Digital BW, The Print

I print B&W with an Epson R1800 with three cartridges of Eboni and QuadTone RIP. I just reloaded it after long hiatus. After getting a clean nozzle check, I made a print (landscape orientation).  It looks great except for one thing.  On the left side of the print (which comes out of the printer last), there is a vertical band, about 3/8 inch wide, that is slightly darker than the adjoining area. It may actually be two bands, the outer one darker than the inner.

I remember having occasionally seen this before, and I'm wondering if I'm exceeding some minimum margin limit.  The print is letter size, 8.5x11 inches.  My right and left margin for this print were about .28 inch.  I don't have this problem with a color version of the same file on my R200 printer using the Epson driver.

Anybody know what causes these bands?  Must I set my margins wider than some specific width to avoid it?  Or is there some setting in QuadTone RIP that I need to tweak?

--Peter

I never print in landscape mode, but if I'm not mistaken, your "left" edge would actually be leading or trailing edge as the paper moves through the printer...
So, with my 1900, and QTR, with minimal margins, I get banding errors at the beginning and end of the print. I'm not sure if it's that the transport doesn't have good control of the physical paper advance at the beginning and end, or what.
But, the solution has been to print on a sheet somewhat too big, with large leading and trailing extra paper. I haven't determined exactly how much it takes, but I'd say an inch seems to do.
I suspect you are seeing some similar incarnation of the same problem. 
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Peter A. Klein" <pklein@...> wrote:

>
> I print B&W with an Epson R1800 with three cartridges of Eboni and QuadTone RIP. I just reloaded it after long hiatus. After getting a clean nozzle check, I made a print (landscape orientation).  It looks great except for one thing.  On the left side of the print (which comes out of the printer last), there is a vertical band, about 3/8 inch wide, that is slightly darker than the adjoining area. It may actually be two bands, the outer one darker than the inner.
> 
> I remember having occasionally seen this before, and I'm wondering if I'm exceeding some minimum margin limit.  The print is letter size, 8.5x11 inches.  My right and left margin for this print were about .28 inch.  I don't have this problem with a color version of the same file on my R200 printer using the Epson driver.
> 
> Anybody know what causes these bands?  Must I set my margins wider than some specific width to avoid it?  Or is there some setting in QuadTone RIP that I need to tweak?
> 
> --Peter
>

Thanks, Tyler.  I think you've nailed it.  My "left edge" is indeed the trailing edge of the print, relative to the printer.  Looking closely, I also see a narrower darker band on the leading edge.

I found nothing of any help in the R1800 docs. Luckily, I still have the installation for my old 1280 (also a 13: carriage) on my machine. The 1280 docs talk about the "minimum" margin checkbox decreasing the minimum margin that the Epson driver allows from 14mm to 3mm, with the warning that your print quality may decline or it might smear.  

When I looked closely at my problem print in good light, the banding on the trailing edge of the R1800 print is just a smidge over 1/2 inch from the paper edge.  So I'll just use a minimum of a half-inch margin from now on.  Which jogs my memory--I think I figured this out a few years ago, but had forgotten.  

You might try the half-inch minimum yourself.  If the mechanical design of your R1900 transport is similar to my R1800's, I suspect you'll be fine with that.

--Peter

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:

>
> I never print in landscape mode, but if I'm not mistaken, your "left" edge would actually be leading or trailing edge as the paper moves through the printer...
> So, with my 1900, and QTR, with minimal margins, I get banding errors at the beginning and end of the print. I'm not sure if it's that the transport doesn't have good control of the physical paper advance at the beginning and end, or what.
> But, the solution has been to print on a sheet somewhat too big, with large leading and trailing extra paper. I haven't determined exactly how much it takes, but I'd say an inch seems to do.
> I suspect you are seeing some similar incarnation of the same problem. 
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Peter A. Klein" <pklein@> wrote:
> >
> > I print B&W with an Epson R1800 with three cartridges of Eboni and QuadTone RIP. I just reloaded it after long hiatus. After getting a clean nozzle check, I made a print (landscape orientation).  It looks great except for one thing.  On the left side of the print (which comes out of the printer last), there is a vertical band, about 3/8 inch wide, that is slightly darker than the adjoining area. It may actually be two bands, the outer one darker than the inner.
> > 
> > I remember having occasionally seen this before, and I'm wondering if I'm exceeding some minimum margin limit.  The print is letter size, 8.5x11 inches.  My right and left margin for this print were about .28 inch.  I don't have this problem with a color version of the same file on my R200 printer using the Epson driver.
> > 
> > Anybody know what causes these bands?  Must I set my margins wider than some specific width to avoid it?  Or is there some setting in QuadTone RIP that I need to tweak?
> > 
> > --Peter
> >
>

i just got a (rather used?) r1800. banding is not only at the borders, but anywhere. (although perfect nozzle test). moreover there are slight blotches in the middle/light greys or gradients,  using jettec inks (because i got it like this) and qtr. 

i'd like to go for mis- or cone-inks and a CIS. but i fear, the print head will not last long any more.

who knows about? 
would you dare buying a CIS for this printer, or rather for my epson 2100 which i bought as new 6 years ago?


christoph

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "christoph fischer" <tarqeq@...> wrote:
>
> i just got a (rather used?) r1800. banding is not only at the borders, but anywhere. (although perfect nozzle test). moreover there are slight blotches in the middle/light greys or gradients,  using jettec inks (because i got it like this) and qtr. 
> 
> i'd like to go for mis- or cone-inks and a CIS. but i fear, the print head will not last long any more.
> 
> who knows about? 
> would you dare buying a CIS for this printer, or rather for my epson 2100 which i bought as new 6 years ago?
> 
> 
> christoph
>

It is probably the inks rather than the printer. The 1800 does tend to band with non-OEM inks. It is worse on some papers (glossy RC) than others. IF you try Epson inks in it you may find the issue disappears. I am not familiar with Jettec inks. Are they pigments and if so are they in fact Image Specialist Inks? BLotching, I don't know. COuld the heads, the inks or the ink delivery.

I have not used Cone inks in an 1800 but do use MIS (Image Specialists) inks in one. Banding is just visible in very strong sunlight when first printed but funnily enough it seems to disappear after a while. HP Glossy paper showed the worst banding but even this disappeared after a few weeks. (!)

The Image Specialist inks in an R1800 with a second pass of around 20% GO make beautiful color prints on Hahn Photo Rag Pearl and Harman Glossy FB AL (warm and cool tone). No bronzing or GD at all. You do need to wait a few days for the banding to go away  though! This is the setup I use for color and am very happy with it. The banding is not detectable in artificial light of a strength usually found indoors. 

I use refillable carts from this guy ( http://www.inkjetcarts.us/ ) and after trying many others find these are the only ones that work really well. 

For BW, there are a number of workflows for the 1800 on Paul Roark's site, all which are tried and tested. I note though that Paul is no longer recommending the 1800, opting instead for the 1400 which appparently does not show the same tendency to band.

"hp9180profile" <owens@...> wrote:


> ... The 1800 does tend to band with non-OEM inks...
> Banding is just visible in very strong sunlight when 
> first printed but funnily enough it seems to disappear 
> after a while...

That is interesting.  It must be some slow-to-cure or evaporate component.

> I use refillable carts from this guy  http://www.inkjetcarts.us/ 
> and after trying many others find these are the only ones that
> work really well. 

> For BW, there are a number of workflows for the 1800 on 
> Paul Roark's site, all which are tried and tested.

See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/R1800.htm for the "3-MK" workflow.

See also http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-1800.pdf for the Eboni-6 setup.  I stopped recommending this due to the carts, but if the Inkjetcarts.us carts are totally spongeless, this might be a viable workflow.

> I note though that Paul is no longer recommending the 1800, 
> opting instead for the 1400 which appparently does not show 
> the same tendency to band.

It was mostly the cart problem that turned me off on the 1800.  With either of the workflows above, the banding is under control.

(I'm going to order some carts from that outfit for my 220 now.  The 220 uses the same cart style, and the leaky carts have caused me to abandon that otherwise outstanding little printer also.  Note that it is only that cart style that has caused me problems.  MIS's 1400 carts, for example, are fine.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to  
do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.  
Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look  
3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I  
was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were  
done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.

Just thought I would report my results.


Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

I am SO new to all of this. I am challenged to get decent B&W prints from my Epson 2880. Can the Piezotone selenium inks be used in this printer? If so, how?

Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Savoia <mark@stillrivereditions.com>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:23 pm
Subject: [Digital BW] 9900 ABW vs Piezotone inks






I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to 
do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks. 
Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look 
3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I 
was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were 
done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.

Just thought I would report my results.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mark,

Just wondering if you think the 9900 is all that compared to the 9800, both with OEM inks and with the Piezotone? I looked up the differences in the new model but don't know anyone who has one. Not that I'm purchasing one anytime soon, but I'm still curious.

Thanks,
Sarah



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:

>
> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to  
> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.  
> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look  
> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I  
> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were  
> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
> 
> Just thought I would report my results.
> 
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>

Well since I only have the 9900 to compare too...I went from a 9600,  
big difference, much faster.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Apr 6, 2009, at 2:55 PM, Sarah Renkes wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Just wondering if you think the 9900 is all that compared to the  
> 9800, both with OEM inks and with the Piezotone? I looked up the  
> differences in the new model but don't know anyone who has one. Not  
> that I'm purchasing one anytime soon, but I'm still curious.
>
> Thanks,
> Sarah
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia  
> <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to
>> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.
>> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look
>> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I
>> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were
>> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
>>
>> Just thought I would report my results.
>>
>>
>> Mark
>> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Mark,

>I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to  
>do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.  
>Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look  
>3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I  
>was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were  
>done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.

Thanks for the report.  Is there any chance you can do the same comparison on VFA?  The reason I ask is that HPR was one of my top papers when I used Eboni-based ink sets, while VFA was good but didn't stand out.  I kept some on hand only for testing.

When my 2200 died the replacement warranty I had purchased with it delivered to me a new 2400.  After acclimating to the new system I found that the combination of K3 inks and VFA produced far better results than K3/HPR, and even better than Eboni/HPR in some ways.  The depth effect as you mention (among other things), was very rich compared to previous results. 

The result is that my entire paper lineup changed.  I still have some HPR and I'm slowly trying to use it up, but it only works well with a certain few images (and even then it's just acceptable).  My general impression is that K3 and HPR are simply not a good match, for whatever reason.  Getting good results with it always seems like a struggle, where VFA just sings easily in tune.  BTW, another favorite K3 paper for me is Innova's Soft Texture Art (STA).  It's the best non-OBA paper for K3 I've found.  Hawk Mtn's Merlin Natural is also a fine K3 paper, as is Museo Max - please don't get the impression that K3 is only good on one paper.

Bottom line is don't judge the ink by testing on just one paper.  It can make a big difference.  PZ may still beat out K3 on VFA, but you won't know for sure until you test it.  K3 is also superb on the Fiber Gloss type papers.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm

I do not have that paper.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Apr 6, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:

> Hello Mark,
>
>> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to
>> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.
>> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look
>> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I
>> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were
>> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
>
> Thanks for the report.  Is there any chance you can do the same  
> comparison on VFA?  The reason I ask is that HPR was one of my top  
> papers when I used Eboni-based ink sets, while VFA was good but  
> didn't stand out.  I kept some on hand only for testing.
>
> When my 2200 died the replacement warranty I had purchased with it  
> delivered to me a new 2400.  After acclimating to the new system I  
> found that the combination of K3 inks and VFA produced far better  
> results than K3/HPR, and even better than Eboni/HPR in some ways.   
> The depth effect as you mention (among other things), was very rich  
> compared to previous results.
>
> The result is that my entire paper lineup changed.  I still have  
> some HPR and I'm slowly trying to use it up, but it only works well  
> with a certain few images (and even then it's just acceptable).  My  
> general impression is that K3 and HPR are simply not a good match,  
> for whatever reason.  Getting good results with it always seems  
> like a struggle, where VFA just sings easily in tune.  BTW, another  
> favorite K3 paper for me is Innova's Soft Texture Art (STA).  It's  
> the best non-OBA paper for K3 I've found.  Hawk Mtn's Merlin  
> Natural is also a fine K3 paper, as is Museo Max - please don't get  
> the impression that K3 is only good on one paper.
>
> Bottom line is don't judge the ink by testing on just one paper.   
> It can make a big difference.  PZ may still beat out K3 on VFA, but  
> you won't know for sure until you test it.  K3 is also superb on  
> the Fiber Gloss type papers.
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

well could ya get some?
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:

>
> I do not have that paper.
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
> 
> > Hello Mark,
> >
> >> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to
> >> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.
> >> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look
> >> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I
> >> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were
> >> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
> >
> > Thanks for the report.  Is there any chance you can do the same  
> > comparison on VFA?  The reason I ask is that HPR was one of my top  
> > papers when I used Eboni-based ink sets, while VFA was good but  
> > didn't stand out.  I kept some on hand only for testing.
> >
> > When my 2200 died the replacement warranty I had purchased with it  
> > delivered to me a new 2400.  After acclimating to the new system I  
> > found that the combination of K3 inks and VFA produced far better  
> > results than K3/HPR, and even better than Eboni/HPR in some ways.   
> > The depth effect as you mention (among other things), was very rich  
> > compared to previous results.
> >
> > The result is that my entire paper lineup changed.  I still have  
> > some HPR and I'm slowly trying to use it up, but it only works well  
> > with a certain few images (and even then it's just acceptable).  My  
> > general impression is that K3 and HPR are simply not a good match,  
> > for whatever reason.  Getting good results with it always seems  
> > like a struggle, where VFA just sings easily in tune.  BTW, another  
> > favorite K3 paper for me is Innova's Soft Texture Art (STA).  It's  
> > the best non-OBA paper for K3 I've found.  Hawk Mtn's Merlin  
> > Natural is also a fine K3 paper, as is Museo Max - please don't get  
> > the impression that K3 is only good on one paper.
> >
> > Bottom line is don't judge the ink by testing on just one paper.   
> > It can make a big difference.  PZ may still beat out K3 on VFA, but  
> > you won't know for sure until you test it.  K3 is also superb on  
> > the Fiber Gloss type papers.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Clayton
> >
> >
> > Info on black and white digital printing at
> > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > I-Trak 2.1   http://www.cjcom.net/itrak.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> > group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"  
> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL  
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sarah, the tests I looked at comparing ABW output from both a x900 and a x800 were indistinguishable.
I'd love a 9900 for all kinds of reasons, but I don't think potential advances in ABW output would be one of them.
Of course if you already like ABW output... not that there is anything wrong with that...
(whew)
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Renkes" <sagaface@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Just wondering if you think the 9900 is all that compared to the 9800, both with OEM inks and with the Piezotone? I looked up the differences in the new model but don't know anyone who has one. Not that I'm purchasing one anytime soon, but I'm still curious.
> 
> Thanks,
> Sarah
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@> wrote:
> >
> > I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to  
> > do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.  
> > Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look  
> > 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I  
> > was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were  
> > done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
> > 
> > Just thought I would report my results.
> > 
> > 
> > Mark
> > http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> >
>

If somebody wants to toss me a few sheets to run. I am now into  
another project so it might be awhile till I get to it.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Apr 6, 2009, at 4:15 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> well could ya get some?
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia  
> <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> I do not have that paper.
>>
>> Mark
>> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Mark,
>>>
>>>> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally  
>>>> able to
>>>> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.
>>>> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look
>>>> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I
>>>> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests  
>>>> were
>>>> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the report.  Is there any chance you can do the same
>>> comparison on VFA?  The reason I ask is that HPR was one of my top
>>> papers when I used Eboni-based ink sets, while VFA was good but
>>> didn't stand out.  I kept some on hand only for testing.
>>>
>>> When my 2200 died the replacement warranty I had purchased with it
>>> delivered to me a new 2400.  After acclimating to the new system I
>>> found that the combination of K3 inks and VFA produced far better
>>> results than K3/HPR, and even better than Eboni/HPR in some ways.
>>> The depth effect as you mention (among other things), was very rich
>>> compared to previous results.
>>>
>>> The result is that my entire paper lineup changed.  I still have
>>> some HPR and I'm slowly trying to use it up, but it only works well
>>> with a certain few images (and even then it's just acceptable).  My
>>> general impression is that K3 and HPR are simply not a good match,
>>> for whatever reason.  Getting good results with it always seems
>>> like a struggle, where VFA just sings easily in tune.  BTW, another
>>> favorite K3 paper for me is Innova's Soft Texture Art (STA).  It's
>>> the best non-OBA paper for K3 I've found.  Hawk Mtn's Merlin
>>> Natural is also a fine K3 paper, as is Museo Max - please don't get
>>> the impression that K3 is only good on one paper.
>>>
>>> Bottom line is don't judge the ink by testing on just one paper.
>>> It can make a big difference.  PZ may still beat out K3 on VFA, but
>>> you won't know for sure until you test it.  K3 is also superb on
>>> the Fiber Gloss type papers.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Clayton



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark, just joking, badly.
Thanks for the report.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:

>
> If somebody wants to toss me a few sheets to run. I am now into  
> another project so it might be awhile till I get to it.
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 4:15 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
> 
> > well could ya get some?
> > Tyler
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia  
> > <mark@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I do not have that paper.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> >>
> >> On Apr 6, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Mark,
> >>>
> >>>> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally  
> >>>> able to
> >>>> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.
> >>>> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look
> >>>> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I
> >>>> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests  
> >>>> were
> >>>> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the report.  Is there any chance you can do the same
> >>> comparison on VFA?  The reason I ask is that HPR was one of my top
> >>> papers when I used Eboni-based ink sets, while VFA was good but
> >>> didn't stand out.  I kept some on hand only for testing.
> >>>
> >>> When my 2200 died the replacement warranty I had purchased with it
> >>> delivered to me a new 2400.  After acclimating to the new system I
> >>> found that the combination of K3 inks and VFA produced far better
> >>> results than K3/HPR, and even better than Eboni/HPR in some ways.
> >>> The depth effect as you mention (among other things), was very rich
> >>> compared to previous results.
> >>>
> >>> The result is that my entire paper lineup changed.  I still have
> >>> some HPR and I'm slowly trying to use it up, but it only works well
> >>> with a certain few images (and even then it's just acceptable).  My
> >>> general impression is that K3 and HPR are simply not a good match,
> >>> for whatever reason.  Getting good results with it always seems
> >>> like a struggle, where VFA just sings easily in tune.  BTW, another
> >>> favorite K3 paper for me is Innova's Soft Texture Art (STA).  It's
> >>> the best non-OBA paper for K3 I've found.  Hawk Mtn's Merlin
> >>> Natural is also a fine K3 paper, as is Museo Max - please don't get
> >>> the impression that K3 is only good on one paper.
> >>>
> >>> Bottom line is don't judge the ink by testing on just one paper.
> >>> It can make a big difference.  PZ may still beat out K3 on VFA, but
> >>> you won't know for sure until you test it.  K3 is also superb on
> >>> the Fiber Gloss type papers.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Clayton
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sorry, did not get that, it must be Monday.

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com

On Apr 6, 2009, at 4:23 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> Mark, just joking, badly.
> Thanks for the report.
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia  
> <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> If somebody wants to toss me a few sheets to run. I am now into
>> another project so it might be awhile till I get to it.
>>
>> Mark
>> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2009, at 4:15 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>>
>>> well could ya get some?
>>> Tyler
>>>
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>>> <mark@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I do not have that paper.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 6, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Clayton Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Mark,
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally
>>>>>> able to
>>>>>> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.
>>>>>> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They  
>>>>>> look
>>>>>> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the  
>>>>>> 9900 I
>>>>>> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the report.  Is there any chance you can do the same
>>>>> comparison on VFA?  The reason I ask is that HPR was one of my top
>>>>> papers when I used Eboni-based ink sets, while VFA was good but
>>>>> didn't stand out.  I kept some on hand only for testing.
>>>>>
>>>>> When my 2200 died the replacement warranty I had purchased with it
>>>>> delivered to me a new 2400.  After acclimating to the new system I
>>>>> found that the combination of K3 inks and VFA produced far better
>>>>> results than K3/HPR, and even better than Eboni/HPR in some ways.
>>>>> The depth effect as you mention (among other things), was very  
>>>>> rich
>>>>> compared to previous results.
>>>>>
>>>>> The result is that my entire paper lineup changed.  I still have
>>>>> some HPR and I'm slowly trying to use it up, but it only works  
>>>>> well
>>>>> with a certain few images (and even then it's just  
>>>>> acceptable).  My
>>>>> general impression is that K3 and HPR are simply not a good match,
>>>>> for whatever reason.  Getting good results with it always seems
>>>>> like a struggle, where VFA just sings easily in tune.  BTW,  
>>>>> another
>>>>> favorite K3 paper for me is Innova's Soft Texture Art (STA).  It's
>>>>> the best non-OBA paper for K3 I've found.  Hawk Mtn's Merlin
>>>>> Natural is also a fine K3 paper, as is Museo Max - please don't  
>>>>> get
>>>>> the impression that K3 is only good on one paper.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bottom line is don't judge the ink by testing on just one paper.
>>>>> It can make a big difference.  PZ may still beat out K3 on VFA,  
>>>>> but
>>>>> you won't know for sure until you test it.  K3 is also superb on
>>>>> the Fiber Gloss type papers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Clayton
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

after the print head adjustment everything was ok yesterday. but not today... i changed to epson ink. almost no banding, when using QTR it seems to be better with 1400x1400super setting (no banding with only black, one ink) than the 2800!! (jettec ink is beyond question. they just have been delivered with the printer. lots of clogging!!)

> I have not used Cone inks in an 1800 but do use MIS (Image >Specialists) inks in one. Banding is just visible in very strong >sunlight when first printed but funnily enough it seems to disappear >after a while. HP Glossy paper showed the worst banding but even <this disappeared after a few weeks. (!)

after printing i won't know whether the banding will disappear or not...

> I use refillable carts from this guy ( http://www.inkjetcarts.us/ ) >and after trying many others find these are the only ones that work >really well. 

thanks for this and Pauls' advice! 

christoph

Mark,

I downloaded the public Beta of the WIR i*Metric. We've only tested 60 Megalux so far which is equivalent to only 30 Wilhelm Years (450 Lux 12 hours/day) for a PiezoTone CarbonSepia  vs  Epson ABW matching CarbonSepia with the AaI&A 30 patch target on Epson Velvet Fine Art.

At 60 MegaLux:
PiezoTone CarbonSepia average deltaE is 1.36 with worst 10% at 1.92
Epson ABW (mathching CS) average deltaE is 3.37 with worst 10% at 5.93
(the worst 50% of ABW is at 4.96)

So it looks like it's going to be a longevity massacre.

WIR can only test density fade with his current suite of tests but can not detect changes in color balance, which is why the i*Metric was invented. Why he does not implement it is a mystery. I would suggest his 450 year estimates for ABW might be at least 400 years off (as far as photographers eyes are concerned). DeltaE >5 is  easily visible color shift. The mid to quarter tones (L46 - L80) of the ABW are what took the bad hit. We will continue to test until PiezoTone hits deltaE 5, but will give interim for them both. 

If I were you I would not guarantee more than 30 years to your customers before visible color shift on any ABW prints that are Sepia (at least on Epson Velvet Fine Art Paper). The density loss of ABW is minimal, but it won't stay Sepia. I would have expected better with all the published data, although I can not say I am disappointed.  ;)  Nor am I that surprised after reading Wilhelm's account of being "unable to analyze changes in color balance" when testing Epson Ultrachrome K3 inks with the current WIR V3.0 test suite.

It is possible that other Piezography ink matching ABW presets will do better. I suppose it is also possible they will do worse. We are going to match all the possible PiezoTone and K7 ink sets with ABW and run them head to head. I think it is highly unlikely that any monochrome print made by mixing in warming or cooling inks can stand up to a truly monochrome pigment print. It's not rocket science. Carbon is very strong and can be altered towards warm and cool on its own as long as a dedicated ink set is employed. Color pigment is not as strong as carbon. The color simply burns off at a much greater rate resulting in the shift. Because the % of color to carbon is small, not much fade is recorded by densitometry (which is what WIR uses, rather than spectrophotometry which would measure the % of retained color.) Endlessly interesting when you begin to analyze this stuff with actual data.

Jon Cone
InkjetMall.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:

>
> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to  
> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.  
> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look  
> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I  
> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were  
> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
> 
> Just thought I would report my results.
> 
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
>

Piezogaphy Selenium K7 is available:

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/it.A/id.3867/.f


PiezoTones are traditional quad inks (4 shades).
Piezography K7 are seven shades of ink.. and more appropriate to the seven and eight ink slot printers (which we provide an "eight" bottle of storage fluid to keep the head juicy.)

Jon Cone
InkjetMall.com




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jffkoen@... wrote:

>
> I am SO new to all of this. I am challenged to get decent B&W prints from my Epson 2880. Can the Piezotone selenium inks be used in this printer? If so, how?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Savoia <mark@...>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 12:23 pm
> Subject: [Digital BW] 9900 ABW vs Piezotone inks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to 
> do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks. 
> Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look 
> 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I 
> was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were 
> done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
> 
> Just thought I would report my results.
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Tyler, I don't use ABW, so that wouldn't be a consideration for me either (hear ya on the "whew", though; I know many love ABW.). 

Actually, I'm not considering it at all...just dreaming. 
Sarah




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:

>
> Sarah, the tests I looked at comparing ABW output from both a x900 and a x800 were indistinguishable.
> I'd love a 9900 for all kinds of reasons, but I don't think potential advances in ABW output would be one of them.
> Of course if you already like ABW output... not that there is anything wrong with that...
> (whew)
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Renkes" <sagaface@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> > 
> > Just wondering if you think the 9900 is all that compared to the 9800, both with OEM inks and with the Piezotone? I looked up the differences in the new model but don't know anyone who has one. Not that I'm purchasing one anytime soon, but I'm still curious.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Sarah
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia <mark@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have had my Epson 9900 for a few weeks now and was finally able to  
> > > do some tests to compare its ABW mode vs Piezotone selenium inks.  
> > > Bottom line, the Piezotones have much more depth to them. They look  
> > > 3D and the 9900 black and white prints do not. Color on the 9900 I  
> > > was able to tweak to match the Pieozone fairly close. All tests were  
> > > done on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.
> > > 
> > > Just thought I would report my results.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Mark
> > > http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> > >
> >
>

Banding can be reduced using the Epson service adjustment utility.  It takes a while to go through all the screens but it's helpful.  Email me if you need it.

I gave up on MIS color inks for the R1800 when a replacement cyan would never flow right.  The MIS photo black was never right either- it had density reversals with PhotoRPM and a very poor Dmax (1.9 or so) with Best Photo on glossy papers.

Personally I'd get a K3 Epson and refill it with Epson 220ML carts.

Roger


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "christoph fischer" <tarqeq@...> wrote:

>
> i just got a (rather used?) r1800. banding is not only at the borders, but anywhere. (although perfect nozzle test). moreover there are slight blotches in the middle/light greys or gradients,  using jettec inks (because i got it like this) and qtr. 
> 
> i'd like to go for mis- or cone-inks and a CIS. but i fear, the print head will not last long any more.
> 
> who knows about? 
> would you dare buying a CIS for this printer, or rather for my epson 2100 which i bought as new 6 years ago?
> 
> 
> christoph
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark" <pr_roark@...> wrote:
> 
 
> 
> See also http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-1800.pdf for the >Eboni-6 setup.  I stopped recommending this due to the carts, but if >the Inkjetcarts.us carts are totally spongeless, this might be a >viable workflow.
> 
> It was mostly the cart problem that turned me off on the 1800.  With either of the workflows above, the banding is under control.
> 
> (I'm going to order some carts from that outfit for my 220 now.  The 220 uses the same cart style, and the leaky carts have caused me to abandon that otherwise outstanding little printer also.  Note that it is only that cart style that has caused me problems.  MIS's 1400 carts, for example, are fine.)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
Yes, the 1800 ones are spongeless. They use a small silicon valve and a series of chambers, passages and baffles to control flow and equalise air pressure. They look not disimilar to others I have tried. However one of the major differentiators I found with Inkjetcarts is that the have been in the business for a long time and have accummulated a useful body of knowledge regarding their product. They share this knowledge with their customers in the form of a CD which they include with your order. Included are instructions on how to properly fill and prime cartridges to ensure that they work properly, do not leak and air locks are eliminated. 

The only thing I do not like is that they use the newer types of chips which need to be reset manually, necessitating that the cartridge be lifted and reinserted to reset the chip. This of course causes the printer to run a charging cycle and risks the introduction of air. Apparently the older auto reset ones are no longer available since Epson made changes to their printers' firmware rendering these auto reset chips inoperable. If you have some of the older auto reset ones I suggest you retrieve them and put them on the inkjetcarts product.

Despite this issue, it is so nice to not have to worry about whether the cartridges are going to spontaneously leak out all their contents overnight. 

I have had them for 3 or so weeks now so hopefully this is long enough for any issues to have shown up. Hopefully you will have the same positive experience!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger" <rsmith02@...> wrote:
>
> Banding can be reduced using the Epson service adjustment utility.  It takes a while to go through all the screens but it's helpful.  Email me if you need it.
>
I have not tried that. Must give it a go. Thanks.

 
> I gave up on MIS color inks for the R1800 when a replacement cyan would never flow right.  The MIS photo black was never right either- it had density reversals with PhotoRPM and a very poor Dmax (1.9 or so) with Best Photo on glossy papers.
> 
That is interesting. Personally I have not had that issue with the Cyan and I get a Dmax of 2.8 on Hahn PRP and 2.7 on Harmam FB Glossy using a GO second pass and measured after 48 hours using the K4 PK. (It is a lot higher when first printed).

"hp9180profile" <owens@...> wrote:
>
> Inkjetcarts.us carts are totally spongeless, ...

> > 
> > It was mostly the cart problem that turned me off on the 1800.  With either of the workflows above, the banding is under control.
> > 
...

> Yes, the 1800 ones are spongeless...
> ... Inkjetcarts ...  CD which they include with your order.
> Included are instructions on how to properly fill and 
> prime cartridges ...

> they use the newer types of chips which need to be reset
>  manually,

I actually prefer that.  The chip resetters are cheap.  With the auto-reset chips I never know how full a cart is.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Roger" <rsmith02@...> wrote:
>
> Banding can be reduced using the Epson service adjustment utility.  does it run on MacOs? so i'd like to get it. thanks.

yet, the epson printer utility was helping against banding (quite often).

> ...
> Personally I'd get a K3 Epson and refill it with Epson 220ML carts.

Should be possible to refill my r1800 this way...
i guess, even better with HP-ink, as Paul Roark wrote in some essays.
(i've got 2 printers, still working. no need to buy a new one)

Epson K3 Mk is still brownish, isn't it?

christoph

"christoph fischer" <tarqeq@...> wrote:


> ...
> Epson K3 Mk is still brownish, isn't it?
 
Yes, UC MK is quite warm.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com