > > <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> > > >
> > > > It's a superb paper and I use it extensively. Particularly for
large
> > > > prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> > > > Why? Deep blacks. Warmish creamyish paper colour which I
> particularly
> > > > like for my work.
> > >
> > > This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400). Until
> > > one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag
ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
> > > print. The print looked simply awful under their lighting. I lost
> > > faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS EZWarm to
> > > replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings. I haven't
been
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > > back to the gallery yet.
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > 
> > 	
> > 	
> > 		
> > ___________________________________________________________ 
> > All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity
> and ease of use." - PC Magazine 
> > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Mark Savoia

Silly question, when one of the colors starts to fade (not sure how  
soon that happens), won't a color cast jump right out in a black and  
white print made with color inks? It might not happen now, but what  
if in a few years or a poorly stored or exhibited photo. Should we  
worry?
Mark
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 18, 2007, at 2:11 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> I confess I have not really explored how much metmerism was involved
> in the prints I've made here.
> What I found was that the hue of the Epson K and light Ks on Silver
> Rag is very unattractive. So much more use of the color inks is
> necessary than one might think to make it work.
> The use I liked best was to go with the direction indicated by the
> base and move the whole tone towards warm, like Portriga or Forte.
> Seemed to work well. Any workflow leaving a good amount of color inks
> avalable to utilize would probably be most atractive. However here I'm
> running the lightest K all the way up the scale, which the RGB driver
> won't allow.
> I'm talking UCK3s, not tried anything else on it.
> The various RIP options will let you do this of course, and possibly
> the ABW driver, I'm just not sure the ABW driver leaves enough color
> ink available to tone attractively, but I've not tried it. Also, it
> would be of use to change the tone throughout the scale, something
> they should put in that driver.
> I'm not sure if neutral is a good target use for this paper. I also
> found it all had to be done by eye, to taste, a techie aproach didn't
> take things very far.
> So far, under a variety of B&W uses, the Epson K3 blacks have been
> mostly a problem to solve, they are unattractive.
> Tyler
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho"
> <erudolph@...> wrote:
>>
>> Metamerism.  The print looked greenish-blue.  Previously, under
>> tungsten, daylight, even fluorescent, I had seen this print as pretty
>> neutral.  The gallery owner and her assistant looked at it.  The
>> assistant told me not to worry; that this was a common problem for
>> inkjet prints.  I was pretty embarrassed.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
>> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
>>>
>>> In what way was it simply awful?
>>> Steve Gledhill
>>> http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/
>>>
>>> edrudolpho wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve
>> Gledhill
>>>> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Can only speak for myself - obviously.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a superb paper and I use it extensively. Particularly for
> large
>>>>> prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
>>>>> Why? Deep blacks. Warmish creamyish paper colour which I
>> particularly
>>>>> like for my work.
>>>>
>>>> This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400). Until
>>>> one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag
> ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
>>>> print. The print looked simply awful under their lighting. I lost
>>>> faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS EZWarm to
>>>> replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings. I haven't
> been
>>>> back to the gallery yet.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>
>>> 	
>>> 	
>>> 		
>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity
>> and ease of use." - PC Magazine
>>> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
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>
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[Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Tyler Boley

Mark, of course this is a major concern. It's one obvious argument in
support of mono inksets. However, so far the stories of differential
fade and resulting mono prints changing hue all over the place have
not trickled in.
So, as much as I think one should use the right tool for the job and
as much as I use and love mono inksets, I've not used this potential
problem as an argument in their favor until there's more data to
support it. There is some longevity evidence to support the mono inks
I use over the ultrachromes. But it's hard to say how and when these
mono UC prints may change.
But certainly not a silly question, it's just the only viable inkset
to use on this paper available to me right now. I've only played with
it, and printed on it for one person who likes it. The Portriga clone
we worked out on it is attractive.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Silly question, when one of the colors starts to fade (not sure how  
> soon that happens), won't a color cast jump right out in a black and  
> white print made with color inks? It might not happen now, but what  
> if in a few years or a poorly stored or exhibited photo. Should we  
> worry?
> Mark
> 
> On Jan 18, 2007, at 2:11 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
> 
> > I confess I have not really explored how much metmerism was involved
> > in the prints I've made here.
> > What I found was that the hue of the Epson K and light Ks on Silver
> > Rag is very unattractive. So much more use of the color inks is
> > necessary than one might think to make it work.
> > The use I liked best was to go with the direction indicated by the
> > base and move the whole tone towards warm, like Portriga or Forte.
> > Seemed to work well. Any workflow leaving a good amount of color inks
> > avalable to utilize would probably be most atractive. However here I'm
> > running the lightest K all the way up the scale, which the RGB driver
> > won't allow.
> > I'm talking UCK3s, not tried anything else on it.
> > The various RIP options will let you do this of course, and possibly
> > the ABW driver, I'm just not sure the ABW driver leaves enough color
> > ink available to tone attractively, but I've not tried it. Also, it
> > would be of use to change the tone throughout the scale, something
> > they should put in that driver.
> > I'm not sure if neutral is a good target use for this paper. I also
> > found it all had to be done by eye, to taste, a techie aproach didn't
> > take things very far.
> > So far, under a variety of B&W uses, the Epson K3 blacks have been
> > mostly a problem to solve, they are unattractive.
> > Tyler
> >
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho"
> > <erudolph@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Metamerism.  The print looked greenish-blue.  Previously, under
> >> tungsten, daylight, even fluorescent, I had seen this print as pretty
> >> neutral.  The gallery owner and her assistant looked at it.  The
> >> assistant told me not to worry; that this was a common problem for
> >> inkjet prints.  I was pretty embarrassed.
> >>
> >> Ed
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
> >> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> In what way was it simply awful?
> >>> Steve Gledhill
> >>> http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/
> >>>
> >>> edrudolpho wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve
> >> Gledhill
> >>>> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's a superb paper and I use it extensively. Particularly for
> > large
> >>>>> prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> >>>>> Why? Deep blacks. Warmish creamyish paper colour which I
> >> particularly
> >>>>> like for my work.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400). Until
> >>>> one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag
> > ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
> >>>> print. The print looked simply awful under their lighting. I lost
> >>>> faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS EZWarm to
> >>>> replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings. I haven't
> > been
> >>>> back to the gallery yet.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ed
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> 	
> >>> 	
> >>> 		
> >>> ___________________________________________________________
> >>> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity
> >> and ease of use." - PC Magazine
> >>> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> > group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> > �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/18/07 2:17:51 PM, tyler@... writes:


> So far, under a variety of B&W uses, the Epson K3 blacks have been
> mostly a problem to solve, they are unattractive.
> 

This is all automatic when using the K3s (or other such inksets) with 
PrintFIX PRO2; as long as neutral can be reached, the default profile will print as 
neutral. You can then tint as desired with the same tinting as any other 
inkset, since it all starts from neutral, not from the inkset and driver's idea of 
gray.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Bruce Watson

Mark Savoia wrote:
> Silly question, when one of the colors starts to fade (not sure how  
> soon that happens), won't a color cast jump right out in a black and  
> white print made with color inks? It might not happen now, but what  
> if in a few years or a poorly stored or exhibited photo. Should we  
> worry?
> Mark
I don't know if we should worry. All I know is that I *do* worry. This 
is one of the reasons why I print B&W with PiezoTones.
--
Bruce Watson

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Mark Savoia

What will your policy be five years from now if something shifts? How  
long do all of us printers guarantee these things realistically to  
our clients? What wording do we say....."this or that may happen at  
some time". I am perplexed on what to say because we all know certain  
clients want us to predict the future :)
Mark
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 18, 2007, at 2:34 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> Mark, of course this is a major concern. It's one obvious argument in
> support of mono inksets. However, so far the stories of differential
> fade and resulting mono prints changing hue all over the place have
> not trickled in.
> So, as much as I think one should use the right tool for the job and
> as much as I use and love mono inksets, I've not used this potential
> problem as an argument in their favor until there's more data to
> support it. There is some longevity evidence to support the mono inks
> I use over the ultrachromes. But it's hard to say how and when these
> mono UC prints may change.
> But certainly not a silly question, it's just the only viable inkset
> to use on this paper available to me right now. I've only played with
> it, and printed on it for one person who likes it. The Portriga clone
> we worked out on it is attractive.
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> Silly question, when one of the colors starts to fade (not sure how
>> soon that happens), won't a color cast jump right out in a black and
>> white print made with color inks? It might not happen now, but what
>> if in a few years or a poorly stored or exhibited photo. Should we
>> worry?
>> Mark
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2007, at 2:11 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>>
>>> I confess I have not really explored how much metmerism was involved
>>> in the prints I've made here.
>>> What I found was that the hue of the Epson K and light Ks on Silver
>>> Rag is very unattractive. So much more use of the color inks is
>>> necessary than one might think to make it work.
>>> The use I liked best was to go with the direction indicated by the
>>> base and move the whole tone towards warm, like Portriga or Forte.
>>> Seemed to work well. Any workflow leaving a good amount of color  
>>> inks
>>> avalable to utilize would probably be most atractive. However  
>>> here I'm
>>> running the lightest K all the way up the scale, which the RGB  
>>> driver
>>> won't allow.
>>> I'm talking UCK3s, not tried anything else on it.
>>> The various RIP options will let you do this of course, and possibly
>>> the ABW driver, I'm just not sure the ABW driver leaves enough color
>>> ink available to tone attractively, but I've not tried it. Also, it
>>> would be of use to change the tone throughout the scale, something
>>> they should put in that driver.
>>> I'm not sure if neutral is a good target use for this paper. I also
>>> found it all had to be done by eye, to taste, a techie aproach  
>>> didn't
>>> take things very far.
>>> So far, under a variety of B&W uses, the Epson K3 blacks have been
>>> mostly a problem to solve, they are unattractive.
>>> Tyler
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho"
>>> <erudolph@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Metamerism.  The print looked greenish-blue.  Previously, under
>>>> tungsten, daylight, even fluorescent, I had seen this print as  
>>>> pretty
>>>> neutral.  The gallery owner and her assistant looked at it.  The
>>>> assistant told me not to worry; that this was a common problem for
>>>> inkjet prints.  I was pretty embarrassed.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
>>>> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> In what way was it simply awful?
>>>>> Steve Gledhill
>>>>> http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/
>>>>>
>>>>> edrudolpho wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve
>>>> Gledhill
>>>>>> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can only speak for myself - obviously.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a superb paper and I use it extensively. Particularly for
>>> large
>>>>>>> prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
>>>>>>> Why? Deep blacks. Warmish creamyish paper colour which I
>>>> particularly
>>>>>>> like for my work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400).  
>>>>>> Until
>>>>>> one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag
>>> ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
>>>>>> print. The print looked simply awful under their lighting. I lost
>>>>>> faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS  
>>>>>> EZWarm to
>>>>>> replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings. I haven't
>>> been
>>>>>> back to the gallery yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 	
>>>>> 	
>>>>> 		
>>>>> ___________________________________________________________
>>>>> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its  
>>>>> simplicity
>>>> and ease of use." - PC Magazine
>>>>> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>>> resources as they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
>>> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
>>> visiting this same page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
>>> to keep them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed
>>> from the membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
>>> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>>> removed from the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
>>> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
>>> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and  
>>> Guidelines�
>>> in the Files section:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
>>> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
>>> GROUP SHALL
>>> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
>>> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
>>> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
>>> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS�  
>>> OF DIGITAL
>>> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
>>> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
>>> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO
>>> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
>>> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
>>> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

[Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Tyler Boley

of course, as with any decent profile used with a color driver. But
then, I'm not wild about this K's black with the RGB driver either, I
find a build more to my liking. At this point though, any such
techniques seem to have gone with the wind except for a certifiable few.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 1/18/07 2:17:51 PM, tyler@... writes:
> 
> 
> > So far, under a variety of B&W uses, the Epson K3 blacks have been
> > mostly a problem to solve, they are unattractive.
> > 
> 
> This is all automatic when using the K3s (or other such inksets) with 
> PrintFIX PRO2; as long as neutral can be reached, the default
profile will print as 
> neutral. You can then tint as desired with the same tinting as any
other 
> inkset, since it all starts from neutral, not from the inkset and
driver's idea of 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> gray.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> What will your policy be five years from now...

probably unchanged from now- get up in the morning, usually.

>... if something shifts?

oh that...

> How  
> long do all of us printers guarantee

other than I may have gotten up in the morning, I don't find it good
policy to guarentee much of anything...

Really though... it's true. With the UC mono builds anyone I've done
it for is aware of the downside. It's not usual practice here but I
experiment with anything potentially interesting... if I got up that day.
Still, other than being informed and informing others, I don't think
it's our place to gaurentee materials longevity, do you? Epson won't
do it!
Tyler

[Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by john dean

The good thing about Roy Harrington's QTR/UC approach is that it shuts
off the yellow channel completely and you can do that with Studo Print
and Bauhaus. At that point with Ultrachrome the worry is the Magenta,
and especially the light Magenta. Those ARE going to change
eventually. Apparently the cyan channel is very durable.

John




 But it's hard to say how and when these
> mono UC prints may change.
> But certainly not a silly question, it's just the only viable inkset
> to use on this paper available to me right now. I've only played with
> it, and printed on it for one person who likes it. The Portriga clone
> we worked out on it is attractive.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@> wrote:
> >
> > Silly question, when one of the colors starts to fade (not sure how  
> > soon that happens), won't a color cast jump right out in a black and  
> > white print made with color inks? It might not happen now, but what  
> > if in a few years or a poorly stored or exhibited photo. Should we  
> > worry?
> > Mark
> > 
> > On Jan 18, 2007, at 2:11 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
> > 
> > > I confess I have not really explored how much metmerism was involved
> > > in the prints I've made here.
> > > What I found was that the hue of the Epson K and light Ks on Silver
> > > Rag is very unattractive. So much more use of the color inks is
> > > necessary than one might think to make it work.
> > > The use I liked best was to go with the direction indicated by the
> > > base and move the whole tone towards warm, like Portriga or Forte.
> > > Seemed to work well. Any workflow leaving a good amount of color
inks
> > > avalable to utilize would probably be most atractive. However
here I'm
> > > running the lightest K all the way up the scale, which the RGB
driver
> > > won't allow.
> > > I'm talking UCK3s, not tried anything else on it.
> > > The various RIP options will let you do this of course, and possibly
> > > the ABW driver, I'm just not sure the ABW driver leaves enough color
> > > ink available to tone attractively, but I've not tried it. Also, it
> > > would be of use to change the tone throughout the scale, something
> > > they should put in that driver.
> > > I'm not sure if neutral is a good target use for this paper. I also
> > > found it all had to be done by eye, to taste, a techie aproach
didn't
> > > take things very far.
> > > So far, under a variety of B&W uses, the Epson K3 blacks have been
> > > mostly a problem to solve, they are unattractive.
> > > Tyler
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "edrudolpho"
> > > <erudolph@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Metamerism.  The print looked greenish-blue.  Previously, under
> > >> tungsten, daylight, even fluorescent, I had seen this print as
pretty
> > >> neutral.  The gallery owner and her assistant looked at it.  The
> > >> assistant told me not to worry; that this was a common problem for
> > >> inkjet prints.  I was pretty embarrassed.
> > >>
> > >> Ed
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Gledhill
> > >> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> In what way was it simply awful?
> > >>> Steve Gledhill
> > >>> http://www.virtuallygrey.co.uk/
> > >>>
> > >>> edrudolpho wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > >>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>, Steve
> > >> Gledhill
> > >>>> <stephengledhill@> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Can only speak for myself - obviously.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> It's a superb paper and I use it extensively. Particularly for
> > > large
> > >>>>> prints on my 4800 - with K3 inks, and ABW and QTR-Create-ICC.
> > >>>>> Why? Deep blacks. Warmish creamyish paper colour which I
> > >> particularly
> > >>>>> like for my work.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This is exactly the workflow I was using (except on a 2400).
Until
> > >>>> one day I walked into a gallery with a SilverRag
> > > ABW-K3-QTRIcc-printed
> > >>>> print. The print looked simply awful under their lighting. I lost
> > >>>> faith in the all-Epson ABW approach and ordered some MIS
EZWarm to
> > >>>> replace the yellow ink and rejiggered my ABW settings. I haven't
> > > been
> > >>>> back to the gallery yet.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Ed
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> 	
> > >>> 	
> > >>> 		
> > >>> ___________________________________________________________
> > >>> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its
simplicity
> > >> and ease of use." - PC Magazine
> > >>> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> > >>>
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-18 by Mark Savoia

No, but clients want to hear it anyway. Curse that Kodak for ever  
connecting the word archival to the photo industry :)
Mark

On Jan 18, 2007, at 3:17 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> I don't think
> it's our place to gaurentee materials longevity, do you?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-19 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/18/07 5:35:18 PM, bwyg@... writes:


> I don't know if we should worry. All I know is that I *do* worry. This
> is one of the reasons why I print B&W with PiezoTones.
> 

And where do those tints in tinted inksets come from? From color pigments in 
the inks. Whether you apply them in the ink with a fixed inkset, or apply them 
from tinting carts in a variable inkset, or straight to the paper from 
seperate full color carts in a color inkset, they are still color pigments. 
Neutral-only inksets (or carbon-only) are the only ones that avoid this, and by 
avoiding it, they are limited pretty much to a single tone, and whatever tint that 
tone produces on a given paper.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-19 by Tyler Boley

actually with regard to the Piezotone sets this is incorrect. The
Piezotone sets outlasted the UC inks in published longevity tests.
Also, the carbon only idea seems to be a myth as well, the "tinted"
Piezotone sets outperformed the pure carbon set, which also
outperformed the UCs.
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 1/18/07 5:35:18 PM, bwyg@... writes:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if we should worry. All I know is that I *do* worry. This
> > is one of the reasons why I print B&W with PiezoTones.
> > 
> 
> And where do those tints in tinted inksets come from? From color
pigments in 
> the inks. Whether you apply them in the ink with a fixed inkset, or
apply them 
> from tinting carts in a variable inkset, or straight to the paper from 
> seperate full color carts in a color inkset, they are still color
pigments. 
> Neutral-only inksets (or carbon-only) are the only ones that avoid
this, and by 
> avoiding it, they are limited pretty much to a single tone, and
whatever tint that 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> tone produces on a given paper.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Division
> DataColor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-19 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/18/07 8:02:31 PM, tyler@... writes:


> actually with regard to the Piezotone sets this is incorrect. The
> Piezotone sets outlasted the UC inks in published longevity tests.
> Also, the carbon only idea seems to be a myth as well, the "tinted"
> Piezotone sets outperformed the pure carbon set, which also
> outperformed the UCs.
> 

None of which changes what I said; its still color, its just stable color. 
Its pretty stable in the other configurations as well...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Crane Museo Silver Rag

2007-01-19 by Paul Roark

Mark wrote:

> ... when one of the colors starts to fade (not sure how 
> soon that happens), won't a color cast jump right out in a black and 
> white print made with color inks?

I think that's close to the top of my list of concerns.


Tyler wrote:

>... It's one obvious argument in support of mono inksets.

I'd say it's an argument in favor of black only printing.  I don't believe
there is a neutral inkset that is not a blend that includes color inks.

I'm curious to see the extent to which these new 1.5 pl printers can utilize
Eboni high up in the scale.  The denser the carbon ink, the more neutral it
appears to be, thus the less color needs to be added.  If a large part of
the ramp can be a relatively neutral, high density carbon, we might be able
to reduce the color inks.  Whether or not Eboni is useful, in general, I
think there is a trade-off between smoothness and print stability. 

> However, so far the stories of differential
> fade and resulting mono prints changing hue all over 
> the place have not trickled in.

Fortunately, our current materials are good enough that most will not notice
anything for years.  The OBAs fading are probably the first thing they'll
see -- which is one reason I prefer non-brightened paper. 

> There is some longevity evidence to support the mono inks
> I use over the ultrachromes.

Assuming a person uses a rip to get the yellow out, the differential I've
seen between the UC and third party pigs (MIS and Piezo test about the same)
seems to largely disappear if the UC prints are sprayed with a UV blocker
like Premier Art Print Shield.  In one of my tests, a UC pigment based mono
inkset I mixed, where the test strip was sprayed, had the lowest delta e.
However, when one uses Print Shield, the dmax is reduced.  So, I think the
third party ink solution, which appears to have a light UV blocker in the
base, makes for the best compromise (especially if the UC LM is used).

John wrote:

> ... with Ultrachrome the worry is the Magenta,
> and especially the light Magenta. Those ARE going 
> to change eventually.

Looking for the best magenta or substitute has been part of what I've tried
to do.  So far, I think Epson's UC LM is the best, but I want to re-test
some of the combinations to get better data.

> Apparently the cyan channel is very durable.

Cyan is very lightfast, but it is vulnerable to gas fade. 

Truth is, we do not have perfect materials, but the silver print was far
from ideal also.  Then again there is a pastel painting hanging next to one
of my B&W inkjet prints in a mixed media show, and the pastels are literally
falling off the paper and settling on the mat and glazing.  The pastel print
is just ruined in my view, but the artist felt it was just an acceptable
byproduct of that medium.  Our problems don't seem so bad in comparison.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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