Digital BW, The Print

Martin, got a question for you.

How do you get just the black or color nozzle check with the 1280? How do you get it to print 2 pages with 9 boxes? I know if you click on
"Update" the printer knows you are using the CIS system from nomorecarts, as it tells you that!

Jerry

Martin,


>> ... [1280] updated curves files.

>... I printed out 21-step wedges of all
>five. The neutral, nc4, and the cool, c16, look to be the smoothest.
>The cold, cc5, may have a flat spot between 50% and 60%. The medium-
>warm and warm have some flat areas in the %65 to 75% range. ...
> Improved over the previous curve so you are moving it
>in the right direction. The neutral print looks very good.

If you could send me some test strips, I'll be able to compare them to
Jerry's and see if we have a Mac v. PC problem or settings problem.   So,
far the Mac and PC seem to print the test files with the same curves in the
same manner.  Usually if there is a difference, it's in the paper type of
other printer settings.

>
>> I also often print at any resolution and let the driver resample.
However,
>> I've been told by people I respect that it is better to so the
resampling in
>> Photoshop.  And when it's an image I really care about and the
original scan
>> is not at a final print resolution of 360 I resample with Genuine
Fractals.

>I will give the 360 a try.
>Are you using Genuine Fractals for rezzing down and well as rezzing up?

Usually not.  If I really care about the ultimate quality I've done it, but
I'm not sure one can see the difference.  Actually, even the company that
sells the software says the differences between GF and Photoshop resampling
mostly show up where the file is expanded substantially -- like doubled.
But for perfectionists, it feels better to use GF to increase file size if
it's an important image with lots of sharp edges.  After all, even if others
can't tell the difference, YOU will know you used the best.  ;-)

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Jerry, Paul

I'm sorry, slipped a cog there, it was the head alignment I meant to 
talk about.

The nozzle check is the same as I have seen on all my Epson's so far.

The head alighnment on the 1280 is different. It prints three pages 
and takes rather a long time.

The first page is the three rows of 15(?) black vertical lines. The 
second and third pages print out nine 1/2" squares. In color these 
showed CMY dither pattern and you were supposed to pick the smoothest 
one on each page to get the middle #5 position printing correctly. 
This looked like it would work very well for color but may not be 
workable for quads!

Any thoughts on this one?

Mine asks if I want to use the non-Epson cartridges when I first 
print each day.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Martin, got a question for you.
> 
> How do you get just the black or color nozzle check with the 1280? 
How do you get it to print 2 pages with 9 boxes? I know if you click 
on
> "Update" the printer knows you are using the CIS system from 
nomorecarts, as it tells you that!
> 
> Jerry

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

(snip)
> 
> If you could send me some test strips, I'll be able to compare them 
to
> Jerry's and see if we have a Mac v. PC problem or settings 
problem.   So,
> far the Mac and PC seem to print the test files with the same 
curves in the
> same manner.  Usually if there is a difference, it's in the paper 
type of
> other printer settings.

Paul,

I will get them off to you today.
> 
> >
(snip)
> 
> >I will give the 360 a try.
> >Are you using Genuine Fractals for rezzing down and well as 
rezzing up?
> 
> Usually not.  If I really care about the ultimate quality I've done 
it, but
> I'm not sure one can see the difference.  Actually, even the 
company that
> sells the software says the differences between GF and Photoshop 
resampling
> mostly show up where the file is expanded substantially -- like 
doubled.
> But for perfectionists, it feels better to use GF to increase file 
size if
> it's an important image with lots of sharp edges.  After all, even 
if others
> can't tell the difference, YOU will know you used the best.  ;-)

Know what you mean!

Thanks,
Martin

Martin, My   1280 printer only prints one page when selecting nozzle check, not 3. The color and black are printed on the same page, all 6
in a  one row line.

The head alignment also only prints one page, just like all the other printers. How do you get it to print 3 pages?

Jerry

Martin Wesley wrote:

> Jerry, Paul
>
> I'm sorry, slipped a cog there, it was the head alignment I meant to
> talk about.
>
> The nozzle check is the same as I have seen on all my Epson's so far.
>
> The head alighnment on the 1280 is different. It prints three pages
> and takes rather a long time.
>
> The first page is the three rows of 15(?) black vertical lines. The
> second and third pages print out nine 1/2" squares. In color these
> showed CMY dither pattern and you were supposed to pick the smoothest
> one on each page to get the middle #5 position printing correctly.
> This looked like it would work very well for color but may not be
> workable for quads!
>
> Any thoughts on this one?
>
> Mine asks if I want to use the non-Epson cartridges when I first
> print each day.
>
> Martin
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Martin, got a question for you.
> >
> > How do you get just the black or color nozzle check with the 1280?
> How do you get it to print 2 pages with 9 boxes? I know if you click
> on
> > "Update" the printer knows you are using the CIS system from
> nomorecarts, as it tells you that!
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry and Martin,

I've been playing with my 1280 for a few weeks now and mine prints on 
two pages. It prints the black alignment lines on one page and then 
starts the color alignment on a second page when I proceed to that 
stage of the alignment process. After the first column of ½-inch 
patches is printed, the dialog box instructions say to reinsert the 
second page before printing the second column of 9 colored ½-inch 
patches. It doesn't really matter how many pages you use other than 
the waste of paper, as far as I can tell.

As a newcomer to BW printing, I'm also curious about what I should 
expect to see when I get my MIS variable tone inks and get them 
installed.

Tom Keesling
Intelligent Design, Inc.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Martin, My   1280 printer only prints one page when selecting 
nozzle check, not 3. The color and black are printed on the same 
page, all 6
> in a  one row line.
> 
> The head alignment also only prints one page, just like all the 
other printers. How do you get it to print 3 pages?
> 
> Jerry

Martin, Tom,

Well, I'm about as embarrassed as you can get.  If I had just READ the instructions, I would have known to click on "Next" instead of
"Realignment",. which is all I've ever done on epson printers. No Wonder I didn't see the little boxes. My print heads were totally out of
alignment, and my 1280 printer has never been aligned before today, as I didn't know how to do it right. I hope that the 1160 printer isn't
similar. I'll check it out now. Anyone else make this mistake? Please say yes.

By the way, how does printing a bunch of boxes actually align the printheads? If a set of boxes have no grain, that means the heads are in
perfect alignment?  Weird!

Excuse me, I have to go crawl in a hole now.

Jerry

>

Just imagine how much better your recent work could have been had you 
figured this out sooner! Better late than never, eh? <G>

Tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Martin, Tom,
> 
> Well, I'm about as embarrassed as you can get.  If I had just READ 
the instructions, I would have known to click on "Next" instead of
> "Realignment",. which is all I've ever done on epson printers. No 
Wonder I didn't see the little boxes. My print heads were totally out 
of
> alignment, and my 1280 printer has never been aligned before today, 
as I didn't know how to do it right. I hope that the 1160 printer 
isn't
> similar. I'll check it out now. Anyone else make this mistake? 
Please say yes.
> 
> By the way, how does printing a bunch of boxes actually align the 
printheads? If a set of boxes have no grain, that means the heads are 
in

> perfect alignment?  Weird!
> 
> Excuse me, I have to go crawl in a hole now.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> >

Jerry,

What platform are you on? I'm running Windows 2000. Maybe there is a 
difference in the driver?

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Martin, My   1280 printer only prints one page when selecting 
nozzle check, not 3. The color and black are printed on the same 
page, all 6
> in a  one row line.
> 
> The head alignment also only prints one page, just like all the 
other printers. How do you get it to print 3 pages?
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Martin Wesley wrote:
> 
(snip)

Tom,

That is what I am getting except I wasn't smart enough to read 
closely and put the same sheet of paper back in. Really should just 
use the back to the black alignment test.

My concern is that with the quad inks the alignment may be useless. 
When I ran it with the color inks in place both column of squares 
were perfect at position #5. With the MIS inks in the top square was 
the most grainy and the bottom best. Not knowing what I was seeing I 
left the alignment alone and things appear to be printing fine.

Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Tom Keesling" 
<tom.keesling@a...> wrote:
> Jerry and Martin,
> 
> I've been playing with my 1280 for a few weeks now and mine prints 
on 
> two pages. It prints the black alignment lines on one page and then 
> starts the color alignment on a second page when I proceed to that 
> stage of the alignment process. After the first column of ½-inch 
> patches is printed, the dialog box instructions say to reinsert the 
> second page before printing the second column of 9 colored ½-inch 
> patches. It doesn't really matter how many pages you use other than 
> the waste of paper, as far as I can tell.
> 
> As a newcomer to BW printing, I'm also curious about what I should 
> expect to see when I get my MIS variable tone inks and get them 
> installed.
> 
> Tom Keesling
> Intelligent Design, Inc.
> 
> 
(snip)

Tom,

Well actually, that is interesting. The prints I have been printing aren't that much different from the ones I am now getting with the heads
properly aligned. Even though the heads weren't aligned correctly, there must be a lot of wiggle room. I have never seen banding on the
1280.  It sure does take a long time to align the heads on the 1280. Nearly an hour.

Jerry

That's interesting...and good to hear! If you have that much 
latitude, I wonder why, given your experience with the 1280, I and so 
many others have had such problems with the Piezo Color inks in the 
1280? I could never get a clear indication of which color patches to 
select when I ran the printhead alignment as long as the Piezo Color 
inks were being used.

I wonder if our two printers happen to be from opposite ends of the 
quality control spectrum, or if something else in its design explains 
this seeming paradox. Or is it possibly just a difference in the 
characteristics of the two inksets?

Not a technician by any means...

Tom

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> Well actually, that is interesting. The prints I have been printing 
aren't that much different from the ones I am now getting with the 
heads
> properly aligned. Even though the heads weren't aligned correctly, 
there must be a lot of wiggle room. I have never seen banding on the
> 1280.  It sure does take a long time to align the heads on the 
1280. Nearly an hour.
> 
> Jerry

Jerry, I forgot to comment on the length of time it takes to run the 
alignment procedure.

I'm accustomed to the procedure on my 3000 and didn't usually bother 
realigning for different papers/canvas. It didn't seem to be 
necesssary. Like you, I was amazed at how long it takes on the 1280. 
What concerns me is the apparent need to realign each time I change 
papers. This is going to be a pain and sure is likely to cut down on 
the number of papers I use--or even try.

Tom

In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...> 
wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> Well actually, that is interesting. The prints I have been printing 
aren't that much different from the ones I am now getting with the 
heads
> properly aligned. Even though the heads weren't aligned correctly, 
there must be a lot of wiggle room. I have never seen banding on the
> 1280.  It sure does take a long time to align the heads on the 
1280. Nearly an hour.
> 
> Jerry

Martin,

That prospect concerns me. I had been trying to get a good color 
alignment with the Piezo Color inks without success and currently 
have no idea whether my 1280 is fairly well aligned or off the chart. 
I wonder if I'll be able to tell whether I'm in the ballpark or not 
when I get the MIS inks installed? 

Tom

> Tom,
> 
> My concern is that with the quad inks the alignment may be useless.

Tom, I'm aligning the heads with the MIS hextone inks. The #9 patch is the least grainy. I don't understand how that aligns the heads! I now
have flawless prints with the creamiest smoothest tones possible, but the prints I had been making aren't much different if at all. This
would be the first time in 2 full sets of ink bottles that the printer has been aligned properly, it never was aligned before, as I just
kept clicking the realignment button, I always wondered why it took so many times to realign the heads. After about 8 tries, they were
aligned, but were they really? I got the 8's to align correctly , but never printed the boxes to choose the least grainy box.

Maybe they were aligned, maybe not.

Jerry




Tom Keesling wrote:

> That's interesting...and good to hear! If you have that much
> latitude, I wonder why, given your experience with the 1280, I and so
> many others have had such problems with the Piezo Color inks in the
> 1280? I could never get a clear indication of which color patches to
> select when I ran the printhead alignment as long as the Piezo Color
> inks were being used.
>
> I wonder if our two printers happen to be from opposite ends of the
> quality control spectrum, or if something else in its design explains
> this seeming paradox. Or is it possibly just a difference in the
> characteristics of the two inksets?
>
> Not a technician by any means...
>
> Tom
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > Well actually, that is interesting. The prints I have been printing
> aren't that much different from the ones I am now getting with the
> heads
> > properly aligned. Even though the heads weren't aligned correctly,
> there must be a lot of wiggle room. I have never seen banding on the
> > 1280.  It sure does take a long time to align the heads on the
> 1280. Nearly an hour.
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Yes. I think the Photomatte from Legion and Epson archival will be my main 2 papers, and the torchon for the quality stuff. Three's enough.
However, that eclipse REALLY looks nice....

Jerry




Tom Keesling wrote:

> Jerry, I forgot to comment on the length of time it takes to run the
> alignment procedure.
>
> I'm accustomed to the procedure on my 3000 and didn't usually bother
> realigning for different papers/canvas. It didn't seem to be
> necesssary. Like you, I was amazed at how long it takes on the 1280.
> What concerns me is the apparent need to realign each time I change
> papers. This is going to be a pain and sure is likely to cut down on
> the number of papers I use--or even try.
>
> Tom
>
> In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...>
> wrote:
> > Tom,
> >
> > Well actually, that is interesting. The prints I have been printing
> aren't that much different from the ones I am now getting with the
> heads
> > properly aligned. Even though the heads weren't aligned correctly,
> there must be a lot of wiggle room. I have never seen banding on the
> > 1280.  It sure does take a long time to align the heads on the
> 1280. Nearly an hour.
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry,

With the color carts in the 1280 both #5 squares were the least 
grainy which is the "in alignment" position, as I understand it. 
After installing the MIS inks the in the first set the #9 patch was 
the smoothest but I was afraid to change anything since I was not 
sure what was going on.

The more I think about it though the "more grainy/less grainy" should 
still hold true for the quads. So I will go ahead and do the 
alignment based on getting the smoothest square to be in the #5 
position and see how it is. There really isn't anything else to do 
but to give it a try. If something gets too out of whack I can always 
pop the color carts back in and realign with those.

I have to confess that I have never realigned every time I changed 
paper. I did it for a while with the 1200 but it never seemed to be 
much out of alignment, if at all, so I stopped doing it. Only if I 
got a banding problem do I realign and that really doesn't seem to do 
all that much good for me. It certainly isn't going to be feasible 
with the 1280 to check every time you want to try an image on a 
different paper. You won't to get much printing done!

So, Jerry, after going through the alignment routine did you get to 
where the #5 boxes are the least grainy? How many times did you have 
to go through the routine to get there?

Thanks,
Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Tom, I'm aligning the heads with the MIS hextone inks. The #9 patch 
is the least grainy. I don't understand how that aligns the heads! I 
now
> have flawless prints with the creamiest smoothest tones possible, 
but the prints I had been making aren't much different if at all. This
> would be the first time in 2 full sets of ink bottles that the 
printer has been aligned properly, it never was aligned before, as I 
just
> kept clicking the realignment button, I always wondered why it took 
so many times to realign the heads. After about 8 tries, they were
> aligned, but were they really? I got the 8's to align correctly , 
but never printed the boxes to choose the least grainy box.
> 
> Maybe they were aligned, maybe not.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
(snip)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:

> The more I think about it though the "more grainy/less grainy" 
should 
> still hold true for the quads. 

I hope that's the case. Please let us know what you find and I'll do 
the same when I get my virgin carts and MIS inks and get the CIS set 
up again for printing.
 
> I have to confess that I have never realigned every time I changed 
> paper. I did it for a while with the 1200 but it never seemed to be 
> much out of alignment, if at all, so I stopped doing it. Only if I 
> got a banding problem do I realign and that really doesn't seem to 
do 
> all that much good for me. It certainly isn't going to be feasible 
> with the 1280 to check every time you want to try an image on a 
> different paper. You won't to get much printing done!

I very glad to hear that I may not need to realign the 1280 every 
time I try a different paper. It wouldn't be very productive.

Thanks...

Tom

Martin, I guess i just didn't understand what is needed to properly align the heads of the 1280. I only did it twice, and both times, the
Number 9 patch looked the best. The directions seemed to say if you got a grainless set of squares, you were supposed to click "finish". So
I did. I didn't know that the #5 Position had to be the least grainy!

Anyhow, that's all I did. I suppose I could try it again today. Funny the second time was identical to the first though.

Jerry

If the third time still shows the #9 position to be the same, I give up. The prints look flawless as they print now. If it ain't broke,
don't fix it.

Jerry,

I could have this wrong and I will check once I am back in front of 
the printer with the manual but I believe that if the #5 square is 
the best you just click "Finished" or "OK". If the #5 is not the best 
you pick the one that is closest and click "Realign", it goes through 
the whole process again, then check again to see if the #5 is okay 
repeating this loop until #5 is the best.

I will give it a try tonight. I agree with you though on the "If it 
ain't broke..."

I also did one print on the Eclipse Satine 190 gsm using Paul's nc4 
curve. WOW! This hits so close to silver fiber it gives me goose 
bumps! I think the curve works even better on the Satine than the 
EAM. Possibly the Satine 190 gsm for work prints (its double sided so 
the price is within range of the LPM) and then the Satine 300 or 
Velvet 350 for the final.

One word of caution, I may be seeing some faint mottling in smooth 
areas. I know I saw heavy mottling on a sample Satine print printed 
with Piezo. So there may be some quality issues with Brightcube's 
coating. I hope not.

Also a note for Piezo ink users. This is not a good ink/paper match 
and gives a very weak image.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Martin, I guess i just didn't understand what is needed to properly 
align the heads of the 1280. I only did it twice, and both times, the
> Number 9 patch looked the best. The directions seemed to say if you 
got a grainless set of squares, you were supposed to click "finish". 
So
> I did. I didn't know that the #5 Position had to be the least 
grainy!
> 
> Anyhow, that's all I did. I suppose I could try it again today. 
Funny the second time was identical to the first though.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> If the third time still shows the #9 position to be the same, I 
give up. The prints look flawless as they print now. If it ain't 
broke,
> don't fix it.

Martin, I've only printed a couple of prints on the eclipse so far, and loved it. Didn't see any mottling. Neutral 4 curve is a sweetheart.
Try moving the Magenta about 20 points to the right. It is to drool over!

I will have some time later, and I'll run the alignment again a few times. I wonder how this "aligns the heads"?

The eclipse may replace the torchon, as It is beautiful, thick, and has no heavy texture like the torchon.

We'll see.

Martin Wesley wrote:

> Jerry,

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Martin, I've only printed a couple of prints on the eclipse so far, 
and loved it. Didn't see any mottling. Neutral 4 curve is a 
sweetheart.
> Try moving the Magenta about 20 points to the right. It is to drool 
over!

Jerry,

Will do. Have you tried the Velvet 350 gsm yet?


> I will have some time later, and I'll run the alignment again a few 
times. I wonder how this "aligns the heads"?


My guess is that with color it prints out CMY dots and if everything 
is aligned, the dots are all exactly on top of each other giving a 
smooth neutral gray. In color it looks like it would be much easier 
to see which pattern is correctly aligned. I find the vertical lines 
really tough to judge as usually most of the center ones look aligned 
to me.

> 
> The eclipse may replace the Torchon, as It is beautiful, thick, and 
has no heavy texture like the Torchon.

I agree although I really like the Torchon too. I find that the big 
warm shift with Piezo ink that happens over the first couple of weeks 
on the Torchon to be hard to deal with. I guess I should give it a 
try with the MIS inks and see what I get. I would think that one of 
the warmer curves would be the way to go. More stuff to try!

Martin

Haven't tried the 350 gsm. Would it be that much thicker than the 300? That's thick enough for me!

Jerry

Jerry,

The Velvet has a softer surface and maybe a different coating. After 
giving it at try with Paul's nc5 curve I think the Satine is a better 
match so go with the 300 gsm. The Velvet would probably work with its 
own curve but it is not different enough to make that worthwhile.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Haven't tried the 350 gsm. Would it be that much thicker than the 
300? That's thick enough for me!
> 
> Jerry

The satine isn't an r.c. type look, is it? I think I have the velvet. I best ask Steadman.

JErry

Martin Wesley wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> The Velvet has a softer surface and maybe a different coating. After
> giving it at try with Paul's nc5 curve I think the Satine is a better
> match so go with the 300 gsm. The Velvet would probably work with its
> own curve but it is not different enough to make that worthwhile.
>
> Martin
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Haven't tried the 350 gsm. Would it be that much thicker than the
> 300? That's thick enough for me!
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry,

If you have the 300 gsm it is the Satine which not an RC paper but a 
nice art paper. If you like this, the same paper is available in 190 
gsm (feels heavier) that is also double sided. In 8 1/2 X 11 the 
Eclipse Satine 190 gsm is $16.50 for 25 sheets and the 300 gsm is 
$21.50 for 25 sheets. Or $0.66 and $0.86 a sheet. Not as cheap as EAM 
but a very good price considering the quality of the paper. you can 
find their stuff at:

http://www.photoinkjet.com/

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> The satine isn't an r.c. type look, is it? I think I have the 
velvet. I best ask Steadman.
> 
> JErry
> 
> Martin Wesley wrote:
> 
> > Jerry,
> >
> > The Velvet has a softer surface and maybe a different coating. 
After
> > giving it at try with Paul's nc5 curve I think the Satine is a 
better
> > match so go with the 300 gsm. The Velvet would probably work with 
its
> > own curve but it is not different enough to make that worthwhile.
> >
> > Martin
> >
(snip)

Martin, I'm not certain if it is the 300 gsm or 350. But it is a magnificent paper. I just love it. I'll ask steadman which it was, as I'm
not sure.  But boy is it nice.

Jerry

Is the 190 gsm weight thicker than Epson Archival?


Where do you get your Eclipse?



Martin Wesley wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> If you have the 300 gsm it is the Satine which not an RC paper but a
> nice art paper. If you like this, the same paper is available in 190
> gsm (feels heavier) that is also double sided. In 8 1/2 X 11 the
> Eclipse Satine 190 gsm is $16.50 for 25 sheets and the 300 gsm is
> $21.50 for 25 sheets. Or $0.66 and $0.86 a sheet. Not as cheap as EAM
> but a very good price considering the quality of the paper. you can
> find their stuff at:
>
> http://www.photoinkjet.com/
>
> Martin
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > The satine isn't an r.c. type look, is it? I think I have the
> velvet. I best ask Steadman.
> >
> > JErry
> >
> > Martin Wesley wrote:
> >
> > > Jerry,
> > >
> > > The Velvet has a softer surface and maybe a different coating.
> After
> > > giving it at try with Paul's nc5 curve I think the Satine is a
> better
> > > match so go with the 300 gsm. The Velvet would probably work with
> its
> > > own curve but it is not different enough to make that worthwhile.
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> (snip)
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry,

The Eclipse is made by Brightcube. You can get it from their on-line 
store at:

http://www.photoinkjet.com/

The Brightcube papers are under:

http://www.photoinkjet.com/products/media/brightcube.html

The Satine comes in 190, 300, 600 and 700 gsm. 

The 190 gsm Satine is thicker than EAM but not as stiff. The Satine 
is 100% cotton fiber so it is more flexible. The overall impression 
is that it is about 50% more substantial than EAM.


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Martin, I'm not certain if it is the 300 gsm or 350. But it is a 
magnificent paper. I just love it. I'll ask steadman which it was, as 
I'm
> not sure.  But boy is it nice.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Is the 190 gsm weight thicker than Epson Archival?
> 
> 
> Where do you get your Eclipse?
> 
(snip)

Hi Jerry,

What is the texture like on the Eclipse that you are using? Is that 
the satine or the velvet? What weight were you using? I have been 
away for a few days and am trying to get caught up. Thank you.

Tim












--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Martin, I've only printed a couple of prints on the eclipse so far, 
and loved it. Didn't see any mottling. Neutral 4 curve is a 
sweetheart.
> Try moving the Magenta about 20 points to the right. It is to drool 
over!
> 
> I will have some time later, and I'll run the alignment again a few 
times. I wonder how this "aligns the heads"?
> 
> The eclipse may replace the torchon, as It is beautiful, thick, and 
has no heavy texture like the torchon.

> 
> We'll see.
> 
> Martin Wesley wrote:
> 
> > Jerry,

It's the Satine, 300 gsms.  It is very white, even whiter than torchon. even whiter than epson archival matte. It is very thick, luxurious,
smooth, and has outstanding blacks. Prints as nice as any paper I've ever used, and not to expensive, either. You will love it.

Jerry


tyork@... wrote:

> Hi Jerry,
>
> What is the texture like on the Eclipse that you are using? Is that
> the satine or the velvet? What weight were you using? I have been
> away for a few days and am trying to get caught up. Thank you.
>
> Tim
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Martin, I've only printed a couple of prints on the eclipse so far,
> and loved it. Didn't see any mottling. Neutral 4 curve is a
> sweetheart.
> > Try moving the Magenta about 20 points to the right. It is to drool
> over!
> >
> > I will have some time later, and I'll run the alignment again a few
> times. I wonder how this "aligns the heads"?
> >
> > The eclipse may replace the torchon, as It is beautiful, thick, and
> has no heavy texture like the torchon.
> >
> > We'll see.
> >
> > Martin Wesley wrote:
> >
> > > Jerry,
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry,

I like some texture, just not as much as Torchon. Does the Satine 
have any texture or is it perfectly smooth?

tim













--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> It's the Satine, 300 gsms.  It is very white, even whiter than 
torchon. even whiter than epson archival matte. It is very thick, 
luxurious,
> smooth, and has outstanding blacks. Prints as nice as any paper 
I've ever used, and not to expensive, either. You will love it.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> tyork@a... wrote:
> 
> > Hi Jerry,
> >
> > What is the texture like on the Eclipse that you are using? Is 
that
> > the satine or the velvet? What weight were you using? I have been
> > away for a few days and am trying to get caught up. Thank you.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > Martin, I've only printed a couple of prints on the eclipse so 
far,
> > and loved it. Didn't see any mottling. Neutral 4 curve is a
> > sweetheart.
> > > Try moving the Magenta about 20 points to the right. It is to 
drool
> > over!
> > >
> > > I will have some time later, and I'll run the alignment again a 
few
> > times. I wonder how this "aligns the heads"?
> > >
> > > The eclipse may replace the torchon, as It is beautiful, thick, 
and
> > has no heavy texture like the torchon.
> > >
> > > We'll see.
> > >
> > > Martin Wesley wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jerry,
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Martin,

I'm looking for a textured paper like Torchon but not quite as 
textured. The Eclipse velvet in the heavier weight, does it have a 
texture to it or is it smooth? With the duotones I am using I am not 
as concerned about the output problems quad users are. Thank you.

Tim


www.portraitsofnature.net














--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Jerry,
> 
> If you have the 300 gsm it is the Satine which not an RC paper but 
a 
> nice art paper. If you like this, the same paper is available in 
190 
> gsm (feels heavier) that is also double sided. In 8 1/2 X 11 the 
> Eclipse Satine 190 gsm is $16.50 for 25 sheets and the 300 gsm is 
> $21.50 for 25 sheets. Or $0.66 and $0.86 a sheet. Not as cheap as 
EAM 
> but a very good price considering the quality of the paper. you can 
> find their stuff at:
> 
> http://www.photoinkjet.com/
> 
> Martin
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > The satine isn't an r.c. type look, is it? I think I have the 
> velvet. I best ask Steadman.
> > 
> > JErry
> > 
> > Martin Wesley wrote:
> > 
> > > Jerry,
> > >
> > > The Velvet has a softer surface and maybe a different coating. 
> After
> > > giving it at try with Paul's nc5 curve I think the Satine is a 
> better
> > > match so go with the 300 gsm. The Velvet would probably work 
with 
> its
> > > own curve but it is not different enough to make that 
worthwhile.

> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> (snip)

Will 300gsms load well in the 1280?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Initial Impressions and Questions


> It's the Satine, 300 gsms.  It is very white, even whiter than torchon.
even whiter than epson archival matte. It is very thick, luxurious,
> smooth, and has outstanding blacks. Prints as nice as any paper I've ever
used, and not to expensive, either. You will love it.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> tyork@... wrote:
>
> > Hi Jerry,
> >
> > What is the texture like on the Eclipse that you are using? Is that
> > the satine or the velvet? What weight were you using? I have been
> > away for a few days and am trying to get caught up. Thank you.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > Martin, I've only printed a couple of prints on the eclipse so far,
> > and loved it. Didn't see any mottling. Neutral 4 curve is a
> > sweetheart.
> > > Try moving the Magenta about 20 points to the right. It is to drool
> > over!
> > >
> > > I will have some time later, and I'll run the alignment again a few
> > times. I wonder how this "aligns the heads"?
> > >
> > > The eclipse may replace the torchon, as It is beautiful, thick, and
> > has no heavy texture like the torchon.
> > >
> > > We'll see.
> > >
> > > Martin Wesley wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jerry,
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Tim, Jerry,

A word of warning on the Eclipse Satine. For me it did not print well 
with either the Piezo inks or the Epson inks. The results were a very 
weak, veiled print.

As beautiful as it is with the MIS VM, other ink sets may require 
some major curve tweaking to get it to work. So proceed with caution.

Martin


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> It's the Satine, 300 gsms.  It is very white, even whiter than 
torchon. even whiter than epson archival matte. It is very thick, 
luxurious,
> smooth, and has outstanding blacks. Prints as nice as any paper 
I've ever used, and not to expensive, either. You will love it.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> tyork@a... wrote:
> 
> > Hi Jerry,
> >
> > What is the texture like on the Eclipse that you are using? Is 
that
> > the satine or the velvet? What weight were you using? I have been
> > away for a few days and am trying to get caught up. Thank you.
> >
> > Tim
> >
(snip)

Tim,

The Satine has some texture. More than EAM, more than Museo, less 
than William Turner, less than Somerset Enhanced, much less than 
Torchon. A compromise between smooth and texture. The Velvet is 
smoother but it is a soft, well, velvet smooth.

I had trouble printing color on the Satine with Epson inks. I had to 
lower the brightness of the image by 60-70% and up the contrast about 
10% to get reasonable ink density. So just get some samples.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Martin,
> 
> I'm looking for a textured paper like Torchon but not quite as 
> textured. The Eclipse velvet in the heavier weight, does it have a 
> texture to it or is it smooth? With the duotones I am using I am 
not 
> as concerned about the output problems quad users are. Thank you.
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> www.portraitsofnature.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
> <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> > Jerry,
> > 
> > If you have the 300 gsm it is the Satine which not an RC paper 
but 
> a 
> > nice art paper. If you like this, the same paper is available in 
> 190 
> > gsm (feels heavier) that is also double sided. In 8 1/2 X 11 the 
> > Eclipse Satine 190 gsm is $16.50 for 25 sheets and the 300 gsm is 
> > $21.50 for 25 sheets. Or $0.66 and $0.86 a sheet. Not as cheap as 
> EAM 
> > but a very good price considering the quality of the paper. you 
can 
> > find their stuff at:
> > 
> > http://www.photoinkjet.com/
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
> > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > The satine isn't an r.c. type look, is it? I think I have the 
> > velvet. I best ask Steadman.
> > > 
> > > JErry
> > > 
> > > Martin Wesley wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Jerry,
> > > >
> > > > The Velvet has a softer surface and maybe a different 
coating. 
> > After
> > > > giving it at try with Paul's nc5 curve I think the Satine is 
a 

> > better
> > > > match so go with the 300 gsm. The Velvet would probably work 
> with 
> > its
> > > > own curve but it is not different enough to make that 
> worthwhile.
> > > >
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > (snip)

Tim it has some texture sort of like the Epson Watercolor paper, just a bit, not too much, not to little,  Prints VERY sharp prints.

jerry





tyork@... wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> I like some texture, just not as much as Torchon. Does the Satine
> have any texture or is it perfectly smooth?
>
> tim
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > It's the Satine, 300 gsms.  It is very white, even whiter than
> torchon. even whiter than epson archival matte. It is very thick,
> luxurious,
> > smooth, and has outstanding blacks. Prints as nice as any paper
> I've ever used, and not to expensive, either. You will love it.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > tyork@a... wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Jerry,
> > >
> > > What is the texture like on the Eclipse that you are using? Is
> that
> > > the satine or the velvet? What weight were you using? I have been
> > > away for a few days and am trying to get caught up. Thank you.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > Martin, I've only printed a couple of prints on the eclipse so
> far,
> > > and loved it. Didn't see any mottling. Neutral 4 curve is a
> > > sweetheart.
> > > > Try moving the Magenta about 20 points to the right. It is to
> drool
> > > over!
> > > >
> > > > I will have some time later, and I'll run the alignment again a
> few
> > > times. I wonder how this "aligns the heads"?
> > > >
> > > > The eclipse may replace the torchon, as It is beautiful, thick,
> and
> > > has no heavy texture like the torchon.
> > > >
> > > > We'll see.
> > > >
> > > > Martin Wesley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Jerry,
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page
> is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Tim,
> 
> The Satine has some texture. More than EAM, more than 
Museo, less 
> than William Turner, less than Somerset Enhanced, much 
less than 
> Torchon. A compromise between smooth and texture. The 
Velvet is ............................................


Dear Boss,
why are you talking about paper under an ink header ???
What about two automatic reminders each day  to 
CHANGE HEADERS IF CONTENT CHANGES ???
B.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., " Ruhrfoto/Bernd L." <ruhrfoto@y...> 
wrote:

> Dear Boss,
> why are you talking about paper under an ink header ???
> What about two automatic reminders each day  to 
> CHANGE HEADERS IF CONTENT CHANGES ???
> B.

Go ahead, Bernd, hit him over the head. As co-moderator, I give you 
permission!

;-----) >
Antonis

Andre,

I have tried both the 300 Satine and the 350 Velvet and did not have 
any feedding problems. With the heavier sheets I hand feed them to 
make sure everything is okay before I click "Print."

Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Andre Vallejo" <avs@p...> 
wrote:
> Will 300gsms load well in the 1280?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@r...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS VM Initial Impressions and 
Questions
> 
> 
> > It's the Satine, 300 gsms.  It is very white, even whiter than 
torchon.
(snip)

Bernd,

I very, very clearly specified in earlier posts to not follow my 
example but to do as I say and change the header of the thread when 
the thread changes topic. I also clearly stated that I would continue 
to make mistakes like this. So in order not to have made an 
inaccurate statement I found it necessary to.....

Actually it was a test to see if you were paying attention...

Why do I get the feeling you are not buying this.

Afraid I missed that one. The thread branched and I did change it on 
one and not the other.

Mea culpa. Many abject apologies. Will try to do better.

The Boss

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., " Ruhrfoto/Bernd L." 
<ruhrfoto@y...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Dear Boss,
> > why are you talking about paper under an ink header ???
> > What about two automatic reminders each day  to 
> > CHANGE HEADERS IF CONTENT CHANGES ???
> > B.
> 
> Go ahead, Bernd, hit him over the head. As co-moderator, I give you 
> permission!
> 
> ;-----) >
> Antonis

Et tu Brutus?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Et tu Brutus?


      <BG>


Of course someone else here caught me doing the same thing, so it's nice to 
know the thread police is out in full force. I tip my moderator hat to them.


Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
<mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Bernd,

> Mea culpa. Many abject apologies. Will try to do better.
> 
> The Boss


Forgiven (last time!)
The Thread Police