Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Is it possible to upgrade the sounds in a DTXpress 2 to a, let's say, 
DTXpress 3.
I mean, it's just a computer isn't it?
There must be a way to update the firmware or something like that. 
Maybe someone tried this before or contacted Yamaha about this.

Tom

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "ruffalo2003" <ruffalo2003@y...> 
wrote:
> Is it possible to upgrade the sounds in a DTXpress 2 to a, let's 
say, 
> DTXpress 3.
> I mean, it's just a computer isn't it?
> There must be a way to update the firmware or something like that. 
> Maybe someone tried this before or contacted Yamaha about this.
> 
> Tom

Tom,

I asked Yamaha Japan and the answer was No.

Sorry,

OGD

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "ruffalo2003" <ruffalo2003@y...> 
> wrote:
> > Is it possible to upgrade the sounds in a DTXpress 2 to a, let's 
> say, 
> > DTXpress 3.
> > I mean, it's just a computer isn't it?
> > There must be a way to update the firmware or something like that. 
> > Maybe someone tried this before or contacted Yamaha about this.
> > 
> > Tom
> 
> Tom,
> 
> I asked Yamaha Japan and the answer was No.
> 
> Sorry,
> 
> OGD

What is the part number of the ROM?  It should not be that difficult
to copy a ROM from the DTXpress 3.  Would Yamaha be upset by this?

Keith.

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:19:55 -0000, keith1200rs wrote:
>\ufffdWhat is the part number of the ROM? \ufffdIt should not be that difficult
>\ufffdto copy a ROM from the DTXpress 3. \ufffdWould Yamaha be upset by this?

Besides copying copyrighted works (I'll leave the morality and legality
of that to the reader), this is highly unlikely to work. It's almost
certain that the data table addresses and contents very from module
model to model. It's also likely that the ROM contains not only sound
data tables but the actual operating code (or parts of it) for the CPU
in the module. I can pretty much guarantee the operating code will be
different for each different module and revision.

Matt Pobursky

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Matt Pobursky <ccsuser@m...> wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:19:55 -0000, keith1200rs wrote:
> > What is the part number of the ROM?  It should not be that difficult
> > to copy a ROM from the DTXpress 3.  Would Yamaha be upset by this?
> 
> Besides copying copyrighted works (I'll leave the morality and legality
> of that to the reader), this is highly unlikely to work. It's almost
> certain that the data table addresses and contents very from module
> model to model. It's also likely that the ROM contains not only sound
> data tables but the actual operating code (or parts of it) for the CPU
> in the module. I can pretty much guarantee the operating code will be
> different for each different module and revision.
> 
> Matt Pobursky

It depends if the operating code is in the same ROM as the data.  If
the processor/DSP is the same between models and all code and data is
in the ROM then a ROM swap should be straightforward. 

Keith.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "keith1200rs" <keith@k...> wrote:
> It depends if the operating code is in the same ROM as the data.  If
> the processor/DSP is the same between models and all code and data 
is
> in the ROM then a ROM swap should be straightforward. 

I seem to recall that the modules all differ in that respect, but 
even if I'm wrong, we have no desire to subvert Yamaha. In fact, 
we've been working to build a cooperative relationship.

Ed

--- keith1200rs wrote:

> It should not be that difficult to copy a ROM from the
> DTXpress 3.  Would Yamaha be upset by this?

You think? I mean, it's not as if the code is their intellectual 
property or anything.

But wait ... I remember, it is!

And as a CTO at a company that makes its living selling software, I 
can tell you I'd be mightily pissed if I were in their shoes.

Stewart

On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 05:54 PM, keith1200rs wrote:

> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Matt Pobursky <ccsuser@m...> wrote:
> > On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:19:55 -0000, keith1200rs wrote:
> > > What is the part number of the ROM?  It should not be that 
> difficult
> > > to copy a ROM from the DTXpress 3.  Would Yamaha be upset by this?
> >
> > Besides copying copyrighted works (I'll leave the morality and 
> legality
> > of that to the reader), this is highly unlikely to work. It's almost
> > certain that the data table addresses and contents very from module
> > model to model. It's also likely that the ROM contains not only sound
> > data tables but the actual operating code (or parts of it) for the 
> CPU
> > in the module. I can pretty much guarantee the operating code will be
> > different for each different module and revision.
> >
> > Matt Pobursky
>
> It depends if the operating code is in the same ROM as the data.  If
> the processor/DSP is the same between models and all code and data is
> in the ROM then a ROM swap should be straightforward.
>
> Keith.
>
And also most likely a violation of Yamaha's EULA, if the DTXpress 
innards haven't changed (which, according to Yamaha, they have). Keep 
yourself in safe legal waters and just buy the new brain.

Stuart McConaghy
Canopus Drums
Meinl Cymbals
SilverFox Sticks

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Stuart McConaghy <stuart@s...> wrote:
> 
> And also most likely a violation of Yamaha's EULA, if the DTXpress 
> innards haven't changed (which, according to Yamaha, they have). 
Keep 
> yourself in safe legal waters and just buy the new brain.
> 
> Stuart McConaghy
> Canopus Drums
> Meinl Cymbals
> SilverFox Sticks

I don't beleive EULA applies to a product, typically just software. 
There isn't any software included with the Dtxpress II, just 
Hardware. And as such there is no "end user" but rather an "owner". 
The software you buy is licensed for use, you as the purchaser do not 
own the software, you are given, a grant of usage for a specified 
period of time. Thus as an "Owner" of the product and not licensee 
you would not be subject to a EULA.

The fact is just like car that is purchased and can be totally 
disassembled and modified, I can take one of my TP65 and cut the flat 
portion of the rubber pad out and mount it on my work bench and use 
it in my woodworking shop. I could un-solder the resistors from the 
printed circuit board and use it to make a remote control relay for 
my camera. I own the Dtxpress II and can use or dispose of it however 
I like. What I can't do is take it apart or reverse engineer it and 
use the technology to make my own drum set or module for sale. That 
would be covered under a patent infringement. Or if I reproduced the 
manual for resale, that would be a copyright infringement. So if 
somebody wants to take a peizo out of a pad and replace with a 
different one for his/her use or if they want to take a chip out of 
the module and put their own it or a modified one in it, it is within 
there rights, since it is their property. (Of course taking something 
apart can and should void any factory warranty. My components were 
not under warranty when I took them apart and photographed them.)

But with that said, Ed is right, we have gotten tremendous help and 
support from Yamaha. I have asked them many questions in the past, 
and have not found any of their answers to be false or misleading. I 
asked specifically about upgrading the Dtxpress I with a Dtxpress II 
chipset and about upgrading a Dtxpress II chipset to a Dtxpress III 
and was told by So Tanaka that it is not possible. 

By the way has anybody opened up thier Dtxpress I module and compared 
the insides to the photos that I posted of the inside of the Dtxpress 
II? Come on somebody be a brave soul and open one up!!!

It would be interesting to see the differences. (Remove two screws on 
each side, one screw in the back, and just slide of the cover.)

(disclamer: If this post doesn't make sense it is because I have only 
had about 20 hours of sleep in the past 6 days. I just took the quick 
break to babble this post out, now it's back to work. I need some 
sleep, and a new Dtxtreme IIS.)

OGD

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" <moosetication@y...> 
wrote:
> --- keith1200rs wrote:
> 
> > It should not be that difficult to copy a ROM from the
> > DTXpress 3.  Would Yamaha be upset by this?
> 
> You think? I mean, it's not as if the code is their intellectual 
> property or anything.
> 
> But wait ... I remember, it is!
> 
> And as a CTO at a company that makes its living selling software, I 
> can tell you I'd be mightily pissed if I were in their shoes.
> 
> Stewart

You are correct. With software the company that writes it, owns it. 
The people who buy your software in the stores, only "own" the 
physical objects, they do not own the software or programming code. 
The company licenses the software use contingent on the 
specified "End User Licensing Agreement". And most licenses do not 
not allow for reverse engineering, with the exception of some 
freeware apps. I would be pretty upset too if I wrote a program with 
the intention to sale it and somebody started modifying it and 
distributing it, after it was on the market.

OGD

On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 08:13 PM, oldguydrummer wrote:
>
> I don't beleive EULA applies to a product, typically just software.
> There isn't any software included with the Dtxpress II, just
> Hardware. And as such there is no "end user" but rather an "owner".
> The software you buy is licensed for use, you as the purchaser do not
> own the software, you are given, a grant of usage for a specified
> period of time. Thus as an "Owner" of the product and not licensee
> you would not be subject to a EULA.
>

You're right about that, however, the module is controlled by an 
operating system, which is licensed for use by the end user as by the 
Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Also, any modification of computer 
technology can be construed (and has been in court) as reverse 
engineering, which is illegal. Thus, as an owner, you can be severely 
fined or even jailed for modifying any piece of technology beyond it's 
intended purpose. Of course, this hasn't been sufficiently tested in 
court (yet), there have only been a handful of cases so far, but I 
wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a copyright infringement 
lawsuit. Rule of thumb so far seems to be if it has microchip circuitry 
inside, modification is illegal.


Stuart McConaghy
Canopus Drums
Meinl Cymbals
SilverFox Sticks

There are two issues here:

1. should people copy the ROMs, or other parts of products - simple
answer is no.

2. why should they want to?  Answer, because manufacturers don't want
to supply upgrades.  It may be that it is technically impossible for a
DTX III chip to work in the II due to hardware changes.  If not,
Yamaha could supply upgraded ROMs if the wanted to.  Even if a
straight upgrade is not possible, a DTX II ROM with the new sounds in
would, I am sure, be possible if Yamaha wanted to make one.

It is not unusual to be able to upgrade sofwtare functionality without
scrapping the hardware.  Even Microsoft don't force you to buy a new
computer just to buy a software upgrade (although I am sure they would
if they could, and if you had to buy the computers from them).  Garmin
supply free upgrades of the software in their GPS systems.  This is
actually for free, but I wouldn't mind paying for an upgrade to get
new features if they were of use to me.  Given the DTX has a serial
port, a software upgrade without removing the ROMs could have been
built into the poruct if FLASH ROMs were used.

The original question was - "Is it possible to upgrade the sounds in a
DTXpress 2 to a, let's say, DTXpress 3."  The answer, I am sure is -
"if Yamaha wanted to supply it - they could".  If they don't, it may
be possible to use the DTX 3 ROM in the DTX 2 - only Yamaha really
know the answer to that at the moment.  Personally I would like to see
Yamaha supply  upgrade ROMs, even if they do it through an independent
agent to save themselves the hassle (for a fee of course).  It might
help them shift all the left over DTX 2 boxes in the UK.

Keith.

Ok, I don't want to piss yamaha off, and I'm sure nobody in this 
group wants to. Maybe we could contact them en they could make a deal 
with the group.
Something like: we buy 15 new brains and get a good price......

Tom

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "ruffalo2003" <ruffalo2003@y...> 
wrote:
> Ok, I don't want to piss yamaha off, and I'm sure nobody in this 
> group wants to. Maybe we could contact them en they could make a 
deal 
> with the group.
> Something like: we buy 15 new brains and get a good price......

Tom,

I don't want to jump the gun here, but something like the direction 
that you suggest is ultimately where we'd like to be headed. We're 
hoping that the sheer size and the interest of this group can 
translate into some tangible benefit, and influence. OGD, Vern, and I 
have been speaking behind the scenes about establishing relationships 
with vendors that could translate into discounts for group members. 
There are definitely kinks still to be worked out in our strategy, 
but we will come up with a viable pitch as soon as possible. So far 
as Yamaha is concerned, I like to think that this group has shown up 
on the company's radar for years, but it has never enjoyed the kind 
of presence that it has of late. And, by all accounts, it will only 
get better. OGD's recent contact with Jim Haler and So Tanaka is of 
immense value, and I put Jim Haler in contact with Chris Jude so that 
they could schedule a Yamaha chat at edrumming.com. Though I played 
broker for that event, I've reminded Haler that this forum is the one 
with the dedicated Yamaha edrummers, and he acknowledged us as such, 
promising to establish closer relations. Also, I've spoken to Brian 
LaRue at Pintech about how to bring his company more explicitly into 
our picture pursuant to the distribution deal that Yamaha just made 
with Pintech. I've already posted some of Pintech's plans, but Brian 
will have more news that will impact us here very soon. His 
membership in this group is not to be underestimated.

Ed

<$0.02>
oldguydrummer said:
> I don't beleive EULA applies to a product, typically just software.
> There isn't any software included with the Dtxpress II, just
> Hardware.

Hmmm have to disagree with you there. Just because software doesn't come
on CDROM or floppy, doesn't mean you were not provided with software. The
Software is saved to Read Only Memory chips (ROMs) inside the DTXPress
brain and it is very much covered under an end user license agreement.

You will typically find that all commercial software is covered with a
slew of restrictions on its use. The ROMs in the DTXpress are covered
under the same EULA as any other software provided by Yamaha with their
products. I'd be willing to bet any Yamaha rep would back me up on this.

> And as such there is no "end user" but rather an "owner".

This is a surprisingly widely held (and very wrong!) conclusion. Just
about every piece of digital electronic equipment has a microcontroller
of some type in it. These itty-bitty computers each have software that
guides their actions, and someone wrote that software and someone
(intrinsicly) has a copyright on it. For an example of one of these tiny,
embedable computers (which I use a bunch myself) look here:

http://www.parallax.com

The Basic Stamp is the one I use for small projects.

> The software you buy is licensed for use, you as the purchaser do not
> own the software, you are given, a grant of usage for a specified
> period of time.

Absolutely correct!

> Thus as an "Owner" of the product and not licensee
> you would not be subject to a EULA.

This conclusion doesn't follow. If I purchase the DTXpress unit, I own
the metal, plastic and silicon, but I do not *own* the software code that
makes the contraption useful. I can do as I please with the physical
pieces (except of course copy any aspect of the system covered by a
patent, but thats a different thread all together!) but I am not allowed
to extract the software that makes the machine run, and then copy and
sell it to others. In fact the "classic Game" industry has had problems
with this for quite a while.

If I were to follow the reasoning above, I would be able to purchase a
stand-up "PACMAN" machine, remove and copy the ROMS and then sell them to
people to use with a software product like "MAME" ( http://www.mame.net/
).

To be clear: When ROMS contain software, the copying of that software is
at the discretion of the copyright holder.

The reason I had to chime in on this is that I just finished getting my 
Certified Software Asset Manager (CSAM) certificate from IAITAM
(http://www.iaitam.org) and the legal use of software is the core of this
course.

I could carry on an in depth discussion about this and about how I think
some of the EULA restrictions by some of the manufacturers of software
are despicable, but thats not a topic for *this* forum. ;)

Suffice to say, the DTXpress forum does not condone, nor will we allow
the discussion of, methods to deprive vendors of their intellectual
property.

If you need new ROMs, contact Yamaha and ask them. They've provided them
to other users without charge in the past. Lets not give them a reason to
worry. :)

Vern

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG

would it be more or less of a problem to upgrade the
new cymbal sounds?

should the sounds be stored somewhere in the ROM's
firmware, where to 'clean up' the sound just some
parameters were modified?

I really don't have a clue do I?

Regards.

Pedro.


--- oldguydrummer <rdamon@...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Stuart McConaghy
> <stuart@s...> wrote:
> > 
> > And also most likely a violation of Yamaha's EULA,
> if the DTXpress 
> > innards haven't changed (which, according to
> Yamaha, they have). 
> Keep 
> > yourself in safe legal waters and just buy the new
> brain.
> > 
> > Stuart McConaghy
> > Canopus Drums
> > Meinl Cymbals
> > SilverFox Sticks
> 
> I don't beleive EULA applies to a product, typically
> just software. 
> There isn't any software included with the Dtxpress
> II, just 
> Hardware. And as such there is no "end user" but
> rather an "owner". 
> The software you buy is licensed for use, you as the
> purchaser do not 
> own the software, you are given, a grant of usage
> for a specified 
> period of time. Thus as an "Owner" of the product
> and not licensee 
> you would not be subject to a EULA.
> 
> The fact is just like car that is purchased and can
> be totally 
> disassembled and modified, I can take one of my TP65
> and cut the flat 
> portion of the rubber pad out and mount it on my
> work bench and use 
> it in my woodworking shop. I could un-solder the
> resistors from the 
> printed circuit board and use it to make a remote
> control relay for 
> my camera. I own the Dtxpress II and can use or
> dispose of it however 
> I like. What I can't do is take it apart or reverse
> engineer it and 
> use the technology to make my own drum set or module
> for sale. That 
> would be covered under a patent infringement. Or if
> I reproduced the 
> manual for resale, that would be a copyright
> infringement. So if 
> somebody wants to take a peizo out of a pad and
> replace with a 
> different one for his/her use or if they want to
> take a chip out of 
> the module and put their own it or a modified one in
> it, it is within 
> there rights, since it is their property. (Of course
> taking something 
> apart can and should void any factory warranty. My
> components were 
> not under warranty when I took them apart and
> photographed them.)
> 
> But with that said, Ed is right, we have gotten
> tremendous help and 
> support from Yamaha. I have asked them many
> questions in the past, 
> and have not found any of their answers to be false
> or misleading. I 
> asked specifically about upgrading the Dtxpress I
> with a Dtxpress II 
> chipset and about upgrading a Dtxpress II chipset to
> a Dtxpress III 
> and was told by So Tanaka that it is not possible. 
> 
> By the way has anybody opened up thier Dtxpress I
> module and compared 
> the insides to the photos that I posted of the
> inside of the Dtxpress 
> II? Come on somebody be a brave soul and open one
> up!!!
> 
> It would be interesting to see the differences.
> (Remove two screws on 
> each side, one screw in the back, and just slide of
> the cover.)
> 
> (disclamer: If this post doesn't make sense it is
> because I have only 
> had about 20 hours of sleep in the past 6 days. I
> just took the quick 
> break to babble this post out, now it's back to
> work. I need some 
> sleep, and a new Dtxtreme IIS.)
> 
> OGD
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Theguy Withnoeye 
<theguywithnoeye@y...> wrote:
> would it be more or less of a problem to upgrade the
> new cymbal sounds?

Pedro,

The new cymbal sounds derive from new samples, not from "cleaning up" 
distortion or other anomalies on the earlier ones. 

Ed

Theguy Withnoeye said:
> would it be more or less of a problem to upgrade the
> new cymbal sounds?

This is a very open-ended question, and one that I don't know if can be
effectively answered (i.e. which variable is greater, "X" or "Y") other
than to say "It depends". Suffice to say it would be dependent upon how
the new cymbal sounds differ from the existing sounds.

A module like the DTXpressII is usually very finely tuned to work with
the firmware it has. By firmware I mean both the programs that operate
the unit, and the digital sound recordings contained within the unit.

If the new sounds were say 24bit samples, and the existing samples were
16 bit, then you would have to make wholesale changes in the D/A (Digital
to Analog) converters to allow them to play the different sample rate,
not to mention the BUS to carry the data and the horsepower of the
processor to process the new amount of data. Again, the answer is mostly
"It depends".

> should the sounds be stored somewhere in the ROM's
> firmware, where to 'clean up' the sound just some
> parameters were modified?

If the "new sounds" were recorded in the same way as the "old" ones, it
might be technically possible for Yamaha to just replace some parts in
the existing DTXPress II with sounds that were destined for the
DTXPressIII, however, what would be the benefit to them (Yamaha) in doing
so? This would have a demonstrable impact on sales of the new units since
the old units could be retrofitted with the benefits of the new module,
you wouldn't need to purchase the new one.

> I really don't have a clue do I?

Thats really not the point! :) Asking questions is how we *all* "get a
clue" about anything we do not understand. It's only frustrating for me
when I have to provide a giant answer to a seemingly small question, only
because the answer would make no sense outside the context of an
explanation.

I would rather give short, clear answers, but sometimes the question
itself precludes doing so when it demonstrates a lack of detailed
knowledge necessary to understand the asnwer. Please don't hesistate to
ask questions here, we are happy to respond and this is one of the few
forums I'm aware of where you have very little risk of getting flamed! :)

Lets see if I can summarize for anyone who is interested:

1) The sounds contained inside the DTXpressII ROM are NOT easily
replaced, and are not designed to be replaced.

2) There is no motivation for Yamaha to do this, nor to provide
assistance to anyone doing this.

3) If you are dissatisfied with the sounds in the DTXpressII module, then
it would be a good idea to take a look at the new offerings and consider
selling your old system to offset the cost. You may also consider asking
for kit settings from others to see if you can use a parameter change to
get closer to the sound you are seeking.

4) So far, no one I know of has found a way to replace the sounds, and I
would imagine it would be much more difficult than it would be worth.

5) The only case I have heard of where Yamaha sent a replace ROM to a
user, was to add some pad abilities to some of the inputs that were not
there before (search the archives for details on this).  This new ROM did
not change ANY of the *sounds* in the module, it only changed the
parameters you could set for a pad.

Does this help answer your questions? :)

Vern

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG

> Vern WROTE: 5) The only case I have heard of where Yamaha sent a replace
> ROM to a
> user, was to add some pad abilities to some of the inputs that were not
> there before (search the archives for details on this).   This new ROM did
> not change ANY of the *sounds* in the module, it only changed the
> parameters you could set for a pad.
> 
> Vern,
> 
It sounds like we have swap workloads, you have been swamped the past couple
of months with your software upgrades and I was free and clear. And now I am
swapped and you seem to be able to enjoy a little breathing room and start
posting again. Have you had a chance to get some stick time in lately? 

I was the one who got the ROM upgrade. I did take quite a bit of time going
through and comparing the new and old chip and the only thing that changed
was the new chip allows inputs 1,3,4,5,8 to choke with the cymbal pads. It
is kind wierd being able to choke a Hihat pad though. I guess that is why
Yamaha fixed it on the Dtxpress III module. If you set the input no. 8
trigger to pad 
> type RHH130 (the new hihat pad), it will disable the choking feature on
> input 8. I know the chip does not store any of your user settings, because
> after I replaced the chip, all my trigger settings and user kits were
> intact.
> 
OGD
> 
> 
 
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> -----Original Message-----
Ed wrote:Speaking of interesting, where is Yamaha getting its cymbal samples

> in the first place?   And how would a third party procure other 
> desirable ones for a new chip that would not cost at least as much as 
> a module? 
> 
> Ed, that brings up an interesting concept. Who owns sound?  If you buy a
> Sabian cymbal, you can record the sound, you can modify the sound
> electrically, and you can sell the sound, via a
> record/cd/cass/8-track/reel-to-reel, etc, the sound becomes your property.
> If that is possible then you should be able to sample any cymbal you buy
> and trigger it from your module or if you could figure out how to add the
> sounds to the CHIP, you should be able to do that as well. It is
> interesting that a Manufacturer like Yamaha would have to license the
> sound sample from Sabian cymbal, before they could include the sound in a
> module and sell it, yet end users like you and I can buy one, record the
> sound and sell it to whoever we want.
> 
As far as who they get the cymbal sounds from, the voice names gives you a
clue (i.e. Dark, NB-NewBeat, K13) that some must have come from zildian. But
alot of the names have become quite generic in nature. I just surprise with
they haven't just made some of their own to use for sampling.

Could you imagine if cymbal companys, decided to start licensing their
cymbal sounds for use and charged you a flat rate per usage for each live
performance or per each recording produced?


OGD






 
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rdamon@... said:
> It sounds like we have swap workloads, you have been swamped
> the past couple of months with your software upgrades and I
> was free and clear. And now I am swamped and you seem to be
> able to enjoy a little breathing room and start posting
> again.

Things were slow today mostly cause the boss is out of town ;) But yeah,
I've had a bit more time to look into my email...

> Have you had a chance to get some stick time in lately?

Hey now! Do *I* ask about you and *your* wife??!?! oh... wait a sec..
nevermind... ;)

Actually, I haven't played the dang thing in about 2 months. :( I get off
work, get home about 6:30, dinner & kids and then I'm working on the line
of computers on the floor outside my home workbench. It seems I have
become a free repair shop for all my family and friends. ::sigh::

> I was the one who got the ROM upgrade.

I thought so, but I didn't remember exactly, so rather than falsely
accuse you... :)

> I did take quite a bit of
> time going through and comparing the new and old chip and the
> only thing that changed was the new chip allows inputs 1,3,4,5
> 8 to choke with the cymbal pads. It is kind wierd being able to
> choke a Hihat pad though.

Don't feel weird about that, it's not that uncommon! I mean we've all
probably choked our... uh.. oh wait a sec.. nevermind... :D

> I guess that is why Yamaha fixed it on
> the Dtxpress III module. If you set the input no. 8 trigger to
> pad type RHH130 (the new hihat pad), it will disable the choking
> feature on input 8.

Cool. A intelligent move on their part since the foot-closing of the
hat's sorta like a choke really...

> I know the chip does not store any of your user settings, because
> after I replaced the chip, all my trigger settings and user kits
> were intact.

A perfect example of the difference between ROM and battery-backup RAM. :)

Vern

PS: Man, my mind needs a good washing... :P

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> I know the chip does not store any of your user settings, because
> > after I replaced the chip, all my trigger settings and user kits 
were
> > intact.

OGD,

Leaving user settings off the chip seems to be standard procedure. 
Ddrum does the same thing, although ddrum allows slight upgrades to 
its operating system via chip. In fact, all of its upgrades have come 
via chip replacement since 1996--the last one being a trigger setting 
for side-triggered mesh pads, among other things. But don't get me 
started.

Ed

> Hmmm have to disagree with you there. Just because software doesn't come
> on CDROM or floppy, doesn't mean you were not provided with software. The
> Software is saved to Read Only Memory chips (ROMs) inside the DTXPress
> brain and it is very much covered under an end user license agreement.
>
> You will typically find that all commercial software is covered with a
> slew of restrictions on its use. The ROMs in the DTXpress are covered
> under the same EULA as any other software provided by Yamaha with their
> products. I'd be willing to bet any Yamaha rep would back me up on this.

Ahh, Ahh!  Headache! (puts in Terminator 3 DVD)

Stephanie

> Could you imagine if cymbal companys, decided to start licensing their
> cymbal sounds for use and charged you a flat rate per usage for each live
> performance or per each recording produced?


Stephanie sits down and starts to write the script for Terminator 4, a VR 
movie in which nobody survives the viewing.

Stephanie

--- Vernon Graner <vern@...> wrote:

> Please don't hesistate to ask questions here, we are
happy  to respond and this is one of the few forums
I'm aware of where you have very little risk of
getting flamed! :)

......That's greatly appreciated, this group's one
more reason to love my DTXpress.....

Kindest Regards.
Pedro.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <boomer17@a...> wrote:
> Would this ROM upgrade work for the DTXpress brain and do you think 
they would send one to me? I would like the ability to choke the 
cymbals. Who did you call for the upgrade?

Ken,

If you have the DTXpress I or II, you already get choking on inputs 
2, 6, and 7, provided that you select the right pad type in the 
trigger menu and use a stereo cymbal like the PCY65S or PCY80S. OGD 
received a chip upgrade to permit all of his inputs on the module to 
choke because he has the equivalent of three entire DTXpressII kits 
and needs to use his inputs on each module in a nonstandard way. Most 
people don't need their hi hats, kicks, toms, and snares to choke--
let alone all of their cymbals.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <boomer17@a...> wrote:
> Would this ROM upgrade work for the DTXpress brain and do you think 
they would send one to me? I would like the ability to choke the 
cymbals. Who did you call for the upgrade?
> 

Ken,

A little history.

If you look in the photo's section at my kit you will see I have 11 
cymbal pads. All but two are stereo pads. I have three TP65S pads. I 
have three DtxpuII modules. On the Dtxpress II, I discovered that 
only inputs number 2,6 and 7 allow for choking. That means I only 
have nine inputs to use with choking capability. Using three inputs 
for the TP65S, left me with 6 inputs capable of choking. With 9 
stereo pads, that meant that three of the cymbal pads would end up 
plugged into non-choking inputs. I posted a comment about that on 
this group when I first joined. Someone posted that the Dtxpress I 
could choke on all inputs number 1-8. I emailed Yamaha and they 
confirmed that indeed that the choking was only available on inputs 
2,6 & 7 on the DtxpressII module. The upgrade chips that they sent me 
corrected the problem, by allowing me to have choking on all inputs 1-
8, just like the DtxpressI.  So if you have the DtxpressI, you 
already have that ability.

Since most people don't have a kit the size of mine, the need for the 
upgraded chips is minimal. 

OGD (OldGuyDrummer)

----- Original Message -----

From: emf

To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 2:28 PM

Subject: [DTXpress] Re: DTXpress 3 sounds

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <boomer17@a...> wrote:
> Would this ROM upgrade work for the DTXpress brain and do you think
they would send one to me? I would like the ability to choke the
cymbals. Who did you call for the upgrade?

Ken,

If you have the DTXpress I or II, you already get choking on inputs
2, 6, and 7, provided that you select the right pad type in the
trigger menu and use a stereo cymbal like the PCY65S or PCY80S. OGD
received a chip upgrade to permit all of his inputs on the module to
choke because he has the equivalent of three entire DTXpressII kits
and needs to use his inputs on each module in a nonstandard way. Most
people don't need their hi hats, kicks, toms, and snares to choke--
let alone all of their cymbals.

Ed



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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <boomer17@a...> wrote:
> I have the DTxpress, no choking.  :>(
> 
> Ken
> 
 Ken,

Do your cymbal pads (I assume you have PCY80 series, as oppose to the 
PCY60 series) a small "S" on the raised rim? The "S" should be at the 
center of the raised area of the rim.

In order for choking to work, you need to use a PCY80S or a PCY65S. 
The PCY60, PCY80 and the PCY65 are single zone pads and cannot be 
choked. The choking feature is a part of the rim switch feature that 
is only available on the PCY80S and the PCY65S.

IF you have a stereo cymbal pad, then you will need to set the 
trigger type to a "PCY Crash" pad. Then go to the voice settings for 
that pad and assign a voice for both the pad and for the rim. So if 
it is plugged into input no. 7, you must set Trig In= 7 voices for 
both the pad and the rim. You must also remember to use a stereo 
(Tip/Ring/Sleeve) cable between the pad and the module. Using a mono 
(Tip/Sleeve) cable with a only give you the pad sound and no choking 
even if you have everything else setup correctly.

The original Dtxpress I came with two cymbal pads a PCY60 and a 
PCY80S, only the PCY80S can be choked.

OGD