Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-19 by Ian

After a few years of struggling with getting true(er) b/w prints 
from my Photoshopped files at 3rd party labs, I broke open my piggy 
bang and shelled out the $1,100 for the new Epson printer.  With a 
sampler pack of papers from Red River in hand and a whole lot of 
wide-eyed optimism, i began making prints. I'd hoped to get some 
true b/w prints without the subtle green or magenta hues I'd been 
getting from the photo lab but no such luck.  It's almost worse now. 
My crt monitor has been calibrated, I'm editing with Photoshop 7.0 
and I believe I have a good enough grasp of the color management 
work flow to get this right.  Ideally, I'd be using the correct icc 
profile for the paper/printer in PS, have the color management 
turned off on the print driver and i'd get an accurate print. This 
isn't happening.  I've tried allowing the print driver to do the 
color management in the b/w mode but that's only slightly better.
I'm scratching my head with frustration (made worse as I watch my 
precious ink cartridge levels drop with each bad print).

Help!  Any advice would be much appreciated.  I'm digging through 
the messages now to see if I've missed any helpful posts.  

Regards,

Ian aka inframephotography
Olympia, WA

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-19 by Tom Baker

Are you using the ABW mode?
   
  Tom Baker

Ian <inframepix@...> wrote:
          After a few years of struggling with getting true(er) b/w prints 
from my Photoshopped files at 3rd party labs, I broke open my piggy 
bang and shelled out the $1,100 for the new Epson printer. With a 
sampler pack of papers from Red River in hand and a whole lot of 
wide-eyed optimism, i began making prints. I'd hoped to get some 
true b/w prints without the subtle green or magenta hues I'd been 
getting from the photo lab but no such luck. It's almost worse now. 
My crt monitor has been calibrated, I'm editing with Photoshop 7.0 
and I believe I have a good enough grasp of the color management 
work flow to get this right. Ideally, I'd be using the correct icc 
profile for the paper/printer in PS, have the color management 
turned off on the print driver and i'd get an accurate print. This 
isn't happening. I've tried allowing the print driver to do the 
color management in the b/w mode but that's only slightly better.
I'm scratching my head with frustration (made worse as I watch my 
precious ink cartridge levels drop with each bad print).

Help! Any advice would be much appreciated. I'm digging through 
the messages now to see if I've missed any helpful posts. 

Regards,

Ian aka inframephotography
Olympia, WA



         


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-19 by Ian

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker 
<tbaker1328@...> wrote:
>
> Are you using the ABW mode?
>    
>   Tom Baker
> 
> Ian <inframepix@...> wrote:
>           After a few years of struggling with getting true(er) 
b/w prints 
> from my Photoshopped files at 3rd party labs, I broke open my 
piggy 
> bang and shelled out the $1,100 for the new Epson printer. With a 
> sampler pack of papers from Red River in hand and a whole lot of 
> wide-eyed optimism, i began making prints. I'd hoped to get some 
> true b/w prints without the subtle green or magenta hues I'd been 
> getting from the photo lab but no such luck. It's almost worse 
now. 
> My crt monitor has been calibrated, I'm editing with Photoshop 7.0 
> and I believe I have a good enough grasp of the color management 
> work flow to get this right. Ideally, I'd be using the correct icc 
> profile for the paper/printer in PS, have the color management 
> turned off on the print driver and i'd get an accurate print. This 
> isn't happening. I've tried allowing the print driver to do the 
> color management in the b/w mode but that's only slightly better.
> I'm scratching my head with frustration (made worse as I watch my 
> precious ink cartridge levels drop with each bad print).
> 
> Help! Any advice would be much appreciated. I'm digging through 
> the messages now to see if I've missed any helpful posts. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ian aka inframephotography
> Olympia, WA
> 
> 
> 
>          
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I'm not at home but from what i remember there are 3 modes: 
color
black
and advanced B/W
ABW is Advanced B/W?
Yes then, i've used the ABW mode but did not make any adjustments.

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-19 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/19/07 3:12:12 PM, inframepix@... writes:


> Ideally, I'd be using the correct icc
> profile for the paper/printer in PS, have the color management
> turned off on the print driver and i'd get an accurate print. This
> isn't happening. 
> 
Well, canned ICC profiles typically don't offer sufficient precision for 
gallery quality B&W, and even less so on third party papers. That workflow would 
certainly work with PrintFIX PRO 2.0 profiles but that would add another cost 
to the process.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-19 by Ian

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CorrPro96@... 
wrote:
>
> Have you profiled your monitor?
> Have you profiled the paper you are using?
>  
> Richard (Brooklyn)
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I was just reading elsewhere about how to run msconfig to make sure 
that Adobe Gamma is disabled in startup.  When I bought a 
calibration device I assumed it would over-ride / disable Adobe 
Gamma.  Is it possible that Adoble Gamma has been loaded all this 
time?  I'll check it out when I get home.

I used the epson profiles for the premium lustre samples which came 
with the printer and I used the profiles Red River supplies on their 
website for the papers.  

I'm curious to know if it's something in photoshop?
I've been thinking that I should also try opening a file straight 
from the camera into MS photo editor and print with ABW set in the 
print driver and see what happens.

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-20 by Eric Neilsen

If I remember back to PS 7, Adobe Gamma is loaded or defaulted. It can
easily be turned off in the msconfig/startup menu. The profiles from Red
River like any provided profile may be very close and may not be; the ones
that I have used from Red River seems pretty darn good for free. If you are
using the wrong profile, ie bad color can happen such as PK with an MK
profile or flipped. 

 

I found that I got good color, or lack thereof with printer profile set to
same as source within PS and with a gray gamma 2.2 file. The Epson driver is
set to no color management. You do need to make some adjustments with the
ABW settings to achieve a good print. 

 

What have you done to select a tone? Cool? Neutral? Warm? Any settings?   

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 5:53 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints

 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CorrPro96@... 
wrote:
>
> Have you profiled your monitor?
> Have you profiled the paper you are using?
> 
> Richard (Brooklyn)
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I was just reading elsewhere about how to run msconfig to make sure 
that Adobe Gamma is disabled in startup. When I bought a 
calibration device I assumed it would over-ride / disable Adobe 
Gamma. Is it possible that Adoble Gamma has been loaded all this 
time? I'll check it out when I get home.

I used the epson profiles for the premium lustre samples which came 
with the printer and I used the profiles Red River supplies on their 
website for the papers. 

I'm curious to know if it's something in photoshop?
I've been thinking that I should also try opening a file straight 
from the camera into MS photo editor and print with ABW set in the 
print driver and see what happens.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-20 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/19/07 7:02:51 PM, inframepix@... writes:


> I'm curious to know if it's something in photoshop?
> I've been thinking that I should also try opening a file straight
> from the camera into MS photo editor and print with ABW set in the
> print driver and see what happens.
> 

Thats really not your best test image. Use a stock test image thats been 
desaturates so R=G=B.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-20 by Eric Neilsen

IMHO it is best to print B&W images in the ABW from gray scale files, but
that is just the way I work. To simply desaturate an image doesn't give you
control of tonal conversion. Why give up that control? Do you conversion to
B&W and print the B&W file in the ABW mode. Unless you have a profiling
system for color that you can make work better/ with more detail in the
blacks, blah, blah, blah..

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:22 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints

 


In a message dated 1/19/07 7:02:51 PM, inframepix@hotmail.
<mailto:inframepix%40hotmail.com> com writes:

> I'm curious to know if it's something in photoshop?
> I've been thinking that I should also try opening a file straight
> from the camera into MS photo editor and print with ABW set in the
> print driver and see what happens.
> 

Thats really not your best test image. Use a stock test image thats been 
desaturates so R=G=B.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
www.colorvision.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-20 by John Moody

Very true, but that suggestion was strictly to produce a numerically gray
file to assess the resulting tone of the print i.e., the green hue.  That
would take the monitor calibration out of the equation.  The original poster
also seems to have confusion about the role of ABW; reading the manual again
is in order, followed by any more questions he may have.

Best regards,
John Moody
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Eric
Neilsen
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 12:26 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints

IMHO it is best to print B&W images in the ABW from gray scale files, but
that is just the way I work. To simply desaturate an image doesn't give you
control of tonal conversion. Why give up that control? Do you conversion to
B&W and print the B&W file in the ABW mode. Unless you have a profiling
system for color that you can make work better/ with more detail in the
blacks, blah, blah, blah..

Eric Neilsen Photography



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/20/07 12:36:28 PM, e.neilsen2@... writes:


> IMHO it is best to print B&W images in the ABW from gray scale files, but
> that is just the way I work. To simply desaturate an image doesn't give you
> control of tonal conversion. Why give up that control?
> 

A desaturated RGB image means one where all three channels are identical. It 
doesn't mean its done via the desaturate command, it can be done via any and 
all of the special tools, methods, and plugins for conversion. Some give you a 
three channel neutral result, some give you a one channel neutral result, that 
you can bump back up to three channels if your workflow starts from an RGB 
instead of a grayscale file. Printing from AWB means losing all preview, and all 
tinting tools except the AWB dartboard, and doesn't allow for crosstinting. 
So there are lots or reasons to consider other methods, even for those who work 
from grayscale files.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by Eric Neilsen

David, You miss the point. You said, "That's really not your best test
image. Use a stock test image thats been 
desaturates so R=G=B" . I see no where here an implication of anything other
than simple desaturation. I also did not see Ian, you remember, the guy
asking for help, indicating that he had anything other than the Epson
driver. One of the really great features for people with out profiling
software/hardware was the addition of ABW from earlier drivers. 

 

Yes, The control of converting to B&W can be done and then with a simple
click of a button I can convert it back to RGB, but with a simple click of a
button a will not be able to place the red values here and the green values
there, and . And since the user was complaining of getting green hues, it
made sense to try and work another path to a successful outcome rather than
a "tweak" in the color realm. 

 

The dart board as you call it, is no more than the dartboard of Print Fix.
They both require a personal evaluation of some setting. And it requires no
additional software to print in ABW with the Epson driver, which for some is
THE option as opposed to those of us that have multiple options. While some
may feel there is excess color in the ABW, perhaps Ian is more concern with
a neutral print first and than more toward other satisfying results. 

 

I have made very nice looking neutral prints with the ABW feature before I
bought Print Fix and I am sure Ian can as well. I also was quite able to
adjust the screen to get very close. So Ian, if your prints are greenish,
and you haven't tried just printing with ABW from a gray scale file, give it
a try. Yes, you can print an RGB with ABW that has or does not have color
values that are uneven or not equal. It is not hard to adjust the color
selector to tune in your paper. Ian said, "Yes then, i've used the ABW mode
but did not make any adjustments." 

 

Ian, different paper selection will also affect your prints color, so choose
them wisely.  Did any of your Red River paper prints look close? My prints
on their Polar matte look great. However, they seem to like Hi speed
printing and my life is not so hurried, I prefer to uncheck that box. 

 

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:54 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints

 


In a message dated 1/20/07 12:36:28 PM, e.neilsen2@worldnet
<mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net writes:

> IMHO it is best to print B&W images in the ABW from gray scale files, but
> that is just the way I work. To simply desaturate an image doesn't give
you
> control of tonal conversion. Why give up that control?
> 

A desaturated RGB image means one where all three channels are identical. It

doesn't mean its done via the desaturate command, it can be done via any and

all of the special tools, methods, and plugins for conversion. Some give you
a 
three channel neutral result, some give you a one channel neutral result,
that 
you can bump back up to three channels if your workflow starts from an RGB 
instead of a grayscale file. Printing from AWB means losing all preview, and
all 
tinting tools except the AWB dartboard, and doesn't allow for crosstinting. 
So there are lots or reasons to consider other methods, even for those who
work 
from grayscale files.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
www.colorvision.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/21/07 12:32:04 AM, e.neilsen2@... writes:


> David, You miss the point. You said, "That's really not your best test
> image. Use a stock test image thats been
> desaturates so R=G=B" . I see no where here an implication of anything other
> than simple desaturation.
> 
Any test image in RGB needs to be a desaturated image, or it will contain 
intentional color casts; as R does not equal G equal B. If you look at the 
ColorVision Black and White test image, all the photos it contains were converted 
via my own preferred method, at high bit. The final test image is 8 bits per 
channel, in RGB. If you run the "desaturate" function on it, just to be sure, it 
won't change anything, its already neutral. If you take any of its three 
channels and make them a standalone grayscale file, they will print just like the 
original RGB version. Thats a desaturated RGB image, as is any other image 
which is in RGB, and does not change when the desaturate command it run on it, or 
when its stripped to a grayscale file. Its this definition of a desaturated 
RGB image (or my wording in describing one) thats bothering you.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/21/07 12:32:04 AM, e.neilsen2@... writes:


> And since the user was complaining of getting green hues, it
> made sense to try and work another path to a successful outcome rather than
> a "tweak" in the color realm.
> 
Feel free to try to sell him on another method; I'm reassuring him that the 
method he's using can actually work, as I do it every day with great results.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/21/07 12:32:04 AM, e.neilsen2@... writes:


> The dart board as you call it, is no more than the dartboard of Print Fix.
> They both require a personal evaluation of some setting.
> 

PrintFIX PRO has sliders, not a dartboard, and it offers control of more 
factors than the AWB dartboard. But the important difference is that there 
PrintFIX PRO uses spectro-based measurements of linearity and neutrality produced 
from the printer's actual output on a given paper, via a given process, before 
any adjusting (if any adjustment is desired) even starts. Less like a dartboard, 
more like a sniper rifle's laserscope.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by Eric Neilsen Photo

You can have all the sliders in the world but you still need to look at the
print to evaluate what they do. Simple as that; the eye of the sniper. I
didn't even look at the sepia setting in Print Fix. Why? I am pig headed.
Really, almost all the preset sepia settings stink for what I want. Ian will
still be the ultimate eye looking at his prints; either with or without
additional software. 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:14 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints

 


In a message dated 1/21/07 12:32:04 AM, e.neilsen2@worldnet
<mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net writes:

> The dart board as you call it, is no more than the dartboard of Print Fix.
> They both require a personal evaluation of some setting.
> 

PrintFIX PRO has sliders, not a dartboard, and it offers control of more 
factors than the AWB dartboard. But the important difference is that there 
PrintFIX PRO uses spectro-based measurements of linearity and neutrality
produced 
from the printer's actual output on a given paper, via a given process,
before 
any adjusting (if any adjustment is desired) even starts. Less like a
dartboard, 
more like a sniper rifle's laserscope.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
www.colorvision.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by Eric Neilsen Photo

Same here, but I am NOT SELLING anything. I am GIVING free advice that will
cost him only time and a little ink and paper. 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CDTobie@...
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:08 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints

 


In a message dated 1/21/07 12:32:04 AM, e.neilsen2@worldnet
<mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net writes:

> And since the user was complaining of getting green hues, it
> made sense to try and work another path to a successful outcome rather
than
> a "tweak" in the color realm.
> 
Feel free to try to sell him on another method; I'm reassuring him that the 
method he's using can actually work, as I do it every day with great
results.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Division
DataColor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision <mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com> .com
www.colorvision.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by CorrPro96@aol.com

In a message dated 1/21/2007 12:09:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
e.neilsen2@... writes:

You can  have all the sliders in the world but you still need to look at the
print  to evaluate what they do. Simple as that; the eye of the sniper. I
didn't  even look at the sepia setting in Print Fix. Why? I am pig headed.
Really,  almost all the preset sepia settings stink for what I want. Ian will
still  be the ultimate eye looking at his prints; either with or  without
additional software. 



Eric Neilsen  Photography



Very true. But CD's point about control thru the sliders in PFP, and the  
tester to look at and make corrections is what makes the difference. The dry  
down with ABW is also a factor with Silver Rag at least, because it is  
considerably different from the wet print. It seems to just keep on going.
The sliders beat the dartboard.
 
Richard (Brooklyn)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-21 by Eric Neilsen Photo

Richard, It will always come down to visual inspection. If you need to wait
a week then you wait a week to make your adjustments. If there is no
difference in dry down on silver rag with the same inks by just using PFP,
than perhaps the user of ABW has either missed something important in their
set up, or users of ABW and silver Rag better listen UP. Richard has some
news for you : ) .   I don't use silver rag as it is a PK ink paper. I can't
speak to those issues specifically. 

 

When I profile paper, I don't just wait a day before reading my targets, I
wait up to a week.  Ian also posted in his first request for help that he
just broke open his piggy bank and while I don't take that in a literal way,
I do expect that he might have limited funds and for now, my answer to his
questions are based on ABW and how to get a good print. If he has another
piggy bank that he is ready to crack into, I am sure he'll have lots of info
to go back to and see how to spend another $500.00.

 

So Ian, Are you getting this? Or are we talking right past you?

   

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
CorrPro96@...
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:49 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints

 


In a message dated 1/21/2007 12:09:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
e.neilsen2@worldnet <mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net writes:

You can have all the sliders in the world but you still need to look at the
print to evaluate what they do. Simple as that; the eye of the sniper. I
didn't even look at the sepia setting in Print Fix. Why? I am pig headed.
Really, almost all the preset sepia settings stink for what I want. Ian will
still be the ultimate eye looking at his prints; either with or without
additional software. 

Eric Neilsen Photography

Very true. But CD's point about control thru the sliders in PFP, and the 
tester to look at and make corrections is what makes the difference. The dry

down with ABW is also a factor with Silver Rag at least, because it is 
considerably different from the wet print. It seems to just keep on going.
The sliders beat the dartboard.

Richard (Brooklyn)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-22 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 1/21/07 1:58:29 PM, e.neilsen2@... writes:


> If you need to wait
> a week then you wait a week to make your adjustments. If there is no
> difference in dry down on silver rag with the same inks by just using PFP,
> 

Its not that the drydown is different, its that the tools in PrintFIX PRO 
allow you to make visual adjustments based on a softproof from the original 
measurements of the dried down ink, so that you don't have to wait for each 
adjustment to dry for a week to have a pretty good idea of what the result will be. 
Thats one advantage of an ICC based solution.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-22 by Ian

I just wanted to post an update to thank everyone for their input and 
help.  At this point, I'm getting some decent prints finally.
I have a suggestion for Epson.  The set-up instructions should require 
a nozzle cleaning and head alignment be run before ever attempting to  
print anything with this printer. 25 test prints and about 30% of my 
ink were wasted before i ran both of these utilities and "voila"... 
not only is the image quality perfect... the hues are gone and I'm 
getting very accurate prints with color management turned off in PS 
and using the ABW settings without any adjustments.  I'm still a bit 
irked that I should have had to spend $100 in materials (ot to mention 
late night hours pulling my hair out) before realizing that running 
the nozzle/head utilities might be the solution.  I've stil not run a 
test allowing PS to control the color management through icc profiles 
but that's next.

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-22 by Ian

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CorrPro96@... 
wrote:
>
>  
> In a message dated 1/21/2007 12:09:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> e.neilsen2@... writes:
> 
> You can  have all the sliders in the world but you still need to 
look at the
> print  to evaluate what they do. Simple as that; the eye of the 
sniper. I
> didn't  even look at the sepia setting in Print Fix. Why? I am pig 
headed.
> Really,  almost all the preset sepia settings stink for what I 
want. Ian will
> still  be the ultimate eye looking at his prints; either with or  
without
> additional software. 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Neilsen  Photography
> 
> 
> 
> Very true. But CD's point about control thru the sliders in PFP, 
and the  
> tester to look at and make corrections is what makes the 
difference. The dry  
> down with ABW is also a factor with Silver Rag at least, because 
it is  
> considerably different from the wet print. It seems to just keep 
on going.
> The sliders beat the dartboard.
>  
> Richard (Brooklyn)
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
and, yes, I agree that sliders sound much better than the dartboard.

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-22 by Eric Neilsen

Ian, that's great news. When I set up my 4800 that was the very first thing
that the instruction said to do, a head alignment and nozzle check. Now open
up the ABW and look at the sliders there. Yes, the dartboard inside of ABW
has sliders. They are just much less accurate than those that you pay the
extra money for. Realize that I do have PFP that David is talking about
using. It is great, but If you don't have the money than certainly use the
sliders in ABW. If you want to spend some and not a lot, go to QTR. Enjoy
your clog free printing.

 

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street

Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

http://e.neilsen.home.att.net

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype ejprinter

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:45 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints

 

I just wanted to post an update to thank everyone for their input and 
help. At this point, I'm getting some decent prints finally.
I have a suggestion for Epson. The set-up instructions should require 
a nozzle cleaning and head alignment be run before ever attempting to 
print anything with this printer. 25 test prints and about 30% of my 
ink were wasted before i ran both of these utilities and "voila"... 
not only is the image quality perfect... the hues are gone and I'm 
getting very accurate prints with color management turned off in PS 
and using the ABW settings without any adjustments. I'm still a bit 
irked that I should have had to spend $100 in materials (ot to mention 
late night hours pulling my hair out) before realizing that running 
the nozzle/head utilities might be the solution. I've stil not run a 
test allowing PS to control the color management through icc profiles 
but that's next.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-22 by CorrPro96@aol.com

In a message dated 1/22/2007 12:56:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
inframepix@... writes:

I'm  still a bit 
irked that I should have had to spend $100 in materials (ot to  mention 
late night hours pulling my hair out) before realizing that  running 
the nozzle/head utilities might be the solution.  I've stil  not run a 
test allowing PS to control the color management through icc  profiles 
but that's next.



Hey.... that's the initiation fee to get you on your learning curve in  
printmaking. After a while, you'll look at a test print and see that a nozzle or  
two isn't there. There is no substitute for experience in this game, unless you 
 want to spend the bucks for a workshop, and then you still have to use your  
third eye. Of course you'll know better what to look at and what to look for. 
 Welcome to the club.
 
Richard (Brooklyn)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Expensive exprience was Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800

2007-01-22 by Tyler Boley

I get calls about color problems and am always suprised they haven't
checked nozzles. When they do there's unually one color badly out.
I do a nozzle check before almost every print, certainly before every
hard won final.
It sounds silly, and unnecessary, but I do eventually learn something...
There's no indication anything like this should be necessary until you
find a group like this.
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CorrPro96@... wrote:
>
>  
> In a message dated 1/22/2007 12:56:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
> inframepix@... writes:
> 
> I'm  still a bit 
> irked that I should have had to spend $100 in materials (ot to  mention 
> late night hours pulling my hair out) before realizing that  running 
> the nozzle/head utilities might be the solution.  I've stil  not run a 
> test allowing PS to control the color management through icc  profiles 
> but that's next.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey.... that's the initiation fee to get you on your learning curve in  
> printmaking. After a while, you'll look at a test print and see that
a nozzle or  
> two isn't there. There is no substitute for experience in this game,
unless you 
>  want to spend the bucks for a workshop, and then you still have to
use your  
> third eye. Of course you'll know better what to look at and what to
look for. 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  Welcome to the club.
>  
> Richard (Brooklyn)
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w prints

2007-01-22 by Carolyn Frayn

On 22-Jan-07, at 10:44 AM, Ian wrote:

> I'm still a bit
> irked that I should have had to spend $100 in materials (ot to mention
> late night hours pulling my hair out) before realizing that running
> the nozzle/head utilities might be the solution.

<G> it is the unfortunately part of the fun, the expense part... I  
hope you give QTR a try, you don't need PFP or other spectro to use  
it because you can try the user profiles.  If you want to get into  
your own measuring, linearization, etc.. PFP is a good cost effective  
solution which would allow you to linearize QTR and also allow you to  
create your own color profiles should you print color.

Carolyn

---
http://www.carolynfrayn.com

RE: Expensive exprience was Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800

2007-01-22 by John Moody

It’s on page 84 of the manual. <big grin>.
I’ve been doing nozzle checks every day on the 3800.  I needed manual
cleanings on 4 separate occasions so far, in addition to the ones it decides
to do on it’s own.  The first manual cleaning appears to use very little
ink, and (the printer) wiping the head seems to do good things.  I no longer
attempt to avoid the cleanings, as it seems to need them to keep working
perfectly.  I recently had a single magenta nozzle spraying off angle that
did not clean up on the first cleaning, and required a second hit.

Best regards,
John Moody
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tyler
Boley
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 3:58 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Expensive exprience was Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson
3800

I get calls about color problems and am always suprised they haven't
checked nozzles. When they do there's unually one color badly out.
I do a nozzle check before almost every print, certainly before every
hard won final.
It sounds silly, and unnecessary, but I do eventually learn something...
There's no indication anything like this should be necessary until you
find a group like this.
Tyler



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 Print Fix Pro / Gretag MacBeth Eye-One

2007-01-23 by gcwagner

On the topic of printer / paper profiles for color or b&w does anyone have
recommendations on the use of Print Fix Pro vs. Gretag Eye One Design or
Photo? I see the Gretag costs more but I only want to spend the money one
time and want to develop a good working system that will last for some time.
Thanks,
Gary W.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Carolyn
Frayn
  Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:50 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] a new user with an Epson 3800 and green hued b/w
prints



  On 22-Jan-07, at 10:44 AM, Ian wrote:

  > I'm still a bit
  > irked that I should have had to spend $100 in materials (ot to mention
  > late night hours pulling my hair out) before realizing that running
  > the nozzle/head utilities might be the solution.

  <G> it is the unfortunately part of the fun, the expense part... I
  hope you give QTR a try, you don't need PFP or other spectro to use
  it because you can try the user profiles. If you want to get into
  your own measuring, linearization, etc.. PFP is a good cost effective
  solution which would allow you to linearize QTR and also allow you to
  create your own color profiles should you print color.

  Carolyn

  ---
  http://www.carolynfrayn.com


  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.