Digital BW, The Print

Would it not be more interesting to try ink media already available in the EU, more specific Germany?

http://www.octopus-office.de/en/shop/details/c/printer-ink-epson-t0540-t0549/p/ocp-optimizer-for-canon-bc-60-colourless/

I have used the OCP Kodak optimizer version for mixing HP Vivera inks. Others have used the OCP Epson version for the same job on Epson printers.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, piëzografie, giclée
www.pigment-print.com

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:00 AM, analogphoto68@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello to members from germany!

I would like to place an order to MIS (clearbase for printing on Arches). As shipping cost are extremely high, I would like tro try participants from germany for a collective order.

Is anyone interested?

Please feel free to contact me. We could then communicate viea email or telephone outside Yahoo.

Thank you so far!

G. Banse

Paul, is this the uncoated water color paper you use and recommend? I9;m going to give it a try when I get back from visiting family this week.

Arches Watercolor Block 140 Pound Hot Press Paper - 9 x 12 Sheets

Arches Watercolor Block 140 Pound Hot Press Paper - 9...

Shop Arches at the Amazon Arts, Crafts & Sewing store. Free Shipping on eligible items. Save on everyday low prices.

View on www.amazon.com

Preview by Yahoo

Helo. I am from Denmark. Have imported a few times and yes. Shipping has become more expensive. In Denmark there is a startup handling fee around 25 Euro. Plus VAT 25% and a few % in actual import duties. I Can make my own base AS i have the glycerol and the photo flo but I dont have the - 10% Dow Butoxytriglycol and the
- 1% Edwal LFN

Wondering If itbwould be possible to buy the other 2 ingrediens. The Butoxytriglycol has got its own name so I should be alle to buy it. But Edwal. I have done a lot of searching. No luck.

I would like to import with others from germany - EU. I would also be interested in importing Butoxytriglycol and Edwal from over there. (They are less bulky).

The octypussy stuff is interesting. I will try it out on my epson 1500 with eboni.

Carsten

Hello Paul!

That's the component I found immediately at my local pharmacy. Photoflo I got at macodirekt.de, a german supplier for analog materials. So at least for me it was absolutely easy for me mixing the C-6a inks and I had a total and easy succes on my R220 almost 5 years ago.

But the following alterations are the problem, beginning with Edwal LFN and ending with the Tergitol.


Gerd

Hi,

In the UK a pharmaceutical grade Glycerine can be bought from Boots the Chemist in 200mm bottles for about £1.39, look for it on the cough medicine shelf .

http://www.boots.com/en/Value-Health-Glycerin-B-P-200ml_852418/

Cheers

Nigel

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 27 December 2014 18:21
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] placing a collective order to MIS/inksupply from Germany

I brief search for glycerin (aka glycerol and glycerine) (99.7% pure food grade) in Europe failed to find easy sources of it in the EU. Is this (easy to get in the US for food and cosmetic uses) chemical no readily available in the EU?

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com

Hello,

I confirm what Ernst is saying. I have a R3000, and Ernst adviced me to
mix HP Vivera PK with the OCP alternative.
I left the original Epson MK ink cartridge in the printer (later on I
replaced it with HP Vivera MK).

Paul Roark helped me a lot with the QTR workflow, and I have created
some profiles.
Merely a combination of these inks with Canson papers (Rag
Photographique, BFK Rives).

The results are good.

Best regards,

Ben Albu

On 27-12-2014 11:08 AM, Ernst Dinkla ernst.dinkla@...

[DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] wrote:
> Some years ago I contacted, Robert or Richard, the owner of the Image
> Specialists import company here in The Netherlands, The price of a 1
> liter bottle was something like 50 Euro, way more than I paid for the
>; OCP Gloss Optimizer.
>
> A decade ago I bought Mediastreet and later MIS inks (colors sets) for
> Epson 9000s and a 10000. Together with a friend, gallons usually. Most
> of the time it went right but one time a jar was leaking, another time
> a Light Magenta ink did not correspond to the Light Magenta we had
> before. MIS replaced the last but it is not very comvenient to deal
> with a supplier that far away.
>
> The OCP Kodak Gloss Optimizer that I bought was for mixing HP Vivera
> PK ink for a HP thermal head printer so all the components are
> compatible with thermal heads. No complaints about their behaviour in
> the printer.
>
> About two years ago Ben Albu in Belgium wrote about going the
> piëzography route. I advised him to get Vivera pigment ink MK and PK
> and mix it with the OCP alternative for Epson R1800 gloss enhancer. To
> be used on an Epson R3000. He did that and contacted Paul for some
> finer details, Paul has used Vivera PK pigment inks diluted with ink
> medium in Epson printers. It worked well as far as I can recall.
>
> BTW in my email exchanges Ben mentioned a former MIS ink importer in
> Germany who claimed they had some difficulty with the products or the
> shipping and created their own carbon ink line since. Both Ben and I
> do not have experience with their products.
>

> farbenwerk [2]
> Im Winkel 1a
> D-46286 Dorsten
> 
> Telefon: +49 (0) 2369/2495987 [3]
> Telefax: +49 (0) 2369/2495989 [4]
> info@...
> http://www.farbenwerk.com [5]
>
> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
>
> Dinkla Grafische Techniek
> Quad, piëzografie, giclée
> www.pigment-print.com [6]
>
> On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Michael-K michael3442@...
> [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ernst, here's a link to Image Specialists global distributors; I see
>> there's one in The Netherlands. I would drop them an email (or call)
>> and ask about the ink's availability. Might be worth the effort.
>>
>> http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us_global_dis.aspx [1]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us_global_dis.aspx
> [2] http://farbenwerk.com/
> [3] tel:%2B49%20%280%29%202369%2F2495987
> [4] tel:%2B49%20%280%29%202369%2F2495989
> [5] http://www.farbenwerk.com/
> [6] http://www.pigment-print.com
> [7]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/messages/108165;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZGVpdTgyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BG1zZ0lkAzEwODE2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5Mzg-?act=reply&messageNum=108165
> [8]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZWphaHZ1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTY3NDkzOA--
> [9]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/topics/108148;_ylc=X3oDMTM4MWg2bjZjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BG1zZ0lkAzEwODE2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5MzgEdHBjSWQDMTA4MTQ4
> [10] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> [11] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> [12]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNXNxaW9lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTY3NDkzOA--
> [13]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdmU0NDBpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5Mzg-
> [14]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdjEzb3NuBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDE5Njc0OTM4
> [15] https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
> [16] https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

Paul,

For the HP MK and possible MK dilutions we do not have information on their fade resistance. There are of course the MK black patches as measured in Aardenburg's Vivera pigment ink tests but that is all. I expect no difference between the HP MK and Eboni in black patches behaviour in time, the HP MK is not made neutral by HP and is slightly warmer than Eboni.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, piëzografie, giclée
www.pigment-print.com

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The HP 3200 PK and grays are the best of the neutralized carbon (carbon cooled with color pigments) inks, in my view. As you can see from page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf , which has a chart comparing some delta-e values from http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ fade tests, the HP neutral inks edge out the Epson ABW approach, though the HP PK and grays are still not in the 100% carbon class, by quite a large margin.

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Ben Albu ben@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello,

I confirm what Ernst is saying. I have a R3000, and Ernst adviced me to
mix HP Vivera PK with the OCP alternative.
I left the original Epson MK ink cartridge in the printer (later on I
replaced it with HP Vivera MK).

Paul Roark helped me a lot with the QTR workflow, and I have created
some profiles.
Merely a combination of these inks with Canson papers (Rag
Photographique, BFK Rives).

The results are good.

Best regards,

Ben Albu

On 27-12-2014 11:08 AM, Ernst Dinkla ernst.dinkla@...

[DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] wrote:
> Some years ago I contacted, Robert or Richard, the owner of the Image
> Specialists import company here in The Netherlands, The price of a 1
> liter bottle was something like 50 Euro, way more than I paid for the
> OCP Gloss Optimizer.
>
> A decade ago I bought Mediastreet and later MIS inks (colors sets) for
> Epson 9000s and a 10000. Together with a friend, gallons usually. Most
> of the time it went right but one time a jar was leaking, another time
> a Light Magenta ink did not correspond to the Light Magenta we had
> before. MIS replaced the last but it is not very comvenient to deal
> with a supplier that far away.
>
> The OCP Kodak Gloss Optimizer that I bought was for mixing HP Vivera
> PK ink for a HP thermal head printer so all the components are
> compatible with thermal heads. No complaints about their behaviour in
> the printer.
>
> About two years ago Ben Albu in Belgium wrote about going the
> piëzography route. I advised him to get Vivera pigment ink MK and PK
> and mix it with the OCP alternative for Epson R1800 gloss enhancer. To
> be used on an Epson R3000. He did that and contacted Paul for some
> finer details, Paul has used Vivera PK pigment inks diluted with ink
> medium in Epson printers. It worked well as far as I can recall.
>
> BTW in my email exchanges Ben mentioned a former MIS ink importer in
> Germany who claimed they had some difficulty with the products or the
> shipping and created their own carbon ink line since. Both Ben and I
> do not have experience with their products.
>

> farbenwerk [2]
> Im Winkel 1a
> D-46286 Dorsten
> 
> Telefon: +49 (0) 2369/2495987 [3]
>; Telefax: +49 (0) 2369/2495989 [4]
> info@...
> http://www.farbenwerk.com [5]
>
> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
>
> Dinkla Grafische Techniek
> Quad, piëzografie, giclée
> www.pigment-print.com [6]
>
> On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Michael-K michael3442@...
> [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ernst, here's a link to Image Specialists global distributors; I see
>> there's one in The Netherlands. I would drop them an email (or call)
>> and ask about the ink's availability. Might be worth the effort.
>>
>> http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us_global_dis.aspx [1]
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us_global_dis.aspx
> [2] http://farbenwerk.com/
> [3] tel:%2B49%20%280%29%202369%2F2495987
> [4] tel:%2B49%20%280%29%202369%2F2495989
> [5] http://www.farbenwerk.com/
> [6] http://www.pigment-print.com
> [7]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/messages/108165;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZGVpdTgyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BG1zZ0lkAzEwODE2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5Mzg-?act=reply&messageNum=108165
> [8]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZWphaHZ1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTY3NDkzOA--
> [9]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/topics/108148;_ylc=X3oDMTM4MWg2bjZjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BG1zZ0lkAzEwODE2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5MzgEdHBjSWQDMTA4MTQ4
> [10] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> [11] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> [12]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNXNxaW9lBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTY3NDkzOA--
> [13]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdmU0NDBpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5Mzg-
> [14]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkdjEzb3NuBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDE5Njc0OTM4
> [15] https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html
> [16] https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

While not comparable to a true quad/hexatone diluted HP MK print I measured the HP MK black only calibration strip of my Z3100. Printed on Innova IFA24 Decor Art which is close to neutral on the warm side, no OBA content.

Lab values

1 97.35 -0.24 2.49 paper white

2 90.48 -0.10 2.78

3 83.90 0.07 2.82

4 76.90 0.29 3.09

5 71.55 0.44 3.23

6 65.79 0.62 3.47

7 60.41 0.75 3.67

8 55.34 0.83 3.68

9 50.06 0.93 3.72

10 44.09 1.06 3.89

11 40.62 1.01 3.55

12 33.65 1.16 3.69

13 28.48 1.12 3.27

14 23.61 0.99 2.57

15 18.77 0.86 1.96

16 16.42 0.63 1.34 best MK black

17 16.93 0.46 1.20 too much ink

MeasureTool + the Eye One Pro non-UV cut

So much warmer in the mid range.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, piëzografie, giclée
www.pigment-print.com

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

In my brief look at the HP MK, I found them warm, as you noted. They appeared to be carbon, which generally means they';d be very fade resistant.

I have never tried to dilute the HP MK, but it would probably stay in suspension better than Eboni due to having to be smaller to be used in the lower viscosity thermal liquid medium. I suspect for someone who wants a very warm print, the HP MK would make a good pigment and print much the same as the Cone Carbon Sepia.

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 12:32 AM, Ernst Dinkla ernst.dinkla@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul,

For the HP MK and possible MK dilutions we do not have information on their fade resistance. There are of course the MK black patches as measured in Aardenburg's Vivera pigment ink tests but that is all. I expect no difference between the HP MK and Eboni in black patches behaviour in time, the HP MK is not made neutral by HP and is slightly warmer than Eboni.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, piëzografie, giclée
www.pigment-print.com

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The HP 3200 PK and grays are the best of the neutralized carbon (carbon cooled with color pigments) inks, in my view. As you can see from page 2 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf , which has a chart comparing some delta-e values from http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ fade tests, the HP neutral inks edge out the Epson ABW approach, though the HP PK and grays are still not in the 100% carbon class, by quite a large margin.

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com

On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Ben Albu ben@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello,

I confirm what Ernst is saying. I have a R3000, and Ernst adviced me to
mix HP Vivera PK with the OCP alternative.
I left the original Epson MK ink cartridge in the printer (later on I
replaced it with HP Vivera MK).

Paul Roark helped me a lot with the QTR workflow, and I have created
some profiles.
Merely a combination of these inks with Canson papers (Rag
Photographique, BFK Rives).

The results are good.

Best regards,

Ben Albu

On 27-12-2014 11:08 AM, Ernst Dinkla ernst.dinkla@...

[DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] wrote:
> Some years ago I contacted, Robert or Richard, the owner of the Image
> Specialists import company here in The Netherlands, The price of a 1
> liter bottle was something like 50 Euro, way more than I paid for the
> OCP Gloss Optimizer.
>
> A decade ago I bought Mediastreet and later MIS inks (colors sets) for
> Epson 9000s and a 10000. Together with a friend, gallons usually. Most
> of the time it went right but one time a jar was leaking, another time
> a Light Magenta ink did not correspond to the Light Magenta we had
> before. MIS replaced the last but it is not very comvenient to deal
> with a supplier that far away.
>
> The OCP Kodak Gloss Optimizer that I bought was for mixing HP Vivera
> PK ink for a HP thermal head printer so all the components are
> compatible with thermal heads. No complaints about their behaviour in
> the printer.
>
> About two years ago Ben Albu in Belgium wrote about going the
> piëzography route. I advised him to get Vivera pigment ink MK and PK
> and mix it with the OCP alternative for Epson R1800 gloss enhancer. To
> be used on an Epson R3000. He did that and contacted Paul for some
> finer details, Paul has used Vivera PK pigment inks diluted with ink
> medium in Epson printers. It worked well as far as I can recall.
>
> BTW in my email exchanges Ben mentioned a former MIS ink importer in
> Germany who claimed they had some difficulty with the products or the
> shipping and created their own carbon ink line since. Both Ben and I
> do not have experience with their products.
>

> farbenwerk [2]
> Im Winkel 1a
> D-46286 Dorsten
> 
> Telefon: +49 (0) 2369/2495987 [3]
> Telefax: +49 (0) 2369/2495989 [4]
> info@...
> http://www.farbenwerk.com [5]
>
> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
>
> Dinkla Grafische Techniek
> Quad, piëzografie, giclée
> www.pigment-print.com [6]
>
> On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Michael-K michael3442@...
> [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]
> <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Ernst, here's a link to Image Specialists global distributors; I see
>> there's one in The Netherlands. I would drop them an email (or call)
>;> and ask about the ink's availability. Might be worth the effort.
>>
>> http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us_global_dis.aspx [1]
>
>
>
>; Links:
> ------
> [1] http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us_global_dis.aspx
> [2] http://farbenwerk.com/
> [3] tel:%2B49%20%280%29%202369%2F2495987
> [4] tel:%2B49%20%280%29%202369%2F2495989
> [5] http://www.farbenwerk.com/
> [6] http://www.pigment-print.com
> [7]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/messages/108165;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZGVpdTgyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BG1zZ0lkAzEwODE2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5Mzg-?act=reply&messageNum=108165
> [8]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZWphaHZ1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTY3NDkzOA--
> [9]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/topics/108148;_ylc=X3oDMTM4MWg2bjZjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BG1zZ0lkAzEwODE2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5MzgEdHBjSWQDMTA4MTQ4
> [10] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> [11] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> [12]
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> [13]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdmU0NDBpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1Nzg1ODM2BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzE0MTk2NzQ5Mzg-
> [14]
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