EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Sometimes, if I call up an EXS instrument while a medium-dense song is 
playing, I get a total computer hang/freeze and have to hard reboot. Has 
anyone else had this experience?

I'm on a G4 867 (single), Logic 5.5, OS 9.2.2.

Thanks!

Ned



http://www.nedfx.com

       Ned Bouhalassa

n e d @ n e d f x . c o m

Hi all,
I'm curious...does anyone have any opinions about guitar libaries.  I'm 
looking for a good one. I know...not many people would say that they're 
looking for a bad one...but I really am looking for realism here.   
Thanks in advance.

Julie Larson
www.julielarson.net

I get freezes at a minimum of once per session in 9.2.2. I've grown to hate
that operating system. I'm livid with Apple for preventing me from
installing an earlier OS. $%^&*(!!! Anyway, I can't wait for OSX 6.0 and
WHERE ARE THOSE AU PLUGS EVERYONE SAYS THEY ARE DEVELOPING? In the meantime,
I can hardly write music at the moment. In fact, without provocation, my
computer no longer wants to boot up in 9. It crashes every time before the
second or third extension icon pops up. I'm certain it's some "classic"
extension. I can boot with extensions off, but what good is that to a
musician, I ask you? Burn, OS9, burn! -Jer

> Sometimes, if I call up an EXS instrument while a medium-dense song is
> playing, I get a total computer hang/freeze and have to hard reboot. Has
> anyone else had this experience?
> 
> I'm on a G4 867 (single), Logic 5.5, OS 9.2.2.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ned
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nedfx.com
> 
>      Ned Bouhalassa
> 
> n e d @ n e d f x . c o m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
>  exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> For a list of places to get free samples please see:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

I was thinking of creating and marketing my own guitar library. anyone have
any suggestions as to what should be in a good guitar library? as a
guitarist, I have no idea what non-gtrists would want in their gtr library.
anyone willing to help me market and distribute such a product? EP??

thanks,
Teddy "guitar" But

As a non-guitarist, it would be anything a guitarist would likely play!
Isn't that the point? What are your favorite settings? When you sit down and
play a guitar track for a client, what are your usual inclinations?

> any suggestions as to what should be in a good guitar library? as a
> guitarist, I have no idea what non-gtrists would want in their gtr library.

>  > Did you try Virtual Guitarist ?

From: Jer Olsen <HELP@...>

>Ugh, that barely qualifies as a library to me since it doesn't even span
>more than a single octave. -Jer

It's not a guitar library and isn't sold as one. But I just don't 
understand why everyone disses it so much. It is what it is: a 
limited but useful guitar part generator.

I don't think its design is conducive to great art, but then you 
could say that of most products on the market.
-- 

Nick Batzdorf
818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned '56 Strat, which seems to be a very
comprehensive electric and next on my 'buy' list. Hans Zimmer  1 and 2 are
good too.  Yellow Tools has Pure Acoustic, good 12 string strums etc.

Long ago I came up with a DX7 patch that gives good Rickenbacker electric 12
String. Some day I will sample and post it.

Bob
-- 

"See, we love ‹ we love freedom. That's what they didn't understand. They
hate things; we love things. They act out of hatred; we don't seek revenge,
we seek justice out of love." ‹George W. Bush, Oklahoma City, Aug. 29, 2002
Brings tears to the eyes...

Now, will you folks stop talking about guitar libraries?
I am constantly shuddering!

A soon to be unemployed,
Sascha

>> any suggestions as to what should be in a good guitar library? as a
>> guitarist, I have no idea what non-gtrists would want in their gtr library.

> As a non-guitarist, it would be anything a guitarist would likely play!

I would likely play, or any guitarist? Are people looking for individuality
or anonymity?

> Isn't that the point?

I don't know what the point is, I'm a guitarist and only use samples myself.

> What are your favorite settings?

uh. I don't have any. it's all song based. I do what's right for the song.
That's why this would be hard to figure out for me and why I'm asking you
guys.

> When you sit down and
> play a guitar track for a client, what are your usual inclinations?
> 
hmmmm... interesting question. I hadn't thought of that.

what you usually would want someone to do on guitar if you hired them. I
suppose, same as me, it would be based on what the song was. So, there's no
"standard gtr" sound.

I'm still open to hearing what you people are missing from other gtr
libraries or VG.

teddybut

Pure Guitars & Hanz Zimmer are the best Sample libs for Guitars in my
opinion.
But I haven't tested the latest advertised here

Nikko
http://www.gigfiles.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "teddybut" <teddybut@...>
To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:22 PM
Subject: [exs] Re: guitar libraries


> >> any suggestions as to what should be in a good guitar library? as a
> >> guitarist, I have no idea what non-gtrists would want in their gtr
library.
>
> > As a non-guitarist, it would be anything a guitarist would likely play!
>
> I would likely play, or any guitarist? Are people looking for
individuality
> or anonymity?
>
> > Isn't that the point?
>
> I don't know what the point is, I'm a guitarist and only use samples
myself.
>
> > What are your favorite settings?
>
> uh. I don't have any. it's all song based. I do what's right for the song.
> That's why this would be hard to figure out for me and why I'm asking you
> guys.
>
> > When you sit down and
> > play a guitar track for a client, what are your usual inclinations?
> >
> hmmmm... interesting question. I hadn't thought of that.
>
> what you usually would want someone to do on guitar if you hired them. I
> suppose, same as me, it would be based on what the song was. So, there's
no

> "standard gtr" sound.
>
> I'm still open to hearing what you people are missing from other gtr
> libraries or VG.
>
> teddybut
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
>    exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> For a list of places to get free samples please see:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you, bro, we need an arsenal of
comprehensive kits. You'll just have to pick your target genre first.

>>> any suggestions as to what should be in a good guitar library? as a
>>> guitarist, I have no idea what non-gtrists would want in their gtr library.
> 
>> As a non-guitarist, it would be anything a guitarist would likely play!
> 
> I would likely play, or any guitarist? Are people looking for individuality
> or anonymity?
> 
>> Isn't that the point?
> 
> I don't know what the point is, I'm a guitarist and only use samples myself.
> 
>> What are your favorite settings?
> 
> uh. I don't have any. it's all song based. I do what's right for the song.
> That's why this would be hard to figure out for me and why I'm asking you
> guys.
> 
>> When you sit down and
>> play a guitar track for a client, what are your usual inclinations?
>> 
> hmmmm... interesting question. I hadn't thought of that.
> 
> what you usually would want someone to do on guitar if you hired them. I
> suppose, same as me, it would be based on what the song was. So, there's no
> "standard gtr" sound.
> 
> I'm still open to hearing what you people are missing from other gtr
> libraries or VG.
> 
> teddybut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
>  exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> For a list of places to get free samples please see:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
>

My point is it could have been far better with not much more effort,
certainly not any more expertise. What they are charging is a complete
rip-off unless you've got money to spare. For me personally, the one-octave
crap is unforgivable. If it works for you, great! I'm happy for you
(seriously), but I think for anybody in search of a "virtual guitar" the
instrument is completely laughable. I'm not saying the existing sounds suck,
although their generic quality leaves passion to the wayside IMO. What I am
saying is that I still have to hire a session player and am out hundreds of
dollars anyway (not really... I sold it). Alas, I've beaten this dead horse
to a pulp and I digress heavily. I just don't understand why anyone would be
impressed with this, dare I say, instrument. Let me say this in closing. If
it were at least 2-3 octaves of samples, I would have kept it. 11 keys is a
joke if you ask me. It's like asking to play Mozart on a xylophone. Sure it
sounds nice... to a point. -Jer

> It's not a guitar library and isn't sold as one. But I just don't
> understand why everyone disses it so much. It is what it is: a
> limited but useful guitar part generator.
> 
> I don't think its design is conducive to great art, but then you
> could say that of most products on the market.

Guitar is one of the hardest instrument to sample. Keyboards are mechanic. But guitars are played with hands.
When you play a note, you have a large choice of different way to play the same note, depending on the string you use, the way you place your finger...

There is a funy things here http://www.creamware.de/en/Products/Software/CreamWare/Six-String/examples.asp
It claims to be a virtual simulation of a real guitar. Listening the demo is a real experience :)
This one is hum... interesting: six-string guitar demo 

Here is what they say : 
"When working with samples to authentically simulate the sound of a stringed instrument you'll soon run up against the limits of sampling technology. The sound of an oscillating string is just too detailed and dynamic to emulate with a static sample.For this reason Six-String employs a newly developed physical modeling technique. The fundamental Six-String sound production technology was developed by Dr. Rudolf Rabenstein and Dr. Lutz Trautmann at the University of Erlangen-Nuremberg. Their wholly new mathematical approach for the first time models a "genuine" string, with all its physical characteristics, in real time. Multiple factors - string diameter and tension, rigidity and excitation type etc. - are editable and have exactly the same influence over the sound as in the real world."

Guitarists, your comments are welcome! Is your time over? Is Sampling time over as they say?

Nikko

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jer Olsen" <HELP@...>
To: "EXS Users" <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [exs] Re: guitar libraries


> My point is it could have been far better with not much more effort,
> certainly not any more expertise. What they are charging is a complete
> rip-off unless you've got money to spare. For me personally, the one-octave
> crap is unforgivable. If it works for you, great! I'm happy for you
> (seriously), but I think for anybody in search of a "virtual guitar" the
> instrument is completely laughable. I'm not saying the existing sounds suck,
> although their generic quality leaves passion to the wayside IMO. What I am
> saying is that I still have to hire a session player and am out hundreds of
> dollars anyway (not really... I sold it). Alas, I've beaten this dead horse
> to a pulp and I digress heavily. I just don't understand why anyone would be
> impressed with this, dare I say, instrument. Let me say this in closing. If
> it were at least 2-3 octaves of samples, I would have kept it. 11 keys is a
> joke if you ask me. It's like asking to play Mozart on a xylophone. Sure it
> sounds nice... to a point. -Jer
> 
> > It's not a guitar library and isn't sold as one. But I just don't
> > understand why everyone disses it so much. It is what it is: a
> > limited but useful guitar part generator.
> > 
> > I don't think its design is conducive to great art, but then you
> > could say that of most products on the market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
>    exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> For a list of places to get free samples please see:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nicolas@... wrote:
> There is a funy things here
http://www.creamware.de/en/Products/Software/CreamWare/Six-String/examples.a
sp
> It claims to be a virtual simulation of a real guitar. Listening the demo
is a real experience :)
> This one is hum... interesting: six-string guitar demo

LOL! Thanks Nikko for posting this!
Now, these Creamware dudes are doing just about anything to spoil what's
left of their allready not so shiny reputation, don't they?
Someone please tell me it's April 1st - this just can't be meant serious.
The first example is worse than everything I ever tried to get out of my
rusty SoundCanvas (now serving as a doorstop).

> Guitarists, your comments are welcome! Is your time over? Is Sampling time
over as they say?

Oh yes, my time will be over soon if they continue posting things like
that - I might die from laughing.

Cheers,
Sascha

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "Sascha Franck" 
<S.Franck@g...> wrote:
> Nicolas@c... wrote:

> > Guitarists, your comments are welcome! Is your time over? Is 
Sampling time over as they say?

My suggetsion is to buy a guitar and learn how to play it. If you 
are a "musician" you should be able to learn enough guitar to get 
by. What you learn on the guitar will certainly reflect your 
sensibilities and thus serve as the ideal method for achieving 
what you want. Even if you can't play that well, you can chop up 
parts using Recycle, PhatMatik or Logic and get the perfect take 
every time. I'm a guitarist but my bass parts, although they imply 
the groove I want, are never tight enough. So, I import them into 
recycle chop them up and voila.

-Matt

>> Isn't that the point?
> 
> I don't know what the point is, I'm a guitarist and only use samples myself.

that should have read:
I don't know what the point is, I'm a guitarist and only use samples OF
myself... I play live too and do not exclusively use samples of my gtr.

teddybut

I don't get this reasoning at all

why should I start learning the oboe? because I want to use it in a piece?
if I want to use a good sample I will - and try and use it creatively - 

thats kind of the point of the sampler - to FACILITATE creativity - so that
people use this stuff as they see fit - just listen to the end result  - if
it does it for you cool - if it doesn't, listen to something else. 

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: teddybut [mailto:teddybut@...]
Sent: 10 February 2003 10:10
To: exs-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [exs] Re: guitar libraries



> My suggetsion is to buy a guitar and learn how to play it. If you
> are a "musician" you should be able to learn enough guitar to get
> by. What you learn on the guitar will certainly reflect your
> sensibilities and thus serve as the ideal method for achieving
> what you want. Even if you can't play that well, you can chop up
> parts using Recycle, PhatMatik or Logic and get the perfect take
> every time. I'm a guitarist but my bass parts, although they imply
> the groove I want, are never tight enough. So, I import them into
> recycle chop them up and voila.
> 
> -Matt

great suggestion, but some people just don't have the time to try that.

that's where my future gtr library comes in.

teddybut





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> Dr. Rudolf Rabenstein and Dr. Lutz Trautmann at
> the University of Erlangen-Nuremberg. Their wholly new mathematical approach
> for the first time models a "genuine" string,
> Nikko

ya, those guys sound like real rock and rollers. I bet they did that math
with style. And a genuine string... nice.

sounds pretty sterile to me, but I'm sure it will work for some.

teddybut

> My suggetsion is to buy a guitar and learn how to play it. If you
> are a "musician" you should be able to learn enough guitar to get
> by. What you learn on the guitar will certainly reflect your
> sensibilities and thus serve as the ideal method for achieving
> what you want. Even if you can't play that well, you can chop up
> parts using Recycle, PhatMatik or Logic and get the perfect take
> every time. I'm a guitarist but my bass parts, although they imply
> the groove I want, are never tight enough. So, I import them into
> recycle chop them up and voila.
> 
> -Matt

great suggestion, but some people just don't have the time to try that.

that's where my future gtr library comes in.

teddybut

"Nicolas@..." wrote:
> 
> Guitar is one of the hardest instrument to sample. Keyboards are mechanic. But guitars are played with hands.
> When you play a note, you have a large choice of different way to play the same note, depending on the string you use, the way you place your finger...
>
[snip] 
>
> "When working with samples to authentically simulate the sound of a stringed instrument you'll soon run up against the limits of sampling technology. [snip] For this reason Six-String employs a newly developed physical modeling technique. 

Interesting! My first thought when this discussion started was about
physical modeling.

The Korg Z1 uses physical modeling and has a guitar model (I think), but
if the MOSS board in my Korg Karma (which supposedly uses the same
technology) is any indication, they've got a long way to go.

Some of the sounds in my (monophonic) Yamaha VL70m seem quite reasonable
- but I'd love to hear 'em polyphonically!

Downloading the Creamware demos as we speak...


Cheers,   Bill Canty

teddybut wrote:
> 
> I was thinking of creating and marketing my own guitar library. anyone have
> any suggestions as to what should be in a good guitar library?

I haven't sussed out any of the available guitar sample libraries (so
someone has probably already done this), but there's something I've
always found to be *grossly* lacking in the guitar samples in ROMplers.
They'll have, for example, a "clean guitar" and a "muted guitar", but
these 2 sounds are so completely different that they can't be used
together to even attempt to emulate a guitarist.

So, if I were shopping for a great collection of guitar samples I'd be
hoping to find a small number (at least) of extensive sets, each
containing many ways of playing the same guitar with the same recording
setup (mike, mike position, pre-amp, EQ, etc. etc.), the same amp, the
same player, the same everything. I'd want, for example, soft plectrum,
hard plectrum and finger-plucked versions of a few different levels of
muting (ranging from none to "it's so muted I can hardly tell what pitch
it is"), long sustained notes (if the level of muting allowed for
sustain) and some shorter ones, note releases, a few different velocity
levels, and for good measure some hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides, etc.

I'd prefer just one set like that to 2000 incomplete and incompatible
sets. Oh, and with keyswitching for our favourite sampler'd be nice too!

If you wanted to be even more thorough you could include a set of MIDI
files recorded from a guitar MIDI-controller, including as many
different strumming and picking styles as possible, and slides,
hammer-ons, etc.

Oh, and I'd like it by next week, please. OK? ;-)


Cheers,   Bill Canty

"Nicolas@..." wrote:
> 
> There is a funy things here http://www.creamware.de/en/Products/Software/CreamWare/Six-String/examples.asp
> It claims to be a virtual simulation of a real guitar. Listening the demo is a real experience :)
> This one is hum... interesting: six-string guitar demo

Demos downloaded and sussed...

There's some promise in some of the actual sounds (I like the bass the
best...) but the sequencing is REALLY bad!

"mandcmiller " wrote:
> 
> My suggetsion is to buy a guitar and learn how to play it. If you
> are a "musician" you should be able to learn enough guitar to get
> by.

A modification of that suggestion would be to know enough guitar to have
a better idea of sequencing guitar parts. Knowing the tuning and the
more common chords, having some idea of how a guitar is actually played,
even if you can't do it very well, would help a lot.

o
> 
> There is a funy things here
> http://www.creamware.de/en/Products/Software/CreamWare/Six-String/examples.asp
> It claims to be a virtual simulation of a real guitar. Listening the demo is a
> real experience :)
> This one is hum... interesting: six-string guitar demo
>
> 
> Guitarists, your comments are welcome! Is your time over? Is Sampling time
> over as they say?

I just listened to the MP3s.  The only thing that sounds real to me is the
2nd of the electric bass examples.  I think physical modeling of stringed
instruments is going to become very popular - DSP seems to have caught up to
it's requirements at this point - but this one doesn't blow me away.  BTW,
Isn't the EVD6 a string-instrument model in similar fashion (though for
hammer-struck strings)?

Jonathan Perl
Sonic Arts Center @ The City College Of New York
(212) 650-6837
http://sonic.arts.ccny.cuny.edu

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe Moretti <morettij@b...> wrote:

> why should I start learning the oboe? because I want to use it in a piece?
> if I want to use a good sample I will - and try and use it creatively - 
> 
There is quite a difference between guitar and oboe.

First of all, unless you're doing orchestral based music, how often do you 
need an oboe? Guitar is the ubiquitous pop music instrument and it's sonic 
distinctiveness and the way it's played often defines the character of a song. 
And when you need an oboe, how many sonic variations do you generally 
need? A guitar will sound completely different depending on how it is being 
used. Are you looking for a Strat through a Fender Twin or a Les Paul through 
a Dual Rectifier? Or maybe you need a direct sound that is being 
overcompressed with a bit of chorus. Add on top of that the style of playing - 
open chords, bar chords at various neck positions, inversions, etc... 

-Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
>    exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> For a list of places to get free samples please see:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =======================================================
> Footnote
> 
> This footnote confirms that this email message has been 
> swept by MAILsweeper for content and by Sophos for the 
> presence of computer viruses. 
> 
> Please note that Bridgwater College reserves the right to 
> monitor all incoming and outgoing email communications.
> 
> IT Manager, Computing Services, Bridgwater College
> Bath Rd, BRIDGWATER TA6 4PZ
> =======================================================
> 
> 
> ==========================================================
==========
> 
> Disclaimer
> 
> This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the 
> individual(s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented 
> are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of 
> Bridgwater College.  If you are not the intended recipient, be 
> advised that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or 
> copying of this email is strictly prohibited.  If you have received 
> this email in error please delete it together with any attachment(s) 
> and contact the sender.
> 
> Internet communications are not secure and therefore Bridgwater 
> College does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of 
> this message.
> 
> This email message has been scanned by MAILsweeper & Sophos for the 
> presence of computer viruses.
> 
> ==========================================================
==========

but...but...but..
I have a guitar.... I don't play it very well...I don't play anything 
very well....  I'm a composer...not a performer.  I don't write pop 
music...I write orchestral music.  I love oboes with their 
expressiveness and their nuance.  Did you know that quite apart from 
the variations from instrument to instrument, the method used in 
shaping the reed of an oboe can have an amazing effect on the 
tone...Players often have a box of reeds they use to create different 
tones and effects.  But I have an oboe library.  I need a guitar 
library.

I'm down to 2....Yellow tools pure guitars...$134  and Hans Zimmer 
guitars vol.2..$279.  Does anyone know if the extra $145 dollars is 
money well spent?  The Zimmer Demo sounds great and it got a great 
review from SOS...but that was 4 years ago...it's also in Akai format 
and that can be a pain...everything is all split up cause of ram 
issues.  Yellow tools is a new library...even comes in EXS format...Is 
anyone using these libraries?

Thanks
Julie




On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 09:49 AM, mandcmiller 
<mandcmiller@...> wrote:

> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe Moretti <morettij@b...> wrote:
>
> > why should I start learning the oboe? because I want to use it in a 
> piece?
> > if I want to use a good sample I will - and try and use it 
> creatively -
> >
> There is quite a difference between guitar and oboe.
>
> First of all, unless you're doing orchestral based music, how often do 
> you
> need an oboe? Guitar is the ubiquitous pop music instrument and it's 
> sonic
> distinctiveness and the way it's played often defines the character of 
> a song.
> And when you need an oboe, how many sonic variations do you generally
> need? A guitar will sound completely different depending on how it is 
> being
> used. Are you looking for a Strat through a Fender Twin or a Les Paul 
> through
> a Dual Rectifier? Or maybe you need a direct sound that is being
> overcompressed with a bit of chorus. Add on top of that the style of 
> playing -
> open chords, bar chords at various neck positions, inversions, etc...
>
> -Matt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
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> >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Larson wrote:
> I'm down to 2....Yellow tools pure guitars...$134  and Hans Zimmer
> guitars vol.2..$279.  Does anyone know if the extra $145 dollars is
> money well spent?

I have only heard very nice things about the YT guitars, including a really
convincing classical acoustic demo MP3. And as they come in EXS format I'd
think they are your better bet for now.

Cheers,
Sascha

I use Yellow. It is a little bit better than Hanz Zimmer, but most sounds
are doing the same thing (and sounds quite the same).
In another way, there are a lot of instruments in the Zimmer vol 2 that you
can't find elsewhere.

Zimmer Vol2 is still a reference...

Nikko
http://www.gigfiles.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Larson" <julielarson@...>
To: <exs-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [exs] Re: guitar libraries


but...but...but..
I have a guitar.... I don't play it very well...I don't play anything
very well....  I'm a composer...not a performer.  I don't write pop
music...I write orchestral music.  I love oboes with their
expressiveness and their nuance.  Did you know that quite apart from
the variations from instrument to instrument, the method used in
shaping the reed of an oboe can have an amazing effect on the
tone...Players often have a box of reeds they use to create different
tones and effects.  But I have an oboe library.  I need a guitar
library.

I'm down to 2....Yellow tools pure guitars...$134  and Hans Zimmer
guitars vol.2..$279.  Does anyone know if the extra $145 dollars is
money well spent?  The Zimmer Demo sounds great and it got a great
review from SOS...but that was 4 years ago...it's also in Akai format
and that can be a pain...everything is all split up cause of ram
issues.  Yellow tools is a new library...even comes in EXS format...Is
anyone using these libraries?

Thanks
Julie




On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 09:49 AM, mandcmiller
<mandcmiller@...> wrote:

> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe Moretti <morettij@b...> wrote:
>
> > why should I start learning the oboe? because I want to use it in a
> piece?
> > if I want to use a good sample I will - and try and use it
> creatively -
> >
> There is quite a difference between guitar and oboe.
>
> First of all, unless you're doing orchestral based music, how often do
> you
> need an oboe? Guitar is the ubiquitous pop music instrument and it's
> sonic
> distinctiveness and the way it's played often defines the character of
> a song.
> And when you need an oboe, how many sonic variations do you generally
> need? A guitar will sound completely different depending on how it is
> being
> used. Are you looking for a Strat through a Fender Twin or a Les Paul
> through
> a Dual Rectifier? Or maybe you need a direct sound that is being
> overcompressed with a bit of chorus. Add on top of that the style of
> playing -
> open chords, bar chords at various neck positions, inversions, etc...
>
> -Matt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
> > exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> > For a list of places to get free samples please see:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > Footnote
> >
> > This footnote confirms that this email message has been
> > swept by MAILsweeper for content and by Sophos for the
> > presence of computer viruses.
> >
> > Please note that Bridgwater College reserves the right to
> > monitor all incoming and outgoing email communications.
> >
> > IT Manager, Computing Services, Bridgwater College
> > Bath Rd, BRIDGWATER TA6 4PZ
> > =======================================================
> >
> >
> > ==========================================================
> ==========
> >
> > Disclaimer
> >
> > This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the
> > individual(s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions
> presented
> > are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of
> > Bridgwater College. If you are not the intended recipient, be
> > advised that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or
> > copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> > this email in error please delete it together with any attachment(s)
> > and contact the sender.
> >
> > Internet communications are not secure and therefore Bridgwater
> > College does not accept legal responsibility for the contents of
> > this message.
> >
> > This email message has been scanned by MAILsweeper & Sophos for the
> > presence of computer viruses.
> >
> > ==========================================================
> ==========
>
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>
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>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
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I'm on a G4 500mhz OS 9.2.2 Logic 5.5 and never get these problems,

CB

Jer Olsen wrote:

> I get freezes at a minimum of once per session in 9.2.2. I've grown to hate
> that operating system. I'm livid with Apple for preventing me from
> installing an earlier OS. $%^&*(!!! Anyway, I can't wait for OSX 6.0

> my
> computer no longer wants to boot up in 9. It crashes every time before the
> second or third extension icon pops up. I'm certain it's some "classic"
> extension. I can boot with extensions off, but what good is that to a
> musician, I ask you? Burn, OS9, burn! -Jer
>
> > Sometimes, if I call up an EXS instrument while a medium-dense song is
> > playing, I get a total computer hang/freeze and have to hard reboot. Has
> > anyone else had this experience?
> >
> > I'm on a G4 867 (single), Logic 5.5, OS 9.2.2.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Ned
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.nedfx.com
> >
> >      Ned Bouhalassa
> >
> > n e d @ n e d f x . c o m









mmmmm

Joe Moretti <morettij@b...> wrote:

>  > why should I start learning the oboe? because I want to use it in a piece?
>  > if I want to use a good sample I will - and try and use it creatively -

From: "mandcmiller <mandcmiller@...>" <mandcmiller@...>

>There is quite a difference between guitar and oboe.

And between the players: the way to get an oboe player to stop 
playing is to take away his music, while the way to get a guitarist 
to stop playing is to put music in front of him...

>First of all, unless you're doing orchestral based music, how often do you
>need an oboe? Guitar is the ubiquitous pop music instrument

Depending on what we're working on, some of us "do orchestral based 
music" at least as much as rhythm section music, or we use both 
together! Oboe is a ubiquitous orchestral instrument, and I happen to 
need it fairly often (and I use either VL1 or an old Prophet 2000 
sample from 1987 or so!).
-- 

Nick Batzdorf
818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

Thanks Sascha,
I appreciate the input.  Pure Guitars does come in EXS format...but it 
seems to have been released prior to the EXSs implementation of key 
switching and xfades.  The Giga version has these capabilities.  So it 
makes me wonder if I'm doing better to buy the Giga version and 
translate to EXS... than I would be doing to buy an "obsolete" EXS  
version.

julie


On Monday, February 10, 2003, at 11:46 AM, Sascha Franck wrote:

> Julie Larson wrote:
> > I'm down to 2....Yellow tools pure guitars...$134  and Hans Zimmer
> > guitars vol.2..$279.  Does anyone know if the extra $145 dollars is
> > money well spent?
>
> I have only heard very nice things about the YT guitars, including a 
> really
> convincing classical acoustic demo MP3. And as they come in EXS format 
> I'd
> think they are your better bet for now.
>
> Cheers,
> Sascha
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send a blank email to:
>    exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> For a list of places to get free samples please see:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exs-users/links/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm a guitarist as well--not a great one, but I can certainly tell
what works and 
what doesn't in a sampled guitar--and I also do a lot of arranging
where I don't 
have ready access to recording gear... using my laptop on the
road--so I use a 
lot of sampled guitar when I'm not able to put down a real part. I've
found that 
a lot of what brings "guitar" to a sample is how it's played, not how
it sounds, 
since we're used to hearing guitar with a lot of processing anyway.
My current 
guitar samples are very simple--an acoustic from American Heartland,
the 
muted electric that came with the EXS, and a free archtop I
downloaded as a 
sound font. 

If *I* were to commission someone to put together the ultimate guitar
library 
for me, here's what I'd want:

FEW GUITARS SAMPLED WELL: An acoustic (a Martin or Taylor; maybe one 
of each), an electric (a Les Paul or Strat) and maybe a hollow body
electric or 
archtop; each recorded with various styles of playing but the same
style of 
recording, ie muted, picked, finger picked, harmonics. Minimal
effects. 

COMMON CHORD ARTICULATIONS: I can program fingerpicking patterns so 
well now that, well, last month I did a recording session with a folk
singer who 
never quite nailed her guitar part. I *programmed* the part and she
thought I'd 
comped together a bunch of her takes. While picking works fine, I've
never 
heard a sampled guitar that *strummed* naturally. Either you have a
"strum" 
sample, wherein the strums don't have anything to do rhythmically
with the 
tempo of the piece, or you strum the MIDI guitar and get notes that
were all 
sampled individually and don't have that distinctive "strum" quality.
I'd love to 
have something that had a few dozen strum patterns for all the basic
chords in 
a kind of "Groove Control" or REX format that would scale tempo wise,
where 
the strings would ring out and mute each other naturally and the
strum would 
have rhythmic meaning. Ideally, you'd have several chord voicings,
such as 
open chords for folk music, root-fifth "power" chords for rock, and
inverted 
voicings for jazz. 

PREAMP FUNCTIONS: As long as I'm dreaming here, I would want a plug
in 
designed to work with this library that ran the guitars through a
particular mic, 
preamp, amp setup, like what the Line6Pod does. That way, even though 
there's only three or four guitars, I can process them in a wide
variety of ways.

That's how *I* as a sample-using guitar player would use a sampled
guitar 
library. And that's the kind of thing I'd be pleased to hear a
non-guitar playing 
arranger using. If you (or anyone) came up with something like that,
I'd look at 
it pretty seriously. 

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, teddybut <teddybut@e...> wrote:
> I was thinking of creating and marketing my own guitar library.
anyone have
> any suggestions as to what should be in a good guitar library? as a
> guitarist, I have no idea what non-gtrists would want in their gtr
library.

> anyone willing to help me market and distribute such a product? EP??
> 
> thanks,
> Teddy "guitar" But

"Rob " wrote:
> 
> If *I* were to commission someone to put together the ultimate
> guitar library for me, here's what I'd want:
> 
> FEW GUITARS SAMPLED WELL

Yup!

> or you strum the MIDI guitar and get notes that were all
> sampled individually and don't have that distinctive "strum" quality.

?! Wow... I'd always imagined that a strummed MIDI guitar playing good
guitar samples'd do the trick. But you're saying that there are greater
levels of realism to be attained. I'd be very interested in hearing the difference...

I've gotten by for years using the JV-1080 guitars and some strumming
patterns that I did in Logic (by golly - that "note overlap correction"
function's handy!) Even fooled a few guitarists.


Cheers,   Bill Canty

"Rob " also wrote:
> 
> I've found that a lot of what brings "guitar" to a
> sample is how it's played, not how it sounds,

Agreed!

Which is why, IMO, the Creamware physical modelled guitar demos failed
to convince.

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Bill Canty <bill@b...> wrote:
...
> I've gotten by for years using the JV-1080 guitars and some 
strumming
> patterns that I did in Logic (by golly - that "note overlap 
correction"
> function's handy!) Even fooled a few guitarists.

Long time ago, I used to use a U110 with an "electric guitar" ROM 
card, bunged through a guitar multi-effects unit.
I had two main methods -- 

1: Have the thing playing as six mono MIDI channels (one per string), 
and record the piece normally from a keyboard, then run through on 
Notator's <!> event edit page changing the MIDI channels to the 
correct string numbers. That gave correct note-note cutoffs and also 
let you bend a note on one string (by overdubbing a pitchbend on the 
channel) without affecting the pitches of the other playing notes. 
You had all the controllers independently for each string, and could 
tweak the six sets of patch parameters so that the same note sounded 
slightly different when assigned to different strings (so you could 
get some nice variation by having the same repeated note# alternating 
between different strings).

2: Again, six channels, but assigned to different playing styles 
(pick, heavy, feedback, etc). Then you could play the part in and 
then go through on the edit page assigning different playing styles 
to different notes, again by editing each individual note's MIDI 
channel.

Worked pretty well.

At a pinch, an expressive electric piano patch (eg an FM patch) can 
also sometimes work well as a base for a more simple electric guitar 
sound, if you are feeding it through lots of overdive, chorus, 
distortion, etc.

This is great!

> 1: Have the thing playing as six mono MIDI channels (one per string),
> and record the piece normally from a keyboard, then run through on
> Notator's <!> event edit page changing the MIDI channels to the
> correct string numbers. That gave correct note-note cutoffs and also
> let you bend a note on one string (by overdubbing a pitchbend on the
> channel) without affecting the pitches of the other playing notes.
> You had all the controllers independently for each string, and could
> tweak the six sets of patch parameters so that the same note sounded
> slightly different when assigned to different strings (so you could
> get some nice variation by having the same repeated note# alternating
> between different strings).

This is probably the same problem i have described in the message #9048 
"Next EXS Instrument command crashes Logic"...